- 46 minutes ago
n the first ever ACFC Podcast (maybe) Adam is joined by Match of the Day and Sky Sports commentator, as well as the voice of the Club World Cup, Rich Wolfenden.Was the tournament a total disaster? Who are the real winners? Which footballing royalty did Rich get trapped in a taxi with? All this and more discussed in needless detail.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello everybody, welcome to ACFC, myself Adam Cleary and to be properly introduced a special guest and welcome also to
00:08an experimental format that's a cross between like a roundup of the Club World Cup and also a test case
00:13to see if I can be bothered hosting a podcast at some point in the future.
00:17And yes, for everybody asking, we are still going on about the Club World Cup. This is the last one.
00:22We're moving on after this. This is it wrapped up and neatly put away and hopefully you'll enjoy it in
00:27the process.
00:27Anyway, we have esteemed company with us today, so let's not fight. The star of the Radio X Indie Night,
00:34Everton fan and voice of the Club World Cup, Richard Amadeus Wolfenden. How are you doing?
00:41Richard A. Wolfenden here. Yeah, good mate, how are you?
00:43Yeah, I somehow have not got football burnout yet. I'm expecting that to hit me like a ton of bricks,
00:48but right now I'm still quite enthused about the whole scenario. You're not long back from America.
00:54No, I got back from New York City, did the Fluminense Chelsea semi-final and then flew back to London
01:01to do the radio show on Friday night.
01:03See, I got back Friday afternoon and straight onto the Elizabeth Lyon, dropped my stuff off, quick shower, got changed,
01:10had a shave, went into Leicester Square to do the radio show.
01:13I know I'm really tired, but if London does not hear the Fratellis in the next two hours, the whole
01:17city is going to grind to a hole.
01:19Honestly, if Mr. Brightside didn't get played that Friday night, there would have been up, bro.
01:22So, just for anyone who doesn't know, you've been doing a bit of football commentating lately.
01:26Yes.
01:26You've done Match of the Day, is that right?
01:28Yeah, I did my first couple of Match of the Days earlier on the season, so you might have heard
01:31me if you're a Brighton or Norwich fan, I did that FA Cup game.
01:34Oh, you got that patch, did you?
01:36Yeah, that was my patch. But then I did West Ham v Leicester, which was one of the most forgettable
01:41games of the season.
01:44West Ham were poor, but because they were playing Ruud van Nistelrooy's Leicester City, they won very easily.
01:50So yeah, a bit of that, you'll hear me regularly on the EFL, a bit on TalkSport as well.
01:55So yeah, here there and everywhere.
01:56And now, first ever podcast guest on AC.
01:59When this does not get off the ground, I could be like, well, I didn't get the guests right at
02:03the very start, I should have gone a little bit harder.
02:04But very happy to have you here, Rich.
02:06Now, before we start, I want to clarify, my idea for this was to make it a three-person thing,
02:11because obviously the Club World Cup, still quite a controversial subject.
02:16And also because of the street people, it reduces the amount of talking we have to do by 17%.
02:21Drops it from a half to a third, I did the maths on that, so that would have been easier.
02:25But obviously, you are a radio DJ slash football commentator, and I'm an only child with a YouTube channel, so
02:31we're not going to have any dead air, are we?
02:32It's not going to drag.
02:34But unfortunately, the independent sports desk.
02:36Do you know there's other sports going on?
02:38I've heard of them.
02:39There's boxing, boxing, there's some golf and stuff like that, so they couldn't drop everything at 24 hours' notice.
02:44Apparently, that's not how a real newspaper desk actually works.
02:47Fair enough.
02:47They don't want to cover a tournament which finished a week ago?
02:49No, and certainly not at a day's notice to drop everything to do so.
02:52So it's just the two of us, but if at any point you feel it's not fair and balanced, pause
02:56the video, pretend you're the third guest, and just say it at the screen, and that can be the contribution.
03:02Because obviously, we've come out of this probably with more questions than got answered about sort of like the World
03:07Cup next year, playing in that kind of heat, how much longer can we persist with this poisonous dream of
03:13capitalism, all of this.
03:15But I really enjoyed covering the games.
03:17I thought the games were really good.
03:18And you've just been getting flown around America, and judging by your Instagram story, having quite nice dinners and quite
03:24nice hotels.
03:24So we're quite up on this.
03:26We're quite positive on the whole experience.
03:28So I did want a third person to be like, yeah, guys, but the attendances, and yeah, guys, but Infantino's
03:33a bit weird.
03:34So we haven't got that.
03:36No.
03:36So we're just going to press on and try and have a nice time regardless.
03:39And the first thing I've got written down, right, just says vibes.
03:42Vibes.
03:43So you were there.
03:43Yes.
03:44You couldn't really assess the vibes over here.
03:46We just had like the vibes people were trying to tell you there were on social media, like, oh, nobody
03:50cares about this.
03:51Oh, it's glorified friendly.
03:52But you were there from start to finish.
03:55Could you describe the vibe?
03:58Yeah, the vibe was strange to begin with.
04:01So I was flown out initially to Atlanta.
04:04I don't know if you've been to Atlanta before.
04:05I've never been to Atlanta.
04:05Atlanta is a very strange place.
04:08It's kind of like the crew of America.
04:11It's kind of like, yeah, it's like the hub for transatlanticism.
04:14Transport, like all planes to America go through Atlanta.
04:17Kind of like trains going up north.
04:19Yeah, so there's a lot of like, it's a transfer city.
04:22So there's not really much going on.
04:24There's the Coca-Cola Museum and CNN are based there.
04:27But that was about it.
04:28Did you do either of those of interest?
04:29Neither.
04:30Right.
04:30Okay.
04:30I was mostly visiting burger joints.
04:35That's what they call them.
04:36That's what they call them.
04:37Yeah, exactly.
04:37Oh, the Americanisms you pick up when you're out there, mad.
04:40But we were there for Chelsea v LAFC.
04:43First game of Chelsea's group.
04:45And I remember that.
04:46We covered that on the channel.
04:47Yeah, it was, you know, Chelsea looked okay.
04:50Didn't think they'd win the tournament after that performance.
04:53But LA maybe had about 500 fans.
04:56That was, I think I can remember that at the time.
04:58Because we covered that game.
05:00And that was where the game really felt like a pre-season friendly.
05:03Chelsea looked like they were simultaneously winding down from last season.
05:06But also still trying to keep the energy up.
05:08So the selection of the team was very strong.
05:10Yeah.
05:10I thought.
05:11But the performance was so labelled.
05:13Can you remember, what time of day was that?
05:15This will be a recurring theme.
05:16Yeah.
05:17So that would have been.
05:17That early game.
05:19It would have been an afternoon game in the States.
05:21Yeah.
05:21So it would have been evening here.
05:22They were.
05:23I think every afternoon game I saw, the energy levels of the players was visibly quite low.
05:28Yeah.
05:28But I think the main takeaway people had from that game was that was the first time they did that
05:31sort of sweeping shot at the stadium.
05:33And you could see like, oh, they've packed the fans into what in wrestling terms is known as hard cam.
05:39So like where the majority of the time the camera is sitting, that area looks populated.
05:43But as soon as the angles changed, it was a replay for a goal or a sweeping shot at the
05:46stadium.
05:47It looked barren.
05:48And I think a lot of people sort of formed an opinion of the tournament in that exact moment.
05:53And they found it very difficult to shrug it off.
05:55Was it like, because you were there, even though the attendance was low, was it like, were people into it?
06:00Was it like mostly sort of traveling fans?
06:02Did people come for it?
06:03From what I heard going around the stadium, there wasn't any English Chelsea fans there.
06:07We had quite a lot of Chelsea fans in our hotel.
06:09And you know what the strange thing was?
06:11Talking to American Chelsea fans about serious things.
06:16Like, Maduweke's good, but he's got to play on the right because he's no good on the left.
06:19I've been a huge fan of Chelsea ever since the Clinton administration.
06:22Yeah, like, honestly, it was just bizarre.
06:25But yeah, it didn't feel like, you know, the lads who live in West London who go to every Chelsea
06:29game were out there.
06:32But Atlanta Stadium's massive, it's like 80,000 capacity.
06:35And we were in, like, the gods.
06:37But then there was no one on our tier on our side or the other side.
06:40And then the other tier below, that was maybe, like, a quarter full.
06:44If they'd have held it at, like, Pride Park or MK Don Stadium.
06:49Like, it would have looked brilliant.
06:51What is Crew's actual stadium called?
06:53Gresti Road.
06:54Yeah, if they held it there.
06:54Yeah.
06:55Oh, my God.
06:56Very much the crew of the UK crew.
06:57Yeah, and then all the L.A. fans from Crew could have come rather than, yeah, it would have been
07:01amazing.
07:01But the vibe in Atlanta was strange.
07:04But as the tournament went on, it got bigger and better.
07:07We did Flamengo a couple of times.
07:11And everyone talks about how great, like, the Boca fans were and the Fluminense fans.
07:15But the Flamengo fans were brilliant as well.
07:18They beat Chelsea in Philadelphia.
07:20And they were just going for it constantly.
07:23They were jumping up and down, making so much noise.
07:25It was when we landed in Philadelphia, our flight was full of Flamengo fans.
07:29Wow.
07:29And, like, you know when the flight lands when you've flown to Greece or Turkey or whatever on holiday
07:34and there's a cheesy, like, British round of applause.
07:37Yes.
07:37The Flamengo fans were up and, like, banging the top of the plane.
07:41Wow.
07:41Like, chanting in Portuguese.
07:44Like, it was...
07:44What's that about?
07:45Were they really scared?
07:48Yeah, just relieved to be in Philadelphia.
07:51But, yeah.
07:51So, they added so much to it.
07:53So, the Brazilians were a vibe.
07:55I think, yeah, because the Chelsea-LA game to form an opinion on, I thought it was quite weird.
07:59Because, one, it's in the middle of the afternoon.
08:01So, even if you have got a massive contingent of Chelsea supporters in Los Angeles, which I'm sure do exist.
08:07Yeah, yeah.
08:07Doing it in the middle of the work day for the first game of the tournament is a bit of
08:11a hard sell.
08:12And, again, if you're an L.A. fan, it's not even...
08:16You've got to then take the day off work to go to Atlanta, which I assume is not a 10
08:20-minute drive.
08:21No, I think it's, like, 1,000 miles away or something.
08:23Like, so it's a real difficult sell to try and get anybody in that stadium.
08:27Yeah.
08:27So, I thought...
08:28I did worry when I watched that game.
08:30I was like, if this is, like, the vibe of the tournament.
08:32If this is...
08:32We're seeing every game is like this and it's just sort of, like...
08:35Literally, pick a random city in America.
08:38Who lives there and supports this club and does not work 9-5?
08:41Yeah.
08:42That's who's going to that stadium.
08:43I was like, this could be in real, real trouble.
08:45Yeah.
08:45But I think soon...
08:46Like, I'm glad you mentioned the Brazilian sides because I felt like as soon as they sort of got involved
08:50and got airtime
08:51and started playing the big European teams, so the games were getting more widely sort of watched elsewhere,
08:56you started saying, like, oh, this is...
08:58The European clubs are not really contributing here because of the distance to travel
09:02and the prestige of the tournament compared to what they've just played in
09:05and the time of year.
09:06But the South American fans, the North American fans, like Monterey as well, I thought were unbelievable.
09:11The Mexican teams.
09:12Wee Dad as well and Esperance, like, the North African teams.
09:17Like, they had a massive following as well, which was...
09:19I didn't realise Wee Dad was, like, Casablanca.
09:21I just was like, oh, we...
09:22I'd just been calling them Wee Dad.
09:23And then I saw it, like, written down fully and I was like, Casablanca?
09:26Like the film?
09:27Yeah.
09:27It sounds so much more exotic than Wee Dad.
09:29I would just be Casablanca FC.
09:30I don't know if that's glaringly offensive to Wee Dad fans, but I would rebrand that
09:35as Casablanca for better.
09:36Casablanca town.
09:38Casablanca rovers.
09:39Casablanca, yeah.
09:40Casablanca wanderers.
09:42An-an Casablanca or something like that.
09:44Yeah.
09:45Yeah, but anyway, so the vibe at the tournament at the start was, this is a hard sell for fans
09:50and hard sell for the global audience.
09:52Was there a point in the tournament where you felt that flip?
09:54Because I felt like by the end, sort of certainly the quarterfinals and the semifinals,
09:59all of a sudden, whether it was hate watching or not, I don't know, but there was genuine
10:02interest in what was going on.
10:04And everybody all of a sudden had an opinion on it that was a bit more sort of developed
10:08than just, ah, it's just glorified friendlies.
10:10When you were out there, was there a bit where it felt all of a sudden like, ah, this is
10:13actually
10:14like, people care about this now?
10:16Yeah.
10:16I mean, for us, like, we didn't have it too bad atmosphere-wise because we followed
10:21Real Madrid through the group stage and, you know, they're going to sell out wherever
10:25they go.
10:25So the Real Madrid games were fine, but Chelsea was not as well supported.
10:30But when it got to the knockout phase, really, that's when it kind of stepped up a level.
10:35So we did, in the round of 16, we did Real Madrid against Juventus in Miami.
10:40So, you know, Miami's a minority majority, like a very South American kind of influx in
10:46Miami.
10:46So that was very well supported and a great noise.
10:49Bayern Flamengo was who we did.
10:50Bayern Flamengo was good, yeah, yeah.
10:51Bayern Flamengo in the round of 16.
10:53That was in Miami as well.
10:54And that was absolutely class because Harry Kane was brilliant, scored a couple of goals.
11:00But Jorginho scored a penalty for Flamengo, who still looks absolutely brilliant, by the
11:06way.
11:06I know the Brazilian leagues are high standard, but he feels too good to have gone to his
11:11retirement home.
11:13We're going to get on to sort of like the football just a bit after this.
11:16But I think there was a real sort of like, I don't want to say humbling, but I certainly
11:19felt that like this tournament, if the European teams take it seriously, then they just dominate.
11:24They win every game until they play each other, then one of them goes out.
11:27But I think it was quite an eye-opener for a lot of people.
11:31It's sort of like the standard of these divisions, the Brazilian league especially.
11:34Yeah.
11:35Because there was a lot of talk about how like, oh, you know, they've just come off the back
11:38of the Champions League campaign.
11:39But I think it was Moresca sat down and was like, you do realise in the last 12 months,
11:42this team we're playing have played more games of football than we have.
11:45Like I think Chelsea were on like 64 and they were playing, was it Palmeiras in the semi?
11:51Yeah.
11:51They played 70.
11:52And it was like, they have the same workload as us.
11:54And they've got to do as much travelling up and down the continent as we do.
11:58Yeah, yeah.
11:58They're just really good.
11:59Like they don't get sort of the credibility they deserve.
12:01Oh, absolutely.
12:02But what's mad in Brazil as well, they, not just like the National FA Cup, they also
12:06have like regional cups as well.
12:08They have like a competition.
12:09Yeah, they take a break in the season, don't they, to go and do like a full knockout tournament
12:12where they suspend the league and then they come back to it.
12:14Yeah.
12:15So who can be like the best team in Rio?
12:17Who can be the best team in Sao Paulo?
12:20Like it's...
12:20That's, that's, that, I mean, we've got, we haven't got enough room in the calendar.
12:23I would be in favour of abandoning the League Cup in favour for pure petty rivalry-driven mini
12:29tournaments instead.
12:29You can reduce the number of games.
12:32Yeah.
12:32Because obviously, well, you've got to win six, seven games to get to the League Cup final.
12:34So instead of two teams having seven games, everybody could just have three or four.
12:39Yeah.
12:39Which I think would be good.
12:39But it's just purely like regional, genuine, just hate-filled.
12:43That would be class.
12:44You really want to win that.
12:45And it gives, it gives every team a little trophy they can win every year, I would argue.
12:49Yeah.
12:49You know, you could bring in like the championship teams as well.
12:51So, you know, you could do like...
12:52Oh, you'd have it multi-divit.
12:52Yeah, you'd actually have it multi-divit.
12:53Yeah.
12:53And you could do like a lot, you could do Millwall-West Ham every year, which would be a good
12:57laugh.
12:57And if Sunderland had just come up, but, you know, he could have done Sunderland, Newcastle for the last few
13:02years as well.
13:02Yeah, he could have done, yeah, yeah.
13:03But a little mini, so like, you know, Carlisle, Darlington, Newcastle, Middlesbrough, Sunderland.
13:07As a little round-robin thing, somebody's going to get that trophy every year.
13:12Everybody pretends regional top dogs is a thing.
13:14Anyway, it's the most like substantial trophy that does not exist is your local rivalry trophy.
13:21Yeah, no, you're right, yeah.
13:22Why don't, yeah.
13:23I mean, we're getting off topic here, but I think English football could take a page out of Brazilian football
13:27there.
13:27Yeah, to zone, make it happen.
13:30Yeah, we haven't got enough football at the minute.
13:32I can't remember what we're talking about there.
13:33Talking about...
13:34Oh, the quality standard that all the teams are bringing, yeah.
13:36So the Brazilian teams are excellent.
13:38I thought Al-Halal really, I thought that was, because the Saudi league's obviously treated as like,
13:43not necessarily as a joke because of the money involved.
13:46Like, teams are constantly scared of losing their players to it.
13:48But sort of like, the standard's not seen as like, worth your time or worth watching.
13:52And they were like, they were really, really, they should have beat Madrid, I think,
13:57when they got the point off from there.
13:58And they were more than worth beating Manchester City.
14:00Well, we did that Real Madrid game.
14:01And, you know, Xabi Alonso's side were quite slow to start in all of the group stage games.
14:07And they got lucky to go 1-0 up.
14:09And Garcieri had a brilliant tournament.
14:10He was class for them.
14:11But Al-Halal was so in control.
14:13And they should have got more than one goal in that game.
14:16And, you know, they were lucky that it was, you know, only one in the end, Real Madrid.
14:21But yeah, the players they have, like, they're still top, top draw,
14:24even though they're not playing, you know, in the Premier League or La Liga or Bundesliga or whatever.
14:28They're still absolutely brilliant.
14:29What was that game like to cover?
14:30Because, obviously, like, again, even the sort of side league's a bit of an unknown in terms of its support.
14:35Like, nobody really knows.
14:36Nobody's got an opinion on how well Al-Etifak travelled, do they?
14:39They haven't got the ranking of the best away supports in the Saudi league.
14:43So, like, having that with Madrid, who, like you say, are just, they're going to be supported and followed everywhere.
14:48And this is the new football with the new money that's trying to sort of get onto a level.
14:53How did that sort of, like, that must have been a weird stage of being in.
14:55Yeah, it was strange because Al-Hilal were very well supported in that game in Miami and we couldn't quite
15:02wrap our head around it.
15:03So, when we went to New York, Taxi Driver picked us up and he was from, like, Egyptian heritage and
15:09he went to see Esperance.
15:12Was it Esperance?
15:13No, who's the Egyptian side?
15:14Who are in it?
15:16I can't remember.
15:16Al-Ali.
15:17Al-Ali, who were in it.
15:18He went to see Al-Ali because of his Egyptian heritage.
15:22So, you know, like, Egypt were in the World Cup.
15:24He would go see Egypt.
15:25But there's an Egyptian team playing over in the States.
15:28So, why don't we go see them play into Miami?
15:30So, he went to that as an Egyptian just to support the Egyptian club.
15:34So, I think that was a similar thing for the Saudi community to go see a Saudi team.
15:37Again, that's something that you'd never get with the English report, would you?
15:40Like, oh, yeah.
15:41Historically, my family were all from Norwich.
15:43But I hear that Manchester City are playing.
15:45So, I'm really feeling sort of the Northwest in my blood.
15:49Absolutely not.
15:50But I think that must have been a recurring theme because, you know, even in Saudi Arabia,
15:54I don't think Al-Halal get massive turnout of support.
15:58So, yeah, I guess it must have been the local.
16:00It's got to be one of those things that's like, you can sort of see what the appeal is for
16:04these teams.
16:04I mean, because it's just been literally regarded as like an inconvenience for every European team who doesn't win it.
16:10It's sort of like, it's a massive cash influx.
16:12It's good prestige.
16:14You get that nice little shiny gold badge.
16:15Like, it's a great tournament to win, but I think it was seen for European teams as like a very
16:20annoying tournament to be in if you don't then win it.
16:23But you sort of look at all these other sides, the support they bring.
16:26Like, I think you're probably going to find a lot more people in this country who watch the Brazilian League
16:30if it's on.
16:31Like, oh, I remember those teams and the stand-up's really good.
16:33And obviously, the sort of chance to gain more sort of global recognition to play these teams, you'd never otherwise
16:40get an excuse to play.
16:41In what is a competitive game, certainly labelled as and has to be taken seriously, it's not just like a
16:47throwaway kickabout where you're going to finish the game playing against the youth team, even if some big stars end
16:52up starting.
16:54That's massive for Al-Halal.
16:55It's massive for Wydar.
16:57It's massive for Monterey.
16:58Like, it's like such a huge opportunity for a lot of these teams.
17:01Oh, massively.
17:02Like, you know, just going back to the South American teams as well.
17:04Like, they really, really wanted to beat all the European sides.
17:09Like, you know, it feels a bit old school for it to be like a Europe-South America rivalry when
17:15it comes to international tournaments.
17:16Like, you know, it feels very like 90s, even like 80s to an extent.
17:19But on club level, like, it meant so much for them to beat a team from the superior league.
17:27And, you know, they added so much to it.
17:29Just to go back to the vibes, which is what we were meant to be talking about.
17:33You covered a lot of different games.
17:36Yes.
17:36You did some day games and some evening games.
17:39Yes.
17:39Watching those here, the difference between the application of teams, the energy level, even the tactics they were using, I
17:46found, like, absolutely staggering.
17:49Like, you would watch the afternoon games and you could visibly see teams, like, holding themselves back to sort of
17:55like five, six out of ten energy levels.
17:57Yeah.
17:57And then in the evening games, pressing a lot higher, recovering a lot quicker.
18:01Was that, like, when you're watching them and commentating on them, is that glaringly noticeable?
18:06And commentating question, is that the kind of thing you'd bring up?
18:10Like, oh, these teams don't look like they're trying that hard.
18:12Or is that something you would just not mention?
18:15I don't think I'd say they're not trying hard.
18:18Maybe, like, my co-commentator.
18:20I was with Michael Brown for the whole tournament.
18:23He didn't ever sit down.
18:25Actually, I've got you an interview.
18:26You quite often post those little clips of you doing the goals.
18:29Yeah.
18:29He's never sitting down.
18:30Oh, yeah.
18:31Why is that?
18:31I think you just get, like, a different kind of...
18:33Like, if we were stood up doing this podcast, we'd have, like, a lot more energy and a lot more
18:36enthusiasm.
18:37Although we don't.
18:37Nobody stands up doing a podcast, do they?
18:40That's true, actually.
18:40Maybe I'll crack that.
18:41Pat McAfee does, but I don't know if I can match that energy level if that means anything to you.
18:45Anyway, I digress.
18:47Michael Brown.
18:47Yeah, so he would stand up just to have, like, a little bit more energy.
18:51Like, if it was a flat game and, you know, Tossens passing it to Sanchez.
18:55Sanchez is passing it to Colwell.
18:56Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.
18:57Do you think that's the footballer in him?
18:59I don't think so.
18:59Because a lot of, like, managers and coaches and stuff don't like sitting down.
19:03And the subs have to.
19:04Subs are forced to sit down.
19:06They can't stand up.
19:06But do you think that's, like, I'd much rather stand to watch a game of football and be
19:10animated.
19:11Do you think that's the footballer in him?
19:12Maybe.
19:12You know, they kick every ball, don't they?
19:14The coach when they're on the side.
19:16I guess it's the same when you're in the press box a little bit.
19:19But, like, when, you know, when the goals would go in, he'd, like, you know, if it was
19:22a good goal, he'd do, like, a little fist bump or something like that.
19:25You got that account for you.
19:26Go on.
19:26And, yeah, I got him doing, like, the finger snap thing as well.
19:30And it's like, he's clearly loving it.
19:32But, yeah, you could feel the difference.
19:35I think the temperature was a massive influence on that.
19:39You know, there's a shot of Dortmund, I think it was, their substitutes got sent into the
19:43changing rooms.
19:43That was a couple of games, that, didn't it?
19:44Keep cool, yeah.
19:45And then Harry Kane, like, did the ice bucket challenge, just threw his head into a box
19:51full of ice and water to keep himself cool.
19:54But we were lucky because we were in air-conditioned booths.
19:58And the Atlanta stadium is air-conditioned with a roof on.
20:00So I think in that stadium it was a little bit more lively.
20:03Because we did the PSG buying game in Atlanta, which was, you know, my favourite game of the
20:10tournament.
20:10You know, two red cards, two goals.
20:13You know, one of the goals of the tournament where Hakimi dribbled past three Bayern players
20:16and then Dembele slammed it in.
20:18That was a 12 o'clock in the afternoon kick-off.
20:21If it was in Philadelphia or Pasadena, like, it would have been intensely hot and they
20:27wouldn't have been able to play at that kind of pace or speed.
20:30I think it's really, because it's raised a lot of questions about the World Cup next
20:33year.
20:33Because there was already a lot of criticism of the pitchers, which I think, did Rhys James
20:36come out in the interview after they won it and been like, yeah, my knees are absolutely
20:40killing it.
20:40I, Rhys James, should not be playing on these pitches.
20:44But sort of the environmental element of it, you kept seeing those massive fans on the
20:48touchline.
20:48Yeah.
20:49I couldn't tell if they were pointed at the benches or pointed at the pitch.
20:53Because if they're pointed at the pitch, that's like, not to be crude, but that's the proverbial
20:57hot dog down a hallway, isn't it?
20:58Like, how much of that cold air is reaching 10 yards into that field?
21:02Might get the linesman.
21:03Yeah.
21:04Like, it's got nothing.
21:05I mean, it's really weird because obviously everyone is aware of what it is like to play
21:09football in the US at this time of year because MLS are running right now and they do not
21:14do afternoon games.
21:15We had the 94 World Cup, which was like a lot of the football.
21:19It wasn't ruined, but like there is the big takeaway from that for the last 20, 30, Christ,
21:25how old are we now, 30 years, has been, it was too hot to play.
21:28Look at all the Irish players who got sunburned.
21:30Look at Jack Charlton's silly hat and all of this.
21:32And even at the World Cup, a lot of the games they're having are going to be in more environmentally
21:38manageable stadiums.
21:40Like, there's not going to be that many afternoon games in big open air places because they're
21:44aware this is such a problem.
21:46And yet, they still had loads of these games in this tournament taking place at midday in
21:53roofless stadiums with no sort of ability to manage to regulate the temperature or regulate
21:57the players.
21:58And I just, for the life of me, can't work out why that is.
22:03Like, you knew it was a problem in the past.
22:05You're aware it's a problem in the future.
22:06You know it's a problem now.
22:07And everyone was like, I'll be fine.
22:09Yeah.
22:09Well, I kind of had the feeling that this tournament wasn't going to happen for quite
22:13a while.
22:14Really?
22:14Yeah.
22:15And then, well, there was no broadcaster coming in until DAZN came in, right?
22:19So, if they didn't have the funding for a broadcaster, I just thought, you know, they
22:22might just go, eh, I'm not going to make any money from it.
22:25And, you know.
22:25Let's do it as an e-sport.
22:27Yeah, why not?
22:28You know, just do it all on a LAN party.
22:30Save each other all the bother.
22:32But, yeah, the temperature stuff was the most concerning thing.
22:37Well, not even just the temperature, the weather as well.
22:38You know, those games postponed for hours on end because of electrical storms.
22:42Yeah, the electrical storms are cool as fuck, though.
22:44That was really cool.
22:45Well, we were in Miami doing the Real Madrid-Juve game and pre-match it absolutely hammered down
22:51and, like, the sky was dark.
22:54Can I swear?
22:55Anyway, it was dark.
22:56Yes.
22:56It was dark.
22:58I've just said the F word.
23:00Yeah.
23:01It was really, really stormy and grim and we thought it was going to get called off because
23:05I think it was Chelsea-Palmiras.
23:06No, Chelsea-Benfica got to the 85th minute and then was postponed for, like, three hours
23:11or whatever it was.
23:12Do you know, I'm actually bang up for that happening in the World Cup because,
23:15can you imagine, let's say it's in England, it's quarter-final England and they're playing
23:19somebody good.
23:20England's Argentina, something mad like that.
23:22It's 85th minute.
23:23It's 1-1, right?
23:24Lightning storm happens overhead, right?
23:26You're in the pub.
23:28That game's called off for two hours.
23:29You have, then, the weirdest two hours.
23:33Two hours of supporting a football team unlike any other two hours you'll ever get in your
23:37life where you have to somehow tread water.
23:40You have to circle the airport, right, mentally, right, in the pub for that, for the length
23:46of a game of football while knowing that at the end of this, there's 10 minutes of football
23:50left.
23:51Yeah.
23:52Before potentially another half hour of penalty share.
23:55Can you imagine the feeling you will, I mean, I'm probably making it sound absolutely
23:59excruciating.
24:00Yeah.
24:00Do you not think that would be a really memorable experience?
24:03It would be, but also, there would also be fellas just asleep in their chair like that
24:07who've, you know, just had a few too many and kind of dozed off in the corner.
24:11Yeah, but I've got no time for these lightweights.
24:14Like, get them out of the beer garden.
24:16You're there with a tray of tequilas.
24:17Yeah.
24:18Yeah, keep on going.
24:18We need to lock in here.
24:20We've got a big 10 minutes coming up.
24:21Keep going.
24:22Yeah.
24:22But yeah, I mean, this was a massive, they kept calling it the trial for the World Cup,
24:28this tournament.
24:29Right, right, right.
24:29And I feel like we've learned a lot, but in these lessons that we've learned, we could
24:33kind of lose the excitement, if you want to call it that, of these delays.
24:37Look, I like, I was quite, I obviously didn't want to move the World Cup to winter so it
24:42could be held in Qatar.
24:43I was very annoyed about that.
24:44But it was a really unique experience following a World Cup in the middle of a Premier League
24:49season.
24:49It was quite chaotic.
24:51A lot of it didn't work.
24:52Yeah.
24:52It was like, the football I thought was brilliant because it was in the middle of the season
24:56and these players weren't knackered.
24:57All of a sudden they were coming into it full throttle.
24:59I thought the games were amazing.
25:01But by and large, it was a chaotic World Cup and I was really there for that.
25:05Yeah.
25:06And I'm probably going to change my tune in a year's time where I've got to start thinking
25:09about coverage for it and it actually becomes part of work as opposed to just something
25:13in the future.
25:15But I'm really up for a really chaotic World Cup.
25:18Well, we've got Saudi Arabia in a few years.
25:19Yeah, that's going to be in the winter as well, isn't it?
25:21They're going to move that, I bet.
25:22I just like unique experiences.
25:25And I've done a straightforward, well-organised World Cup.
25:28I've experienced that.
25:29England always tend to get beaten in them.
25:30But just throw a little bit of chaos in there.
25:34I think that could be awful.
25:35You said it kind of felt like a trial.
25:38Yes.
25:38Now, let's pretend you are the jury in this trial.
25:42What is your verdict of next year's World Cup based on the evidence that you've been
25:47presented?
25:48Well, Infantino's already came out and said we're going to play the World Cup in air-conditioned
25:54stadiums with openable, closable roofs.
25:58People say a lot of stuff, though.
25:59Yeah, that's true.
26:00That's very true.
26:02So we'll see if that happens.
26:04But then I don't know if they've got the facilities for that in Mexico and Canada.
26:08I've got no idea.
26:09Do you need air-conditioning in Canada?
26:10I've only been once.
26:12Yeah, you never hear about hot Canadian summers.
26:14No.
26:15But you'll definitely need it in Mexico City, I imagine.
26:17I didn't like the 10-minute introductions of players at the beginning.
26:20That's got to go.
26:21That's got to go.
26:22It's a team sport, man.
26:24Yeah.
26:24It went on a little bit.
26:27It was kind of like a bit of a novelty to begin with.
26:29But then when you're there doing Chelsea in the semi-final, you're like, yeah.
26:33Here's Rhys James again.
26:35Here's Cole Palmer again.
26:36You just don't have to do that.
26:37The thing is, that could have worked if the players, as we know, were not trained from
26:42six years old to be soulless, like emotionless automatons.
26:47Yeah.
26:47Whenever you're at work or there's a camera on you or you're in these public settings,
26:51nothing.
26:52Nothing ever.
26:52Never, ever emote or react to anything.
26:54If it was normal people, if it was like your Sunday League XI team, you'd have people
26:59coming out with their thumbs sticking out the top of their trousers, people coming
27:02out with the wrong T-shirts on.
27:04People would be doing all kinds of mad stuff that would make that worth watching.
27:07Or, you know, what would make it even better, WWE-style entrances.
27:10Right.
27:10So I'm glad you've said this.
27:11I'm glad you've said this.
27:12Not for individuals.
27:13This is a team sport, right?
27:15Right, okay.
27:15You've been to the basketball?
27:17No, but I've seen it.
27:18Right.
27:18So they do kind of do these individual walkouts, but it's so quick.
27:22It's basically as a team.
27:23Right.
27:23It's basically just like, come to the Chicago Bulls, I presume they're still a basketball
27:27team.
27:27And they all kind of run out.
27:28And as they're all running out, they just read the names out as they're up.
27:30It's all as one, right?
27:32Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:32And they've got their individual entrance for the team.
27:34I think football teams, I hate this walkout.
27:37I hate the mascots.
27:38I don't want to see 22 six-year-olds who are just there mugging for camera time.
27:44I hate that.
27:45I hate the little walk-alongs in the handshake.
27:47I hate the ceremony of football at the minute, right?
27:48Okay.
27:49One team at a time, right?
27:50Away team first.
27:52Have them booed to fuck to whatever their song is at their home ground.
27:56Have them coming out to Zed Cars.
27:57Oh, wow.
27:58That could be interesting.
27:59You'll never walk alone at Old Trafford's.
28:00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:01They get to come out to that, right?
28:02Fucking get the crap out of it.
28:03Boo!
28:04And then the home team comes out to their music, right?
28:08Straighten their faces, right?
28:10You want them all in the line.
28:11And they all come out and basically square up.
28:13Then you do a hat.
28:14If you really have to do a handshake, you can do a handshake, right?
28:17Referees, they're already out there.
28:18They don't get an entrance.
28:19They're just there, right?
28:21Then get on with it.
28:22And I think that improves football.
28:23That's a great shout because they actually do that at Stockport County because their tunnel
28:29is so narrow.
28:30Only one team can come out at a time.
28:31So the away team comes out first.
28:33And the away team get booed.
28:34Get booed.
28:35And then the home team come out and do well.
28:36And Stockport, they've done all right recently.
28:38Well, there we go.
28:39National League, League 2, League 1.
28:41Almost got promoted to the championship last season.
28:43And we think it's all down to this.
28:44It could be.
28:44Because I think for atmosphere, can you imagine, like, you're giving the example already there.
28:48Imagine it's Man United-Liverpool at Old Trafford, right?
28:51And You Never Walk Alone starts playing as the Liverpool players walk out.
28:55That is pure W.
28:57Like, I'm someone who covered a lot of wrestling, right?
28:59I've been to a lot of wrestling shows.
29:01People think they like wrestling.
29:03They don't.
29:04They like wrestlers' entrances, right?
29:06It gets the biggest cheers.
29:07It's the bit you're most excited for.
29:09When the music hits and the person walks out, it never gets as good as that again.
29:12That's why they play the music as soon as they win.
29:14It never gets as good as that again.
29:16Imagine Liverpool walking out until you never walk alone.
29:1880,000 people booing the fuck out of them.
29:22It's going to be interesting to see what happens when Iran turn up at the World Cup next year.
29:26Right.
29:27Well, imagine Iran come out of the Iranian national anthem at the MetLife or something like that.
29:33That's pure theatre.
29:34That would be mental.
29:35Gianni, we know you're watching.
29:36We know you're watching, mate.
29:38It's not too late to change that.
29:40I did have a really interesting football point that I was going to round off this section with.
29:43But now we've got on to the World Cup.
29:46You should have WWE entrances.
29:48I'll give you it anyway because it's a good start.
29:49Okay.
29:50The heat, right?
29:52This is such a killdown on the vibe, right?
29:54But the heat.
29:55There was in the entire knockout of this tournament, right?
29:59How many teams do you think won having conceded first across the entire knockout?
30:07The knockouts.
30:08Oh, God.
30:10I would say the average percentage in the Premier League of getting a result when you go behind is like
30:14just over a third, like maybe 32, 33%.
30:18Yeah.
30:19It's nowhere near that.
30:20It's nowhere near that.
30:21Can I count it on one hand?
30:22It's nowhere near that.
30:23You can count it on one hand.
30:24Oh, okay.
30:24There's other appendages on your body you counted on.
30:27Was there one?
30:28One.
30:29Oh, my God.
30:29Al-Halal Man City.
30:31Oh, my God.
30:31It was the only team who conceded first and then got through.
30:34And there was a real sort of – you saw it in the PSG-Real Madrid game and then again
30:38the Chelsea-PSG game.
30:39Yeah.
30:40If you get ahead, if you start better and you get a goal, it was just almost impossible to get
30:46for the other team to then wrestle control of that match back, to then start outfighting you.
30:52Like PSG-Real Madrid was done at halftime.
30:54Yeah.
30:54Was it 4-0 halftime or 3-0 halftime?
30:563-0 halftime.
30:563-0 halftime then they scored last.
30:57Chelsea-PSG, 3-0 halftime.
30:59Once you got ahead to start, once you applied the energy there in that heat, it was simply impossible for
31:04teams to sort of drag it back.
31:06Especially when the level's so high and, you know, you can just pass it around the midfield.
31:10Pull players out of – because, I mean, most of the tactics now is trying to drag players out of
31:13positions and exhaust the opposition.
31:15Well, it used to be the expression – I used to get taught this when I was learning to play
31:18football.
31:19It's like, oh, you have to work so much harder when you don't have the ball.
31:22And now I think it's – the levels are actually getting pretty equal because a lot of teams, their out
31:26-of-possession structure is, yeah, will press high in certain parts of the pitch.
31:29But it's just simply blocking off space in other areas where it forces the team with the ball to do
31:34a lot more running than they used to rather than just like, oh, give it to the winger.
31:38He's fast.
31:38Yeah.
31:38He eats his ready, Breck.
31:40He'll go up and down the wing and then sort of just cross it.
31:42Whereas now it's like, depending on what half of the pitch you're in, either one – either who's got the
31:48ball does more running or who doesn't have the ball does more running.
31:50So that was my interesting fact.
31:52I looked that up.
31:52I was convinced I was going to find that all the way through the tournament.
31:55So before you turned up, I was like going through every single – Henry's a lot of camera there.
31:59He's like, look, you saw me doing this.
32:00I went through every single group game.
32:02And there was – it was still very few.
32:05Right.
32:05But there was more than like none, which I was hoping there would be.
32:07Yeah.
32:07I think there was like three games in all the group matches.
32:10Yeah.
32:11Where a team that went behind got any sort of result.
32:14Yeah.
32:15Which is –
32:15It was strange as well how like the games were wrapped up, generally speaking, in 90 minutes as well.
32:19There was no penalty shootouts.
32:20Well, there was extra time in the group stages once.
32:23Yeah.
32:23That was, again, Man City, Al-Halal.
32:25Not one single, as you say, penalty shootout in the whole tournament.
32:28It's so weird, isn't it?
32:29Like bizarre.
32:30Nobody could be bothered, man.
32:31That was it.
32:32Like honestly, if you are 1-0 down in that round of 16 and it is 35 degrees and you're
32:39like,
32:39well, we could try really hard to drag this out for another hour or we could go home.
32:44Yeah.
32:45Guys, guys, we could go home.
32:46And if you're Juventus and you've made it to the round of 16, you've probably made about 50 million euros
32:51already by that point as well.
32:52Obviously, we're not implying that a lot of the major teams were like, ah, that's enough.
32:56We've lined up pockets efficiently.
32:58We're going to jack it in.
32:59But I think certainly the motivation from the clubs to scratch and claw and force these players to get three
33:05or four extra games for the sake of a couple million more quid.
33:08I certainly think there will have been motivating factors there that sort of were like, once you got out of
33:14the groups, lads, whatever happens.
33:16You know what I mean?
33:17We've not disgraced ourselves.
33:18We've not embarrassed ourselves.
33:19Yeah.
33:20Go out there, play your football, look after your bodies first and foremost.
33:23If you're feeling tight, if you've got any strains, you know, let's not risk, you know what I mean, like
33:28long-term injuries here.
33:30I think the clubs would have managed themselves a lot better, would have been satisfied with getting to the stages
33:35they got.
33:36I put it this way, there was certainly nobody from the quarterfinals onwards playing with an injury or being asked
33:42to go out there and, you know, can we manage you through this game?
33:45I think it was certainly a case of clubs where managing themselves smartly, having been pleased with their overall contribution.
33:54Yeah.
33:54Except Chelsea, who I felt were obsessed with winning this from the start, by the way.
33:56They signed a player for, was it 50 million, was he, João Pedro?
34:01Pedro, yeah.
34:01Something like that, for the semi-final.
34:03They pulled that poor lad off a beach.
34:05Probably just been watching a couple of these games, like any chance you can go get us enough goals and
34:10enough sort of contributions to get us through this tournament.
34:13And it remains to be seen whether or not João Pedro is this good a fit for Chelsea once a
34:17Premier League season starts.
34:19I think the signs are very positive.
34:21He looked very good.
34:21He looked unbelievable in those last couple of games.
34:26The next bit I've got is just like, nice questions for Rich, it says, but we've sort of answered them
34:30all, sort of inadvertently after all this.
34:32Oh, okay.
34:32So what was the best match you covered, you said?
34:35Best match I covered was definitely PSGV by me.
34:38Is that from a football fan's perspective or a football commentator's perspective?
34:41And if so, are the two different answers to the question?
34:44Actually, I've got to call it, is a commentary game, like, is it, do you have more fun at work
34:50if the game is good?
34:51Or does it not really sort of like matter that much?
34:54Would you prefer it was less exciting because there's less going on?
34:57No, I mean, you do a lot of prep for your games, right?
35:00We'll get to the prep.
35:01I've got a question about the prep.
35:02I'm fascinated about the prep.
35:03The sound.
35:04But, you know, I do a lot of EFL games.
35:08I do a lot of League 1 and League 2.
35:09And you get quite a lot of, let's call it negative football in League 2.
35:14Not poor quality, just negative football.
35:17No football is bad football.
35:18It's not, you know, PSG Bayern Munich is another world.
35:22But when you're doing an entertaining game as a commentator, it's just as entertaining as a fan.
35:28You want to do those games.
35:29It just makes it so much easier.
35:30I did Leeds beating Cardiff 7-0 earlier on in the season.
35:35And it was like the 93rd minute.
35:38And the Leeds fans were chanting like, we want seven, we want seven.
35:41And the Leeds players were like, getting the ball off the ball boys quick because they can't take them throw
35:45-ins.
35:45Trying to find that seventh goal as fast as they could.
35:48And that was so entertaining.
35:49A lot of that's got a bonus, aren't they?
35:51Yeah, obviously.
35:54And, yeah, the PSG Bayern Munich game, like, there was a great atmosphere in there as well.
35:58And, you know, Bayern like to play the same kind of football that PSG do.
36:01And they pretty much kind of match them.
36:03You couldn't say Bayern like to play the same kind of football as Leeds United do.
36:06Yeah, they do, you know.
36:08Musiala, Willy Nonto, same sort of player.
36:10Absolutely.
36:11But, yeah, it just makes it so much more entertaining as a commentator when you've got an entertaining football match.
36:17You don't want to just talk over a nil-nil where, you know, Crystal Palace and Fulham haven't been able
36:23to break down the doors.
36:24Was the prep hard? Because, like, I've seen your notes.
36:29Oh, yeah.
36:30You've posted those notes.
36:32Like, as a man who loves to sit down with an A4-line piece of paper and just do something.
36:36As a man who was playing football manager in his head decades before the game ever came out,
36:41just by writing it down on a piece of paper and doing the tactics with the players I wanted to
36:45buy.
36:46I've got a proverbial big stinking lob on for that level of prep, right?
36:52But you do it over here for the EFL.
36:53Well, chances are, like, if I, let's say, by some fluke of circumstance, it was like,
36:58oh, Adam, Rich Wolfenden's been struck by some terrible happenstance.
37:02Could you fill in for the Leeds-Sheffield United game?
37:04I know three Leeds fans.
37:06I'm sure I could find a Sheffield United fan.
37:08I could gauge, I could ask a couple of questions.
37:10They're probably dead easy to research because, I mean, Newcastle has played them both.
37:14I've seen them play football.
37:15They're on Sky all the time.
37:16But you go in and it's like, right, here are two teams from the other side of the world
37:20whose domestic league is not really broadcast in the country you live.
37:24Yes.
37:25You've never seen in club competition before unless you've literally gone out searching for it.
37:30They've got two players who used to play in the Premier League but maybe went to Germany or something in
37:35between.
37:36Almost certainly you were unfamiliar with the history of the club, the culture of the club, the manager,
37:40the majority of the players, how they play football and the fan base.
37:43Yeah.
37:44How hard is that research?
37:46Yeah, you've kind of just summed up all my stresses in one kind of point there.
37:50Yeah, you know what?
37:52The EFL's hard to study at times but there's often like a local paper or definitely like a club fan
38:00podcast or something like that.
38:01The hardest ones are when you get thrown into a conference league fixture.
38:04I did Zorya Lahansk against Brida Blick of Iceland last season.
38:09You've done so well to remember how you say both those names.
38:12Because it's like scarred into my mind, these teams, because I knew nothing about those teams.
38:18I knew about Lahansk from reading about the Ukraine war.
38:22Right.
38:22Brida Blick.
38:23Of course.
38:23You knew nothing about it.
38:26So there you're trying to find articles but the articles are all written in Ukrainian or in Icelandish, Icelandic.
38:34Do you speak either of those languages?
38:36Just to check.
38:37A little bit.
38:38Dropped it in secondary school.
38:39My Icelandic's so rusty.
38:41Yeah, tell me about it.
38:42But that's the hardest part is trying to, you can, on that level, you can go onto their club website
38:50and just get their name, their number, their strong foot.
38:54And that's about it.
38:57But if you're doing like an EFL game, you can find pretty much anything to say about them, if you
39:01will.
39:01Because they would have come through Liverpool Academy, Chelsea Academy.
39:05Plenty written about them in the language you speak.
39:07Yes.
39:07And part of the website you frequent.
39:09Yeah, absolutely.
39:10And then you don't know whether this Icelandic news source is a good news source to use.
39:16And that's when you find out, you know, that you're kind of in the deep end.
39:20But if you do those games, you can do any.
39:21But if I did four hours research on Crew versus Doncaster Rovers and I gave you my notes and said,
39:29right, Adam, you're going to commentate on Crew versus Doncaster Rovers.
39:32I think you could do it.
39:33They're not my notes.
39:34I think you could do it, though.
39:35They're not mine.
39:35They wouldn't have my terrible gags in them.
39:38Oh, yeah.
39:39Well, you know.
39:39I will say they are good notes.
39:41We'll try and flash a picture up on screen right now.
39:43Okay.
39:44Actually, if our heads aren't interfering with this screen, I may see if we can – Henry's looking terrified here.
39:49I may see if we can just put something to make it look like it was there all along, like
39:53it was well-produced and organized.
39:55Unless our heads are leaning over at any point in case we want.
39:57Those are Richard's notes.
39:59This may look terrible, but those are Richard's notes.
40:02Look at the colors.
40:03But, again, so what was the process for this tournament?
40:07Obviously, like these Icelandic papers and these Ukrainian papers, hard to come by, but, like, let's – I mean, what
40:12was the first Brazilian team you did?
40:14First Brazilian team I did was Flamengo when they played Chelsea.
40:20It wasn't too bad.
40:25Luckily, the Athletic covered it quite heavily, and, you know, they're one of the best at doing their football research,
40:30so they just kind of stole their research a little bit, majority of it.
40:35But, you know, they're all there because they've gone to – they won the Copa Libertadores a few years ago,
40:42so there's so much –
40:43Good knowledge.
40:43Yeah, so there's so much, like, information on them from winning that.
40:48They're currently top of the Brazilian League as well, so there's a lot of information on them.
40:52Yeah, and, you know, they've signed Jorginho, so you can just lean on your Jorginho facts and stats and talk
40:57about that.
40:59They had a couple of other players.
41:00They had Escaeta, I think his name was, Uruguay International, and he was, like, the top scorer in Brazil.
41:05So you can just lean on to those things rather than going into the nitty-gritty of this 19-year
41:11-old who's played once in his professional career.
41:13I've got a very, very niche – I may be losing a part of the audience for this because this
41:16is a question I'm asking purely for my own curiosity as someone who was in an adjacent field of work
41:20to you, right?
41:21Yeah.
41:21I will do videos on players from European football who I have seen play and watch their matches, and I
41:28will get halfway through that video, and I will say their name, and I will go, I'm not even sure
41:33if that's how you say that.
41:34I will have heard this name in commentary.
41:36I'll have said it five or six times in the video already.
41:38The best one, Ryan Gravenberch.
41:39When Liverpool signed him, I did a video about him, and I said all the way through the video, Ryan
41:43Gravenberch, Ryan Gravenberch, and I got halfway through, and I was like, is it Gravenberch?
41:47Is it not Gravenbach?
41:49Gravenberch?
41:50Gravenberch.
41:50And for the life of me, I couldn't do it.
41:52And there's a clip.
41:52I saved the clip.
41:53It's on my laptop somewhere.
41:54I spent 10 minutes, right, in the middle of this recording trying to find anybody saying this name out loud
42:01to him, either in a commentary setting, every game he was in because he plays deep.
42:05He's not in the highlights.
42:06The interviews with him, they're in German, and they don't actually – they just call him Ryan.
42:09And I had this absolute crisis of confidence to the point where I stopped recording, and I tweeted, is anybody
42:15here a native Dutch speaker?
42:16Yeah.
42:16Can you tell me how to pronounce this?
42:18And it turned out I had it right all along.
42:19Now, my question to you.
42:20Yes.
42:21You probably have that exact same experience, but live.
42:24Yes.
42:25Do you ever – how confident are you on the pronunciations of names of players you don't know going into
42:30that?
42:31And what would you do if in the middle of the broadcast you were like, oh, I'm not sure I'm
42:35saying that, right?
42:36Yeah.
42:36There's some where you're like, well, you know, if you're doing your due diligence, you would watch a full match,
42:44I guess, maybe, of this other team.
42:46So, you can hear another commentator say it.
42:49But we got sent – when we were out for the Club World Cup, we got sent audio files.
42:54Oh, they do that and they get them to say it, don't they?
42:56Well, no.
42:57This was the media officer of – I think it was PSG did it, or like the reporter for PSG
43:01anyway.
43:02And he said all the players' names in – if I know, it wasn't PSG, it was Esperance.
43:08Right.
43:08So, I was like, right, Tunisian players.
43:10This could be something that trips me up here.
43:11Can we get some pronunciations, please?
43:14And the guy sent them over and he had them in – how to say them in Arabic, how to
43:19say them in French, and how to say them in English and Spanish as well.
43:23So –
43:24What a guy.
43:24Yeah, and oh, absolute legend.
43:26But I just wanted them like – I wanted to know how to say them.
43:29And just – I didn't need to – whether it be English, Spanish, Arabic or whatever, I never considered that.
43:34I just wanted to know how to say their name.
43:36But then I would have felt a bit silly doing an Arabic accent.
43:40And probably quite offensive as well to do it repeatedly.
43:42There are commentators who will do that.
43:44They will say that absolutely as legitimately as possible.
43:46Oh, 100%.
43:46But, you know, you watch Bundesliga football and the English commentators will say the German names in a very German
43:51way.
43:54But –
43:55Goretzka.
43:55Yeah, Goretzka.
43:57Goretzka.
43:57Exactly.
43:59So, yeah, we get sent over a voice file of how we should say them.
44:03And we do them the anglicized way, if you will.
44:07So what you've done there is you've answered the question very professionally in terms of why you're good at it.
44:12What I was actually asking is what happens if halfway through the thing you think I'm not –
44:16because you can't just sit there in the middle of the game and replay that to remind yourself.
44:20Yes.
44:20And you're not allowed to just put the names on a soundboard.
44:22So every time you need to say it, you press the little button.
44:24And what do you do as a human being, if you think halfway through the game, I've said this wrong.
44:31I've had it worse than that.
44:32I've been corrected by my co-commentator.
44:36It's a long time ago.
44:38And are you familiar with Danny Bart?
44:41He plays for Blackburn Rovers, I think it is at the moment.
44:44He used to play for Watford in the Premier League.
44:45It's spelled B-A-T-T-H.
44:47Yeah.
44:48Englishman.
44:49I was like, all right, it's Danny Bath.
44:50He's Danny Bath.
44:51It's called Danny Bath, Danny Bath.
44:53I was with Chris Iwilumo.
44:54And he used to play with them at Watford, I think it was.
44:56And he held down the buzzer and went, Rich, it's pronounced Bart.
45:01He's got like...
45:02Oh, you didn't say it live on air?
45:04No, no, no, no.
45:04That was good.
45:05That would have been killer.
45:06But yeah, I think he's got Indian heritage and it's pronounced Bart.
45:12Not Bath.
45:12Not Bath, yeah.
45:13It's quite different.
45:14So in the middle of the commentary.
45:15Who were you playing for at the time?
45:18Blackburn Rovers.
45:18So the real villain of the piece is the Blackburn Rovers media officer who did not compile a comprehensive list
45:23of player pronunciations.
45:24Exactly that.
45:25Exactly that.
45:25Mr. Blackburn Rovers media officer.
45:27But yeah, so mid-commentary, I shifted from Bath to Bart, which was quite embarrassing.
45:33Right.
45:34This is the question I want to ask you the most about all this, right?
45:37Oh, yeah.
45:37Go on.
45:38Right, so this can be in a footballing sense or a non-footballing sense.
45:40It's entirely up to you.
45:41We're just doing how nice a time did Rich Wolfenden have at the Club World Cup now, not at the
45:45Club World Cup.
45:46Good.
45:46What was the maddest thing that happened?
45:50Because how long were you there?
45:51Four weeks.
45:52Right, something mad.
45:52Right, I refuse to believe you can travel around America for four weeks.
45:55And not have some kind of bizarre situation occur.
45:59There was like the moment where like, it was kind of like a what the fuck is my life kind
46:04of moment.
46:05We were coming back from doing, what game was it?
46:09Oh, I went to watch the Real Madrid PSG semi-final.
46:14All right.
46:15I had my media pass.
46:17Great.
46:18It's happening around the corner.
46:20I might as well go.
46:21I do the same with Haringey Borough, by the way, just in case you're wondering about the level of our
46:26lives at the moment.
46:26Yeah.
46:26Oh, they're playing Witton Albion today.
46:28Can't miss that one.
46:29That was nil-nil.
46:32But yeah, so we, you know, got driven by DAZN to Stadium and back in like these big Escalade things.
46:40No.
46:40Yeah, it was very, very flash.
46:41You feel like you're in a 90s rap video.
46:43Yeah, yeah, it was mad.
46:44Like, I'm an Uber, Prius kind of guy, so this felt strange.
46:49So anyway, so I get into the taxi to leave the stadium because I'm, full-time whistle's gone.
46:53Yeah.
46:53I'm leaving.
46:54So I get my seat in the taxi.
46:56And then one by one, like the staff who were like working the game like came in.
47:00So first person who climbs in next to me, Jono B. McKell.
47:03Michael, you all right?
47:04Good.
47:04McKell.
47:05Jono, can I just, I don't know if you would have caught much of this, being that you were part
47:08of the production as opposed to watching the production as I was.
47:11Jono B. McKell was unbelievable as a pundit.
47:15He was so charming, knowledgeable, funny when you need it to be.
47:21He wore his Chelsea biases on his sleeve.
47:23Oh, yeah.
47:23But in an endearing way so it wasn't like, am I going to drag you to me?
47:27Not like certain pundits you can think of who have to relate every single thing that's ever happened to Liverpool.
47:32Right, yeah.
47:32Right?
47:33He was really good with it and he was funny and he was knowledgeable.
47:36Yeah.
47:36I really like, Callum Wilson was obviously, because the face card, Callum Wilson's born for television.
47:41Jono B. McKell, unbelievable.
47:43Yeah, yeah.
47:43And you know what?
47:44He was so lovely as well.
47:45I bet, I bet he was.
47:47He would just happily talk about, you know, win the Champions League, win the Premier League, that sort of thing.
47:53He'd just happily talk about it.
47:55So anyway, so he climbed in.
47:56I was like, oh, you all right, mate?
47:57Nice to see you.
47:58Then Cleberson gets in.
48:00Wow.
48:01I'm like, oh my God.
48:03Cleberson.
48:03Same.
48:03Yeah.
48:05And, you know, he came and sat next to me and, you know, we went for a pint afterwards as
48:09well, which is really sound.
48:10And I was just kind of like, you know, looking at him like all like starry-eyed, talking about the
48:152002 World Cup.
48:16And he was like, I said to him, oh, so did you still chat to the lads who you won
48:20the World Cup with and whatever?
48:21And he's like, oh yeah, we have a WhatsApp group.
48:23And I was like, what I would give to be in that WhatsApp group.
48:26Do you know what's mad?
48:27Cleberson was the first time I ever bought a newspaper in my life was because of Cleberson.
48:32Was it?
48:33Because after that World Cup, he was either going to Man United or Newcastle.
48:36Yeah.
48:36Right?
48:37And the suggestion was we were going to sell Gary Speed to buy Cleberson for four million pounds.
48:42Because that's how much players who won the World Cup used to cost you.
48:44That's bad, did it?
48:45Four million pounds.
48:46We were going to buy Cleberson.
48:48And someone at school was like, oh, the Chronicle have said that we bought Cleberson.
48:52Oh my God.
48:52Newcastle Evening Chronicle is a local paper.
48:54So I ran to the paper shop around the corner of the school on my lunch.
48:57You weren't allowed to leave school grounds on my lunch.
48:58But hey, I needed to know this.
49:00There was no social media.
49:0230p there for the paper.
49:03And I saw the paper on the thing.
49:05It was a big picture of Cleberson in his Brazil shirt on the back page.
49:07And I was like, oh my God, we've bought Cleberson.
49:09So I grabbed it off the shelf.
49:12Slammed my 35 pence down, however much it was.
49:14Ran back to school.
49:15Got it for everybody to read.
49:16And it was like, yeah, Newcastle are moving away from other targets after Cleberson has said he's going to go
49:21to Man United instead.
49:22And I threw the newspaper on the ground because I was so annoyed.
49:25Chronicle, why have they put him on the back there?
49:27That's just to get the sales, isn't it, clearly?
49:30Literally, people think clickbait's an original invention.
49:33They got me to buy that paper with a picture of Cleberson when the story was Cleberson's not covered.
49:38Chronicle.
49:38Which I suppose makes sense.
49:39Come on.
49:39Anyway, so Cleberson was great.
49:41So Cleberson was great.
49:42What's up group with Ronaldinho and Ronaldo?
49:43Well, that's exactly it.
49:44So we were talking about the players he talks to.
49:47Ronaldo was there at the tournament as well.
49:48He'd pop up because he owns.
49:50They did keep showing him in the stands.
49:52Yeah.
49:53His little name tag next to him, like, we know who Ronaldo is.
49:56I think Cafu popped up a few times and Kaka as well.
49:59Presumably these are all in the chat.
50:00Oh, my God.
50:01Why have I wasted 45 minutes talking about how hot the stadium was going?
50:05We could have just been doing this.
50:06Yeah.
50:07So, yeah, he was telling us about the WhatsApp group.
50:10And he was like, yeah, whenever there's a game in Spain or in France or England and someone dives and
50:16it's really bad,
50:16we always post it in the chat and tag Rivaldo in it.
50:20Because of the face they were the ball.
50:22Yeah.
50:22Amazing.
50:23Exactly.
50:24So Rivaldo's the butt of all the 2002 Brazil squad's jokes.
50:28Hey, they must have been absolutely murdering him after soccer aid.
50:31He was dreadful.
50:32Oh, was he?
50:33Yeah.
50:33Oh, did you watch it?
50:34No, no, I missed it.
50:35Oh, Rivaldo.
50:36I know, like, the ex-pros turn up and they're not exactly, like, putting their bodies on the line or
50:39anything.
50:40Yeah, yeah.
50:40But, like, Rivaldo couldn't string two passes together.
50:42He was getting absolutely, he was getting pocketed by, like, Tom Grennan.
50:47Oh, my God.
50:48But then he's also getting dragged through the WhatsApp group as well afterwards, which is hilarious.
50:53But, yeah, so there's Jono and Mikel behind me.
50:55Cleberson sat next to me.
50:57And then my boss was meant to get in the front seat to come back.
51:02But we were, there was too many people in the car.
51:06Too many stars in the car, unfortunately.
51:07I shouldn't have been there because I was just watching it.
51:09I wasn't working, really.
51:10So thank you, Gab, for letting me have your seat in the car if you're listening.
51:13So he gave up his seat, shotgun.
51:16And this guy, like, gets in.
51:17And I couldn't, like, tell who it was initially, but he was being mobbed by Real Madrid fans.
51:22And it was Gooty.
51:24Gooty!
51:25Gooty turned up, sat in the front seat.
51:28And Jono and Mikel, like, turned his head.
51:30And, like, Jono and Mikel did a double take.
51:32And he was like, that's Gooty.
51:34Yeah, Gooty's another level.
51:35You all right, Gooty?
51:36And Gooty was, like, sat, like, with his big aviators on in, like, the front seat of this escalator.
51:40Like, hi, nice to see you.
51:42I don't think he speaks much English.
51:43Wow.
51:44But then it took about maybe an hour and a half to get out of the New Jersey traffic.
51:49Like, it was an absolute nightmare.
51:50But throughout that whole, like, initial section of getting away from the stadium,
51:55people just kept getting out of their cars and, like, knocking on the window.
51:58Gooty would have to do his window down.
52:00And then he'd sign, like, a Real Madrid shirt.
52:01Do it away.
52:02We'd go back to having a chat.
52:03And then someone else would turn up, knock on the window.
52:06And, like, they were there just, like, worshipping Gooty.
52:09Because, you know, he's a proper galactical.
52:11Oh, Gooty was like, yeah, Gooty's, like, this is no disrespect to Jono and Mikel or Cleverson.
52:15No.
52:16But Gooty's another level on top of that.
52:17Yeah, exactly.
52:17You know, the greatest assist of all time.
52:19The great, that little back heel.
52:20Yeah.
52:21Like, you know, Vinny Jr. did something similar to that earlier on the tournament.
52:24And that kind of brought it to the front of everyone's mind.
52:27And then all of a sudden, there he was, sat shotgun in this car.
52:30So, yeah, me, Jono, Mikel, Cleverson, and Gooty just driving back to the hotel in New York.
52:35Yeah, that's all right.
52:36That's not bad.
52:36It was very surreal.
52:37I thought he was going to be like, oh, yeah, the weather was, like, absolutely chaotic.
52:40Have you seen the rain in America?
52:42Those guys don't do anything small.
52:44But, no, getting stuck in an Escalade with Gooty's pretty good.
52:46I did have one more question, which was going to be, like, you're an Everton fan.
52:49What player had you never seen before at the start of this tournament that you want Everton to buy?
52:52But I don't think the answer to that is going to be anywhere near as interesting as Gooty in an
52:56Escalade.
52:56Yeah, no, no, no.
52:57Gooty in an Escalade is probably my favourite takeaway from that.
53:00If you did have to pick one player, no context, just so we don't kill the energy of the Gooty
53:06story, who would you have?
53:07To take from the Club World Cup for Everton.
53:08You can say Gooty, actually, if you want.
53:09Gooty could probably still do a job for Everton.
53:11I think Gooty gets into that side.
53:13Well, you know, we've got Drissagana Gay, who's, you know, a bit of an old boy.
53:17But alongside Gooty, you know, they've probably got a bit of style and a bit of enthusiasm that they could
53:21bring to the Everton midfield.
53:23Anybody from the Brazilian sides?
53:25Anybody from the American sides?
53:28Yeah, could.
53:29Technically, if you've never seen Messi play before, he would qualify as an answer to this question.
53:33I haven't seen Messi play before.
53:34You could say Messi, though.
53:35So I could have Messi, I guess.
53:38Messi under Moyes.
53:40Would Messi displace Dwight McNeil?
53:44Horses for courses.
53:45I don't believe in strongest XI.
53:46So you can just have a squad.
53:47Rotate, you know, bring Messi in for the League Cup games and whatnot.
53:51It could be the League Cup winger.
53:52Yeah, yeah, yeah.
53:53Who I was really impressed by was Dierescaeta for, I just like saying his name.
53:58I was like, the time you must have spent putting in to make sure you're getting that pronunciation right.
54:02That was the hardest.
54:03Yeah, I would not waste that by answering a different player on this question.
54:08Giorgiano Dierescaeta was his name.
54:10Well done.
54:11Yeah.
54:12I'm trying to say his name fast.
54:12Genuine privilege to watch a pro at work.
54:14I hope no Premier League clubs are linked with him because I will have to do that video and I
54:18will be phoning you three times during that recording.
54:21Dierescaeta.
54:23Dierescaeta.
54:23Yeah.
54:24Honestly, it took time.
54:26That was the hardest one to do.
54:28Luckily, one of my colleagues had already done them in the earlier group stage games.
54:31So, it was there.
54:33Right.
54:33I'm going to wrap that, Rich.
54:34And before we go, our contractually obligated reminder that all the highlights of the Club World Cup games are still
54:39available for free on the DAZONE app.
54:41If you haven't, if you for some reason didn't sign up during the tournament and you feel really left out
54:45or you've listened to this conversation, you thought, oh, that actually sounded quite good.
54:48Well, you can sign up now, watch back all the highlights and live it in microcosm, which I don't think
54:53is a terrible way to do anything.
54:55And they've got loads of other stuff coming up that I was supposed to remember to say.
54:58The boxing, which I presume is where all my independent sports desk colleagues are today.
55:02They've got Serie A.
55:03Serie A, they've signed up too.
55:05Loads of stuff on there.
55:06So, check it out.
55:07The link is in the description, which is where it always is on YouTube.
55:09Rich, would you like to promote any of your own social medias or current projects?
55:13Yeah, I mean, you can follow me on social media, mostly Instagram and TikTok these days.
55:17I've kind of given up on Twitter.
55:19It's just become a little bit too...
55:21You've just come back from America now, haven't you?
55:23So you're...
55:24Yeah, that's kind of like, you know, the living, breathing Twitter.
55:28You've seen what it can do, basically.
55:29Is that what put you off Twitter?
55:30Yeah, exactly.
55:31So, yeah, follow me.
55:32I'd say follow me on Instagram and TikTok if you like behind-the-scenes stuff on that.
55:36Just search me.
55:37I'm sure I'll appear somewhere.
55:39Listen to Radio X Indie Night, Friday and Saturday nights.
55:42If you like a bit of Foo Fighters, a bit of Arctic Monkeys, Oasis, of course.
55:46Oh, yeah, here, they're back.
55:48Yeah, they're back there knocking around.
55:50And then, yeah, you'll probably just hear me knocking around on football every now and then.
55:54A bit of EFL, a bit of Conference League, Europa League.
55:57Hopefully the World Cup next year.
55:58That's the one thing.
56:00I forgot to write this down to ask you about it.
56:01Did you see the guy on Twitter who posted your video?
56:05Oh, yeah, I got texted it, yeah.
56:06Who was like, what?
56:07I thought this guy's voice was some white-bred-ass dude in his 50s.
56:11Yeah, no, I've seen that.
56:12Some other guy commented saying, wow, I thought you were 80 and bald.
56:17You're actually 30 and well-groomed.
56:19That's genuinely such a huge compliment because what they're saying is, in our head, commentators
56:24are Barry Davis and you sounded near enough to him to be sort of in that bracket.
56:29So I would take that as a comment.
56:31Anyway, I should have brought that up earlier.
56:32Anyway, I thought that was incredibly funny.
56:34You get me across all the socials.
56:35I don't know if you see earlier or why.
56:36If you're not already subscribed to ACFC, I doubt this is the video that will convince you
56:40to do it as it's like a tactics channel.
56:41And this was like a long-form podcast for someone who's just had a bit of a nice working holiday.
56:46It's very good.
56:47But why not?
56:48The studio stuff when we talk about players and transfers and your club in specifics.
56:53Probably.
56:54And that's it.
56:55That's it.
56:55Let us know what you thought about this because I might do some more now that we have this
56:58nice studio.
56:58But until then, goodbye.
57:00And thank you to DAZN.
57:01That's all the Club World Cup coverage you're getting.
57:04Goodbye.
57:05Goodbye.
57:05Goodbye.
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