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Melanie Martinez sits down with Billboard to talk about her boldest era yet. From killing off Cry Baby after a decade to introducing her new character Circle, Melanie opens up about the making of ‘Hades,’ a raw, dystopian record tackling everything from abusive relationships and performative allyship to billionaires, the houselessness crisis, and AI beauty standards. She also teases the ‘Hades’ film she's been writing alongside the music.
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MusicTranscript
00:00It just feels like dirty and sexy and like raw.
00:03I don't have many songs that make me feel that way when I write.
00:07I think it was a really special one and just a special session.
00:10Like I remember like buzzing, you know, I was like me and Malay were looking at each other like,
00:20Hi everyone, I'm Hannah Daly.
00:22Today we're joined by Melanie Martinez and we're so excited to have you here and to talk about your new
00:27album.
00:27At the beginning of this era to kind of kick it off, you released a statement that was crybaby is
00:33dead.
00:34Why did you feel it was important to distinctly separate your past work from this new era?
00:38Just because it's a new character, I've been working under and creating under that character for the last 10 years.
00:45So, you know, it just feels like an appropriate time to start fresh.
00:50And the last time I started fresh was when I was, you know, 18 or 19 when I first started
00:55with crybaby.
00:56So it was a huge shift for me to now have to embody this whole other energy.
01:03And it's exciting. It's really exciting to start new and to transform and to grow.
01:07So is there any connection story wise from crybaby universe?
01:13Nothing. Do you miss her?
01:14Yeah, of course. I miss her. She's always going to be a part of me, but I'm excited for Circle's
01:20journey.
01:20You really build these intricate visual detailed worlds around all of your albums.
01:27How does that process start for you? Does it look different every time?
01:32And then how did you begin constructing this world for Hades?
01:35Well, I kind of just started with this concept of wanting to make a dystopian record and a utopian record.
01:42That was like the first idea and kind of thought that was seeded.
01:47So I would come into the studio every day and some days I would feel like I wanted to write
01:51about more heavy, intense topics.
01:53So those would be the dystopian days.
01:56And some days I would come into the studio and I'd feel really light and kind of euphoric and want
02:01to express,
02:02I guess, what I would think would be involved within a utopian society, which honestly was way harder than doing
02:09the dystopian record.
02:10Because the dystopian record, I mean, we could just look around.
02:12It's so easy to be like, ah, the world is bleak and there's so much to discuss, you know.
02:17So that's kind of where it started.
02:19And then over time, the character circle came about when I started writing the kind of storyline after writing enough
02:30songs for the dystopian record.
02:31So Hades was kind of like halfway through already.
02:35And I was kind of sitting thinking, OK, I really need to kind of attach all these songs together and
02:43string them through in a storyline and start to figure out what that looked like.
02:48And then I ended up writing a script for the film that I'm working on called Hades, same title.
02:55And circle's the main character.
02:56So it's kind of all combined.
02:59Yeah. So were you working on the album in conjunction with the script for the film?
03:05So they kind of set off of each other?
03:07Yeah, definitely.
03:08That's really cool.
03:09I'm glad you mentioned the difference between writing the Utopia album versus Hades.
03:14Is it called Utopia or is that just...
03:16No, I'm just not sharing the name yet.
03:18Gotcha. All right.
03:19Do you normally write with other people or lyric wise, melody wise, is it just you?
03:26So my most recent and favorite collaborator is CJ Barron and he's like my best friend as well.
03:35And it's always exciting working with him.
03:36He's the best and he produces and I write lyric and melody.
03:41I, for this album, didn't write with any co-writers.
03:46And sometimes in the past I have here and there.
03:50I think it just depends on what I'm feeling, but I was really excited about these topics.
03:55And I just kind of was like writing very quickly.
03:58I felt really tuned in and tapped in and I wrote both of these records, Hades and the Utopian one
04:05as well,
04:06like actually fairly quickly in comparison to my other records.
04:10I think I was just really excited and my antennas were out, so to speak.
04:16And yeah, it came pretty naturally.
04:19Can you talk about some of the things going on in the world that inspired Hades?
04:24Yeah, I mean, oh God, I can go through track by track.
04:27So garbage is kind of like a general summary and it kind of sets up this dystopian kind of world
04:33and kind of asks a question of how can we move forward and build something beautiful of this garbage that
04:40we've been given.
04:41And the second track is this occult is kind of referring to everything being occult, whether it's like kind of
04:49health groups or politics, religion, sports, even like literally anything you could think about.
04:54And how there's always like some scary patriarchal entity at the top that needs to be overthrown.
05:00And then after that is possession and possession is about abusive relationship dynamics, power and control and how that can
05:09look like love and be disguised as love.
05:12And so many people go through like, you know, narcissistic, abusive relationships.
05:16And I thought it was important to talk about that kind of dynamic.
05:19And then after that is white boy with a gun.
05:23That's my favorite one.
05:24Thanks.
05:25And that one is kind of about like performative allyship.
05:28I think it was important to talk about that.
05:30At first I was writing it from this perspective of like, you know, men who kind of use feminist language
05:35to try to get with women.
05:36And then at a certain point I realized it could be about anything.
05:39It could be about like corporations using verbiage to sell more products to marginalized communities.
05:45It could be, you know, about like white feminism and how it's not intersectional and doesn't include everyone.
05:51And there's so much that kind of that song encapsulates.
05:55And then Disney Princess, which is about a young rising star in entertainment.
06:01And as a woman, how that can feel really defeating to have to be commodified and exploited and to not
06:09have a good support system and what that can look like.
06:12And then Grudges is about a feminine rage wanting to kind of express that cathartic.
06:18You know, I think it's really common for women to be walked all over and really hard for us to
06:24set boundaries and stand up for ourselves and kind of show our teeth a little bit without being called a
06:29bitch.
06:30And I think as someone who leans on that side of things where I've like just always been like walked
06:36all over, taken advantage of.
06:38And it was like just such a constant theme in my life.
06:40I really wanted to, you know, write a song that embodied this kind of newfound, like, I don't give a
06:46fuck energy, you know, even though I very much give a fuck and it's very hard to do that.
06:50Monopoly Man, self-explanatory. It's about billionaires and how they're ruining the planet.
06:56Avoidant, which is one of my favorites.
06:59Avoidant is about a different kind of relationship dynamic that I've also encountered a lot, which is like, especially when
07:04you date men.
07:04And I feel like there's a lot of societal pressure for them to not have their emotional net as open
07:11as we are.
07:13You know, vulnerability is it's harder for them to express.
07:16And I think that it can lead towards running away from problems.
07:20And instead of working together, it feels easier to kind of just be avoidant, essentially.
07:26Monolith, which is also one of my favorites, that one makes me cry every time.
07:31It's just such a like outpouring of emotion.
07:34I think it's my best attempt to express what it feels like to be an artist and the amount of
07:41like just giving and outpouring of like love through music and wanting to connect people together and help people through
07:51whatever it is that they're going through and being an open ear in a way or creating like a soundtrack
07:57to their life so that they can have someone there that tells them that they're not alone.
08:01And how lonely on the other side it can be when like no one's really there for you.
08:05Weight Watchers.
08:06When I wrote that song, I was struggling with like weight gain and trying to understand, I guess, what it
08:13was that I wanted to do.
08:16I was like kind of struggling seeing the rabbit hole happen in front of me of all these products that
08:24are pushed your way.
08:25Like, you know, here's the next blah, blah, blah that you should do or the next blah, blah, blah or
08:29whatever, like so many different products and things that are sold to you when you're in that kind of state
08:34of mind and you're questioning your body and how you look.
08:37And I just thought it was an important song to write and I don't think anyone goes unscathed in that
08:46way.
08:46I wrote The Plague to essentially compare The Plague to COVID.
08:51I thought it was an important one to write about.
08:54Yeah.
08:54It's so biblical too.
08:56Yeah.
08:57Like Bachelor Intelligence is kind of an anthemic song about corruption and I guess like anger towards corruption.
09:02And gutters about the houselessness crisis.
09:05I thought that was also important to reflect.
09:07It's kind of rare for people to tackle a topic like that in music because a lot of times people
09:14want to talk about, you know, whatever, like light things in music that feel good and are fun and you
09:19can party to and dance to and have a good time.
09:22But I do think that it's important as well to try to create melodies and sonics around important topics to
09:30kind of open up new perspective to people.
09:34So when building this album around the ideas of a dystopian society and pulling from real life, did you go
09:41in with like almost a checklist of these points that you wanted to address or did one just like flow
09:47after the other?
09:47I kind of wrote titles first. I usually do that. So I'll write titles and then I'll think of how
09:52can I write about this theme or topic to the best of my ability using that title as kind of
09:58the analogy or I would say, like, how am I going to flip this to be able to express this
10:05topic?
10:05And, you know, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. But the theme stays the same. So I knew,
10:09for example, like I have a song called Hell's Front Porch and I knew that I wanted to write about
10:15the climate crisis.
10:16And my first attempt was writing a song called like Earl Grey or something. And it didn't I didn't like
10:21it very much and it wasn't the best that I can do with that topic.
10:24And it being such an important topic for the record, I was like, I need to redo this. So then
10:29I ended up writing Hell's Front Porch, which was way more fitting. And I love that song.
10:32So, yeah, there's like moments like that where like the theme will be really important. I know I have to
10:37write about it, but sometimes the actual title and the song itself like changes and moves into different vibe.
10:45Uncanny Valley is one of my favorite songs on the record. Uncanny Valley was the one song that I worked
10:54on with Malay, who is also incredible. And it was such a fun session.
10:59And I just remember feeling so overwhelmed with excitement because it just felt so fresh and different for me.
11:05And but it's still kind of encapsulated everything that I talk about, but just in this kind of new era
11:11of like AI beauty standards and how that's kind of gone off the rails.
11:16Vatican, very important song. I grew up Christian, so I respect, you know, all people's faith and their desire for
11:25religion and coming together, creating community.
11:28There's a lot of times that organized religion can kind of weaponize spirituality and, you know, abuse their power within
11:37those structures.
11:39And a lot of the times there's so much shame that is spread among the LGBTQ youth.
11:48And I just wanted to write a song about it. And that's my best attempt at it.
11:53And that like pure desire that you were just saying to find community and find gathering is so sadly like
12:00easy to exploit.
12:02Yep, exactly. And that's why. Yeah, exactly.
12:05Chat Room is about online bullying and just thinking about how when I was younger, we had like AIM and
12:11like MySpace and stuff, you know,
12:13and that was like where we experienced like the most kind of, I guess, online bullying, but most of it
12:18was like in person.
12:19So I can't even imagine what kids are going through now with social media. It's like a whole other ballgame.
12:24And then my last song on the record is Last Two People on Earth, which is kind of like I
12:30wanted to write just a love song amongst the chaos.
12:34I thought it was important to end on some sort of transformational note, especially leading into the next record, which
12:41is the Utopian record.
12:42And I feel like that's why this stuff matters is because at the heart of all of the chaos and
12:47darkness is still people.
12:49Yep. Still people connecting and loving.
12:51Connecting and loving. Absolutely. Yeah.
12:54So like you just went through and like when you listen to the album, it's very clear that it's all
12:58grounded in real life stuff.
13:00Can the same be said for the Utopia album?
13:02It's hard, you know, like it's so hard to like I want to believe and imagine that it's like your
13:10idealism kind of kicks in and you're like, oh, yes, like we can absolutely create a better future.
13:15But but how do we get there? You know, that's still the question is, how do we get there?
13:19And I definitely don't have the answers. And a lot of the songs that I wrote for the Utopian album
13:25were just pure blissful moments that I experienced and expressing that each day as you know, it came because there's
13:34so much beauty in the world.
13:35Like there's so much to be grateful for. And human connection is palpable and potent and juicy.
13:44And that's the best word I can describe it as. It's just juicy. Like there's so much love. There's so
13:49much joy.
13:51Yes. There's a lot of things that are very positive. And that album reflects that. But who knows how we
13:56get there?
13:57Right. That is the question. Do you have a favorite song on Hades?
14:03Oh, I have so many favorite songs on Hades. Top three? Top three is so hard.
14:09Is that even harder? Oh, my God, it's so hard.
14:11What's your favorite today? Today. OK, today's that's a good question.
14:15I go back and forth between Garbage and Uncanny Valley. Those two today.
14:21Why? I think Garbage is a perfect summary of the album.
14:25And that was the first session that I tapped into this other part of my vocal tone that was really
14:33special for me to kind of feel out and experiment with.
14:44And then I was able to utilize it in other songs like the plague chorus, which is like also one
14:49of my favorite choruses on the record.
14:52But that song, Garbage, just kind of encapsulates everything. I love it.
14:55And then Uncanny, I mean, I don't know, just it just feels like dirty and sexy and like raw.
15:06I don't have many songs that make me feel that way when I write.
15:11I think it was a really special one and just a special session.
15:13Like I remember like buzzing, you know, I was like me and Malay were looking at each other like, oh,
15:17my God, like this is such a good one.
15:19So I'm really excited about that and for people to hear that one. Yeah.
15:24So as an artist, why do you favor this approach of building these worlds and mythologizing them and really digging
15:33into characters rather than the more like, I guess, straightforward traditional approach that other artists will do of just like
15:41thinking about their lives in a really direct way.
15:44What do you gain from this approach as an artist? I just think it's more fun.
15:50It's it's actually just that simple for me. Like I could absolutely write an album about my life and different
15:58experiences that I have on a day to day.
16:00And in some ways I do, you know, like I've some of the songs on the record are very personal
16:06to me, but I just think it's fun to create in all aspects.
16:11When making music, I don't just ever just write songs.
16:16I'm always thinking about the visual element, the storyline, the you know, how does it fit into the entire picture,
16:23not just like the tiny little fraction, which is like a song.
16:26You know, there's so much other stuff that I'm thinking about and it's exciting.
16:31Yeah. Yeah. Do you see a world in which you ever would go the more traditional route of just being
16:38really autobiographical?
16:39I mean, I'm sure maybe one album in my future, it'll be more like that.
16:46But I don't even know what that looks like. It doesn't really take any extra effort for me to write
16:51the way that I do.
16:52It's kind of just like the way that I write. You know what I mean? Like, I don't really think
16:55about it much.
16:56It just kind of is like it's like if I have an idea, I just want to materialize it and
17:01it'll drive me crazy if I don't like if I have this like concept in my head or the story
17:06or something and I don't write it.
17:08I just I would be miserable. So I just have to get it out. And so as long as that
17:13keeps happening, I think I'm going to be probably doing it this way for my whole life.
17:18I don't know. Do the songs like in any indirect way, the songs that you have put out and worked
17:24on, do they in an indirect way feel autobiographical at all?
17:28Yeah, I mean, for sure. I mean, I could name a few songs on the record. I mean, for example,
17:34like Weight Watchers, like that's such a personal song.
17:37So personal. If you listen to the lyrics, it's it's exact and avoidant also. I mean, there's yeah, there's there's
17:47quite a lot in that way.
17:48And then there's some that are more exaggerated, you know, that kind of take maybe a little bit of my
17:52experience and then kind of, I guess, amplify it for the story.
17:58And for the character, like Disney Princess, for example, like I understand what it feels like to be a woman
18:04in entertainment.
18:05But I'm also not someone who's taken that sort of path. And I haven't experienced a lot of that kind
18:13of downward spiral in that kind of way.
18:17But I have friends who have. I've seen it. You know, a lot of artists struggle with drug addiction and
18:21don't have a good support system around them.
18:24And I'm lucky that I do have a good support system around me. But I think writing about the extremes
18:30and amplifying and talking about those stories, I think, is way more, way more important, you know.
18:35And then trying to think of other ones. Oh, monolith. Monolith also is directly personal experience and my own feelings
18:45about what it feels like to be in the spotlight and to be an artist.
18:49So, yeah, there are a lot. I just have some like fun, like non album questions. So I as someone
18:57who like spent a lot of my teen years on Tumblr, I definitely like associate you as in a group
19:05of artists that like take me back to that time.
19:08And it just celebrated its 19th anniversary. Did that. Do you have any feelings about that or?
19:15God, I mean, I. Nostalgia. I do have a lot of nostalgia for sure. I miss it. You know, I
19:20kind of want to make a Tumblr. I would love to.
19:22But there's so many ads on Tumblr now and I wish they would change that. That's the only reason why
19:27I haven't gotten back on it.
19:28But I love the format and I love being able to create, you know, a layout. And again, it's just
19:35such a creative platform.
19:37Yeah, that was so fun. It was really fun. If we could get a Tumblr renaissance. Absolutely. That would be
19:41amazing.
19:42Who are your favorite artists right now? I'm listening to a lot of like Big Thief and Mitski and a
19:50lot of different.
19:50I mean, my favorite artist of all time is like Fiona Apple. But a lot lately, a lot of Big
19:55Thief just like on repeat. So, yeah.
19:57Thank you so much for joining us, Melanie. We love having you.
20:00Thank you for having me.
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