- 2 hours ago
In this edition of To The Point, the focus is on the escalating tensions between the United States and Iran and the showdown over deletion of voter's names in Bengal during the SIR exercise ahead of assembly polls.
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00:02Good evening, you're watching To The Point. I'm Preeti Chaudhary. Let me quickly take you through the headlines.
00:11Trump issues big warning to Iran says whole civilization to die tonight.
00:16Earlier, he hints at four-hour bombing plan to obilitate Iran.
00:21Tehran shows flexibility for talks but stays adamant on preconditions.
00:30Hours after Israel warning, multiple railway bridges in Iran struck.
00:35Two civilians killed after strikes. Railway bridges in Kashar.
00:39U.S. forces also strike key Iranian oil hub Kharg Island.
00:50Ahead of elections, Assam police searches Congress media in charge.
00:54Pawan Khaira's home in Delhi. Big move amidst Himanta Sarma's wife's passport trial.
00:59Cops claim incriminating material found from Kedah's residence.
01:11Suspected rocket attack kills two kids in Manipur.
01:14Rocket hits BSF Jawan's homes, kills two Mehdi kids.
01:18Five-year-old boy, two-year-old infant killed in the head.
01:21Suspected cookie militants fired these rockets.
01:29Over 90 lakh voters deleted in Bengal SIR.
01:3358 lakhs names deleted in first phase of SIR.
01:36BJP smells victory in Bengal.
01:38Sees significant dent to TMC strongholds.
01:48Historic achievement in NASA's manned mission to lunar orbit.
01:52Artemis reaches maximum distance from Earth.
01:55Astronauts now the farthest away from Earth than any humans in history.
02:18All right, let's cut across to the latest news break that is coming in.
02:21Iran has now closed all diplomatic and indirect channels of communication with the United States.
02:27Any and all message exchanges have also been suspended.
02:31This after the ominous message by Trump on social media where he said that there could be a civilization end.
02:39Iran has threatened now to close all waterways as well.
02:44Senior Iranian sources to Reuters.
02:46If the situation gets out of control, Iran's allies will also close Bab-el-Mandeb waterway.
02:54Reports suggest what U.S. wants is the reopening of Harbu Strait.
02:57Iran will not open it in exchange for empty promises.
03:02All of this, viewers, comes at the back of what President Trump posted on social media a short while ago,
03:08where he practically gave out an ominous warning till where he said there could be a civilization end.
03:16He doesn't want to do it, but it's possible.
03:19And speaking of Iran and the citizens of Iran as well,
03:24he said he loves the Iranian people, but there could be a civilization end.
03:29At the back of that, you have the vice president as well,
03:32who said that there could be a message coming in from Iran in a few hours from now.
03:39I want to connect right now to my colleague, Gaurav Sawant, as well as Sandeep Unithan,
03:43who have been tracking things very closely and all the developments which are very, very fast-paced, Sandeep.
03:48Sandeep, that's an ominous warning by President Trump.
03:51And now, the first reaction by Iran coming in.
03:57Absolutely, Preeti.
03:58You know, it's unprecedented the kind of rhetoric that's been used by President Trump
04:03to threats to end a civilization,
04:06which can only mean the targeting of civilian infrastructure on a massive scale
04:11as he's been threatening over the past couple of days.
04:14This could take the form of targeting power plants,
04:19drinking water facilities, bridges, roads.
04:24All of these which bring up urban civilization in Iran.
04:29And that is possibly the reference to what he's made.
04:31And it's clearly the United States president is, you know, literally running out of options.
04:39He's running out of words to, you know, break this impasse.
04:43And that only explains this kind of rhetoric.
04:47He's trying to force a resolution where Iran is, you know, clearly, you know,
04:53holding fast on not opening the Strait of Hormuz.
04:57So this language points to a certain sense of frustration on the part of the U.S. president
05:02and the indication that he will use every means necessary now,
05:06including the bombing of civilian infrastructure, which I must add is a war crime, Preeti.
05:12We are right there. It is a war crime.
05:13But that already has happened in the past as well.
05:16I want to cut across to my colleague Rohit Sharma, who's joining us from Washington, D.C.
05:20Because, you know, as Sandeep was elucidating, this max of frustration,
05:25which already has been ensuing in the last few days, Rohit,
05:29where the kind of language that President Trump has used,
05:33and now where he says, ominous as it may, but it does seem desperate as well,
05:38where he says whole civilization will die tonight.
05:42Yeah, I think interesting choice of words by the rest of the United States.
05:45You know, what I'm being told is that there are still, you know,
05:50all different set of perspectives being shared in the White House,
05:54and the president does enjoy broad support in whatever decision he takes,
05:58but they are trying to try to see if they can find common ground with the Iranians.
06:03And I think one of the things that we've learned is that President Donald Trump
06:06wants the state of Hormuz open without any preconditions.
06:10And as, you know, we were reporting earlier,
06:12that Iran would not do it unless certain preconditions are met.
06:15So I think that is the impasse at this point in time.
06:17President Donald Trump also believes that there has to be some goodwill gesture
06:23that has to come out from Iran before he changes his plans to strike Iran
06:28after 8 p.m. tonight, Easter.
06:30So we'll have to wait and watch, Preeti.
06:31I think, you know, we are in a position where I think nobody would want to be,
06:36but we still have 10 hours to go.
06:38Vice President J.D. Vence himself saying that he is also in touch
06:41with the chief negotiator, Ambassador Whitcoff,
06:44and that he is also hopeful that some sort of a deal could be made.
06:48And if not, then we all know what the consequences will be
06:51as outlined by the President of the United States, Preeti.
06:55You know, Rohit, because the consequences here will be faced by 93 million Iranians
07:00because when President Trump says that there will be an end to civilization,
07:04a whole civilization, will die tonight, what does he mean in terms of what is this attack looking like?
07:10Because is he just going to start bombing Iran?
07:12Because he's already, you know, where war crimes are concerned,
07:15it's already happening where America and Israel is concerned.
07:20Well, I honestly do not think and believe that the U.S. would carry out strike on civilians.
07:25Yes, he's talked about attacking infrastructure, you know, to essentially bring Iran up to its knees.
07:32But in the same press conference, he said, look, Iran has a choice.
07:36You know, we'd be more than happy and willing to rebuild Iran.
07:39And we could, you know, work with them and maybe they can make a lot of money with us if
07:43they side with us.
07:44But I think this is the classic President Trump tactic of, you know, showing strength and wanting peace.
07:50So we'll have to wait and watch.
07:51I personally do not believe that, you know, he would just start bombing every civilian in Iran.
07:55I think we'd still definitely go after some of those military infrastructures.
07:59He will follow through if the deal is not met.
08:01I mean, he'd definitely follow through his strikes.
08:03But I think this is, I think this is a miss.
08:06You know, we don't have to read too much into what he said.
08:08I think he's still threatening Iran to come down and talk.
08:10Well, that's the tragedy of it, isn't it, Sandeep?
08:12Because we don't have to read too much in what President Trump is saying.
08:16Because what he's literally saying is that there will be an end to civilization.
08:19If it was only about bombing key installations, well, he's already doing it.
08:24He's already, you know, there are already desalination plants that are being bombed.
08:28So what is he speaking of?
08:30And like Rohit says, one doesn't really need to take him too seriously.
08:33That's the tragedy of it all, isn't it?
08:43Sandeep, that question's for you.
08:45Well, Preeti, you know, the fact that the bombing campaign that's been on, that's entered its sixth week now has
08:52failed to produce any results for the United States.
08:55Iran has still stood fast on blocking the Strait of Hormuz.
08:58It's not reopened the Strait.
09:00Despite having, in the words of the U.S. President, lost its air force, lost its navy,
09:05it's seen the kind of bombing that few countries have in the 21st century.
09:10The U.S. has mounted something like 13,000 sorties, air force sorties, all of them would actually carry more
09:18than one bomb.
09:19So you can imagine the quantum of explosives that have been dropped on Iran over the last six months.
09:24But despite all of this, Iran has refused to reopen the Strait of Hormuz,
09:28which then points to a certain desperation on the part of the U.S.
09:32that if all of this has failed, then what next?
09:35Then you target something that will actually make them come to the, either to the negotiation table
09:42or reopen the Strait of Hormuz, which is bombing civilian infrastructure.
09:46Now, that is something that Iran cannot, you know, prevent or protect from,
09:51because as we've clearly seen, the U.S. Air Force has a free run over Iran's skies.
09:56They can bomb any targets that they wish to.
09:59Iran's air defenses have been degraded to a very large extent,
10:03which then opens up this entire Iran, the civilian infrastructure, the power plants,
10:09all of that to targeting by the United States and Israel.
10:12And this could also, Preeti, include the oil infrastructure, especially at Khark.
10:18And he has, the President Trump has threatened to do that on several occasions in the past,
10:23said that I will not capture the island, I'll probably just bomb it.
10:26You know, that kind of rhetoric is what we've been hearing.
10:28So this is unprecedented for a U.S. President to use this kind of rhetoric.
10:34It's never happened in the history of the United States.
10:37So much hasn't happened, Sandeep.
10:39We haven't seen a U.S. President use this kind of language when it comes to, you know, another country.
10:44You're right.
10:45So much is, so much unprecedented has happened.
10:48And Rohit, I want to just, you know, get you in for a quick comment,
10:50because, you know, when you speak of bombing a civilisation,
10:53you're talking about a war crime under the Geneva Convention,
10:57but nothing really holds, you know,
11:01it doesn't really matter when it comes down to the President of America, does it?
11:07Well, first things first, Preeti, just to say the right question,
11:09I did not say that, you know, you should not take President Trump seriously.
11:12I think we should absolutely take him seriously,
11:14in the sense that he has followed through.
11:16Even if it's delayed, he has followed through.
11:18I mean, if the deal is not reached, you know, he will pursue airstrikes.
11:23And I think what I differ is the approach.
11:25I think he would not go off for civilians.
11:27He definitely attacks some other infrastructure installations out in Iran.
11:31I think that's just my understanding.
11:33The other thing is, you know, look, as far as war crimes are concerned,
11:36yes, you know, five, four years ago, two years ago,
11:38if somebody would have talked about war crimes,
11:40we would have looked at Russia.
11:41We would have looked at even China, for that matter,
11:43if they were to do something stupid in South China Sea.
11:46Definitely not the United States.
11:48And there are voices in this administration,
11:50especially that are guiding President Trump
11:52and making him aware of the consequences that can happen
11:55if he were to attack any civilian solution.
11:57And I believe that, you know, those sound voices will prevail.
12:01But if Iran does not, you know, agree to his demands,
12:04we will definitely see escalation.
12:05We will see some airstrikes, mild airstrikes, I should say.
12:09But I don't think the President of Iran would be targeting civilians.
12:11At least that is what I know.
12:13And I believe that is what will prevail.
12:15All right, thank you, Sandeep and Rohit, for joining us.
12:19We're going to come back to you for more
12:20because there is now, what, ten and a half hours left
12:22for the deadline given by America to Iran.
12:25Let's see how that pans out.
12:27We've got a keen eye on all developments that are taking place.
12:32Bengal's election battle is no longer just political.
12:35It's turning into a fight over the very right to vote.
12:39What has now happened keeps 91 lakh names deleted from the rolls
12:45where West Bengal is concerned post the SIR protests on the streets
12:49and a fierce Manta versus BJP face-off is on-suing.
12:53The voter list revision has now become the biggest flashpoint of this election.
12:57And the question remains that is this due diligence that there were voters who were bogus
13:04and they needed to be removed or is this disenfranchisement of genuine voters?
13:17In Bengal's heated election season, the fiercest battle isn't over promises
13:23but over who gets to vote.
13:25The special intensive revision has now emerged as the central flashpoint
13:30that is spilling onto the streets.
13:33The scale is staggering.
13:35Nearly 91 lakh names deleted from the voter list.
13:39From 7.66 crore voters earlier, the list has now shrunk to 6.77 crore.
13:46That is an 11.6% cut, meaning more than 1 in 10 voters removed.
13:55But beyond the numbers, there is rising anger on the streets.
13:59Across districts, people are alleging wrongful deletions
14:03and protests are now erupting in several pockets
14:06with tempers running high and questions growing louder.
14:10These deletions did not happen all at once.
14:14In the first round alone, 58.2 lakh voters were struck off,
14:20followed by 5.46 lakh in the second round
14:23and another 27 lakh in the third list,
14:26taking the total deletions to over 90.66 lakh names.
14:32The impact is visible across districts.
14:36Murshidabad saw the highest deletions at 4.5 lakh,
14:40followed by North 24 Parganas with 3.25 lakh.
14:44Malda with 2.39 lakh.
14:46South 24 Parganas with 2.2 lakh.
14:50And Purba Bardhaman with over 2 lakh names removed.
14:54Interestingly, TMC has dominated these districts,
14:58making the political stakes even sharper.
15:01But the picture shifts when you look at adjudication outcomes.
15:06Of those flagged and adjudicated,
15:09a significant percentage has been removed.
15:14In Nodiyah, nearly 78% of adjudicated voters were deleted.
15:19Hugli saw over 70% removed.
15:22Purba Bardhaman, over 57%.
15:24And North 24 Parganas, over 55%.
15:28Even urban pockets weren't untouched.
15:33Kolkata North saw nearly 29% lesions among those adjudicated.
15:38And Kolkata South, over 27%.
15:45The numbers have now triggered a full-blown political showdown.
15:49Chief Minister Mamata Banerji is calling it a systematic purge.
16:08With tribunals flooded, courts stepping in and protests intensifying on the streets,
16:14the battle in Bengal is no longer just about winning votes.
16:19It is about identity, inclusion and the fundamental right to vote.
16:27Bureau Report, India Today.
16:32So the moot question this evening on the eve of election,
16:35due diligence or disenfranchisement,
16:37because there are a lot of cases that are in court today
16:39and they will not be allowed to vote, at least in this election cycle.
16:44Let me take all these questions to our panelists this evening.
16:48Joining me, Reju Datta, spokesperson, TMC,
16:50Shikha Mukherjee, political commentator,
16:53Sanju Verma, national spokesperson, BJP.
16:55All of you will get a two-minute time to put your point forward.
16:58I would like to begin with Shikha Mukherjee.
17:00Shikha Mukherjee, 91 lakh deletions.
17:02What does this really mean for the TMC?
17:06Well, the TMC as a party, it means trouble.
17:10Because, you know, I was just speaking to people,
17:16her challenge, the BJP,
17:18and they were very thrilled with the fact that there were so many deletions.
17:22because it means that in about 120-odd seats,
17:29she becomes very vulnerable
17:31because of the margins that are there.
17:33Now, if that is so,
17:35then, yes, these deletions work to the disadvantage,
17:39serious disadvantage of the Trinidad Congress.
17:42It works to the great advantage of the BJP.
17:45But that is not the point.
17:48The point is that if 90 lakh people
17:52have been taken off the voters' list,
17:54and there are people who are now
17:58struggling to get
18:00some kind of justice from the tribunals,
18:04this is not just disenfranchisement.
18:06Disenfranchisement is a much larger process.
18:10Disenfranchisement means that
18:11they are permanently and forever,
18:12which the Supreme Court says it is not.
18:15The Supreme Court has said this is not forever.
18:17And it's only for this election cycle.
18:20So that is disenfranchisement.
18:23If this is only for this election,
18:26as we have been discussing,
18:28as the Supreme Court seems to be saying,
18:31then this is voter suppression,
18:33which is a very, very ugly kind of action.
18:38And if this is voter suppression,
18:42as I think it may be,
18:44then it seems that the Election Commission
18:46is part of the story.
18:49The Election Commission,
18:50instead of being an independent,
18:53autonomous, neutral, impartial agency,
18:56has engaged in ways
19:00that make it into an act of voter suppression.
19:04Because they can't disenfranchise.
19:07That's not in their hands.
19:10I'm going to come right back to you.
19:12Your two-minute timer is over.
19:14I want to bring in Sanju Verma.
19:15Sanju Verma, there are two parts to the story.
19:17You seem to be disagreeing
19:18with what Shikha Mukherjee is saying.
19:19One part, of course,
19:20you can look at it and you say,
19:21you know,
19:22there were always illegal immigrants.
19:23And I'll give you a figure.
19:2495% of deletions that have happened
19:26in Nandigram are Muslims.
19:28And you're free to say
19:30that there are illegal settlers
19:32and now finally the chicken
19:34have come home to roost.
19:35But on the other account,
19:36split the 91 lakh.
19:38There are 27 lakhs,
19:39which are still some of them in court
19:42because the reason why
19:44they've been kept off the rolls
19:45is because they haven't been able
19:46to provide proper documentation
19:48or their name hasn't been cleared.
19:51Now, some of this 27 lakh lot
19:54is in court saying,
19:55we have our papers.
19:57We need our voting right back.
19:59The sheer fact,
20:00and let me go all the way back
20:02when the SIR exercise began
20:04in West Bengal.
20:05Most people didn't contend
20:07with the fact that
20:08why is the SIR taking place?
20:11The contention was
20:12the timing of it all
20:13because there wasn't enough time.
20:15And ultimately,
20:16when we are standing
20:16on the eve of elections,
20:17Sanju Verma,
20:18there isn't enough time
20:19for their rights to be addressed.
20:22So there could be a huge chunk
20:23which will be added
20:24in the next election cycle,
20:25but this election,
20:26they will not be allowed to vote.
20:28Isn't that ominous
20:30for a democracy?
20:32You know,
20:33Preeti,
20:34first and foremost,
20:34they make one thing
20:35very clear.
20:37Is SIR a legitimate,
20:39valid,
20:41constitutionally mandated
20:42democratic exercise?
20:44Yes.
20:44The current CJI,
20:46Surya Khan,
20:46has so.
20:47The previous CJI,
20:49Sanjeev Na,
20:50and B. Gawai,
20:51while hearing
20:52particularly
20:53from the C,
20:55said,
20:56the election commission
20:57has the prerogative
20:58to decide
20:59to decide
20:59who gets to vote
21:00and who doesn't.
21:02That is the 24th,
21:0425th,
21:05and 26th
21:06of constitution.
21:07So the first,
21:08I want to miss,
21:09anyone sitting here
21:10and saying,
21:11SIR
21:12has been an excise
21:14to disenfranchise
21:16third section
21:17of the society
21:18is living
21:19in Lala Land.
21:21The second
21:21concern to me
21:22is this.
21:23Barely 24 hours back,
21:26a two judge
21:27bested by justice,
21:29Joy Mala Bharti
21:30and CJI,
21:32Surya Khan,
21:32clearly said,
21:34how is it
21:35that West Bengal
21:36is the only state
21:38which continues
21:39to have problems
21:40SIR?
21:42SIR was conducted
21:43in Gujarat,
21:45in Dalai,
21:46in Uttaradesh.
21:47Nobody seems
21:48to be happy
21:48and political
21:51and,
21:52Tamil Nadu
21:53is a BJP
21:54rule state.
21:55Tamil Nadu
21:56is ruled
21:56by PMK
21:57before start
21:59pontificating
22:00that,
22:00oh,
22:00BJP rule states
22:01have easy.
22:03The other point
22:04I want to make
22:04is this,
22:06that West Bengal
22:07is only
22:09predisposed
22:10to adjudication
22:146060
22:14lakh
22:15words.
22:16You know,
22:17their names
22:17should be there
22:18in the finest
22:19or not.
22:20It was adjudicated
22:22upon
22:22and after
22:23adjudication
22:24it was decided
22:25that 45%
22:27of this
22:28city
22:28is in
22:29lit
22:30and after
22:31that,
22:3127 lakh
22:32words were
22:33there in
22:34lit.
22:34So,
22:35Dikkat
22:35your time
22:36is up.
22:37I'd urge you
22:37to correct
22:38your audio.
22:39We're getting
22:39a little bit
22:40of broken
22:40stream.
22:41We can hear
22:41you but
22:42there is a
22:42problem
22:42with your
22:43audio.
22:43The question
22:44was never
22:44on once
22:45again,
22:45Ms.
22:45Verma,
22:46and I'll
22:46circle back
22:46to you.
22:47The question
22:47wasn't on
22:48why the
22:49SIR,
22:49is the
22:50SIR
22:50illegal?
22:51It's not
22:51illegal.
22:52The EC
22:53is well
22:53within its
22:53right to
22:54hold the
22:54SIR
22:54and SIR
22:55should be
22:55held.
22:56Illegal
22:56should not
22:57be allowed
22:57to vote.
22:58It was
22:58on whether
22:59the process
23:00could be
23:00complete and
23:01sanitized
23:01before the
23:02election.
23:03And today
23:03when we
23:03are standing
23:04on the
23:04eve of
23:05election,
23:06it seems
23:06a little
23:07more time
23:08would have
23:08been needed
23:08especially
23:09for all
23:10the cases
23:10right now
23:11in court
23:11because at
23:13least in
23:13this election
23:14cycle,
23:14at least
23:1518 lakh
23:15people will
23:16not be
23:16allowed to
23:17vote that
23:17have gone
23:17to court.
23:18And I'm
23:18just giving
23:18you a
23:19figure which
23:19is in
23:20court today.
23:20And that's
23:20a sizable
23:21figure,
23:21Sanju
23:21Verma.
23:22I want
23:22to bring
23:23in Riju
23:24Dutta
23:24into this
23:25conversation.
23:26Riju
23:26Dutta,
23:27you know,
23:28the BJP
23:28is also
23:29very clear
23:30and,
23:31you know,
23:32one can
23:32appreciate the
23:33fact when
23:33they say,
23:34you're just
23:34running scared,
23:35you're going
23:35to lose in
23:36any case and
23:36you're using
23:37SIR as
23:38the Mahagat
23:39Bandhan used
23:39it in
23:40Bihar,
23:40that you're
23:41going to
23:41lose this
23:42election and
23:43it's all
23:43because of
23:43voter manipulation.
23:45Okay,
23:46so I'll be
23:49very crisp
23:49and concise
23:50for my two
23:50minutes.
23:5191 lakh
23:52voters deleted,
23:54Bengalis
23:54deleted from
23:55Bengal.
23:57and that
23:58is 11%
23:58of the
23:59entire
23:59population
24:00of
24:00Bengal.
24:01Out of
24:01Mohamatha
24:02Banerjee
24:03went to
24:03Supreme
24:03Court,
24:0460 lakh
24:05people,
24:0760,000,
24:0860 lakh
24:08people in
24:09the
24:10adjudication
24:10list.
24:11Mohamatha
24:12Banerjee
24:12somehow fought
24:13and judicial
24:15officers appointed
24:15out of which
24:1632 lakhs
24:17got approved,
24:1827 lakhs
24:19deleted.
24:20Keep in
24:20mind,
24:21these 27
24:21lakh voters
24:22are mapped
24:23voters of
24:232002.
24:24They are
24:25bona fide
24:25citizens of
24:26this country
24:27who might,
24:28after tribunal
24:28verdict,
24:29can be passed
24:30as bona fide
24:32citizens and
24:32they have the
24:33right to vote,
24:33but they cannot
24:34vote in this
24:35election.
24:35So basically,
24:36I want to say
24:37this without
24:38mincing my
24:38words.
24:39This is a
24:39criminal
24:40offense.
24:41Gyanesh Kumar
24:41is a criminal
24:42who at the
24:43behest of BJP
24:44and Amit Shah
24:44has done
24:45electoral genocide
24:47in Bengal.
24:47He has robbed
24:48people of their
24:49basic fundamental
24:50right, which is
24:51the right to
24:51vote.
24:53Secondly,
24:53these people
24:55who have
24:56been thrown
24:57out of the
24:58voter list
24:58will lose
24:59all government
25:00benefits.
25:01So it is
25:01also a
25:02humanitarian
25:03crime they
25:04have committed.
25:05Democracy
25:05demolished,
25:07constitution gone
25:08for an
25:08absolute toss.
25:09But BJP who
25:11are jumping up
25:12and down because
25:13they have no
25:13cadder base,
25:14they have no
25:14voting base,
25:16reliant on
25:16SIR that they
25:17will win
25:18Bengal.
25:18I am going
25:19to say this
25:19on record in
25:20last 30
25:20seconds to
25:21India today.
25:22On 4th of
25:23May, when
25:23Bengal's verdict
25:24will be
25:25delivered,
25:26mark my
25:26words,
25:26Srinamul
25:27Congress will
25:28form the
25:28government with
25:29two-third
25:30majority,
25:30India today
25:31and BJP
25:31can save
25:32it.
25:32And second
25:33point,
25:34Mohamata Banerjee
25:34will take
25:35oath as the
25:36fourth consecutive
25:37term Chief
25:38Minister of
25:38West Bengal.
25:39So please,
25:40BJP and the
25:41media can save
25:42this bite and
25:42we will talk
25:43about it on
25:434th of May.
25:45All right,
25:45okay, well,
25:46you've finished
25:47your piece,
25:47three seconds
25:48waiting,
25:49but Shikha
25:50Mukherjee,
25:50I want to
25:50get you into
25:51this conversation
25:52because it's
25:52important to
25:53touch on when
25:54you speak that
25:54there are 120
25:56seats that had
25:57razor-thin margins
25:58and could be
25:59impacted by the
26:00deletions that
26:01have taken place
26:01because this is
26:02now going to be
26:03the voter list
26:03going forward.
26:04How do you see
26:05things pan out
26:06politically for
26:06both the BJP
26:07and the TMC?
26:08You've already
26:09said this is a
26:10huge advantage
26:10to the BJP.
26:12Yes, and I
26:13think because it's
26:15going to be a
26:15very, very tough
26:16contest,
26:17contest, it's
26:18going to be a
26:18no-holds-barred
26:19contest.
26:20Things are not
26:21being helped by
26:22the fact that
26:23people have hit
26:23the streets and
26:24they have done
26:25so spontaneously.
26:26There have been
26:27no rabble-rousers
26:29or masterminds
26:30or whatever to
26:31bring them out
26:32on the street.
26:33The fact is that
26:33this is going
26:35to be, for the
26:37BJP, an
26:42extremely difficult
26:43test in the
26:45sense that
26:45if they win,
26:48they win, but
26:49at the same
26:50time, do they
26:51have the
26:52confidence of
26:53all the
26:53population which
26:54they need in
26:55order to be able
26:56to govern going
26:57forward?
26:58And the
26:59Trinamool is
26:59waiting in the
27:00wings to make
27:02sure that they
27:02don't have that
27:03confidence.
27:04It's going to
27:05be, if things
27:08happen as the
27:10BJP expects it
27:11to happen, which
27:12is that they
27:12will win with
27:13a massive
27:13margin, then
27:15West Bengal is
27:17in for
27:17tumultuous
27:18strikes.
27:19And TMC's
27:23vulnerability
27:25means that
27:26between now
27:28and the
27:2823rd, when
27:29the first
27:29phase of
27:30polling starts,
27:32then the
27:34kind of
27:37mobilization and
27:38competition that
27:39will happen
27:40booth-wise, in
27:43the 157, 152
27:47constituencies which
27:48are going to
27:49the polls in
27:50the first
27:50round, it's
27:51going to be
27:53horrible.
27:55It's going to
27:56be really
27:56horrible.
27:57Why?
27:58Because it
27:59is going to
28:00test or
28:02stretch the
28:03law and
28:04order machinery.
28:05It's going to
28:06demand of the
28:09law and order
28:09machinery to
28:10the election
28:11commission, which
28:12has promised a
28:13violence-free
28:13election, that
28:15they have to
28:16handle the
28:17volatility in
28:19a way which
28:20doesn't end in
28:21violence.
28:22All right,
28:23well, you
28:23know, we'll
28:24see how things
28:25go, but what
28:25you're saying is
28:26ominous,
28:27Shikha Mukherjee,
28:28that there could
28:29be now violence,
28:31especially it will
28:32come down to the
28:33wire.
28:33Both camps will
28:35be going all
28:35out and it
28:36might not look
28:37very pretty on
28:38ground.
28:38Sanju Verma,
28:39I'll come back
28:40to you with the
28:40same question
28:41that I asked
28:41you earlier.
28:42Nobody is
28:43saying SIR
28:43was wrong.
28:44The EC is
28:45well within its
28:45right and SIR
28:46should have
28:47taken place.
28:48But it was the
28:49timing which was
28:49in question that
28:51it would not be
28:52complete in time
28:53where there would
28:54be satisfaction on
28:55ground, especially
28:56with voters who
28:57would say this was
28:58a free and fair
28:58process.
28:59We are now
29:00today standing on
29:01the crossroads.
29:0218 lakh cases
29:03are in court.
29:0427 lakh deletions
29:05have happened
29:06where there
29:07haven't been
29:08proper paperwork
29:09or they haven't
29:10been able to
29:11prove themselves
29:12as citizens.
29:12Some of them
29:13have been left
29:14out, which is
29:14bizarre because
29:15one family, two
29:16have been included,
29:16three have been
29:17left out.
29:18All these cases
29:19only for this
29:20election will not
29:21be allowed to
29:21vote and then
29:22of course
29:22permutations,
29:23combinations prevail
29:23post that.
29:24This, I'll ask
29:26you that question
29:26again, Sanju.
29:27Verma is ominous
29:28for a democracy.
29:31You know,
29:32Preeti, since you
29:33keep saying Sanju
29:34Verma, let me
29:35tell you, Preeti
29:35Chaudhary, with
29:36due respect, who
29:38is going to
29:38decide whether
29:40SIR is a
29:41legitimate exercise
29:41or not?
29:42Who is going to
29:43decide whether
29:44the timing is
29:45right or not?
29:46Who is going to
29:46decide whether
29:47adjudication process
29:49was biased or
29:51unbiased?
29:51Who is going to
29:52decide whether
29:53the supplementary
29:54roles that were
29:55published not once
29:56but on 23rd March
29:57supplementary role
29:58was published,
29:5927th March
30:00supplementary role
30:01was published,
30:023rd April
30:03supplementary role
30:04was published,
30:05giving people who
30:06said that they
30:08are not figuring
30:09in the final list
30:10a chance to be
30:11included.
30:12The ECI website
30:13clearly told these
30:15doubtful voters,
30:16give your booth
30:17number, give your
30:18constituency details,
30:20we will come there
30:21and ensure that you
30:23fill in the right
30:23forms and you're a
30:24part of the
30:25legitimate voting
30:26process.
30:27But they did
30:28not do so.
30:29Who are the
30:29they?
30:30When I say
30:30they, I mean
30:31the 27 lakh
30:33doubtful voters
30:34who were crying
30:35foul and have
30:37actually been
30:37adjudicated.
30:39Do you know
30:39how many judicial
30:40officers were
30:41deployed in West
30:42Bengal alone to
30:43ensure that the
30:44SIR process is
30:45free and fair
30:46from any bias?
30:48703 judges.
30:50And what I'm
30:51appalled by is
30:52the fact that
30:53TMC spokesperson,
30:55Riju Datta has
30:56the audacity to
30:58call Gyanesh Kumar
30:59a criminal?
31:00Shame on you,
31:00Riju Datta.
31:01And you give
31:02lectures to
31:03Amit Shah.
31:03Amit Shah is not
31:04standing for
31:05elections.
31:06An incompetent
31:07chief minister who's
31:08also the de facto
31:09home minister, a
31:10lady called Mamta
31:11Banerjee is standing
31:13for elections.
31:14So stop giving
31:15lectures to Amit Shah.
31:16to you.
31:16One second.
31:17Ma'am, finish.
31:18That's it.
31:18Okay.
31:19Riju Verma, please
31:19respond.
31:21Can I finish,
31:22Preeti?
31:22I was just ending
31:23my mind.
31:24Ma'am, I need to
31:24you've spoken.
31:26Let me move on.
31:27Go ahead.
31:27Riju Verma, make
31:28your point.
31:29Riju Datta, Preeti.
31:30Sorry, Riju Datta.
31:31Oh, Lord.
31:32It's a Freudian slip.
31:33Sorry.
31:34It's all right.
31:35It's all right.
31:36It's all right.
31:37I just want to say
31:38this, that BJP
31:40Netaz, specifically
31:41Amit Shah, the owner
31:42of Votchur Gyanesh Kumar,
31:44gave him a target
31:45of 1 crore 25 lakh
31:46leaps.
31:47He somehow came
31:48close to the target
31:49after Mamta Banerjee
31:51went to Supreme
31:51Court.
31:52We fought it
31:52in the court
31:54outside on the
31:54streets and he
31:55has come to 91
31:56lakhs.
31:57He couldn't fulfill
31:57his quota that his
31:59Malik gave him.
32:00But again, I will
32:01say this, on 4th of
32:02May, what is going
32:04to happen?
32:04Trinamul will win.
32:05Mamta Banerjee
32:06will again become
32:07the Chief Minister.
32:08Longest running
32:09woman Chief Minister
32:09in the history of
32:10independent India
32:11for the first
32:12consecutive term.
32:14Gyanesh Kumar
32:14will lose his job.
32:16BJP will be
32:17non-existent in
32:18Bengal.
32:19And just to finish
32:20off my point,
32:21rather than going
32:21into whataboutry
32:22and this, that,
32:23every bacha-bacha
32:24in this country
32:25knows what EC
32:26Gyanesh Kumar
32:27has done in
32:28Bengal.
32:28So I will, I'm
32:29just going to finish.
32:30Ma'am, do not
32:31interrupt.
32:31You know, that's the
32:32time, there is a
32:33reason why I need
32:34the timer.
32:36I just want to
32:38finish 10 seconds
32:39with a quote from
32:40Bhagavad Gita.
32:41And it is
32:42completely political
32:44and I want to
32:45say it on record
32:46that I'm making
32:46this as a political
32:47point.
32:48And the quote said,
32:49and the quote in
32:50Bhagavad Gita,
32:50Lord Krishna said,
32:51you tried everything
32:53to make peace with
32:54them.
32:54You tried everything
32:56to make peace with
32:56them.
32:57Now give them
32:57the word they
32:58want.
32:59Okay, you know,
33:00I'm going to get
33:01into a quick break.
33:02I've realized no
33:03political debate can
33:04actually be conducted
33:05without a timer,
33:07at least where it
33:08comes down to
33:08spokespersons.
33:09I thank all three of
33:10you for joining us.
33:12Appreciate it.
33:15What began as a war of
33:17words has now turned
33:19into police action.
33:21Assam police,
33:22assisted by Delhi
33:23police, reached
33:24Pawan Kheda's Delhi
33:25home after an
33:26FIR was registered by
33:28Riniki Bhuyan Sharma,
33:29wife of Chief
33:30Minister Himanta
33:31Biswasarma.
33:33Police claim
33:34incriminating material
33:35has been recovered
33:36from the residence
33:37and say a case has
33:39already been lodged
33:40with the crime branch
33:41in Goahati.
33:42But Kheda wasn't
33:43there.
33:44Police say they
33:45don't know his
33:46whereabouts and have
33:47made it clear that
33:48they will trace him.
34:08The crackdown comes
34:10after Kheda leveled
34:11explosive charges
34:12against Sharma and
34:13his wife.
34:14Kheda alleged that
34:15the chief minister's
34:16wife holds multiple
34:17passports.
34:18The couple owns
34:19properties in UAE
34:21and they have set up
34:22a company in the US.
34:24The BJP rejected
34:25the allegations outright
34:27as false, defamatory
34:30and politically
34:31motivated.
34:33Himanta Biswasarma
34:35की धर्मपत्नी
34:36Riniki Bhuyan Sharma
34:39के पास
34:42एक नहीं,
34:44दो नहीं,
34:46तीन पास्पोर्ट हैं.
34:48तीनों पास्पोर्ट
34:50लिविंग पास्पोर्ट हैं,
34:51एक्स्पायर नहीं हुए हैं.
34:53हम ये जानना चाहते हैं
34:54कि क्या
34:55Riniki Bhuyan Sharma
34:58बारत का पास्पोर्ट भी रखती हैं.
35:02Riniki Bhuyan Sharma
35:03has since hit back with an FIR,
35:05taking the battle from the political arena
35:07to the legal battlefield.
35:09And Himanta Biswasarma
35:11has gone on the offensive,
35:12mocking Khera,
35:13claiming he has fled to Hyderabad,
35:16a Congress-ruled state.
35:34The Congress is refusing to back down.
35:56All of this unfolding
35:58when there is less than 48 hours left.
36:00Sharma questions the nationalism
36:02and the nationality of others.
36:07This election battle has crossed
36:09into legal territory,
36:11with the countdown to polling period
36:13only raising the stakes.
36:16Bureau Report, India Today.
36:22All right, for a quick political face-off
36:24this evening,
36:25joining me, Ms. Nikhat Abbas,
36:26National Spokesperson Congress,
36:28Sanju Verma,
36:28National Spokesperson BJP,
36:30continues to be with us.
36:31Ms. Abbas,
36:33what happened to that press conference
36:34that Mr. Pawan Khera
36:36was to do this evening,
36:37taking on the FIR
36:39and the police action
36:40against him in Delhi?
36:42We haven't heard from him
36:43through the course of the day.
36:48Good evening, Preeti.
36:49To you, my co-panelists,
36:50Sanju and our viewers
36:51of India Today tonight.
36:53Before I answer your question,
36:55I want to tell to the viewers
36:57of India Today
36:57that what we are witnessing today
36:59is a blatant misuse
37:00of state machinery.
37:02It exposes how
37:03Himint Biswasarma,
37:05when he was asked
37:06legitimate questions
37:07by Pawan Khera ji,
37:08he has become so uncomfortable,
37:09uneasy,
37:10and he's so rattled
37:12that in record,
37:13he starts abusing
37:14Pawan Khera ji.
37:15That in record,
37:16he starts threatening
37:17Pawan Khera ji
37:18by saying,
37:18I see no difference
37:22between a sadak chhaap gunda
37:24and the sitting CM
37:26of a Sam Himint Biswasarma.
37:27And needless to say
37:29that when
37:30the political targeting
37:32like this
37:33or when the police
37:34are sent across the states
37:36just to silence the voices,
37:38it doesn't say
37:39that they are,
37:40you know,
37:40powerful
37:40or they have strength.
37:41It indicates
37:42that how
37:43darpok,
37:44how scary,
37:45how afraid
37:46these people are
37:47when they're asked
37:48legitimate questions.
37:49And I do not understand
37:51that has the Assam's
37:52law and order
37:53become so perfect
37:54that the Assam's
37:56police has all
37:56the time in the world
37:58to not look back
37:59at Assam's problems
38:00and violence,
38:01but to come
38:02and find nothing
38:03at Pawan Khera ji's residence.
38:05Can I hold your timer?
38:07Allow me to hold your timer.
38:09Nikhat Abbas,
38:10I asked you a question.
38:11No, no, no, no.
38:11Madam, allow me
38:12to hold your timer.
38:13Use it whichever way
38:13you want to.
38:14But let me ask you
38:15the question that I asked you,
38:16which is,
38:17where is that press conference
38:18by Mr. Pawan Khera
38:19where he,
38:20we were given to believe
38:21by the Congress
38:22that he will respond
38:23to the FIR charges
38:24and the police action
38:25at his house.
38:25We haven't heard from him.
38:26Where is Mr. Pawan Khera?
38:30You will soon hear
38:32from the party.
38:33You will soon have the words
38:35officially from the party
38:36on this.
38:37But do you tell me,
38:38Preeti,
38:39is it appropriate
38:39or is it adequate enough
38:41that just an FIR
38:43will do
38:44when there are financial
38:45from across the countries
38:47are involved,
38:48when the transactions
38:49are involved,
38:50when it's a matter
38:51of dual citizenship,
38:53it is the government's
38:54duty and responsibility
38:56to form an FIR.
38:57SIT
38:58and investigate
38:59into the matter.
39:00I do not understand
39:01that why is
39:02Hemant Biswas Sarma,
39:03the blue-eyed boy
39:05of Amit Shahji,
39:06is covered like this?
39:08Why is that?
39:08You do not want
39:09to form an SIT.
39:10You do not want
39:11to answer.
39:12Okay, your time is up.
39:13I'll come back to you
39:13for a rebuttal.
39:14I'm going to bring in
39:14Sanju Verma
39:15into this conversation.
39:16Sanju Verma,
39:17till now,
39:18what the allegations
39:20have been,
39:20the rebuttal
39:21from Hemant Biswas Sarma
39:22and his wife
39:23has only been
39:24that these are
39:25false documents.
39:26They have been forged
39:27by Pawan Khera.
39:28This is defamation.
39:29But let an investigation
39:32take place
39:32because the Congress
39:33is sticking to their ground.
39:34They are saying
39:35each and every
39:35allegation leveled
39:36is true.
39:38You know, Preethi,
39:40when Hemant Biswas Sarma
39:42leveled allegations
39:43against Gaurav Gogoi
39:47and Gaurav Gogoi's wife
39:48a couple of weeks back,
39:50I remember being
39:52on various television debates
39:54and I was told,
39:55BJP has to
39:56buttress its case
39:58by providing proof
40:00against Gaurav Gogoi's wife,
40:02Elizabeth Kolban.
40:03We showed that
40:06Gaurav Gogoi's wife,
40:07Elizabeth Kolban,
40:09was on the payrolls
40:10of an entity
40:11called Lead Pakistan
40:13and then
40:13she was on the payrolls
40:15of an entity
40:15called Lead India.
40:17We provided
40:18bank account details
40:19of Elizabeth Kolban.
40:20We provided
40:21an established
40:22money trail
40:23which showed
40:24that Elizabeth Kolban,
40:25Gaurav Gogoi's wife,
40:27was receiving money
40:28regularly
40:29from a Pakistani
40:30so-called NGO
40:31which belonged to whom?
40:33It belonged to a man
40:34called Ali Taukir Sheikh.
40:36Who is Ali Taukir Sheikh?
40:38Ali Taukir Sheikh
40:39is very closely associated
40:41with the Interior Ministry
40:42of Pakistan
40:43and anybody
40:44who has an IQ
40:45of more than 50
40:46knows that
40:47Ali Taukir Sheikh
40:48is an ISI asset.
40:51So net-net,
40:51what is the logical conclusion?
40:53Elizabeth Kolban
40:54was basically working
40:56for an ISI asset.
40:58Let me hold your timer.
41:02Sanju Garma,
41:02allow me to hold your timer.
41:03You said you provided proof.
41:04The Congress is saying
41:05we are providing
41:06the same proof.
41:06Number two,
41:07you said an investigation
41:08was carried out.
41:09Yes, Sanju Garma,
41:10an investigation
41:11was carried out
41:12and the findings
41:13of that investigation
41:14were submitted
41:14at the Home Ministry.
41:15Till date,
41:16we do not know
41:17what that investigation is.
41:18If the proof
41:19that you provided
41:20was true,
41:20this was an opportune
41:22ground right before
41:23an election in Assam
41:24when Mr. Gogoi
41:25is the Chief Minister
41:26of face to make
41:27the investigation public.
41:28That hasn't happened.
41:31You know,
41:32P.P.,
41:32what I fail,
41:33what I,
41:34can I start?
41:35P.P.,
41:36what I fail to understand,
41:38when Himanta Biswasarma
41:39makes allegations
41:40against Gaurav Gogoi
41:42and his British passport
41:43holding wife,
41:44Elizabeth Kolban,
41:46it is BJP
41:47which has to substantiate
41:48the allegations
41:49made by it.
41:50Now,
41:51when Pavan Khera
41:52has made allegations
41:53at Himanta Biswasarma's wife,
41:56it is against BJP
41:57which has to prove
41:59that it is innocent.
42:00Not any party
42:02has to do
42:02that the duty
42:03is that BJP
42:05has to do the needful
42:06in terms of
42:07proving its innocence.
42:09Okay,
42:10Sanju Varma,
42:10your time is up.
42:11Nikita Abbas,
42:12please respond.
42:16You know,
42:17Preeti,
42:17I have been in Assam
42:18and I was in Assam.
42:19I just came back
42:20this morning.
42:21It shocks me
42:22that Sanju Varma
42:23and the BJP party
42:24and the government
42:25are in the possession
42:26of so many documents
42:27again,
42:28Mr. Gogoi
42:28and his wife.
42:29Despite of that,
42:30Mr. Gogoi
42:31is seen,
42:31you know,
42:32going in the rallies,
42:33conducting the press conferences,
42:35conducting the sabhas
42:36and we are seeing
42:37that how Assam's people
42:38are looking forward
42:39to the win
42:40of Congress's party
42:41and Gaurav Gogoi
42:42soon in power.
42:44So,
42:44I do not understand
42:45that why is this
42:46rhetoric happening
42:47and Sanju Varma
42:48just exposed herself.
42:50Now,
42:50I just wanted to complete
42:51for 10 seconds
42:52at what I wanted
42:52to say earlier
42:53that how is that possible
42:54that Assam's police
42:56is so free
42:56because,
42:57you know,
42:58just coming to
42:58Pawan Khera Ji's house
43:00and trying to look
43:01for literally nothing
43:01because what NCRB data
43:03says,
43:03Preeti,
43:04it shocks me
43:04that there are
43:05more than 5,000 cases
43:06every year in Assam
43:07of rape of women.
43:09More than 25,000 cases
43:11of crime against women
43:12are registered in Assam
43:13annually.
43:15We see,
43:15every day we see
43:16the kidnapping cases,
43:17the violent crime cases
43:19are rising in Assam
43:20but the police of Assam,
43:22Hemant Abhiswa Sarma
43:23are dancing their dolls
43:25and I do not understand
43:27that how do they get
43:27so much of time
43:28to just go and do
43:29the political targeting.
43:30I mean,
43:30look back at your home,
43:32look at Assam,
43:33look at what the law
43:34and order is like
43:36in Assam
43:36and that is where
43:37you should be caught
43:38and that is where
43:38I need to close the show
43:41but once again
43:42we look forward
43:42to that press conference
43:44by Mr. Pawan Khera
43:46to actually elucidate
43:47because on the charges
43:49that he has levelled
43:50with the proof
43:51that he has levelled
43:52it with.
43:53All right,
43:53let's see what's up.
43:53.
43:53.
43:53.
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