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Conversations with Creators - Episodio 3: Treyarch.
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00:05Combat, Technology, Zombies
00:08These are three influential words shaping the current landscape of pop culture
00:13They have also impacted the powerful three-word franchise
00:17Which has echoed through gaming lore for the past decade
00:21Call of Duty
00:24Since its inception, Call of Duty has taken the gaming world
00:29By transporting gamers to the legendary battlefields of World War II
00:34All the way to futuristic story worlds loaded with advanced weaponry and machinery
00:40And now, Treyarch, the award-winning development team behind the successful Black Ops series
00:46Continues their storied tradition of mixing gritty, dark narrative with cutting-edge gameplay
00:52Through their upcoming release, Call of Duty Black Ops 3
00:57A gigantic and futuristic world where enhanced breeds of soldiers emerge
01:03And where lines are blurred between our own humanity and the cutting-edge military robotics
01:09That may just define the future of combat
01:12The campaign promises to be a cinematic thrill ride
01:17While multiplayer is shaping up to be the franchise's deepest, most rewarding, and most engaging to date
01:24And, of course, Zombies
01:26There is a dedicated narrative built specifically for an all-new, enigmatic, zombie-loaded experience
01:35These three core modes of play will fuel Treyarch's dystopic take on how the progression of technology
01:43Might just lead us into a world where only those who risk going too far will find out how far
01:51they can actually go
01:52On this third episode of Conversations with Creators
01:56I will sit down and discuss the next iteration of the iconic Call of Duty Black Ops franchise
02:02With Treyarch studio head Mark Lamia
02:05Game director of Campaign and Zombies Jason Blundell
02:09Multiplayer game director Dan Bunting
02:12And studio design director David Vonderhaar
02:45We are here today
02:45To talk specifically about the Call of Duty franchise
02:47And also Black Ops 3
02:49Which we saw debuted at E3 that I'm super excited about
02:54One of the things that I thought was really cool
02:56Is that you've been together basically since the beginning of this franchise
03:00And you have worked over different types of hardware
03:03And through different system architectures
03:06And I would love to learn from you
03:08Like, what has that been like?
03:11Like, going back
03:11I mean, we're going back over 10 years now
03:14So, like, how have you seen the industry change?
03:18How have expectations from your audience changed?
03:21And what have you done to keep up with that?
03:23Yeah, I mean, you know
03:26I was there from the inception of Call of Duty
03:28And it was
03:29You know, we were very much inspired by what was done
03:32In some of the movies that we'd seen
03:34Some of those World War II epic cinematic movies
03:37Or, you know, even shows like the Band of Brothers
03:40Right, because you came out right around like that
03:42Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers time
03:44And, you know, that was very influential
03:47And we wanted to bring, you know, that sort of cinematic experience
03:52As the hardware has, you know, capabilities have increased
03:54I think it's allowed us to, as artists, to be able to express ourselves
03:59To realize our visions with greater fidelity
04:01And really truly realize everything from the artistry
04:04To the animation, to the sound design
04:06To all the design aspirations
04:07And, you know, Sony PlayStation 4 is an incredible piece of hardware
04:10And the kinds of things that we can do on this next generation of hardware
04:13Is truly amazing
04:14And really allows us the freedom to almost create anything we want
04:19It's really interesting, because like in the early kind of consoles
04:21You know, going back to, or not that early
04:23But, you know, PS2 and those kind of things
04:24We have a term in the industry, you know, smoke and mirrors, right?
04:26This idea of, you know, especially on the campaign side
04:30What we're trying to do is make you feel a certain way
04:32Or kind of put you in a certain perspective
04:34You know, be it kind of the closeness with your comrades doing something
04:37The intensity, the claustrophobic
04:39Or the expanse and the space of things
04:41In the past, we'd always have those desires
04:45Those needs to tell those kind of stories
04:46But hardware was limited as well
04:48You know, you can't draw infinite ranges
04:50Or you can't do every blade of grass
04:52And so we take more of an impressionist painter kind of mentality
04:55I need you to feel like there's every blade of grass
04:58Even though I can't actually render every blade of grass
05:00So you'd have to do these tricks
05:02You'd have to do this
05:03And it's always a balancing act
05:04In terms of, you know, what's the most important thing
05:06You want to show at that moment
05:07And then hence, where do you want to spend your GPU or CPU chips?
05:11Sure, yeah
05:11Do you find now that without those limitations
05:15That you would have had, you know, back
05:17Maybe ten years ago
05:18Is that harder?
05:20It's fun, isn't it?
05:20Because you think about Jaws, right?
05:22Yeah
05:22It costs a lot more money
05:24If Jaws, if the shark had worked
05:26Yeah
05:27It would have been a very different movie
05:28Yeah
05:28Right?
05:29In the same way, I think some of the great things
05:32That's right
05:32We did in those early games with limited hardware
05:34Forced us to take creative choices and creative bends
05:36That maybe if we'd had the full power
05:38We wouldn't have got there
05:39We're not as limited by that
05:41Our technology is powerful enough
05:42But yes, on the performance side
05:44Like, one of the things about Call of Duty
05:46Is it's so important how it feels
05:48So even though we can make it look however we want
05:52We always
05:52We're always balanced
05:53It's always the balancing act of making sure it runs at like 60 frames per second
05:56And it feels
05:57There's a connected feeling to the game that players have with it
06:00Yeah, I think, I mean, constraints are good
06:01We always talk about how
06:03Constraints are limiting
06:04But they're also the things that force you into those hard decisions
06:06Like Jason was talking about
06:07And we've always
06:07Especially coming from a multiplayer angle
06:09We have a lot of constraints
06:11Because we're trying to make
06:12This game that looks as amazing as possible
06:14And also is very balanced and competitive
06:16And actually create a better gameplay experience for our fans
06:19I had read in my research for this
06:22That you took a sound team out
06:23Into different environments
06:25And fired a bunch of different weapons
06:27And I don't know if this is interesting to the kids at home
06:31But it's super interesting
06:32To me
06:33But what I really want to know is like
06:34Where did that decision come from?
06:37Something we've done from the very earliest parts of this franchise
06:39To be able to take out the weapons that we're either creating or inspired by
06:45And to be able to put them in a canyon
06:46And they're firing everything off from pistols to high caliber weaponry
06:51And everything in between
06:52And they're capturing it all, right?
06:54But not only just for the sounds that those make
06:56But it's really the artistry that goes on after that
06:59And we go inside the sound room
07:00And they put together these other sounds
07:02You know, everything from
07:03They layer them in
07:04To get different kinds of metal reaction sounds
07:06That kind of get a broader sort of palette to this
07:09One of the fun things they did
07:10Was they took cars
07:11And lifted them up with cranes
07:13And then dropped them onto other cars
07:14So that was my favorite thing to sign off on
07:16We had Brian Chewy
07:17Our sound designer came up to us
07:18And he goes
07:19And I get this thing that comes across my desk
07:21And it says
07:22We're going to go out to the junkyard
07:23And drop cars
07:24And
07:26That's like
07:26Dear 10-year-old me
07:28Guess what you get paid to do someday
07:31And I'm like
07:31Okay, I'm going to talk to him
07:33This isn't one of those ones
07:33I'm just going to sign off on
07:34So I'm going to say
07:35Look
07:36So what are we doing out there?
07:37And he's like
07:37You know, Mark
07:38There's just nothing like the sound
07:41That you can get
07:42With metal crunching
07:44With glass breaking
07:45That
07:46You know
07:46We really need that
07:48When these cars
07:48And the vehicles
07:49Explode in the game
07:50I really want to get that
07:51If I could just drop cars
07:53I think I could capture
07:54The right amount of sounds
07:58Well, I think
07:58I mean, just speaking as like
07:59A boy who was once
08:00A destructive child
08:02Awesome
08:03But one of the things
08:04People are constantly
08:05Talking about
08:05With your games
08:06Is how there is
08:08Such realism to it
08:10The weapons team's process
08:11Is actually
08:12They have a very
08:14Like science-style method
08:16In how they develop
08:17The weapons
08:17Both creatively
08:18And from a technology
08:19And art point of view
08:19In the past
08:20We've even written up
08:22Personality bios
08:23For each weapon
08:23So there's a whole process
08:24That goes into
08:25Just concepting each weapon
08:26And each weapon's personality
08:28We like to have
08:29These very big personalities
08:30To all of our gameplay content
08:32So that each one
08:32Is distinct from the other
08:33So when you're looking
08:35At that sort of thing
08:36You're looking at
08:36Future design like that
08:37Do you work with
08:41Someone who will say
08:43So look
08:43I forecast the future
08:45And I can look at
08:46The way weapons have
08:47Advanced over the last 20 years
08:49This is how we expect them
08:50To advance over the last 60 years
08:51So your weapon
08:52Should look like this
08:53Or is it more like
08:54Look, it's my game
08:56I want this
08:57I think it's cool
08:58So let's kind of like
08:59Back into
09:00This is what it would
09:01Actually do
09:02So the technology
09:03At the time
09:03Is something that
09:04We've researched
09:06We research extensively
09:07And we have worked
09:08With experts
09:09And futurists
09:11Just more so
09:12For the technology
09:13At the time
09:13But when you're talking
09:14About like something
09:15As intimate as the weapon
09:16In a first person shooter
09:17And these are people
09:18Who have been creating
09:18Weapons
09:19Obviously historical weapons
09:21Up until
09:22Largely until
09:23Black Ops 2 really
09:26For almost a decade
09:27These guys are
09:27Expert weapon designers
09:29So everything about the weapon
09:30I mean it goes through
09:31So many iterations
09:32Even if you've never
09:33Seen this weapon before
09:34If you know anything
09:35About weapons
09:36You know
09:36This is almost like
09:38It could be a real weapon
09:39It has
09:39Everything has
09:40Function
09:41Real life function
09:42Every moving piece
09:43Is animated
09:44Every part of this
09:46Has been thought of
09:47As though it is a real weapon
09:47You know
09:48In our historical games
09:49Used to appreciate that
09:50On this authenticity
09:51I think people
09:52Will appreciate the detail
09:53That goes into
09:54How we realize
09:55Those future things
09:56But there's
09:56All kinds of future technology
09:57On the battlefield
09:58Not just weapons
09:59Look we have our own
10:00Internal debate
10:01Some of this stuff
10:02Will push out
10:02A little bit further
10:04And you know
10:05And get a little more
10:05Creative with
10:06And some of this stuff
10:07Feels a little bit more like
10:08Yeah this looks like
10:09This is the next version
10:10Of X type of weapon
10:11As a game designer
10:12You're very focused on
10:13The game tuning
10:15Of the weapons
10:15And making sure
10:16There's a good
10:16Broad portfolio
10:17And that they fit
10:18Into a power band
10:19And the weapon artists
10:20Are of course
10:21Trying to make something
10:22That seems like
10:22A believable weapon
10:23That would exist
10:24And you're like
10:24That's how it would
10:25Reload in the future
10:26I'm like yeah
10:26But it reloads too slow
10:27And so how are we
10:28Going to fix that
10:29Because you're concerned
10:30About game balance
10:30For players
10:31Yeah so right
10:31From a purely
10:32Game design point of view
10:33You're very concerned
10:34About that stuff
10:35So there's always
10:36This really intense mix
10:37Between you know
10:38The art
10:38And the design
10:39And the technology
10:40And how
10:41And the sound design
10:42As well
10:43And how all of those
10:43Come together
10:44At a table
10:45To make a really
10:46Smart proper decision
10:47About the game
10:48You spend a lot of time
10:50Addressing the multiplayer
10:51Aspects of these games
10:53And the you know
10:55I mean everyone knows
10:55You have a very
10:56Passionate community
10:57Of like super
10:58Dedicated game players
11:01And I would imagine
11:02That you have to create
11:03What is effectively
11:05A level playing field
11:06That allows an individual
11:07Player's skill
11:08To decide who's
11:10Like what team's
11:11Going to triumph
11:11Well it's a tremendous
11:12Process so you know
11:14You want the game
11:15To be quite accessible
11:16And we work very hard
11:17So that any gamer
11:19Could put their hands
11:20On the controller
11:21And start playing
11:22And trying to provide
11:23An experience for players
11:24Who feel like they can
11:25Constantly improve
11:26And I think that's what
11:27Helps Treyarch Call of Duty games
11:30Just in general
11:31Have some legs
11:32After they come out
11:33Is because there's a lot
11:34To master over time
11:35And that comes from
11:35That skill gap
11:36And that skill planning
11:37So you want players to be
11:39Feel successful always
11:40Or feel like they can
11:41Get involved
11:42And be successful
11:43And not be frustrated by that
11:44But you also have to
11:45Provide the challenges
11:46Along the way
11:46To keep them invested
11:47And it's actually
11:48A very conscious
11:49Kind of design
11:50Philosophy that we have
11:52And we work against
11:52And we do it in all
11:54Sorts of ways
11:54With how you unlock
11:55Content in what order
11:56All the way up to
11:57The game modes
11:58And the difficulties
11:59Between them
12:00And you're working
12:01To try to provide
12:02An experience for players
12:03That can outline
12:03Over a period of time
12:04I'm very interested
12:05To know what you
12:06Would consider to be
12:08Sort of the DNA
12:09Of your organization
12:11Of your team
12:12That is constant
12:13Through the like
12:15Inception of one
12:16Of your titles
12:17All the way through
12:18To shipping
12:19And then also
12:20Maintaining it
12:20Once it's out
12:21And how you choose
12:22To put out DLC for it
12:24And keep the games
12:24Kind of growing and alive
12:26And how you address
12:27Being super successful
12:28But not like
12:30Just getting complacent
12:31In our case
12:32We talk about
12:33Always trying to do
12:33The best work of our careers
12:34The best work of our lives
12:36Each and every time
12:36It is literally the reason
12:37To do it again
12:38Especially if you've
12:39Already seen success
12:41With like I said
12:42Which you're fortunate
12:42To have
12:44Otherwise you do
12:45Get complacent
12:45It's why
12:46You know
12:47Black Ops 2
12:48Is different
12:49While there is
12:50While there's
12:50It's clearly
12:51Call of Duty
12:52And there's clearly
12:53Some of the DNA
12:54In our Black Ops franchise
12:55Each of our games
12:57Is creatively
12:57Very different
12:58And I think
12:59That's the other part of it
13:00It's like you want to do
13:01The best work of your life
13:02You can say that
13:03Until you're blue in the face
13:04But I think the way
13:04You do that
13:05With people who are accomplished
13:06Is you challenge them
13:08You give them
13:09Truly creatively
13:10Challenging assignments
13:11Then you push
13:12Like you've never pushed
13:13Before
13:13And you have to create
13:15A trusting and creative environment
13:16If you're going to stand around
13:17And critique each other
13:18People have to be able to trust
13:19That that criticism
13:20Is coming from a good place
13:21That the reason why
13:22Dan's telling me
13:23Something's not good enough
13:24Is because he wants
13:25The best for the game
13:26And not only that
13:27That Dan's going to stay
13:28And help me
13:29You know
13:29Get to that next place
13:30And I think that's the
13:32That's certainly the culture
13:33That we try to foster
13:34Inside of Treyarch
13:35Is stop looking to the outside
13:37For any kind of validation
13:39Set your own benchmarks
13:41You're going to do something great
13:42And when you do something great
13:43The rest of the world
13:44Will hopefully take care of itself
13:45And that's not to say
13:46That we don't listen to our fans
13:47Because there's a whole part
13:48Of our game
13:49That literally exists
13:50Because of our fans
13:50That we can talk about
13:52But like
13:52Let's talk about it
13:54Okay
13:55Well let's talk about it
13:56We make a very social game
13:57The multiplayer game
13:58Is incredibly social
13:59And our fans love it
14:00But one part of the game
14:01That literally only exists
14:02Because of our fans
14:03Is our zombies
14:04Yeah
14:05It was a passion project
14:08Inside the studio
14:09That totally should never have
14:11You know
14:11In any sort of like
14:12I probably shouldn't even be here
14:13As a studio head
14:14Because I let this thing happen
14:15At a time
14:16When the development was strained
14:18And the team was
14:19You know
14:20In a difficult place
14:21Trying to release
14:22A historically authentic
14:23Cinematic World War II game
14:25And then you hear
14:25Have you heard
14:26They threw a zombie in there
14:28It's a Nazi zombie
14:29Right
14:29Everyone likes to kill
14:30Nazi zombies
14:31So you know
14:31It's a fun
14:32It's a fun
14:32Fun new game co-op mode
14:33And I'm like
14:34Whoa
14:34Like this hasn't been greenlit
14:36Like what's going on
14:37You know
14:38You gotta try it
14:39Did you just sort of
14:39Start moonlighting on zombies
14:41And you were just like
14:42You know what
14:42I have this idea
14:43And I'm just basically
14:44Going to beg forgiveness
14:45Is that where that came from
14:46I mean the studio itself
14:47I mean it was
14:48As Mark was saying
14:49It kind of comes from
14:50The guys having a passion
14:51To create it
14:52And just kind of
14:52Toying things around
14:53And playing with stuff
14:53And then putting it
14:55In front of Mark
14:55And kind of showing it
14:56And saying okay
14:57The temperature was good
14:58Okay it's all good
14:59And I think Mark
15:00Then went on a process
15:01Of introducing it
15:02To our publisher
15:03Bit by bit
15:04We actually learned
15:04Like a really valuable lesson
15:05About how to
15:06Internally market
15:07Features that were
15:09Controversial through that process
15:10Because you know
15:11It was our first co-op experience
15:12As a team
15:12Making a game
15:13That was cooperative
15:14And we were just
15:14It was a thing
15:16That evolved over time
15:17As we were making
15:17The campaign game
15:19For co-op
15:19We just learned
15:21And discovered
15:21Hey the most fun experiences
15:23Are when you're defending
15:23And you're defending together
15:24And you're playing
15:25These kind of defense missions
15:26And that just was like
15:29We should just make a mode
15:30That is just about defending
15:32And having waves of attackers
15:34And that was where
15:35It kind of started
15:36And then the zombie portion
15:39Came in because
15:39One of our missions
15:41Was based on the Peleliu Island
15:44Where a bunch of
15:45Airstrikes had come in
15:46So we went to mo-cap
15:47We motion captured
15:48All of these walking
15:49Wounded soldiers
15:50So they're all kind of
15:50Like hobbling around
15:51And injured
15:52And one of our lead scripters
15:55At the time on the campaign
15:57He started to plug that in
15:58And say
15:59You know it's a little bit
16:00More fun when there's zombies
16:01In there
16:02When there's soldiers
16:02And he started to
16:04You know add some layers
16:05To the mechanic
16:06Put some
16:06You know
16:07Sort of put the windows
16:08That you could repair
16:09And the wall buys
16:10Yeah
16:10And as we started
16:11To build this game out
16:13The
16:13All different departments
16:14Start climbing in
16:15After they're crunched
16:17At night
16:17Like the sound team
16:18Starts putting in
16:19The animation team
16:20Starts putting in
16:21Totally
16:22It was total grassroots
16:23It just started
16:24People started playing it
16:25On the team
16:27And it just started
16:28Kind of
16:28In the middle of the night
16:28More people got aware
16:30They should have been
16:30Going home to get sleep
16:31They had me play it
16:32And I was like
16:32Oh this is a lot of fun
16:34I'm going to have to figure
16:34Now I've got the problem
16:35Figuring out how to support
16:36The team to get it done
16:38So I just did the exact
16:39Same thing
16:39I literally
16:40You know
16:40I wouldn't give it
16:41Too much of a preamble
16:42I'd just sit down with people
16:43And have them play with me
16:44And isn't this fun
16:45And just get them
16:46Actually emotionally invested
16:47In what it was
16:49But that only goes so far
16:50In business
16:50Because this is a
16:51You know
16:52As I talked to you
16:53About the origins of this thing
16:54This is a authentic
16:57Cinematic experience
16:58Inside of a historical setting
16:59In this case
17:00A pretty
17:00And World at War
17:01Was a very like
17:02Intense
17:03Brutal
17:03Serious
17:04You know
17:05World War 2 game
17:06Yeah
17:07And there's some people
17:08Who are like
17:09You're not sticking zombies
17:10In Call of Duty
17:11I mean like
17:12What are you talking about
17:12Like
17:13Have you lost your mind man
17:15Yeah
17:15The thing about it was
17:16We made this deal
17:17With Activision
17:19Who owns Trey Arkin
17:20As our publisher
17:21That it wouldn't get marketed
17:23It would not get
17:24We wouldn't market this
17:25It's okay
17:25Let us release it
17:27As an Easter egg
17:28Like
17:28After everyone's
17:29Already experienced
17:30The you know
17:31Artfully crafted
17:32Beautiful
17:33Call of Duty game
17:34That we've been working on
17:34For years
17:35Let them experience that game
17:37After the credits roll
17:38We'll have this little surprise
17:40At the end
17:40It's a lot of fun
17:41I think people will enjoy it
17:42Yeah
17:43So they let us do that
17:44And I think that very decision
17:46To actually not
17:47And it's a very
17:48Un Call of Duty
17:48Like thing in this world
17:49To do if you think about it
17:50Not promote it
17:51Not market it
17:52At all
17:54The people who found it
17:55Who'd already got
17:56What they bargained for
17:57They played their game
17:58And they
18:00They took it
18:01They owned it
18:02And that very same internet
18:03Blew it up for us
18:04Yeah
18:05They took it
18:05They got to own it
18:06The fans of your game
18:07Getting so excited about that
18:09That it blows up
18:11It becomes its own thing
18:12Their support
18:13Their passion
18:13Leads to
18:15It becomes a main part
18:16Of what a Treyarch
18:17Call of Duty game
18:18What a Treyarch
18:18Black Ops game is
18:19It takes center stage
18:20As part of what Black Ops
18:22When we ship Black Ops
18:23It was
18:24It had an epic campaign
18:25It had an awesome multiplayer
18:26And it had zombies
18:27That came with it
18:29And just became part
18:30Of what we make
18:31When we make our
18:31Call of Duty games
18:32Yeah
18:32Like it's a legitimate
18:33It's its own thing
18:34On the disc
18:35You know
18:35And it kind of
18:37You know
18:37From those humble
18:38Kind of beginnings
18:39You know
18:40In terms of what's fun
18:41What's engaging
18:42To the point now
18:43Where it's getting allocations
18:44And it's getting resources
18:45In the studio
18:46So we're developing it
18:47Which are just as long
18:48And just as weighty
18:49As other things
18:50And you have to
18:50You know
18:51With DLC
18:51And digital content
18:52And stuff
18:52And so forth
18:53Consider it like a campaign
18:54Consider it like a full story
18:56As a seven year story arc
18:57For its characters
18:58That we've been
18:59We've been going on
19:00With this journey
19:00That will
19:01And I think that's
19:02An interesting
19:02I think that's something
19:02That you'll actually
19:03Be interested in hearing
19:04Is that the story
19:05For zombies
19:06Didn't always exist
19:07There was not
19:09This comprehensive
19:10And forethought
19:12Put into what this story
19:13Was going to be
19:13From start to finish
19:14We had very little
19:16Fiction around it
19:17I mean it was
19:18The very first iteration
19:19Of zombies
19:20Was literally
19:20Hobbled together
19:21From things that we found
19:22From other parts of the game
19:24They were mute characters
19:25Right
19:25They didn't speak
19:25They didn't have any
19:26Personality in that sense
19:27But the community
19:28Started to pick up
19:29On little
19:31Just little hints
19:32Of things
19:32In the game
19:33And there were
19:34Some intentional easter eggs
19:35That were put around
19:36But there were also
19:36Some ones that we
19:37Didn't actually place
19:38That the fans
19:38Started to have
19:40These conspiracy theories
19:41What does that mean
19:42And they would fight
19:43With one another
19:44About what things meant
19:44There was one example
19:46Which was
19:46It was a texture
19:47That was warped
19:47Just warped
19:49At the corner
19:49And they found it
19:50They came in
19:51And it was like
19:52Finding a deity
19:53On your toast
19:53It was like
19:54Oh wow
19:55They're like
19:56They're saying something
19:57That's like a demon
19:58Or something
19:58And that's because
19:59He's meddling
20:00In other powers
20:00And it was just
20:01That we warped
20:02The texture
20:02But we saw
20:04That kind of interest
20:04Going and it was like
20:05We should actually
20:06Do more of this stuff
20:07Deliberately
20:08We asked our
20:10PlayStation Nation
20:11If there were things
20:12That they wanted to know
20:13Specifically
20:15And I think
20:16It would suck out loud
20:17If I didn't get to
20:18One of the questions
20:19That we selected
20:20From our
20:22PlayStation readers
20:23So
20:24PSN ID
20:26Reaper3720
20:27Like the name
20:28Great name
20:29Would like to know
20:31What can the
20:32Hardcore players
20:33Expect to see
20:35In the Black Ops 3
20:36Multiplayer
20:37Yeah so
20:37It's probably referring to
20:39Hardcore the game mode variant
20:40This is a game mode
20:41Where we usually have
20:42Reduced health
20:43And there's usually
20:44No HUD
20:44That's usually
20:45When they talk to
20:46Hardcore
20:47That's what they're
20:47Referring about
20:48So
20:49We're very aware
20:50That the hardcore community
20:51Exists
20:52We still have
20:53Hardcore game modes
20:54It's still very much
20:55A part of the game
20:56And when we get
20:57Closer to launch
20:57And talking about
20:58Game modes
20:59We'll be in a better
20:59Position to talk about
21:00Specifically which
21:01Game modes will be
21:02Natively hardcore
21:02You will definitely
21:03Be able to play
21:04All game modes
21:04In hardcore
21:05And then there will
21:06Certain playlists
21:06That allow you to
21:07Play that mode
21:08Natively in hardcore
21:10And as you might expect
21:12We're probably going to
21:12Go through the process
21:13Of like
21:14Which ones are the
21:15Most popular hardcore
21:15And make sure
21:16That those are accessible
21:17So all the hardcore
21:18Players can find each
21:19Other and play together
21:19That's really what
21:20We want to do
21:20Yeah and we'll have
21:20A real robust
21:21Custom games
21:22For people who like
21:23To do private matches
21:24And be able to set up
21:25You know
21:26Whatever rules they want
21:26One of the things
21:27You guys always talk about
21:29With Call of Duty
21:30Is choice
21:31You talk about
21:32Choice for gamers
21:33And it's really
21:34Coming up over and over
21:35And over again
21:35With Black Ops 3
21:36Would you talk about
21:37Some of the things
21:37That you might be
21:38Bringing to 3
21:39That we've never seen before
21:41With the co-op campaign
21:42First time in a while
21:43Last one was ours
21:44Actually World at War
21:46Bringing four players in
21:49We wanted to be able
21:50To give you personality
21:51Be able to give you
21:51Kind of choice
21:52On who you are
21:52So there's obviously
21:53The idea of
21:55Customizing a character
21:56That's first for the campaign
21:57Customizing the character
21:58Detailing about
21:59Choosing the face
22:00Choosing the gear
22:01Then you also have
22:02This concept of a safe house
22:03An area between levels
22:04So historically
22:06Missions would just go
22:07One into the next
22:08But this is being told
22:08Over more like a week
22:09A week and a half
22:10Time period
22:10So you actually go back
22:12To the safe house
22:12And prep before you
22:13Go to the next mission
22:14So that area
22:15Your bunk area
22:17You can customize
22:17You can put things
22:18On the wall
22:18That you find in the missions
22:19You can change your flag
22:21You can change
22:22The persona of who you are
22:24As people join your co-op game
22:25Their bunks open
22:26With their bunk in there
22:27So if they then disconnect
22:28That would close
22:29And if someone else joined it
22:30It would open up
22:30Oh that's really cool
22:32So that's just the aesthetics part
22:34Right
22:34We're showing off medals
22:35Bragging rights
22:36What you've done
22:37These items that you've found
22:39In different levels
22:40Then you can kind of
22:41Go out into that safe house
22:42And choose your weapon
22:44So with leveling up
22:45And progression
22:46Pick the base weapon
22:47Attachments
22:48How much you're playing it
22:49And how much you're using
22:50That weapon
22:50Allows you to
22:51Pimp that out more
22:52Apply paint patterns
22:54To that as well
22:54Customize it
22:55Personalize it
22:56In that way
22:56And then we have this concept
22:57Of cyber cores
22:58Because you're a cybernetic soldier
23:00You've been enhanced
23:01Or augmented
23:02You have these three cores
23:04That then have a list
23:05Of abilities associated with them
23:07So picking them
23:08Upgrading them
23:09Allows you to then
23:10Customize it
23:11And change
23:12What kind of
23:14Equipment
23:14And abilities
23:15You can take to the battlefield
23:16That's great
23:17So if I start out thinking
23:18I want to be this type of player
23:20And I realize
23:21I'm not really having that much fun
23:23Being this type of player
23:24I can take that thing out
23:26And put in a new thing
23:27And not be stuck with it
23:28You can have multiple loadouts
23:29So actually during the mission
23:30You can go to a loadout container
23:31And say
23:32Listen I brought my long range stuff
23:34I was going with a sniper rifle
23:35I was using
23:37You know this kind of chaos ability
23:38To kind of take robots out
23:40And actually I found out
23:41That I want to do more close combat
23:42It's humans close combat
23:43I've got my human close combat loadout here
23:45Let me just change to that
23:46Okay I'm going to do rapid strike now
23:48I'm going to jump in
23:48And be hitting guys
23:49And then shotgunning them
23:50At close range
23:51Yeah
23:52And then the team as well
23:53Can look at each other's loadout
23:55And set up
23:55Before they go into a mission
23:56So they can configure themselves appropriately
23:58Do you all have a favored class
24:00And a favored style
24:01Or do you really need to
24:03Like everybody's got to be familiar
24:05With everything
24:06Because every
24:07You know like you
24:08You just sort of need to be able
24:09To engage in conversation
24:10With anyone
24:11Regardless of what their loadout is
24:12Here's the absolute truth
24:13You encourage everybody on the team
24:15To use everything
24:16So you can get the widest range
24:17Of feedback and information about that
24:19And that works right up
24:21Until they don't do so well
24:22And then they revert to the habits
24:23Of what makes them successful
24:24As players
24:25So you know this
24:26This is why things like public betas
24:28Which Call of Duty Black Ops 3 multiplayer
24:30Will have
24:31Are important to us
24:32So that you can get a wide swath
24:34Of information and data
24:35That will help feed
24:36That sort of playtest feedback
24:38You know
24:39Everybody wants to be better
24:41Than their fellow player
24:42On the competitive side anyway
24:44You know you certainly see
24:45A lot of diversity
24:46On the campaign players
24:47But even them
24:48People just rally around things
24:49That they worked on
24:50Or are passionate about
24:51And it's just
24:51You know
24:51We're still gamers
24:52Right
24:53So even though you're a game maker
24:54It's hard to beat over being a gamer
24:56And I have a great test team
24:56Yeah
24:57That's right
24:57And I don't rely on them
24:58To test the game
24:59Otherwise it would just be like
25:01Whatever your favorite thing
25:02Would be awesome
25:03But that said
25:04We do
25:05You know
25:05For multiplayer
25:06We playtest it every single day
25:07Yeah
25:08With the team
25:09Because it's a game
25:10That you can't really play solo
25:11Of course
25:12So you have to have
25:13The team has to play it together
25:15To iterate and understand
25:17What the problems are
25:17And solve them creatively
25:19You know
25:20I myself play like
25:21Probably three or four times a week
25:23And I deliberately try to pick
25:25Different things every time
25:26To get a sense of what
25:27That experience is going to be
25:29Across a wide variety
25:31Of our fan base
25:31When I had Bungie here
25:33And we were talking about Destiny
25:35There was this very clear divide
25:38Between the guys who thought
25:39Shotguns were great
25:40And the guys who thought
25:41Long range weapons were great
25:43Do you have any divides like that
25:45Internally at the studio?
25:47Any one shot kill weapon
25:49Like a sniper rifle
25:50Or a shotgun at close range
25:51Is very controversial
25:52Just period
25:53It's hard to balance something
25:54That's a one shot kill
25:55Where's the skill gap
25:56Where's the curve
25:56Yeah
25:57Right
25:57So this is when
25:59We try to mix the emotion
26:01Of playing and making games
26:02With the data of making games
26:04Yeah
26:04And you let the data
26:05You know
26:05Sort of gauge
26:06Your emotional reaction
26:07To those things
26:08And that's the only really
26:10Logistical way to deal
26:11With that particular challenge
26:13Is we have performance metrics
26:15We expect players
26:15To perform at this level
26:17And you can measure against that
26:19So when you're using a shotgun
26:21Or a sniper rifle
26:22You can say
26:22Look it's over or under indexing
26:24Against what you'd expect
26:25And that's how you deal with that
26:26And believe me
26:27Every time we increase
26:29A shotgun's power
26:30Or decrease a shotgun's power
26:31People show up
26:32And knock on the door
26:33And they're quite angry for a day
26:35They actually just yell
26:35That's actually very interesting to me
26:38Because what you're talking about
26:39Is that basic fundamental skill level
26:42That you are developing for
26:45Isn't static
26:45It's kind of constantly moving
26:47And you have to be responding
26:48To that all the time
26:49It does change over time
26:50Now we try to set that base
26:52For the development
26:53Right
26:53You have to set a baseline
26:54For the development
26:55And you're only working
26:56And playing with
26:57Mostly other developers in QA
26:58So you have a limited amount
26:59Of data
27:00Right
27:00There's good players
27:01And bad players
27:01Even within our own building
27:02It's a very big studio
27:03Why did you look at me
27:04When you said bad players
27:06But over time
27:07When the game comes out
27:08And you do
27:09And we're very fortunate
27:10That there's a lot of people
27:11Who play
27:11So over time
27:13It absolutely does changes
27:14And you do have to adapt
27:15To those changes over time
27:16But the truth is
27:17Something will climb out of
27:19Or into a power band
27:20That we don't expect it
27:21And we have to make the change
27:23And it's controversial every time
27:25Right
27:25But we will make that same decision
27:26Every time
27:27Because it's the right thing
27:27To do for the game
27:28How do you anticipate
27:29The public beta
27:30In Black Ops 3
27:32Affecting that whole process
27:34So what the public beta
27:36Really does
27:36Is it actually amplifies
27:37The amount of information
27:38We have to measure
27:39If the things are performing
27:41The way that we want
27:42So it's actually fantastic
27:44As a game designer
27:45And developer
27:46It's the best thing
27:47That you can
27:47You want that
27:48You want to put the game
27:49In the best possible position
27:51And you don't want to guess
27:53I don't want to guess
27:54If it's balanced
27:55I want to know
27:55If it's balanced
27:56Yeah
27:56Super interesting to me
27:57As like a math
27:58And statistics nerd
27:59To see what that
28:01Must look like
28:02When you take
28:02This sample
28:04And compare it
28:06To this sample
28:06And hope that
28:07Your basic metrics
28:09Kind of line up
28:10In the same way
28:11Yeah
28:11So fortunately for us
28:13This is the third
28:14Of the Black Ops games
28:15So we've been building up
28:16The analytics over time
28:17Building up the dashboards
28:18Over time
28:19The good thing is
28:20I don't have to guess
28:21Yeah and the game
28:22And as you said
28:23We've been doing this
28:23For a while
28:23So each time the game
28:24Is the engineers
28:25Have instrumented our code
28:27Better each time
28:28We always learn something
28:29It sounds like
28:30A lot of it's numbers
28:31Some of it is actual feel
28:33Sure
28:34As well
28:34There's that
28:35There's that
28:36It's already in science
28:37It really is
28:38You can't just rely on the numbers
28:39It's all about how it feels too
28:41On the campaign side
28:42It's you know
28:42Because we have a greater latitude
28:44Because we can customize
28:45What's coming at you
28:46And when it's coming at you
28:47Right
28:47And even though
28:48Now we have our new AI system
28:49Which then is
28:50Far more intelligent
28:51And has more
28:51Emergent behavior
28:52In terms of how it moves
28:53Around the space
28:54And we had to create that
28:55Because now with four players
28:56Emergent equals unpredictable
28:57Of course
28:59But here's the thing
29:00Sometimes we want you
29:01To be overwhelmed
29:02The MP
29:03You know
29:03It's a configuration
29:04For a campaign
29:05It's like
29:05Okay I'm going to put you
29:06In a situation
29:06Where you do need
29:07To have a shotgun
29:08Or I'm going to put you
29:08In a situation
29:09Where it's more advantageous
29:10To have the sniper rifle
29:12Deliberately at that moment
29:13In time
29:13Yeah
29:14The AI doesn't complain
29:15If the guns are overpowered
29:16It does not
29:17It does not
29:18Maybe
29:18Maybe you need to work
29:19On an AI
29:20That just complains
29:21About everything you do
29:22Sends us tweets
29:23Black Ops 3
29:24Is effectively going to be
29:25Three games
29:26Coming out all
29:27You know
29:27At one time
29:28You're developing in parallel
29:31Inevitably
29:32You have to overlap
29:33At places
29:34So how do you allocate that
29:35Fortunately
29:35The development
29:36You know
29:38It's a complex development
29:39There's over 300 developers
29:40Working on it
29:41Just inside of a Treyarch
29:42And that doesn't include
29:42All the talented contractors
29:44We work with
29:45And things like that
29:45In the outside world
29:47And it has to be orchestrated
29:48It's a very complex production
29:51Where we try and make sure
29:54That each part of the game
29:55Is getting the resources
29:56At the right time
29:57That it needs
29:57And then sometimes
29:58It's just an all out brawl
29:59No
30:02It is definitely difficult
30:04At times
30:04I mean
30:04We run into it
30:05Quite often
30:07Where each part of the team
30:09Actually has the need
30:10For the same resources
30:11And you know
30:12Honestly
30:12I got a team of
30:14Honestly
30:15The hardest working people
30:16I've ever known
30:17Who have
30:18Done as much as they can
30:20To make sure
30:20That no part of our game
30:22Sort of goes without
30:23But it is a team
30:24That's been making this game
30:25Now for a long time
30:26And so
30:26Those moments of contention
30:28You know we mentioned before
30:28About the limitations
30:29Forcing you to make
30:31You know
30:31Good decisions
30:31Right
30:32Yes
30:32Those contentions
30:33I think also do that
30:35Right
30:35You have these moments
30:35Where you know
30:36MP or zombies
30:38Or campaign
30:38Are kind of
30:38Struggling for an asset
30:40So then the group
30:41Has to come together
30:41And say
30:42You know what
30:42This is kind of thing
30:43Something we should standardize
30:44This is something we should have
30:45Across all three modes
30:46And so
30:47As a byproduct of that
30:50I feel we've kind of
30:51Got a greater synergy
30:52Between all three now
30:53So that is only a benefit
30:54For the end consumer
30:55Because what they'll
30:56See is a common language
30:58And interface
30:58That they're moving through
30:59And that's been powerful
31:01Because Black Ops 3
31:02Is finally all three
31:04Of those games
31:04That you talked about
31:05Campaign
31:05Co-op campaign
31:06In this case
31:07Zombies
31:07And multiplayer
31:08Coming together
31:09To be one online game
31:10So from a game design
31:11Point of view
31:11We are integrated
31:13More so than
31:14The previous two games
31:15In the sub-franchise
31:16For sure
31:16And it really sets the tone
31:18For I think
31:19Where Treyarch can go
31:19And there's ideas
31:21That come out of that too
31:22For sharing
31:22Just you know
31:23Somebody might make
31:24A mechanic
31:25Or a weapon
31:26For a specific
31:27Type of level
31:28Or encounter
31:28In campaign
31:29That might inspire
31:30Some new idea
31:31In multiplayer
31:31That we hadn't thought of
31:32At a systems level
31:33And get it a little bit more
31:35So it can work in a sandbox
31:36Type of setting
31:37And then that gets
31:38Then transferred back over
31:39To the campaign use
31:40And so there's a lot
31:41There's a lot of back and forth
31:42There's a lot of sharing
31:42And there's a lot of that
31:44Kind of cross-pollination
31:45That comes out of it
31:46And still equally creative
31:47On their own merits
31:48It's not forced
31:49We don't shove it down
31:49Anybody's throats
31:50In any way
31:51If it makes sense
31:52For the game
31:52We do it
31:52We talk about it
31:53Sometimes they're painful
31:54Conversations
31:55Sometimes they're easy
31:55It's turning into
31:56Like a melting pot
31:57I mean
31:57Especially we're in our
31:58Kind of last stages
31:59Right now
32:00Development
32:00But it's very much
32:01A melting pot
32:01Of things moving
32:02Because as things
32:03Become finalized
32:04There's a fluidity
32:05In the system
32:06Because
32:07As Dave mentioned
32:07Everything's connected
32:08Together
32:08The thing that's just
32:09Really nice right now
32:10Is that
32:11There is that freedom
32:12To do it
32:12I can't think of
32:13A specific example
32:13Off the top of my head
32:14Oh you got one
32:15So Black Ops 3
32:17Multiplayer has a new
32:18Feature called
32:18Specialist
32:19Which is
32:19Each character
32:20There's nine characters
32:21You can play with the game
32:22You can unlock them
32:23As you progress
32:24Through the multiplayer
32:25Experience
32:26Each one has their own
32:27Voice
32:27Their own personality
32:28Their own backstory
32:28Their own unique look
32:30And I would say
32:31That the specialist feature
32:33Would not have existed
32:33If we hadn't spent
32:35So much time
32:36Trying to build
32:37Those kind of
32:37Archetypal
32:39Characters for the campaign
32:40That early day
32:41You know
32:41We've never really
32:42Built fiction into
32:43Multiplayer before
32:44This is kind of a new
32:45It's a new sort of
32:46Layer for us to add
32:47Into multiplayer
32:48And just how much time
32:50We developed
32:51The backstory
32:52Of the world
32:52The world building
32:54Of our game universe
32:55Allowed us to sort of
32:56Pluck these kind of
32:57Interesting parallel stories
32:59That weren't necessarily
33:00Directly happening
33:00In the campaign
33:02But they were happening
33:02In the world around that
33:04And it was just like
33:05Hey there's a lot of
33:06Really cool ideas here
33:07That we can go to
33:08Create these awesome characters
33:09As a storyteller
33:10It makes my heart sing
33:11That there's more narrative
33:12Coming into the multiplayer
33:12Yeah of course
33:13And the same way
33:14Likewise with
33:14Systems kind of
33:15More systems kind of
33:16Coming into the campaign
33:17The cyber core stuff
33:19And co-op campaign
33:20Is very multiplayer
33:22In a way right
33:23Being able to load out
33:24And take the choices
33:25And pick them
33:25And take it in
33:26And so the battle
33:27Plays differently
33:27Based on those things
33:28It has been such
33:29An incredible pleasure
33:30To talk with all of you guys
33:32I
33:32Boy I have so many
33:33Things I want to talk
33:33To you about
33:34But I'm real excited
33:37I hope everyone at home
33:39Has enjoyed this
33:41Black Ops 3 ships
33:43When?
33:43On November 6th
33:47I love that you can specialize
33:49That's great
33:50I've always liked that
33:52Yeah
33:52Something we've been
33:53Trying to figure out
33:53How to do for a while
33:54Yeah
33:55We have this
33:55Create a class feature
33:57That is just
33:57You know
33:57It's just sort of
33:58Ingrained in Call of Duty
33:59At this point
34:00Because it gives players
34:01Customization over there
34:02Class loadouts
34:03It defines their play style
34:05Basically
34:05Yeah
34:05And with that kind of system
34:07It's so flexible
34:08And open ended
34:09That you can't take that away
34:12You have to always have that
34:13But we like these
34:14You know
34:14Kind of RPG sort of elements
34:16These archetypal
34:18Decisions that players
34:18Would have to make
34:19In the game
34:20And so
34:20We've always kind of
34:21Played with the idea
34:22We've never really figured out
34:23How to do it right
34:24It's one of the hard parts
34:25About working on a franchise
34:26Right
34:26Give me more
34:27But don't take away
34:29Change it
34:30But don't change it too much
34:31Right
34:31It's one of the unique challenges
34:32Of working on such
34:33An established franchise
34:34It is so freaking hard
34:35To find that balance
34:37Like well
34:38Yeah you know what
34:38That's actually a legitimate thing
34:40That maybe we should think about
34:41And nothing we do
34:42Is going to be good enough
34:43For this guy
34:44Yeah
34:44And you have to live
34:45With yourself with it
34:46You have to live with yourself
34:47When you upset that dude
34:48You know
34:49But keep going
34:50Yeah
34:50Those guys
34:51The vocal minority
34:52They are very vocal
34:53Yeah
34:54But you can't have one
34:54Without the other
34:55You can't like
34:56You can't just get
34:57All the good passion
34:58Yeah
34:58Passionate
34:59Well I mean
35:00Passion is passion
35:01Right
35:01You know
35:01Like that's great
35:02PlayStation
35:03Ready
35:03It's great
35:03Yeah
35:04opt-o
35:04Would you like
35:04A
35:05OK
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