- 14 hours ago
Seth and Sean dive into what Nick Caserio had to say yesterday about what 'best player available' practically means, scouting the o-line, and the TE room.
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00:00Draft is nine days away, and it should be a fun draft for the Texans.
00:05Nick did not promise anything for you draft party goers.
00:09If anything, he alluded to the fact that he might trade out of the first round again,
00:13and you'll all hate him.
00:14Yeah, which everybody, I see that around the rounds on NFL Network and everything,
00:19and ESPN people are basically acting like they're somehow doing some deep dive research
00:27and realizing that the Texans might trade out of the first round.
00:30We've got that coming up in a little bit. Don't worry.
00:32We know. We know. Thanks, Ian Rappaport. We get it.
00:35Yep. The Nugget Hussies are trying hard with the Texans, man, but they don't give it up.
00:40They just don't give it up.
00:42So the Texans, that is.
00:44So here's Nick Casario yesterday.
00:46Best player available was a big topic yesterday, and eventually during the press conference,
00:50someone asked kind of the existential question of what exactly does best player available mean?
00:57Yeah, it's trust the grades, and there's a reason that we put grades on a player.
01:02So, again, we grade the players, we stack the board, we do it vertically and horizontally,
01:07and then you work across.
01:08Okay, if you have two players that are similarly graded, okay, great.
01:13If you have another player that's graded a little bit lower at a quote-unquote position of need,
01:19okay, so you're going to take the lesser player when our grades tell us let's do something else.
01:23So, again, it goes back to the integrity of the process.
01:25So trust the grades.
01:27There's a reason that we grade the players.
01:29We're not a round-based team.
01:31We assign a commensurate value to the player of what's the value relative to what we think the role is
01:37going to be.
01:38That doesn't mean we're going to be right about it.
01:39It just means this is how we see that player if we were to add them to the team.
01:44So work across, work vertically, and then pick the players off as they come.
01:50So I guess that's what that means.
01:52So I would say, like, other than quarterback, like, there's no position that we wouldn't consider drafting
01:58if that's what the board told us.
02:01So that's why we set the board.
02:03That's why we spend as much time on it as possible and say, okay, here's a group we're picking from.
02:07And, again, we're not picking every player.
02:09Like, we're going to reduce it down to however many players that at some point we would consider drafting
02:16if we had the opportunity.
02:17And that's probably taking 10 or 15 out that they're probably not going to be there,
02:22assuming you can't get in the top 15.
02:24All right?
02:25Well, okay, well, if one of those players, let's just say you had graded at a certain level,
02:29gets down to a certain point, okay, then you have a discussion.
02:33There's obviously a reason why or something, some mitigating circumstance that caused that player
02:37to end up down where he is.
02:38So it's just more about trusting our grades and trusting our process more than anything else.
02:44Yeah, and he talked about that, too, yesterday.
02:46They could go up.
02:46They could go down.
02:47We know last year they traded back.
02:49We know they tried to trade up.
02:51Some of those guys he's talking about, Seth, that maybe they had in the top 10 or 15,
02:55started to get into the teams there.
02:56And, unfortunately, they started to get picked off the board as well by other teams.
03:01So they end up moving back in that whole thing.
03:03Is there a position, with having heard Nick Casario say that, he said, other than quarterback,
03:09we could draft anything, basically.
03:10At 28, let's pretend they stay at 28, which is, I would be surprised.
03:15But let's pretend for a second that they draft where they're slated to draft right now at 28.
03:20And I'll say, other than running back, maybe, is there a position that would surprise,
03:26that would shock you that they took?
03:28Like, especially having heard what Nick said right there about best player available.
03:31It would surprise me if they took a wide receiver still.
03:35Just because, again, there's always a little bit of nuance when people talk about best player available.
03:41And, you know, he talked about stacking the board horizontally.
03:43So if they get to a point where they're at pick 28, maybe there's a few guys that they like.
03:48And in that cluster, there's a wide receiver, a defensive tackle, maybe a tight end,
03:56if Kenyon Sadiq is down there or something.
04:00I don't want to get too far in the weeds with this.
04:02I don't think he'd be higher.
04:03But anyway, like, hypothetically, there's a cluster of guys there that are similarly graded.
04:10That's where the, okay, what's the guy's role on the team going to be?
04:17And if, you know, Concepcion and one of the defensive tackles was there,
04:21all right, the defensive tackle has a more clear path to playing
04:24and being a valuable part and a contributor more quickly.
04:28So you'd probably take the defensive tackle there.
04:31Probably.
04:31Wide receiver's an interesting one, though.
04:33Like, just, I want to go a little deeper on that.
04:36I agree with you that you have a better chance of getting on the field
04:39as a defensive tackle with this team.
04:41I don't know that it's a total no-brainer, though.
04:43Like, if they really like, Concepcion's a good name, Omar Cooper from Indiana,
04:48those are the wide receivers that are kind of falling in that range of the draft.
04:52I don't know.
04:53Like, I guess in some ways it's like, how do they feel about Jaden Higgins?
04:56Like, do they feel like that guy who's dropping to 28, is he better than Jaden Higgins?
05:02Can he give us more than Jaden Higgins?
05:04Well, if he dropped, like, if on their board he's higher than 28 and he's dropped,
05:08but meanwhile, you know, Peter Woods might be somewhere right around 28 for them,
05:13then by that logic they would take Concepcion.
05:16Right.
05:16Because that guy is dropped for whatever reason, if they like him that much.
05:20Yeah.
05:21So I think it matters more, okay, if they're equally graded.
05:24So it's not a dropping.
05:26It's like that guy's sitting there right where Peter Woods, the defensive tackle, is.
05:32And it's, if they're not worried as much about the, if you're taking genuinely best player available
05:39and how do we get that guy?
05:41Yeah, I guess so.
05:41Yeah.
05:42Sure.
05:43Yeah, sure.
05:43There's an avenue for it if they don't like, if I think they like Jaden Higgins though.
05:47No, I think they do too.
05:48But we don't know.
05:49We don't know.
05:50Well, I think they like Jaden Higgins.
05:52Yeah.
05:52And Jaden Higgins had a nice year last year.
05:54I'm just saying, we don't know what they think about some of these receivers you're talking about.
05:57That, I'm not saying they're going to take a receiver.
05:59However, I'm saying I could see it, I could see it happening if they really like one of
06:03those guys.
06:04That's the question is, is this, do they think this guy's better than Jaden Higgins?
06:08Right.
06:08So if they like, yes, if Concepcion is the best player on their board and there's nobody
06:13else like that's similarly graded, then I think by his logic, yeah, they would take Concepcion.
06:18I just think that at the 28th spot, there's just still, there's usually two or three guys
06:23that you've got similarly graded.
06:24I don't know that we're, like, I don't, I don't think they'll take a receiver at 28, but
06:29I think receiver might be a bigger priority than maybe, than maybe some people think
06:32it is on this team.
06:34I like, I know, I know we've got names that are all slotted in there and, and I think
06:37Nico Collins is one of the best receivers in football.
06:40So push him aside.
06:41Jaden Higgins did some nice things last year, but it's no guarantee that he makes a jump
06:46and becomes, you know, Nico 2.0 or even a poor man's Nico.
06:50Jalen Noel didn't get on the field very much for whatever reason.
06:53Xavier Hutchinson, I think has hit his ceiling.
06:55Tank Dale is a total question mark.
06:58I feel like after Collins and sort of Jaden Higgins, that room is a big mystery right
07:02now.
07:03You know, I think that could be maybe not at 28, but I think it wouldn't shock me if they
07:07took a receiver in the second round of this draft.
07:09And from everything that I've read, that's kind of the sweet spot for receiver.
07:13There aren't a ton of great receivers in round one, but there's a lot of good ones in rounds
07:17two and three.
07:17The, uh, I guess the one you always have to go back to is Blake Fisher.
07:21Blake Fisher was kind of a surprise pick because it didn't seem like a position of need.
07:25You've got two offensive tackles.
07:27And after that draft, Casario said, Hey, you usually need your third offensive tackle at
07:33some point during the season.
07:35And they, to the point where he's talked about it enough since then that it almost feels like
07:39he looks at sixth offense or third offensive tackle as a starting position because you're
07:43going to rely on the guy at some point.
07:45So yeah, that, that would be taking a receiver this year would feel a lot like when they took
07:50Blake Fisher, uh, in the second round when nobody really, I, I don't recall many people
07:55at all mocking enough, an offensive tackle in the first couple of rounds.
07:58No, and people, and I don't think people really love that pick because of that reason.
08:02I just wonder if people would be more open to it now that I, I almost feel like the longer
08:05you're with a GM as a fan, you start to understand, especially if the team's good,
08:09you start to understand them a little bit more.
08:11I just, I just don't think it would shock me.
08:12Yeah, the people that'd be upset about it mostly will be people that really liked one
08:16of the other guys.
08:17It's a good, one of the other defensive linemen or offensive linemen that's still on the board.
08:21Absolutely.
08:21Absolutely.
08:22Um, this was James Lipford on, uh, he's the assistant GM.
08:27And, uh, the question was about, is there a position group that's deeper than maybe most
08:32of the others this year?
08:33On the, uh, position specific question, you know, not to get anything too specific because
08:38I don't want, I want to say too much, but there's definitely, I can think of a couple
08:41that come to mind that are, okay, it's light here.
08:45Nick and D'Amico and our group, we've had that discussion, honestly, dating back to the
08:48fall.
08:49Hey, this particular group, it's, it's going to be a light.
08:51So I think the way that affects things is maybe get to day three and hey, Nick, the way
08:57it's sort of played out, there's really only one or two left at position X that may make
09:02our team or be a factor.
09:04If we really want one, it's probably going to be early or it's going to be one of these
09:08two guys, we don't want to get into those positions, but, and there's going to be the
09:11inverse of that argument is, Hey, there's still a dozen guys out there at this position.
09:15Like we don't have to, you know, go crazy and go get one immediately.
09:19We might can be a little patient at this position, but I think that's part of our job is, is
09:23really knowing the landscape pick by pick.
09:25Hey, Nick, this is getting a little thin here.
09:27Hey, Nick, this, there hasn't been a guy at this position go in 30 picks.
09:30We're okay here.
09:31And again, he could probably do it without me, but I just try to, we try to feed him as
09:35much information
09:35as we can, just because that's our, that's our role on game day for lack of a better term.
09:39Here's that's the, that's the other part of about what the best player available is that
09:43like they move up and down and around all over the place.
09:46So like that just, it gets, I get really annoyed about the best player available discussion
09:50because every GM is never going to admit to ever, you know, trying to do anything based
09:56on need, because that's what stupid GMs do is they're overly concerned with trying to
09:59fill certain spots.
10:00They move the hell around all over the place and 100% at times it's because of which position
10:06is stronger in a certain area of the draft and not.
10:09They just, what, what, what Nick really wants to say is like, I'm not going to reach for
10:14a guy because we really need a, because we really need a defensive tackle.
10:19I'm not going to go up and, and way overdraft the guy just because we're desperate for it.
10:24But he, they do move around to try to get to those sweet spots with certain positions.
10:28That cut tickled me for that exact reason is that Lipford was going super deep on how
10:33they're viewing positions in the war room.
10:35And they're running over to Nick saying, Hey, we're getting a little thin at this position.
10:39Oh, don't worry.
10:39We still got 10 guys at this one and whatnot.
10:41And I'm thinking for a team that does best player available, why do you even care how thin
10:46the position groups are getting?
10:47And I'm at that point in the YouTube, they had started zooming in on whoever was answering
10:52the question.
10:53They had a wide shot for like the first half of it.
10:56And then like towards the middle part, they started like zooming in on Chris Blanco when
11:00he was answering and zooming in on James Lipford when he was answering his questions.
11:04And during that one, I'm just picturing Nick off to the left off camera, like doing the,
11:09like chopping the, like Ixnay on the position pay talk.
11:13But that is the thing though.
11:15It's that you are still, you're still drafting best player available.
11:18It's that you're just maneuvering around your, you're maneuvering around the draft to perhaps
11:23have those two things coincide where there's a position we'd like to draft, but we don't
11:28want to overdraft somebody.
11:29So like, let's, let's trade back maybe and see where we are when it all shakes out.
11:34Next one here from Nick Casario.
11:36We know that the Texans, they've been really good at drafting most positions.
11:40Offensive line has been very hit or miss.
11:43They've drafted one in the first two rounds, each of the last four drafts.
11:46I'd be surprised if they didn't draft one in the first or second round in this draft,
11:50especially considering they've got an extra second round pick.
11:54We know who they've been.
11:55Kenyon green trying to get back into football right now.
12:00Then juice grugs thrown into a trade for David Montgomery, Blake Fisher, who is not slated
12:06to start.
12:07And then Ariante Ursari, who I think everybody feels good about who, by the way, made the
12:11first shot at the Rockets game the other night for charity made his free throw.
12:16So that was good.
12:17I like when, I like when Texans step up and make the free throw.
12:19You look very nonplussed by this.
12:20I was very impressed with him making that free throw.
12:24Seth's like, get to the cut, please.
12:26No, no, no.
12:27Yeah, it's cool.
12:27Yeah.
12:28He made a free throw.
12:30So here's Nick Casario on evaluating offensive line prospects.
12:34Yeah.
12:34I'd say just generally speaking, the offensive line, it's probably one of the, I don't want
12:39to say one of the harder positions to evaluate.
12:41And I think a lot of times, and this is where you can use multiple checks and balances.
12:46So look, everybody watches the tape.
12:48A lot of the college systems are the college systems.
12:50A lot of the things that these players are going to be asked to do, there's, it's probably
12:53going to be a little bit different.
12:54What you see on tape, you know, the one thing, you know, not just the Houston Texans, but league
12:59wide.
13:00There's probably some benefit to the individual player workouts because you might be able to
13:04see something in a workout.
13:06Not sure if he really has it or you didn't see him do it on tape, that maybe you put
13:11him through the paces and say, you know what?
13:13He actually does this better than maybe we thought.
13:15And it's either a technique flaw, it's a body position flaw, or his ability to take coaching.
13:20I think that position, there's a certain level of instinctiveness, certain level of awareness,
13:24certain level of toughness, and to be able to take coaching and apply coaching.
13:28And we've seen multiple examples of players who didn't have an extensive history playing
13:32offensive line.
13:33Like Malata is a good example.
13:35Steven Neal is a good example.
13:36They basically played another sport, but they were coachable.
13:39They had the right mentality.
13:40They had the right mindset.
13:41Even going back to Mason, like unless the last time I checked, there's nobody that runs
13:45a triple option in NFL football.
13:47So other than Georgia Tech, now they're, they're, they don't run a triple option anymore, but
13:51okay.
13:51So you had to make a little bit of a projection while he's going to be able to actually do
13:56the
13:56things that are going to be required for an offensive lineman to have some success.
14:00So I would say it's a pretty nuanced position.
14:03Look, any end, you got to be smart.
14:04You got to be tough.
14:05You got to be physical.
14:06You got to be competitive.
14:08Like I would say, those are some non-negotiables.
14:10And then there's some technique things that either a coach is going to emphasize or that
14:14you're going to focus on within your system.
14:16And then I would say to a certain extent, you have to be able to extrapolate whether or
14:20not the player is going to be able to handle it or not.
14:22Long cut, but it's a good breakdown.
14:24And I feel like that was something Texan fans wanted to hear.
14:27Well, then the question was specifically was about Cole Popovich and how he influenced perhaps
14:33the draft process or the evaluation process.
14:37And that's where, if you guys can remember back to the previous viral video of Mike Vrabel
14:44before these photos emerged.
14:45Mike Vrabel working out with Max Iannachor, the offensive line prospect.
14:50The people, that was the first viral thing for Mike Vrabel this offseason.
14:55It was him working out and kind of doing a lot of that stuff of like getting a feel for
14:59how a guy moves, where his strengths and weaknesses are.
15:02There's a lot of things with offensive linemen and defensive linemen that you can get hands
15:06on in these workouts and get a feel for the guy in a way that you can't get from film
15:11or that maybe because of the scheme they ran, you can't quite tell.
15:15That's where hopefully Cole Popovich has been an asset.
15:19And maybe his workout with Ariante Urshry last year made him feel better about Ariante Urshry
15:24than they would have otherwise.
15:26And I think like Cole Popovich is, I just, I think there's a good chance that he's better
15:31at that type of stuff than Chris Strauss or the previous offensive line coach was.
15:34I think there's a really good chance that that's the case.
15:36Did Iannachor and Vrabel have their fingers intertwined at any point during the workout?
15:41No, I didn't see that part of the video yet.
15:43Did they hug at the end?
15:45Where they interlocked their fingers and smiled at each other?
15:47Yeah, that part didn't make it on the internet.
15:49The part where he was kind of pushing his shoulder and things like that, but I didn't see.
15:53They were never, you know what though, Sean?
15:55If you watch that video, you don't see anybody else around them.
15:59That's true.
15:59That was, they presented that unfairly because they didn't show all the other people that
16:03were in attendance.
16:04Right, Vrabel's like, I worked out four other offensive linemen that day.
16:07He's like, yeah, these are just cherry-picked photos.
16:09I was there with friends.
16:11Yes.
16:12Oh, man.
16:13We've got more Rossini, by the way, later in the show, believe it or not.
16:18All right, so that was Nick Casario on evaluating the offensive line prospects.
16:22I like that cut a lot.
16:24I thought that was good insight.
16:25The Shaq Mason part I thought was really interesting.
16:28Well, I like it just because hopefully Cole Popovich is a much better resource there.
16:35Because when he was the assistant offensive line coach, I'm guessing he didn't have as
16:39much of a say or be able to, you know, his word didn't carry as much weight.
16:43This is different now where he's the guy.
16:46He's the man.
16:46They've identified certain types of players in free agency that are different types of
16:51players than they had on the offensive line before.
16:53There's a much grittier, more physical run-blocking feel to this offensive line now.
17:00And, you know, I guess I would add Ed Ingram into that, too, for last year.
17:04Maybe Popovich saw something in Ed Ingram's run-blocking that he really liked, and that
17:09ended up being what Ed Ingram was really good at last year.
17:12And, yeah, anything they've got to do to do better at drafting offensive linemen, I'm for it.
17:18I thought Nick Casario was pretty transparent about where they're at with the tight end room
17:22right now.
17:23This was Nick Casario, and I think tight end is a position that they could definitely be
17:27targeting with their premium picks in the draft, especially after listening to this cut
17:31right here.
17:31Here's Nick on the tight end room.
17:33With our group, I mean, you know, we've got a lot of guys in some different categories.
17:37You know, Brevin's had a couple years here, unfortunately, where he's had some injuries,
17:40set him back.
17:41So, I mean, he's a player that we've liked having in the building.
17:43So, honestly, it's probably TBD with him a little bit.
17:46But he's a great kid.
17:47He's got a very good attitude.
17:47Look, he's been here working his tail off.
17:49So, I mean, he's got a great spirit.
17:51You know, everybody's rooting for Brevin.
17:53There's a little bit of an unknown there of what we actually have.
17:56All right, Cade has played decent football at different points.
17:59You know, he's going into kind of year three.
18:00So, there's certainly some areas that he can improve.
18:03Foster has played pretty good football at different points in his career, whether it's in Vegas
18:07or with the Saints.
18:08You know, Dalton's probably been our most consistent, you know, probably the most steady
18:12player that we've had at that position here over the last two to three years.
18:16You know, he had a career year.
18:18I mean, I think he would break the career or a single-season reception record.
18:22You know, broke Owen's record, unfortunately, who OD's a really good player.
18:25But, you know, so, you know, there's some question marks if we're just being real, you know.
18:29But, I mean, we think there's some players there that potentially can help us.
18:32So, what other opportunities that leads to in the draft?
18:35Like, we'll kind of see what that looks like.
18:37Yeah, it feels like it's Dalton Schultz, and then it's kind of an open audition after that for those guys.
18:41Yeah, I think that that's the spot, too, in the draft where a guy is going to have a real
18:49good chance
18:49to compete for playing time.
18:51And maybe, I think either, there's a really good chance Brevin Jordan or Cade Stover isn't on this roster
18:57by week one that it's a – and I would include –
19:00Or both if they draft somebody, you know.
19:02What's that?
19:03Or both if they draft somebody.
19:04Right, yeah, if they draft somebody, then there's a good chance that both of them are gone.
19:07Right.
19:08And I think they still see a lot of upside in Cade Stover.
19:11Brevin Jordan's a tough one because they already know what he can do.
19:14And he does fit a role on that team that's different from the current guys, what they can offer.
19:22But I just – do you trust that he's going to stay healthy?
19:25Do you trust that he's going to be there?
19:27He just – he's had a real rough stretch.
19:29Yeah, that was – dude, that was – we were in the bubble when that injury happened with him last
19:34year
19:34in the preseason.
19:35That was one of the more just gut-wrenching scenes that I've been part of since covering a team
19:41because he was – you could hear him.
19:43The injury took place all the way across the field in the back corner of the end zone on a
19:48contested catch.
19:50And he went down.
19:51Everybody's gathered around him.
19:52And you could just hear him wailing like it was like an animal got shot or something.
19:56I think if you look at the tight ends room right now, not to move so quickly beyond his wailing,
20:02but Foster Moreau I think is probably all but guaranteed a spot on the team
20:09just because he's a competent blocker.
20:12Yes.
20:12And if you draft a rookie, there's a very, very low chance he's going to be a competent blocker immediately,
20:18just tight ends being what they are these days.
20:20So I think they want to have at least one competent blocker in the tight end room that they can
20:25trust.
20:26That's where if they draft a rookie in the top three rounds especially,
20:29there's a real good chance that both Brevin Jordan and Cade Stover aren't on the active roster.
20:34Yeah, yeah.
20:35And maybe they try to bring one back on the practice squad.
20:37I, you know, there may be teams out there, especially with Stover who might still two years in,
20:42feel like there's something with him or whatever.
20:44And maybe they carry four tight ends.
20:45Who knows?
20:45But if I had to say Dalton Schultz, barring injury to any of these guys,
20:49I think Dalton Schultz is 100% to make the team.
20:51I agree with you about Foster Moreau.
20:54I think he's like 85% to 90% to make the team.
20:57And then I think if they draft a rookie, especially if they use a first or even like a second
21:01or third round pick on a rookie,
21:02I feel like that rookie is like 90%.
21:04If it's a first round, if it's Kenyon Sadiq, he's on the team.
21:06That's 100%.
21:08So now you really are starting to talk about Cade Stover and or Brevin Jordan only making the team
21:16if they go heavy at the tight end position, which they could, you know, which they could.
21:20And do you contribute on special teams and things like that?
21:22That factors in too.
21:23You still got Luke Lachey in the mix.
21:25You do.
21:25You do.
21:26He's a legacy.
21:27His old man was a hell of a football player back in the day.
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