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00:13Ahora, en Tribunal Justice.
00:51Today's case was filed in St. Peter, Minnesota.
00:55Your Honor, this is case number 3071, Lindquist versus Raybill.
00:59All parties have been sworn in.
01:01You may be seated.
01:03Thank you, Cassandra.
01:04You're welcome.
01:05Okay, Ms. Lindquist, according to your complaint, ma'am, you're suing your contractor for installing
01:10a poured cement patio that sloped towards your house and caused water to leak into your basement.
01:18You also say that the defendant was not a licensed contractor when he took your money
01:22and installed the defective cement patio.
01:24Yes.
01:25And you, therefore, are seeking damages in the amount of $6,791.
01:30Yes.
01:30And Mr. Raybill, although you admit to not being licensed, you've never been sued.
01:35No, sir.
01:35I am registered and licensed to the state.
01:37You are?
01:38Yeah, I brought the paperwork with.
01:40Fantastic.
01:40We'll take a look at that later.
01:41Yes, sir.
01:42You know the work that you did for the plaintiff, according to your answer, did not cause the
01:46water problem.
01:47Absolutely.
01:47Because according to you, she had indicated that there's been water in her basement for
01:51quite some time.
01:52That was part of the reason the patio went in.
01:54And you see this lawsuit is nothing more than a money grab from the plaintiff and you owe
01:59her nothing.
02:00Correct.
02:00All right.
02:01We'll start with you, Ms. Lindquist.
02:02It's your case.
02:03So tell us, how did you come to hire the defendant?
02:05A friend of mine was doing her patio and she gave me a phone number for another business
02:10in town.
02:11So I called the number and I got one number wrong and I ended up with Mr. Raybill.
02:17So it was by happenstance?
02:19Yes, yes.
02:20All right.
02:20So you call him.
02:21What do you tell him?
02:22I told him that I have water that leaks a little bit into the basement, so I'd like
02:28to put a patio up so that would stop.
02:30And did he go down to the basement to see the water?
02:32No.
02:32Is that correct, sir?
02:34At that point, I was not told about the water until we had done the first contract.
02:38She had said there would be, there was getting water in there.
02:40I said, well, we're only doing technically attached to the house, only a three foot section.
02:44Silicone behind with expansion joint should seal it up, but the home is older.
02:49The blocks are cracked.
02:51If you look at the yard, it's pitched right towards the house.
02:53Okay.
02:54Can we see the contract?
02:5507?
02:57That's a copy of your contract?
02:58Yes, sir.
02:58I will note that nowhere on that contract does it contain your license number, sir.
03:04Can you explain that?
03:05Don't have to put it on the...
03:06What the license number is?
03:08No.
03:09You just, as long as you are registered through the state and have a EIN, file number, certificate
03:15issued.
03:15I'll take a look at that, thank you.
03:17We'll start off with that.
03:20You're welcome.
03:25Nah.
03:27This isn't a license number, you know that, sir.
03:29Stop it.
03:29That's just paperwork from the state of Minnesota to open up a business, and that's why you have
03:34an EIN.
03:34I'm not talking about that.
03:35You were not a licensed contractor.
03:37As long as you're doing certain things and stay in that wheelhouse.
03:40Okay, so we can agree that you are not licensed.
03:43We can agree that I'm not a licensed contractor.
03:45A licensed concrete contractor.
03:47I'm not talking general contractor.
03:49That's why your license is not on your contract.
03:52Don't start off by lying.
03:53It's not going to end well for you.
03:56All right.
03:56So the contract, let's get back to that.
03:58It was for a 15 by 17 concrete patio.
04:01You gave a deposit.
04:02It was $1,888.
04:05Yes.
04:05That was for one half of the job, right?
04:07Mm-hmm.
04:08When was the other half due?
04:09When he was finished.
04:10Can we take a look at the photos of the house before the concrete was poured?
04:14That would be 01.
04:15This house used to be your father's house?
04:17Yes, sir.
04:18And this is a cinder block foundation, right?
04:20Yes, sir.
04:20Is that the way Mr. Rabel at the house looked before your concrete pad was put in?
04:24Yes, sir.
04:25All right.
04:26You see what I'm circling right there?
04:28Those are two rows of the cinder block foundation, correct?
04:32Correct.
04:32And before, Mr. Rabel, we were talking about water infiltration.
04:35So here I'm going to point to you an area right here.
04:39What am I circling right there?
04:41You're circling a gutter with no downspout.
04:43There you go.
04:44Right here is where a downspout would have gone, right?
04:47Correct.
04:48Okay.
04:48And that gutter would bring water towards the end of the house right here,
04:54and it would just flow right down, right into the foundation.
04:57Did you explain that in order to stop the water from going into the basement,
05:00you should probably put a downspout?
05:02I did mention you're going to need new gutters.
05:04They're leaking.
05:05Okay.
05:05There's missing downspouts.
05:07Now, can we take a look at the house after the concrete pad was poured?
05:11So I'll just notice right off the bat, right, that where we used to see two rows of cinder block,
05:17now based upon the way that the concrete was poured, we now only see one to one and a half,
05:23and it's pitched towards that corner of the house on the right.
05:26Correct.
05:27And I had mentioned that when we were doing it, but there was...
05:30No, that's okay.
05:30I get it.
05:31Yep.
05:31Let's take a look at 03, please.
05:34That's the basement.
05:36All right.
05:36This is you, Ms. Lindquist.
05:38This is a photograph of the basement that you provided us, correct?
05:40Yes.
05:40When was that photograph taken?
05:41Before or after the concrete was poured?
05:43After the concrete.
05:44Do you have any photographs before the concrete was poured?
05:46And there's a problem.
05:47You know, that's no secret to you.
05:48There's a problem with the cinder block foundation, right?
05:50Absolutely.
05:51Yeah.
05:51So would it be fair to say that you knew that even doing this concrete pad,
05:55you were still gonna get water in the basement?
05:57No, sir.
05:58Can we put up number 12, please?
06:00Right here, I'm circling.
06:02Mm-hmm.
06:02That's a huge gaping hole in your foundation, right?
06:05Mm-hmm.
06:06Of course it is.
06:07My point, ma'am, is that the state of disrepair of your concrete foundation
06:12was similar to that photograph right there around the house, right?
06:17Yes.
06:17Yes, sir.
06:18Of course it was.
06:19No.
06:19And you thought that a simple poured concrete pad was gonna fix all of those problems.
06:24Is that what you thought?
06:26Without putting on downspouts or anything like that?
06:28We had downspouts.
06:29We just took them down because he was gonna do the patio to come have him come look.
06:32We had downspouts up.
06:34Is that downspout just letting water out right on the lawn or is it in a French drain?
06:38It's right onto the lawn.
06:40Exactly.
06:41Got nothing further.
06:42Thank you, Judge Acker.
06:42Thank you, Judge.
06:43Mr. Rabel, I'm really trying to look at this from like the 50-foot approach
06:49because I don't know enough about this sort of work to really get into the weeds.
06:54So my question for you is why did you do something that you knew wasn't gonna solve the ultimate problem?
07:01Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
07:04Right after the patio is done, it rains and it just starts coming in like crazy.
07:08I'm gonna say I don't necessarily believe that.
07:16Homeowner Angela Lindquist claims Garrett Rabel's sloping concrete patio led to rainwater in her basement.
07:23She's suing for nearly $7,000 to remove and replace it.
07:27But Garrett says Angela's missing rain gutters are to blame.
07:31So he owes nothing.
07:32Why did you do something that you knew wasn't gonna solve the ultimate problem?
07:37She never brought up that that would solve the water problem.
07:40She wanted a patio to put her barbecue on, her lawn furniture and things of that nature.
07:46But you were aware of leakage.
07:48And that's why I mentioned the gutters.
07:49The other thing I recall in your testimony to Judge Levy was that the patio was kind of pitched toward
07:55the house.
07:56Was that your testimony?
07:57Yes, correct.
07:58So in that corner, once we got it done, there was a bit of a pitch.
08:01There still is.
08:03Correct.
08:03We don't have to be physicists here to know how water works on a slope.
08:07Correct.
08:07If it is sloped, then the water is gonna do what? Run down the slope.
08:11Well, the problem is that foundation, there was a level put on there. There is a little bit of a
08:15pitch.
08:16I can see it.
08:17Yes, correct.
08:17I mean, it's visible to the naked eye.
08:19And with that being said, I noticed that right away. I brought it to her attention.
08:23Initially.
08:24As soon as it was done, I brought it to Ms. Lindquist's attention.
08:27So you finished the work.
08:28Yes, ma'am.
08:29You see that there is still a slope. Does that mean that you didn't level it properly?
08:34I brought it to Ms. Lindquist.
08:35Okay, that's good. We're getting so far along right now. Let's just put up 10. Ms. Lindquist, you reached out
08:43to the city. And this is a communication from the city inspector to you, where the city inspector says the
08:50patio has fall or sloped toward the home rather than away.
08:54Yes.
08:54And according to the city, this is problematic. This is against regulations. This is why you're getting the leak.
08:59Yes.
08:59Now I'm going to go back to you, sir. The inspector goes on to say that he spoke to you
09:04about this and you said, I'm not going to correct the problem because I gave them a discount.
09:09Did you tell?
09:10I never spoke to the inspector.
09:12So this is a lie.
09:13I didn't speak to the inspector on this incident.
09:16Did you give them a discounted price?
09:18When I noticed there was an issue, I did. I brought it to her attention. I said, we can do
09:22one of two things. I can take it out and we can redo it or I can discount it.
09:27So why would they want to work with you again if you messed up?
09:31Because a good person would correct their work and at no charge.
09:36Or a good person would say, you know what? You're not happy. My bad. So here's your money back. Let's
09:41move on. Instead, you lawyered up.
09:44Yep. Because of when I asked, brought that to her attention right away. That was in June. We went all
09:49the way to October before I heard a single thing about any of this.
09:53Okay. Thank you, sir. Judge Mango.
09:56Okay, ma'am. Now, you said that you admitted that there was water in the basement. A little bit of
10:00water, you said.
10:01A little bit of water.
10:03It rained, yeah.
10:03Right.
10:04Nothing like now. Right after the patio is done, it rains and it just starts coming in like crazy.
10:09I'm going to say I don't necessarily believe that, but let's go along with the fact that we have seen
10:14photographs that there are gutters that were not maintained properly.
10:18We just took them down because he was coming and we were doing sighting. That's why we took them.
10:24So you had the photograph. Let's take a look at one. There you go. So we have three different areas
10:31here where wood could get in. The corner on the right that's closest to us.
10:35That's the garage.
10:36The piece over and above. We have the gutter by the door and then we have the area way in
10:42the back that where you don't have a proper drain on the bottom for the water to leave.
10:46So there are several ways within which water can get into the basement. Now, I do have a question for
10:52you, sir.
10:53Yes, ma'am.
10:53Now, you see those bricks on the bottom? I would imagine that if you're laying concrete, you would need to
10:58make an adjustment for that in some way. Let's go to 02. It does slope towards the door. And is
11:05that because you were laying that concrete over the bricks? Correct me if I'm wrong, sir.
11:12No, you are right, ma'am. I snapped a line and when I screeded it off in that one little
11:17area, there was an issue and I made sure she was aware of the issue and gave her options.
11:22So let me ask you, wasn't there a time that you offered to go back and redo it?
11:28No less than six times on the phone, not with her, but with the guy claiming to be her boyfriend.
11:34All I got was, we just want the money.
11:36No charge on that?
11:38No charge.
11:38Sir, would you just step up, please? Give us your name.
11:42Steve Kersmezik.
11:43Okay, Steve. Did you have a conversation with Mr. Rabel?
11:47Yes, I did.
11:47And when was that about?
11:49Um, it was not long after he poured the slab and it rained and the basement got wet.
11:56I called him and said, hey, the basement's wet. We have to do something about this.
12:01He relayed that he can come over and put some caulk in between the patio and the basement block.
12:09And if that doesn't cause the water to not seep in there, it's a different issue.
12:14Okay, now, did you have a conversation with him regarding the caulking?
12:19Possibly that. I don't remember. I know I said there was something we could do a cement sealer.
12:23And it wasn't a caulk, it was a cement sealer.
12:25So why would you not want to go with that alternative here?
12:28I can see when it rains that the water flows towards the door.
12:33Whereas where he was going to put caulk, it was just from the front of the door to the corner
12:38of the house there.
12:39But there was so much water coming in there that it was just a bandit.
12:43You just made the point. There's so much water coming there.
12:46That's because the water that was dropping down from the top was immediately dropping there.
12:52Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
12:55Show me where it says building inspector.
12:57Right at the bottom.
12:58What does it say? Read it.
12:59Building official.
13:00Building what?
13:02Official.
13:02But you wanted us to believe he was the building inspector.
13:11Homeowner Angela Lindquist is suing Garrett Rabel for nearly $7,000 for building a sloping concrete patio that funneled water
13:19right into her basement.
13:21Garrett says that missing rain gutters and a poor foundation are to blame.
13:25So he owes nothing.
13:27There's more than one thing happening here.
13:29He has some issues with regard to a slope.
13:31And there are things that were going on.
13:33And I know she's going to stick with her story that she removed those things because he was coming.
13:37It makes no sense that she would do that.
13:39Actually, I can explain that whole picture right there.
13:41You see how the green is on top?
13:43Yeah, the green.
13:44I was actually doing a siding job.
13:45Uh-huh.
13:46I was residing the house.
13:47Uh-huh.
13:48The downspout there is off because I had to re-side the house.
13:51I took the downspout off.
13:54And then I didn't put it back up because, as Angie relayed, Mr. Rabel was coming over to do the
13:59patio.
14:00So I'm not going to put the downspout down because he's just going to move it anyway.
14:04Sir, what is it that you want to say?
14:05I took this picture yesterday, and they're still not up.
14:08Oh, my God.
14:09Oh, no.
14:10What do you do?
14:10I don't even want to hear what you have to say now.
14:12May I see that photograph, please, Bird?
14:14Yes, ma'am.
14:15I took that yesterday.
14:16Oh, yesterday.
14:17She must have just taken it down the day before because she knew we were coming to court.
14:20Right.
14:20Wanted to clean them up.
14:21The reason I was there, I dropped my children off, which is just up the street, and just happened to
14:25drive by and said, whoa.
14:26And I think, on that note, I will pass the case.
14:30Ms. Lindquist, you're seeking damages in the amount of $6,791.
14:35Yes.
14:35We know that you paid $3,776.
14:40Yes.
14:41Both checks that you've prepared and signed off, Ms. Lindquist, one was for $1,887.90, and the other one
14:48was for $1,587.90.
14:50Because Mr. Rabel told you that there was a problem, and he'd take $300 off if you would accept it,
14:56and you agreed, and he accepted the $300 discount, and that's why you paid him $300 less.
15:01Can I tell you why he gave me the discount?
15:03Yeah.
15:03This, right here.
15:04Yeah, yeah, the stain.
15:05He didn't like the way it looked.
15:06Yeah, I get it.
15:07It was a cosmetic defect.
15:08Yes.
15:08And you'd agree with that, right?
15:10That was part of it, yes.
15:11I get it, but that's $300 off.
15:12Okay.
15:13You're suing for $6,791.
15:15Yes, sir.
15:16What's the other money for?
15:18Taking it out.
15:19And that's with him doing it.
15:21It was $539.38 to rent the Bobcat.
15:26That's not money that you actually have already paid.
15:28That is an anticipatory payment, right?
15:31Correct.
15:31And you just decided not to fix this and allow water to continue dripping in your basement for the last
15:36eight months.
15:36Why?
15:37Well, we had to leave it because we were going to court.
15:40What do you mean?
15:40You fix it, you come to court, you look for reimbursement like everybody else, as opposed to asking for an
15:44anticipatory payment,
15:45because if it's an anticipatory payment, I have absolutely no faith whatsoever that if we awarded you that extra money,
15:51you would actually rent that equipment.
15:52The last thing is the building inspector, that's what you called him?
15:55Yeah.
15:56I deal with building inspectors, all right?
15:58I represented a town that deals with building inspectors.
16:00And building inspectors don't say, I don't believe the contractor is licensed.
16:06That's, by the way, I looked and I made sure that you weren't licensed.
16:09But what the building inspector says is not licensed.
16:12That's what the building inspector says.
16:14It's from the building inspector.
16:16I mean...
16:17Show it.
16:17Show it to her.
16:18This is your letter.
16:19Show me where it says building inspector.
16:21Show me where.
16:22Right at the bottom.
16:23What does it say?
16:23Read it.
16:24You want me to read it?
16:25Building official.
16:27Building what?
16:28Official.
16:29But you wanted us to believe he was the building inspector.
16:33You know he's not the building inspector.
16:35Correct.
16:36I got nothing further.
16:37Two quick follow-ups.
16:39When you said in your answer, sir, you told them you'd come out and hammer out the concrete
16:45and fix it, how long would it have taken you to hammer it out?
16:49Half a day to hammer it out.
16:51Would you need a skid loader?
16:53No.
16:53You could do it in a half a day with a jackhammer and a wheelbarrow.
16:55So approximately half a day.
16:57Correct.
16:58And Ms. Lindquist, the work he did maybe needed fine tuning.
17:02Why not let him fine tune it and just be done with it?
17:05He's not licensed.
17:06He's not licensed.
17:07You're doing what he did.
17:09If he got hurt.
17:10Okay.
17:10On my property.
17:11So you are now very, very concerned about his lack of license.
17:14I do have insurance.
17:15Yes, I do.
17:15I got it.
17:16I got it.
17:17Thank you.
17:17Anybody?
17:18Then we're going to retire you to deliberate.
17:20Sir, you may resume your seat.
17:21Thank you very much.
17:22Court is now on recess.
17:23Parties will be recalled.
17:32I had a real tough time with this case.
17:34On the one hand, the plaintiff would have us believe that it was because of the defendant's
17:40shoddy work that water was leaking into her basement and that that's why she's entitled
17:45to not only a refund, but also all the work to fix it.
17:49But you know, at the same time, it doesn't really make a difference because the defendant
17:54finally admitted that he was not licensed and you need to be licensed to pour concrete in Minnesota.
18:00So should the defendant be prohibited from keeping the proceeds of what is in Minnesota,
18:08as most places, his criminal conduct?
18:09It's a crime to perform home improvements like this without a license.
18:13Would she be entitled to that money back?
18:16But on the other hand, her credibility, in my opinion, was shot to hell.
18:20So I would love to hear what you guys have to say about it.
18:23I'd be inclined to reimburse them the $3,474 they paid him solely because the work wasn't
18:30done properly.
18:31I mean, he admits that it's not leveled and that he didn't level it properly.
18:35And so he shouldn't keep all of the money for it.
18:38I'm not necessarily on that same page.
18:40First of all, I can find her credible.
18:42And there's nothing about the evidence that she submitted that convinces me by a preponderance
18:47of the evidence, A, that she's still getting water into the basement and that much of the
18:51cause of this was not from the faulty gutters and drains and all that she has around the house.
18:56Technically, he's not licensed, but he did go out.
18:59He did do the work.
19:00She did get some unjust enrichment by what's there.
19:03I haven't even proved that she's going to knock this down other than her boyfriend says,
19:06I'm going to go out and rent a thing and knock it down.
19:08So I'm not going to give her for this patio removal that they're going to go about and
19:13do themselves also unlicensed.
19:15But the bottom line is she's willing to have somebody else come in and do that who is unlicensed.
19:20That is completely true.
19:21And pay him.
19:21Yeah.
19:21And the fact that she's making an issue, to your point, just makes her even less credible.
19:26But at the end of the day, it is sloping.
19:28It's not right.
19:29And she shouldn't have to pay for something that is not right.
19:32I believe that what she should get back is the $3,475.80 that she paid.
19:36And this anticipatory stuff, she should get nothing back.
19:39I would join that.
19:40I have a difficult time with the fact that he goes back yesterday and finds that, you
19:44know, she lied.
19:45She says, oh, no, of course, we just took those off because we were going to fix the roof.
19:49And it was still there.
19:50I mean, she was blatantly lying.
19:51I know.
19:51So I'm not willing to award her anything on testimony that's not credible.
19:55Let me throw out one thing here.
19:57Really?
19:57We're so close.
19:57I know.
19:58It's food for thought.
19:59I'm not even sure I'm eating this food.
20:02But if it's possible for it to be corrected with a hammering, just by like some minor improvements,
20:10is she getting some benefit of some of his work?
20:13Because I'm a little bit persuaded by the fact that I don't think her problems should
20:18all be at his feet, but it's a sloping patio.
20:21Like, can you cut off a section like this and raise it?
20:23Is there some benefit that she's obtaining from this work?
20:26Can I tell you, if we were to give her that money, she was not going to be using it
20:30to
20:30pay her boyfriend to knock off all of that.
20:33And I just don't find what she's saying credible, regardless of what he did.
20:36I get it.
20:36I've made those same arguments in other cases.
20:38I get it.
20:39Yeah.
20:39All right.
20:39So I'll stick with joining.
20:41Thank you.
20:42Thank you.
20:42I dissent.
20:43Yeah.
20:47Court is back in session.
20:48All parties are reminded that you're still under oath.
20:50We have deliberated and we have reached a verdict, but it is not unanimous.
20:55If it were up to Judge DiMango, Miss Lindquist, you would not get a penny.
21:00Judge DiMango did not believe that you met your burden, the damage and the water infiltration.
21:05She believes, as quite frankly, both Judge Acker and I do, happened well before the problems
21:11with the work that the defendant did and that this really wasn't going to change.
21:15You had much bigger issues with your basement foundation.
21:19That was her position.
21:20And she would therefore have dismissed your claim.
21:24However, Judge Acker and I are in the majority.
21:27And, Mr. Rabel, I was more of a stickler about the fact that you were not licensed.
21:32And Judge Acker, she recognizes it, but her bigger issue was that the plaintiff did not get what she paid
21:39for.
21:39She paid for a level concrete pad and she got a sloping pad.
21:44Now, did that cause the damage to the basement?
21:47Maybe.
21:48It most certainly didn't make it better, but it most certainly wasn't leveled like it should have been.
21:53So, therefore, it is the judgment of the majority that the plaintiff, Miss Lindquist,
21:58you should be reimbursed for the job that he did, $3,475.80 and nothing else.
22:08What you choose to do thereafter is on you.
22:11And, Mr. Rabel, get licensed.
22:13Thank you.
22:15This case has concluded.
22:16All parties are excused.
22:22I asked multiple times, where is the water leak?
22:24And she never told me.
22:25He never asked to see the inside of the basement.
22:27What she was asking for was crazy.
22:29Next time, I will check to make sure they have a license.
22:32We'll get the license.
22:33I mean, it's just a quick test.
22:36He just kind of blew it off.
22:37I like satisfied customers, bottom line.
22:39And this one you couldn't satisfy.
22:42Have you been scammed?
22:44Let the majority rule in your favor on Tribunal Justice.
22:48Find us on social media.
22:57American Myths on the절ity!
22:58Just wait for it.
23:11Thanks for watching!
23:12Have a great night!
23:13Don't forget to go to my reconst 위해ogi.
23:14Go cop за свидание!
23:26You and the Moon!
23:27The Machine.
23:27Gracias por ver el video.
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