- 1 day ago
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:00The computer system the Post Office spent an arm and a leg on is faulty.
00:04We're ready to mount and fund an independent review.
00:07Angela, nice to meet you.
00:09Here to help.
00:09We are hearing from Bob that your organization has been obstructive to his independent work.
00:15But this is about the reputation of the Post Office.
00:17You are the Chief Executive, so the buck stops with you.
00:23Blood on my hands now.
00:25I am told that people are walking out of their mediation meetings.
00:29Our lawyers advise that no mediation scheme has the power to overturn a criminal conviction.
00:34You have broken your words to Parliament.
00:36They say there's no remote access to branch accounts, but they're lying.
00:39There was a whole room full of us inside Fujitsu doing thousands of corrections on horizon while the Postmasters slept.
00:47It may be possible to raise the money to fight them in court, but only if there are enough of
00:51you.
00:51How many would you need?
00:53At least 500.
00:54I can do that.
01:05I can do that.
01:11I can do that.
01:11All right.
01:45Hard to believe it's eight years since our first meeting.
01:52Even harder to believe that finally 555 of us now ready to tell our stories to a court.
02:03I saw Fine and Dundee, Alan, but I was going to pay for it.
02:07Well, James is the expert.
02:11There are a few specialist funders who are prepared to take on this kind of risk.
02:16If we win, we pay them back out of your compensation.
02:21If we lose, please?
02:23Well, then they lose too. Their entire investment. It is high risk.
02:28Win or lose, it costs a fortune.
02:34And there's no guarantee we'll ever see a penny.
02:40And I want to make it clear that there are a few other things this group litigation is not going
02:47to do for us.
02:49I'm sorry, Joe.
02:52Sorry, Noel.
02:54But it's not going to overturn any criminal convictions.
02:59It's not going to discharge anyone's bankruptcies.
03:03One day.
03:03It's not going to get back any house repossessions and it's not going to repair anyone's shattered health.
03:11Or bring back those we've lost.
03:14Well, also, I've got to say, there's a few of us here who've not much faith in the law after
03:22everything that's happened.
03:24They believe in British justice. That's what they say.
03:28Well, I've told you all the things the law's not going to do for us.
03:34But I want you to think about what brought us together.
03:41All those things that we've been fighting for ever since.
03:46Compensation.
03:49Bigger than that.
03:51Justice.
03:52Bigger.
03:54The truth.
03:57Exactly.
03:59Yes, compensation.
04:02Yes, justice.
04:04But without the truth, we can't do either of those.
04:08Going to law will force the post office to open their files.
04:13So, finally, we'll get to know everything the post office knows.
04:21The truth.
04:22The whole truth.
04:27All those in favor.
04:31Motion carried.
04:48Yes, it's true that the post office will now have to give us everything they've got.
04:52But it's also true that in fights like this, the side with more money usually wins.
04:58Unless something extraordinary happens.
05:03Our whole case is something extraordinary.
05:05Yes, yes, it is.
05:07And what's very striking is how many people rang that helpline and were told, you're the only one.
05:17I asked to see if that phrase was in the helpline scripts and the post office said there are no
05:23scripts.
05:24Yeah, and anyone who's run a helpline knows they parrot a script, so it's clearly a lie.
05:28So what happened to the principle of give us everything you've got?
05:32Well, whatever we ask them to disclose, they either say the record doesn't exist, or it's not relevant, and whatever
05:38documents they do provide are often pretty much redacted to death.
05:43Yes, I get the sense that none of this is coming as news to Mr. Bates.
05:47Welcome to my world.
05:51The price of everything.
05:54I went looking for a dress, but all I could afford is a scarf.
05:57Yeah, love, love, listen to me.
06:01Did your mum tell you that she had a doctor's appointment?
06:04No.
06:08You'd better go and speak to her.
06:10She's inside.
06:18I got a new scarf for the court hearing.
06:21Do you want to see?
06:23I'm sorry, love.
06:25I know you don't need this.
06:29Don't need what?
06:32I got cancer, love.
06:34In a place I didn't even know was a place.
06:38Pancreas.
06:43Does it hurt?
06:46Well...
06:47Oh, God.
06:50The look on that doctor's face.
06:53It was me offering him the Kleenex.
06:58You wouldn't tell me how long I'd got, but well...
07:06Not long.
07:08Oh.
07:12Don't you worry about me.
07:14You've got your taste to think about.
07:16Oh, I don't care about any of that.
07:20Promise me on my life.
07:24You'll see it through.
07:27Promise me, Joe, you won't rest
07:31till the world sees
07:33the innocent fame I held in my arms.
07:38I promise.
07:41I promise.
07:42I promise, well.
07:51I'm sorry for your loss, Joe.
07:55Five days we had together.
07:58Five more days on this earth.
08:01And my lovely mum was gone.
08:03You really didn't need to come today.
08:06Yeah, I made her a promise.
08:09But she's not even buried yet,
08:11so don't ask me what just happened in there.
08:14Well, there could be five separate trials,
08:18but they're going to make us wait another year
08:20before they even start the first one.
08:24And you won't get called as a witness, Joe.
08:27They won't call anyone who's got a criminal conviction.
08:34Well, I'll still come every day to support you.
08:38Bates and others versus the post office.
08:42I'll be others.
08:44I told our lawyers, I said,
08:46all right, you can put my name on the tin if you want to,
08:49but that doesn't mean you have to put me in the witness box.
08:51Choose the best people.
08:53Alan, you are the best people.
09:00So, listen to this.
09:01Three years ago, Paula Venels wrote...
09:04Is it possible to access the system remotely or not?
09:08We are told it is.
09:10And Paula then asks her managers,
09:12what is the true answer?
09:15I need to say, no, it is not possible
09:18and that we are sure of this because of XXX.
09:21I need the facts.
09:23Wow, okay.
09:25That is an email of Paula's that arrived this morning
09:28in a disclosure bundle and it wasn't even redacted.
09:31Well, this is fundamental.
09:33If we can prove they have remote access to your computers,
09:34then, I mean, that means all the criminal convictions are unsafe.
09:37Look forward to hearing you ask her about that in court, Patrick.
09:41Unfortunately, the post office also sent across
09:44their final list of witnesses this morning
09:45and Paula Venels is not on it.
09:50Ha! Brilliant.
09:52What?
09:53What's she worried about?
09:55That is a very strange decision.
09:57Who are they putting up instead?
09:59Uh, the people's services director and...
10:02Angela van den Bogert.
10:03She had more job titles than hot dinners.
10:05She's like a stick of Blackpool rock with post office
10:07written all the way through.
10:10And she's a hard-faced cow.
10:12Excellent. Why don't you tell us how you really feel about her?
10:14Ha! Well, never mind.
10:16No, Alan, wait, wait, wait.
10:17There is a possibility that Patrick can still question Angela
10:20on remote access.
10:22Uh, where is it?
10:23This is from Angela's witness statement.
10:26Sub-postmasters are solely responsible for their branch accounts.
10:32There is no transaction that enters their accounts
10:35without their consent.
10:38Well, that's just not true.
10:41And we know a man who can prove it.
10:44Well, he would have whistleblower.
10:47He'd be right inside, looking at some postmaster's screen.
10:51You could tell if he was busy, you could see him selling his stamps.
10:54Remote access?
10:55Sometimes.
10:57Not often.
10:58Would go in using the postmaster's ID.
11:01Find the cause of his problems.
11:03Fix it.
11:04Come back out.
11:05He'd never even know.
11:07Well, so it would look like...
11:09Like he'd made the changes himself.
11:12Yeah.
11:14Richard, what if you couldn't fix it?
11:16What if you couldn't find a cause?
11:23I don't know.
11:25The postmaster took the blame.
11:29I can't remember much detail.
11:31And like I said to Alan, I'm not prepared to go to court
11:34or stick my neck out in any way whatsoever.
11:35Sure.
11:37Sure.
11:39No, no.
11:40It's not just that Richard is too shy to give evidence.
11:43He's got no evidence to give.
11:46No documents, no email.
11:49Alternatives?
11:49No, we really need him.
11:51He's still the only Fujitsu insider to ever come forward.
11:54I meant ties.
11:56Oh, er...
11:58Oh, maroon or maroon.
12:00Hmm.
12:05Oh, I'm not even going to ask.
12:08One thing I took from the select committee is it really helps to use your face.
12:12You know, confused, sceptical, amused.
12:17And that's your master plan for the group litigation.
12:20Make faces at the post office.
12:25555 sub-postmasters in our group.
12:29And I have to go on first.
12:34I do solemnly and sincerely and truly declare and affirm
12:39that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth,
12:44and nothing but the truth.
12:49Good morning, Mr Bates.
13:01Mr Bates, it would be right to say that in terms of due diligence, you are quite a careful man.
13:08Is that fair?
13:09You're a details man.
13:12Yes.
13:13At paragraph 15 of your witness statement, you refer to being sent an information sheet.
13:17The sub-postmaster is personally responsible for all losses or gains incurred to post office cash or stock.
13:30You were aware you would be responsible for that loss, however large it was.
13:34At the time we took over the post office, losses weren't a major concern.
13:41The original deficit of £1,182.
13:47That is a staff error, isn't it?
13:49No.
13:51No.
13:53That was definitely Horizon.
13:56From my point of view, without a shadow of a doubt.
13:59You got it in your mind it was Horizon and forevermore it has been Horizon.
14:03No.
14:04Well, it jumped out.
14:06The errors jumped out.
14:08There couldn't have been anything else.
14:10In fact, I put to you generally that the overwhelming likelihood is that these deficits were most likely caused by
14:17error or wrongdoing in your branch by you or your staff.
14:24That is the post office case.
14:29Mr. Bates, that is being put to you so that you can tell me what the answer is.
14:36No, my lord.
14:40No.
14:45No further questions.
14:48Thank you, Mr. Bates.
14:50You are excused.
14:52A details man.
14:53Might use that at home.
14:55Alan did okay, I think.
14:57Just so glad he went first.
15:01I took over Barkham post office when my husband died on the 3rd of August, 1999.
15:07So some 19 odd years ago.
15:11It's fair to say your memory of the details is probably pretty vague. Is that fair?
15:18No, I don't think so.
15:19Not particularly stunning events, are they? Like a car crash or something. Is that fair?
15:27If you are talking about August 1999, then yes, they are very similar to a car crash.
15:36You are talking about your husband's death?
15:40Yes.
15:43Yes.
15:44Yes, I accept that.
15:48Moving then forward to your suspension, following the £18,000 odd deficit found on the audit.
15:55Well, I was staggered that I was suspended. Absolutely staggered. I was probably as angry and upset as I have
16:03ever been in my life.
16:06Because for the last six months I had been asking post office to help me find the source for these
16:11alleged shortfalls in order that I could...
16:15How can I put it?
16:17That it would stop me from bombarding them with phone calls, letters.
16:21A lot of you might think, well, I've received this letter, let's look at my contract.
16:25Let's look at section 19, paragraph 4.
16:29And see whether they are entitled to.
16:32Well, I couldn't do that.
16:33I had no entry to my post office from the day they did the closing audit.
16:37They took the keys away and locked them up.
16:40But my point is you immediately blame it on horizon without really casting your mind as to other possibilities.
16:44I dispute that completely.
16:53I never used to be an angry person. And it really works, doesn't it?
16:58I wouldn't know, I don't get angry.
17:00Oh, well, I should give it a go, Alan. Otherwise the stress of all this might end up killing you.
17:05What? The post office chose three witnesses and we chose three witnesses.
17:11The post offices read 555 postmaster statements. Why'd they choose me?
17:17So they chose Mohammed Zabir because he has an accountancy qualification.
17:22So just watch them try to make him look stupid as well as dishonest.
17:26Do you accept from me that being involved over a period of years as an assistant accountant means that I
17:34can consider you as not commercially naive?
17:40I did not understand your question, please.
17:44Rephrase it, Mr. Wentworth.
17:46As at the time you applied to post office, yes, you were not commercially naive.
17:54My lord, English is not my first language.
17:57You had experience of commercial things.
18:01You weren't...
18:03This put me on the spot, trying to rephrase this.
18:05At that time, I was just thinking to buy the business, run it, make my life better and serve the
18:13community.
18:14This was my main ambition.
18:16So if I am clear, honest, so don't be afraid of signing any contract with anybody, assuming that they are
18:22doing everything for goodness of me.
18:24And I had already positive thinking about this.
18:27Okay, I think you would agree that a deficit of £4,878 is a serious matter. Do you agree with
18:35that?
18:35No, I didn't agree.
18:37I told them everything. What was the problem?
18:40Have you read all the documents which I submitted?
18:44I ran the post office helpline.
18:46Please, can somebody ring me or come to my office and resolve this problem?
18:50But they said, we don't believe you, we have to suspend you.
18:54I never thought that I would lose everything when I would be working in the post office.
19:03We are supposed to be the most civilised country.
19:06We don't expect anyone to behave like the post office does. Why do they do this?
19:09Well, that's the million dollar question.
19:12The QC was very clever.
19:15Picking away at stuff.
19:16You did everything right, Mohammed.
19:18You told the truth and that's all that matters.
19:21Truth is truth.
19:22Truth is truth.
19:24Can't hide it.
19:30Well, that was brilliant.
19:32They chose him and he smashed them.
19:34Just a pile of ash where the post office used to be.
19:38Well, we've got Angela van den Bogen in the witness box tomorrow.
19:42You get to ask the questions.
19:43I do.
19:44And I've got plenty.
19:47We get to see if we pick the right man for the job.
19:52OK.
19:55Miss van den Bogen, if we could please look at document G43 slash one.
19:59So this is co-authored by you.
20:02Horizon Help has since its introduction over a decade ago fallen short of delivering the functionality that was promised as
20:10part of Horizon rollout and that postmasters and their assistants desperately need.
20:16Yes.
20:18That is an honest and candid internal recognition of the situation, isn't it?
20:22There were shortcomings in the user experience.
20:27It's...
20:29It's clunky, would be the word I would use.
20:33Clunky?
20:33Mm-hmm.
20:35Right.
20:36So why don't you mention this in your witness statement?
20:45I don't...
20:49I suppose the length of my witness statement...
20:54Um...
20:54It's so long, anyway, that...
20:58Was it your understanding that there was a restriction on the length of your witness statement?
21:02The witness statement in itself is quite lengthy anyway.
21:06And so...
21:08I suppose it was just myself.
21:11Mr Green.
21:13If we could go, please, to document G38 forward slash two.
21:19So it's 30th of January 2015.
21:23Mrs Venels asks,
21:25Is it possible to access the system remotely?
21:28I need to say no, it is not possible, and that we are sure of this.
21:33So in 2015 it would be wrong to say, wouldn't it, that post office couldn't remotely access Horizon data.
21:42The post office can't.
21:45Could it do it through Fujitsu?
21:53Through Fujitsu?
22:00Yes, it can.
22:05Yes.
22:06Yes.
22:07You're going to have to keep your voice up, I'm afraid.
22:09Sorry.
22:11Sorry.
22:12I suggest you are hesitant to accept anything that is damaging to post office.
22:17That is not the case.
22:18Do you feel pressure to protect the post office brand now?
22:22At this particular moment?
22:24Yes.
22:25Now.
22:26Can I just ask one simple question?
22:29What exactly does protecting a brand mean?
22:33It just means that, um, one, it is making sure that how we do things, how we behave, how we
22:44interact with people.
22:47And it's, it's just making sure that at all times we are maintaining that.
22:54It's just making sure that we have to do things, how we do things, how we do things, how we
23:07do things, how we do things, how we do things.
23:18What is this person you can shake a stick at?
23:21Years and years.
23:24Still nobody in power hears a word we say.
23:29Who's brought this on?
23:32Your ears honours list.
23:34God's sake. Come on, turn it off details, ma'am. Come to bed.
23:37Paula Venles has got the CBE.
23:40Joking.
23:42Services to the post office.
23:48Always another trick up their sleeves.
23:54I'll see you up there.
24:00The post office now admit they do have remote access,
24:04but they insist it could never happen
24:06without the knowledge and permission of the sub-postmaster.
24:08Well, they're wrong. Of course they are.
24:11But it's 15 years ago, more.
24:15I can't remember the details.
24:19I can't help you, Alan. There must be someone else.
24:24It's not that bad.
24:26Honestly.
24:28And there'll be loads of other witnesses.
24:31I wasn't senior, Alan. Not at all.
24:37And my girlfriend really doesn't want me drawing attention to myself.
24:40Just have to talk to the judge.
24:43Ignore everyone else.
24:49You can really help us out here, Richard.
24:52And still be on for your tea.
24:56I'll only disappoint you.
25:00You'll be fine.
25:06Joe?
25:07Rob?
25:08What are you doing here?
25:09I wouldn't miss this for the world.
25:11Fujitsu technical support.
25:13Given Evans under oath.
25:16The guy's quite shy.
25:18Alan's worried about him.
25:20A real-life whistleblower.
25:22It's going to be dynamite, kid.
25:23Rob.
25:23Mr. Rowell, would you accept that your recollection of your time at Fujitsu is hazy?
25:33It is quite hazy.
25:36It could just be my perception of events from 15, 17 years ago.
25:43No.
25:44See, we're not saying that you were routinely encountering coding issues, are you?
25:48Bugs?
25:50No.
25:50You don't recall ever having encountered a bug that definitely caused a financial impact?
25:56I don't recall discovering one.
25:59No.
26:01I'm going to move on to remote access now, Mr. Rowell.
26:05My suggestion to you will be that you never, and would never, manually change a transaction line of data
26:11that a postmaster had keyed in?
26:14No.
26:15That is something we did as far as I remember it.
26:19But ultimately, the sub-postmaster would be able to see what Fujitsu had done. Is that true?
26:25Again, my understanding is that in certain circumstances, the data would be indis-
26:34Indistinguishable?
26:35Yes.
26:35Is that what you're trying to say?
26:37Yes, my lord.
26:39You couldn't tell the difference?
26:40No, you couldn't tell the difference.
26:50Remote access to the Horizon system at branch level was extensive.
26:55We had the ability to change data and change transaction information even while the postmaster was working.
27:03Without the postmaster being aware?
27:05Yes.
27:06That is my understanding.
27:09Your understanding?
27:11No.
27:13My recollection.
27:19Thought he was great in the end.
27:21I wonder if it's enough.
27:27I asked you a question, Bob, years ago when we first met.
27:31Bob, where did all the money go?
27:36£36,000 they took off me.
27:40I think, I can't prove it, Jo, not yet, but I will, that the money you gave them that they
27:47claimed you owed them hung around in some sort of suspense account for a while, while they failed to investigate.
27:57And after a couple of years, your money, everyone's money, it just showed up in their profits.
28:06My £36,000 that I didn't steal, that they actually stole off me, to pay off a debt that never
28:14existed, is in the post office profits.
28:21I just, I mean, are they just incompetent, Alan, or just evil?
28:29Eh.
28:30Well, you know, it comes the same thing in the end.
28:35Another one?
28:36Please.
28:37Definitely.
28:42The post office describes itself on its own website as the nation's most trusted brand.
28:50Well, as far as these claimants are concerned, this might be thought to be wholly wishful thinking.
28:57The post office witnesses give me the impression that they simply cannot allow themselves to consider the possibility that the
29:05post office may be wrong,
29:06as the consequences of doing so are too significant to contemplate.
29:12Angela van den Bogert did not always give me frank evidence.
29:17She sought to mislead me.
29:19Her judgement also seemed to be uniquely exercised to paint the post office in the most favourable light possible, regardless
29:27of the facts.
29:29Mr. Bates seemed to me to offer his evidence honestly, and has proved himself to be unreasonable, stubborn, and considerable
29:40irritant to the post office.
29:42He's got you to a T?
29:44Yeah, and the post office too. Oppressive, unfair, excess of secrecy, and, well, 180,000 other words just the same.
29:55Sorry, we've got to get back into court now.
29:58Why?
29:59Somebody's come on.
30:01Hold on, love.
30:03I just saw this five minutes ago.
30:05It's an application for me to recuse myself as being the managing judge in these proceedings.
30:11Mr. Wentworth, would you care to elaborate?
30:14The post office has asked the judge to sack himself on the grounds that he's clearly biased against the post
30:18office.
30:20Amazing. It's just the best date ever. It's like a gift from heaven.
30:24Proof they're desperate.
30:25Absolutely.
30:26I mean, in my world, Alan, the most catastrophic mistake you can make is to make unfounded allegations of bias
30:32against the judge.
30:33I mean, you just don't... I've never even...
30:36They're idiots.
30:37I bet it wasn't the lawyers who decided to do this. I bet it came from the post office boardroom.
30:43Oh, well, to be a fly on the wall, eh?
30:45Well, we're winning.
30:46Well, yes, but...
30:48Oh.
30:49I should have known there was a but coming over the hill.
30:53Well, the trial stops now.
30:56There'll be weeks, well, months of arguments to follow on whether we need a new judge.
31:03And it's a delay the post office can afford, but we can't.
31:07That's why they're doing this, to make us run out of money.
31:13Alan, we have run out of money.
31:20No.
31:22No, no.
31:24We can't stop now.
31:26No one's talking about stopping.
31:28Not at all.
31:31But it is time to start negotiating a settlement.
31:43I think you're forgetting.
31:44I've negotiated with this mob before, and people have died.
31:50Well, people are still dying.
31:53You know this, all right, but nobody else does.
31:55There's millions of people out there who've never heard of us, who don't know about the suicides and the ruined
32:03lives.
32:06God knows how many victims who are still too scared to come forward.
32:12I haven't spent 20 years battling these bastards to pack up now and give the post office license to start
32:20running amok and destroying lives.
32:22Once again.
32:24Well.
32:27Well, I've said enough.
32:32We have to win.
32:35Alan, we just did.
32:41This is what winning looks like.
32:44You're talking as though this is a defeat, and it's really not.
32:47This is just what happens towards the end of any litigation.
32:50We get around a table, and if we don't, and we lose in that arena, we lose everything we've achieved
32:55so far.
32:56And the clock sets back to zero.
32:58So, it's about knowing when to stop and when to negotiate.
33:06So, that's it. Give up now.
33:08No. No. We settle.
33:16Same thing.
33:35This is Vennels. Paula Vennels?
33:37Yes?
33:38Ned Foster, Daily Mail.
33:39Would you like to say anything to the postmasters who've been through such a long legal battle?
33:43No. I really find this unacceptable.
33:45Would you like to apologize to them?
33:46Will you just go away?
33:49So, you won't apologize to them?
33:51No, please. Go away.
33:52Well, can I confirm then, Mrs. Vennels, you're saying you will not apologize to the postmasters after everything that they've
33:58been through?
33:59After an epic legal battle during which the post office tried and failed to remove the judge, the sub-postmasters
34:05have won on almost every count.
34:07Their victory comes with a compensation package worth 58 million pounds.
34:13Well, you took them on and you won.
34:16And I cannot overstate enough quite the scale of this achievement.
34:21It is more than we could ever have dreamed of from the beginning.
34:23It is an absolutely astonishing victory.
34:27In my professional career, I have never seen anything quite like this.
34:31So, having said that, I do need to make you aware that inevitably there are legal fees and court costs
34:47and our obligations to our funders that will eat into that total.
34:51So, the amount that will be left after that to divide amongst yourselves as compensation will be in the region
35:04of 12 million pounds.
35:08Wait, 12 million between 555?
35:12That, that, that's, that's what, what, 20, 20 grand each?
35:16On, on average, yes.
35:1820,000 pounds.
35:19That, that, that, that, that won't touch the sides of what we've lost.
35:23Listen, I understand, but what you must remember is that today's settlement opens a, a lot of doors so that
35:30people with convictions can now use these judgements to help with their appeals going forward forever.
35:37So...
35:37Well, what about us?
35:38What about us?
35:39Well, what this also means is that those sub-postmasters who've been too scared to come forward up to now
35:47will be able to do so without fear.
35:54Friends, we did talk this over and over again, and we knew we might not see a penny, but we
36:05decided, we voted to go ahead.
36:10They got laid right.
36:21Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me!
36:29I've been in court every single day, and I saw us with my own eyes winning the most massive victory.
36:35And that's all down to Alan, and James, and Patrick, and their hard work.
36:44So could you just all stop it?
37:00Never gonna end, is it?
37:13I wouldn't mind, but our legal team worked for free a lot of the time, and none of them, not
37:19even the funders, took anything like the fees they were due.
37:22Well, anyway, it's not about money, is it?
37:24Well, it is. Partly. Mostly.
37:28You know what I mean. You won, Alan.
37:33You set out to prove Horizon is faulty, and you did it. You won.
37:39But everyone is still skint.
37:42Alan.
37:46Lee, I want to-
37:48We're not attacking you, Alan.
37:52Everyone can see you did your best.
37:57I mean that.
38:01Don't listen to the angry people. They're upset. Tired.
38:05I know. It's all right.
38:08Just remember, we'd be nowhere without you, Mr. Bates.
38:12You are a legend.
38:28There from the beginning.
38:30And you never wavered.
38:33Never.
38:34Not for all those long years.
38:38Just been a tower of strength and new ideas.
38:42Oh, am I embarrassing you?
38:46Listen.
38:48Joe.
38:51All this evidence the litigation has dug up.
38:54All the secrets coming out of the woodwork.
38:57Well, we got to the truth.
39:00It belongs to us now. Use it.
39:03Prove your innocence.
39:05Go to the Court of Appeal and show the world
39:08what a miscarriage of justice really looks like.
39:14All right, Alan.
39:23But...
39:24What are you gonna do?
39:27Oh, er...
39:28There's a pint of beer in Wales with my name on it.
39:44I think people are bitter.
39:47They're angry.
39:49And I get it. I do.
39:51I'm bitter. I'm angry.
39:53And I care about the money.
39:55Of course I do.
39:56I care about the home we should have had.
39:59The life we could have had.
40:01And...
40:03But I care about justice too.
40:05And you.
40:06Care about you.
40:08So don't you dare go blaming yourself.
40:10I don't.
40:12You have absolutely nothing to blame yourself for.
40:15And that's why I don't blame myself.
40:18Come on. Let's get home.
40:23I suppose I've never seen the point of getting angry, Suzanne.
40:28I treat it like a job, you know?
40:32Something I'd lift off the shelf and then put back after.
40:36Funnily enough, I don't really remember that part,
40:38the putting it back on the shelf part.
40:40More than seven days a week, 365 days a year part.
40:43And also, Alan, jobs are things that people are paid to do.
40:50Yeah, something went a bit wrong there.
40:55Not actually giving up at all, are you?
40:59Well...
41:01There's the small matter of everyone of the 555 getting their money back.
41:08And then there's the small matter of the right people holding up their hands to take the blame.
41:13What's the full of evidence?
41:15The British government.
41:18Why?
41:19Well, because the government is the one and only owner of the Goodship Post Office,
41:24which doesn't have a penny in its coffers owing to the fact it's spent it all fighting us.
41:30All of which means that in the end, Her Majesty's government is going to have to hold up its hands,
41:35accept responsibility for this fiasco, and pay us the compensation we deserve.
41:40When people say the government, they really mean taxpayer, but nobody would begrudge you.
41:45We established the truth in a court of law, James, and now I'm focusing on the 555 who need their
41:52lives putting back together.
41:54You don't give up, do you, you awkward sod?
41:56Well, someone's got to be.
42:00Alan, cast your mind back, if you will, to the summer of 2013.
42:07Bob was doing his review.
42:08And you were fighting me every inch of the way.
42:10I was right, though.
42:11And at the same time, the Post Office, in secret and at the highest level, were commissioning independent legal advice.
42:21This lawyer's report establishes beyond doubt that the Post Office lied to and were in contempt of Parliament.
42:30You were right.
42:31It also proves that all the time we were wading through Treacle trying to investigate,
42:37senior Post Office executives were shredding documents and failing to disclose that they knew there were unsafe convictions.
42:44Did Paula know?
42:46It's not possible to say with any certainty.
42:51I want to say that I am deeply sorry for those sub-postmasters who have suffered.
42:57I have read many of their stories, and they are harrowing.
43:02They are with me every day.
43:05I was and remain deeply disturbed by what has come to light.
43:10It is contrary to what I believe through my time as CEO of Post Office between 2012 and 2019.
43:21I wish to state for the record that I do not accept any personal criminal misconduct.
43:50This judgment concerns 42 men and women who were all prosecuted by their employer and convicted of crimes of dishonesty.
44:03Josephine Hamilton pleaded guilty to 14 counts of false accounting.
44:09There was no examination of the data for bugs, errors or defects.
44:16There was no proof of an actual loss as opposed to an horizon generated shortage.
44:25Even more alarming, Post Office Limited's own investigator had reported
44:29there was no evidence of theft.
44:34We conclude that Mrs. Hamilton's prosecution was unfair and an affront to justice.
44:41We allow her appeal.
44:44We quash her convictions.
44:48Notwithstanding his guilty plea, Noel Thomas' conviction is unsafe.
44:54We allow his appeal, his prosecution was unfair and an affront to justice.
45:01In the case of Susan Rutkin, we allow her appeal, her conviction is unsafe.
45:07Very sadly, three of the applicants, Julian Wilson, Peter Holmes and Donna Connor, have not lived to see the outcome
45:14of their appeals.
45:21The post office boss is going to prison too.
45:24No, no, no.
45:25I've been to jail.
45:26I know what it's like.
45:28It doesn't do any good.
45:31Put them in their pockets.
45:33Take their running off them.
45:34It's the only round in jail I understand.
45:37Good lad.
45:38New girl.
45:39You should have gone down for these appeals.
45:42It's not about me.
45:47Where's Jo?
45:49There she is.
45:52I don't know.
45:55We've waited so long for this day and some of us didn't make it.
45:59People have died, you know.
46:00And all we ever wanted was for the truth to come out and for someone to listen.
46:05It didn't have to be like this.
46:07All these good people, their lives in ruins.
46:10I mean, look at us.
46:11Do we look like criminals?
46:15Bob!
46:20Not just unfair, but look at this.
46:23An affront to justice.
46:25That's like twice as bad.
46:26No, that's a hundred times as bad.
46:28You were like lambs to the slurper made of...
46:31Idiots.
46:36And you.
46:42You make me cry, you're a bad master.
46:46Josephine Hamilton and others versus the post office.
46:50Look, Alan.
46:52Look what we did.
46:54Look what you did.
46:59Look what you did.
47:18It's jaw-droppingly significant.
47:20The judges have not only ruled that Joe and the others were wrongfully convicted, but even worse.
47:25That the post office decision to prosecute them was so wrong that it amounts to an affront to the conscience
47:30of the court.
47:31This has to be the widest miscarriage of justice in British legal history.
47:38hören rating from the history...
47:41Than a girl isalfordlyematised by FranceYpan
47:56let know if the jury of the jury has prisoner from theиллиon chop. jaws are
47:56of the committee banter to vote for speech institutions. Oh,
47:56your mn chemicals which is KO for Huawei could show the cheerleader overdic
48:00scarring of protectionals.ры may
48:01be able to justify the ICEs... Please stop
48:06giving over theural topics we
48:06for the timing of HIM is ×–×” for fun. Let's
48:13I know what you're thinking.
48:17Well, it's not over, is it?
48:20How about we just allow ourselves to enjoy it?
48:26OK.
48:46Alan?
48:47Just one email.
48:50Minister of Postal Affairs.
48:53The legal costs for our 555 claimants.
49:00Total now due, £46,843,853.
49:08Plus another month's interest at 8%.
49:13Mounts up.
49:14On what planet is the government going to pay our legal costs?
49:20They'll have to.
49:21They own the post office.
49:23Sole shareholder.
49:26The only one.
49:28The only one.
49:30Awkward enough to sit at his computer making trouble for 20 years.
49:3420 years so far.
49:42Just think of it as a hobby that got out of hand.
49:47LAUGHTER
49:47MUSIC PLAYS
Comments