- il y a 1 heure
From skepticism to scale, Anish Surana traces how India’s microdrama industry went from zero to billions of views in under a year. In this conversation, he breaks down rapid production pipelines, fighting free platforms like YouTube and Instagram, and why pure storytelling, not localisation, is the real global currency. A sharp look at how India is positioning itself as the next major hub for vertical storytelling. Interview by Maelle Billant.
Catégorie
🦄
Art et designTranscription
00:00Hi Hanish, thanks for joining and yes, please first let us know who you are.
00:09Thanks Mel.
00:13Sorry, I didn't get you.
00:14You can go ahead.
00:15All right, so Mel, I am formerly a television creator.
00:21I work in production houses, a couple of platforms and I took a sabbatical last year.
00:26And when I was in Melbourne last year having a good family vacation, I had a couple of my friends, because I studied there as well.
00:37So I had my couple of Chinese friends who were hooked on to Danjo.
00:41And I had a question with them, what is this?
00:43When I started watching them, I was like, this is cringe, who watches this?
00:48And little did I know when I came back to India last year, December 26, probably I do remember that date.
00:55And I started hearing from my industry friends that micro dramas are going to come in India.
01:01I think people are planning to get into it.
01:04So I said, yeah, I know about that.
01:06I think I'm pretty much aware what kind of content it is and what kind of audience does it serve to.
01:11So, again, little did I know that in the next 15 days, I was the first person in Bombay to go on floor with a micro drama.
01:23And by 15th of January, 2025, my first vertical drama shoot started.
01:28We were young, we were very new, we were very raw, we were trying to explore how vertical dramas are being shot, because no one had done that in India before.
01:41A lot of learnings came through, a lot of mistakes we did.
01:45But what we were that we were very small and hungry young team, we pivoted fast, we learned from our mistakes very fast.
01:55And then we set ourselves to a goal that 2025, we want to become the biggest micro drama production house in India.
02:05And we would do whatever it takes to reach there.
02:12So as we speak now today, we have produced almost 150 plus dramas in India, around 1.2 billion cumulative views to all our shows, more than that.
02:24And we believe so that we are the biggest company in India in terms, production house in terms of the number of shows we have produced.
02:35And the kind of experience we have.
02:38However, saying that we are the only production house in India who have produced shows internationally for Drama Wave.
02:45We are in words now to produce more international content for other platforms.
02:50That would be fruitful in coming months.
02:53So I think now we want to take Donjo as a story, as a format to the world.
03:00We want to create local Indian content for the audiences worldwide.
03:07First, congrats, because that's huge.
03:10And they were saying you were the first in the Indian markets and you made it big.
03:16So that sort of work.
03:17When we talked just a bit before, you said that you had some months and years that were quite intense to make it work.
03:26So maybe can you also explain a bit more what were the constraints?
03:30You said that we are a small team, but also can you explain what you went through and give us some examples about what it is about?
03:37Because, of course, we know that the pace for Dwanju is quite fast.
03:44You need to optimize a lot.
03:47So what were a few examples about what you were to go through with a small team?
03:51And, of course, big expectations for the audience, because we know that the audience is quite picky and they need emotions,
03:59they need intensity, they need quality.
04:00So what did you go through?
04:04So, Amil, I come from a television background in India, which is basically daily soap operas.
04:10We produce and telecast a daily 22 minutes of content, 25, 30 minutes of content every day.
04:18So, what my 23 years of learning in television gave me an upper edge as to how I can imply that kind of production knowledge
04:28and the efficiency to turn around content quickly in terms of production.
04:35So, that really helped us in the beginning and till today, we are the only deep, I think, I'm not going to say in that way,
04:47but I would put it across that we write a script, we shoot a script, and we do the post-production in 12 days for one Dwanju.
04:59So, from writing to panel delivery, we just take 12 days.
05:03So, what it does is that initial struggle was that when the market started in India, the budgets were not very great.
05:13We had a constraints of budgets, but obviously now a lot of platforms have come in, the budgets have become better.
05:21And now, I guess every player, every production house or every creator wants to get into the exciting industry and make it big.
05:33Yeah, now it's getting bigger.
05:35So, I guess it's also easier for people to get in and to be on board.
05:41Yes.
05:41Can you also explain, because you said that now you are, let's say, producing for India and you would like also to go international.
05:52So, how are you going to make it work?
05:54Because, of course, we see that we can have some guiding principles that are international for Dwanju.
05:59But also, that it's good to have, let's say, local content that's adapted to the audience that you want to address.
06:06So, do you think that you would need to have some local content with international principles?
06:15Or do you want to have different or same story, but with, let's say, specifics that will adapt, depending on the country or the continent that you will address?
06:26How do you want to build things internationally?
06:29Do you already have an idea about that?
06:31See, while I genuinely believe that in the era of Netflix, the content, the language barrier is gone.
06:43You know, you can watch a Hindi content on a Netflix platform sitting there, right?
06:50That's a choice you make.
06:52So, I guess, in coming years, these are the choices which our vertical platformers are also going to offer.
07:00That you can watch a Chinese show, a French show, a Spanish show, a Hindi show, or, in matter of fact, any regional language show of India on the world platform.
07:11And there are fantastic stories which have come out from West, East, as well as India.
07:17I truly feel that Donjo is a universal format.
07:26It doesn't require a localization of a content or an Indian content or an adaptation.
07:35Every story, every story can give you a dopamine high of every one minute, two minutes.
07:43Any story which gives you that kind of emotions or feelings are going to work across the globe.
07:51It's not supposed to be that any Chinese show's adaptation is going to work in West or in a Western show adaptation is going to work in East.
07:59I genuinely feel a Western show just being translated or dubbed into a Chinese language or a Chinese show dubbed into an English or a French language is going to do fantastic.
08:10Because the core emotion of that story is going to be the same.
08:15It's going to impact the audience the same.
08:18And we live in a world of a global audience where I would want to watch a Chinese show also and I want to watch a French show also and I want to watch an American show also.
08:28The content which resonates with an audience is going to be the key forward.
08:35It's not going to be a show produced in Turkey or a show produced in China or a show produced in Paris or Philippines or Singapore.
08:45It's going to be language is not going to be the barrier.
08:49The cultural nuances are not going to be the barrier.
08:52It's going to be the pure storytelling which captivates the audience, the donjo audience, which is going to give them that emotional high, that quick takeaway, those high moments where they resonate with the characters immediately.
09:08immediately, their fantasies, their, their, their Rags to Riches story, everything.
09:14I mean, it does not require any cultural nuances.
09:18I genuinely feel that.
09:19And coming back to what Ananta stands for, we genuinely stand for Indian content going global.
09:26We genuinely feel, there is a lot of stories, a lot of donjo stories in India, which can go global and attract every single ethnicity person in their local languages.
09:42Yes.
09:43So the, as you were saying, maybe the core emotions that are in Dwanjus are universal.
09:48And maybe it's also a way to travel, uh, through the world, uh, trying to, um, also have different cultural content, uh, but that can be addressed, um, to different targets and audiences, according to you.
10:07Yep.
10:08Interesting.
10:09Interesting because we also hear sometimes that, you know, content needs to be adapted.
10:13So I think it's also another, uh, vision that's also quite interesting.
10:18Um, so thanks for sharing that.
10:20Okay, I'll give you an example.
10:21I'll give you an example.
10:23Uh, we have a lot of, on our platforms in India, we do have a lot of Chinese shows adapted into Indian languages and they are doing phenomenally well.
10:32So, uh, there is no adaptivity.
10:34There is no, nothing else.
10:36It's just pure story, which an audience gets connected in the local language.
10:40So, it's not an adaptation, it's just dubbed version.
10:45So, when you dub to a local.
10:46Just for understanding.
10:47Yeah.
10:48So, when you dub it to the local language, I don't think so.
10:51The content will travel.
10:53I think when you go to all these and all the apps, whether it's Netshot, Real, uh, Drama Box or Real Shorts, they all have Chinese content with them dubbed in English.
11:02And they are all doing fantastically well.
11:04So, a US market is also accepting content from China.
11:07So, I don't see the boundaries set in.
11:11Going forward, yes, everyone would want to have local content produced for themselves.
11:17But, uh, the race would be who, who is making a good content.
11:22Who are making a good stories, which are going to resonate with a person sitting in US, or sitting in France, or sitting in India, in Bombay, anywhere.
11:33If I can relate to that story, I can relate to that emotion.
11:37I don't think so.
11:38Culture boundaries are shrinking.
11:39Audiences are, uh, liking, uh, content world over.
11:44They, they want to see different ethnicity people.
11:47They want to see the nuances of different cultures.
11:50Uh, why I, I don't see the boundaries.
11:54That, that's very interesting.
11:58And also, maybe that's going to drive, um, your way of working.
12:02Um, so if you want to work international, have you already thought about, um, the team?
12:07Um, let's say, um, um, the way that you're going to work with people?
12:12Do you want to have, um, different cultures onboarded?
12:15Or, um, do you want to stay and stick with your group because it's working well?
12:21Um, how do you see things?
12:23Because I think it's also important to have some connections worldwide to be able also to, uh, export.
12:29Yeah.
12:30So as I see, um, I, uh, I want, uh, my entire aim and how I see Ananta going forward is Indian storytelling on a global platform.
12:43I want to, uh, uh, how do I, I mean, let's take a use case example of China, China storytelling, China's donjos have dominated the world, right?
12:56We all know that I want Indian content to dominate the world.
13:01When I say this, I say with utmost, uh, humbleness that, uh, uh, uh, Indian made content would, I really push forward.
13:13I really want that to be seen and applauded across the globe.
13:17I, as we today, uh, see, uh, how do I put across every Chinese show dubbed into different languages and mean put in various regions and various platforms.
13:28I want Indian content to be dubbed and put into local languages everywhere.
13:33I want to see people, the world audience should see the kind of storytellers we are.
13:40India is a land of storytellers.
13:42We are being brought up by that.
13:45We have the biggest, uh, history, mythology into, and, uh, we are grown up.
13:52Uh, every person here is grown up with some stories.
13:56So, uh, there's a lot of stuff which can come from here.
14:00And, uh, when I see this taking, uh, Indian donjos internationally is where I mean that I want to take Indian, uh, stories, Indian content to the global level.
14:11And, uh, have global expertise to make Indian content.
14:16I don't want to make global content, but I want to make Indian content global.
14:21There's kind of difference in that.
14:23So, uh, to use the best talent abroad to make an Indian, uh, content, I would be open for it.
14:29But I don't want to go, uh, say in Hollywood and produce an English show for a donjo, an English donjo.
14:37Because I think we have a lot of opportunity and good stories in India.
14:41The market is booming.
14:43It's becoming bigger and bigger day by day.
14:45I think we, uh, probably in next two years, we would be the biggest market after China would be India.
14:51That's what I am predicting.
14:53So, uh, Indian donjos are not, not going to go anywhere.
14:57And it's, it, and we had just started by the way.
14:59It's just one year.
15:00And, uh, we are already doing fantastic, uh, we, uh, I think, uh, if I'm not wrong, almost two to three thousand titles have been already reproduced in India in the period of one year.
15:14So there's a huge market and we are still going strong and we are still producing strength by strength, platform by platform.
15:21Everyone is bullish that, you know, uh, India is going to be the next, uh, uh, you know, donjo hub.
15:27And as the audiences taste and the habits are changing, people are going, uh, mobile first, they are changing the way they view content.
15:38They, uh, I mean, from the traditional formats, which is, you know, your, all your Netflix shows or your Amazon shows, they're not going to go anywhere, but donjo is not going to replace them.
15:51But donjo is going to be a strong contender standing with them and, uh, hustling with them side by side.
15:57It's not going to be an easy, uh, giveaway for donjo in India, especially.
16:02But that's very positive for India and for the rest of the world to see also what, uh, you're capable of and, uh, what your stories are about.
16:11Can you just give, give us some specifics about Indian stories?
16:15You're talking about myths, you're talking about, um, a certain expertise or savoir-faire.
16:21Um, can you give some examples about, uh, these stories and what you like?
16:26Maybe you also have, uh, some specifics or, um, uh, things that you like to do and to work on, uh, in your company, uh, or things that work better?
16:36Um.
16:37We, obviously, uh, uh, I feel that our next phase of growth, which we have charted for 2026 is going to be bigger and better.
16:47We, uh, aim to produce, uh, more shows this year.
16:51We want to double down.
16:52We also are, uh, as of now, the donjo market across the globe is, uh, kind of playing around certain tropes of micro dramas, which are not new, uh, which are also the same for India.
17:05The contractual marriages and all those, uh, werewolves and the fantasies is either kind of same formats, which are also working in India.
17:15But I genuinely feel that because it's a new format, we are trying to, uh, get audience habituated to it.
17:24Once the, uh, audience gets habituated to, to the donjo, their first to go to content would be donjo.
17:30I think then the market is open.
17:32We would be able to tell stories, uh, which are deeply rooted in Indian culture, villages and all.
17:39Uh, so let me tell you by giving you an example, Neil.
17:43Uh, when, when you unlock your mobile, which is the first app you go to when you want to consume content?
17:49Um, from my side, that would be YouTube, I guess.
17:58It's Instagram.
17:59Instagram and YouTube.
18:01Right?
18:02Right.
18:03They are free.
18:05They are free of charge.
18:07You are consuming content free of charge.
18:10I really want to tell all my donjo players across the globe.
18:15We are not fighting among ourselves.
18:17We are fighting with the Instagram, the YouTube, the free content, which is freely available for everyone.
18:24We are fighting for them.
18:25We are fighting for the audience attention, which they have.
18:29And we are fighting for, uh, making the audience habituated that the first, the first thing when they unlock their mobile is has to be a donjo app, has to be a vertical drama app.
18:42This is all we are fighting for.
18:44This is all we are trying to create that ecosystem where, uh, we know that everyone who wants to consume or content of any sort is going to come to my app, any app office.
18:55So that is what we are creating an habit.
18:57China has been successful in creating that.
19:00The rest of the part of the world are still prying and we are all arms in arms together, whether it's India, US, every other part of the world.
19:08We are together trying to create that kind of, uh, environment where an audience, whenever they have some time, they just go and watch a donjo.
19:18So you're fighting against something which is paid and something which is absolutely free.
19:23So, please understand, there's an important, uh, difference here.
19:28Very good reminder.
19:29And how do you need to compete?
19:31Um, is this about quality?
19:34Is this about, uh, production, post-production?
19:37Um, from your side, what would be, um, the way for you to compete with these free, um, let's say, networks?
19:53See, uh, do you know that, uh, China doesn't have a YouTube?
20:01You're aware of that?
20:04Mm-hmm.
20:05It has its own system of, uh, videos.
20:08So, apparently for them, the natural progression to consume content was donjo, an app.
20:15But for, for audiences across the globe, they have a choice, right?
20:20They can go to Instagram or YouTube or a Facebook for free content.
20:25Now, why, uh, how do we get audience to donjo apps is a game where we have to up the quality.
20:35We have to up the storytelling.
20:36We have to really, uh, market it so cleverly that, uh, everyone who, uh, once gets habituated to looking at verticals should not go somewhere else.
20:49They should not, uh, do you know the, uh, there's something called doom scrolling on Instagram?
20:56There's a, uh, phrase we call it doom scrolling where someone is just sitting and just casually, you know, uh, going through Instagram.
21:04That's called doom scrolling.
21:05How do we create that kind of, uh, content where an audience just keeps doom scrolling on our donjo app?
21:12That is where great storytelling, great production, uh, great, uh, uh, how do I say marketing would, uh, gonna make an impact to the audience.
21:26And obviously, uh, because we are going to fight against free versus paid, we have to give something which they are not offering what we can offer them.
21:36So, uh, that's the, uh, kind of differentiation that everyone has to really think about.
21:45Yeah, understood.
21:45And I think you're right.
21:47That's, uh, let's say the main target and the main, uh, uh, challenge also.
21:53Um, so I think also that something that you said that you need to stop fighting against each other, the platforms.
22:01So do you think that, uh, it would be good to have kind of an alliance between the platforms?
22:05Or do you think it's also good to have diversity so that, you know, it's also a way to challenge each other?
22:10How do you see things between these huge markets in India and Asia?
22:16So the whole idea in Asia, I would not say India in Asia and the West part is to build an ecosystem first, to get people hooked on to donjo, to get them, uh, uh, the first source of entertainment.
22:32When, uh, CV, everyone is going to kind of compete with each other that is there, you know, for the numbers and for the viewers, but as an ecosystem, as a format, it has to flourish.
22:44And every, I genuinely feel that everyone should come together and first of all, flourish the format.
22:49Once the format is widely accepted and it is the first go-to format for every audience, that is where the war begins.
22:56I mean, to be honest, the war is going to be always there, but how do we create that entire ecosystem?
23:01And that is that everyone has to come together to create that ecosystem hand in hand, also have that sense of competition among them so that everyone is competing against each other.
23:12So it's going to be an entire ecosystem, which one has to create.
23:16And I, I genuinely don't feel that only one platform can create that entire ecosystem or can create the entire habit of an audience because, uh, for say, uh, almost 60 decades from the time when the television and, uh, the, uh, content has come into our lives.
23:34We are just habituated to watch content into 16 race to nine format, whether it's theaters, whether it's television, whether it's whatever it is, we are so, uh, used to watch content in that way to get them habituated into a nine race to 16 format or vertical format is going to be a challenge for entire industry world over.
23:55It's not China has got that China is already way ahead of us.
23:59They've already said the industries, everything is set for them.
24:02They're doing fabulous business.
24:04Sorry.
24:05Uh, they're doing better business than television and films there donjos.
24:09So they have already are way ahead of us for people for Asia or for, uh, West, we have to come together or everyone has to come together and see where, uh, uh, the donjos are going to head.
24:23I mean, every, uh, uh, every other day, I mean, I'm listening or I'm reading across.
24:29Uh, right now Disney is planning to get into verticals.
24:32They are, they are planning to get into originals or commission or existing library.
24:36They want to create into vertical.
24:37So entire world is looking at the vertical content as a per se.
24:44So, uh, the format is not going to go anywhere.
24:47It's going to stay and it's going to stay for a long time.
24:49But how do we, uh, uh, there's a difference between a vertical content and a donjo because donjo is a storytelling, a short storytelling vertical content can be reels, can be YouTube shorts, can be a lot of other stuff also.
25:05But, uh, together, I guess, uh, and, uh, I don't see an alliance, but a certain regulatory alliance where we, uh, where all the platforms come together and have a guideline to grow the market all over.
25:20And then the, uh, strongest and the best player, which would be, is going to survive.
25:27But to have that, one has to create that kind of ecosystem or else, uh, it would just fade away and it cannot.
25:34Or I, and I genuinely feel that it should not become on one of the, uh, fast, which is just a way, which has come and it's just going to die in some time, you know?
25:43True.
25:44And we hope that India is going to be a good part of this ecosystem.
25:47That's what you are trying to reach.
25:49We are.
25:49How far from this?
25:51We are.
25:53Sorry?
25:53We are.
25:53Of course, yes.
25:54And I think we are going strength by strength.
25:57Yeah.
25:58I think we, uh, uh, at this juncture, uh, I think post, uh, China, we are the only country which, uh, are producing number of donjos continuously back to back in a great numbers.
26:20So India is a great market, by the way.
26:22It is already a great market and the idea, and I understood the next step is to be part, uh, let's say, um, um, of the exportation and to also, let's say, have Indian donjos, uh, everywhere in Western countries.
26:36Maybe also more in Europe because in Europe it's still, let's say, the beginning.
26:40So maybe the next step for you would be to, uh, to boom in these countries.
26:45I'm, uh, by the way, I'm already involved with native American, uh, native advertising agency in Europe.
26:51And we are trying to, uh, come up with certain solutions to create a local micro industry there.
26:59Uh, so, uh, uh, it's a Sweden based, uh, institute called native, uh, advertising institute.
27:07It's in Copenhagen and we are trying to, uh, create a lot of micro production houses and I'm helping them, uh, understand the format.
27:17I'm trying to help them to, uh, uh, know the nuances of donjo, how they are created, um, on their panel, trying to discuss with a lot of creators there, empowering them, sharing our, uh, knowledge of creating, uh, verticals.
27:33So, uh, so, uh, so that I guess the Europe, the next wave has to come from Europe.
27:37I think, uh, India has gone through it.
27:40U.S. is already on that rally.
27:42Europe is the only country which is, uh, as stuff now left behind.
27:46And I genuinely feel that, uh, the next wave of, uh, verticals are going to come from Europe.
27:52It's a huge market, which is an untapped market, by the way.
27:55Um, yeah, that's what we hope for, uh, especially here in France, we hope that, uh, we'll be able to work on.
28:02I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of signs, a lot of signs.
28:06Yeah, yeah.
28:06There are a lot of great signs, which I've been, uh, hearing from a lot of people.
28:10Uh, I am attending, uh, in June, London native advertising, uh, the panel where we are going to discuss micro dramas as a whole.
28:18And it's going to be a huge panel from, uh, veterans from across the globes.
28:21And that is where we, uh, we really want to see a lot of new creators coming in, learning and taking, uh, verticals to the next level in Europe.
28:33Great.
28:35Uh, last question, uh, from my side.
28:37Um, so you talked about, uh, India production to spread all over the world.
28:42Uh, would you see Duanjou as a way to, um, let's say, have a soft power?
28:47Um, do you think it's, uh, a good way to send some messages or to spread the Indian culture and Indian stories?
28:56Yes.
28:57Yes.
28:58I think, uh, content, uh, as, uh, or I'll say stories in itself are soft power.
29:06When you say a great story, when you say a great, uh, show, I mean, uh, we, uh, I mean, there was a film called Parasite from Korea, right?
29:15It just became an Oscar and, uh, everyone turned around and saw Korea as the next content hub.
29:21So I genuinely feel that storytelling has the power to, uh, to have a narrative for, uh, creators and spreading the culture.
29:32Uh, I mean, Bollywood is famous for, uh, in, I mean, uh, across the globe for Indian, I mean, in Bollywood has fame.
29:40Uh, how do I say glamorize the entire film industry, uh, across the globe.
29:46I think Indian non-joes also has that potential to, uh, uh, spread culture.
29:53Are, uh, uh, the way we think, the way we perceive things.
29:57I mean, yeah.
29:59And because it, because, uh, it does not require any theatrical release.
30:04It does not require any, uh, kind of huge investments to create.
30:09It's, uh, I, I guess, uh, it's a very, uh, unique one of an opportunity to produce, uh, content,
30:19which is going to, uh, go global and show our, uh, talent and culture across.
30:27Great.
30:28Yeah.
30:29Uh, hopefully, um, thank you very much, Anish, for, uh, all this, uh, uh, feedback, uh, from India
30:37and also from international work that you are doing right now.
30:40Um, final words are for you.
30:42Anything that you want to share, um, about Tuanju?
30:45Um, maybe there's a future, any new projects you're working on?
30:52I, I think exciting times are there.
30:54Uh, we are all happy, uh, in India, uh, creating this next wave of format.
30:59I would always say that Donja as a format is now being widely accepted in India.
31:03And it's, uh, I think, uh, it's going to become in the next two to three years, uh, four to
31:10six billion dollar industry in India.
31:12So the opportunities are big.
31:14I would also, uh, like to invite, uh, global players and global producers and global platforms
31:21to come to India to see and produce local content because we have a huge audience, which
31:27is just waiting to tap in.
31:29We are a mobile first country.
31:31We have the maximum number of mobiles connections and the internet penetration across the globe.
31:36So I guess, uh, this is going to be the next evolution of content in India.
31:41And I genuinely feel that everyone can have a pie of it.
31:46Very exciting for all the actors.
31:50Whether it's actor, whether it's, uh, technicians, whether it's producers, whether it's platform,
31:55everyone can have a share of pie.
31:56Great.
31:58Great.
31:59So the invites, uh, has been launched.
32:01So, uh, then I guess that, uh, we will, uh, see you again very soon.
32:05Um, so thank you Anish and, um, please come back to us with some news.
32:11Uh, always appreciated to share about, uh, evolution of Dwanju and, um, and how it's
32:17going there.
32:19Sure.
32:20Thanks, Mel.
32:22Thanks to you, Anish.
32:23Thank you.
Commentaires