- 6 minutes ago
Noah Kahan sits down with Billboard's Co-Chief Content Officer Jason Lipshutz and documentary director Nick Sweeney at SXSW 2026 to discuss his deeply personal Netflix documentary 'Out of Body,' opening up about family, mental health, and the vulnerable process of letting cameras into his most intimate moments.
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00:00What's up, guys? I'm Jason Lipschatz. I'm the co-chief content officer at Billboard. I'm here
00:05with Nick Sweeney and the one and only Noah Kahn. The one and only Nick Sweeney, too. I'm sorry. I
00:12didn't mean to say that. We both one and only. Yeah. Thank you guys for coming to the Billboard
00:17House for this discussion about Noah Kahn out of body coming soon to Netflix. I love this project.
00:27We were talking and there are a lot of artist documentaries and this one's really, really
00:33special. So first of all, congrats to you guys on it. Noah, how are you feeling, man? This is a
00:39very
00:39personal project that is about to be unveiled to the world. Yeah, I'm nervous. I feel like being
00:45vulnerable in music is something that's always come really natural to me. I think it was a lot
00:49harder for me to open up in that way, knowing that it would just be an examination of my life
00:54and my
00:55family. And it was hard. I'm definitely nervous. I do feel like anytime I felt nervous about
01:01vulnerability, my mom was telling me this the other day because I texted her. I was like, man,
01:04I'm just nervous for this thing. And she was like, anything that makes you uncomfortable
01:08is probably worth sharing. I think it's important to approach the things that make you feel vulnerable
01:15or scared because a lot of people want to connect with that. And you kind of have to forget about
01:19yourself and think about the person that's watching it that maybe needs that to see that
01:23experience. So I'm excited for people to see it. I'm very proud of it. I know Nick is proud of
01:28it
01:28too. And ultimately, it's just going to be a stressful hour and a half, probably. But there's
01:35lots of laughs. There's moments that I'd love to revisit and some that are harder for me to revisit.
01:39But I think that's what's important about art. It should make you uncomfortable.
01:42How did these conversations start? Tell me the background of this documentary.
01:47Um, yeah. Why didn't Nick go ahead?
01:49Yeah. Well, I mean, I know his music was everywhere and I was aware of that. Um, but
01:57and obviously his, his lyrics are so detailed and cinematic that I was really excited about the
02:01idea of doing a documentary with him. Um, we'd started to have discussions about it, but
02:05for me, what I find the most interesting is like, is somebody going to let me in while they kind
02:12of,
02:12um, like grapple with the big questions in their life. And what I kind of noticed from the very first
02:20discussion that we had about it was that Noel was like, he was really willing to go there. There was
02:24nothing that was off limits. And, um, you know, as we got further and further into filming, I was just
02:30like, I was, I was constantly waiting for him to be like, yeah, I don't want to talk about that.
02:34Or
02:34like, yeah, let's not go there. And it never happened ever. Um, so it kind of came about in this
02:40organic way where we were having these discussions about doing something. And like I said, for me,
02:44the most important thing was just like, is he really going to let me in? And, and he was,
02:48he was fully committed to that. So, um, yeah, it was, it was kind of like a Trojan horse almost
02:55because I thought it was kind of just going to be documenting tour. And then I knew like,
02:59the second you meet my family, the second you meet my dad or my siblings, my mom, like it's,
03:03you're going to want to talk to them. And as we kind of dug more into what my family life
03:07looked like
03:08in the wake of everything that was going on, I think it started to, I started to realize that
03:12it was going to be a deeper thing. Uh, and I was really excited to explore that. I feel like
03:18I do
03:18that a lot in my music, but it's hard to show somebody to the world without, you know, really
03:22capturing it. And I think Nick was incredibly grateful. I'm sorry, incredibly gracious, uh,
03:26and kind asking some difficult questions, but, um, it made it feel really natural. And I think the
03:33result kind of has a lot of truth in it for that process. Yeah. I was going to ask like
03:37Nick,
03:38what you kind of set out to capture at first and how that mission evolved. And it sounds like it
03:44was
03:44going to be a much more like tour. This is a whirlwind career moment for Noah. And then it was
03:50like, Oh, I, I need to spend a lot of time with his family and his friends and where he's
03:55from.
03:56Yeah. I mean, it's like you said, it, Noah's music is incredible and he's an amazing artist
04:04and his, his lyrics are so beautiful. Um, and obviously I was really excited about the
04:10idea of making a music focused film, but like Noah said, it's kind of like the more I saw,
04:15the more I was like, we have to cover that. We got to cover that. Like, are you cool? And
04:19then Noah was really open to it. I mean, they're really, they're, they're complicated things.
04:23And I think it's interesting that you kind of knew that it was like, I, maybe you could
04:30see it in my eyes when it's like, we were having these discussions, like asking these
04:33questions. I think, um, it's such a complicated process because I think for somebody like Noah
04:39opening his life up, um, in the way that he does in this film, I mean, we really go very,
04:45very deep. Um, I think that it evolved in this way where I was just very honest and upfront
04:52with him, like, Hey, I'm really interested in this for this reason. Like for example,
04:56there are, uh, things around his family, for example, Noah wanting to be a better son to
05:01his dad and, and dealing with, with things around his parents. And I was going through
05:06a lot of that stuff at the time. And I remember we would have these discussions where I was
05:09like, Hey, I find this really interesting because I'm going through some of it. And a lot
05:13of other people are going through it at the same time. And, you know, how do you feel
05:16about us exploring that? And, and Noah was really open about it. So in terms of like
05:20where it kind of started, which was, I don't want to say just a music doc, because it would
05:26have been an incredible documentary, even if all we were covering was this like incredible
05:31tour and, and Noah's music, but it, it evolved into so much more than that. And I'm so grateful
05:36for that.
05:37Yeah. I think it's kind of like therapy. Like for a long time I went to therapy and I just
05:41like said enough to feel like I was being vulnerable. And I think I was guarding a lot
05:45of things. And I think the documentary process kind of started like that. You're just trying
05:50to protect these things that you hold close to you because you want some stuff for yourself
05:54when you kind of give a lot to the world. I think for me, I give a lot of myself
05:58to my
05:59music and I sometimes feel like that should be enough. But as Nick started to ask more questions
06:03and as I started to kind of contextualize like what it was looking like on camera, I started
06:07to see it as like a really healthy thing for our family and then getting to watch it back
06:12with, with the family was like really therapeutic for us. And I said, I said this before, but
06:17I wish everybody could see the way that they treat each other and treat themselves on camera
06:22because it's really eyeopening. And I think it was like a healthy thing for us to be able
06:26to watch how we interact. There's so much love there and there's so much kindness in our
06:30family and getting to see that like reaffirmed our belief in ourselves, I think for a lot
06:34of, for a lot of ways. Some of the, the most powerful kind of quiet moments in the documentary
06:39involve your dad and your mom and your siblings, you know, and, and part of it is you discussing
06:46your songwriting process and how much they were aware of that you were sharing about your family
06:52life and how, and kind of grappling with that. I'm curious as to like making that leap for them
06:57going from songwriting subject to, Hey, you're part of this documentary now. Like, Hey,
07:03we're going to like go through old photos. I'm going to be in the back. We're going to have a
07:07camera in the backseat of our car while you're driving with your brother. Like, what was that
07:12like? Yeah. I think a big fear I had for, for my family was like, Hey, I signed up for
07:17this kind
07:17of thing when I got into music and when I started to tour and do interviews and be like publicly
07:23available. But you know, they didn't, they didn't ask for extra attention. They didn't ask for songs
07:29about their divorce to be played for hundreds of thousands of people. Uh, but I did it anyways.
07:33Um, so it was complicated. I think I had a lot more fear for it than they did. I thought
07:39they
07:39were all really brave and open, um, that they really let Nick in. And I think they also understand
07:44that they're a fundamental part of, of the story that I've told to my music. Um, and they were very
07:50willing. I think it created a lot of conversations between me and my family that maybe we wouldn't have
07:55had without the impetus of like a documentary being made about me. And so I think on the whole,
08:00it was a good thing. Like those hard conversations might never have happened or might have taken
08:04longer to happen. And so having a documentary crew be here asking, you know, questions about
08:08my dad, his accident, or my parents' divorce or our childhood, like it, it opened the door to like a
08:16lot of healthy conversation behind the scenes. And, um, I'm really grateful for that.
08:20Nick, um, I'm curious, uh, big kind of driving point of the doc is this kind of juxtaposition.
08:26No, you actually describe it as going from a hundred to zero at one point in the doc of like
08:33Fenway lifelong dream of playing this stadium. And then the next day in your backyard, pushing a doc
08:41out, helping your mom out. Like, what was it like kind of capturing that juxtaposition of like
08:45these enormous moments versus like the absolute like quiet, like, because you know, most, most
08:52docs, most films exist in one mode or the other. It's very loud or it's very quiet. You have like
08:57constantly kind of oscillating.
09:00Yeah. I mean, it was bonkers. Like, like you said, it's like Fenway and it's, it's 40,000 people
09:07screaming and like fireworks and just, it's like every single like stimuli that you could possibly
09:13imagine. And then the next day, like Noah is making a weird, like coffee, like, and my ears
09:20are still ringing with so much cinnamon. He's making this really strange drink and, and like,
09:26and all of our ears were still ringing from the night before. And it's like literally just
09:30after Fenway. And when that stuff was happening, I was like, we have to include it in the film the
09:33way that it happened. Like we have to, cause normally in a film, you kind of like smooth out
09:37those edges and you make the transitions slow and kind of like get the audience accustomed to.
09:42And I was like, no, we just have to go straight from like screaming at Fenway. I mean, Noah's
09:46off to Fenway. We're in the van with him and he's in this like completely transcendent state.
09:52I mean, it was part of what inspired the title out of body. He's, he's like having an out of
09:55body experience. And then like you say, seconds later in the film, he's like making this weird
10:00drink with so much cinnamon. I mean, it's, it's so much cinnamon. It's like, it was too much.
10:04It would make me sneeze. Yeah. Yeah. It was, um, it's a, it's a, it's a perfect encapsulation of,
10:12I think what tour is like for a lot of artists. I think that was on the broader scale outside
10:16of
10:16my story. Like what touring really looks like for a lot of artists is people screaming and singing,
10:20and then you're just on your own. And we, we cover a lot of that in the documentary of how
10:24that,
10:25that kind of the, the vertigo from that is really hard to deal with. And I'm really glad that
10:29Nick, that you captured that because I think it speaks to an experience that a lot of, a lot of
10:34artists have, and it'll help the audience understand the loneliness of that moment, you know, of having
10:39everybody and then nobody. It can be really hard. And I think we explored that in the doc and it's
10:42done really beautifully. You know, I don't want to spoil, um, specifics, but you talk about things in
10:48this documentary that you've never talked about. You, you talk about issues and, and challenges that
10:52you've never talked about. Um, when you did that, when you kind of had those conversations,
10:59was that freeing afterward? Were you, was it almost like an exhalation of like, wow,
11:04I actually kind of finally got this out there. It was absolutely freeing in those moments. Um,
11:10just talking about things makes it so much easier and smaller, you know, like same thing as therapy.
11:15Like you leave and you realize that your problems are hard, but they're, you can overcome them and you
11:19can talk about them. It's been really hard to see it and to know that other people are going to
11:24see
11:24it. Uh, it doesn't feel as therapeutic. It kind of, you start to get scared. I'm almost as excited
11:29for it to be out so people can, can know. Um, but it was, it was important for me to,
11:34to talk about
11:35because I just know that I cannot be alone in all those things. I hope I'm not alone in all
11:41those
11:41things. And I hope that when people see it, they, um, that people reach out and share their own
11:46stories or are more inspired to talk about it themselves. Um, it's, uh, it's hard to see yourself
11:53like that. I think what was really hard to see was how consumed I was by all of it. And
11:59there's
11:59all these beautiful people and lovely things happening around me. And I can just see myself
12:03with this tunnel vision to this pain and anxiety that I was feeling. Um, that part is hard, but I
12:09know that it'll, I'll be better for having it out in the world. And I think other folks might,
12:12might benefit from it too. I think that last part is absolutely true. I think a lot
12:16of people are going to get a lot out of this. Um, the new album is, is kind of coinciding
12:21with this documentary, uh, which seems like it kind of happened by happenstance, right?
12:26It just, it wasn't like a, the documentary will lead into the album. Like how did this
12:30all happen? Yeah, I think it really was just good timing. Um, but I also think the documentary
12:36happened kind of up about up until the end of this really whirlwind tour experience. And then
12:42I had like six or seven months where I just wasn't really doing anything. Uh,
12:46and I was giving myself time to do as little career stuff as I could. I just wanted to have
12:52my own space for a second. Um, and seeing the documentary during that time as it was edited
12:58and processed and, um, kind of became what it is now. I think I started to see the shape
13:02of that story come into my songwriting as I started to make music again. Um, and a lot
13:08of what happens in the documentary and what's talked about the documentary is, is further explored
13:12on the album. And so it became this really, really great vehicle for telling a story visually and then
13:17telling a story musically. And I think they coincide in a way that's symbiotic and really
13:21beautiful. Yeah. I was saying, uh, before this panel that like one of my favorite things about this
13:26documentary is it doesn't feel like promo. It's not like buy my new album. And I'm, I'm curious,
13:31Nick, like the decision to very kind of organically suggest that new music is coming and he's working
13:39on new music and, but also not kind of make that a focal point, you know? Yeah. I mean,
13:45we had no idea that we would be capturing the process of making a new album. Like if anything,
13:50I thought the opposite would happen and that this would come out and then maybe like a year later,
13:55you know, 18 months or two years later, an album would be out and these two things would kind of
14:01exist as like very separate things. And, and that's not what happened. Um, and I would have been so
14:07happy if all we got was like the incredible, crazy tour and stuff with, you know, Noah's family,
14:14I would have been like, wow, what an incredible film it already is. And then to, in addition to
14:17that, have some of the process of this next album is such a privilege. Um, one thing, I mean, I
14:26actually have been wanting to ask you about this one, Noah, a place that is truly sacred for Noah is
14:32the studio, um, for any artist, but I think for Noah in particular, because he's so focused and
14:41his artistic process is, um, like, it's so detailed. And so when it came time to, to film some of
14:48the
14:48things in the studio, um, there's a new song that Noah is, is writing and kind of doing the first
14:54drafts
14:55of. And in the studio, I was trying to be very careful to not disrupt your creative process.
15:02And I remember you were recording and you closed your eyes and you know, like those videos on the
15:07internet where there's a cat and then you go around the corner and then you come back and the cat's
15:11closer. And it was like, it was like that, like Noah was performing that he was like recording it.
15:17And then he'd shut his eyes and then I kind of stepped closer with a camera and then he'd close
15:21his
15:21eyes again and then I get closer. And then at this certain point, like my camera's right here.
15:25And he's got his eyes closed and then he opens them. And I was like, I was like, were you
15:29hoping
15:30I wasn't going to be there? Like, were you, is this like your worst nightmare? What's that?
15:35Like, he's like, Oh, didn't you leave? Exactly. But, and then he gives this like extraordinary,
15:41like vocal, like it's, it's this incredible belt, you know, you've seen it and, um, you guys
15:47will obviously see it soon. And, uh, yeah, I mean, it was just, it was just this incredible
15:52thing to capture. It was, yeah, that was closer to the end too. So I think I kind of gotten
15:56used
15:56to you slinking around, uh, but you, it's all trust. Like this experience required a lot of
16:04trust. I have a hard time, you know, letting people into my world. Sometimes I like to have
16:09my music be my music and then my life be my life. And it was hard to merge those two
16:12things,
16:12but, uh, you did an amazing job of making me feel safe, even though I knew eventually
16:18you'll be out in the world, but to make that process happen, like we had to establish a
16:22lot of trust. And I think that the music studio is a very sacred place for me. Um, but you
16:28allowed me that space, you captured it in a way that allowed me to kind of almost enhance
16:31the experience. And, um, I was happy to have you in there to see that because it's a totally
16:35different world than what most people are used to seeing is me and doing shit like this
16:38or me on stage or me talking about my ass on social media. So it was, it was really
16:43special to kind of share that moment with you. Uh, it's so funny you bring that up because
16:49like, I, and I, I want to, I want to clarify that like there are a, there's a lot in
16:53the
16:53documentary that's very funny too. And like, obviously anyone who's, who's seen you perform
16:57knows that you're hilarious and you're self-deprecating and like my, one of my favorite moments
17:02speaking of the, the kind of songwriting process and like you working through it, there's
17:06a scene where you're sitting on a toilet. And so he's sitting at like the toilet seats
17:12down, but he's sitting on the toilet. He has a notepad and a pen out and he's just kind
17:18of staring at it for a couple seconds and your camera lingers on it. And after a couple
17:23of seconds, he just kind of looks toward the camera. He goes stupid. Yeah. There's a lot
17:29of that. There's a lot of like kind of humor within like struggling to figure out what to
17:34right. Yeah. I think like one thing I've always thought about like depression, anxiety
17:38and pressure, like really there, they can kind of create like a superpower of like self-deprecation
17:44and humor that helps you deal with it. Like knowing my family, we've all struggled with
17:49mental health in our own ways. And like, I think we're the funniest people. Uh, I think
17:52that comes from having empathy and having understanding of the world and seeing beauty maybe in moments,
17:59those light moments you get are so valuable. Um, and I think that does come across the
18:02documentary. Uh, but my sense of humor, I think has always been stemmed from kind of
18:07having to suffer a little bit and just kind of trying to tell things how they are at that
18:11moment. It was like 119 degrees in California. And I was sitting on the toilet, like writing
18:16this just horrible song. And like the camera person was like staring at me and I was like,
18:21there's no way you like that. Like, just tell me it sucks. Like, help me out. Um, what was
18:27it like there, there are also interviews with just people in your hometown of talking about
18:32your hometown and talking about the way you grew up? Like, what, why was that important
18:36to you?
18:36I think what's really important about talking to people from Stratford, from the upper
18:40Valley is not just to give perspective on, you know, what life is like there and what
18:45it's like growing up in a small town, but also the way that that town is always kind of
18:49moved in the same way. And my career has been, obviously it's brought more people there,
18:53but they're still living as people there. This is their home. And my favorite, my whole,
18:57my favorite scene in the entire documentary is when Nick goes and asks all the different
19:01people in Stratford, they listen to my music. They're like, not really. I love it. It's,
19:06it's what I love about Vermont is that it's, it represents just kind of a safe space for
19:10me and this place that feels consistent with all the change in my life. And that was captured
19:15very well. Like this is a place that's been around for hundreds of years. People live there
19:18for hundreds of years. One indie folk singer, songwriter is going to change the whole
19:22architecture of the town. And I thought that was really important to include.
19:25There was one like teenager who was more psyched about the new Duncan.
19:28Yeah.
19:28Then you can hear music. He's like, yeah, it's right there.
19:30Well, somebody goes like, what's your favorite song? This little girl's like,
19:33my favorite Taylor Swift song is...
19:36Yeah. And then, and then the follow-up question is, what's your favorite Noah Kahn song? She's like,
19:40I don't know.
19:44Yeah. It's, it's, it's really cool. And I think I'm always impressed by how natural people are on
19:49camera. It's always been really hard for me, but like my brother, my mom, like my family were all
19:54like stars. Like they come across so naturally. I think they were really able to express themselves
19:58as the people they are. And I think that was really, really helpful for making it feel like a really
20:03real documentary and like a real experience for the audience.
20:06Yeah. Nick, there are, are going to be, how many people are here are big Noah Kahn fans?
20:12Okay. Yeah. A lot of people.
20:13Like some people are like, a lot of super fans who have followed Noah's whole career are going
20:21to see this documentary. What do you hope that they get out of it?
20:25You know, it's such a good question. I kept thinking about this one because I was like,
20:34what would I want? Like when somebody's like finished watching it, what would I want them
20:39to kind of go away and think or do? And I was like, I feel like if people were to
20:44watch it and
20:45then leave and like call somebody that they love or text somebody that they love, like if it was,
20:51I don't know, their parents, like that to me, I feel like this documentary kind of like,
20:55it kind of like hurdles towards that idea in this, like in spoken and unspoken ways. And I think
21:01it would be that. Yeah. There's also this thing that Noah said when he was talking about the great
21:08divide, the song, this idea that it's never too late to mend something. And I think we see a lot
21:14of that in this film. I don't want to spoil it, but we see that process happening in real time
21:20in like kind of explicit ways and in subtle ways. And I think that idea is really powerful and
21:27important. And you don't really expect to see it. Like it's not, I don't, I don't know if that's
21:31what people are expecting when they go into this, but to me, that would be a thing that I would
21:36be
21:37really, really happy if that's what happened after people saw it. Yeah. I think it's like
21:44just the approach towards something that you're afraid of is enough sometimes. Um, there's no like
21:51resolution to every issue you have, but just poking it with a stick, you know?
21:55Well, that was my last question actually, is like, you're gearing up for album release,
22:00huge tour. It feels like through this process of this film, you've figured some things out and
22:06you've, you've found some personal solutions. Like how gratifying is that to kind of come away and,
22:12you know, what, not only watch the documentary, but be like, yeah, this, this, this was helpful.
22:17It's an amazing feeling. It's something that I was experiencing a lot privately in therapy in my
22:22life. And then to have it kind of happen in such a real way, or I'm like literally sitting
22:26next to my mom, like asking her for forgiveness for like exposing things about her life and my music
22:32and those conversations that I really might never have had. Um, it was incredibly cathartic. Uh, I,
22:38I feel like it allowed me to really go into my next, like the writing process for my album in
22:43a way
22:43that felt more honest and felt less guarded. I think it's really opened up a lot of doors for
22:47not just my music and my career, but for the relationship I have with the people that are
22:52in the documentary in my life. And, uh, I don't know, it's, it's felt like the dialogue has been
22:56so open since that. And especially with my dad, like I, you know, we sat on the documentary and I
23:02was like, Oh my God, he's going to freak out. Like he's such a major part. And he's like, love
23:06it,
23:06buddy. Like, that's all he said. I was like, Oh wow. Okay. Like I was expecting like a long
23:10conversation. He's like, I love it. Like I look weird while I'm skiing, but that's it. And so
23:14it was, uh, it was amazing. I feel like my dad and I's relationship has never been better.
23:19Just like getting to hang out with him and, and kind of have cleared this air without having to
23:24like, in a very mass toxic masculine way, we're like, we still haven't really discussed it,
23:28but like he saw it and I know he saw it. And so it's like, I think we're good. Um,
23:33so it's been, it's been really beautiful. I mean, my little brother's here, but I feel like Simon,
23:37I feel like when we watched that as a family, it was like really, I feel like it brought us
23:41together
23:41in a new way. And I thought it was really special. I didn't know Simon was here. I'm
23:44like starstruck. I know. Right. He's great in the doc. There was a scene, there was a scene in the
23:50documentary that Simon, like out of everything that was in there, it was a scene of like,
23:53it was like a still shot of him just gulping and he called it the gulp. And he was like,
23:57you need to get rid of the gulp. That was his one note. It's still in there. Um, I w
24:03I want to thank
24:04you guys for your time. Uh, this was great. And I really, I do truly like congratulate you because
24:10this is a really special project. Um, like I said, at the top, there are a lot of artist
24:14documentaries. Um, this one stands out. Um, so big congrats to you and thank you guys for,
24:19for coming through and having this conversation. Thank you so much for the questions and the
24:23thoughtful, yeah, the thoughtful prompts. And thanks for giving us a chance to talk about it.
24:27And thank you guys all for being here as well. It really means a lot to us. So thank you.
24:32I w and I will say it is not the release date. It's coming out on Netflix. The release date
24:37is
24:37not out yet, but it's being announced soon. Nice. Like soon, eventually, but it, I'm sure
24:45everybody here is going to check it out and, and, and please take the time to do so. Cool.
24:49Thanks again. Thank you.
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