- 2 giorni fa
Marina Gamberini si è trovata coinvolta in uno dei capitoli più terrificanti della nostra storia collettiva. Quando aveva vent’anni lavorava come impiegata in una società che aveva la sede all’interno della stazione di Bologna. Il 2 agosto del 1980 Marina è alla stazione quando alle dieci e venticinque una bomba con ventitré chili di esplosivo, nascosta nella sala d’aspetto di seconda classe, esplode uccidendo ottantacinque persone.
2015.08.01 | La Tredicesima Ora |06| Marina Gamberini | Carlo Lucarelli [HQ RaiPlay] Le scelte che hanno cambiato la vita 01_08_2015
2015.08.01 | La Tredicesima Ora |06| Marina Gamberini | Carlo Lucarelli [HQ RaiPlay] Le scelte che hanno cambiato la vita 01_08_2015
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00:04There are stories that hurt, they hurt those who listen to them, but above all they hurt
00:09to those who tell them. They are stories experienced firsthand, which leave wounds that
00:13they don't heal, but always reopen, with every image, with every word, with every memory
00:19that brings them back to the surface. Those who listen to them because they're told them and don't want to hear them anymore
00:23because they hurt too much, he can cover his ears and even sing like children do.
00:27But whoever tells them because they have them inside, then he can't do anything about it, they are there
00:32and sooner or later they come back to the surface. Here, this is the story of a woman who had inside
00:36a very bad story, one of the worst you can imagine and which at a certain point
00:41she made a choice. Her name is Marina.
00:44How hard it is. I can't, I can't, I have all this stuff dragging me out, I can't do it.
01:11Thank you all.
01:29It arrived that morning in the mail, a little square package, a padded envelope.
01:56Marina found it when she returned home from work and was employed at the municipality of Bologna.
02:02A package, even if you know what's inside, is always a bit of a mystery.
02:08Unwrap it, open it by scratching the flap that closes it or by tearing the paper directly
02:12It's a surprise anyway. Marina knows what's inside that package, but she doesn't imagine that her surprise will actually be...
02:20big.
02:24It's a video cassette, it also has the logo of a Swiss television on it and in fact it's the recording of a documentary
02:31broadcast on television.
02:35Marina was waiting for that box. Usually, when she gets home from work, she prepares lunch, but she wants to see it right away.
02:42that documentary.
02:44It tells the story of three women and one of them is her, Marina.
02:46The women talk, she talks too, and as she listens to them and listens to herself, Marina suddenly begins to understand.
02:53Here, this is our thirteenth hour, the hour when everything changes.
02:582.30pm on a day like any other in November 2009.
03:02Let's go back and try to understand why.
03:15Usually at two in the morning, if you don't have a night job or you're out having fun, you sleep.
03:20But for Marina, sleeping has never been easy, or rather, it hasn't been easy anymore.
03:25Not before, before she slept, more or less well depending on her physical condition or her mood, like everyone else.
03:31people.
03:32But now it's much more difficult.
03:39Because now, at this moment in our history, Marina is no longer just a person.
03:45Here, when she was still a person, more than 30 years ago, Marina was 20 years old and a happy girl.
03:55And my father loved to say, too, when he had to talk about his daughter,
04:00that his daughter was like him, that she liked company,
04:04and he needed company.
04:06And I was a girl, I was an only child, I was doing great.
04:14Furthermore, I was 20 years old, so I had been working for a while, I was starting to have some financial independence.
04:23So that was the time when I could start making some plans.
04:33She used to work as a worker in a company that produces toast bread and cakes, but it was a job that she didn't like.
04:38she liked it.
04:39Harder and more tiring than it seems, meanwhile.
04:42And then it was not very interesting, for someone like her who had attended the school for community child care assistants,
04:48and that he hoped to go and work with small children.
04:53Then here comes a good opportunity, a job at Cigar,
04:56which is a company that manages buffets and restaurants like the one at Bologna station,
05:01with the bar, the kiosks on the first platform and the trolleys,
05:04which also sell hot lasagna to travellers who don't want to get off the trains.
05:11Marina works there, in the offices above the restaurant.
05:14A nice office job that she really likes for a number of reasons,
05:18apart from the fact that it is more comfortable and interesting than the factory one,
05:21that Marina's father also works at the station as a forklift driver,
05:24and which includes the use of the restaurant for the lunch break, where the food is excellent.
05:31Eating at a restaurant table, in short, was a special thing anyway,
05:35which made it seem like something that wasn't even that much of a job.
05:41After lunch we went for a walk on the first platform,
05:46because then we went to get coffee at the bar,
05:48and so when we were doing this walk,
05:53all young, all dressed the same,
05:57we had a bit of this crew look.
06:03Here, they are the colleagues, one of the most beautiful aspects of Marina's work,
06:07more friends than colleagues.
06:09Katia, who is 34 years old and has just had her second child.
06:12Mirella, who is 36 and was supposed to be on holiday with her husband,
06:16but he thought about leaving later.
06:18And then Euridia, who is 49 and who is happy,
06:22because his son finally got a good job.
06:24And Nilla, who is 25 years old and has to get married in a few days and can't think of anything else.
06:30Franca, who is 20 and has only been working at Cigar for 4 months.
06:34And Rita, who is 23 and will soon be getting married too.
06:38All girls like Marina,
06:41cheerful, calm, all in all happy.
06:48The Cigar girls, who work together at the restaurant in Bologna station,
06:54in that very hot beginning of August 1980.
07:12No, it's not easy to sleep, even very late.
07:15There are so many things crowding into Marina's mind,
07:18so many sensations, so many memories,
07:20so hidden inside that she can't even tell them,
07:23but there are shadows, black shadows,
07:26like the one that had overwhelmed her so many years before,
07:29when he was still just a person.
07:32She had seen a black shadow that hid her future,
07:35the healer Marina's mother had gone to a few days earlier.
07:38Because it's not just southerners who are superstitious,
07:41we Emilians and Romagnols are too, and quite a lot.
07:43He wore an old dress and a new one,
07:46and the little woman, as we say here,
07:48he understood everything from the old one and blessed the new one,
07:50because it brought good luck.
07:52But in the old one the little woman sees only a black shadow,
07:55and then he tells her to have the Navy dress put on him quickly,
07:59which is actually an underwear set,
08:01and she doesn't want to wear it to go to work,
08:03if he wears it in the evening to go out,
08:05but her mother insists, and then Marina puts it on.
08:12A black shadow, what do you want me to know?
08:15What do you want me to think about?
08:16Does a twenty-year-old girl like her have a dark shadow in the future?
08:23That morning is a morning like all the others,
08:26waiting at the tram stop,
08:28a coffee before going to work,
08:30the money to be verified for the slips to be paid into the bank,
08:33Nilla talking about the furniture for the apartment she has to buy and she is so happy,
08:37all wearing beige smocks, fitted, with a belt at the waist, like a crew.
08:42No, Marina certainly doesn't think about it in the dark shadow.
08:51And then, suddenly, the black shadow arrives,
08:53because that is not a morning like all the others,
08:56It's the morning of August 2, 1980, it's 10:25 am.
09:13Suddenly, the entire second-class waiting room,
09:17the restaurant, the bar, the entire left wing of Bologna station,
09:20it rises and falls back on itself.
09:23The load-bearing wall of the waiting room collapses,
09:26dragging with it the sheet metal of the shelters and the bricks of the roof.
09:35Flames, metal shards and pieces of concrete streak down the underpass.
09:40They sweep the platform of the first track
09:42and the Ancona-Chiasso special train stopped on one side
09:46and on the other, outside the station, they sweep away the taxis waiting in the square.
09:59The roar can be heard throughout the city.
10:02From hundreds of meters away you can see a column of smoke,
10:05yellow, orange and black, rising from what remains of Bologna station.
10:17It was a blast.
10:1923 kg of explosives, hidden inside a suitcase,
10:22placed on the luggage table in the second-class waiting room.
10:31It killed 85 people and injured more than 200.
10:38The first memories I have are of the moment when I am in the dark, still,
10:53in a situation of very strong discomfort, but in an unreal silence.
11:11Sometimes at night, when you're sleeping, you have such a bad dream that you wake up.
11:16Sometimes it's so loud that you scream in your sleep.
11:19It happens to Marina.
11:20Sometimes, however, you wake up suddenly, lost.
11:23We don't know where we are, where the nightstand is, which way we're turned.
11:26It happens to me.
11:28Well, it happened to Marina too, many years ago,
11:30that morning of August 2, 1980, at 10.25 am.
11:38I thought I was in my bed and...
11:43I don't know, I thought they were a bad dream.
11:45I say, but I'm having a bad dream, now I close my eyes, I sleep again,
11:49because I don't like this feeling, this thing I feel.
12:00There is an unreal silence, like when there is thunder or a loud bang
12:04and for a moment later it seems as if everything, the cars in the city, the birds in the countryside, have stopped.
12:15But Marina isn't in bed, having a bad dream caused by being in the wrong position.
12:20It's not enough to just roll over and go back to sleep.
12:25When the bomb exploded in the second-class waiting room, which is just downstairs,
12:31Marina was sitting in her chair, at her desk, and was counting the money.
12:35The force of the explosion hurled her, the chair and the desk to the other corner of the room,
12:41against a load-bearing beam that collapsed on her.
12:48It remained there, on that single portion of the floor that didn't fly down,
12:53trapped under the rubble and inside the chair,
12:56with his left cheek on the back of his hands, in that unreal silence.
13:02This silence that is there at first then changes, I begin to hear screams,
13:10Then I slowly start to hear the ambulances too.
13:15So at a certain point I understand that I try to move, so I try to change position and I can't.
13:24Then I realize I'm immobilized.
13:32At first I don't even feel any pain,
13:35I mean, I just have this weird feeling,
13:44where I can't...
13:47Then it's clear that little by little I start to investigate a little, right?
13:51That's how my position was.
13:54So I try to move something, I couldn't move anything at all.
14:01The only things I felt were the hands I had placed on my face
14:05and under my hands I felt stones, rocks, like...
14:10There is a question that can be asked to those like me who lived in the Bologna area in those days.
14:15years.
14:15And that's where you were when the bomb went off at the station.
14:19It's a bit like asking an American from the 1960s
14:21where was he when President Kennedy was shot.
14:24And more or less everyone remembers it.
14:47Well, many Bolognese people, many indeed, could have said
14:51I was there, pulling people out of the rubble.
15:02It's an entire city running to its station to do something, to help,
15:06with a passion, courage, and anger that few other places have had in situations like these.
15:11And she finds herself covered in dust, in her shirtsleeves, moving pieces of beams and concrete blocks.
15:20There are doctors who, as soon as they hear about the bomb, turn their car around on the holiday road and go back.
15:26There is the restaurant da Romano which remains open every day and all night to provide food
15:30free to rescuers.
15:32There is also an optician who was present at the station because he says that in case of that kind
15:37the first thing that breaks are the glasses.
15:39And if there's anyone who needs it, he makes it up to them right away.
15:42And he's right, because a German tourist arrives, injured, who has lost his glasses and can't see.
15:46A bomb, an oxygen bomb, urgent!
15:49A bomb, an oxygen bomb!
15:51And there is Torquato Secci, who later became the president of the Victims' Association,
15:56who as soon as he arrives at the station to go to the main hospital, where his son is dying,
16:00he is approached by a taxi driver, who recognizes his lost look.
16:04The taxi driver asks him, "Are you a relative of the victims?" Come with me, I'll take care of it.
16:08And for the whole time you're in Bologna, you can take a taxi; the Bologna municipality will take care of it.
16:19That morning, Marina's father is also at the station.
16:22He was at home because he had worked the night shift as a forklift driver.
16:25Then his brother calls him and tells him about the bomb.
16:28Then Mr. Giovanni jumps on his scooter and runs to the station and sees him immediately,
16:32that where his daughter works there is a pile of rubble.
16:36There were so many screams, then you could actually hear the people's shouts,
16:42maybe you're coming here, help too,
16:46so I understand that I felt this thing where it was a very big thing,
16:53because I realize this is a big deal, you know?
16:58I scream, in my opinion, I was screaming right away, well, I started screaming, but...
17:08Time passed and nothing happened.
17:11I probably, within my possibilities, tried to free myself, to do something...
17:17that I felt, I mean now I don't remember exactly, but I know that at a certain point I was exhausted.
17:26Just something I remember, but look what a shame,
17:29that if they don't find me, that basically I wanted to start a family, basically have children,
17:36and I really realized that actually if someone didn't find me,
17:42this possibility did not exist.
17:46Mr. Giovanni seems to have gone mad, as is right.
17:49He looks for his daughter everywhere.
17:51Also go and see the bus 37,
17:53a public bus that was first transformed into an infirmary
17:56and then, with the white sheets and the windows,
17:59in a large hearse to carry the dead to the various hospital morgues.
18:07Mr. Giovanni is running everywhere like a madman,
18:10but above all he wants to go there, where his daughter worked, to dig.
18:13So he seeks help and first finds a colleague and then a firefighter,
18:18who follow him up there on the rubble of the left wing of the station,
18:22where the Cigar offices used to be,
18:24where all those girls in beige uniforms worked,
18:27like the crew of an airplane.
18:29Then this thing is really a shame, isn't it?
18:32Too bad, I was alive and he can't find me, right?
18:37But at a certain point I evidently couldn't take it anymore,
18:40so I said, okay, I'm patient.
18:43I just said, okay, that's it.
18:45I don't know, I just told myself, okay, that's enough.
18:49Well, it was exactly that moment.
18:50who beat me up
18:55and so the pain was unbearable
19:00and probably also the pain reaction
19:05it made me scream louder.
19:23Marina is down there.
19:24Rescuers begin digging
19:27and she feels the weight off her shoulders lighten.
19:29Then she feels a hand trying to pull her out,
19:32but it's not that easy.
19:33It's stuck under the rubble,
19:35trapped in the chair
19:37and they have to take it apart to take it out,
19:39stiffened in that unnatural position,
19:42so much so that when they put her on the stretcher
19:43they can't stretch it out
19:45and in fact she stayed in there for two hours,
19:47in the dark, in the dust
19:49and with a pain that is now becoming unbearable.
20:04And then something happens.
20:06There is one of the directors of Cigar
20:08which is in front of what remains of the restaurant
20:10and is stopped by a journalist
20:12who wants to interview him.
20:13There is no comment to be made here,
20:15here it would only be necessary to get to the point where you can believe
20:17very fudrati, very things...
20:19But if I don't want to cause a disaster or...
20:21No, no, I don't know.
20:23I don't know and I don't want to know.
20:24because it's better if he doesn't know
20:25because there were six female employees up there,
20:27or five, six, I don't know how many were employed.
20:28And I got them out of him for now.
20:29And I took a woman out from under there,
20:31from the table to home.
20:32From the table to home.
20:34But I'm already myself.
20:35Here, at that moment
20:37Marina passes by on the stretcher.
20:38They made her get off
20:40on the platform of the first track
20:41and they're bringing it
20:42towards the West square
20:43where the ambulance is waiting for you.
20:59I have some flashes because
21:04while they transport me in the ambulance
21:09one of the directors who was there
21:11he calls me by name
21:13because he sees me pass by
21:14so he calls me
21:15so I really remember it
21:19in short, he calls me
21:20and so I got this
21:23this feeling of this moment.
21:26Here, it is right at that moment
21:28when you hear someone calling you
21:30and seems to raise his eyes to the sky
21:31that a photojournalist
21:32arrived at the station
21:34he takes a picture of her.
21:35That photograph.
22:01The photographs speak
22:03they do not represent just a moment
22:05but they're like a frame from a movie
22:07and it's like the images
22:08they moved
22:09before and after
22:10with many emotions
22:11and many thoughts.
22:12Photos of the Bologna massacre
22:14I am like that.
22:22For example
22:23there is one
22:24where there is a woman
22:25who has a headset
22:26and a nurse's coat
22:27and he's smiling
22:28to a little girl
22:29who is on a hospital bed
22:30all scratched and flayed.
22:32the little girl's name is Alessandra
22:34and it's a
22:35of the eighteen children
22:36wounded by the bomb
22:38seven are those dead.
22:39He lost his mother
22:40and the two little cousins
22:41but the woman
22:42he's smiling at her
22:43in such a beautiful way
22:44that transforms all photography
22:46and it makes you think
22:47to me
22:48it makes you think
22:49to that photo
22:50not with horror
22:50but with tenderness.
22:57There is one instead
22:58that I struggle to look at
22:59because it's the photo
23:00by Angela Fresu
23:01who was three years old
23:02and that was right there
23:03in the waiting room
23:04when the bomb exploded
23:05in the suitcase
23:06who killed her
23:07and his mother
23:08and Angela
23:09it's incredibly
23:10identical
23:11to one of my two daughters
23:12who is almost three years old
23:13she too
23:13and her name is Angelica
23:14we every now and then
23:15we call her Angelina
23:16and I imagine
23:17that they called her that
23:18his too
23:19to Angela Fresu
23:20Angelina
23:21and this to say
23:22that's how bombs do it
23:23and that's how they do the massacres
23:24they hit people at random
23:26that you could
23:27even be you
23:45and then there is photography
23:47by Marina
23:47on the stretcher
23:48with eyes to the sky
23:49a photograph
23:50which immediately becomes
23:51in all the newspapers
23:52the symbol itself
23:53of the Bologna massacre
23:54and as such
23:55goes around the world
23:56that is when you see
23:58when you see yourself
24:01it's like every time
24:03you
24:03Meaning what
24:03it's you
24:05there
24:06Therefore
24:07that's it
24:08the thing
24:10for which I have always
24:11had a bad relationship
24:12with that photo
24:13for those who look at it
24:15it's definitely a photograph
24:19how to say
24:20symbolic
24:21that is, it certainly makes
24:23the idea of what is
24:26that tragedy
24:27because in any case it actually happens
24:30I think that
24:31I mean, I looked at it
24:33Yesterday
24:34I looked at it again
24:36and I was scared
24:39even if at that moment
24:41they had found me
24:42but
24:44I was scared
24:46because anyway
24:48I was feeling bad
24:49In short
24:50I was in pain
24:51it was a situation
24:52Where
24:53I was dealing with something
24:55Anyway
24:56that I didn't know
24:57how it ended
24:58so I was so scared
25:01Here you are
25:01it's not just a symbol
25:03of what happened
25:04August 2nd in Bologna
25:05that photograph
25:06maybe together with that other one
25:07of the station clock
25:09with the broken dial
25:10stopped at 10.25
25:11it's still there
25:12or
25:13like the one in the hole
25:14in the floor
25:15for the massacre
25:15of the agricultural bank
25:16in Milan
25:17in Piazza Fontana
25:25that photograph
25:26it's a symbol
25:27especially for Marina
25:28because from that moment on
25:30since they took it out
25:31from under the rubble
25:32on that stretcher
25:33Marina
25:34it is no longer
25:34just one person
25:36a quiet girl
25:37and happy
25:38because from that moment on
25:39Marina
25:40for others
25:41and for herself
25:42it becomes something else
25:43from that moment on
25:44stops being a person
25:45and becomes a victim
25:47you met someone
25:48I started looking at you
25:49and says
25:49but
25:50Mom I've already seen you
25:52Here you are
25:52I was starting to sweat
25:53Why
25:54ah let's see
25:55who now recognizes me
26:19Marina works at the municipality of Bologna
26:21she is an administrative employee
26:23like many other people
26:24although
26:25we said it
26:26since that August 2nd
26:271980
26:2810.25 am
26:29Marina
26:30he is no longer just a person
26:31but a victim
26:32it opened then
26:34the second phase
26:35of his life
26:36and he doesn't imagine
26:37there are still 5 hours left
26:38at the sight of that cassette
26:40that now
26:40it's about to open
26:41a third
26:42but for now
26:43as we are telling it
26:45his story
26:46Marina
26:46he is above all a victim
26:48I really felt
26:49from this experience
26:51undressed
26:53completely undressed
26:54but of my very self
26:56Understood
26:56of what it was
26:58what perhaps
26:59of certainty
26:59of safety
27:00I had put together
27:01in childhood
27:02in adolescence
27:03it's not easy
27:04to be the victim
27:05of a massacre
27:05above all
27:06if you survive
27:07why us
27:08we always think of the dead
27:10and usually
27:10they are those
27:11that are counted
27:1217
27:13for the massacre
27:14of Piazza Fontana
27:148
27:15for that of Brescia
27:172752
27:17in the Twin Towers
27:19in New York
27:19but there are also others
27:21there are relatives
27:27and the friends of the dead
27:28like those
27:29that in Bologna
27:29they wait in front of the morgue
27:31because they have no more news
27:32of a son
27:32or of a wife
27:33and they were called
27:34to recognize a body
27:35but they are sure
27:36which is a mistake
27:37he is on holiday in Gargano
27:38you will not have tokens
27:39to call
27:40it can't be
27:57those that are indicated
27:58Usually
27:59with a number
27:59unspecified
28:00which is preceded by
28:01more than
28:02Instead
28:03how many are there
28:04Exactly
28:04the wounded
28:05of the massacre
28:06from Brescia
28:06102
28:07and those
28:08of the Twin Towers
28:116294
28:11the massacre
28:12from Bologna
28:13it does exactly
28:14218 injured
28:15one of these
28:16it's Marina
28:17with all the pain
28:18the anguish
28:18and evil
28:19that can be brought with us
28:20behind
28:21in a moment
28:21like that
28:22in the hospital
28:23past one
28:24he engraved me
28:25the eye
28:25because I had
28:26the eye
28:26another passed
28:27I had the arm
28:28he's hugging my arm
28:29that is, everyone
28:30those who passed by
28:31what I say today
28:33Thank you
28:33why did they have me
28:34saved the eye
28:35Why
28:35but at that moment
28:36I had a pain
28:37atrocious
28:38Therefore
28:39these were passing by
28:40and they acted
28:41it's not that they did it to you
28:42anesthesia
28:43who were waiting
28:43that I had an effect
28:44Understood
28:45and then
28:46In short
28:46I couldn't take it anymore
28:48Meaning what
28:48so I was almost
28:49angry
28:50Understood
28:50with this genre
28:51leave me alone
28:52because I couldn't take it anymore
28:53skull fracture
28:55abdominal trauma
28:56a deep cut
28:58on the left eyelid
28:59and on the right forearm
29:00abrasions
29:01and bruises
29:02on the lower limbs
29:03post-traumatic shock
29:05navy
29:05he has burnt hair
29:06and the nurse
29:07that assists him
29:08Mrs. Cesarina
29:09must work for a long time
29:11just to free them
29:12the mouth
29:12from the dust
29:13and from the debris
29:14but the evil
29:16it was atrocious
29:17And
29:19probably
29:19Anyway
29:20fear
29:21I do not know
29:22that's where you see
29:23something is missing
29:24that is for what
29:26something is missing
29:27because I
29:28something of a sensation
29:29at the level
29:32physicist
29:32at the level
29:33I have it
29:33but I don't have it
29:35I don't remember it
29:37Therefore
29:40No
29:40it's not easy
29:41to be the victim
29:42survivor
29:43of a massacre
29:44and not only
29:45for physical pain
29:46and the consequences
29:47of the wounds
29:47there is also
29:48something else
30:02he works there
30:03a lot of people work there
30:03to the municipality of Bologna
30:04colleagues
30:06who in addition to being people
30:07who work together
30:08Often
30:08they are also friends
30:09like Marina
30:10many years ago
30:11with the girls
30:12of the Cigar
30:12who were talking together
30:14of the children he had
30:14and future weddings
30:15who went to eat
30:17at the station restaurant
30:18who were walking
30:19on the first track
30:20and Marina
30:21he wondered
30:22what they were
30:22the stories
30:23of travellers
30:23that he met
30:24and if they too
30:25they wondered
30:26who were they
30:26those girls
30:27so beautiful
30:28so cheerful
30:29so happy
30:29that seemed
30:30the crew
30:31of an airliner
30:43while I'm at the hospital
30:45they come
30:46of our colleagues
30:46to visit us
30:47but
30:47sometimes
30:49when I ask
30:50of the others
30:50they tell me
30:51that I am
30:52in another hospital
30:53some
30:53so they were
30:54always a little vague
30:55then you know
30:56at that moment
30:57there was
30:57there was
31:00this physical state
31:02of departure
31:04very serious
31:05why you are
31:05very concentrated
31:07that's why you ask the question
31:09get an answer
31:10and after
31:10it's not that
31:11you were so successful
31:12to make connections
31:20I am
31:22exit from there
31:23devastated
31:26above all
31:27When
31:29I realize
31:30That
31:33there's only me
31:34Therefore
31:35that the others
31:36they all died
31:37there it becomes
31:40that's where it becomes
31:44everything is difficult
31:45Katia
31:46Nilla
31:46Eurydia
31:47Mirella
31:48Franca
31:49and Rita
31:50the girls
31:51of the Cigar
31:51with beige shirts
31:52which made them seem
31:53airline stewardess
31:55death under the rubble
31:57of the left wing
31:58of the Bologna station
31:59all
32:00except her
32:08it's like this
32:09also for Marina
32:10something is coming
32:11which unites
32:12all survivors
32:13to a terrible experience
32:14from the Shoah
32:15to airplane accidents
32:16up to the massacres
32:17like this one
32:17the sense of guilt
32:18of the survivor
32:19Why
32:20me exactly
32:30there is an association
32:31which brings together
32:32the survivors
32:33and relatives
32:34of the victims
32:35of the massacre
32:35of August 2nd
32:36and that beyond
32:37to organize
32:38a demonstration
32:38which is held
32:39every year
32:40on that day
32:41and at that time
32:42in the station square
32:43to remember
32:44what happened
32:45she promoted
32:46of many initiatives
32:47of studies
32:48of proposed laws
32:49of all the initiatives
32:50possible
32:51to obtain justice
32:52and many other things
32:53important
32:54including
32:54also assist
32:55in a certain way
32:56hug
32:57all of those
32:58that have been
32:59involved
32:59from the bomb
33:03Here you are
33:03the sense of guilt
33:04because I do
33:06I'm alive
33:06and they don't
33:07Marina
33:08if he asks for it
33:08when he meets
33:09the children
33:09or the parents
33:10of her colleagues
33:11in meetings
33:12of the association
33:12and it's hard
33:13to be together
33:14they are no longer there
33:15and I'm here
33:16and then
33:17panic attacks
33:18nightmares at night
33:20wake up
33:20suddenly screaming
33:21to curl up
33:22instinctively
33:23in the grip
33:24for a few seconds
33:24to a blind terror
33:26when it explodes
33:26a firework
33:27or a balloon
33:31I understood it
33:32when a friend of mine
33:33wounded in the massacre
33:34he told me
33:35that when it exploded
33:35the bomb
33:36was opening
33:36a can
33:37and that since then
33:38even at a distance
33:39of years
33:40every time
33:40who hears that noise
33:41it freezes
33:42frozen
33:43from a blind terror
33:44No
33:44it's not easy
33:45why the wounds
33:46those outside
33:47sooner or later
33:48somehow
33:48they heal
33:49but those inside
33:49No
33:50they remain in the memory
33:52of the body
33:52even if the mind
33:53he seems to have forgotten them
33:54for example
33:55when I hear
33:56of the detonations
33:57of the fires
33:58special fireworks
33:59I have some
34:00Meaning what
34:01just physically
34:02I curl up
34:03Therefore
34:03I have it
34:04as a memory
34:05but I don't remember it
34:14to be the victim
34:15of a massacre
34:15in Italy
34:16it also means
34:18one more thing
34:18beyond the physical pain
34:20to psychological trauma
34:21in the sense of guilt
34:22and to the memories
34:23it means to be
34:24a piece
34:25of the dark history
34:25of this damned country
34:27involuntarily
34:28to be an element
34:29of those
34:30that we keep calling
34:31improperly
34:32Italian mysteries
34:33it's like being
34:34a person
34:35that is going away
34:36calm about her business
34:37and then
34:38a writer arrives
34:39it takes you
34:39and throws you into his novel
34:41that you know nothing about
34:42you don't know the plot
34:43the style
34:43the message
34:44you're just a character
34:45that ended up there
34:46and that's it
34:52for the Bologna massacre
34:54there are sentences
34:55passed into judgment
34:56who have condemned
34:57as responsible
34:58of the massacre
34:59Joseph Valerio Fioravanti
35:00Francesca Mambro
35:02and Luigi Ciavardini
35:03all belonging
35:04and the NAR
35:04revolutionary armed nuclei
35:06terrorist formation
35:08far right
35:09I won't tell you later
35:10when I realized
35:12That
35:12when I realized
35:14That
35:14the people
35:15that they had
35:18clerk
35:20they were my peers
35:26it was the moment for me
35:28where I started
35:29to think about life
35:30what I wanted to do
35:31Therefore
35:32to decide something beautiful
35:34there were people
35:35who had already decided
35:36to kill
35:36from other people
35:37but in that sentence
35:39there's something else too
35:43there are two high exponents
35:45of the secret services
35:46General Pietro Musumeci
35:47and the coronet
35:48Joseph Belmonte
35:49condemned
35:51together with Licio Gelli
35:52grand master
35:52of the P2 lodge
35:53and to Francesco Pazienza
35:54for misdirection
35:56for having hindered
35:57the investigations
35:57and contributed
35:58to hide the truth
35:59on the Bologna massacre
36:00that even now
36:01remains
36:02at least in court
36:03without a principal
36:04and without a reason
36:07The other thing
36:11unacceptable
36:11is not knowing
36:12not knowing
36:14Why
36:16not knowing
36:17what was it
36:18the project
36:20not knowing
36:21what they had in mind
36:23every year
36:24on the escort
36:25of interviews
36:25revelations
36:26or books
36:27new ones are born
36:28or they come back out
36:29old alternative theories
36:30they were
36:31Palestinian terrorists
36:33why Italy
36:34would have broken
36:34that tacit pact
36:36which allowed him
36:36to move
36:37liberally
36:37about our country
36:38or they were
36:39the CIA and the Mossad
36:40for the opposite reason
36:41it was revenge
36:42American for Ustica
36:43or
36:44the bomb
36:45accidentally exploded
36:46while she was being carried
36:48somewhere else
36:51every time
36:52the massacre
36:52of August 2nd
36:53returns to television
36:54in the newspapers
36:54always with her
36:56Marina
36:56on the stretcher
36:57with eyes to the sky
36:58the symbol
36:58of the massacre
36:59and its victims
37:00it's a thing
37:01that never leaves you
37:03I have never missed
37:05at the demonstration
37:06but
37:07as if it were also
37:09at this moment
37:09sometimes you ask yourself
37:11if to feel better
37:13that is, to not talk about it anymore
37:14so as not to
37:16or to see
37:17if then
37:18maybe your situation
37:19change
37:20and you tell yourself
37:20but maybe I'll try
37:21to pretend nothing happened
37:23so I decide
37:25to leave together
37:25to a friend of mine
37:26for Yugoslavia
37:27and I say so
37:28I'm so far away
37:29even if also
37:30I had the idea
37:31to go back home
37:31I don't have time
37:33also because
37:34we went by car
37:35Therefore
37:35I said
37:36for which
37:37I'm not going there
37:40but
37:41I don't think I'll ever do it again
37:42In short
37:43because in the end
37:46another of the big problems
37:48of this story
37:49it's the sense of guilt
37:52there is
37:53This
37:55This
37:55this symptom
37:57there is
37:57This
37:58this feeling
38:00I call him
38:01sense of guilt
38:02because I don't know
38:02tell you
38:03another term
38:05because probably
38:06it's not a fault
38:07which concerns
38:08what you did
38:09but it's something
38:11That
38:12Therefore
38:13at that moment
38:14In short
38:14when I was there
38:15distant
38:16I said
38:16but how
38:17people died
38:19and I'm not there
38:28Marina tried many times
38:30Before
38:30he was taking psychotropic drugs
38:32but she was always dizzy
38:33always tired
38:34he couldn't climb the stairs
38:35he couldn't do anything
38:36At that time
38:37the therapy
38:38with the ups and downs
38:39and an inner fragility
38:41so whatever
38:42even the most banal
38:43it hurts her deeply
38:46he also tried
38:47to tell his story
38:48to see if it's useful
38:50and if it somehow passes
38:51I've always heard
38:52the need
38:53to do something anyway
38:55but then
38:56at this point
38:57I say
38:57but I'm still here
38:58I have to do something
38:59At that time
39:00there is this project
39:01of the region
39:03where exactly
39:04there is the historical one
39:06what does he do
39:07the historical framework
39:08of the events
39:09and then he needs
39:09of testimony
39:11I had already tried
39:13some time before
39:16to a meeting
39:18that there had been
39:18with the boys
39:19I'll get there
39:20and I say
39:21Well
39:22Hello lads
39:23I am
39:25and that's where it ended
39:26that is, I am
39:27and it didn't come out
39:28plus a thread of you
39:29I couldn't do it anymore
39:30to speak
39:31one day
39:31Marina
39:32he comes home from work
39:33should put on
39:34to cook lunch
39:35but there's that little package
39:36with inside
39:37that videotape
39:38it's a documentary
39:39which talks about three women
39:40that they have suffered
39:41three massacres
39:42very different from each other
39:43that of the
39:44Champs-Élysées
39:45in Paris
39:45of 1961
39:46when the police
39:48shoot and kill
39:49a hundred protesters
39:50that of Luxor
39:51in Egypt
39:52of 1997
39:53when a terrorist attack
39:55kills 62 people
39:57and wounds 26
39:58and that of Bologna
39:59precisely
40:00of 1980
40:01three women speak
40:02and one is her
40:03Marina
40:04so Marina
40:05put the video cassette here
40:07in the VCR
40:08watch the documentary
40:09and suddenly
40:10he's starting to understand
40:14my difficulty
40:16to live
40:17because anyway
40:17when I decided
40:20to do therapy
40:21it was because precisely
40:22it was unsustainable
40:24that is me
40:24at night
40:25I was screaming at myself
40:26that is, it was
40:27there were situations
40:29really heavy
40:30No?
40:30these difficulties that I had
40:33I have always believed
40:35that they were part
40:36of my inability
40:37Meaning what
40:40of the fact that I
40:42character-wise
40:43maybe compared to another
40:45I was more sensitive
40:47weaker
40:48and so I couldn't
40:49also because
40:50they made me believe it
40:51that is, in the sense
40:52than at a medical visit
40:53which he recognized
40:56yes I had
40:57of the disorders
40:58post-traumatic
40:59but in personality
41:01labile
41:01so I always have
41:03believed
41:04of not being
41:05that is, that it was a problem
41:07my
41:07that I was
41:08actually
41:11weak
41:11and then
41:12he couldn't
41:12Then
41:13it reaches me
41:14this box
41:16I listen
41:17these interviews
41:19and I realize
41:21that we tell
41:24everyone
41:24the same difficulties
41:26so at that point
41:28That
41:28that is, I say
41:29but wait a minute
41:30Meaning what
41:31different cultures
41:33different ages
41:35different languages
41:37so also
41:37habits
41:38No?
41:39Therefore
41:39anything
41:40different
41:41and we tell
41:42all the same
41:43difficulty
41:44and I said
41:45no then
41:46it's not possible
41:46then here
41:47it is not
41:48one of mine
41:49difficulty
41:50it's right here
41:51the type
41:51of experience
42:12Here you are
42:132.30 pm
42:14our
42:15thirteenth hour
42:16the time
42:17where everything changes
42:18because it's Marina
42:19that changes
42:20it's a long process
42:21which had begun
42:22Before
42:22and which will continue
42:23even after
42:23but it's at that moment
42:24that she
42:25he is aware of it
42:29it's not her
42:30which is wrong
42:30it's not the only one
42:31that's how it happens
42:33it's a mechanism
42:34and the mechanisms
42:35they can be understood
42:36they can be changed
42:37and they can also be used
42:38even the wounds
42:39that do not heal
42:40they can be cured
42:41and above all
42:42they can be studied
42:43to find drugs
42:45and antidotes
42:45to make sure
42:46that of those wounds
42:47there are no more of them
42:52and so at that moment
42:53Marina
42:54which was previously only
42:55a person
42:56and then a victim
42:57it becomes something else
42:58become a witness
43:00I had to learn
43:02to try to tell
43:04without
43:04as I was telling you
43:06in the third person
43:07that is, looking for
43:07not to go in too much
43:08because otherwise
43:09then I couldn't
43:10Meaning what
43:10I'm stuck
43:11and I can't
43:12the thing is strange
43:14because then I speak
43:15and I also talk a lot
43:17Meaning what
43:17if I leave
43:19I don't hold back
43:19in the meantime, keep quiet
43:20and in the end
43:22I'm finishing speaking
43:23sometimes I get stuck
43:24sometimes I stop
43:25I get lost
43:26anything you want
43:27I finally finish speaking
43:28and I almost say
43:29but
43:29Meaning what
43:30I don't think I said
43:31not even anything
43:32then instead
43:34they reach me
43:35on their part
43:36this morning too
43:38they told us
43:38some beautiful things
43:40so actually
43:41you realize
43:43what do you say no
43:43in short actually
43:45so this thing
43:46serves
43:47a bit
43:50I started to see it
43:51even when
43:52I listen to a witness
43:54Meaning what
43:54I listened
43:55some elderly people
43:57of the Shoah
44:00some that are
44:01survivors
44:02to war
44:03and in fact
44:05I realized
44:05that when I listen to them
44:08that is, actually
44:09has a value
44:10No
44:11that is, it's not like
44:12when it passes
44:13the article
44:14No
44:14it happened
44:15and so
44:16it happens that in Marina
44:17five more people are added
44:18that go around
44:19to bear their testimony
44:21on the massacre
44:21and more are coming
44:23but it's not easy
44:24not even be a witness
44:26why wounds
44:27like those
44:27by Marina Gamberini
44:29they can be cured
44:30they can be told
44:31they can also be made useful
44:33but they cannot be forgotten
44:35there are a lot of people
44:37in the end
44:37he understood that anyway
44:39it has this weight of experience
44:42who tried to put
44:44somewhere
44:46but then you see
44:49maybe just wait a moment
44:51to go out
44:52or needs to go out
44:54I do not know
44:55at the moment in which
44:59they find out that you are
45:00somehow
45:02you were there
45:03arrives in the stories
45:04on the other side too
45:05our story ends here
45:08which as always
45:09it seems like the story
45:10of a single person
45:11and instead
45:11it's the story of many others
45:13like Marina
45:13and not only
45:14it's the story of an entire country
45:16like ours
45:16and it becomes more and more
45:18the history of the world
45:19and I would like to finish it
45:20with a recommendation
45:21if we happen to meet her Marina
45:24and we recognize it
45:25maybe even thanks
45:26to this story
45:27let's love her
45:28and let's listen to his story
45:30and we use all the emotion
45:31that communicates to us
45:32to make sure
45:33that of stories like this
45:33there are no others
45:35but please
45:36let's not ask her anymore
45:37if it's her
45:37the girl in the photograph
46:22and the girl in the photograph
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