00:01Well, Minister, thanks very much for joining the ABC.
00:04We're a fair way away from your homeland.
00:07Why have you made the very long journey out to Australia?
00:10Yes, indeed.
00:11After 10 years, the Estonian Foreign Minister is visiting Australia.
00:14But we have very practical issues.
00:16It's about foreign policy.
00:17Of course, the Russian aggression against Ukraine is something which is defining our
00:22regional security, and Australia is a really great supporter of Ukraine, but also a very
00:28tense situation in the Middle East, the question about the rule of law globally.
00:33So this is very important to discuss.
00:35As well, bilaterally, we have an issue about the rare earth metals and magnets.
00:40And it is a well-kept secret in the world, and as well in Estonia, that Estonia is actually
00:45producing the largest scale of rare earth metals and magnets outside of China in the world.
00:51And Australia, of course, the leading country in the world about mining and resources.
00:55So we look for the cooperation here as well.
00:58Now, you've talked quite a lot in your short visit here about Ukraine and questions around
01:03Russia's aggression.
01:04These are, of course, existential questions for your nation as well.
01:08You've brought up this proposal of effectively banning combatants or former combatants from
01:12Russia from entering EU countries.
01:14Why is that important?
01:16And do you think there are risks here for Australia as well?
01:19Yes, we have put the initiative on the table in Europe about Schengen visa regime, countries
01:25to create a blacklist of Russian combatants right now.
01:29We are talking about hundreds of thousands of combatants.
01:32We will probably come to Europe, supported by Russia, and we will commit very bad things.
01:37And as well, the target is the free world anyways.
01:41It may as well be Australia.
01:43So we introduce our initiative to the Australian government as well.
01:46Maybe they would like to join.
01:48Why do you think this is such a risk here, as I understand it, that former fighters might
01:53be exploited by Russian intelligence to commit things like sabotage?
01:57Is that the sort of risk that you're talking about?
01:59Absolutely.
01:59It is already happening in Europe.
02:01We see it, not only in the Baltic states, but Germany, UK, everywhere else, and definitely
02:06Putin wants to get rid of these bad guys in the future and will be supportive of them
02:12to enter the free world countries.
02:14Now, you said last night, I think, that Europe had been a bit of a – I think I'm using
02:19the right words – fat, lazy cat in the wake of the Cold War, in the sunlit-up lands
02:25of the 1990s.
02:27What sort of complacency do you think we saw in Europe in the wake of the Berlin Wall coming
02:34down?
02:35And what sort of frustration did it cause countries like yours?
02:39Yes, of course, we see that Russia is an aggressive country already two decades, and
02:44nobody believed that.
02:45And now Europe has been waken up.
02:47And unfortunately, it was not only Putin who woke up Europe.
02:51It was as well President Trump who said very clearly that if Europe is not investing more
02:56heavily to its defence and also not taking more responsibilities, the very strong connection
03:02to the US is not unconditional anymore.
03:05And from our perspective as a bordering country with Russia, we are, of course, happy about
03:11this pressure.
03:12Now we have decided around NATO members to invest 5% of GDP.
03:17And as well, if you see the situation in Ukraine, we see that actually we need to bring Ukraine
03:23into Europe.
03:24Europe must be stronger.
03:26And as well, of course, now Ukraine needs our support and Australian support.
03:30But in the future, Ukraine will be actually delivering the security guarantees to our region
03:36as well.
03:36So we need to see that this kind of grey areas or neutrality countries between NATO and Russia
03:43is just a green light for the further aggression of Russia in the future.
03:47So Europe is doing much, much more.
03:50As well about trade.
03:51I do hope that this free trade agreement will be signed soon with Australia.
03:56But Europe is strong.
03:57But we must be having more self-confidence as well.
04:00When you talk about the need for, essentially, countries that were in these grey zones to
04:06come into NATO, and Ukraine is the most obvious, why do you believe that creates more security
04:10rather than less?
04:11Because, as you know, there's a school of thought that if you have a buffer zone between
04:15the West and Russia, that creates a little bit more breathing room.
04:19You believe it's actually the opposite?
04:20Absolutely the opposite.
04:22And we see from the history, Georgia 2008, it started.
04:27Georgia was very close to becoming a member of NATO, as with getting the MAP, the Membership
04:32Action Plan, as well took the path towards the European Union, as well Ukraine in 2014.
04:38And also Putin published his plan already in 2007 during the Munich Security Conference.
04:44And he said very clearly that he is going to eliminate the root causes.
04:48Root causes was the collapse of the Soviet Union.
04:50So restoration of the Soviet Empire is something, it's a public plan.
04:54So, we must put very clear red lines where the free world is and where is a dictatorship.
05:02And also we must keep these red lines, and we must back up them with real power, and we
05:08have these opportunities.
05:10Putin doesn't want to have only some territories of Ukraine.
05:13He came after Ukraine, and he's coming after some European countries as well, if we are not
05:18putting the line there.
05:19Foreign Minister, thanks very much for speaking to the ABC.
05:22We appreciate it.
05:23Thank you very much.
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