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Israel's ambassador to Berlin, Ron Prosor, says Israel faces "demonization" and laments a lack of empathy for Israelis under attack, adding that wars in Iran and Lebanon could beat terror and reshape the Middle East.
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00:00I'm here at the Israeli Embassy in Berlin with Ambassador Ron Prozor. Thanks so much for speaking
00:07to DW. Ambassador, we're speaking on Israel's day of remembrance for fallen soldiers
00:15and also the eve of Israel's National Day, which commemorates the Declaration of Independence in
00:211948. What do these dates mean for Israelis in 2026? It's a very special day today,
00:29and just think you entered the Israeli Embassy here in Berlin and you saw the amount of security
00:36around us. And it basically, you know, really emphasizes the fact of how Israeli embassies
00:46and how Israeli diplomats have to work abroad. And today in Remembrance Day, this is a special day
00:55in Israel. As we speak, families are in graveyards. And unfortunately, you know, that Israel,
01:06since the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948, is in constant war. But this is an emotional
01:12day. It's a very emotional day because we remember those who allow us all to basically enjoy freedom
01:21and democracy. We do not forget. And the interesting thing is the transition from Remembrance Day to
01:29Independence Day at the end of the day. A lot of discussions in Israel about that. The end of the
01:36day is, yes, we will celebrate because this is our responsibility for those who have given their lives
01:43for us to be able to do that. So a very emotional day in Israel today.
01:47Sadly, we are speaking at a time of war in the Middle East. The military operation against Iran
01:54has brought massive damage and loss of life, but it hasn't brought an end to the Iranian regime or to
02:00their nuclear program. Prime Minister Netanyahu says it's not over yet. As we speak, there's a very
02:06uncertain peace process between the Iranians and the United States. What has this war done to improve life
02:13for Israelis, do you think? I think, first of all, it's not just Israel. If you think of the Mullahs
02:19and
02:19the Ayatollahs in Iran, they're a threat to the region itself. We saw that with the Gulf states today.
02:25And also for Europe. Now, how do I make the connection? Because for years, you know, Europe or the
02:32world has been negotiating with the Iranians. And not only did it not stop the Iran nuclear program,
02:41but the ballistic missiles that produced in Iran, we could see them move over to Moscow, to Russia,
02:50and from Moscow to Kyiv, and basically in Europe's backyard. Terror all around the world. And the
02:56Mullahs and the Ayatollahs, and I want the people that watch us basically stating, you know, as part of
03:04the policy to annihilate the state of Israel, to eradicate the state of Israel. And we have learned,
03:12I think, we should all learn, that when you have a combination of intentions by the Mullahs and
03:18the Ayatollahs and capabilities, this is deadly. And the ideology is deadly. We saw that ideology with
03:28Hamas. We saw that ideology with Hezbollah and Iran. And I think what the United States and Israel is
03:35doing today is making sure that Europe and the world is a better and a safer place. And you see
03:43that they are holding, now it's clear to the world, they're basically holding the world economy,
03:49the German economy, as hostage, with oil prices, with gas prices. At the end of the day,
03:58the Mullahs and the Ayatollahs, the way they treat their own population, women, children,
04:07this regime has to basically go home for the Iranian people to take their, their future in their own
04:17hands. But would you say that the wars in Gaza, in Iran, in Lebanon, have made Israelis safer?
04:26So let's talk, not just in Israelis, the genocide that Hamas did on the 7th of October against
04:35Israelis. If we zoom out for a second, it's two and a half years. How does the region look? For
04:42the
04:42first time in Lebanon, a government without Hezbollah. Bashar Assad in Syria is drinking vodka in Moscow.
04:51The Mullahs and the Ayatollahs in Iran are weakened. Nasrallah and Hezbollah are weakened. And Hamas is
04:59weakened. We have an opportunity to really change the region now. And I think we have learned that we
05:08cannot just trivialize this ideology. We have to stand up together against this ideology, because
05:16this ideology has already entered parts of Europe. You see it with sleeping cells, both in Germany and
05:24in Europe, and Iran and terror all around the region. This Mullah and Ayatollah regime
05:34is really a burden for everyone who wants peace in the region.
05:40Let me ask you about German-Israeli relations. The top-level cabinet talks between the two
05:45governments haven't happened since 2018. There are clear differences over the idea of a two-state
05:52solution, as there were over Gaza. Is disagreement growing between Germany and Israel?
05:59There are many disagreements between Israel and Germany. So we can focus on that. But we can also
06:07focus on the half-full part of the glass. And in Europe itself, when you look at this,
06:15just after the 7th of October, unprecedented the amount of visits by German politicians and Germans,
06:22the president, the foreign minister, the chancellor, the chairman of the foreign committee,
06:29you know, the president of the Bundestag. Uncomparable with other European countries, but especially
06:38I want to emphasize something on the two-state solution. Okay? I see a lot of politicians basically
06:46repeating like a parrot. Two-state solution. Two states for two people. Very simple. Two states for two
06:57people, meaning the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. This is something that one should
07:06basically talk about. Try and get a Palestinian and an Arab to say this simple sentence, two states for two
07:13people. What we have learned, and I headed Israel's foreign service from 2003 to 2007, when we decided to
07:23unilaterally withdraw out of Gaza. I believed in it. I think many Israelis believed in it. After the 7th of
07:31October, after this genocide that was done, and we see, you know, everything that is going on, both now in
07:40Gaza and also in the West Bank, we have to ask the Palestinians what they want in the future. Do
07:48they
07:48really want peace? There's a lot of questions about that. We will do everything. On the one hand, reach out
07:56to everyone who really wants peace with us. On the other hand, hold the shield of David very, very close
08:02to our chest, because only a strong Israel, a very strong Israel, can achieve peace in this region.
08:09Well, you talk about reaching out for peace, but the German government has repeatedly expressed
08:13concerns about actions by Israel in the occupied West Bank, what Israel calls Judea and Samaria.
08:19Recently, this prompted a strong reaction from Israel's finance minister, Bezal El Smotrich.
08:26Chancellor Merz wrote on his official ex-account, there must be no de facto annexation of the West Bank.
08:32And Smotrich posted in response, Mr. Chancellor, the days when Germans dictated to Jews where they were
08:38permitted or forbidden to live are over. What's your assessment of that exchange?
08:44I think you saw my reaction to that, which I will not repeat. But I want to say, first of
08:52all, I...
08:54Well, you said on Israeli TV that these remarks undermine the remembrance of the Holocaust.
08:59I said that, and I also said that Friedrich Merz is a true friend of the state of Israel.
09:07But what is important here is the day that it was said, okay? And that's why I think the minister
09:16came out, because it was said on Holocaust Memorial Day. And this is, I don't think there's a translation
09:24in English. This is FingerspitzengefĂĽhl. You can say the same thing a day after. We don't have to agree.
09:32Sensitive.
09:33Sensitivity.
09:34So in the sense, what I think many Israelis feel, especially on a day like this,
09:42there's a lack of empathy towards Israel, a lack of empathy to Israelis sitting in the Seder night
09:53in shelters in Israel. Not a word of basically trying to hug us and say, we are aware that the
10:03state of Israel and the Jewish people are being subjected to missiles every day from Iran from the
10:12east and from Hezbollah in the north, every day. And to remind you, with Hezbollah, Hezbollah started
10:23shooting at Israel, although we asked them not to do that. The Lebanese government asked them not to do
10:30that. And still, we see statements like, we call both sides to show restraint, or de-escalation.
10:40Wonderful words, and I'm a diplomat. But they basically are empty words in trying to solve this.
10:48And I want, with one word, to talk about Hezbollah, because there's a lot of discussions about, please.
10:55But Ambassador, these comments by Basil Al Smotrich, they were about the attitude to settler,
11:02the settler policy, and the actions by Israel in the occupied West Bank. I mean,
11:08do you think that that's a deliberate provocation? Do you think that Germany
11:12needs to sort of speak up more for Israel? Because you say Friedrich Metz is a friend of Israel.
11:18Israel, where do you think the correct sort of rhetorical tone should lie?
11:24Okay, so I very clearly went out and made my point very clear on this, okay?
11:33But I also want to emphasize, okay, that there can be differences. But especially, okay,
11:42on Holocaust Memorial Day, that there should be more sensitivities, you know, when one begins to
11:52criticize Israel. Israel is used to criticism. We have criticism within. I'm very proud of Israel's
11:59democratic system. But again, where do I want Germany? Stronger. I want Germany like other parts of
12:09Europe. Standing with Israel international force like the UN, the European Union, where there is a
12:16constant demonization and delegitimization against the state of Israel and the Jewish people. And when
12:23I say that, today, it's very clear. When I say constant demonization and delegitimization, you see
12:32it on the streets of Germany today, with anti-Semitism on the rise, right-wing anti-Semitism, Muslim anti-Semitism,
12:42and left anti-Semitism. I think that the most dangerous is left anti-Semitism. I'll try and explain.
12:51Right anti-Semitism, they say, and I quote them, we're against Jews, blacks, homosexuals. Have any other
12:58questions you want to ask me? I'll tell you. I'm proud of this. The German system, politically and
13:06judicially, knows how to deal with right-wing anti-Semitism. Muslim anti-Semitism, clearly there,
13:17okay, but when they demonstrate on the streets of Germany and say that they want to build a new
13:24caliphate here. And Sharia laws, the Germans are looking at this, astounded, amazed. By the way,
13:32you should take it seriously. Left anti-Semitism, Jews and Israelis are completely alone, because there's
13:40always the legitimate question, where does the line pass between freedom of speech and freedom
13:47for incitement? And on the cultural, academic side, they've crossed the red line. And it's basically,
13:56Jews are afraid to go on the U-ban and the S-ban, the underground here, at universities, carrying,
14:02you know, Jewish, you know, kippah. And the year is 2026. You have Jews that are afraid,
14:12German citizens of Jewish faith are afraid to say that they're Jews in Germany. That has to change.
14:21Yeah. There's no doubt that anti-Semitism is a huge problem. It's an increasing problem. We've
14:26seen record numbers of anti-Semitic attacks in Germany, in Europe, around the world, in fact.
14:34And they've spiked since the October the 7th attacks, but also, I think, again, since the
14:39war in Iran has been going on. Now, a recent report from Tel Aviv University said that Israeli politicians
14:48and media have, particularly in recent months, expanded the scope of what qualifies as anti-Semitism.
14:57And by doing so, they discredit a crucial fight by politicizing it. Do you see that problem?
15:03No, I see the exact opposite problem. First of all, there's a definition for anti-Semitism. It's called
15:11the IRA definition, which was accepted, has to be implemented. I saw that, you know,
15:17this Israeli student Lahav, Lahav Shapira, went to court because someone bashed him physically in
15:30such a manner that he had to be hospitalized for, I think, three weeks, okay? And the judge said that
15:38he
15:38was basically hit and injured, but he didn't see that as anti-Semitism. So, how should I understand it?
15:49Someone who really beats a Jew because he's a Jew and doesn't shout, Mein Kampf is basically
15:57not an anti-Semite. We need to define those things. And I'll give you another example. With Lahav Shani,
16:05the conductor of the Munich Philharmonic Orchestra, okay? Belgium wanted to boycott the
16:16symphonic orchestra because he's a Jew. This is clear. When you have slogans now in Germany saying
16:23don't buy from Israel, this is the continuation of don't buy from Jews in the second world. Clear things.
16:31So, I would say that they're using the so-called legitimate criticism, you know, of Israel to
16:40basically cross the line to something which is clear anti-Semitic.
16:45Finally, let me bring it back to Israel itself. In January this year, Israel's former attorney general
16:52and the president of your Supreme Court, Aaron Barak, declared that Israel is no longer a liberal
16:58democracy. And he said human rights, separation of powers, the rule of law and the independence of
17:03the judiciary are all being weakened in Israel. Is the Israeli state in good health in your view?
17:11Well, first of all, Aaron Barak is one of, he was the former Supreme Court, head of our Supreme Court.
17:19But it just shows you what, you know, our fierce democratic structures. So, I don't think you have
17:29any other state in the world where people, you know, fight with each other, shout, and basically,
17:40you know, put questions to everything. I'm very proud. We are now, you know, celebrating 78 years for
17:49the state of Israel. I think we are very innovative because we ask questions all the time and it's
17:56legitimate to challenge the system and it's legitimate to basically ask all the questions that at the end of
18:04the day, make us a better society. I'm absolutely convinced that we have a strong and vibrant democracy
18:13and yes, we'll keep on arguing, but looking at a better future for us all. And when I see the
18:24young
18:25generation in Israel, especially on a day like this, wow, they're resilient, they're stronger than my
18:31generation. And when the war started, you know, usually people flee out of the country, they all
18:38returned back, not because of politicians, but because of their friends and they understood
18:43this is the only nation state that the Jews have and we have to fight every day in order to
18:50protect it.
18:51Is it still a liberal democracy? Absolutely. Ambassador, thank you so much for speaking to DW. Thank you.
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