00:00Let's stay with that story and talk to Hosuk Limakiyama, director of the European Centre for International Political Economy.
00:06Good to see you back on the programme, Hosuk.
00:08So we had a little bit there on both sides' impressions of those talks.
00:12What do you see as the main takeaway?
00:15Well, perhaps the main takeaway is that these kind of frictions in the last minute is quite expected.
00:21They've been negotiating now for over a year.
00:25There are rumours that the negotiation has actually been going on for longer than that.
00:30And so far, the negotiation has also centred very clearly on investments, i.e. what kind of opportunities would it
00:38be opening up for China to invest in the United States and vice versa.
00:42Now, of course, with the latest trade frictions and indeed, as we heard now, the Supreme Court ruling in the
00:51United States, trade has come back into the fore.
00:55Well, and it is in the instinct of every trade negotiator that you will never pay for something that you
01:02can pocket for free, basically what the Supreme Court has handed the Chinese.
01:07These negotiations have to restart at some point.
01:09There was some discussion there, wasn't there, about the expansion of U.S. exports to China, particularly around agriculture and
01:17energy products, and the idea raised of a more formal trade coordination mechanism between the two.
01:22Do you think we could actually see some substantial, some tangible progress in these areas?
01:28This is perhaps one of the areas where we could talk about a win-win.
01:33Obviously, soy is a major export product for the United States to China.
01:39China has a demand for not just soy, but also for stable agricultural prices overall.
01:46And similarly, energy, crude oil, has become a major export product for the United States.
01:54And with the recent developments we see now in Iran, China is rightly seeking, one, legal certainty in terms of
02:02what is going to happen with the Iranian volumes, of which 90% of the export is going to China.
02:09And second, in case of continued fighting in the Gulf, they would like to know that there is supply coming
02:18from the United States.
02:19And also, when it comes to these mechanisms that we've been talking about, well, the so-called border of investment
02:26and border trade is very much a common feature in trade negotiations.
02:31Because in the end, things change.
02:35And in like all marriages, you need to have some kind of mechanism where you can settle the difference going
02:41forward.
02:42Traditionally, we call them dispute resolution mechanisms.
02:45But yes, a lot of things are being reinvented now.
02:49So clearly, some issues remain unresolved, export controls, tariffs, trade investigations.
02:55But the Chinese delegation describing these talks as in-depth, candid and constructive.
03:00What do you make of the tone around these discussions?
03:06Well, maybe we have come to the stage where actually table manners and tone really doesn't matter anymore.
03:14The fact of these so-called 301 investigations on forced labor, and we heard the Chinese delegation talking about them
03:22as arbitrary, and this is perfectly understandable.
03:25We are looking at measures against 60 countries, not just against China, but also Scandinavia, Japan, and Korea, and, well,
03:35some countries that arguably have better labor standards than the United States, whereas certain transgressors like North Korea is excluded.
03:44So, yes, this is likely to be challenged in the World Trade Organization, and China is rightly pushing back on
03:53it, as for the time being.
03:55Hoseok, thanks, as always, for your expertise, and thanks for coming back on the program.
03:58Hoseok Lee-Makiyama there from the European Center for International Political Economy.
04:02Hoseok Lee-Makiyama there from the European Center for Internationalbig MacBook Pro Organization.
04:03Lee-Makiyama there by the present European GenevaHoseok
04:03Lee-Makiyama. Thank you.
04:03Amen. I
04:03Thank you. Thank you. It's
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