- 6 weeks ago
Melissa Bernstein co-founded Melissa & Doug and built it into a billion-dollar children's toy company. Along the way, she learned a lot about entrepreneurship, which she shares in her new book The Heart of Entrepreneurship. Today, for the first time publicly, she shares the three-part strategy she used to fight back and what happened the moment new ownership stopped following it.
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00:00Running a business means solving problems.
00:03I tell you how the smartest entrepreneurs do it.
00:06Hi, I'm Jason Pfeiffer, Editor-in-Chief of Entrepreneur Magazine,
00:08and this is Problem Solvers.
00:15Of all the incredibly hard things about entrepreneurship,
00:19this might be the hardest.
00:20You come up with a great idea.
00:22You pour everything you have into it,
00:25all of your energy, all of your love, all of your money.
00:28You get it to market, it works, people like it,
00:32and then because people like it,
00:33other people noticed that it is a successful idea,
00:37and then they knock you off.
00:38They just steal everything that you have done,
00:41and they come out with a version that is,
00:43if not exactly the same, then really similar,
00:46and they start to steal your thunder.
00:49So what do you do?
00:49Today, I am talking with someone who knows the answer to that
00:52because she has dealt with it so often
00:54and yet still built a brand that I love,
00:58that my kids love.
00:59I am so excited today to talk to you, Melissa Bernstein,
01:02co-founder of Melissa and Doug Toys.
01:04Melissa is on tour right now, so to speak,
01:07for her new book, which is fantastic,
01:09called The Heart of Entrepreneurship,
01:11Crafting Your Authentic Recipe for Success,
01:13and we are talking today about this one particular part
01:16of the recipe, which is how to survive the knockoffs.
01:19Melissa, welcome to Problem Solvers.
01:20I'm so excited you're here.
01:21I am so excited to talk about this topic
01:23because I don't talk about it at all,
01:25so it's going to be really fun.
01:27Oh, wow.
01:28I'm so glad to hit something that feels like new
01:31and fresh in the world of Melissa and Doug.
01:32I mean, you must have dealt with this so often
01:35because your toys, anybody who has kids
01:37who have had your toys knows,
01:39they are, at their heart, so simple.
01:42They are tactile.
01:44They are puzzles.
01:47They are, you know, lifting letters.
01:50They're the kinds of things that kids need,
01:52but they're also, frankly, the kinds of things
01:54that are really easy to knock off.
01:55And so you must have dealt with this so often.
01:58We did because our concepts really weren't patentable.
02:01And one of the hardest things was we were most often knocked off
02:05by our own large customers,
02:07which made it even a more complex issue
02:10because you can't necessarily go with some of the,
02:15you know, litigation route that you would want to
02:18because they're also still one of your largest customers.
02:21And what do you mean by that?
02:23Like who, like what kind of large customer,
02:24what are we talking about?
02:25Everyone you can imagine.
02:26I mean, Target, Walmart, Amazon, Toys R Us,
02:30when they were in business,
02:31every single one of them ultimately ended up copying
02:35our best ideas and coming out with them
02:36under their own private label brands.
02:39Right.
02:40And then just selling that right alongside yours.
02:42Yep.
02:42Because all these customers are looking to get higher margins.
02:47So basically if they can do it factory direct in their own brand,
02:51they're going to cut out what we are,
02:53which would be a middleman, I guess you'd call it.
02:56Yeah.
02:57Yeah.
02:57So how did you start?
02:59How did you deal with this?
03:01Maybe even before you came up with what I know
03:03is now a formula for dealing with this.
03:05If you can take me back to when you guys first encountered this,
03:08what did you think and what did you try to do?
03:12Oh my goodness.
03:13If you knew, the first time this happened
03:16was with our very first product, our fuzzy puzzle.
03:20And that was back in early 1990s.
03:25And we heard from a customer that someone had copied our one product,
03:30which of course for us, it was our only product.
03:32It was life or death.
03:34I mean, we had, as you mentioned,
03:36we had poured every single ounce of our energy,
03:39our money, our time into this.
03:41And we heard that a retailer had it in New Jersey.
03:44We were in Connecticut and we immediately,
03:47we were in an all out panic attack, both Doug and I.
03:50We jumped into our beat up car
03:52and we drove all the way to New Jersey to this store
03:55to try to see what they were talking about.
03:59And the interesting fact was
04:01when we finally saw what they were talking about,
04:04we both breathed a sigh of relief
04:06because although it was indeed a copy,
04:10it wasn't a well-done copy.
04:13And it was done differently than ours.
04:17And that's when we said,
04:18whew, it's a copy,
04:20but they missed a lot of the nuance
04:23that made our product really special.
04:25Yeah.
04:26Although I bet a lot of people experience exactly that,
04:29whereas it's a copy,
04:30but it's also not a well-done copy.
04:32And yet a not well-done copy has its own kind of risks,
04:36doesn't it?
04:37Because number one,
04:38people can buy the crappy thing
04:41and then think that it's a Melissa and Doug product.
04:44And then it is harming your reputation,
04:46even though you had nothing to do with it,
04:47or it's a crappy thing,
04:49but also it is half the price of yours.
04:52And so people are like,
04:53ah, well, it doesn't really matter.
04:54I'll just get the crappier thing.
04:56And if it's a little crappy,
04:57at least I saved some money.
04:58So like either way, this is a threat.
04:59It is.
05:01And one of the variables for if something is a copy
05:05when it's a non-patented product is,
05:07does it cause confusion in the marketplace?
05:10And when it was online, like on Amazon,
05:13and this happened, unfortunately, every day,
05:15like it started to happen scores of times each day.
05:19You know, I would even look online
05:21and sometimes I'd think that someone's copy was my product.
05:25That was a problem.
05:27And we did start to get calls of people
05:29wanting to return something that they thought was ours.
05:32And when we asked them for the serial number,
05:34it wasn't ours.
05:35It was a poorly made copy of ours
05:39that didn't perform like it was supposed to.
05:41And then one of the other complexities
05:43that started to happen was
05:44people would put up phony reviews overnight.
05:47So they'd actually have 100 five-star reviews
05:51for a very subpar product.
05:54So people would be very angry
05:56because they would buy it thinking
05:58that it was going to perform at a certain level.
06:00And then they'd be ultra disappointed
06:02and they'd call us with something they thought was ours
06:05that wasn't ours.
06:06So this problem has gotten a little better over time.
06:11You know, we, I think, are one of the many companies
06:13that raised the level.
06:14We were so incensed at one point
06:17that we went to the very top of Amazon
06:20and we said, this cannot continue.
06:22We will pull ourselves off this platform.
06:25It is not cool what's going on.
06:27And they started to put some restraints in place.
06:32But basically the onus was on us
06:36to find these copies and to pull them off.
06:39And it was a full-time job for a whole legal team,
06:43which we compensated.
06:45And then the companies that had them up,
06:47although they would ultimately get pulled down,
06:50all the sales they got in the three or four months
06:52it took to get them off, we didn't recoup.
06:55And Amazon made money on them
06:57and the factory made money on them
07:00that put out this copy.
07:02So it wasn't quite a fair equation,
07:06but ultimately one of the costs of doing business.
07:11Yeah.
07:12So how did you eventually systematize
07:15attacking this problem?
07:16It's an amazing question.
07:18And it's probably,
07:19although I don't share it publicly like this,
07:21I mentor hundreds of entrepreneurs.
07:23We have an accelerator at Duke University.
07:25And it is one of the questions I hear the most
07:28because these entrepreneurs,
07:30they have their little fledgling baby in their hands
07:34and they're terrified about somebody taking their idea.
07:37And it's really three things that have helped me.
07:40And they're hard things.
07:42So the problem is not everybody can achieve
07:45these three core tenets that you need to follow.
07:49But the first and the most important
07:51is continual and incessant innovation.
07:55So I love the phrase
07:57and I can't attribute it to anyone.
07:59There's no real attribution,
08:00but nobody can copy as fast as I can create.
08:04So I love this idea
08:07that if you're looking backward
08:09in the rear view mirror, right,
08:11you're back in the past.
08:12You're not focusing on getting further ahead.
08:15So what I started to realize is,
08:18okay, they're copying us rabidly,
08:21but they're not copying us for a few months, at least.
08:25I mean, it used to be,
08:25I used to say it was a year and a half
08:27before they actually got wind that something,
08:30because it has to sell at a certain level
08:32before people really get wind of it.
08:34Now it's quicker.
08:35We've already had something copied
08:36for our new company, Lifelines,
08:38and it was about six months.
08:40But it's at least, it's about six months.
08:43So guess what I can do in six months?
08:45I can come out with 25 new products
08:47that are as good or better than that product.
08:50And what I've realized over time
08:52is the knockoffs will skim off the cream,
08:54but they can't take the whole milk.
08:56So even if they're taking one or two of your good items,
09:01they're not going to take the whole thing.
09:03So I focus all that energy.
09:05Whenever I'm prone to looking backward,
09:08I take a deep breath and I say,
09:10no, no, no, no, no.
09:11Keep on creating, Melissa.
09:12Keep on pushing the bar forward and further up.
09:16And then you start to become the leader,
09:19the clear leader,
09:19and it becomes very clear
09:22that you're ahead of everyone else.
09:24And I love that feeling, you know,
09:26where, sure, follow me,
09:28but you're not going to be ahead of me.
09:30So how would you take that advice
09:33and then apply it to someone
09:34who's at a really early stage
09:35and maybe just has one hero product
09:38or a small slate and has been advised,
09:41don't expand too fast.
09:43Don't create a million SKUs.
09:45You don't want to stretch yourself too thin.
09:47I mean, you know, at this point,
09:48Melissa and Doug has such name recognition
09:52and the ability to, I assume,
09:54churn out concepts at a pretty fast clip,
09:57but that's not something that someone
09:58who's just starting out can do, right?
10:00Well, you do need to wait until the consumer speaks.
10:04So you don't do it too soon.
10:05I don't even do it too soon today with our new company.
10:07That's not profitable yet.
10:09So I'm right with all my mentees there,
10:13you know, with this line that was just copied.
10:15I waited.
10:16You put out your idea and then you hold your breath
10:19and you wait to see what the consumer thinks.
10:21If the consumer gives you that nod of approval
10:24and suddenly you realize,
10:26oh boy, I have something really hot on my hands,
10:28that is when you begin to expand.
10:31And I'm not saying you start to go all over the map,
10:34but your expansion is more themes
10:36of the same thing immediately, right?
10:39They're very smart ways to expand
10:42where you're growing a concept
10:44within the confines of that concept
10:48that are very, very wise.
10:50So more styles, a smaller one, a larger one,
10:54a bulk pack, right?
10:56The things that in consumer products
10:58are sort of your go-tos to take something
11:01that's one product and turn it into a small assortment.
11:04So that's what I do immediately
11:08because if it's, especially if it's a consumable,
11:11and it also depends what type of product it is,
11:13but if it's a consumable,
11:15something people are using and then want more of,
11:17it's very easy to do more themes in it.
11:20So that's where I'll advise someone,
11:22depending on what their product is,
11:24like once they get that validation
11:26that they have something really incredible
11:28on their hands,
11:29they have to,
11:30they must, must, must expand
11:33kind of as quickly as they can.
11:36Okay.
11:37So step one here is constant creation.
11:39What's step two?
11:41Step two in our book is accessible pricing.
11:47So, you know,
11:49it all depends on what you want to be,
11:51but, you know,
11:53we wanted to have our product
11:55in the hands of as many people as possible
11:57and be a mass market player.
12:00So that means that you have to offer the best for the least
12:04and you truly have to make a product
12:09that is exemplary in every sense,
12:12great quality, great design,
12:14great customer experience
12:15at a really, really fair, affordable price.
12:19And we are,
12:21I was always a champion of the consumer.
12:23I truly believe that great quality,
12:25well-designed products should be accessible
12:27to every hardworking person.
12:30And because of that,
12:31you know,
12:32I was very cognizant and conscious
12:34that we wanted our pricing to be really,
12:37really good.
12:37You know,
12:38that someone look at our products and say,
12:40that's fair.
12:41Like that is worth every cent I'm paying.
12:45And knockoffs come in.
12:47And by the way,
12:48we've seen this,
12:49there's a great Melissa and Doug story here.
12:52So, you know,
12:53throughout the 32 years that Doug and I were part of,
12:56Melissa and Doug,
12:57this was maybe our number one battle cry.
13:01Accessible pricing,
13:02do not overcharge,
13:03make really low,
13:05fair margins,
13:07but just enough.
13:08And not so much that anybody sees that fat
13:11to come in and copy us.
13:13Because, you know,
13:14one of the main reasons that copycats come in
13:16is because you're overcharging.
13:18And they can come in and charge,
13:21you know,
13:2120,
13:2230% less and offer something very similar.
13:25But with us,
13:26the truth is,
13:28and now it's been proven,
13:29that our low pricing was a thwart
13:32to so many private brands,
13:36so many other manufacturers,
13:39because there wasn't,
13:40they looked at our quality.
13:41They saw we were offering a really incredible product
13:44product and they were like,
13:45oh,
13:46not enough room to come in.
13:48Because if we come in,
13:49we're going to be at the same price
13:50and perhaps not even offer something
13:52as high quality as Melissa and Doug is offering.
13:55Right.
13:56And then once you've built your brand recognition,
13:59once people know the name Melissa and Doug,
14:01then the only thing that a knockoff
14:03can really compete on is price.
14:06And if your price is low enough
14:07where the difference between your price
14:09and their price is marginal,
14:12then you'll win on brand story,
14:15won't you?
14:15Exactly.
14:15But what a lot of advisors tell you
14:17is once you have that brand,
14:20that you have the permission
14:22to start to raise your price
14:24and charge more.
14:25And that's what ended up happening
14:26with Melissa and Doug,
14:27unfortunately.
14:28In new ownership,
14:31Melissa and Doug decided
14:32to charge for brand
14:34and raise prices 30% more.
14:38And guess what happened?
14:39More knockoffs than you could ever imagine
14:43suddenly came in
14:44and literally cut the legs
14:46right off of Melissa and Doug
14:48where it was.
14:49And today,
14:51Melissa and Doug has lost half its value
14:54because of that.
14:55And now they're retrenching
14:56as quickly as they can
14:58to lower prices
14:59and sort of go back
15:00to where we were four years ago
15:04when accessible pricing was our mantra.
15:07So it really proved out.
15:09It's fascinating.
15:11Yeah.
15:11That's been...
15:12What has that been like
15:13for you and Doug to watch
15:15from the outside
15:17to see them drift upward on price
15:21and then get undercut
15:22and it hurt the company?
15:23Horrifying.
15:24Honestly.
15:25Because we knew it
15:27and we said it was going to happen.
15:29And I think it's an easy way
15:32to improve your profitability
15:36and it's always the go-to
15:38because it's the easiest thing to do.
15:40And short-term,
15:41you think it's amazing.
15:43Wow, look!
15:43People are willing to pay more
15:44for these same products.
15:46But basically,
15:47that profit
15:48is everyone else's opportunity
15:51to come in.
15:52And we saw it
15:53with our customers.
15:54They came in
15:54with their own owned brands.
15:57We saw it with a lot
15:58of other competitors
16:00who had stayed out of our space
16:01because there wasn't room
16:02come in.
16:03And now that they're in there,
16:05you know,
16:06then it's very hard
16:08to get them to leave
16:09because they're seeing
16:11that it's a good category.
16:13Yeah.
16:14And I imagine also
16:16it's harder than
16:17to create
16:19the pass-along
16:21brand love effect
16:22in a category like yours
16:23where, for example,
16:26every somewhat experienced parent
16:28tells the new parent,
16:30oh, you've got to get
16:30the Melissa and Doug stuff.
16:31The kid is going to love it.
16:32But now,
16:33if you've allowed
16:34the category
16:34to become more crowded,
16:36then there isn't
16:37that same affection
16:39to the brand.
16:39They're not passing it
16:40along as much.
16:41And then Melissa and Doug
16:42sinks into the category
16:43instead of leads it.
16:44Exactly.
16:45Yeah.
16:45And so,
16:46in a way,
16:47it's been a fascinating exercise
16:48because we had this supposition
16:51for all these years,
16:52right?
16:52And we lived it.
16:53And we held on to it
16:55with every ounce of our being.
16:56Every board we were on
16:58wanted us to raise prices.
16:59And Doug and I said,
17:01no, no, no, no, no.
17:01That's the last straw.
17:03Literally,
17:04we will take this one
17:06to the mat.
17:07And we did.
17:08We took it to the mat.
17:09And the second we weren't there,
17:11it was the first thing
17:12that changed.
17:14And it was the downfall.
17:16You know,
17:17and they'll regroup
17:18and they'll retrench
17:20and they'll get back there.
17:22But it's sort of ironic
17:24that it's now
17:25one of their core missions
17:27for 2026
17:28is to go back
17:29to accessible pricing
17:31when that's what was always,
17:33you know,
17:34what we had.
17:35Yeah.
17:37Final question on this,
17:38and then I want to move on
17:39to the third point
17:40about how to combat knockoffs.
17:42But as we're talking about this
17:43and the disappointment
17:44that you and Doug have
17:45of watching this,
17:46I'm just curious
17:46if you feel like
17:48there is a distinct
17:51kind of experience
17:52that you guys have
17:53watching the company
17:55that you're no longer
17:55a part of
17:56and making,
17:57you know,
17:58them making decisions
17:58that you wouldn't have
17:59made yourself
17:59because your names
18:01are in the company name.
18:03You know,
18:03everybody has some version
18:05of this when they exit.
18:06They watch,
18:06they say,
18:07I wouldn't have done it
18:07like that.
18:08Oh,
18:08that's a disappointment.
18:09But,
18:10you know,
18:10it's also another thing
18:12to keep referring
18:13to the company
18:14by your own name
18:15as you are doing
18:16over and over again.
18:17What's that like?
18:18I mean,
18:19I have to say
18:20it's been a journey
18:22and much more painful
18:23a few years ago
18:24than it is today.
18:26But,
18:27yes,
18:27very,
18:28very,
18:28very painful
18:29to see that
18:31and to know
18:31so clearly
18:33what should be done
18:34because,
18:35you know,
18:35it was instinctive.
18:36We started Melissa
18:37and Doug
18:37at 22 and 24
18:39and we grew up with it.
18:41We found ourselves
18:42through it.
18:43We learned
18:44every hard lesson
18:45the,
18:46you know,
18:47the hardest way possible
18:49and I think
18:50we knew that company
18:52like our own child.
18:53So,
18:54when we felt
18:55a certain way,
18:56it wasn't really
18:56just because
18:57we were being dogmatic.
18:58It's because we knew
18:59instinctively
19:00what was right
19:01and I think
19:02when,
19:03you know,
19:03other people come in
19:04who've had experience
19:06the more
19:06textbook way
19:07and have their
19:09certain model
19:10on the way
19:11they do things
19:11and it clashes
19:12with how you're doing it,
19:14you try,
19:14you know,
19:15you try and fight
19:16for what you believe
19:17but I think new people,
19:19you know,
19:19they want to try their way
19:21and,
19:21hey,
19:22Doug and I made,
19:23you know,
19:24what happened
19:25was because of decisions
19:26we made
19:27so we can't,
19:27we can't blame anyone.
19:29You know,
19:29it was completely
19:30our doing
19:30and how it ended up
19:32wasn't,
19:33we didn't want to happen
19:34but it was based
19:36on our doing
19:37and decisions we made
19:38so I think
19:39we did the only thing
19:40entrepreneurs
19:41can ultimately do
19:42is we started
19:43a new company
19:43doing it
19:44exactly our way
19:46and the way
19:46we did
19:47Melissa and Doug
19:48when Melissa and Doug
19:49started
19:50and that's the only way
19:52that the pain lessened
19:54and now,
19:55you know,
19:56I can look at it
19:56and say it was meant
19:57to happen
19:58because I'm having
19:59such joy
20:00with our new company
20:01and building it
20:02in a way
20:03that,
20:04you know,
20:05I feel is authentic
20:06to the brand
20:07and Doug and I
20:08are having like
20:09a complete blast
20:10doing this.
20:11And the new company
20:12is,
20:13tell us a little bit.
20:14Yeah,
20:14so it's something
20:16I never imagined
20:17and I wouldn't have done
20:18had that not happened
20:19with Melissa and Doug.
20:21We are a well-being brand
20:23making products
20:24for right when
20:25Melissa and Doug
20:26ends,
20:27people 9 to 99
20:28and their well-being products
20:30in the sensory space
20:32so they delight
20:33your senses
20:34and make you
20:36feel calm
20:37and joy.
20:37So,
20:38they're really delightful
20:40and it's
20:42so much fun
20:44making products
20:44for people like me
20:45and for myself.
20:46I never thought
20:47I would have
20:48this opportunity.
20:50So,
20:51you know,
20:51there's always
20:52a silver lining
20:54in misfortune
20:55and although
20:57I never would have
20:58imagined
20:58I wouldn't
20:59die at Melissa
21:01and Doug
21:01and be there
21:02until the end
21:02of my career,
21:03this enabled me
21:04to try something
21:05that I never thought
21:07I was capable of
21:08and I think
21:08and Doug and I
21:09to embark on this
21:10journey once again
21:11and I'd say he's
21:13doing a ton of stuff
21:14he hasn't done
21:15in decades
21:15and really
21:17he was just
21:17telling me today
21:18that he has to
21:20put this company
21:20on his back
21:21and drag it
21:22over the end zone
21:23because it's so hard
21:25and nobody's doing it
21:26the way he wants
21:27them to do it
21:28and he said
21:29I'm older now
21:30it was kind of sad
21:31he said
21:31and I'm really tired
21:32but I am going
21:33to do it
21:34and it was really cute
21:36and I was like
21:37oh sweetie
21:38I'm so sorry
21:39you're having to do this
21:40but even though
21:42he's saying that
21:42he's really good at it
21:44and he's really enjoying it
21:45I know it's somewhere
21:46there
21:47and I think
21:48this is an important
21:49thing for entrepreneurs
21:50to hear by the way
21:51because here
21:52you guys are
21:53you've built
21:53an incredible brand
21:54that every parent knows
21:56and that doesn't make
21:57entrepreneurship
21:58any easier
21:59does it?
22:00Can I tell you
22:01when people say
22:02oh you've already
22:04built a billion dollar company
22:05this is going to be
22:06easy for you
22:07this is harder
22:08than anything
22:09we've ever done
22:10it's harder than
22:11Melissa and Doug
22:12and it's completely different
22:14it's 35 years later
22:16and the world
22:17has completely changed
22:19so other than
22:21us having these
22:22core tenets
22:23of you know
22:24being authentic
22:25and being true
22:26to the consumer
22:27and working hard
22:28nothing else
22:29is even remotely
22:30the same
22:31it's an entirely
22:32different industry too
22:33so very very different
22:35and very punishing
22:36very humbling
22:37in every aspect
22:39well
22:40welcome back
22:41to entrepreneurship
22:41exactly
22:42all right
22:42so
22:43we have
22:44create
22:45faster than your competition
22:47can knock you off
22:48we have
22:49keep prices low
22:50so that they can't
22:51undercut you
22:52and what is the
22:53third way to keep
22:54the competitors
22:55at bay
22:55it's distribute
22:57them everywhere
22:58so that nobody
23:01is looking for them
23:03and can't find them
23:04and someone else
23:05can fill that need
23:06so I think
23:08one of the things
23:09I really
23:10advise
23:12all my mentees
23:13is
23:14don't just
23:15use D to C
23:16you know
23:17I think
23:17today
23:18it's kind of
23:19the easy
23:19well
23:20it's not easy
23:21it's the hardest
23:21path there is
23:22but in a sense
23:23it's the easy
23:24way to go
23:25like oh
23:25I'm just gonna
23:25put up a website
23:26and sell D to C
23:28well first of all
23:28D to C
23:29you know
23:30at a hundred dollars
23:30per customer
23:31cost of acquisition
23:33like it's really
23:34not profitable
23:35for most people
23:36but I think
23:37in terms of being
23:38innovative and creative
23:39this is another
23:40area where you
23:42really have to
23:42flex that
23:43creativity muscle
23:44and you have to
23:46think really
23:46creatively about
23:47how can I
23:48reach my target
23:49market
23:50what are some
23:51really unique
23:52ways that no
23:54one else is
23:54doing
23:55and that's what
23:56we're doing
23:56with lifelines
23:57you know
23:58not only
23:59are we
23:59we're just
24:00starting to
24:01think about
24:02D to C
24:02but from the
24:03beginning
24:04we decided
24:05to again
24:06it's very
24:06counter today
24:07we decided
24:07to go the
24:08bricks and
24:08mortar retail
24:09way
24:10and it's
24:12much harder
24:12you know
24:13you're selling
24:13individually
24:14to these
24:15stores
24:15you're
24:16traveling to
24:17Minneapolis
24:18to meet
24:18with them
24:19you're
24:19traveling to
24:19a lot
24:19of trade
24:20shows
24:20to meet
24:21with the
24:21smaller
24:21stores
24:22and it's
24:23a it's
24:24a punishing
24:24grueling
24:25road
24:26but wow
24:27it feels
24:27so good
24:28when you
24:28know that
24:29you're in
24:29a thousand
24:30accounts
24:31and you
24:32have that
24:32in addition
24:33to a
24:34D to C
24:34model
24:35and you're
24:36selling to
24:36niche groups
24:37you know
24:37you're selling
24:38to nursing
24:38groups
24:39you're selling
24:39to teachers
24:40you're
24:40so there's
24:42so much
24:43in that
24:44distribution
24:45model
24:46that is
24:47hard work
24:48but if you
24:48really want
24:49to win
24:50you will
24:51do it
24:52as creatively
24:53and innovatively
24:54as you
24:54make create
24:55your product
24:55because ultimately
24:57it's a real
24:58barrier to
24:59entry for
25:00anyone else
25:01yeah I've
25:03heard a lot
25:03of founders
25:04say that
25:05retail isn't
25:05just about a
25:06sales channel
25:07retail is
25:07marketing
25:08retail is
25:09brand positioning
25:10because the
25:11more in which
25:12you can just
25:12get in front
25:13of the consumer
25:14and also
25:15build the
25:16associations
25:16for them
25:17so if
25:17they walk
25:18into
25:18you know
25:19let's just
25:20use toys
25:21for an
25:21example
25:21if you walk
25:22into a toy
25:22store
25:23and your
25:24toys are
25:25not there
25:25then people
25:26aren't making
25:26the same
25:27association
25:27and so
25:28this is an
25:29interesting way
25:30of thinking
25:30about it
25:31obviously
25:31this
25:32as you
25:33said
25:33is a
25:34more
25:34complicated
25:34world
25:35building
25:35lifelines
25:36than it
25:36was when
25:36you were
25:37building
25:37Melissa
25:37and Doug
25:38because
25:38you didn't
25:39have the
25:40broad world
25:41of e-commerce
25:42that you
25:42had to
25:43deal with
25:43back in
25:44the 90s
25:45but the
25:47premise remains
25:49the same
25:49which is
25:50you just
25:50have to
25:50figure out
25:51all the
25:52places that
25:52the consumer
25:53is and
25:54make sure
25:54that you're
25:55in front
25:55of them
25:55so that
25:56you are
25:56always part
25:57of that
25:57conversation
25:57one of
25:58the hardest
25:58things I've
25:59had to
25:59do with
25:59lifelines
26:00is I've
26:01gone live
26:01on QVC
26:03about I
26:05don't know
26:05a dozen
26:05times
26:06having to
26:07hawk our
26:08product
26:08and you
26:10know the
26:10thing about
26:11QVC
26:11the home
26:12shopping
26:12channel
26:13is they
26:14say for
26:14every one
26:15person that
26:16sees it
26:16on QVC
26:17like what
26:18it is
26:19I think
26:19it's 10
26:19others
26:20buy it
26:21somewhere
26:21else
26:22so it's
26:23really
26:24an effective
26:26method for
26:27selling your
26:28product
26:28and it's
26:29marketing
26:30right as
26:31much as
26:31you're going
26:31to sell
26:32that day
26:32on QVC
26:33we would
26:34always look
26:34at all
26:35our other
26:35channels
26:36whenever we
26:37had a
26:37segment
26:37and everything
26:38else went
26:39up in the
26:39hours following
26:40that segment
26:41so those
26:42that's another
26:43channel it's
26:44not a
26:44traditional
26:45channel and
26:46for Melissa
26:47it never
26:47worked our
26:48toys never
26:48sold well
26:49on that
26:49channel but
26:50at Lifelines
26:51it's a very
26:52effective way to
26:53sell our
26:53product along
26:54with TikTok
26:55shop another
26:56really new
26:58effective channel
26:59affiliate marketing
27:01another really
27:02effective way of
27:03selling products
27:04so there are a
27:05lot of these
27:05new ways that
27:07take time and
27:08take patience and
27:09take some
27:10expertise but
27:11if you can
27:12conquer them
27:13they're really
27:14going to
27:14help you
27:16avoid other
27:17people sort
27:17of coming
27:18into your
27:20area
27:21yeah
27:22Melissa this
27:22has been so
27:23helpful and
27:24so insightful
27:24I know you've
27:25got this new
27:26book The Heart
27:26of Entrepreneurship
27:27Crafting Your
27:28Authentic Recipe
27:29for Success
27:29before we let
27:30you go just
27:30tell me a
27:31little bit
27:31about that
27:31oh well
27:33you know I
27:34believe that
27:35all of us
27:36have that
27:37creative gem
27:38inside our
27:40hearts that
27:41longs to
27:42come out
27:42but so many
27:44of us are
27:44terrified of
27:45rejection and
27:47terrified that
27:47when people see
27:48that thing we've
27:49been harboring for
27:50all these years
27:51they'll say
27:52sorry I don't
27:53want to buy it
27:54it's not good
27:54enough so
27:55this book is
27:56about how
27:57you can
27:58take that
27:59thing that's
28:00been longing
28:01to be set
28:02free and
28:03bring it out
28:03to the world
28:04in a way
28:05that customers
28:06are truly
28:06clamoring to
28:07purchase or
28:08use it
28:09amazing
28:10well Melissa
28:11thank you
28:11for one
28:12the insights
28:13today also
28:13to you and
28:15Doug for just
28:15making fantastic
28:16toys that my
28:17kids grew up
28:18with and I'm
28:19so excited to
28:20watch what you
28:20guys build with
28:21lifelines
28:21thank you for
28:22sharing this and
28:23for doing all
28:23you do to
28:24help entrepreneurs
28:25you
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