- 6 months ago
At the India Today Conclave, policymakers and industry leaders discussed India’s accelerating EV transition, highlighting policy support, rising adoption and the critical challenges of charging infrastructure, localisation and consumer confidence.
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00:00Maybe, Yogendra, may I request you to start the conversation.
00:06You know, EV is very fascinating across the world.
00:08You know, we are seeing countries after countries adopting EV.
00:12India is also looking at, you know, this option.
00:15We are still not sure that EV is our first, you know, choice
00:20or hybrid is the choice for the cleaner vehicle.
00:24But still, we are looking at this opportunity.
00:26But if we see new vehicles, there are roughly around 7% to 8%
00:30which EVs are, you know, getting in.
00:33And still, we are far behind China, Scandinavia, even North America,
00:38you know, how they are adding the EVs.
00:41You see this segment very closely.
00:44I want you to come in and help us in understanding
00:47how do you see the global sphere panning out
00:50and how do you see India getting into that picture.
00:57So, India is a late entrant on the electric vehicle sphere.
01:06Many other countries are already much further down the road
01:11as far as EV adoption is concerned.
01:14But if you look at all these countries,
01:17the push came from the government.
01:19There were massive incentives, subsidies,
01:24I mean, no tolls, no parking fees,
01:27various incentives for EV adoption.
01:30And of course, once people start using them,
01:33that initial cost barrier translates into lower running costs
01:38and realize that they are better to run,
01:44easier to maintain, and quite efficient.
01:49Electricity, India has now, as all the government agencies tell us,
01:54plenty of.
01:56Petroleum products, we are still relying on supplies
02:00from very markets that flare up every now and then
02:06and, of course, out-go foreign exchange as well.
02:11Hybrids would have been a stop-go measure
02:15where you don't have to rely on charging those vehicles
02:20from the grid,
02:21but basically more efficient ICE vehicles.
02:28But I think the final goal has to be EV
02:31as far as today's technologies are concerned.
02:34And I think the government, to some extent, realizes that.
02:37I think it would help if the incentives and the policies
02:42that they have elaborated are set in stone.
02:46We have some commitment that these subsidies or incentives
02:53will continue till EV market penetration is so much
02:58or till a certain specified number of years.
03:05That would help.
03:06But also, there are some challenges on the user end as well.
03:13Charging infrastructure,
03:14though should be very easy to put in place,
03:17is taking time.
03:18It is also,
03:20it comes at quite a high cost
03:22as compared to normal electricity.
03:24So those are the challenges.
03:25And I think everybody does realize that EVs,
03:29as far as the technologies available today,
03:33are the best way forward
03:35for reducing pollution dependence
03:36on foreign petroleum products as well.
03:41Thank you, Yogan.
03:42Mahmurji, since he talked a lot of things about
03:46the government's initiative,
03:49your ministry is one of the responsible ministries
03:52to lay down policy as well as regulations.
03:54So I want to understand,
03:56if we see the global scenarios,
03:58digital companies went into EVs globally.
04:02But in India, automobile companies got into there.
04:05So if in simple engineering term,
04:07I say that now we expect mechanical engineers
04:11to deliver what electronics engineers had to deliver,
04:15and they are already delivering in the other parts of the world.
04:18How India is differentiating between these two sciences
04:21and how you play a role as a policy maker,
04:26that real players should come in
04:27and not the people who just want to make money by coming in.
04:34So by real players, you mean the ones who are not fly-by-night operators?
04:40Fly-by-night operators as well as people
04:41who are not serious about electronics, getting into electronics.
04:45But I think the answer is already out there
04:48for all of us to see
04:49that we have the vehicle OEMs
04:51who are in this space as far as India is concerned,
04:54and we have the big players
04:56who are contributing a lot
04:59in this particular development of the entire EV ecosystem.
05:03And I don't think that's something
05:05that really is a matter of concern
05:08as far as India is concerned.
05:10What we have also done,
05:11and to which I think Yoginder rightly alluded to,
05:15was fulfill our mandate
05:18in terms of ensuring that a proper regulatory
05:22entire landscape is created
05:24we, in the Ministry of Road Transport,
05:28quite obviously by virtue of administering
05:30the Motor Vehicle Act,
05:32we are the regulators
05:33for the entire road transport sector in the country,
05:36including motor vehicles,
05:37and hence specifically electric vehicles.
05:40So a few years earlier, in fact,
05:42we started down this path
05:44and we ensured that the regulations,
05:47the standards that are required
05:49for the electric vehicles to develop in the country
05:54are set in place.
05:56There are many standards,
05:57and perhaps on a more pointed question,
06:00I could respond to that,
06:01the kind of regulation that we have brought in,
06:03the kind of standards that we have formulated,
06:05which ensures that, you know,
06:09the electric vehicles can be manufactured in the country,
06:13can be type-tested,
06:14can be homologated,
06:15and can be then owned and plied on the roads.
06:19Some of the incentives was also mentioned by Yoginder.
06:22We have, whether it's,
06:24whether through a system of incentivization
06:28or disincentivization of the fossil fuel vehicles,
06:31we have managed to come to a situation
06:33where the message is loud and clear to everybody
06:35that, you know,
06:38electric vehicles is the way to go forward.
06:40I'll only beg to defer on one point
06:43that in terms of,
06:45in terms of as far as the ministry is concerned,
06:48and frankly, I speak for the entire government,
06:51we don't feel that we should be picking out technologies,
06:55so hence we are technology agnostic,
06:57technology neutral.
06:59We would like to encourage all kinds of such technologies
07:02which contribute to clean mobility.
07:06Tapan, now we understand how globally
07:09Yoginder has positioned ourselves.
07:12Mahmurji told us that how Government of India is pushing.
07:15As a player,
07:17how do WinFast see India as an opportunity?
07:21Is it a market?
07:22Is government incentives?
07:24Or do you think that, you know,
07:26there's a play which India's niche of the niche
07:30because they are very sensitive towards the environment
07:33and the commitments?
07:35Do you think,
07:37what is the thinking of WinFast board, you know,
07:39when they look at the India market?
07:42So, let me give a little bit of a brief about WinFast globally.
07:46It's very important because many of the audience would be not knowing.
07:49In 2017,
07:51we are a very, very young company.
07:53In 2017,
07:54we started our manufacturing of automobiles
07:58where we had ICE as well as EV both.
08:00But in 2021,
08:0222 somewhere,
08:03we discontinued ICE
08:04and we only considered on EV globally.
08:09And around 200,
08:102 million vehicles we had actually sold.
08:14So, the question is,
08:15be it our four-wheeler or two-wheeler or buses or anything,
08:20is basically,
08:21we are only and only selling EV
08:23because globally,
08:24we feel that that is the way to go forward.
08:27There are countries,
08:28like many countries,
08:30I will say,
08:30where it used to be in low single digit
08:32and now they are in a high double digit.
08:34Now, coming to India.
08:36India,
08:37if I talk about the EV,
08:39like somewhere around 2016,
08:40overall,
08:41if I talk about
08:42be it two-wheeler,
08:43four-wheelers,
08:44commercial,
08:45everything put together,
08:47it used to be somewhere around 50,000 per annum.
08:50Last year,
08:51it was more than 2 million overall.
08:53Even if I talk about
08:55passenger vehicle,
08:56four-wheeler,
08:57last year it was nearly,
08:58say around 177,000.
09:01Earlier it used to be only 18,000,
09:03somewhere around 21, 22.
09:04This is the rate at which
09:06the EV is growing
09:07and it is going to continue.
09:09Being the third largest
09:11passenger vehicle industry,
09:12we actually invested in India
09:15at the correct time
09:16because we feel that
09:18the volume on a high base
09:21will actually be quite high,
09:23substantial
09:23because roughly around 4.6 million
09:26has been sold.
09:27So, I think by 2030,
09:29we feel that
09:30it will be a very, very significant
09:31EV market for us.
09:33That is precise the reason
09:35that we really committed
09:37in investing in Tutukuri,
09:39our Tamil Nadu plant,
09:41400 acres.
09:42Initial investment
09:43has been to the tune
09:44of 50,000 vehicles.
09:46So, yes,
09:47there are challenges
09:48which I think Mr. Yoganandri,
09:50Mr. Mahmud has also said.
09:52But if we can really
09:54overcome the challenges,
09:55then I think
09:57we can really, really
09:58have a very, very good
09:59overall EV volume
10:01which will be good
10:01for our society.
10:03Yes, some challenges
10:05as has been mentioned
10:06like, you know,
10:06regarding infrastructure challenges
10:08of charging stations.
10:11Plus, overall,
10:12still we are importing
10:13a lot of battery
10:14which battery contributes
10:15to more than one third
10:16of the vehicle cost.
10:18That also is mainly important
10:19if we can localize it
10:20which government
10:21is giving incentive
10:22for localizing.
10:23So, once the bomb cost
10:25comes down,
10:25it will be a mass
10:26adoption of the EV.
10:28And I think
10:29we are very confident
10:30about our investment
10:32and our future
10:33in India.
10:35So, Jata,
10:36may I now request you.
10:38You know,
10:39Invest India has a dual
10:41you know,
10:42responsibility.
10:43one is to,
10:44you know,
10:45convince many of
10:46the players
10:47like WinFirst
10:48to come to India.
10:49But government also
10:51has given a diktat
10:52that we also want
10:53to make
10:53a lot of products here.
10:56You know,
10:57how do you
10:58see the interest
10:59especially of
11:01the global players?
11:02Is it the market
11:03which excites them?
11:04Is the return
11:06on investments
11:07which India can provide
11:08that excites them?
11:10Or do you think
11:12that, you know,
11:13government's push
11:13for many of these things
11:15is exciting these guys?
11:17So, what is your
11:17feeling like?
11:18Thank you, Anilish.
11:20So, when we are
11:22looking at EV
11:22and e-mobility,
11:24Invest India for that
11:25matter,
11:26the mandate is to
11:26get investment
11:27into the sector
11:28and e-mobility,
11:30EV is one of the
11:30priority sector
11:31for the government.
11:32There are a lot
11:33of incentives
11:34and policy support
11:35from the government
11:36to increase
11:38the supply part
11:39of EVs, right?
11:40Including
11:41make in India.
11:42When we are
11:42talking about EV,
11:43what we understand
11:44is there are
11:45almost 15,000
11:47components in
11:47making an EV.
11:49Battery components
11:50form around
11:5125% of it,
11:53but then the
11:53balance is
11:54other components.
11:56At Invest India,
11:56what we are
11:57looking at is
11:57when we talk
11:59about make in India,
12:00can we localize
12:02the bill of material?
12:03That's the main
12:03mandate.
12:04So, we work
12:05across sectors.
12:06Now, EV component
12:07makers are not
12:08necessarily
12:08supplying only
12:09to EV ecosystem.
12:11So, what we do
12:12is we are working
12:12across the sectors
12:14and looking at
12:14how do we ensure
12:16that there is a
12:16return on investment
12:17on component makers.
12:19So, that's one
12:19of our key focus
12:20sector.
12:21When we are
12:22talking about
12:22battery, as he
12:24was mentioning,
12:24lithium is
12:26almost 100%
12:27import dependent.
12:28The technology
12:29and we are
12:30predominantly
12:31dependent on
12:32China to
12:32mine it and
12:33send it and
12:34the price has
12:35been going up
12:36and up.
12:36So, that's a
12:36huge challenge.
12:37So, the
12:38government is
12:38also focusing
12:39and trying to
12:40incentivize
12:41alternate cell
12:42technology.
12:44And at
12:44Invest India,
12:45we are also
12:45working with
12:46friendly countries,
12:47focused countries.
12:48Similarly, we
12:49have a wish list
12:50of companies
12:51which are
12:51manufacturing or
12:52which are in
12:53that sector
12:54who we are
12:55trying to bring
12:56them to India
12:56and then create
12:57a joint venture
12:58partnership.
12:58So, not
12:59only helping
13:00the domestic
13:01ecosystem but
13:01also ensuring
13:02that foreign
13:03companies come
13:04to India,
13:06establish their
13:07play here,
13:08also get a
13:08JV partner if
13:09need be, but
13:10also get a
13:11return on
13:11investment.
13:12I think that's
13:13the dual role
13:13we are playing
13:14and we are
13:14working with all
13:15the state
13:15governments also
13:16and then ensuring
13:17that passage for
13:19investors is
13:20smooth.
13:20Thank you,
13:21thank you,
13:22Sujata.
13:22Dr. Niti,
13:23if you know,
13:24you can help
13:25us in
13:25understanding.
13:26See, if all
13:27of these guys
13:28have to succeed,
13:29Delhi has to
13:30create a model
13:31and you are
13:32actually working
13:33on the
13:34policy,
13:35transport policy
13:36where EV
13:36will be a
13:37substantial part.
13:39What is the
13:40mindset amongst
13:41the bureaucracy
13:41in Delhi?
13:42How do you
13:43want the mix
13:44should be?
13:46Where all do
13:47you think that
13:47EV can play a
13:48role?
13:48Especially when
13:49we see in
13:50winters,
13:51you know,
13:51the air get
13:52a lot of
13:52pollution.
13:53So people
13:53start thinking
13:54about, you
13:55know,
13:55how to get
13:55on to the
13:56EVs.
13:56But now the
13:57policy and
13:58pen is in
13:58your hand.
13:59Help us in
14:00understanding
14:00the mindset
14:01and what sort
14:02of incentives
14:03you are pushing
14:03into for EV.
14:07Good evening
14:08everyone.
14:10To start to
14:11answer your
14:11question, I
14:12think I
14:13first want to
14:14focus on the
14:15three main
14:15challenges that
14:17we face in
14:18the fast EV
14:19adoption in
14:21any part of
14:22the world,
14:23India or
14:24specifically
14:24Delhi.
14:25I think the
14:26first challenge
14:26is the price
14:28of the
14:29vehicles.
14:30The second
14:30challenge is
14:31the charging
14:31infrastructure and
14:32the third main
14:33challenge is the
14:34lack of confidence
14:35among the
14:36consumers regarding
14:38the new
14:38technology.
14:39technology.
14:39So I think
14:40when the
14:41government has
14:42to form a
14:42policy, they
14:43have to, the
14:44government has
14:44to focus on
14:45all these three
14:46challenges and
14:47to cater to the
14:48first, the
14:50government's
14:51initiative in the
14:52policy would be
14:53to provide the
14:54purchase incentives
14:55and the
14:55scrapping
14:56incentives.
14:57to address the
14:58problem of the
14:59charging infrastructure
15:00under the
15:02overall supervision
15:03and guidance of
15:03the government of
15:04India, Moth, and
15:05under the PME
15:06Drive scheme, we
15:08are going to
15:08encourage the
15:10charging infrastructure
15:10across the city,
15:11both public and the
15:12private infrastructure.
15:15Currently, we have
15:16approximately 8,000 to
15:189,000 charging points
15:19across the city and
15:20we are planning to
15:21take it to over
15:2330,000 in the next
15:25three to four years.
15:27That's the target of
15:28the government.
15:30And regarding the
15:31technology, I think
15:33it's going to be
15:34with time, with the
15:36better technology and
15:37with the reduced
15:38prices and with the
15:39other incentives, the
15:41overall confidence
15:42among the public is
15:43going to grow.
15:44Also, I feel when
15:46there's visibility of
15:49EV buses on the
15:50roads, as we all
15:51know that DTC has
15:52come up with the
15:55transport department
15:56Delhi has now more
15:57than 4,000 plus EV
15:59buses flying on the
16:00roads of the Delhi.
16:01And we are planning
16:02to take it to more
16:04than 12,000 plus in
16:06the next three to
16:07four years.
16:07So with that kind of
16:09setup and when
16:10people see, when the
16:11public sees this kind
16:13of EV buses on the
16:15roads and the other
16:17EV vehicles
16:18multiplying, the
16:19overall confidence
16:20grows among the
16:20public.
16:21And I think that's
16:22going to help grow
16:24the overall confidence
16:26in the EV sector.
16:27Also, to address to
16:29your question about
16:31the EV policy
16:32specifically, the
16:33next EV policy, that
16:35is the EV policy
16:362026 Delhi, is in
16:38the final stages of
16:40making the draft
16:41ready.
16:42And as soon as the
16:42draft will be ready,
16:43it will be put into
16:44the public domain.
16:45We are also consulting
16:46various stakeholders
16:48involved in the
16:49sector.
16:49the stakeholder
16:50consultations are
16:51going on and we
16:52hope that we will
16:53have a more robust
16:54EV policy in a
16:57matter of few
16:57months.
16:58Nidhi, when we
16:59travel out of
17:00India, especially
17:02to the Scandinavian
17:03countries and go to
17:04their capitals, you
17:05know, most of them
17:06now have EV
17:07vehicles.
17:08You know, go to
17:08Oslo, Copenhagen,
17:10you know, you name
17:11it, you know, you'll
17:12see, you'll be
17:13surprised with the
17:14number of EV
17:15vehicles you see on
17:16the road.
17:17So is the
17:17infrastructure.
17:18Is there an
17:19ambition which
17:20Delhi government is
17:21setting up for
17:22themselves that we
17:23want to be fossil
17:26fuel free or, you
17:29know, there is a
17:29direction which Delhi
17:31government wants to
17:31take that, you know,
17:32we want to adopt
17:33this and this is the
17:34timeline we want to
17:35take.
17:35So I'm sure this
17:36discussion must be
17:37happening in your
17:38office.
17:38So help us in, you
17:39know, getting that
17:40sense as well.
17:41Most certainly we
17:43have both the short
17:44term goals as well as
17:45the long term goals
17:46and in the upcoming
17:48EV policy we are
17:49also going to define
17:51certain mandates for
17:52various sectors, various
17:55sections of the
17:55electric vehicles.
17:57However, also the
18:00challenges and the
18:01scenario in the
18:02Scandinavian countries
18:03and that of our
18:04country are completely
18:05different.
18:05So the policy and
18:08all the government
18:09initiatives and the
18:10regulations will have
18:11to be taking into
18:13account the challenges
18:14that are there in our
18:16country and in Delhi
18:17specifically.
18:18So, yes.
18:20Memoji, you know, I
18:21can, some of the
18:22challenges which she
18:23hasn't mentioned but,
18:25you know, many of the
18:26players tell us that we
18:28have seen, you know,
18:30efforts like Blue
18:31Smart, you know, going
18:32bust and then we also
18:34see that many of the
18:35NBFCs, you know, they
18:37struggle to finance the
18:39EV vehicles because of
18:40the, you know, because
18:42many of these vehicles
18:43are equated as IC and
18:44EC, with the IC and
18:46EC counterparts.
18:47So is there any, some
18:49conversation happening
18:50between the ministries
18:51to, you know,
18:53differentiate EVs,
18:54understand their
18:55challenges so that
18:57their financing as
18:58well as some
18:59startups, you know,
19:01around it can be
19:01incentivized.
19:02Especially, you know,
19:03we see there is a lot
19:04of startups which use
19:06EV two-wheelers
19:07for delivery and
19:08other things but there
19:09are no certain
19:10incentives.
19:11So is there any
19:12conversation which is
19:13going on?
19:15Well, the
19:16conversation has
19:17been, you know,
19:19ongoing for many
19:20years now.
19:20And let me state at
19:22the beginning that
19:23unless and until
19:25all the ministries in
19:27the government of
19:27India come together,
19:29all the state
19:30governments come
19:31together, the
19:32industry represented
19:33by WinFast for
19:34instance here,
19:35they show the
19:36interest in this
19:38particular sector.
19:39And the consumer
19:40at large with
19:41Nidhi mentioned that
19:42the awareness needs
19:43to be created as
19:43one of the
19:44challenges.
19:45All of us together
19:46have to ensure that
19:48we make a success
19:49of it.
19:50What's important for
19:51me to state here is
19:54I did mention about
19:55regulations as far as
19:56the ministry of road
19:57transport is concerned.
19:58And I need to
20:00probably mention
20:01slightly in greater
20:02detail that to
20:05formulate the
20:06standards, to frame
20:07the policies, the
20:08ministry has been
20:09consulting not only
20:11other ministries but
20:12across all
20:13stakeholders.
20:14Only then can we
20:15sort of get it right
20:16and get the timing
20:17perfect.
20:19What we have done is
20:20we have ensured that
20:22the legislative
20:23umbrella, the
20:24regulatory framework
20:26of electric vehicles
20:28is set in place.
20:30The safety, the
20:31performance parameters
20:32of how an electric
20:34vehicle should adhere
20:36to or what it should
20:37adhere to are all
20:38sort of laid out.
20:41In fact, I'll go as
20:42far as to say that
20:43the power, the range
20:46and in fact the type
20:48approval of electric
20:49vehicles has also all
20:51been sort of
20:52crystallized.
20:53They're all there out
20:53there in the public
20:54domain in form of
20:56notifications, regulations
20:57and various standards
20:58that we have formulated.
21:00There was a bit of
21:02discussion on the kind
21:03of incentives that the
21:04government has provided.
21:07There was a thought
21:08expressed that yes, it
21:09has done probably, you
21:11bring another sort of
21:14aspect to the fore that
21:15maybe can it be done
21:16enough.
21:17But let me at least mention
21:18to you that in far as
21:20the Ministry of Road
21:21Transport is concerned
21:22to encourage the
21:23adoption of electric
21:24vehicles, we have
21:26waived off the
21:28registration fees for
21:29electric vehicles.
21:30For the electric
21:32transport vehicles, we
21:33have waived off the
21:34permit requirements and
21:35the formalities, the
21:36fees, etc.
21:38We do understand, it was
21:39mentioned I think by
21:41Sujata that the cost of
21:42the battery is a pretty
21:44substantive amount of
21:45the total cost of an
21:46electric vehicle, probably
21:47around 35 to 40%.
21:49So in terms of the
21:51registration by the state
21:53transport authorities, the
21:54Ministry of Road
21:55Transport has mandated
21:56that you can register an
21:57electric vehicle without the
21:59battery also.
22:00Now you need to
22:02understand here that the
22:04ICE vehicle cannot be
22:07registered without the
22:08engine here, without the
22:09internal combustion engine.
22:11There was also another
22:12challenge which was spoken
22:13about the total cost of
22:15ownership or how much it
22:16costs to sort of run,
22:18first of all purchase, then
22:20run and operate an
22:20electric vehicle over the
22:22course of, let's see, its
22:23entire lifespan.
22:25Now when you purchase an
22:26ICE vehicle, you don't
22:28pay up front for all the
22:30gasoline that you are going
22:31to use for the next five
22:32years.
22:33You are purchasing the
22:34gasoline every week or
22:36every month depending on
22:37the usage.
22:38whereas for electric
22:40vehicles, you are paying
22:41for the battery up front.
22:42So we are trying to bring
22:43about a lot of policy
22:45initiatives, a lot of
22:46interesting models, if I
22:48may use that term, to
22:50ensure that battery is not
22:53and does not become a sort
22:54of a limiting factor in
22:56terms of the decision of
22:57purchase decisions of the
22:59consumers.
22:59So the total cost of
23:01ownership, if we can
23:02address that issue by
23:04ensuring parity, price
23:07parity at a certain level
23:09over the life cycle of a
23:11vehicle, vis-a-vis an ICE
23:13vehicle, I think we'll be
23:14substantially, you know,
23:16tackling this problem of
23:17less awareness or more
23:20acceptance.
23:23Thirdly, supply chain issues
23:25I didn't want to mention
23:26because awareness is there,
23:27there's total, the total cost
23:29of ownership was mentioned.
23:31The charging infrastructure and
23:33which leads to range anxiety,
23:34of course, all of you are
23:36aware, so I don't need to
23:37sort of dwell on it for a
23:38long time.
23:39But the electric vehicles and
23:41its manufacture does play or
23:43does face the supply chain
23:45issues, be it electric
23:47minerals, be it critical
23:48minerals, be it the batteries,
23:51et cetera.
23:51We know that a very select few
23:54countries across the world
23:56dominate in this sphere.
23:58And as a result, there are
23:59those supply chain risks.
24:01Can we bring in that sort of
24:04resilience in the supply chain
24:06ecosystem?
24:07Can we sort of make it more
24:09robust?
24:09And these are the systemic
24:11challenges that all the
24:12ministries together are
24:14concerned with.
24:15The Ministry of Heavy
24:16Industries, for instance, has
24:19come out with a lot of
24:20incentive schemes.
24:21You're all aware of FAME,
24:22you're aware of PME Drive,
24:24which has come in recently,
24:25and we all believe it will be a
24:26game changer.
24:27The encouragement to
24:29manufacturing of electric
24:31vehicles or through, you
24:34know, through PLI schemes,
24:35et cetera, by making
24:37tailor-made schemes, be it for
24:39batteries or auto components
24:40is out there.
24:41And a lot of auto companies
24:43and auto OEMs and auto
24:44component companies have taken
24:46advantage of it.
24:47And I'm sure it's all leading
24:48up to a sort of creating a
24:52virtual cycle by virtue of which
24:54over a period of time, we can
24:56sort of look at electric
24:58vehicles as something that is
25:02substantive in number.
25:03As far as two-wheelers and
25:05three-wheelers are concerned,
25:07we have moved a fair distance.
25:09The challenge that we are
25:11currently facing is primarily
25:12for four-wheelers and the
25:14heavy or medium commercial
25:16vehicles.
25:17I'm sure with all these efforts
25:19that I mentioned and the
25:22others that are necessarily
25:23being debated as I speak and
25:26are on the anvil.
25:27I'm sure a lot more can be
25:28done.
25:29And I'm sure we are, the
25:30government is absolutely
25:31If I can add a supplementary
25:32here, you know, a few days
25:34back, your colleagues in
25:36Commerce Ministry, they came
25:37up with a notification that
25:40the FDI from China would be
25:43opened up.
25:44And they categorically mentioned
25:46that, you know, solar, EVs and
25:49these type of sectors.
25:50So what exactly, you know, we
25:52are looking at?
25:53Is there some technology which
25:55we have identified that that
25:57will come with the Chinese
25:58capital so that our
26:00indigenous supply chains can be
26:02strengthened?
26:03Or, you know, we are just
26:05looking for the import
26:06substitution coming from the
26:08Chinese?
26:11Well, that brings us all to a
26:13larger question, doesn't it?
26:15That the global order, as we
26:17know of it or knew of it in the
26:20past number of decades, is
26:23most likely sort of under a lot
26:25of stress, certainly.
26:27There are various reasons and
26:28factors that's all out there in
26:30the public domain.
26:31So the way the international
26:35community went about its
26:36trading formalities, the way it
26:39went about dealing with, let's
26:42say, other nations, the way the
26:44entire economic order and its
26:46edifice was built up, they are
26:49under a lot of stress.
26:50So now what becomes paramount is
26:55national interest, which was
26:57always there, but now you probably
26:59will start looking at measures
27:01which solely only look at your
27:05own particular national interest.
27:07Now, in terms of the supply chain
27:10issues and the stress that we are
27:13all seeing out there happening, you
27:14need to take measures to do that.
27:16And for that, if there are
27:18requirements of opening up your
27:20borders, I don't know if specific
27:22countries were named, that I'm not
27:24sure and I don't want to comment on
27:25that, but yes, that particular
27:27notification did talk about
27:29countries with which we share a land
27:31border.
27:32Only China is cash surplus.
27:36So I'll leave, you know, leave it at
27:39that, but the point of the matter
27:42being that, yes, there are
27:43technologies out there in the world
27:45and there are expertise and there are,
27:49you know, there are companies which
27:52are, you know, out there in the
27:54forefront.
27:54And if such technologies or such
27:58entities would want to partner with
28:00certain entities in our country, and
28:04which obviously needs to be underlined
28:06here, which also propels our aim of
28:10Atmanirvara Bharat.
28:12That's why you mentioned about domestic
28:13production here.
28:15And if all of them can combine together
28:17and we have a situation where we can
28:20make use of technologies, make use of
28:23knowledge, which is out there in the
28:24world, which contributes to our own
28:26growth as a nation and develops the,
28:29you know, entire, in this case, the
28:31vehicle landscape in the country.
28:33Yes, it's welcome, subject to certain
28:36safeguards, which we all know and we all
28:38would be, we all would ensure that it's
28:41taken care of.
28:42Thank you, thank you.
28:43Tapan, you know, you have heard this
28:47co-panelist of yours, and there is a
28:49sense which we have that in India,
28:51needle is shifting.
28:53But when we see your product line, you
28:55know, you have very good cars, you
28:58know, and SUVs to offer Indians.
29:02It's very niche of the niche, you know,
29:04only 8% of new vehicles are EV.
29:07Amongst them, only 2% is the, you
29:11know, passenger cars.
29:12And there also, you know, these high-end
29:14cars are very, very small percentage.
29:18What is the thought process when you
29:20see the Indian market, especially when
29:22the whole needle is shifting and cities
29:25like Delhi, they are coming up with a
29:26full-fledged policy for their EV vehicles.
29:30So what is the strategy behind, you know,
29:33having only niche products here?
29:36Yeah, so if I talk about particularly
29:38overall EV, yes, it's around 8% of the
29:41overall TIB, but passenger vehicle is
29:44just 4%.
29:45That's quite less.
29:46But as I had mentioned earlier that it
29:49has actually, overall volume, it has
29:51improved a lot.
29:52And last year it was nearly 200,000 the
29:56volume had been.
29:57The point is that the government has
30:00taken a target of 30% EV penetration by
30:042030, and which Mr. Mahmood has rightly
30:08said, that this can happen when OEMs,
30:12government, policymakers, all join hands
30:15and then give a good push.
30:18So first and the foremost thing is that
30:20initially, like for example, if I talk
30:23about certain countries like China and
30:25other countries, initially there had been
30:27a lot of support from the government to
30:29reach that inflection point.
30:31After that, that support can be reduced.
30:33Even our government also through FAME
30:351, FAME 2, etc., the support has been
30:37given.
30:38So yes, as of now also if I talk about
30:41the GST on EV, it is 5% as compared to
30:43the ICE which is starting from 18%.
30:47But similarly, like for example, states,
30:49certain states have got 0% tax, certain
30:52states have got full tax on EV as
30:55compared to ICE.
30:57I think a lot of support is required.
30:59Having said so, I think a lot of OEMs
31:03are launching EVs.
31:05They are also having their own EV
31:08charging stations.
31:09Like if I talk about WinFast, not only
31:12we have launched our EVs, we are going
31:14to keep on launching our vehicles, but
31:16our sister concern, WinGroup, is also
31:18going to have charging stations across the
31:21country to help the customers.
31:22The charging infrastructure is one of them.
31:26Third thing which is very, very important
31:27is to get that scale and to reduce the
31:31bomb cost and to ensure that the adoption
31:33is fast.
31:34It is very, very important that the
31:36localization should be happening.
31:38Just importing vehicles and giving to
31:42Indian customers may not be commercially
31:45viable.
31:45That's the reason why we took that
31:48particular challenge and we set up a
31:50huge manufacturing plant and we are
31:53improving our localization.
31:54We are also helping the supply chain.
31:57So these are the things which we are
31:59doing.
32:00Another thing which is very, very important
32:02is, which we have studied from our
32:04research, is that when a customer is
32:06buying the EV, it is not that he is only
32:09and only concentrating on the initial on-road
32:12price of the EV.
32:14For him, it is very, very important is, what
32:16is the overall cost of ownership?
32:19For that, the warranty is very, very
32:21important.
32:22So, like, for example, we have a very, very
32:24good warranty policy.
32:25Ten years battery warranty policy, vehicle
32:27warranty policy.
32:28We have a free maintenance policy.
32:30And also customers want a good service
32:33network and sales network.
32:35So that also we are providing that, you
32:37know, good service network.
32:40Another thing for easy EV adoption, which
32:43we have also seen, is that right now, many
32:46of the OEMs are concentrating on the
32:48metros and tire one.
32:50What we have observed is that there is a
32:52great demand in tire three, tire two cities
32:54also.
32:54So we are, because of the charging easiness,
32:58it is easy to, you know, charge in the
33:01houses in this.
33:03So what we are trying to do is that we are
33:05also trying to have the service and sales
33:07network, even in tire two, tire three cities.
33:10So as an OEM, we are trying our level
33:13best to see, because we only have EVs to
33:16sell.
33:16We'll be also launching the two-wheeler EV,
33:19the e-buses EV.
33:20But I feel that when all OEMs, most of the
33:23OEMs, along with the support from
33:25government, educate the customers, I think
33:28that inflection point will be reached and
33:30then EV will really, really, you know, have a
33:32very strong upward trajectory.
33:34That's what I strongly believe.
33:36Sujata, you know, taking his point forward, his,
33:40his, you know, core was that, you know, having
33:45manufacturing in India is commercially more
33:47viable.
33:49This may be true for the other players as well.
33:52But as I was asking Memoji that, you know,
33:55government open up, you know, avenues for the
33:58Chinese capital to come in as far as, you know,
34:01they bring in some manufacturing.
34:03What is your sense that in West India, not only
34:06about EV, but otherwise also clean tech sector as
34:11well, because it was mentioned there.
34:13So what is the sense there?
34:15You know, is global diversification from the
34:18China, is that, that story is over or are we
34:21entering into a new game where EV players, you know,
34:26from China also want to come and set up shop here and
34:29sell to the world, what is the, what is the game
34:31going on now?
34:34See, first is our domestic market itself.
34:37Anyone who wants to have a play, any business who
34:40wants to play in the world, I think they cannot
34:42ignore our domestic market.
34:44We are one of the fastest growing economy in the
34:46world.
34:47Currently, we are around 4 trillion in GDP and we are
34:50expected to double by 2030.
34:52At the same rate, nothing done extraordinary, but we are
34:56supposed to be reaching almost 7 trillion plus economy,
35:00right?
35:00We have an aspiring middle class where the
35:03affordability and accessibility to products is
35:06increasing and consumers want choices.
35:10And when they, the current consumers, they want to make
35:13smart choices.
35:15What we are seeing in the geopolitical situation is the
35:17uncertainty of supply chain, especially.
35:20Gas, people are shifting to induction cookware, people are
35:23storing chole battu rays.
35:25But the thing is, it is also making us realize that the
35:29dependency of energy on other geographies is not going to
35:33be a sustainable or a self-reliant, not good for our own
35:37growth.
35:38So when we are talking about Vixit Bharat, I think energy mix
35:41is going to be very critical.
35:43So when we are talking about energy mix, we are now
35:46talking about solar, wind, nuclear, all these things are
35:50coming to play.
35:51And when those steady supply of electricity and energy is
35:56going to be in place, I think all the chicken and egg
35:59situation currently what we are facing, charging
36:02infrastructure, grid stability, availability of
36:05electricity and then availability of products will be
36:07taken care of.
36:08So there is a clearly huge domestic demand, including
36:12countries which are land-bordering us cannot ignore.
36:15So everyone wants a piece of what we have to offer.
36:18So having said that, there are no permanent friends or
36:23enemies in geopolitics.
36:25Every country aligns with its needs and requirements.
36:28So I think that way we have always been, the government has
36:32always been giving approvals for investments which are coming
36:35from anywhere in the world, depending on our own requirement.
36:39So I think that is definitely going to drive, India first is going to
36:44drive our own investment decisions.
36:46We are also looking at how do we identify critical technologies which are not
36:51available in any other geography.
36:53Can we bring them, which are not available currently in India but it is
36:57always, already 10 plus years ahead.
36:59So can we bring them home?
37:01So I think a couple of decisions will drive India's decision to attract those
37:05investments.
37:06But definitely companies anywhere else in the world want to be in India.
37:21Dr. Nithi, if you know, we can prick your mind.
37:26Maybe if we can foresee, five years down the line, we are seeing a lot of
37:31development happening at the policy level, at geopolitical level, as well as
37:36people setting up shops here in India.
37:39So when you are finalizing the first draft of your policy, what sort of
37:45heterogeneous mix of EVs you are looking at in Delhi?
37:49Maybe five years down the line, how many cars do you want to see?
37:53How many bigger vehicles do you want to see?
37:56And now we are also seeing that, you know, the mass rapid transport system is
38:02also taking shape.
38:03So in five to six year time, how do you see or foresee Delhi's transport system
38:09going forward?
38:12Since the draft of the policy is not yet in the public domain, so it may not be
38:18right for me to divulge the specific details of the targets.
38:24But this is for sure, and we are certain that with all the policy initiatives comprising of
38:34the purchase incentives, the scrapping incentives, the boost in the charging infrastructure, both
38:41public and private, and all those kind of, all the other initiatives that will be taken
38:48by the OEMs.
38:50Since we recently took a lot of stakeholder consultations involving the major OEMs, and we were happy to
38:58see a very, very positive response from them.
39:00And they are also taking a lot of initiatives in basically addressing the supply side constraints and setting
39:10up the charging infrastructure.
39:12So we are certain and we are hopeful that the picture of Delhi will be far better than what it
39:21is right now.
39:22And the EV adoption is going to get a major boost in the next three to four years with the
39:28policy incentives.
39:31Akshima, you have come late, but you know, you are most welcome in the conversation.
39:39Especially, you have come from MNRE, so we are expecting some minting gossip coming from there.
39:47See, there is a war going on in the Middle East, and there is another debate going on that whether
39:54this discussion on oil versus EV or versus non-fossil fuel-based vehicles, is there a, you know,
40:07in flex point you see during this war, because especially when the Gulf Strait of Hormuz is blocked,
40:13and fossil fuels are jacking up.
40:16What is your thought process?
40:18Is this an inflection point for electric vehicles?
40:22I think, thanks and really apologies to co-panelists and everyone else for being late.
40:29I think, I don't think it's an inflection point for an economy like India, which is 90% dependent on
40:38crude imports.
40:39So, I think it's more of a wake-up call that we are not doing much about it.
40:46You know, it was really, you know, 10 years back, a decade back, a kind of a debate, you know,
40:51whether EVs are good,
40:53or whether ICE vehicles are good, or you know, that whole debate.
40:56I think that's a debate of prehistoric times.
40:59I don't think we need to kind of get into that.
41:03What is critical is that for, you know, an oil importing, a crude importing economy, which is, you know, so
41:11dependent.
41:11This is really a wake-up call that we need to diversify.
41:16It is not just essential from a climate perspective, it's not just essential from a pollution perspective.
41:22I think it is essential from how our economy can really handle the shocks that are out there, you know,
41:30whether it is in terms of war, whether it is in, you know, terms of any other shocks, or supply
41:35chain shocks, or tariff shocks.
41:37So I think the more we diversify, the more we clean, and the more we localize our transportation, supply chains,
41:46our transport, kind of, and logistics,
41:48it is just helping us as an economy in every way.
41:53You know, also we've done enough analysis to identify that it's not purely just the oil imports, or, you know,
42:02reduction opportunity that India has.
42:04I think the big opportunity with EVs is creation of a domestic industry.
42:09I think for long we've been dependent on a lot of our industries, you know, from, you know, technologies, et
42:15cetera, outside.
42:16There's a real opportunity when we say EVs and electric vehicles to create domestic industry that is centered around EVs.
42:24A case in point is two-wheelers.
42:27India is right now one of the leading kind of manufacturers of electric vehicles we have.
42:33I think by far the most superior technology when it comes to electric two-wheelers and the advancements and R
42:40&D, you know, that we spend into that.
42:43And most importantly, we are creating solutions that speak to our population and their mobility needs.
42:49And these solutions are also very replicable and scalable to the rest of the world.
42:54So I think there is a genuine opportunity out here when we say electric vehicles to create really robust economy,
43:01to create robust supply chains, to, you know, kind of localize all of this.
43:05And secondly, Akshima, I wanted specifically to ask you, since you are actually studying most of the global economies at
43:13RMI, you know, the global debate is that price of batteries is not coming down as fast as we all
43:21had expected.
43:22And that is not only impacting grid, you know, grid balancing, but it is also impacting EV and, you know,
43:30bigger vehicles adopting the electricity as a fuel.
43:35What is your thought process that, you know, now commodity prices are again, you know, high?
43:41Is there any breakthrough research we all should look at, which can actually bring down the cost?
43:48Or scale of economy like India, which can offer, that can bring down the cost?
43:54So how we should, you know, as our observers, we should look at, you know, this graph?
44:01Yeah. I think when you look at battery prices not coming out, you know, down further to a desired level,
44:09I think they've played their role.
44:11That's what I believe, you know. Again, we've seen battery prices at the level they were.
44:17They've played their part in terms of decline and making EVs economical.
44:21We're already seeing EVs at cost parity when it comes to, like, the full life cycle.
44:27And I think that is something which is very critical.
44:29And add to that social and environmental costs that, you know, we are kind of reducing,
44:34it's a pure, you know, economic case to be shifting to EVs.
44:39And more so we've seen that in the sales of, you know, electric three-wheelers right now.
44:44They are making so much economic sense, so much business sense that, you know, now we're seeing every second,
44:50you know, three-wheeler being sold in India being electric.
44:54And that really is showing that, you know, the cost economics is in favor.
44:58Where we need more innovation, more creativity, I don't think it is so much now on the battery price decline
45:04that we have to wait for it to go further.
45:07I think where is need for more innovation and creativity is around, you know, financing.
45:11You know, how do we finance, especially now that we are seeing the bigger segments,
45:16like electric trucks, et cetera, at the, you know, at that nascency and having that potential to kick off.
45:21We need more creativity there in terms of, you know, how do we, you know, de-risk really EV as
45:28a commodity,
45:28EV as a product so that financiers can look that, you know, as something that they can trust as a
45:35technology,
45:36they can trust their customers.
45:38So I think financing is one play just to kind of, you know, scale where we will need a lot
45:43of, you know, work.
45:44That is, that will be critical.
45:46The second important thing will be around charging infrastructure.
45:49I think still it is coming to bite us in terms of what, you know, how do I operate,
45:55especially for inter kind of city movement. So charging will be another place.
46:00Now, what does this mean? Do we just keep on building every two kilometer, three kilometer,
46:05every 25 kilometer on highway or again, we just kind of, you know, find what is an optimum
46:10kind of charging infrastructure that can really support.
46:14And again, I think every time we look at it as a public infrastructure problem, a big part of it
46:20is, you know,
46:21the solution lies in community charging, charging at home, charging at workplaces.
46:25I think those are areas where I feel there is need for establishing, like, you know, models that work,
46:33that not just work, that they also start working at scale.
46:37And I think the last thing I'll say is that, you know, while we've seen progress in EVs in pockets
46:42of the country,
46:43I think there are still big parts of our country which are lagging behind.
46:47So how that, you know, how do we also kind of take them along in terms of adoption of electric
46:51vehicles?
46:53Yogan, you have been, you know, very patiently hearing this conversation and I, you know, diligently allowed it also.
47:01But now, you know, the last word, you know, belongs to the editor.
47:07You have heard them all.
47:09You know, we all want, you know, the cleaner fuel to come forward and, you know, help us in, you
47:16know, get an easy breathe.
47:17How do you see, you know, the electric vehicles taking shape in the next five to ten years?
47:24When do you think that they will be more affordable vis-a-vis petrol, diesel, ICE engines?
47:33Thirdly, when do you think that, you know, people will get more confident of buying electric vehicles?
47:43Especially right now, you know, there's a price differential also that EV vehicles are slightly costlier than their other counterparts.
47:52So what is your foreseeable, what do you see in foreseeable future?
47:59So we've discussed a lot on the macro level and coming down to EV user.
48:07I think the one thing to keep in mind is why EVs cost a lot because of the battery and
48:14the size of the battery.
48:15Why do we need such a big battery?
48:17Because we don't have a charging infrastructure that everybody can be confident of going anywhere and finding charging wherever they
48:24need it.
48:25So instead of carrying this, you know, big battery everywhere, we can scale down the size of the battery, the
48:34cost of EVs comes down massively.
48:37And when people are buying ICE vehicles, I don't think the conversation ever was, what is the size of the
48:44fuel tank?
48:44You know, everybody thought, okay, 30 litres, 40 litres, whatever it is for the size of the vehicle.
48:51Nobody used to question the size of the fuel tank.
48:53I mean, we need to question the size of the battery because there's a lack of charging infrastructure.
48:57And we cannot fill up wherever we want to.
49:00So that cost can come down immediately.
49:03And while on the macro level, people are elaborating policy and some of them are very good.
49:10But as an EV user, there are still lots of challenges.
49:13I mean, roads are being developed, new great highways.
49:16But I've been on many of them and I have not found charging infrastructure to keep pace with the expanding
49:23network of roads.
49:24You have a spanking, beautiful, new expressway, Delhi to Jaipur.
49:30And then, first of all, you see one CNG filling station and there's a huge queue.
49:35And then you're wondering where the EV charger is and you don't find one.
49:38Then the next time, you know, four months down the line, you're driving down the same road,
49:44then you find a charging station, but it is only for buses.
49:48You know, so it is still taking a lot of time.
49:52I mean, why can't we have a charging infrastructure to come up as, and then the roads are also coming
49:56up.
49:58The other problem is that as an EV user, while there might be lots of incentives and charging points,
50:05like we did a story in the magazine and Delhi government had announced,
50:09oh, we've set up so many hundred charging stations in the initial phase and, you know,
50:13and we said, okay, let's try and find these charging stations.
50:16Many of them were behind closed doors.
50:18Many of them were at parking lots where you couldn't take your vehicle to charge it.
50:22I mean, impossible in the, I remember, way back at the Khan market parking,
50:28there used to be two charging points and you couldn't get to them.
50:32I mean, how do you charge your vehicle?
50:33So then Delhi had a very good policy of having subsidized electricity for charging EVs.
50:42And, but getting that connection was a nightmare.
50:45I had so many people, you know, saying, how do we make it happen?
50:48And it was impossible to make it happen.
50:50So another…
50:54I'm sure you are now sharing Chet with Dr. Nidhi that, you know,
50:59what she and her colleagues need to do in Delhi.
51:01But again, thanks…
51:03Yeah, just one more thing.
51:04I mean, yes, setting up a good charging infrastructure is fantastic.
51:08But the cost of electricity at this… at these charging points is many times what normal electricity is.
51:17I mean, is there some balance to that?
51:20Can we… are we going to…
51:22There is another challenge, Yogi and I can add on it.
51:26You know, many of the players who have, you know, these charging stations,
51:30they are not manned.
51:32They are, you know, automatic.
51:34Or not automatic, how do you say…
51:36Yeah, self…
51:37Self…
51:37Self-charging stations.
51:38So that was another thing that…
51:39So many people don't know how to, you know, put it and, you know, get it done.
51:43So many of those…
51:43So that also becomes a challenge.
51:44This is very European model or American model.
51:47In India, you require a helper, you know, who could help you.
51:50Many of the charging points that were initially set up by…
51:53And that can also create jobs.
51:54They were vandalized.
51:55So, I mean, yeah, you would go to them and they were not operational.
52:00The charging guns had been broken off, taken away.
52:02So, I am sure your points are taken by Mehmood Ji, Sujata and Nidhi Ji.
52:08Thanks, Yogi.
52:09Thanks, everyone.
52:10Thanks for this…
52:12Listening to this wonderful conversations.
52:14…
52:14…
52:14…
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