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00:00You're suing your ex-boyfriend here.
00:02You loaned him money.
00:04It was never a gift.
00:05I didn't ask for the money, Your Honor.
00:06That is a lie.
00:07She got physical with you.
00:09Once I said, I don't want to deal with you anymore,
00:11that's when the court came.
00:12The breakup made you second guess
00:14what you were doing all along.
00:16Possibly.
00:17You're lucky that he didn't press charges.
00:19I just lost my mom.
00:21But that doesn't justify a physical assault.
00:23Now, on Tribunal Justice.
00:47Today's case was filed in Newark, New Jersey.
00:51Your Honor, this is case number 3065,
00:54Williams v. McDonald.
00:55Both parties have been sworn in.
00:57You may be seated.
00:58Thank you, Cassandra.
00:59You're welcome.
00:59All right, Ms. Williams.
01:01Yes.
01:01You're suing your ex-boyfriend here, Mr. McDonald.
01:04Yes, that's correct.
01:05According to your complaint,
01:06you loaned him money to get his car out of impound
01:09after it was repossessed for his failure to repay a loan.
01:13Yes.
01:13You're here seeking $1,525 that you loaned him
01:18and that he didn't pay you back.
01:19That's correct.
01:20And Mr. McDonald, according to your answer, sir,
01:23you claim that the money that the plaintiff gave you
01:25was a gift and that she only filed suit
01:28after you broke up with her.
01:29Yes, Your Honor.
01:30Got it.
01:31Okay, Ms. Williams, how long had you and the defendant
01:33been dating before you loaned him this $1,525?
01:37We was dating for a good, like, six months.
01:40When I first met Roger, he was really sweet,
01:43massaging my feet when I got off of work.
01:46A lot of love bombing, and at the time,
01:50he was an Uber driver, so when he did call me
01:54and we talked, it was never a gift.
01:57I don't know what he's talking about.
01:58As you can see in my text messages,
02:01he definitely told me that he was going to pay me back.
02:04So, Ms. Williams, according to your complaint,
02:06you say in July of 2024, your mom died.
02:09Yes, that's correct.
02:10And that in August, you had to pay for her funeral.
02:14Yes.
02:14And around that time in August is when the defendant
02:17told you that his car was repossessed.
02:20Yes.
02:20You told him, hey, don't ask me to borrow money,
02:23ask one of your friends.
02:24No, I did not say that.
02:26What I said was, can you get money from your friends,
02:29because $2,000 is a lot.
02:31And what did he say?
02:31I can help because you're an Uber driver.
02:33Me dating someone, if they tell you, you know,
02:36my car got repossessed and that's the way
02:38they get their money, of course you're going to try
02:40to help them, because I'm dating you.
02:42All right, well, the point is that he originally
02:44asked for $2,000.
02:45Yeah.
02:46Then you told him it was a lot of money,
02:48ask your friends.
02:49Yeah, can you reach out to your friends
02:51and get something?
02:51Fine.
02:52And then did he come back after you asked him
02:54to speak to his friends with a different amount?
02:56Yes, yes.
02:56And that amount was the $15.25?
02:58$15.25, that's correct.
02:59And did he tell you what exactly he needed that $15.25 for?
03:02Yes.
03:02How many missed payments did he have?
03:04Well, he really didn't want to tell me that.
03:06I was asking him, and it seemed like it was an issue.
03:09I said, how much is your car note?
03:11Like, how much did you miss?
03:12And he was like, why do that matter?
03:14I just need my car.
03:15Mr. McDonald, you remember asking first for $2,000?
03:18I didn't ask for the money, Your Honor.
03:20I noticed that the car wasn't outside
03:22after I just left from Ms. Williams earlier that day.
03:24So I already knew what it was,
03:26because I knew I had missed the two payments.
03:28It was two payments plus the accrued interest.
03:30So when I let her know that the car wasn't outside,
03:32her first initial reaction was...
03:33Well, hold on.
03:34You just said it wasn't outside.
03:35Is that all you said?
03:36Or did you say, listen, it's not outside.
03:37I'm pretty sure that it got repossessed
03:39because I didn't pay two payments.
03:40Is that what you said?
03:41Yep, pretty much.
03:42Basically sum it up in a nutshell.
03:43All right, fine.
03:44So she knew what happened to the vehicle.
03:45And right there in that instance, she said,
03:47okay, well, we need to get that car out
03:49because this is the month of August,
03:50right before my birthday.
03:51That is a lie.
03:52And then she said, we need to get your car out
03:53because we were taking a trip down to Baltimore,
03:55which she had planned for my birthday,
03:57but she didn't want to drive her car.
03:59So, of course, we need my car out of the impound
04:01if we're going to use my car to drive down to Maryland.
04:03So she insisted on giving me the money to get it out.
04:05Did you at any time offer to repay
04:07the money that you borrowed from her?
04:09I did.
04:09I said I would pay you over time.
04:10And this is why we were still dating.
04:12I told her, like she said, I was doing Uber at the time.
04:15So I told her, you know, the payments are going to come
04:16after I catch back up on the car payments, of course.
04:20And then she was okay with that.
04:21What did she do for a living?
04:22When we were dating, when we first started dating back then,
04:25I don't know.
04:25I think she was doing something in HR or something like that.
04:30But I don't know where she was at specifically,
04:32but I think she was doing something in HR.
04:33What do you mean?
04:33You're dating her, right?
04:34You guys were exclusive?
04:35Yeah, she was doing something.
04:36No, we weren't exclusive.
04:37You were not?
04:37Yeah.
04:38Did you know that, Ms. Williams?
04:39Yes.
04:40All right.
04:40What were you doing for a living?
04:41How were you supporting yourself?
04:42Oh, I was a business office manager.
04:44In HR?
04:45Yes.
04:46Okay.
04:46How much were you making at the time, per year?
04:48Maybe like $80,000, I was it.
04:51All right.
04:52And you had savings?
04:53Yes.
04:54Okay.
04:54Let's take a look at this car.
04:56That's the one that you missed the two payments on?
04:58Yep.
04:58Okay.
04:59So what was it that he told you as far as the repayment?
05:01He told me, give him about two weeks,
05:04and he'll be able to pay me back.
05:06Once he get his car back, he's going to start doing Uber again.
05:09And just so we're clear,
05:10do you remember asking her for $2,000 originally?
05:12No.
05:13I told her the original amount, which it was for the car,
05:15it was about like $22, $23,
05:16but I told her I had borrowed money from a friend of mine,
05:18so I really only needed $15 from her.
05:20$15, but you remember borrowing $15, $25, right?
05:23$15, $25.
05:24All right.
05:25And that was for the two car payments?
05:26Yep.
05:27How much were your car payments?
05:28At the time, they were $570 a month.
05:30$570.
05:31So $570 and $570 is $1140.
05:33Where'd you need the extra money for?
05:36Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
05:39I read the text messages where you talked about being hit.
05:43Twice.
05:44She hit me around my birthday time,
05:45and then she hit me a couple months prior to that.
05:48What happened?
05:48Why'd you do that?
05:54Trina Williams is suing ex-boyfriend Roger McDonald II
05:58for over $1,500 she lent him to get his car out of impound.
06:02Roger says not only did he pay for everything
06:05when they were dating,
06:06but Trina was demeaning and abusive,
06:08so they're even.
06:09Remember borrowing $15.25, right?
06:12$15.25.
06:13All right.
06:13And that was for the two car payments?
06:15Yep.
06:15How much were your car payments?
06:16At the time, they were $570 a month.
06:19$570.
06:19So $570 and $570 is $1140.
06:22Where'd you need the extra money for?
06:23The accrued interest.
06:25So you're saying the accrued interest
06:26was almost a third of the entire amount of money
06:30that you needed.
06:30That's how much it was?
06:31Yep.
06:32All right.
06:32You had text messages on your phone
06:34that you reviewed prior to coming in today, right?
06:37Yes, Your Honor.
06:37So first of all,
06:38I'm going to direct your attention to September 21st.
06:42You remember telling the plaintiff,
06:44ask anyone who loans me money
06:45and they will say I pay my back.
06:48Mm-hmm.
06:48You remember telling her that?
06:49I do.
06:50You used the word loan, right,
06:51in that text, did you not?
06:53I did.
06:53On October 15th, 9.48 a.m.,
06:56you remember telling her,
06:58you really went and filed a claim against me.
06:59This is after you filed, correct?
07:01Yes, that's correct.
07:02You really think I'm not paying you back?
07:04I am cutting off all communication with you
07:06after I pay you off.
07:08That's what you said?
07:08Yep.
07:09And finally, October 15th, later that day,
07:11I'm still paying you back
07:13because I'm a man of my word,
07:14but if I want it to be petty,
07:16I can literally say I never signed no contract.
07:19I said I would pay you back of my own accord.
07:22You remember that?
07:22Yep.
07:23Do you have any text suggesting
07:25that this was a gift, not a loan?
07:27No.
07:27No.
07:28I'm done.
07:29Judge Hacker.
07:30Thank you, Judge.
07:30Could we put up Exhibit 3, please?
07:33I just want to compare some things
07:35that you testified to in court
07:36with what you said in your answer,
07:38because in your answer,
07:39you said that the plaintiff
07:41never asked you for the money back
07:43until you broke up.
07:44But then you just testified to Judge Levy
07:47that you told the plaintiff
07:49that you would pay her back over time,
07:51and you told her that while you were still dating.
07:54That was in September.
07:55We were no longer dealing with each other.
07:57Are you now telling me that you misspoke?
07:58Yeah, I misspoke.
07:59I didn't understand what you were saying.
08:00That was not while we were dating.
08:01That was after we were dating in September.
08:02We stopped dating at my birthday,
08:04which is August 15th,
08:05when she decided to put her hands on me,
08:07which if you want to go to the exhibit, I...
08:10I did.
08:10I read the text messages
08:11where you talked about being hit.
08:15Twice.
08:15She hit me around my birthday time
08:16when we were in Maryland at the hotel,
08:18and then she hit me a couple months prior to that
08:21while we were driving on the highway.
08:23And Ms. Williams,
08:24I saw the text messages.
08:26Yeah.
08:26You don't deny being physical with him,
08:28do you?
08:28No, I do not.
08:29What happened?
08:30Why'd you do that?
08:30Well, basically, Roger knew I just lost my mom.
08:34And basically, he was, like...
08:39Sorry.
08:42He was basically, like,
08:44antagonizing me, telling me,
08:46oh, this is the reason why you like this,
08:49because of your mom.
08:50And I was telling him,
08:52can you please stop, like,
08:53stop talking about my mom.
08:55He was bringing up your mother.
08:57Yeah.
08:57And you didn't feel like hearing about it,
08:59and you got explosive.
09:00Yeah.
09:01I'm sorry for the loss of your mother.
09:03Yeah.
09:03But that doesn't justify a physical assault.
09:05Right.
09:06And you're lucky that he didn't press charges.
09:08And I did see your text message, sir.
09:10Even after that assault,
09:12you told her you were going to pay her back.
09:14And I want you to read what you said
09:16on Saturday, September 21st.
09:18This is after the breakup.
09:20Right here, so,
09:20girl, you reach in,
09:22and you even don't believe that.
09:23Why would I not pay you back?
09:25I'm not petty like you.
09:26My word is my word.
09:27Stop there.
09:28Your word is your word.
09:29What was the word that you gave her?
09:30That I would pay her back.
09:31And so why are we here?
09:33Because after she decided
09:35to take me to court,
09:36after I told her I would pay her back,
09:37I felt as though now she's being petty
09:38because I did not press charges
09:40after you had put your hands on me.
09:41And I feel as though
09:42all the money that I spent on her
09:44in the time frame
09:45that we've been together,
09:46she hasn't done anything for me.
09:47I feel like I don't have to pay her back.
09:49It's your position
09:50that you really kind of
09:51want to rethink the deal
09:52because some things...
09:53Some things have occurred.
09:54You had a change of heart.
09:56Yeah.
09:56You changed your mind.
09:57But it sounds like
09:58it's less the physical assault.
10:00You're upset that she took you to court.
10:02But why do people take people to court?
10:04She didn't take me to court
10:05when we were still dealing
10:06with each other.
10:06It happened once.
10:07I saw her we're no longer
10:08dealing with each other.
10:08Once I said,
10:09I don't want to deal with you anymore,
10:10that's when the court came.
10:11Doesn't that make sense, though?
10:13She got physical with you.
10:14So you might not want to be
10:16getting phone calls from her
10:18and text messages from her.
10:19Maybe court was the safest option.
10:22But I do want to ask you,
10:23Ms. Williams,
10:24he's an Uber driver.
10:25Uh-huh.
10:26And there is...
10:27Previously.
10:28...a good amount of...
10:29What do you do now, by the way?
10:29I'm a manager.
10:30Oh, good for you.
10:31Good for you.
10:32I'm glad you brought that up
10:33because there seemed to be
10:34some tension over whether or not
10:37she thought she was better than you
10:39or she looked down on you.
10:40She did.
10:40She's made several statements about it.
10:42She did.
10:42Well, people who work for a living
10:44and who have jobs,
10:45whether you are driving Uber
10:46or sitting on this bench,
10:49the people who actually
10:50go to work every day
10:52and actually perform
10:53valuable services for people,
10:54that's nothing to be looked down on.
10:56My dad was a mail carrier
10:58and I used to love going to work with him
11:00and driving around in that Jeep.
11:01So your job was honorable
11:03and congratulations on being a manager now.
11:05So that's really beside the point.
11:07But he had a chip on his shoulder about that
11:09because he did say
11:10that he thought you looked down on him
11:12and I think there was a lot of tension around that.
11:14But when he was an Uber driver,
11:16who drove you back and forth
11:18to work for a couple of weeks
11:19when you couldn't drive?
11:22Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
11:24You're not going to like this, Ms. Williams.
11:26The bottom line here is
11:28he's a giver and you're a taker.
11:36Trina Williams says ex-boyfriend
11:38Roger McDonald II
11:39borrowed over $1,500
11:40to get his car out of impound
11:42and then never paid her back.
11:44But Roger says he spent way more on Trina out of love
11:48and since she abused him,
11:49he owes her nothing.
11:51When he was an Uber driver,
11:52who drove you back and forth to work
11:54for a couple of weeks
11:55when you couldn't drive?
11:57It was him.
11:57Did he charge you?
11:58No.
11:58How many miles is it for you to go from home to work?
12:02From home to work?
12:03I would say about eight.
12:05Eight miles?
12:06Yeah.
12:06True.
12:07At the time, she was going to Long Branch,
12:08which is about 45 miles away
12:10from where she lived at the time.
12:11That was by the beach.
12:12That's a short point.
12:13Any truth to that?
12:14For a week.
12:14Listen, you are trying to give short shrift
12:17to what he did for you.
12:18And I think that he simply wants that to be aired here.
12:22He was a professional.
12:23That was his job.
12:24And instead of picking up other people
12:26where he could make money,
12:28he drove you to work for two weeks.
12:30Uber's not cheap.
12:31And so I think that you want that acknowledged, correct?
12:35I have nothing further.
12:36Judge Domingo?
12:37You're not going to like this, Ms. Williams.
12:39The bottom line here is he's a giver
12:42and you're a taker.
12:44I mean, that's pretty obvious in these papers.
12:47He paid for dinners, correct?
12:49Yeah.
12:49He drove you back and forth
12:51and took off from work.
12:53I did stuff for him as well.
12:55You just said I took you for a trip for your birthday.
12:58You have to stop.
12:59Both of you have to stop doing that
13:01because this shows us...
13:02I paid for dinner too.
13:03He's saying you hit him,
13:04you're the one that keeps antagonizing.
13:06Talk to us.
13:07He paid for most of the dinners.
13:09You never refuted that when he said,
13:11I paid for all your dinners.
13:12In fact, we have a text message in here
13:14where you say you can't believe
13:15how kind and generous he is.
13:17Correct?
13:18Yes.
13:18You started off by saying he massaged your feet
13:20when you came home from work, right?
13:22He was giving.
13:23He was giving.
13:24He was giving.
13:25Who gave more in this relationship,
13:27you or him, honestly?
13:29Honestly, I would say he did.
13:32Yeah.
13:32For sure.
13:32Yeah.
13:33Okay, back to you.
13:34You did also say
13:36that it was going to take about two weeks,
13:38and that makes a lot of sense
13:40because you can't just get back in a car
13:42where that's your living
13:43and be able to pay that day.
13:45You would be lying if you said that to her.
13:47Correct?
13:48Correct.
13:48So that's another thing
13:49that supports her position, perhaps,
13:52that you were carefully thinking this out,
13:55and you did say,
13:56hey, listen, my word is golden.
13:58And the breakup made you second guess
14:01what you were doing all along
14:03because you did give us a list of money
14:06that you did spend.
14:07And it was substantial.
14:09The gas, the liquor store every three days,
14:11they must have known you by your first name
14:12in the liquor store
14:13because every one of these,
14:15the 21st, the 24th, the 28th,
14:17a lot of things.
14:19That's what I tried to explain to her.
14:20But why do you do that?
14:22Why do you keep track?
14:23That's what I was wondering.
14:24I didn't keep track.
14:25Well, I mean, it's in my records.
14:27I know exactly,
14:28because during that time frame,
14:29I know that I was only going to and from that area
14:31for one person and one person only,
14:33and I was her.
14:34Before that, if you go through my records,
14:35I was saving.
14:36My bills were done.
14:37I was paying on time, everything.
14:39But then once around February, March came,
14:41you can see the influx in spending.
14:43Another thing,
14:43I think he picked up on your feeling
14:46that he was beneath you,
14:47and that's why you never told her
14:50that you were behind on your payments.
14:52Would that be correct?
14:53Correct.
14:53Because it does say in here,
14:55you say to him,
14:56why didn't you just tell me?
14:57You know, why didn't you tell me?
14:59We maybe could have taken care of this sooner.
15:00And what is your answer?
15:02I didn't want to throw it in my face later,
15:03like everything else.
15:04And I didn't want you to know.
15:06Because I'm trying to show you
15:07that I'm somebody that I may not be,
15:09and I'm afraid you're not going to like that person.
15:12Is that true?
15:13Possibly.
15:14I don't have any other questions for you.
15:16But, Your Honor...
15:17Hold on one second, Ms. Williams.
15:19I want to just get this out quickly.
15:20Yeah.
15:21You know, we're still in a courtroom, right?
15:22Burn of the proof is yours.
15:23Yeah.
15:24But just so we're clear,
15:24you actually provided us
15:25before you came in today
15:26with proof of that payment, right?
15:28Yeah.
15:29Can we take a look at 01, please?
15:31Your bank statement that you submitted to us,
15:33that bank statement,
15:34Zelle money that you sent
15:35to Roger McDonald August 9th
15:37for $1,525, right?
15:39That's correct, yeah.
15:40And 02, your banking institution
15:42confirming the payment made for $1,525?
15:45Yes.
15:45Okay.
15:46Mr. McDonald, in August of 2024,
15:49when you guys were dating and prior,
15:51so for that period of time,
15:52who were you living with?
15:53At the time, I was back home with my parents.
15:54And you weren't paying them rent, right?
15:56No, I was, I was.
15:57I paid my mother rent at the time.
15:59She does make me pay her rent.
16:00Is that right?
16:01Yes.
16:02Okay.
16:02I have nothing further.
16:03In December, the two of you were still engaging
16:06in text communications about repayment of this debt.
16:09When did you file this lawsuit?
16:11December.
16:12Pretty shortly after the debt became due.
16:15Not a bad thing to do, frankly,
16:17especially when there's been a physical altercation.
16:19You are too elegant a person
16:21to ever put your hands on anybody.
16:23Right.
16:24Don't do it again.
16:25I won't.
16:26I don't have anything else.
16:28Then we are going to retire to deliberate at this time.
16:30Thank you both.
16:31Court is now in recess.
16:32Parties will be recalled.
16:42Clearly, she lays out on September 21st
16:45what their agreement was.
16:46She writes to them,
16:47as agreed,
16:48Friday, September 20th, 2024,
16:50was going to be your first payment.
16:52It's now September 21st,
16:54and I'll take that to mean
16:55that you don't plan on paying me back.
16:57And that's when he said,
16:59my word is my word.
17:00However, I had to pay my first,
17:03which was more important,
17:04is what he wrote.
17:05This was a loan.
17:07It wasn't a gift.
17:08He was upset for whatever reason he was.
17:09And I think that she's made out a burden for 1525.
17:12I do, too.
17:13You know, I think that now he sort of wants to revisit past good deeds done in the relationship,
17:19where I think that he did.
17:21I think he extended himself very much for this young woman.
17:24But that's a separate issue from whether or not this transaction was one where there was an intention that he
17:30pay it back.
17:30And I think that the evidence clearly shows that there was.
17:33I think the whole relationship supports her position,
17:37even in a negative way for her personality type,
17:40that she was not going to let this go without getting paid back.
17:43She really took more in the course of the relationship than she gave.
17:47And then I think in an aftermath,
17:48he thought about it saying,
17:50well, you know, I did all of this for her.
17:52This is the quid pro quo.
17:53Now, so I'll just take this and we'll kind of be even now.
17:56But, you know, I think he recognized and he knows, as we do,
17:59that this was money that she lent him
18:01and that he had to pay her back and he made an agreement.
18:04And, you know, we'll help him keep his word.
18:06I think he really got upset that she sued him.
18:08And sometimes that's just what people have to do
18:11when they really kind of have to be at arm's length with each other.
18:14Well, how long is your word good for?
18:15I mean, that's really like another thing.
18:17Like, my word is good for 11 months.
18:19So if 11 months pass, then OK, then you could not trust my word anymore.
18:23Done.
18:24So we're unanimous.
18:25Yes.
18:25Super.
18:29Court is back in session.
18:31Parties are reminded that you're still under oath.
18:33Thank you, Cassandra.
18:34You're welcome.
18:35All right.
18:35We've deliberated and we have reached a unanimous verdict.
18:38The text messages make out the fact very clearly
18:40that there was an expectation of repayment,
18:43that this was a loan from the very beginning.
18:45Mr. McDonald doesn't diminish what, if anything,
18:48you did during the relationship to cover other expenses.
18:51As far as the 1525 was concerned,
18:53it was a loan, not a gift.
18:55So it is the judgment of this court
18:57in favor of the plaintiff for $1,525.
19:01Thank you both.
19:04This case has concluded.
19:05All parties are excused.
19:10She got what she wanted.
19:12I don't got to deal with it no more.
19:13Who else is going to make sure you get your car out?
19:16Like, if I didn't care,
19:17I wouldn't have gave him the money at all.
19:19I know I spent about $4,000 on a girl.
19:21Massaging, giving you flowers,
19:23you know, doing things that you never had done before.
19:26I spent so much on her.
19:28What's she needed for?
19:29She makes six figures.
19:30I feel like it was love bombing, definitely, at first.
19:32For, like, the past couple weeks,
19:33my mother had passed.
19:34I told her, you know,
19:35you can't use that as an excuse
19:36to just belittle people and blast out her people.
19:39She didn't like that.
19:40Well, I mushed him.
19:41It wasn't, like, a head.
19:43I'm not abusive, I promise.
19:45Are you being sued?
19:47Let Tribunal Justice decide your case.
19:50Find us on social media at Tribunal Justice.
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