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Short filmTranscript
00:1827-year-old Robert Ackermont had everything going for him.
00:21He had a master's degree, a good job, but then something went wrong,
00:25and now his father says his son has confessed to murdering three people.
00:30I don't believe it. It's hard to believe.
00:35He's been good. I've had no indications that anything was wrong with his life.
00:45It's just hard to comprehend what he did, and yet there's still love for him because he was my child.
00:58I can't turn. I can't turn it down.
01:25It brings the memories back of what took place in this spot.
01:31The last time I was here was ringing the police in 95 and showing them where Scott's body was
01:39because my son had told me what shaft he put Scott's body in.
01:46I remember everything that took place.
01:51When the body bag came up, there was the smell of death.
01:59The memories there always will be.
02:03But I feel I'm a strong person, and I was taken down to the weakest point in my life.
02:21Oh, yeah.
02:23Oh, shit.
03:01I bought this bar in 1997.
03:06I came to work here in 89.
03:09It's been good to me.
03:10Come to work every day, 8 o'clock in the morning, 7 days a week.
03:15Do most of the people, your regulars, do most of the people here know your story?
03:21When all of this happened with the murder and looking for him
03:27and people knowing that it was my son, they were shocked
03:32that how could Robert could have done this?
03:35They're in disbelief just like I was.
03:37They know him.
03:39But more so of how I felt about him, how he achieved so much,
03:44and then to have this tragedy.
03:47It was a relief to talk to them.
03:51It was, you could say, a therapy for me to get it off my chest
03:55rather than bottle it and think about it
03:57where a normal person wouldn't do what he did.
04:00And what his mindset is, when it came about, I don't have the answer.
04:06I was concerned when they arrested him that, what did I do wrong
04:10that made him become the person that murdered people?
04:15And even today, even though it's all done, you might say,
04:19you still wonder because there's no cut and dried answer.
04:48His mother had that picture taken on.
04:51He was a cute kid.
04:54You know, there were good moments, you know, the giggles and the laughter
04:58and, you know, I mean, still a baby.
05:03To look at the picture and think back when this took place,
05:10there's, I'll say there's not much thought
05:13other than the future part of what could have been that went wrong.
05:24When Robert was born and you seen him and you held him and the baby,
05:31well, being a father kicks in and, yeah, you had love for your child.
05:35You wanted to be the father and then we planned the next child
05:43because we wanted them close together.
06:02As a young child, him and his brother would go with me up to the ranch.
06:07They'd play together.
06:10If they worked with me, they'd both work until they got bored
06:13and then they'd do what kids do.
06:16You know, they'd play ball together and run and hide and stuff like that.
06:23To me, between Robert and Kenny, Kenny was a little more rebellious,
06:29especially down with his mother.
06:31I'll say he was a hell raiser,
06:34but it's just between the two of them, Robert, he was a strong one.
06:38To look at him, if you were there,
06:41you're just a nice, easygoing kid with no problems
06:44and just a child that you were proud to have
06:47because there were no issues.
07:03Robert was, they say, upset living with his mother.
07:08He didn't want to live with her no more.
07:10So I get the phone call,
07:12and he wants to come live with us.
07:14He was just a young teenager, even though he's 12 years old.
07:19You know, I was happy that he wanted to come live with us.
07:22We didn't have issues with him.
07:33I feel Robert stood out
07:35because he was a smart kid in school, his grades.
07:41It's just everything he did was a positive
07:44that when he was with my wife and I.
07:49He just didn't get in trouble.
07:52He'd go in his room to study,
07:54and when I went in to check on him
07:56and see if he needed help or nothing,
07:58he seemed to know what was going on.
08:00You know, later in life,
08:03he got a computer and taught himself the computer,
08:06got the books and learned it
08:07and made programs out of it.
08:08He was that smart.
08:11Nobody recognized that he was a genius.
08:13Well, in hindsight, I could look at it and say,
08:15you know what?
08:16He was a genius.
08:17He was that smart of a kid.
08:19Not smart-alecky.
08:20He was just a smart, intelligent person.
08:22But you didn't see it.
08:24I could say no more than he was a good kid
08:26that I put up on a pedestal.
08:44I wanted to take the chemistry set back
08:47because it wasn't right to steal it.
08:49It's not the right thing to do.
08:51And I felt by making him take it back,
08:53it would bestow in him that you don't steal.
08:57I called out, talked to the principal,
09:00and I said, I want you to do something about it.
09:02Put the fear of God in it.
09:04So the principal talked with him.
09:07He threatened, you know, the police,
09:10but he was going to let it go this time.
09:12But I had hoped that it put some sort of fear into him
09:16that you don't do it.
09:17I had no reason to think that he was a bad kid.
09:22Growing up, I learned what was right and wrong,
09:25and you think that you're teaching it to your kids.
09:29You discipline them for things that they're doing bad
09:31and let them know that they can't do that.
09:33So I felt that in that sense,
09:36I was letting them know the difference
09:39between right and wrong.
09:42The reason I brought up these issues of the chemistry set,
09:46I'm looking for answers of why did you do what you did
09:49doing these crimes?
09:50You feel like you did something
09:52in order to make your son do what he did.
09:55You know, it's just the whole thing is sad, everything.
10:06The ranch, it's a home away from home.
10:09It's peace of mind.
10:12It's hard to describe just how much it does mean to me.
10:16With my son bringing Scott up
10:18and disposing of him the way that he did,
10:20he put a cloud, a shadow on this place
10:24and all the families involved in the harm that he caused them.
10:41What's in this box?
10:44Newspaper clippings that people have given to me,
10:48some of the Stockton records that I've clipped out,
10:51and this article that I was given about a,
10:55I believe it was a father turned his son in.
11:00I got phone records of my son
11:02during the time that he was going back and forth
11:06with Scott's body to bring him up here
11:09and dump him in the mineshaft.
11:12My wife and I sat down and put together on a calendar
11:16his movements and phone calls that's in here.
11:19The police had access to that.
11:22When I got started to dig through this box
11:25to get the articles and let you know what I had,
11:30it brings up what had happened 30 years ago.
11:35It reminds you of all the bad.
11:39There was no good in this.
11:40You felt bad.
11:42You feel sad.
11:43It brings out the anger again.
11:46In some cases, the doubt.
11:48What's the truth?
11:49What isn't the truth?
11:51It brings back up.
11:52Where's the closure?
11:53What's the answer?
11:55That...
11:57Why?
12:00But I hang on to it.
12:02I ought to burn it,
12:03but I don't wish to.
12:19That's Robert at graduation,
12:21and he was a Valley Victorian and gave a speech.
12:27But there again,
12:29Robert was a smart person that achieved things,
12:33and this is one of those examples.
12:39I feel Robert was a confident person.
12:42I don't know that he had to get up anywhere to give a speech.
12:46He was the dominant person.
12:49When he was with his friends,
12:50he was the one that was in charge.
12:53They looked up to him,
12:54and it's sort of like they were the followers,
12:56and he was the leader.
13:10After Robert graduated,
13:12he went to work for Roadway Trucking down south.
13:17Roadway is a major trucking company
13:20that delivered freight to different businesses,
13:23but he was in charge
13:25over several truck terminal managers.
13:28The impression I got from him was
13:29he was happy with his job,
13:32everything's going well,
13:34and then one day,
13:35I find out that he quit.
13:43He tells me he was working on a software program
13:46that had to do with trucking,
13:48and that if he had stayed with Roadway,
13:52they would have claimed it to be their property
13:54because he invented it
13:57while he was working for Roadway.
14:00Everything that he accomplished,
14:02the sky is the limit.
14:03You figure he was going places,
14:05it's going to be very successful.
14:26He stopped by, came in and visited.
14:28When it was time for him to leave,
14:30he said,
14:30I want to show you something.
14:32So he went to his car,
14:34and he got the little handgun.
14:35That was a .25, I believe is what it was.
14:41The only thing I knew Robert owning other guns
14:44was a pellet gun that I bought him.
14:47I took it, and I looked at it.
14:49I said, that's nice.
14:49I gave it back to him.
14:50I said, just be careful.
14:52Then he got in his car, and he left.
14:54But again, when all this happened,
14:57I remember that day,
14:59him showing me the gun.
15:01And to this day,
15:01I remember that whole scene,
15:04and I just felt like that meant trouble.
15:07And yet, I had no idea what type of trouble.
15:12It just felt wrong.
15:14Yeah.
15:15Not, why would he have it?
15:17I don't know.
15:18It wasn't the right hindsight.
15:20Looking back, it's like,
15:21you know, something's going to happen,
15:23and that's what I felt that day.
15:25Better than know what.
15:45I was hitting bar in the morning.
15:48I believe it was not long after the bar open
15:52that he'd come walking through the door.
15:55It was very weird for him just to show up unannounced.
15:58He always called in advance and said,
16:01hey, I'm coming up for whatever reason.
16:03Are you going to be up at the ranch,
16:04or are you going to be home?
16:06And you see him, and say, oh, what are you doing?
16:09And while I come by to see you and let you know,
16:11I was up at the ranch.
16:13I don't remember hugging him that day,
16:15but he looked dirty.
16:17He just didn't smell bad.
16:19He stunk.
16:21And in hindsight, having been around dead people,
16:26that's, to me, is what he smelled like.
16:28But at the time, you don't say,
16:30God, you smell like a dead person.
16:32And I asked if he was hungry, and yeah.
16:36So he went down and got a small pizza.
16:38We ate it.
16:39And he says, well, I'm going to go home.
16:41I said, okay.
16:42And he left.
16:45There was nothing to think anything else
16:49than what he told me,
16:50that he had gone up the ranch and came out.
16:57About two months later,
16:59my father had a heart attack.
17:01I drove him to the hospital.
17:03He was in a room when I get the phone call.
17:07Hello?
17:08And it was my younger son, Kenny,
17:10telling me that they were looking for Robert
17:14because he killed somebody.
17:16And I said, wait a minute, what?
17:18He says, they're looking for Robert
17:20because he killed somebody.
17:22While he's telling me that,
17:25I'm not putting two to two together.
17:27It was hard to digest and realize
17:31that he was actually talking about Robert.
17:33He was the angel.
17:34He was the one that didn't do no wrong.
17:36You're thinking that there was a mistake,
17:39that this can't be true.
17:41You know, you're in disbelief
17:42that even we're talking about this,
17:45it just couldn't happen.
17:53I've got 30 years since it happened.
17:58And it's like out of sight, out of mind,
18:00but there's still stuff that reminds you.
18:03I've never known anybody
18:05that a family member or a child of theirs
18:08has ever murdered anybody.
18:11When the murders happened
18:13and that person that did the murders
18:15was my son, Robert,
18:17there was a moment in there
18:20that I wished we never had him.
18:26Robert was a good kid.
18:28He's never done anything that I'd be ashamed of.
18:31This is the only thing in his life
18:34that I know of
18:37that has affected me
18:40to the degree that I was ashamed
18:43to be his father.
18:46I believe that people can do evil things,
18:50but with Robert,
18:51I never saw the evil
18:52until all of this came about.
19:16Police all over the West
19:18had been looking
19:18for 28-year-old Robert Akramont.
19:20Akramont was wanted by police
19:22in Medford, Oregon
19:23for the murders of Roxanne Ellis
19:24and Michelle Abdull,
19:25real estate women
19:26and lesbian activists
19:27whose bodies were found
19:29in the bed of Ellis' truck.
19:30Akramont also killed a Visalia man,
19:32a man who was last seen
19:34with Akramont two months ago.
19:49When I saw the U-Haul,
19:51I said,
19:52it's got to be Robert.
19:54And with that thought,
19:55it was if I go in the house
19:57with my gun,
19:58it's like,
19:59do you go in with a gun drawn
20:00because you're capturing somebody?
20:02Do you go in with your gun
20:05and he hears the door
20:07and he pulls his gun out
20:09not knowing who's there?
20:12This goes through your head.
20:13The last thing I wanted to do
20:15was shoot my son
20:16or possibly both of us get shot.
20:23So I just drove past,
20:24went on around the block.
20:38I never thought about helping him get away.
20:40Once it was there,
20:42it's like you wanted to catch him
20:44because you want to know why.
20:46And he didn't want him to do harm
20:48to anybody else.
20:49So those are my thoughts,
20:51is, you know,
20:52he needs to be caught.
20:54I had the choice.
20:55I could have aided and vetted
20:57and, you know,
20:58get out of town,
21:00but it wasn't easy.
21:02And we fall back
21:04to that right and wrong
21:05of growing up.
21:06And it was wrong
21:07in what he did.
21:10Then I chose to use the phone
21:12and call the police.
21:14That's probably the hardest
21:15thing I ever did.
21:17Yeah.
21:19Some people would say
21:20I didn't love him
21:21because I turned him in.
21:23And that's wrong.
21:24I loved him
21:25and I was worried about
21:26other people dying
21:27for no reason.
21:29It's just not the right thing.
21:31So I had to put a stop to it.
21:49Police arrested Akramont
21:50early this morning
21:51after a family member
21:52tipped police
21:53that he was in the area.
21:54They even had the license number
21:56of the U-Haul truck
21:57he was driving.
21:58Sir, did you commit
21:58these murders?
22:00Bob Wocken will tell us.
22:05At the time
22:06all this was coming to light
22:09is you don't think about
22:11here's my son
22:12I've had so high
22:13and now I'm down
22:15at the bottom.
22:16You're dealing with
22:18this in disbelief.
22:23You don't want to believe it.
22:25Everything I learned
22:26that was going on
22:27in his life
22:28was the first time
22:29when these murders occurred.
22:31I learned that he was
22:32in debt.
22:33Took a while
22:34but found out
22:35he was in debt
22:36over $100,000
22:37on credit card.
22:38His business failed
22:39when he did the software
22:41made the software
22:42with the trucking
22:42and it failed.
22:43I had to believe
22:44he killed for money.
22:58They just lowered
22:59a second rescue worker
23:01down the shaft
23:02to help recover
23:03a body.
23:06It bothers you
23:07that he brought
23:08Scott's body up
23:09and dumped him
23:10down the mine shaft
23:10on the ranch property.
23:12That bothers you.
23:13You know
23:13and again
23:14every time you go up there
23:16you see the mine shaft
23:17and you can't help
23:18but think about
23:19what took place.
23:27I wanted to
23:28talk to Robert
23:29what's going on
23:30why is it going on
23:31what did you do
23:32why did you do it
23:33I mean a bunch of questions.
23:46I think that the police
23:48might have told them
23:49that I told them
23:51that he was in the U-Haul
23:52so I turned him in
23:54because that was a question
23:55that he asked me
23:58did you turn me in
24:00and I said
24:01yes I did.
24:03He said
24:03I will F your life up
24:07and I think that was
24:08the end of the conversation.
24:13and then after that
24:14that's when all the
24:15bad letters
24:15started coming out.
24:19He sent
24:19Stockton Ricker
24:20a letter.
24:22Well
24:22I got my mail
24:23the Stockton Ricker
24:24got theirs
24:26they just said
24:27as a child
24:27he was molested.
24:30If you think
24:31of it sexually
24:31he wrote it down.
24:37that he was going
24:38to F my life up
24:42and then
24:42I got phone calls
24:44from
24:45Medford police
24:46Stockton police
24:48Visalia police
24:49I got phone calls
24:50from Hawaii
24:51I got phone calls
24:52from New York
24:52wanting to know
24:53if I molested my son.
25:06That's the letter
25:07he wrote
25:08to the Stockton record.
25:11Yeah.
25:15My earliest moments
25:16were during 5-6
25:17when my father
25:18Ken Akinah began
25:19following me sexually.
25:21This stress
25:22led to bedwetting
25:23which also drew punishment
25:24severe beatings
25:26with a ruler
25:27and being stood
25:28in front of the living
25:29room window
25:30naked
25:30all day
25:31for all to see.
25:35He was trying
25:36to destroy my life
25:37because he felt
25:38that I destroyed his.
25:41He was upset
25:42I understand
25:42that part of it.
25:44Did I give it
25:44any thought
25:45that he would
25:45go this route?
25:46Nope.
25:47But when he sent
25:48me the letter
25:49he also sent
25:50a letter
25:51to the Stockton record
25:53explaining
25:54what
25:56I did to him
25:57his stepmom
25:58did to him
25:59what we forced
26:00him to do.
26:01He accused
26:02me
26:03sodomizing him
26:04him having
26:05sex with
26:06my wife
26:07being forced
26:08to watch
26:09porno movies
26:10him being
26:11forced
26:11to watch
26:12his dog
26:13have sex
26:13with my wife
26:15I took it as
26:17I'm writing this
26:19to hurt you
26:19not for any
26:21other reason
26:21because he
26:22wanted to get
26:23under my skin
26:24he wanted me
26:24to feel guilty
26:26it comes down
26:27to believe
26:27it or not
26:28I know
26:29it took place
26:29and I know
26:30it never happened
26:32not a lot
26:33of people
26:33said anything
26:34about it
26:34other than
26:35how could
26:36he do that
26:36to you
26:38I was mad
26:39I was angry
26:41I think
26:41I wanted to kill
26:42him
26:42I was so
26:43pissed at him
26:44everybody asked
26:45me if it was
26:45true
26:46and all I can
26:47tell was
26:47no it's not
26:48true
26:49again
26:50he was hurt
26:51he wanted
26:52hurt back
26:58I think any
27:00parent
27:00that has to
27:02go through
27:03what I've
27:05gone through
27:05you have to
27:06wonder
27:08was it
27:09something I
27:09did
27:11why would
27:11he write
27:12letters
27:13because it's
27:14not how he
27:15was brought
27:15up
27:16and where
27:16he went
27:17wrong
27:17I have
27:17no idea
27:19so now
27:19it doesn't
27:20make sense
27:20to me
27:21why are you
27:21killing
27:22people
27:24I didn't
27:25look at it
27:26like you're
27:26a killer
27:27you're my
27:27son and I
27:28want to
27:28know why
27:29what have
27:30I done
27:30what happened
27:32and you
27:32don't know
27:33you know
27:35at first
27:36I'm taking
27:37the blame
27:37I'm trying
27:38to figure
27:38out what
27:39I did
27:40and everybody
27:41has told me
27:41you didn't
27:42do nothing
27:42and I
27:43realized
27:43I didn't
27:44do nothing
27:44there was
27:45a point
27:45there
27:45I felt
27:46like I
27:46did
27:46something
27:47to the
27:48point
27:48of breaking
27:48down
27:51I felt
27:52like taking
27:52my life
27:53I didn't
27:54tell nobody
27:57but
27:58that's just
27:59how
28:00wrapped up
28:00you get
28:01that
28:03can't deal
28:03with it
28:04end it
28:17I said I
28:18wasn't going
28:18to do this
28:18to you
28:23it's not
28:23me
28:38I wanted
28:39to say
28:40something
28:40to him
28:41I wanted
28:41to say
28:41it in
28:42person
28:42to him
28:42I felt
28:43that I
28:44had to
28:46I
28:46couldn't
28:47turn
28:48say in
28:48the court
28:49at a time
28:50and plead
28:51for his
28:51life
28:51in this
28:52case
28:53here
28:53I
28:54didn't
28:54run
28:54from
28:54the
28:54problem
28:55I
28:55dealt
28:55with
28:56the
28:56problem
28:56of
28:57turning
28:57him
28:58in
28:58that
28:58was
28:58the
28:58problem
28:59of
28:59turning
29:00him
29:00in
29:00to
29:00stop
29:00him
29:00from
29:01murdering
29:01people
29:02I
29:03believed
29:03the eye
29:04for an
29:04eye
29:04I
29:04believed
29:05in
29:05the
29:05death
29:05penalty
29:06and
29:06I
29:07couldn't
29:08beg
29:08for
29:08his
29:08life
29:09because
29:09that's
29:10not
29:10me
29:14the
29:14day I
29:14got up
29:15to read
29:15it
29:15I
29:15was
29:16very
29:16nervous
29:17it
29:18was
29:18hard
29:19to
29:20stand
29:20there
29:21and
29:21read
29:21a
29:21letter
29:23knowing
29:23that
29:24your
29:24son
29:24was
29:24going
29:25to
29:25get
29:25the
29:25death
29:25penalty
29:34first
29:35I'd
29:36like
29:36to
29:36say
29:37to
29:37the
29:37George
29:37family
29:38along
29:39with
29:39the
29:39Ellis
29:40and
29:40Abdel
29:41families
29:43how
29:43sorry
29:44I
29:44am
29:44for
29:45the
29:46horrendous
29:46crimes
29:46my
29:47son
29:47committed
29:48against
29:49your
29:49families
29:49and
29:50loved
29:50ones
29:50Robert
29:51I've
29:52never
29:52told
29:52you
29:53how
29:53deeply
29:53you
29:54have
29:54hurt
29:54your
29:54mother
29:55brother
29:55myself
29:56and
29:57so
29:57many
29:57other
29:58people
29:58you
29:59can't
29:59even
29:59count
30:00them
30:00the
30:01day
30:01I
30:02learned
30:02and
30:03knew
30:03you
30:04committed
30:04these
30:04crimes
30:05my
30:06heart
30:06was
30:07torn
30:07from
30:07my
30:07chest
30:08all
30:09the
30:09hopes
30:09and
30:09dreams
30:10as a
30:10father
30:11as
30:12for
30:12his
30:14son
30:14were
30:15gone
30:15I
30:16am
30:17still
30:17your
30:17father
30:17so
30:18I
30:19will
30:19be
30:19here
30:19for
30:19you
30:20I
30:21only
30:22hope
30:22you
30:23could
30:23be
30:23put
30:24to
30:24death
30:24for
30:25the
30:25crimes
30:25you
30:25committed
30:26that
30:27I
30:27would
30:27have
30:27passed
30:28before
30:28for
30:30this
30:30would
30:30only
30:30be
30:36for
30:37this
30:37would
30:38only
30:38be
30:39a
30:40double
30:40stabbed
30:41in
30:41my
30:41heart
30:43Robert
30:43you
30:44were
30:44my
30:44number
30:45one
30:45son
30:45I
30:46held
30:46you
30:47so
30:47high
30:47you
30:48achieved
30:49so
30:49much
30:49in
30:49life
30:50and
30:50threw
30:50it
30:51away
30:52for
30:53only
30:53through
30:53our
30:53Lord
30:54can
30:55your
30:55soul
30:55be
30:56saved
30:56for
30:56the
30:56crimes
30:57you
30:57committed
30:57against
30:58other
30:59humans
31:00I
31:01will
31:01always
31:01love
31:01you
31:10that
31:10was
31:10tough
31:11that
31:11day
31:11to
31:12have
31:12to
31:12do
31:13that
31:13but
31:14I
31:14said
31:14it
31:15and
31:18I
31:18felt
31:18better
31:19after
31:19saying
31:29it
31:29I
31:30wanted
31:30him
31:30to
31:31die
31:31in
31:31a
31:31sense
31:31because
31:32he
31:33murdered
31:33people
31:34I
31:34told
31:35everybody
31:36I
31:36am
31:37for
31:37the
31:37death
31:37penalty
31:39he's
31:40just
31:40not
31:40that
31:40person
31:40out
31:41killing
31:42people
31:42just
31:42to
31:42be
31:42killing
31:43them
31:43he
31:43killed
31:44for
31:44money
31:44but
31:44it
31:44was
31:45wrong
31:45and
31:46if
31:46he
31:46ended
31:47life
31:47in
31:47prison
31:47that's
31:48one
31:48thing
31:48if
31:49he
31:49got
31:49the
31:49death
31:49penalty
31:50that
31:50was
31:50another
31:50and
31:51there's
31:51nothing
31:51I
31:52could
31:52do
31:52about
31:52it
31:52and
31:53I
31:53wasn't
31:54going
31:55to
31:55go
31:56beg
31:56for
31:56it
31:57I'm
31:57sure
31:58he
31:58thought
31:58I
31:58should
31:59be
31:59on
31:59his
32:00side
32:00help
32:00him
32:00out
32:01do
32:01what
32:01I
32:01could
32:02but
32:03he
32:03did
32:03it
32:03to
32:03himself
32:12yep
32:13that's
32:13him
32:13if
32:13you
32:14look
32:14at
32:14the
32:14other
32:14pictures
32:14he's
32:15put
32:15on
32:15an
32:15awful
32:15lot
32:15of
32:16weight
32:17one
32:18of
32:18the
32:18officers
32:18in
32:19the
32:19prison
32:19took
32:20the
32:20pictures
32:21so
32:21he's
32:21on
32:21one
32:22side
32:22of
32:22the
32:22glass
32:22I'm
32:22on
32:22the
32:23other
32:25once
32:25the
32:26trials
32:26were
32:26over
32:27and he
32:27was
32:28in
32:28Oregon
32:29prison
32:29Salem
32:31a period
32:31of time
32:32went by
32:32and I
32:33had
32:33this
32:34urge
32:35I
32:35just
32:35had
32:36to
32:36see
32:36him
32:37that's
32:37when
32:38I
32:38went up
32:38and talked
32:38to
32:38him
32:39and
32:40to
32:41me
32:41it's
32:41like
32:41having
32:42a ghost
32:43I mean
32:43it was
32:43a driving
32:44force
32:45nothing
32:46was going
32:46to hold
32:46me back
32:47I had
32:47to go
32:47see him
32:48it was
32:49something
32:49in me
32:49I
32:50couldn't
32:50let go
32:54and I
32:54wanted
32:54answers
32:55they were
32:56just a
32:56feeling
32:57like a
32:58drive
32:58that I
32:59needed
33:00to see
33:00my son
33:02and not
33:02for any
33:03particular
33:03reason
33:03not to
33:04apologize
33:04for anything
33:05I've said
33:05or done
33:06or how
33:07I ever
33:07treated
33:07him in
33:11life
33:12I
33:12just
33:12needed
33:13to
33:13see
33:13him
33:13you know
33:15if the
33:15window
33:16wasn't
33:16there
33:18and
33:19you
33:19were
33:19meeting
33:19in
33:20that
33:20same
33:20room
33:21I
33:22on my
33:22part
33:23I
33:23would
33:24have
33:24hugged
33:24him
33:25I
33:25don't
33:25know
33:26if
33:26he
33:26would
33:26have
33:26wanted
33:26it
33:33got
33:34in
33:34to
33:34see
33:34him
33:34and
33:35that
33:36last
33:36about
33:3615
33:37minutes
33:37I
33:37wanted
33:38to
33:38leave
33:38because
33:39I'm
33:40going
33:40to
33:40use
33:40the
33:41mental
33:41state
33:41that
33:42he
33:42was
33:42in
33:42I
33:43don't
33:43know
33:43if
33:43he
33:43was
33:43putting
33:44on
33:44a
33:44show
33:45or
33:45he
33:45was
33:46actually
33:46falling
33:47apart
33:47mentally
33:48and
33:49he
33:49started
33:49to
33:49go
33:50off
33:50the
33:50edge
33:52and
33:52talk
33:52about
33:53people
33:54behind
33:55the
33:55wall
33:55and
33:56that
33:56they're
33:57listening
33:57and
33:58they
33:58know
33:58what
33:58you're
33:59going
33:59to
33:59say
34:00before
34:00you
34:00say
34:00it
34:01and
34:02I'm
34:02thinking
34:02where's
34:03this
34:03crap
34:03coming
34:07well
34:07this
34:07isn't
34:08the
34:08person
34:08I
34:08come
34:08to
34:08see
34:09and
34:09I
34:09can't
34:09stand
34:09this
34:10that's
34:10all
34:10he's
34:10talking
34:11about
34:11I
34:12wanted
34:12to
34:12leave
34:15after
34:15that
34:15visit
34:16was
34:16the
34:16last
34:16time
34:16I
34:17spoke
34:17with
34:17him
34:29when
34:31Robert
34:31died
34:31in
34:32prison
34:32I
34:32came
34:33and
34:33placed
34:33Robert
34:34here
34:34in
34:35the
34:35grave
34:35in
34:36my
34:36plot
34:37my
34:37family
34:38put
34:38him
34:40he's
34:41part
34:41of
34:41the
34:41family
34:42still
34:43I
34:43haven't
34:44abandoned
34:44him
34:44I
34:45put
34:45flowers
34:46on
34:47every
34:47year
34:47on
34:48him
34:51I
34:52put
34:52flowers
34:53on
34:53his
34:53grave
34:53because
34:53Robert
34:54is
34:54still
34:54my
34:54son
34:54regardless
34:55of
34:55what
34:55he
34:55did
34:58to
34:59learn
34:59the
34:59things
34:59that
35:00he
35:00did
35:00I
35:00don't
35:01look
35:01at
35:01it
35:01as
35:01you're
35:02tearing
35:02him
35:02down
35:02off
35:02that
35:02pedestal
35:03I
35:03had
35:03him
35:03on
35:04he's
35:04already
35:04fallen
35:05but
35:06still
35:06care
35:06an
35:06awful
35:07lot
35:07about
35:07him
35:09it
35:10is
35:10difficult
35:11even though
35:12he's
35:12dead
35:12it's
35:13difficult
35:13to
35:15wipe
35:15him
35:15out
35:15of
35:15your
35:16mind
35:16that
35:17he
35:17never
35:17was
35:18there
35:18because
35:19he
35:19was
35:19there
35:19and
35:20I
35:20was
35:20proud
35:20of
35:20that
35:20person
35:23I
35:24do
35:24believe
35:24in
35:25heaven
35:25hell
35:25and
35:25there
35:25has
35:26to
35:26be
35:26a
35:26God
35:26that
35:26created
35:27all
35:27this
35:28everybody
35:28would
35:29hope
35:29that
35:30they're
35:30members
35:30in
35:30heaven
35:31I
35:31hope
35:31he's
35:31there
35:31but
35:32that's
35:32not
35:33my
35:33choice
35:34if
35:35there's
35:35a
35:35God
35:35and
35:36I
35:36believe
35:36there's
35:36got
35:36to
35:37be
35:37somebody
35:37higher
35:37than
35:37me
35:38that's
35:38created
35:38all
35:38this
35:40then
35:41you'll
35:41answer
35:41to
35:41him
35:56I'll
35:56say
35:56I
35:56think
35:57about
35:57it
35:57all
35:57the
35:57time
35:58but
35:58not
35:58every
35:58day
35:59but
36:00it's
36:00on
36:00your
36:00mind
36:02even
36:02today
36:02what
36:03did
36:03I
36:03do
36:04why
36:04if
36:05it
36:05was
36:05all
36:05about
36:05money
36:07but
36:07then
36:07you
36:07say
36:08well
36:08could
36:08I
36:08have
36:09helped
36:09him
36:10I
36:10could
36:10have
36:10given
36:11him
36:11money
36:12have
36:13you
36:13watched
36:14or
36:14read
36:15his
36:15police
36:15interview
36:16no
36:17the only
36:17thing
36:17I
36:17got
36:18was
36:18a
36:18transcript
36:19of
36:19when
36:19I
36:19was
36:20there
36:43he
36:44he
36:44he
36:45he
36:45do
36:46he
36:46to
36:48hurdle
36:48so
36:50now
36:50was
36:50the time
36:51you know
36:51place
36:52that
36:52the
36:53opportunity
36:55didn't
36:56Did you ask your husband?
36:59I didn't feel a goddamn thing.
37:03I thought I was going to be so guilty.
37:07How long did you know that you had these for?
37:10You were a kid since you were in high school,
37:13since you were in college.
37:19I guess since I was a kid.
37:21Yes.
37:36First time I've ever seen any of this stuff.
37:39But these are clips that puts a different light on what I was told by a lot.
37:46That, you know, he says he was , wanted to kill.
37:52We didn't see it. We didn't know it.
37:55Earlier you were watching the conservationist of the LHL.
37:59Well, it was a definition.
38:02We have the murder of this Open.
38:04And it kills people.
38:07As part of this thing, act their LHL is separate institutions.
38:14We're talking about the LHL.
38:16We figured out what was the whole same act.
38:19I was thinking about that.
38:25so do you look at him a little differently now i don't know they got any emotion right now
38:35i didn't know he was a serial killer
38:41i would hate to go up there and and dig his plot up because i
38:45pissed at him i could take him dig it up and put him down the mine shaft yes
38:52take him out of the family plot but it's not that i don't love him anymore he
39:00less he's my child i look at him differently as he's a serial killer
39:13if i were to look back i'd blame myself in a way for not being the best parent i could
39:18have been
39:20because i've been a workaholic all my life by going in tandy bar at night
39:27we just didn't do a whole bunch together outside of i worked he went to school
39:32so it wasn't a lot of fun time playing as much as it was working
39:38because you feel like for him to do this how his parents what did we do wrong
39:45so you lose that bond of a family i regret that part of it not being there when you feel
39:53like you
39:53should have been there so to blame myself yeah there's blame for myself
40:04i don't forgive those are crimes that you don't forgive people you know there's a punishment to
40:08it and he was given his punishment they just didn't have time to carry it out before he died in
40:16jail
40:19but you know how did it change my life well it changes it to where you're pissed off you don't
40:25sleep it's on your mind all the time so as time goes on well it gets a little easier but
40:30you still
40:31think about it today and here we sit today uh talking about it
40:40it's like it's like people think i guess that i should write him off of my life for what he
40:51did
40:51and i can't do it there there's no words yeah i i carry the weight don't ever i don't think
41:03ever
41:04all have peace with what took place my son was morphing into something i did not recognize it just
41:17wasn't timmy it's two people there i was like this is not normal what is wrong with my son i
41:24swear
41:24to god and it's so hard to make anyone believe but i was looking at a devil
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