00:00Education is a fundamental human right. However, today, Afghanistan stands out as tragically as the only country in the world
00:07where secondary and higher education is strictly forbidden to girls and women.
00:11Over two million adolescent girls have been banned from attending secondary school, severely limiting their future opportunities and indeed the
00:19country's development.
00:20They're not allowed into parks or gyms either. Indeed, women's rights are more or less non-existent since the Taliban
00:26retook control.
00:27Today, as UNESCO publishes its Global Education Monitoring Report, we're looking at the situation in Afghanistan.
00:32And to bring us her insight, we can speak now to Afghan author and human rights activist, a refugee herself
00:37here in Paris.
00:38Mursal Saez, thanks so much for your time and bringing us your insight.
00:42If we can start simply with the education in Iran, if you can bring us that global picture.
00:47I mean, little girls are allowed to go to school, but as soon as they become teenagers, it all suddenly
00:51stops.
00:53Good morning. Thank you so much for paying attention to this issue.
00:58I am sure you mean Afghanistan.
00:59Well, we are in the 21st century and Afghanistan remains the only country in the world that the girls are
01:07banned from going to school, attending secondary and higher education schools.
01:12And education. So this is so sad. This is frustrating.
01:16It means behind these two million children that you mentioned, there are stories, there are futures.
01:21And just imagine it has been five years, women and girls are banned from so many activities, especially from schools
01:27and educations.
01:28And this five years of 15 years old girl, now she is 20 and she lost five years for nothing.
01:35They could be for now they could be graduated from university, even though.
01:40So I think this is a shame and this is a huge catastrophe in the world.
01:45We don't have any other example of countries in the world as Afghanistan today.
01:51So, yeah, that's true.
01:53The girls and women are banned from school, from education, from work, from expressing themselves.
02:00Just the girls after 12 years old, they have nothing behind in front of them for that day.
02:06They just have to stay at home and cook and clean.
02:09I have my cousins and I have my friends, children in Afghanistan.
02:15They are so disappointed when we talk with them.
02:18And if they're 13 years old or 12 years old, they just don't have anything to do.
02:24And they're waiting for the day the schools open.
02:28And this is what we call it in France, Montre Scolarité.
02:31In Afghanistan, it starts these days.
02:33Now it's the third day that schools are started.
02:36They just watch their brothers go to school and their neighbours, the men and the boys, they go to school.
02:42And they just watch them, disappointedly.
02:45This is what they're facing right now.
02:47And you mentioned there, Marcel, that women are also not allowed to work.
02:51I mean, are there female doctors, nurses, teachers?
02:54I mean, where are all the women?
02:56And then how does society function if all the women are made to stay at home?
03:01Well, the society doesn't function the way that we see it right now in Afghanistan.
03:06It's not functioning.
03:07It's just function for the interests of the Taliban and the people who support the Taliban.
03:13Women are not allowed to work.
03:14Women are not allowed to go outside of their homes.
03:17And it's different from village to the village, to cities to the cities, and from different authorities to the different
03:23authorities.
03:24It is different, the way they treat women outside and even inside.
03:30This new law they just issued, it bans the women even from talking out loud.
03:37And they criminalised the actions even the women don't know.
03:43I'm so sorry, I have a call today.
03:45So yeah, they criminalised the very simple actions the women do.
03:48So the female doctors and the female nurses, few of them still can work, while the education, having a medical
03:58education is banned for women.
03:59Even they cannot become midwives and they cannot serve as a midwife.
04:03But those who still are continuing support with a lot of restriction, with a lot of limitation,
04:08they have to be accompanied with their chaperone, with a man, and go to the work.
04:12And if they don't, and the restriction of wearing, if they are wearing the clothes that the Taliban think, that's
04:19not proper.
04:20They could be punished, they could be sent back home, they could be banned to work even there.
04:25And a lot of insult and violence they are facing.
04:28It sounds such extreme levels of really women not being allowed to exist in many levels at all.
04:33They're trapped in their homes.
04:35And what are men doing?
04:38Well, the men's situation is not also as good.
04:42It's not a haven for men.
04:44So it's hard for everyone.
04:46Just imagine a father or a brother that their children are at home and couldn't even go outside or have
04:52access to education.
04:53Or just their wives are at home.
04:55And even the women who are the head of the families and they don't have any future.
05:02And those men who belong to them.
05:04Of course, it's frustrating and sad for everyone.
05:07And the men can be punished for what they wear as well, for what they think, for what they do.
05:13And even for being nice with women, they can be punished.
05:18Meanwhile, the law gave them a lot of power to punish the women.
05:22This new law they issued gave the men the power to punish women.
05:26Before they were flagging, for example, the flagging for the women was by the Taliban regime.
05:32And now they give this power to the men.
05:35And, well, that is that we see not so many men are protesting against this or not so against it.
05:42But still, Afghanistan is not a heaven for the men.
05:46Okay.
05:47I also believe that, you know, the Internet, not only are people being, women in particular, not being allowed into
05:52schools, gyms, anywhere really public, unless they're covered and accompanied, as you were saying.
05:56Even for treatment, I believe, in medical situations.
05:59But also even in their own homes, they're being increasingly cut off with the Internet and all that and even
06:03telephones being removed.
06:06Exactly, exactly.
06:07Today, when the women, anyone in Afghanistan, they have to, if they want to have a SIM card, they have
06:12to register it.
06:13Like any kind of SIM card, they have to register it, which means the Taliban have access to any kind
06:18of information, any kind of contact that people have outside.
06:23Even though it's not just about the telephone, they installed cameras on every door in Afghanistan, especially in Kabul and
06:28some places that they think they will be against the Taliban more than the other places.
06:34So they installed cameras on every door.
06:36They asked the people to buy the cameras, to pay for the electricity, to pay for the Internet expenses, which
06:43is so high in Afghanistan, and to be surveillance by the Taliban, which is funny and which is sad at
06:49the same time.
06:50And, yeah, especially even if sometimes we see here people are so much promoting the secret schools, the schools through
06:58Internet, online.
06:59And what I believe is the children, they all belong to school.
07:02They have to go to school.
07:03They should go to school, sit in their classes and enjoy and play and laugh and study.
07:09It's not just learning from Internet.
07:11So, first of all, we don't have that much good Internet in Afghanistan.
07:13We don't have electricity.
07:15And it's the Taliban, if they want, they can ban.
07:17Also, they filter to the Internet.
07:19They have filtered so many applications.
07:21They have filtered so many words, even, so we cannot pronounce them and they can be cut off by the
07:28aid of the Chinese government.
07:30So, yeah, everything is surveillance there.
07:34And Taliban have access to any kind of information of the people.
07:37So people know their lives have been watched all the time.
07:40Now, you yourself, you fled Afghanistan in 2021 when the Taliban retook power.
07:45I mean, how hard is that?
07:47I know so many had to do the same.
07:50Well, yeah, we left.
07:52I left in the evacuation process on August 2021.
07:56And today it is getting every day more dangerous and more harder for the people who want to live the
08:01country.
08:01And there are so many people who want to live the country under the Taliban.
08:06And violence is not a country to live.
08:09People are disappointed.
08:11They don't see any future for themselves and for their children and for the next generation.
08:15So if they want their children to go to school, if they want to breathe outside of home, they want
08:20to live.
08:21And it's getting harder for everyone.
08:23And every day I receive messages from women, from men, from young, from teenagers.
08:28They are asking, do you know any scholarship if I can apply?
08:31Do you know if there is any organization who can support women and girls?
08:35So the journalists and it's super hard for the journalists, for the media to be independent.
08:41First of all, they cannot be independent.
08:42But with that even, the women who cannot attend and their voices are cut off during the conferences, the press
08:49conferences.
08:50So, yeah, that's the life there.
08:53People are disappointed with the situation.
08:55But, of course, they are trying to resist in different ways.
08:57And Marcel, very quickly before we leave you, but, you know, I know you are an activist for human rights.
09:02I mean, is there anybody working with you?
09:05I know you've been advocating to get rights for people in Afghanistan.
09:08What kind of help is the international community providing?
09:12Exactly.
09:12There are so many.
09:14There are activists inside Afghanistan who are resisting against the Taliban, especially women movements, feminist movements after 2021 to now.
09:22And the diaspora, the Afghanistan diaspora outside, they are advocating very actively in different levels, in the United Nations and
09:30in European Parliament level.
09:33So many different levels they are trying to keep the Afghanistan issue alive among all these other crises who are
09:41going on in the world, which is also sad and catastrophic.
09:45And for now, the international community responses were at least not that bad that we expected.
09:52So, for example, the accountability mechanism, the ICC and ICG decision and the People Tribunal in Spain, these are the
10:03things, gender apartheid campaign, these are the steps we can count on for now.
10:08I'm going to try and put some pressure.
10:09Okay, Mursal, Saez, thanks so much for your time and joining us here on France 24.
10:13Very much appreciated.
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