00:00To understand in a better manner what sort of struggles and challenges women deal with
00:26while they live in Afghanistan under Taliban regime I have a very special guest with me
00:31her name is Meena Sharif she is an Afghan Canadian author producer and an advocate for women's rights
00:38in Afghanistan she was raised in Canada as part of the Afghan diaspora and then in 2005 she moved to
00:46Kabul and she lived there for a very long time of 14 years until 2019 thank you so much for speaking
00:53on such an important issue which we all must talk about and continue to talk about as an international
01:00community because women in Afghanistan are really suffering and suffocating under the Taliban regime
01:06you went to Kabul in 2005 you lived there for such a long time how was your experience at that time and
01:13how it is in contrast to now what you hear coming out of Afghanistan from your friends or maybe from
01:20people you are in touch with um I would like to thank you um not only for having me but for
01:26addressing this topic I'd like to start by really reminding everyone that when women's rights are
01:32infractured it's not only an Afghanistan issue it really affects women all over the world because
01:38when it's allowed in one place that kind of um struggle carries out into the rest of the world when
01:45we offer the permission for women to be treated this way um it really opens the door for a lot of
01:51patriarchal and inhumane treatment of women around the world um when I first arrived in Afghanistan it
01:58was very soon after the first round of Taliban um and initially in my earlier year uh years um there was
02:06a lot of hesitation from women and to participate in society to really be out I mean they were coming from
02:13uh years of um really intense suffering and what I noticed was in a very short time it took so
02:24little time so much movement happened so fast we would have women so actively participating that you
02:31could from one day hardly seeing them in public spaces in society to really seeing them at almost a
02:3850 50 50 in every sector um not necessarily by job position but by representation they were
02:45they were really taking um leadership roles and actively contributing to society what I see and
02:53hear now is not a loss of that drive to be part of society but the loss of the opportunity not only to
03:00do it but to even dream about doing it and that is continuously cut off further by the decrees that keep
03:06piling up on them right um you know one of the dictates which Taliban gave very recently was
03:14the ban on women authored books I mean that's obviously their goal is isolation erasure lack
03:22of opportunity and really crippling the women of Afghanistan um because it's not only Afghan uh sorry
03:28Afghan women authors or women authors in general that they can't read from it's the subject matter that
03:34they're that they're isolating as well um there's a ban on gender and development as a subject there's
03:40a ban on women in sociology as a subject uh they're not allowed to learn about human rights that's
03:45literally been said that they're not allowed to learn about it and I think their hope is that with
03:49time and the continued ignoring from the rest of the world they can isolate um women to the extent that
03:56they're no longer demanding those rights because they don't know to um I think that's the ultimate goal
04:02um however the past has shown us that their powers did not work over women in Afghanistan women even
04:09in their last reign of power continued to learn had secret schools continued to pass down lessons
04:15continued to teach literacy wrote poetry wrote stories I don't think that they have the control
04:21over Afghan women that they dream of having and I don't think they ever fully will you also recently
04:26wrote a book uh which is titled your war our lives what is this book about what do you address how it
04:33can be of help for people around the world to understand better uh what women in Afghanistan go through
04:40um sure I mean it's a fiction collection so it's really not like uh uh meant to be like a textbook or
04:48fact base there's so many books out there that can kind of um enlighten people on the history of
04:54Afghanistan how we got here how women are treated um my book was meant to offer a glimpse into what
05:00daily life really looked like for people especially in the era that I was there it's pretty it's um
05:05it's set in that time and to see the kind of growth and the kind of hopes and dreams and strengths of
05:11the Afghan population while war is still present while fear is still present while limitations are still
05:18present because they were they were all the the difficulties were present in that glory period
05:24as well so that's what the book focuses on and um within that book is also the reality that Taliban
05:32made this difficult Taliban made people um fear re-entering society because of the the threat of
05:39violence and the continued violence that they inflicted on the exact population that they claim to
05:44understand so well now but these fictional stories that you've written the stories in your book it
05:51must have some sort of uh understanding and you hearing first-hand accounts of people who are living
05:58in Afghanistan yeah sure I mean this was what I was the community I was I was a part of so while it's not
06:05from my point of view I'm sharing stories like a young woman who has her own television show something
06:12that just a few years before that era was impossible to dream about kind of like right now as asking a
06:19young woman right now to dream about having her own television show would be outside of her realm of
06:24imagination possibly because you're not even allowing her to read a book however they kept their dreams alive
06:30in those in those times and then they reached those goals so quickly and that's what gives me hope that
06:36this era too is a pause and not a complete end to anything in the book I follow um their successes
06:44but also want to illustrate that it has never been fully easy just because the opportunities arose it
06:51still came with combating um mindsets and combating security threats and combating all kinds of things
07:00and I kind of wanted to show the nuance in that yes we're we are hard like hard-working women resilient
07:06women um and not just women children men resilient people but the challenges are always there while the
07:14strength is evident at all times as well so the stories are anecdotal that you'll you'll hear about
07:21her you'll hear about a young boy who lives in an orphanage you'll read about um a woman who was a cleaning
07:27lady for um foreign visitors I want really people to see that while this uh 20 years of international
07:36presence in Afghanistan was happening they were failing to ask about the people themselves so this
07:42is what the stories are focused on what their life looked like I was reading a story very recently where
07:49it was talking about how yes of course there are not opportunities in education healthcare work you can't
07:55go to an office and work there but there are opportunities where women can take up work from
08:00home they can do some handicraft work and there was a lot of exaggeration how they are still getting
08:06opportunities do you think this is hypocritical of the international community to be talking about
08:12opportunities in Afghanistan but not truly giving them what they desire for yeah I mean offering the
08:18option of handicrafts to somebody who wanted to be a doctor is highly insulting and it's very whitewashing of
08:24the um of the infringement of human rights that's going on in Afghanistan um it's the biggest
08:30disappointment I think the Afghan population has had the Taliban is just being the Taliban they're
08:34being who they've always been it's the world that's really disappointed the population because not only
08:40should they be doing better for 20 years they claimed they were there to support the women they were
08:46there to support the population but that all just disappeared overnight but now when you talk to people
08:52living there they must be you know adapting to the situation because they can't really do much they
08:58can't flee because the neighboring nations are no good so what do they then do I mean how do they cope
09:04with the situation I don't think adapting is really possible just because there's no end in sight they don't
09:11know what one day will bring a new um limitation and another limitation and and they really don't know what's
09:18left to be taken away but they know that the Taliban continues to find new ways to limit their
09:24opportunities um so they live in the fear of what is next of course um and the emotions really range from
09:31people I speak to obviously because different people react in different ways but uh anger is consistent
09:37the ones who find the energy are angry there are still people protesting even to this day which is mind-blowing to
09:43know that you've been ignored for four years and to continue demanding and risking your life knowing no one
09:48is coming to help you is just um I think uh such a symbol of of their insistence for human rights for
09:56themselves um but also many are depressed also many are extremely tired and it can be very hard to continue
10:04keeping yourself busy in the hopes that things will change I think that's what they're they're forced to do
10:10I often ask this question to people when I talk about Afghanistan what is it that we can do to
10:16resolve it because seems like people talk about it but there's not much happening a lot of countries say
10:23we don't want to legitimize Taliban which some say quote-unquote a terrorist group um then what is it that
10:31we can do there is no arrest there is no diplomatic pressure there are no sanctions uh which is so big so
10:38that Taliban can act right I mean there's two ways to look at it it's what can we do to stop the
10:46Taliban but I always look at it as what can we do to stop supporting the Taliban right they they are
10:52not they are not in power all by themselves unfortunately even countries like India are
10:57interacting with their leadership um taking them in the direction of legitimacy although they haven't
11:03recognized them as an official government they're leading they're meeting with their leaderships
11:07just in January in Dubai for example having conversations with their ministers talking
11:12about trade in Taliban is quite happy and um recognizing India as a trade partner when you
11:18speak out against your own government for the uplifting of Taliban I think that's the strongest
11:24move versus anything else because it's when we stop giving them the power that we can talk about
11:31solutions on alternatives but we can't just talk about how do we get rid of them while still uplifting
11:38them while watching our governments from the west and from everywhere else continue to just not only
11:44look the other way but start to explore opportunities to work with them that just makes them stronger
11:51but I think ultimately I mean definitely it's very important for governments to put pressure on Taliban
11:56but it's also about the people of Afghanistan who are living there because ultimately if even if
12:01you're carrying out trade uh it is somehow helping the economy of Afghanistan and it will ultimately
12:07lift the people of Afghanistan you know what do you think because often when I talk to uh people who
12:14are activists for the rights of people in Afghanistan they talk about how resilient are the people over
12:19there of course you talked about various emotions that they deal with anger sadness depression but they are
12:25also very resilient but they're not I think I'm I think as Afghans we're very tired of being called
12:31resilient all they're doing is not dying they don't want to be resilient they want they want rights they
12:37want prosperity they want to be able to I mean and there's two conversations I agree with you that trade
12:44helps economy of Afghanistan to an extent but there's separate conversations today we're talking about women
12:50when you do that trade you are whitewashing what this government is doing with the women and it has
12:56to be all one package unfortunately when we see a government um conducting this kind of violation
13:02we have to say although we want this with you it has to be on the condition that you do not violate human
13:09rights this way so I think if we could demand our governments to do that that is kind of a win-win right
13:16um but I don't think that resilience is something we want to be proud of we want to say hey we deserve
13:22rights like everybody else please stand with us demand it for us and also it will carry out into the rest
13:29of the world I think in particularly the west is ignoring it as as if it's never gonna get over here
13:34and it's never gonna reach Europe and it's never gonna and it will and that's the scariest part I think
13:40is that people are uh I think uplifting the behavior as well the countries around the world uh we have a
13:48really bad habit uh to forget about things when Kabul fell it was very hot topic a lot of people
13:55are you know putting out statements condemning Taliban but now people don't seem to care about
14:00Afghanistan and I think our international bodies need to do more about it thank you thank you likewise
14:06and thank you again for keeping the voice of Afghan women alive I appreciate that
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