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00:00:16It started with a fight between lovers at a South 4th Street home and ended with two men charged with
00:00:21murder.
00:00:22When the murder of Jamie Carroll was uncovered, the story kind of just fell in my lap.
00:00:27Joseph Bainus is accused of killing James Carroll and burying his body in his basement.
00:00:32In my head, gears started to turn.
00:00:35Slowly at first.
00:00:38Joseph Bainus.
00:00:40Jeffrey Munt.
00:00:42James Carroll.
00:00:43Joseph Bainus is the first of two men to be tried for Carroll's murder.
00:00:48Lover's Triangle.
00:00:50Body in the Basement.
00:00:52Spooky Old Mansion.
00:00:55Revenge.
00:00:56Drugs.
00:00:57Kinky Sex.
00:00:59You couldn't make this stuff up.
00:01:02Jury is expected to hear closing arguments today.
00:01:05You are here to judge the guilt of Joseph Bainus.
00:01:08And Jeffrey Munt and Joseph Bainus did this together.
00:01:12They acted in complicity with each other to commit the murder of Jamie Carroll.
00:01:16Jamie Carroll spent six months in a 50-gallon Rubbermaid container.
00:01:24Would a verdict make sense of it all?
00:01:28Baby, can't you see I'm calling?
00:01:32A guy like you should wear one name.
00:01:37It's dangerous.
00:01:39I'm falling.
00:01:40I'm not going to operate a walker.
00:01:42Where's the emergency?
00:01:43My ex-boyfriend is attacking me.
00:01:46I need somebody help.
00:01:51I need somebody help.
00:02:05I can't get rid of him.
00:02:10I can't get rid of him.
00:02:35Once we walked into the jury room to deliberate, we talked into the night up until about midnight.
00:02:42Jurors deliberated murder suspect Joseph Bainus fate for nine and a half hours last night before the judge ordered them
00:02:48sequestered overnight.
00:02:50It is an unusual situation where a jury would go out and we would be here late into the night
00:02:56to the point where we had to come back the next day.
00:02:58I think we essentially all agreed, like, from the start.
00:03:02I feel like Jeff Munt was more the mastermind.
00:03:07A lot of us believed that it was Jeffrey that was more guilty.
00:03:13After it seems like we've been stuck in the clouds forever, sunshine out there this morning, it's going to last
00:03:18all day.
00:03:19Good morning, I'm John Boll.
00:03:20With some breaking news, we want to take you live downtown right now to the courthouse where we're about to
00:03:24get a verdict.
00:03:25In the murder case of Joseph Bainus, the judge is speaking right now, so let's listen in.
00:03:30I was told you have a verdict, Mr. Foreperson, is that true?
00:03:33Yes, Your Honor.
00:03:33All right, if you didn't have the jury, she's Chef Brown.
00:03:37Mr. Bainus, if you'd please rise.
00:03:43Under verdict of instruction number one, we, the jury, found a defendant, Joseph Bainus, guilty under instruction number one.
00:03:55It's against the rule, but I let them hug there.
00:03:59I mean, if a guy's going for life, what the heck, this might be his last time seeing his parents.
00:04:08If we had had both of them on trial together, our jury would have found them both guilty.
00:04:16Absolutely, 100%.
00:04:24Dearest Kevin.
00:04:29I just got my photos back and decided to send you one along with this card to let you know
00:04:34I've been thinking of you.
00:04:40Joey Bainus was my first boyfriend.
00:04:43He writes letters to me every single day.
00:04:46I still sometimes worry that you won't want to be my friend in the long term.
00:04:51This goes on for years.
00:04:53I have shoeboxes full of letters, like cards from him, all handwritten.
00:04:57He used to always finish it with a peace sign, a heart sign, a nice smiley face, peace, love, happiness.
00:05:02Joey.
00:05:05So this is the very first photograph that I ever took with Joey.
00:05:08This is when we fell in love.
00:05:11A drag queen once told us, you look like bookends.
00:05:17I met him on a rainy November night in a bank parking lot.
00:05:23I'll never forget his face, though.
00:05:27Like, just the first time I saw him through the car window, just, like, with that slow-looking door, like,
00:05:31is this him?
00:05:34And we were sitting in a car, because that's, our relationship was limited to that, because he lived with his
00:05:39parents and I lived with my parents.
00:05:40Like, where were we supposed to go?
00:05:42So every night we would just sit in a car and just talk for hours.
00:05:45Remember, don't mail it in.
00:05:46Bring it in and get your cash today.
00:05:49He was very intelligent, and that was something that was really important to me.
00:05:52He could carry a conversation, and from an amazing, you know, from a really, really good family and with a,
00:05:57you know, great pedigree.
00:06:01We decided we wanted to get our own place.
00:06:05We found this cute little apartment down on First Street.
00:06:09There were no closets in that apartment.
00:06:11And the joke was, well, we just came out of the closet, so I guess we don't need them anymore.
00:06:17Louisville broke the record for an all-time low temperature of minus 22 degrees.
00:06:22One year in, Louisville got hit with a huge snowstorm.
00:06:25We couldn't even go to work.
00:06:27Like, businesses were shut down.
00:06:28So it was awesome for us.
00:06:29You know, we snowed in like kids and snowed in school.
00:06:34We, you know, started, you know, talking about things and smoking weed.
00:06:41He told me his story.
00:06:44And his story was, he had spent time in jail.
00:06:49He's a deadhead.
00:06:49He followed the Grateful Dead around.
00:06:51And they found some, like, LSD in the car, and he had a gun.
00:06:54And I was like, wow, a gun?
00:06:55Like, that's, why would you, why would someone need a gun?
00:06:58But whatever.
00:06:58I was like, I don't know.
00:06:59I didn't care.
00:07:00You know?
00:07:01Like, I love you.
00:07:02It's all right.
00:07:03People make mistakes, right?
00:07:05Now, let's just, let's move on.
00:07:06Let's move, let's move forward.
00:07:09And then from there, it was, hey, look, have you ever done LSD?
00:07:13And this is when I started to realize, like, he doesn't have the switch that people have.
00:07:18It's like, enough is enough.
00:07:21One day, it was on Father's Day, we did some LSD, and I was feeling good.
00:07:27And we start, he starts this argument, right?
00:07:29He gets angry.
00:07:31He just reaches down and picks up a piece of glass, and he shoves it in my arm.
00:07:35He goes, you see what you made me do?
00:07:36And I'm like, holy shit.
00:07:41And so I'm bleeding.
00:07:43And I was very calm.
00:07:44We just get up, and I walk out of the apartment.
00:07:46I walk next door and knock on the neighbor's door.
00:07:49The girl, she opens the door, she's like, damn.
00:07:51I was like, would you call the police, please?
00:07:56So I get him kicked out, and that fucker moves in next door.
00:08:06It was scary.
00:08:27This is the Victorian Ghost Walk.
00:08:28It's a once-a-year annual event.
00:08:31People in Victorian attire and period costume are staged to come alive as the spirits.
00:08:42I'm going to sweat a lot of it off.
00:08:43I can tell already.
00:08:46It looks good in the beard, for sure.
00:08:51Because of the sensational murder trial, more people wanted to come see the neighborhood
00:08:57in spite of its sullied reputation.
00:09:00Louisville is an extremely spirited place.
00:09:04Spirited with bourbon and spirited around here with a lot of ghostly figures.
00:09:11I do believe in ghosts.
00:09:13So many people have lived and died in these houses.
00:09:17People have said that they have seen ghostly figures walking through my house.
00:09:22So many people have been laid in the front parlor for three days.
00:09:26I think there were some sad, sad things that happened in those front rooms.
00:09:30My husband passed away in this house.
00:09:33I found him lying on the floor.
00:09:36I felt like somebody was pinching me, which sounds so crazy.
00:09:41But that's what he would have done, just kind of aggravated me.
00:09:45My house had a ghost in it.
00:09:47My cat was the only one who could see it.
00:09:50I never saw it.
00:09:51She was the only one who saw it.
00:09:52But it was always the same place, the same setup, the same time of day.
00:09:58It was there.
00:09:59It was definitely there.
00:10:00Because she would just walk in the room and sit down.
00:10:11There's a ghost here.
00:10:12There's one back here.
00:10:13Freaked out her brother.
00:10:16The woman.
00:10:18This used to be a brothel back here.
00:10:20That's what the landlord says.
00:10:22I don't think it's a ghost.
00:10:23No, the landlord talked about it years ago.
00:10:25Supposedly it's a woman.
00:10:26That's what her brother said.
00:10:29Gather around me, you see.
00:10:31She will only speak to all of us when she sees the near of thee.
00:10:36Every 15 minutes starting at 6 o'clock, a group of 35 to 40 people leaves with a guide.
00:10:42The baby's dead.
00:10:44She's not asleep.
00:10:45These are not professional actors.
00:10:47The reaper comes for souls to keep.
00:10:52Sometimes it's their first acting gig ever.
00:10:55Let the dead come alive.
00:10:57The darker it gets, the spookier it gets, and more witches come out.
00:11:00Double.
00:11:01Double.
00:11:02Toil and trouble.
00:11:03Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
00:11:10My paranormal friends, they think one of the reasons that this is such a haunted neighborhood
00:11:15is the fact that we have so much stone in brick construction.
00:11:18Because they retain energy.
00:11:19They retain images better than light, airy, wooden constructions would.
00:11:25Louisville is America's most haunted neighborhood.
00:11:28Because when you have a tour guide telling ghost stories three and four times a night,
00:11:35the more you say their name, the more energy you feed them,
00:11:39the more you're lifting their soul and their essence, so to speak.
00:11:45Well, last year they asked me to play Annie Whipple.
00:11:49Dr. Anderson!
00:11:51Dr. Anderson, I implored!
00:11:54Two doors down, they say a ghost of a governess they call Annie Whipple,
00:11:59walks up and down the staircase.
00:12:02And so, my head drooped, and my hand dipped its pen in ink
00:12:11and scrawled the message across the page.
00:12:15And when I awoke, the chilling words before me on the page said,
00:12:24You fool!
00:12:25I am not Dr. Anderson!
00:12:31But I want to make sure that I do her justice,
00:12:36because I only live a block from her.
00:12:42It's been suggested that we have someone stationed in front of the murder house
00:12:48dragging a blue rubbermaid tote between the two of them.
00:12:53But we think it's a little too soon to go there.
00:12:56When I moved in across the street from the murder house,
00:12:59I was taking a lot of baths.
00:13:01I had an awesome clawfoot tub I spent a lot of time in.
00:13:09I started noticing a figure walking back and forth in front of the windows.
00:13:15And so I thought,
00:13:16Oh, maybe at first this is somebody sneaking into that house.
00:13:20But I kept seeing that person in the window.
00:13:23Sometimes their hair is long.
00:13:25Sometimes their hair is short.
00:13:27And after a while, I realized that person's not alive.
00:13:33I drew a sketch.
00:13:35I put it on my Instagram.
00:13:36And I said,
00:13:38Yeah, I think that's Jamie Carroll's ghost trying to get my attention.
00:13:51I wanted to piece together a more complete portrait of Jamie Carroll.
00:13:56He had lived and worked for a while in Paintsville, Kentucky, where he ran a hair salon.
00:14:03Jamie was just a great person.
00:14:07Jamie would give you the shirt off his back and not expect anything in return.
00:14:11He was a mommy's boy.
00:14:13He made sure mom had groceries.
00:14:15You know, he made sure that mom was taken care of.
00:14:17He would stop by and see me.
00:14:20He always did come by and see me.
00:14:22Sometimes I could tell he was not himself.
00:14:26He was...
00:14:29He was just...
00:14:30He was...
00:14:32I better not say that.
00:14:33But he was...
00:14:35He was not himself.
00:14:38Maybe drugs or whatever.
00:14:41The name of Jamie's shop was Illusions.
00:14:45We was there a lot at night because, you know, Jamie did a lot of his secret business there.
00:14:49You know, making his money on the side there.
00:14:52His international house of business.
00:15:01He would mix all kinds of powder.
00:15:04Besides hair chemical.
00:15:06He was our coke meth dealer.
00:15:09I mean, I can tell you from experience.
00:15:10I mean, you know, I was addicted to meth for many years.
00:15:13Started doing meth and coke.
00:15:1615, 14 year old.
00:15:17And with Jamie.
00:15:19You know, tyloxes, smoking weed, doing ecstasy.
00:15:22Whatever I could get with him.
00:15:23Yeah, we've partied together.
00:15:24We've...
00:15:26We've been stupid.
00:15:27I've been a stupid mother, but...
00:15:29No, I'm never really a stupid mother.
00:15:30She's a fun mother.
00:15:34But when I would party with Jamie, I would carry around his little bag of his stash, whatever.
00:15:39And I would sell it for him.
00:15:41They'd be like, give me ten.
00:15:42And I'd give him a little ten dollar bag or whatever.
00:15:44He used to have those little cute little meth bags that had little cherries on them.
00:15:47That's how you knew they were Jamie's.
00:15:48You'd find one laying around in the paint full empty and you'd say, ask Jamie's.
00:15:52He would tell people when we first walked in, you know, this is my fag hag.
00:15:55You don't mess with her and everything's okay.
00:15:57He had your back.
00:15:58You were protected when you was with Jamie.
00:16:01Around here, Jamie was a protector.
00:16:02He was a provider.
00:16:03But he had to get away from here to make all the money that he brought back into this place.
00:16:08And he thought that's the only way he would get accepted when he got here, was to provide for people.
00:16:14It started with coke and it flowed like snow in the Alps there.
00:16:24Someone introduced Jamie to crack.
00:16:28And that's when it went downhill.
00:16:31Jamie lost the salon.
00:16:32Jamie lost the house.
00:16:33Jamie lost Jamie.
00:16:35Jamie lost Jamie.
00:16:36And then it went to methamphetamine.
00:16:41That's the last thing I know that he sold.
00:16:47I can remember Jamie coming to visit me once in my apartment.
00:16:52And I look over and Jamie's in the floor.
00:16:57And I said, what are you doing?
00:16:59Get up.
00:17:02He said, bitch, I can't.
00:17:04I'm high.
00:17:05I said, on what?
00:17:10I said, bitch, you're smoking cat litter.
00:17:12She said, your cat shits rocks, girl, okay?
00:17:15She said.
00:17:17The meth that was around back then was like stuff that you had to go away from here and get.
00:17:21So the town hadn't seen the stuff like that, only the gay community.
00:17:24They call it high-speed chicken feed.
00:17:26Because around here, you know, it's everybody on it.
00:17:28It's high-speed when they're on it.
00:17:30How do you explain it?
00:17:31That's about it.
00:17:32It sums it up.
00:17:32You can do it all.
00:17:34And for days, there's no rest.
00:17:35You don't need no rest.
00:17:38It kind of decreases your inhibitions.
00:17:40It lets you put what you feel is your best foot forward, which it may not be, you know.
00:17:47That was what the crystal meth of that time really done and took it.
00:17:52That's how it took a hold of the small communities around here.
00:17:57This would be 13 and a half pounds of meth.
00:18:00Almost enough to fill a giant bag of cat food.
00:18:03The drug epidemic reaching every corner of Louisville.
00:18:07The biggest meth bust in the city's history.
00:18:09Over 34 pounds of meth.
00:18:12What happened was crystal meth came in.
00:18:15Then the scene changed.
00:18:18I can always tell when someone's doing meth, their eyes are darting a lot.
00:18:23They twitch a lot.
00:18:24Move a lot.
00:18:25Very tweaky is the word.
00:18:27A tweak.
00:18:27They tweak a lot.
00:18:30We used to call crystal meth, we call it Tina.
00:18:35Because Tina Turner's very popular and she would, you know, so we call it Tina.
00:18:41Are we going to do some Tina?
00:18:42Yeah, I think I'm going to do some Tina tonight.
00:18:44I'll be fine.
00:18:47You know?
00:18:48You can tell by the teeth.
00:18:51How the decay in the teeth and things like that from using meth.
00:18:54They chew on their cheek.
00:18:56Crystal meth made your ambitions go away.
00:18:59And people were like, yeah, I can take on the world.
00:19:03You know?
00:19:03And a lot of times they meant, yeah, I can take on the world.
00:19:14I was gone for a couple years because I had been in prison for drugs.
00:19:19So I came back to Louisville and I wanted to get high and have sex.
00:19:23And so I got online and me and Jamie hooked up.
00:19:32He came over to the hotel room that I was at and we had sex on like 15 ounces of
00:19:39crystal meth.
00:19:40And, you know, I had a blast.
00:19:45During that time, I also met Jace online late night after clubbing.
00:19:54Messaged each other off of Adam for Adam.
00:19:57He and I were both high on crystal meth.
00:20:01The first time Joey and I met, we did drugs, which was very exciting sexually.
00:20:07He loved, loved, loved latex, rubber, gear, forced chemicals, bondage.
00:20:14All things that were new to me that he got me to try.
00:20:29I mean, I don't know the best way to describe it, but it makes, it basically makes you incredibly horny.
00:20:35He was into bondage and I liked having threesomes.
00:21:01That's how Jamie and Jason and I ended up having that freeway.
00:21:13I guess you probably would hear a lot of people say this, but, like, I don't have a problem being
00:21:18high and, like, knowing what's going on.
00:21:22Jeffrey Munn was one of those people who absolutely loses touch with reality, being high on crystal meth.
00:21:33Jace is having a, I guess, toxic reaction to something he ate or not being able to eat.
00:21:41Jace, he's passed out in the bed after trying to clean up the room.
00:21:52They're off in the Kentucky Derby.
00:21:57Attorneys deliver opening arguments on a Love Triangle murder case.
00:22:00In May, right after the Kentucky Derby, Jeffrey Munn stood trial.
00:22:06Joey Banas had already been found guilty for the murder of Jamie Carroll.
00:22:11Accused killer Jeffrey Munn's scheduled to be in court today.
00:22:14Once again, Judge Mitch Perry presided in the courtroom, and familiar figures sat at the table for the prosecution.
00:22:22Three men entered.
00:22:24Two men leave.
00:22:26But the defense team had a markedly different makeup.
00:22:29What he just told you is a lie, and you'll know it.
00:22:32Dramatically, Romines went to the Rubbermaid storage bin and rolled it to the side.
00:22:37As if to convey to the jury that he and everybody else recognized it as a cheap gimmick.
00:22:44It's easy to defend a case when your defense is the truth.
00:22:50We'll prove to you before this trial is over, Jeff Munn is innocent.
00:22:55I know Steve from some of the cases he has in my courtroom.
00:22:59I call him big money.
00:23:01Yes.
00:23:02Steve Romines is one of the more well-paid, well-known criminal defense attorneys.
00:23:09There are certain type of cases that I'd prefer not to take.
00:23:12The first is, and this is a sad reality of it, is can they afford to defend the case properly?
00:23:20He wins a lot.
00:23:21Jeff Munn is innocent and will prove to you that they know it.
00:23:27He acts exactly like a very high-priced lawyer should act.
00:23:30They have had the evidence in their hands, and they have either ignored it, they have disregarded it, or they
00:23:36have hidden it.
00:23:38It doesn't come any more theatrical than that.
00:23:40That's what you're paying him for.
00:23:42You're going to get the whole truth.
00:23:44In fact, you're going to start it this afternoon.
00:23:46Joey Banis' own words.
00:23:49Let's hear him.
00:23:51I'm recording my death for the purpose of informing all informed or all concerned of my own willful suicide
00:23:58and the complete non-involvement or culpability of anyone else,
00:24:02specifically of my boyfriend, lover, life partner, and friend, my one, Jeffrey Stephen Munt.
00:24:08We felt like that was the single most powerful piece of evidence in the entire case.
00:24:18This includes killing someone.
00:24:21It's a confession.
00:24:23He's confessing to the murder, and he's confessing to threatening Jeff about it,
00:24:29to holding Jeff hostage, to violence against Jeff.
00:24:32The police and the prosecution had this the entire time.
00:24:38And they had never seen it until I showed it to the jury in opening statement.
00:24:43You clearly had not reviewed these videos.
00:24:46No, sir.
00:24:47Some of this information would have been helpful in retrospect, would it?
00:24:51Sir, it would have been very helpful.
00:24:53The reason why, and it's simple now,
00:24:58the police's forensic evaluations of computers were done with PCs.
00:25:04And that video was filmed on an Apple or a Mac.
00:25:11I'm thinking, okay, well, this is a slam dunk.
00:25:15You've got this guy saying he's going to commit suicide, he's clearing his lover.
00:25:20But then when it got back to the prosecutors a few days later, they come back.
00:25:24Wait, there's a start to this.
00:25:25I guess at this point, Judge, I would move for a mission of that, permission to play it.
00:25:28And, Judge, let's not make some misimpression.
00:25:30There are three different videos.
00:25:32Judge, can we approach?
00:25:35There's three separate videos at this time.
00:25:38The impression was given that somehow we cut one of them off or whatever, right?
00:25:43Put clips on the same day.
00:25:44Yeah, but again, it's not like we've somehow edited it out or anything like that.
00:25:49The defense for Mr. Munt only played a portion of the video.
00:25:53And there is no doubt that they did not play the beginning part that was not that beneficial to them.
00:26:00Go ahead.
00:26:21So this is Joey's explanation of what he says happened during the recording of that video.
00:26:33This is a check to see if the video camera is recording correctly and setting it up for the suicidal
00:26:40farewell.
00:26:42I was sick of Jace and didn't want to be with him anymore.
00:26:45Jace would not let me go.
00:26:47He had threatened me and threatened my family.
00:26:49The only way was to completely absolve him of all responsibility.
00:26:54So Jace wrote out a script and told me to read it in front of the flip video camera connected
00:26:59to my computer.
00:27:00I'm sorry for any pain that this causes.
00:27:26You can see who's in charge.
00:27:29You can see who's making this happen.
00:27:32And it clearly is not Mr. Banis.
00:27:38You have Munt almost seeming to dictate what Banis was going to say.
00:27:43So you're right back to the start of who is guilty here.
00:27:47Every time you thought you knew, you didn't really know.
00:27:54A big twist today as the trial continues for the second man charged.
00:27:58Joseph Banis expected to testify against Jeffrey Munt.
00:28:01The courtroom perked up when Bailiff Brown escorted Joey Banis in an orange jumpsuit to the stand.
00:28:08As Banis passed in front of the defense table, he gave his ex-boyfriend a strange, lovesick look.
00:28:16Banis agreed to testify in exchange for prosecutors dropping the death penalty.
00:28:20He was the prosecution's star witness, just like Jeff was the prosecution's star witness in Joey's case.
00:28:27Do you swear in front of a testimony you're about to give will be the truth and the whole truth?
00:28:30Yes, I do, Your Honor.
00:28:31All right. Go ahead.
00:28:32Do you introduce yourself to the message of your place?
00:28:34My name is Joseph Richard Banis.
00:28:37One of the things that we intended to introduce was Jeffrey's testimony from Joey's trial.
00:28:44So that the jury could hear his testimony, his version of events.
00:28:48If the jury in Jeffrey Munt's trial would have been able to hear both sides,
00:28:52they would have been able to see the whole story.
00:28:56But the court did not allow that to happen.
00:28:58What happened on December 14, 2009?
00:29:01We're all getting it on.
00:29:03We were comfortable. We were in bed together.
00:29:05The three of us started, you know, watching porn and, you know, some music was on and we were playing
00:29:11around in the bed and so forth.
00:29:13Jeff suggested that he still had some money that he would like to spend.
00:29:17And since the drugs were good, could Jamie get him some more?
00:29:22And Jamie said, oh, yeah, sure.
00:29:24When Jamie was gone, Jeff asked, do you think anybody would miss Jamie?
00:29:31We could just take his drugs.
00:29:33When Jamie came back in, we decided we were going to play together, have sex together.
00:29:40After we were done, I got up to get dressed.
00:29:45I heard a noise and when I turned around, Jamie and Jeff were struggling and they tumbled to the floor.
00:29:52They started struggling.
00:29:53I was still thinking this was some type of sex scene that was going on because that was one of
00:29:58the things we did involving in role play.
00:30:00Jamie yelled out, Joey, Joey, help me.
00:30:03Jamie started screaming, no, Joey, no, no, no, please, no.
00:30:06I saw blood flying and I saw a knife in Jeff's hands.
00:30:11Joey had a knife in his hand and was slashing at Jamie's throat.
00:30:15There was blood that was literally everywhere.
00:30:19I mean, you could actually smell the blood.
00:30:21And I don't know where Jeff pulled it from, but he got a gun and it was the .38 Smith
00:30:27& Wesson.
00:30:27Joey takes several steps back and grabs a gun.
00:30:31And he shot Jamie.
00:30:32And Joey shot him, I believe, twice.
00:30:35I thought Jeff was perhaps going to shoot me.
00:30:38He said he would kill me and kill my family.
00:30:41He would go and kill my family and kill my cats.
00:30:46Threatening Jeff's cats, that's now a crime in Kentucky.
00:30:50Threatening the pets of someone you're in a domestic relationship with is now a crime
00:30:55because that has shown our evolving understanding of the dynamics of domestic violence and sexual abuse.
00:31:03They said that we were going to wait till Home Depot or Lowe's open.
00:31:08Go there.
00:31:09Get a plastic tub.
00:31:11Get some lime.
00:31:13Joey was worried that it might start to smell.
00:31:15And I suggested sprinkling lime.
00:31:17I don't even know what the hell lime was, but he's familiar with it from gardening and from some movie
00:31:27where it's used to cover up the smell of decaying bodies.
00:31:32We got some type of cordage, some type of rope, something to help, you know, close the box that he
00:31:38was going to be put in.
00:31:39And Jamie's body had gone into rigor mortis, and I held the body.
00:31:46He sledgehammered Jamie's kneecaps.
00:31:50Joey hit him with a sledgehammer so that the bones broke.
00:31:55And I guess the muscles relaxed and moved, whatever, and he was put into the container.
00:32:03I don't remember it being a particularly difficult task.
00:32:10Jeffrey's testimony from trial one, it did paint him in more of an accurate light.
00:32:15He was cold, self-serving, and calculating.
00:32:18And because we weren't able to show the real testimony, the real him in that way, I think that that
00:32:24hurt us.
00:32:26All right, let's keep going.
00:32:27Mr. Banks, you're a thief, you're a drug dealer, you're a murderer, and you're a liar, correct?
00:32:34No.
00:32:35Now, you told Detective Lesher, the night that you were arrested, that he worked for the NSA and was a
00:32:43secret agent slash assassin, didn't he?
00:32:47Mr. Monk had told me that in the past, he had worked for the U.S. government, and he told
00:32:53me that it was for the NSA.
00:32:55You're just making stuff up, aren't you?
00:32:57Your client is the one who told, where did he get a bullet in his head?
00:33:01Now, the NSA...
00:33:02That's why I never knew what to believe or not to believe.
00:33:05You know what not to believe?
00:33:06Okay, tell me.
00:33:08You.
00:33:13A Lurid Louisville murder trial took yet another trend today.
00:33:17Plenty of other Lurid details coming out.
00:33:19Conroy continued to work her way through the evidence, then brought up the sex tape.
00:33:25Have you reviewed prior to your testimony here today a video where Joseph Vannis and Jeffrey Munt are engaged in
00:33:34sexual relations after the murder of Jamie Carroll?
00:33:37Yes, ma'am, I did.
00:33:38About 12 minutes long.
00:33:40May stop it before the end of it.
00:33:42Judge, may we approach before this one is played?
00:33:44This is designed to do nothing more than to inflate the passions of the jury.
00:33:48How graphic is it?
00:33:50How much do you intend to play?
00:33:51Not much.
00:33:52I mean, this is not necessarily what I want to do on a Wednesday afternoon, but it's about the nature
00:33:56of the relationship.
00:33:57The evidence is what the evidence is.
00:33:58The argument that a sexual relationship between an abused person and an abuser somehow influences that relationship is absurd.
00:34:09The only purpose is we have straight men on the jury, and it's to inflame the jurors against Mr. Munt
00:34:16with this graphic sexual test.
00:34:18If there's any way to avoid the graphic nature of this, there's not.
00:34:22Not on this one.
00:34:24No, I'm going to allow you to do it.
00:34:26All right.
00:34:28Is it raw?
00:34:29It is raw.
00:34:32You're going to ride it, Steve?
00:34:34I'm going to ride it or else you're going to fucking power drive it.
00:34:37I might be able to do that.
00:34:44Ears reddening, Jeffrey Munt looks straight ahead for the entire length of the clip
00:34:49as the jury and everyone else in the courtroom watched Joey and Jeffrey have sex on the screen.
00:34:57Who's your bitch?
00:34:58My fucking bitch.
00:35:00Huh?
00:35:01Joey's my fucking bitch.
00:35:02My little bottom bitch.
00:35:04Is he right?
00:35:06My bottom bitch boy.
00:35:08I'm going to stick my cock in his ass when the fuck I want.
00:35:11Ride him.
00:35:13I need to ride my fucking cock.
00:35:16Jeff doesn't appear distressed.
00:35:18Jeff isn't crying.
00:35:19Jeff isn't begging for Joey to stop.
00:35:22You need to lift your ass up.
00:35:24If anything, it was Jeffrey Munt who was directing what was going to happen and calling the shots.
00:35:31They wanted to show that Jeff was a top and that therefore he could not have been the victim
00:35:37of an abusive relationship, which any, that's bullshit.
00:35:42You like video-taping your bitch?
00:35:45Fuck yeah.
00:35:47Everybody that was in the courtroom was texting.
00:35:50They're playing porn.
00:35:53In Division 3, you better get here now.
00:35:59After the first 10 seconds or so, it was like, okay, we've seen enough.
00:36:04Do we really have to see all of this?
00:36:08You would have heard of pin drop.
00:36:09It was such an uncomfortable moment.
00:36:13We stopped it before Jeffrey Munt said the N-word.
00:36:18We thought that that would be crossing the line and risk offending people.
00:36:25All right.
00:36:27I need a break.
00:36:29It's very hard to defend somebody you believe is innocent when there are salacious facts.
00:36:33I'm not sure why sex is any more offensive than stabbing and shooting a person.
00:36:39The dominant narrative here was that Jeff didn't participate in any of this willingly.
00:36:48Romines then had Latonya Jones on the stand, an advocacy programs administrator for nine years with the Kentucky Domestic Violence
00:36:56Association in Frankfurt.
00:36:57She established that Jeffrey Munt displayed all the signs of a typical battered spouse.
00:37:04I was called as an educational witness.
00:37:06My purpose was to educate the jury about the dynamics of domestic violence.
00:37:12Putting on that evidence was important so that the jury would know the truth of what a traumatic, abusive relationship
00:37:21is.
00:37:22These relationships where there is violence and where power and control sits at the heart don't make a lot of
00:37:31sense to people who are not inside of those relationships.
00:37:35Her relevance to the whole thing was marginal at best because she was talking in theoretical domestic violence terms and
00:37:44not necessarily about anything specific to this case.
00:37:48So if I came to you and I said, well, this guy claims he's being battered, but I've got a
00:37:53video of them having sex.
00:37:54May we approve.
00:37:55It would be improper for an expert of any type to testify to the ultimate issue.
00:38:02That would be the legal phrase.
00:38:04So to ask, is Jeffrey Munt a victim of domestic violence?
00:38:08You can't ask her that.
00:38:10I'll withdraw the question, Judge.
00:38:11Um, no.
00:38:12May we approve?
00:38:14I want an admonishment to the jury.
00:38:16He did that on purpose.
00:38:17And you know that he did.
00:38:18I want an admonishment.
00:38:20Ongoing sexual relationship is not controversial.
00:38:22It's not cutting-edge theory.
00:38:24It is accepted in this area of expertise.
00:38:26Counsel.
00:38:27Yes, sir.
00:38:27You became very close to simply defying this court in an inappropriate fashion.
00:38:34The question was so suggestive of the facts and evidence in this case.
00:38:38I cannot imagine why you did what you did.
00:38:41All right.
00:38:41Stay back.
00:38:42Sorry.
00:38:43Ladies and gentlemen, please disregard that last question and answer.
00:38:48The facts of this particular case will be decided by you and you only.
00:38:53You can't unring a bell.
00:38:55When a judge tells jurors to forget what they just heard, if they were bored before the judge
00:39:03said that, I guarantee you that they're interested now.
00:39:09Both sides rested their case today.
00:39:11It was day nine of this trial.
00:39:12Closing arguments are currently underway.
00:39:14If you are a victim, if you are a witness, if you are a hostage, you act like it.
00:39:21It's the final chapter in a twisted tale of sex drugs and murder.
00:39:24We're going to take you live downtown right now to the courthouse where we're about to get a verdict.
00:39:31Bishop, can you stand, please?
00:39:34All right.
00:39:38For murder, we, the jury, found a defendant, Jeffrey Mutt, not guilty.
00:39:45The jury deliberated for nearly eight hours before finding a Louisville man not guilty of
00:39:50killing his former lover and drug dealer.
00:39:52I was just dumbstruck.
00:39:53Like, how in the hell did a jury find him not guilty of murder?
00:39:59They beat him with a sledgehammer.
00:40:01They'd stuff him in a Rubbermaid in their basement.
00:40:05And for six months, they live happily ever after.
00:40:10I still can't believe that he's not guilty.
00:40:13Jeffrey Mutt was convicted of lesser charges.
00:40:16Convicting him of robbery and tampering.
00:40:17Sentenced to three years for robbery and five years for tampering.
00:40:21The wrong message was sent here, which is that you can, in fact, get away with murder.
00:40:28The jury simply got it wrong.
00:40:36What happens in a courtroom, it's about winning and losing.
00:40:41Very rarely do we truly get an honest view of what happened.
00:40:48And that, for me, makes it difficult to trust a system that we would call a justice system.
00:41:05Follow me.
00:41:07So as we walk down the steps here, this basement is what I use for storage of my files.
00:41:12This was one of the exhibits that we showed at trial.
00:41:15Looking at that individual, that is not the individual that presented himself to that jury.
00:41:20We know that's the real Mr. Mutt.
00:41:24That's the real Jeffrey.
00:41:27I was the only one that ever visited Jeff in jail.
00:41:31He kept promising me that he would tell me the full story.
00:41:35But he didn't want to talk about it there.
00:41:37Of course, in jail, it's being recorded and all that.
00:41:40Mutt made parole a year after his trial, having served just four years of his eight-year sentence.
00:41:50And when he got released, we went and picked him up and brought him back to Louisville.
00:41:55And we had lunch with his parents.
00:41:57No, we had lunch at Red Lobster.
00:42:01And then that was it.
00:42:03After he was paroled and basically served his time, he kind of disappeared.
00:42:08And no one even knows where he is today.
00:42:11So you don't know where he is?
00:42:13Last I knew it was Baltimore.
00:42:17And he told me that he got a job at a movie theater and he wouldn't tell people he was
00:42:24from Louisville.
00:42:25And then slowly he stopped talking to me and then he ghosted me.
00:42:31Yeah.
00:42:33And I think that's what hurts the most.
00:42:36To think how I tried to be such a good friend and then all of a sudden, nothing.
00:42:43Can I ask you a question?
00:42:45Yeah.
00:42:46Have you been able to locate Jeff?
00:42:48No.
00:42:49I was going to ask if you, do you know where he is?
00:42:52See, that's a lot of stuff that I just am not, and I don't mean to be a stick in
00:42:57the mud.
00:42:57I don't mean to be a lawyer's lawyer, although I'm kind of proud of being that.
00:43:03I got to go.
00:43:04I'm sorry.
00:43:05I hope I wasn't too circumspect.
00:43:08Much like reading a book about it, Jeff's case is over for me.
00:43:12Much like a lot of clients, I don't keep up with them when my case with them is over.
00:43:17I assume he's doing well.
00:43:20So the question is, where is Jeffrey Munt?
00:43:23Your guess is as good as mine, but I will make an agreement with you.
00:43:28If you find him, you let me know, and if I find him, I'll let you know.
00:43:36This is a prepaid collect call from Joseph Bates.
00:43:40An incarcerated individual.
00:43:42This call will be recorded and may be monitored.
00:43:51Were you surprised that Jeffrey just disappeared?
00:44:16The laptop that we actually have here is a digital copy of Joey's laptop.
00:44:25In this case, with all the videoing they did of each other, it was overwhelming because
00:44:31at that time, there was no digital forensic unit of the Louisville Metro Police Department.
00:44:35There wasn't a way to sift through all of that information.
00:44:39There's a lot of files, over 700,000 files.
00:44:43It was a one terabyte or tegabyte or it was a big one.
00:44:47I clicked on every link that I could go through, but could not access anything on a Mac.
00:44:56I guarantee you there's information on his laptop that people haven't seen.
00:45:00I guarantee you that.
00:45:06You know, I had all kinds of little recording devices and I was always trying to get him to
00:45:13admit what really happened.
00:45:15How many people have you sealed, Jace?
00:45:19Only myself, Joey.
00:45:20Only myself.
00:45:22Not that bad.
00:45:24He was cagey as hell because, you know, I mean, he's in the background and not saying
00:45:28very much of anything.
00:45:32Don't care about me.
00:45:36That wasn't even fucking recording.
00:45:40Nice and close to hamming it up, hey?
00:45:42Don't know what I've done.
00:45:43Oh, yeah, you sure do.
00:45:48Yeah, what I've really done, not what you imagine I'm doing.
00:45:50You can't even fucking tell me fucking what I've done and what fucking...
00:45:55What?
00:45:56Why?
00:45:56Why?
00:45:56Why?
00:45:57You can't talk to me without getting the gun out.
00:46:00You need to be careful.
00:46:01About doubt.
00:46:02Not so much in yourself, but in others.
00:46:04What?
00:46:05Doubt.
00:46:06G-O-U-B-T.
00:46:07What are you fucking talking about?
00:46:10I don't understand.
00:46:11Lack of belief.
00:46:12Doubt.
00:46:12Doubt what, Jase?
00:46:15I said, you better be careful.
00:46:17People will doubt you.
00:46:20He kept on threatening you.
00:46:21Saying, Joey, you can never say anything to anybody about this because nobody will ever
00:46:26believe you.
00:46:27Because you have the criminal record and I don't.
00:46:31It was not a healthy relationship.
00:46:38I don't know.
00:46:41I don't know.
00:47:03I've got a healthy relationship.
00:47:11Joey missed me or something and wanted me to come back after GLOW.
00:47:17And they had that new house in Old Louisville.
00:47:22And then I was Joey's assistant there for a while.
00:47:35When I first went to Joey and Jason's house, they took me down to the basement and to show
00:47:41me where the laundry room was and stuff.
00:47:46They tried to give me that guy's clothes and said that the guy had just basically left
00:47:51them there and went back home.
00:47:53He didn't warn them, I guess.
00:47:54And they were all a little big on me, obviously, so I was like, no, I don't need them.
00:48:00It was kind of traumatizing to think about that I was there feeding cats and there was
00:48:05a dead body downstairs and I just didn't know it yet.
00:48:12You know, that could have been me and the way that my life was going then, it almost
00:48:18was me.
00:48:23We started to hook up a few different times, but I would pull back because it just seemed
00:48:28weird, the two of them, their connection.
00:48:31Something weird was going on there, like just the way they'd talk to each other.
00:48:36You could feel the tension between the two of them a lot.
00:48:44Yeah.
00:48:44See, I'm walking around naked in this fucking place.
00:48:49Got it in my hand.
00:48:52It's not closing.
00:48:59Every single bedroom had its own padlock.
00:49:03Like the key ring was just a bunch of padlock keys.
00:49:06Every single door had its own padlock.
00:49:09It was very, very weird.
00:49:14Jeff had lost his job at the end of January after the murder and never put in a resume for
00:49:24another job.
00:49:26You know, he was supposedly renovating this house and turning it into a bed and breakfast.
00:49:33But basically, he was in serious debt.
00:49:38If they were planning to fix it up, they hadn't gotten far.
00:49:42That house was in complete disarray.
00:49:44It does seem like they were desperate for money.
00:49:47Here.
00:49:50Going to the paper cleansing site.
00:49:58Yeah.
00:49:59That's how we do it.
00:50:02They had the telltale signs of two people that were living daily high on meth.
00:50:06I mean, they did a tour of their apartment showing off their counterfeiting process.
00:50:11No one does that unless you're just completely out of your mind on meth.
00:50:15I'm all about drug use.
00:50:16I love drugs.
00:50:17You know, a little theft by deception.
00:50:19Sure, I've done that as well.
00:50:21But guess what?
00:50:22I'm not a computer programmer.
00:50:25This was something he was totally into.
00:50:27He was really good with computers.
00:50:30He was really good with online stuff and figuring all kinds of stuff out.
00:50:36I kept feeling that he was going to turn on me and try and throw me under the bus for
00:50:41everything.
00:50:42And so, there was a time when I started documenting his criminal activities.
00:50:48So, particularly the counterfeiting and stuff.
00:50:51What are you doing?
00:50:53I'm editing the dollar bill.
00:50:54A hundred.
00:50:55The reverse up still.
00:50:57Well, yes.
00:50:58That's how fast it paints on the screen.
00:51:00To put it this way, this would be seven HDTVs wide and five tall.
00:51:06The image size that we're editing.
00:51:09It's that high resolution.
00:51:26We've made all this counterfeit money.
00:51:29And we're going up to Chicago to turn counterfeit money into real money.
00:51:48We got to the Hyatt Hotel on Wacker Drive in Chicago.
00:51:53And I asked Joey if he had any wands to tip the ballet with.
00:51:59And then I got changed from the ballet.
00:52:02He passed off a bill to the guy in broad daylight up there, the ballet.
00:52:09He was so spun out on meth that he grabbed stuff that he wasn't basically trashed.
00:52:15He grabbed some tester bills that had been washed and scrubbed and printed on over and over again
00:52:22to test the color and passed it to the ballet.
00:52:25Quick news. This is Wake 3 News.
00:52:28Suit Louisville men are behind bars in Chicago now after police found $50,000 in counterfeit cash in their hotel
00:52:34room.
00:52:35I couldn't believe it was the same Jeff I met.
00:52:37It didn't look like him.
00:52:39He didn't look happy.
00:52:40He looked angry.
00:52:41Well, obviously he just got...
00:52:43Arrested.
00:52:44Arrested.
00:52:45They also found weapons, fake IDs, and a suspected date rape drug.
00:52:50I grew up a sheltered life.
00:52:52I don't know that much about drugs or anything.
00:52:55And, you know, people would say, you didn't know?
00:52:58I mean, he's always sniffling.
00:53:00I'm like, well, he said he had allergies.
00:53:03Yeah.
00:53:08We get arrested and I knew that my bail would be higher because I had a felony record.
00:53:14And so I told the detectives that he didn't know anything about it.
00:53:18There was all enough stuff.
00:53:20I was trying to get him released on the lower box so that he could come and bail me out.
00:53:28So the funny thing about being scared of me doesn't really hold water because, you know, I mean, I was
00:53:34basically someplace where I couldn't get to him.
00:53:36I couldn't do anything.
00:53:37He couldn't have left me at jail.
00:53:41But anyways, he came back and paid $20,000 to get me out of jail.
00:53:53I come back to Louisville with him and it becomes just a terrible, terrible situation where there's no resolution.
00:54:05What?
00:54:06I'm not getting into the apron.
00:54:08I have a cigarette in my hand.
00:54:09I don't care.
00:54:10I don't want to hurt you.
00:54:11I don't want to hurt you.
00:54:12I don't want to hurt you.
00:54:13I don't care.
00:54:13You're only a...
00:54:14Do you understand?
00:54:15Goddamn, quit!
00:54:16I'm quitting.
00:54:18I quit.
00:54:19It's over.
00:54:20Fine.
00:54:21Oh, great.
00:54:21Now it's over.
00:54:23Fucking asshole!
00:54:24You just said quit when you wanted to quit.
00:54:26Quit!
00:54:27You're goddamn pushing!
00:54:28All I want is for us to move forward!
00:54:32Great.
00:54:33Then move forward.
00:54:35Stop fucking making me your problem.
00:54:55What did you take?
00:54:57I didn't take anything.
00:55:00Jace!
00:55:01Jace!
00:55:02Jace!
00:55:03Jace!
00:55:08Jace!
00:55:14What did you take?
00:55:15What did I do?
00:55:16Or what did I do?
00:55:17Jace!
00:55:22I have to...
00:55:25And...
00:55:26Jace!
00:55:28...the bullet.
00:55:30Bind up a card...
00:55:32...of Slava.
00:55:55The next line is that I feel fine, and I didn't know that you were even fucking awake.
00:56:099-1-1 Operator Walker, where's your emergency?
00:56:12Please, 1425 South 4th Street, my ex-boyfriend is attacking me in my house. Please call me immediately.
00:56:17Who is attacking your door?
00:56:19Joey Banis.
00:56:21While I was sleeping off, being up dazed on meth, he took my keys, my phone, my wallet, went into
00:56:29the guest bedroom,
00:56:30and called 9-1-1 and took a hammer, banged it on the door, and made, you know, background noises.
00:56:39I told him that his soon-to-be ex-boyfriend was trying to kill him, which I wasn't. I was
00:56:51asleep.
00:56:51And they should break into the house and arrest him.
00:56:56So the domestic run comes out. They make the run, separate the parties.
00:57:03While they're separated, Munt says to one of the officers that Banis killed a guy.
00:57:10The officer comes downstairs and tells Banis,
00:57:13Man, your boyfriend must be really mad at you. He'd just accuse you of killing somebody.
00:57:17Anyways, he won't come out of the bedroom until I'm in cuffs.
00:57:20When I come out of the bedroom, he says,
00:57:24he's killed someone at that point.
00:57:26And I was like, no, no, no, no, no.
00:57:29I didn't kill anyone. He killed the person.
00:57:32You know, and I'll be happy to take you to give you the story.
00:57:35So I went down to the homicide department,
00:57:38and I started giving a statement.
00:57:43So he comes down, and he tells Lesher everything about what happened with this,
00:57:48but he puts it all on Munt.
00:57:50Police were definitely not inclined to believe me.
00:57:54You're not making this stuff up.
00:57:56This is not a lie to get back at him because you were arrested for a different crime.
00:58:05Munt came in there and acted at first like he didn't know anything about the case
00:58:11or the murder or the body or anything.
00:58:13And then when he was about to be given a polygraph test,
00:58:16he said that he couldn't take it because he'd been lying to them all along.
00:58:21I mean, everything I told you panned out, correct?
00:58:24The one thing I keyed on was Munt talks about that Bannis slit the throat.
00:58:29Bannis says that Munt stabbed him in the neck.
00:58:32Doesn't talk about slit the throat.
00:58:33So if you look at the autopsy report, it looks like they're stab wounds, not a slit.
00:58:42That might seem like not a big deal.
00:58:45I think that is a huge deal.
00:58:47Why is that not part of the story?
00:58:49I don't know.
00:58:50You all are writing a story, not me.
00:58:53I didn't write the story.
00:58:56I'm literally just reading what's in the case file.
00:59:00I've learned over the years, you know, my time in homicide and work in narcotics,
00:59:06that your motive, you don't really have to kill somebody to rob them of their dope and their money,
00:59:12especially like as brutal as what that was.
00:59:15This was extremely personal.
00:59:18Why would you do this?
00:59:19I mean, there is no real motive for this.
00:59:22Jamie was a low-level drug dealer who probably had a couple hundred dollars on him that night.
00:59:27He probably didn't have enough drugs to make it through the week.
00:59:31We had a theory.
00:59:35I mean, the killing occurred during the middle of a sex act.
00:59:40I think it was a thrill.
00:59:47This is a prepaid collect call from...
00:59:50Joseph Bannis.
00:59:51An incarcerated individual.
00:59:52This call is not private.
00:59:54Do you believe this should be a private call?
00:59:56Please hang up.
00:59:57Follow facility instructions.
00:59:59Ultimately, I mean, it all comes down to this.
01:00:03Mutt and Jamie, they were both there to fuck me.
01:00:10We had a couple three-ways.
01:00:12I was normally restrained.
01:00:14They were both normally, you know, talking to me.
01:00:19Jace had actual ropes that he used to tie people up.
01:00:24He knew a zillion different rope-tying tricks and knots and all that type of stuff.
01:00:32And it was fun, but Mutt had to go to work in the morning.
01:00:37And it infuriated him that Jamie and I stayed behind in his, Mutt's house, in his bed,
01:00:49continuing to get high and have sex while he had to go to work.
01:00:54That was the seed that germinated into the jealousy that caused the murder.
01:01:02When the murder actually occurred, I was restrained.
01:01:08You know, when I was tied up and Jamie was asking me,
01:01:12Joey, help me, and I couldn't help him.
01:01:14I mean, I've had nightmares about that for years.
01:01:17I was plagued by the sound of his voice asking me to help him.
01:01:22And, you know, I just, I couldn't do anything.
01:01:27You have one minute left.
01:01:29Ultimately, my friend died.
01:01:31Jamie was my friend.
01:01:33And I feel terrible about that.
01:01:39I have pictures of him.
01:01:41I think seven days before the murder.
01:01:44Looking over my shoulder, we were both smiling and just, like, we were friends.
01:01:53I hate Mutt because, ultimately, he killed Jamie and really destroyed my life, too.
01:02:03Goodbye.
01:02:09Why do you think Joey asked me to reach out to you?
01:02:13Well, I guess because he wanted someone to paint him in a good light.
01:02:20Here's what's fucked up.
01:02:21How long was that body there?
01:02:24Seven months?
01:02:26And neither one of them took the opportunity at some point to say,
01:02:33Hey, I'm living with crazy, and there's a dead guy in my basement.
01:02:41Neither one of them?
01:02:44Fuck both of them.
01:02:47What everyone forgets is that Jamie Carroll died.
01:02:54And so I decided, I'm like, I'm going to do it for him because he doesn't have a voice.
01:02:57And I do.
01:03:00From what I've gathered, the body was very well maintained because of the wine.
01:03:05I'm glad it preserved him.
01:03:07I'm glad he raised enough hell from that little box so we could get him out.
01:03:12Get him brought to where he could be laid to rest properly.
01:03:25I'm baffled.
01:03:26I'm confused.
01:03:28I don't know what made my friend enter a room with two people that she barely knew.
01:03:37And not come out.
01:03:43Jamie Carroll should be alive.
01:03:45And it doesn't matter, drag queen, drug dealer, or whatever.
01:03:51I can be in a situation that I think,
01:03:55I'm just doing what I do.
01:03:59And not be aware of the danger that might exist because of the toxicity in the relationship.
01:04:07And then find myself in a really dangerous situation.
01:04:14Yeah, that's the lie we tell when we say it's just about those two people,
01:04:17or it's none of my business.
01:04:21What happens behind those closed doors finds its way into public spaces.
01:04:27And so it puts us all at risk.
01:04:30That's the saddest part.
01:04:35The monsters really do exist.
01:04:47But we create our own.
01:04:52With the drugs.
01:04:54And the lies and the bullshit that we choose to live.
01:05:12There were many things I did not know, did not understand.
01:05:16What it all meant.
01:05:19Why people did the things they did or said the things they said.
01:05:25What lingered behind the walls of 1435 South 4th Street.
01:05:32And what really happened in the dark basement.
01:05:35What lurked in the dark room found in every human mind.
01:05:40What's that kind of thing with the spirit of transport?
01:05:51The law is we're all at the city.
01:05:59For our people's work, they were all at the same time.
01:06:00Sometime with eventual adventuría106 Sketch 마지막.
01:06:01To be sure that we report to them both arms into a shell.
01:06:01Else this day so they felt wet and uniform our air.
01:06:01To be found everybody cuz there was no rest.
01:06:09I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
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