00:11It's the 11th day of the Israeli and American bombing of Iran and the US Secretary of Defense
00:17says today is to be the most intense day of strikes yet. Pete Hegseth making those comments
00:24during a briefing at the Pentagon this Tuesday alongside the chairman of the Joint Chiefs
00:28Dan Kane who said that more than 5,000 targets in Iran have now been hit. Now in response
00:35Iran is continuing to fire missiles at Israel and at the Gulf states of Bahrain, the UAE
00:41and Qatar although Hegseth today claiming the number of Iranian attacks is tailing off.
00:49Today will be yet again our most intense day of strikes inside Iran. The most fighters,
00:57the most bombers, the most strikes. Intelligence more refined and better than ever. So that's on one
01:05hand. On the other hand, the last 24 hours have seen Iran fire the lowest number of missiles they've
01:12been capable of firing yet. Well to unpack that a press conference by Pete Hegseth. I'm pleased to be
01:19joined now live by David Townley from the University of Portsmouth in the United Kingdom. Hello to you and
01:25thanks for speaking to us here on Around the World. Good afternoon. Thanks for having me.
01:31Look, did we get a clearer sense then from the Secretary of Defence as to what America's strategy
01:39is 11 days in? I would say no. I would say we certainly know very clearly what its military
01:48objectives are. Both he and Chairman Cain spoke about the essentially the three main aims which
01:56were to destroy any sort of capabilities that Iran has in essentially launching missiles at its
02:05neighbours and at any American targets in the region as well to destroy the Iranian navy and
02:11to degrade its military industry because it's not just about being able to launch the missiles but
02:18actually being able to produce them as well. So that's essentially the three main aims. Wrapped up
02:23within that as well is this notion that it's about trying to stop Iran gaining any sort of nuclear
02:29weapons but that's sort of added on to those three main aims that have been there from the start. In
02:34terms of its strategic objectives, what Hexer told us was a great deal of what the conflict isn't or at
02:42least what the White House is aiming it not to be, which is a protracted conflict. One that is,
02:49as he mentions the word, quagmire for example. He mentions the word nation building. There was a lot of
02:55reflection back to the invasion of Iraq in 2003 by George W. Bush and the continued operation under
03:03Barack Obama. But like the recent polls, 62% of Americans were still unsure of what the actual
03:11political objective of this operation is. Is it about regime change because that's been achieved to a
03:18certain degree? Or is this about getting the Iranians to come forward and sign up to some sort of
03:26nuclear deal? Because again, we're not still not quite sure of that. Or is there a third option
03:31on this that we're simply not aware of yet? And so until we are fully cognizant of what's going on,
03:37I think we're still sort of trying to unpack what Hexer and Trump and Cain are saying.
03:44And look, Hegseth was asked very directly there, do the strategies of the United States here,
03:50the extent to which they're clear at all, align with the Israeli strategies? Let's just have a
03:56listen to what Hegseth said about that. Israel's been a really strong partner in this effort. Where
04:04they have different objectives, they've pursued them. Ultimately, we've stayed focused on ours. But
04:10when Iran, what Iran has felt is the power of the world's two most powerful air forces.
04:14In that particular case, that wasn't our, those weren't our strikes, or that wasn't our,
04:19necessarily our objective. But the President has made it clear to those concerns that we're not
04:24getting pulled in any direction, we're leading, the President is leading, he's determining where we
04:29want to go, what the outcome will be, what the end state is.
04:33So, Daphid Townley, you know, Hexer saying there, look, the US is leading, we're not being pulled in
04:39one direction by Israel. Do you think that that, his argument there stands up to scrutiny?
04:47I think it's the same with most coalition forces, that they do have political objectives that differ
04:53from one nation to another. I think ultimately, both sides want to have, essentially, an Iran that
05:00does not offer a threat either to Israel, but also to the wider region. What's, in terms of
05:08how they achieve that, they will have shared objectives in terms of targeting. But in terms
05:13of strategic objectives, I think, ultimately, they're both trying to minimize the impact that
05:19Iran can have. Now, whether that is, from the United States perspective, a sort of broader
05:24geopolitical view, whereas Israel certainly can be focused on Iran's persistent threat to Israel
05:32as its neighbor. So, Iran will pose a different threat to Israel than it does to the United States,
05:39and so they will have different objectives. That's quite standard in this sort of operation.
05:44Well, let's talk then, again, then, if we may, about what might happen next in terms of Israel
05:51and the U.S.'s sort of differing objectives. Donald Trump yesterday, the U.S. president,
05:57saying, look, the war is, quote, very much complete. I mean, he's obviously under domestic pressure.
06:04We saw that turmoil on the oil markets yesterday. Could we then see a situation where
06:11America wraps this up in one form or another? Donald Trump sort of claims mission accomplished,
06:16whatever that means, and Israel keeps going?
06:21This is a message that Hexer would continue to push forward today. You mentioned, you know,
06:25that everything the United States was being done on its own timeline, that Trump would determine
06:30when the United States has met its objectives. Of course, you know, I would suggest they haven't
06:36gone into this with a long-term campaign plan that lasts, you know, several months or even several
06:42years. This is something that they want to do in terms of a limited strike. Remember,
06:46they've got November elections coming up, and the Republican Party are not going to want to be
06:52embroiled in a long-term conflict going into those elections cycles. So it's very unclear as to,
07:01as I said, as to what the actual victory looks like. There's no idea what the exit strategy is
07:06in terms of how the United States withdraws from the region, what Iran looks like after the conflict.
07:12It would certainly need some sort of reconstruction. We can see from the pictures that, you know,
07:17there's already considerable infrastructure damage that society has been affected in many ways.
07:23But I would be careful to suggest that this is, you know, essentially the military side of this might be
07:31finished as far as Trump is concerned, but the political objectives are a long way off. You know,
07:36to get an Iran that is essentially complacent, competent and au fait with what the Americans want
07:48is going to be a long journey to get to that position. Right. And as has become painfully clear
07:56for the United States over the past 11 days, look, Iran is not Venezuela. I mean, it's an ideological
08:04regime. And even if you decapitate and kill the leader, the regime sort of hobbles on. And that does
08:12seem to be what we're looking at now. Yeah, absolutely. You know, even after 10 and a half
08:21days of of considerable bombing of the area and of cities, this is still going to be a nation that
08:30is
08:30ultimately resistant to American pressure, as long as it can be. We've seen from not just the regime,
08:37but we've seen interviews with people on the streets, for example, that, you know, where they are
08:42able to get out in the streets, that they are still quite belligerent in their attitudes towards
08:45the United States. It's going to take a very long time to change generations of attitudes towards
08:52the United States and the West. And essentially bombing, you know, a nation is not going to change
08:58attitudes. It will, it might change regimes, but it will not change the national opinion of what the
09:03United States and the West is to them. And just look, a final question for you. If Trump does wrap
09:08this up, say mission accomplished and that America's out, I mean, there's no guarantee
09:12that Iran stops its campaign, is there? I mean, we may well see what more attacks are on the Gulf,
09:18do you think, in the weeks ahead, irrespective of what Washington does?
09:23Well, I certainly think that we may see a resumption of Iran's supported terrorism
09:30in the future. You know, it's not necessarily, it might not happen in the next few months,
09:33might be a long term plan. We might well see the resumption of issues regarding its neighbors over
09:43the long term. I mean, in terms of, you know, this is started essentially because Trump has withdrawn
09:49from the nuclear deal back in his first term, because no longer was the United States able to
09:55monitor the progress or be able to influence the Iranian nuclear program.
10:02And so what we've seen instead is rather than find a political solution,
10:06this Trump administration has used the military to try and gain their own position
10:13by essentially bombing Iran into submission. And that's not really going to work. We see,
10:19you know, we were told last year with the bombing of the uranium enrichment facilities that this was the
10:26end of the uranium nuclear program. But suddenly, less than 12 months on, it's, it was a, you know,
10:33a very real and clear and present danger to the United States.
10:37All right, Daphid Townley talking to us there from the University of Portsmouth. Thanks very much.
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