- 5 hours ago
Speaking at the India Today Conclave in Delhi, robotic GI surgeon Dr Anshuman Kaushal, popularly known as ‘Angry Doc’, explains how AI is reshaping healthcare from robotic surgery to diagnostics while stressing that doctors will remain vital for judgement, empathy and patient trust.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00All right then. So we live in times when a lot of us are asking chatbots about what medicine to
00:08take
00:08even before we get to a doctor. No longer the conversation is about whether AI is inside that
00:16OT where you are getting operated. The question is, is there a doctor monitoring that AI?
00:24And also, no longer the question is about whose jobs AI is going to take, but about how will it
00:32fight
00:32misinformation when it comes to health, when it comes to life and death. And I thought who better
00:38than somebody who's a robotic surgeon himself to get down to this conversation with. With me is Dr.
00:45Anshraman. He goes by the name of Angry Doc. A lot of you follow him already on Instagram and listen
00:51to his advice. So lovely to have you over here. Before I start, I just want to tell everybody
00:56sitting over here, all of you have red and green cards on your table right now. Yeah, can you show
01:02me? With yes or no, tell me how many of you in your last one week, say, have checked up
01:11your symptoms,
01:12asked a question, medical question to a chatbot, and then bought a medicine directly without even
01:19referring to a doctor. Okay. Oh, okay. A lot of greens, but also a lot of reds. All right, that
01:30makes
01:30your job a little bit tough. But you are somebody who's actually training the AI. So are you training
01:39the AI so ultimately you don't have to do this anymore? Well, thanks for having me here. That is
01:47true. I am a robotic surgeon. So whatever I am doing, the data is getting captured. And eventually
01:52with the help of machine learning, the robots are learning. And eventually that data is going to help
01:57us in developing what we call as autonomous robots in the field of healthcare. So that is true.
02:03But if you think that the robot is going to replace me, then I think you are mistaken. A robot
02:09would
02:10still need me to switch it on, guide him and to take the blame. Yet, yet so far is what
02:18the robot needs
02:18you for. But I have a particular gentleman, a very famous gentleman who believes otherwise. Can we play
02:24that clip up please? So right now there is a shortage of doctors and great surgeons. You are a doctor
02:34yourself. You know how it takes a long time for a human to become. It is ridiculously expensive and long.
02:40Ridiculously, yes. Ridiculously, super long time to learn to be a good doctor. And even then the knowledge
02:48is constantly evolving. It is hard to keep up with everything. Doctors have limited time. They make
02:54mistakes. And you have to say like how many great surgeons are there? Not that many great surgeons.
03:01When do you think Optimus will be a better surgeon than the best surgeons? How long for that?
03:09Three years. Three years. Okay. And by the way, that's it. Three years at scale. Yes.
03:15There will probably be more Optimus robots that are great surgeons than there are all surgeons.
03:19You have Elon Musk saying that it will take… This trip was recorded about six months ago.
03:23He is saying it will take three years for robots and AI to replace doctors. They will not be needed
03:30at all.
03:33Well, I can only say here that… Sorry, Elon, this is not going to happen. Elon, a long time back
03:39predicted
03:39that in the next three to four years there will be autonomous cars everywhere. Didn't happen. He predicted that
03:45India to America will take two hours. Hyperloop. It didn't happen. So yes, this in principle, this is
03:51something which is going to happen. But I think that stage is pretty far away for now.
03:57It's going to happen but not just yet is what you're saying. Absolutely. That's fascinating. That is it.
04:01But we are clearly at that point already, right, Doc, where the AIs are detecting cancers, detecting diseases
04:09much before doctors, sometimes despite doctors. That is already a reality. So what is medicine missing here then?
04:16So basically, we… See, this is what evolution is and AI is basically what I would say a cognitive infrastructure
04:25being added to us, medicine.
04:28So what it does, it basically, it is identifying a lot of patterns. So it is helping our radiologists
04:34to, you know, to generate data from all those images and to predict the diseases long before, you know,
04:42it gets manifested. Or it is good in interpreting those images better than humans.
04:48Similarly, pathology. A lot of these tools are helping us evaluating the pathology slides.
04:54Similarly, the language models, large language models are generating a lot of medical literature.
05:01So that is going to help us in a big way. So I treat AI as complementary to the medicine
05:07and not something which is going to replace it.
05:09So in the same podcast, the other gentleman there goes on to say that we don't tell doctors this just
05:14yet.
05:14We tell them that it is a tool. But ultimately, we want it to replace doctors, right? That's what I'm
05:20saying.
05:20And it's not always a bad thing. Look at the condition and look at the ratio of doctors to patients
05:24and, you know, population in India at least.
05:27We die in dire need of more and more doctors. So AI can certainly help.
05:32The running joke, however, in the tech circles is that radiologists and pathologists, by the way, will be replaced by
05:38a $20 AI chatbot.
05:41That is definitely going to happen. But I, as somebody who uses AI on a daily basis, what level of
05:49AI integration is already in your OT right now?
05:52And where do you see it in the next two years?
05:55So AI is already, they have entered in the medical and the healthcare arena.
06:01As of now, it is mainly acting as an assistant, right from, you know, in the diagnostic arena, pathology, like
06:09I discussed,
06:10in managing the patient flow, getting the insurance approvals done.
06:13But also in operating system, we are getting robots which are guiding us, you know, that where to operate, where
06:20not to operate.
06:21So this is happening as of now. And eventually, we will develop, the system will be integrated entirely into the
06:29healthcare.
06:29That is something which is going to happen. Eventually, the people, at the population level, we will be having digital
06:35twins,
06:35where we can simulate the treatments and the medicine on those digital twins before we actually, you know, treat a
06:43normal person.
06:44So, new drug discoveries, precision medicine is coming in a big way, longevity.
06:49So there are a lot of, also the surgeries. Surgeries are going to be taken care of by the robots
06:54in a semi-autonomous way very soon.
06:57But eventually, I would say that, yeah.
06:59Just take a pause. When you say surgeries will be operated by robots in a semi-autonomous way, what does
07:06that mean?
07:07Well, the brain would still be of surgeons, but robot will act as a, you know, as a guide.
07:14As of now, we are doing robotic surgeries, so this is more of a precision tool.
07:18It amplifies the image, the size of the image. It reduces the tremors of a surgeon.
07:22You know, the way I do surgery, there can be some tremors, so it gets filtered out with the robots.
07:28So, it will amplify the surgeon's ability and also improves the outcome.
07:33And now, let me remind you, eventually, what Huxley said long back.
07:38There is a concept of transhumanism. When the man and the machine merges, that is going to be the future.
07:44So, eventually, it is going to be the merger of man and machine.
07:48Merger of man and machine, that is a lot of future gazing that you have done, and you are totally
07:52okay with it.
07:52You are saying that is not a problem at all.
07:54Well, eventually, you know, we are getting pacemakers. There has been talks of getting, you know, brain implants.
08:00That is a machine getting integrated in the human body.
08:04Sure. We talked about future gazing. On that, I have a particular video from China.
08:10So, in China, there is an AI-run hospital. No doctors.
08:15An AI, right from entry to exit, to testing, to treatment, to even medicine, all done through AI and robots.
08:23Let's play that up for you to see what that image in future, at least for us, is like, and
08:28then I will come back to you, Dr. Anshuman.
08:34So, this is like a vending machine, but for medicine.
08:39So, you go, you scan your prescription, and there you have it.
08:43This is already happening in China.
08:46This is not future gazing. This is not AI-generated imaging. This is already happening.
08:51How far is India from this reality?
08:56Well, this is the era of globalization. So, India is not far behind. This is what I feel.
09:01Whatever technology develops, it doesn't take much for the technology to come to India.
09:05So, what I would see that in next three to five years, there will be a proper integration of artificial
09:12intelligence in our day-to-day workflow.
09:15So, this is definitely something which is going to happen.
09:18But definitely, you just cannot think of AI replacing doctors because eventually, just how do AI break a bad news?
09:29How would AI guide a person in pain and discomfort, counsel the person who has been diagnosed with the cancer,
09:38the fear, you know, the eventual outcomes?
09:43So, for that you would still need people. So, AI will take care of the healthcare part definitely. Yes, I
09:50agree.
09:50But eventually, it needs human supervision. It needs the empathy. It needs the human touch. We are humans.
09:59Till it learns how to do that as well. Till the time robots and AI figure that out as well.
10:04But let me move on to a different subject now. Since you do Bariatrics, this is basically gastrointestinal surgeries, etc.
10:11At this point, innovation in terms of medicine is happening not just on the AI front, but even on understanding
10:20new formulas and chemicals.
10:22GLP-1, weight loss drugs, is the biggest medical disruptor of our times, the entire generation that we live in.
10:30From your standpoint, at the moment, how are we tackling the GLP-1 or weight loss drug industry?
10:39Are we too soft on them? Are we too easy on them? Or are we in a paranoia?
10:47Well, GLP-1 is a breakthrough in the management of obesity. But there is a word of caution.
10:56We have to treat this modality with a lot of responsibility. It is a prescription medicine.
11:04And there are proper indications for GLP-1. So, what exactly is GLP-1?
11:08GLP-1 is a hormone which is being synthesized by your intestine and it acts on your brain, reduces the
11:14cravings.
11:14It increases the insulin release, thereby increasing the metabolism. And it also slows down the gastric emptying.
11:21So, you feel full for long. So, this is how it works. But definitely it is not meant for everyone.
11:27There are certain guidelines. It is not replacing bariatric surgery for now, because there are guidelines.
11:32If your BMI is more than 35, you have diabetes, blood pressure, or if you have a BMI of more
11:38than 40,
11:39then bariatric surgery is the recommendation. Because it's not about losing weight, but about the sustenance.
11:46That is also very, very important. So, there is a certain group of patients which are eligible for GLP-1.
11:53That is why this is something which has to be taken in a very responsible manner under strict supervision.
11:59It has to be taken, but is that really happening? That's the big question.
12:01Because the problem with India is that those who really need weight loss pills or weight loss injections
12:07are the ones who are scared of it and those who don't need are lining up and want it more
12:12and more.
12:13But with a quick show of your cards again that all of you have with you, how many of you
12:16are curious about weight loss injections?
12:19Curious at least? If not, yes, no? Curious? Okay. Not curious at all? Not curious? Okay.
12:28No, a lot of harmful effects over there. You speak about GLP-1 or weight loss injections as one of
12:35those things that will transform how medicine works.
12:37Because it has, it impacts at least 80 other fields of medicine. Last, I spoke to a doctor.
12:44He said 80 other fields of medicine will perhaps have lesser patient load because people are taking these weight loss
12:52injections.
12:53Is that already happening or do you see a massive disconnect in India where, again, those who need it are
13:01not the ones to get it?
13:04Yes, I agree. There is a lot of hype about it and those who really need it are not coming
13:09forward because of the fear mongering,
13:11because of the misinformation. And those who actually don't need it are, you know, lining up.
13:16So, yes, you are absolutely right. So, for that, we have to understand one thing.
13:20India is the diabetes capital of the world. So, the problem of obesity is humongous.
13:26One in three is suffering from metabolic syndrome. So, we need to have a proper policy, guidelines,
13:33and we have to understand that it is strictly a prescription medicine not to be abused.
13:37It is not something, and obesity, the treatment is not cosmetic. It reduces your lifespan.
13:44Every 10 kg extra weight reduces your life by two years. So, we have to understand that.
13:49But is the opposite also true? If you lose weight, if you are able to get better or if you
13:56fall up more on your BMI,
13:57you increase your lifespan? Absolutely, that is true. If you follow, see, the foundation remains the diet and lifestyle.
14:05You know, avoid stress, lot of sleep, protein, resistance training. So, that will remain the foundation of a healthy weight.
14:15You know, and these all things are tools which are going to help you, maybe empower you, but it needs
14:21a lot of responsible usage.
14:25You speak about protein, and that is one of the things that's got everybody in a bit of a tizzy,
14:30right?
14:30You never know if you're eating enough, and there are some times you just cannot.
14:35What is the next big innovation happening in the field of protein? When will it get easier for us,
14:41especially for a lot of vegetarians and Indian vegetarians?
14:44See, the dietary... India is following what we call as a carb-rich diet. So, there is lack of awareness
14:51on that,
14:52especially for vegetarians. So, my personal recommendation would be that most of the protein should ideally come from your diet.
14:59And whatever the deficit is, should be supplemented. So, that is important because, you know, protein, amino acids and protein
15:07are the building blocks for your muscles.
15:08And now, the research has shown, there is an evidence, but eventually more muscle is gonna help you in achieving
15:16the remission of diabetes, in controlling your metabolic syndrome.
15:20So, having protein is important, should come from natural sources as much as possible, supplement only if there is a
15:27gap.
15:27But for vegetarians, what do they do? Those who don't want to take protein powder, perhaps, or...
15:33And a lot of Indian gut biome is not even suitable for a lot of protein powder made. Is there
15:38a new way that's on the horizon?
15:40Well, peptides... protein come in many forms. It comes in concentrate, it comes as a isolate, it comes as a
15:46hydrolysate. Now...
15:48Hydrolyzed? Yeah, hydrolyzed protein is basically pre-digested protein, and it can be mixed in water, and thereby, you know,
15:57making the consistency less...
15:58You know, it looks like plain water. You know, the consistency is not that of a shake. It is just
16:04like water.
16:05Are you saying there will be water protein now?
16:07Yeah, absolutely. It is commonly known as protein water, and it has got hydrolyzed or isolate protein, which has been
16:13broken down, and it is soluble in water.
16:15So, it... flavoured water. So, it is just like having, you know, a flavoured water.
16:20And this is...
16:21Without the consistency of a thick protein shake.
16:24And this is not yeast protein, because that's different.
16:26Absolutely. Yeast protein... See, yeast protein is entirely different.
16:29Yeah.
16:30The source is from yeast, and especially those of you who are vegans, they can...
16:34And those who just don't want to take whey protein, they can switch to yeast protein.
16:38It is equally good as whey. Yeah.
16:41I think this is a good point to mention that anybody who is considering this,
16:44because all of these products are now available in India, please do not ask internet.
16:48Please do ask your doctor before you start any of this.
16:51But again, we've come... we've got last few minutes on the panel here.
16:55So, let me take and engage the audience a little bit.
16:58So, all of you, like you said, please get your hands...
17:01Get the packs and the red and red flags, green flags handy, and answer this for me.
17:07So, this game is called green flag, red flag.
17:10Dr. Anshaman, you have it with you as well.
17:12My first question is this.
17:14And you can say, if you agree, go with green.
17:17If you don't, go with red.
17:18The question is, I feel intimidated asking too many questions to my doctor.
17:24Yes or no?
17:30You get intimidated asking too many questions?
17:34Sorry.
17:34You don't, okay.
17:35Do you... is that a red flag for you if a patient is asking too many questions?
17:39No, absolutely not.
17:40In fact, I encourage all my patients to, you know, ask as much as questions as possible.
17:45So, because, you know, patients don't just come to... to get the knowledge or information.
17:50They also come... they also come for... for... for trust, you know, for honesty.
17:55So, the engagement has to be there.
17:58And I definitely encourage them to ask more questions.
18:01It is good for me.
18:02Not ChatGPT, ask you.
18:04Well, ChatGPT is something which helps me, you know.
18:07Because ChatGPT can give you good scientific evidence-based answers.
18:12And that really helps me.
18:14It... it... it... it simplifies my task of explaining what exactly is right for you and what is wrong for
18:20you.
18:20I should say, not a lot of doctors are like Dr. Antriman.
18:23So, be careful who you ask all those questions.
18:24But let me move on to the next one.
18:26I feel doctors today prescribe too many unnecessary tests.
18:35You see why internet is winning?
18:37You see why internet is winning now?
18:40Because it's the trust deficit that doctors have to fill.
18:43Let me take on the next one very quickly.
18:45I worry about my health data online.
18:49All that information that you're writing on your AI chatbots.
18:55And... they worry about their health data online.
18:59That's something for internet to think about.
19:01The next one.
19:03I believe most wellness trends are just marketing gimmicks.
19:11Barely any reds, largely greens.
19:14Well, I'm... I'm happy.
19:15You're happy about that.
19:16It's a very well-informed audience, Dr. Antriman.
19:18And... and that's... that's why I was angry, you know.
19:21Because if credible voices remain quiet, the misinformation will take the center stage.
19:26Right.
19:27Dr. Antriman, last thirty seconds, so I have to say this.
19:31Today, like I said in the beginning, we are at the cusp of understanding health and wellness, right?
19:36At one end, there is a trust deficit that you have with your doctor, which is true.
19:41You don't feel like your doctor tells you everything or has time enough to even understand.
19:46On the other, there is a lot of misinformation.
19:48To this audience, how do you want to tell them?
19:51How do they navigate this space?
19:54Well, it is not something about doctor versus internet.
19:58It is about, you know, empowered society, informed society, empowered by technology
20:06and anchored by responsible, honest clinicians and physicians.
20:11This is what I'm looking at in the future.
20:14And... and AI or technology is going to empower us.
20:18So, informed society, honest, responsible doctors.
20:24And, you know, that is something which is going to change the world.
20:30Wonderful doctors, I'll take on that.
20:31And my last question then is for you, maybe a takeaway for you.
20:34All of you over here, do you think doctors should stick to being in clinics
20:37or make more Instagram reels for you?
20:42Red or green?
20:44Show of hands, quickly.
20:47More Instagram reels then?
20:50No?
20:51Okay, so that's a debate…
20:52I think there are a lot of greens here.
20:54So, that's a debate we'll take on in the next one.
20:57For the moment, ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Antriman, please give a huge round of applause.
Comments