How Suno's AI Model Is Disrupting the Music Business w/ CEO Mikey Shulman | Billboard On The Record

4 hours ago

Suno is now generating 7 million songs a day — how will that change the music industry? Mikey Shulman, CEO and co-founder of Suno, joins Billboard On The Record to explain how he built the popular — but controversial — AI music company. Suno can generate new songs in seconds, and it has become the hottest topic in the music industry. In the interview, Shulman explains how Suno is being adopted by "Grammy winners" and "grandmothers" alike. He discusses the songwriting camps the company has been putting on, its private VIP program, new features like Hooks — its TikTok-like social media feed — and why he doesn't see himself selling the start-up to an AI giant down the line. Shulman also talks about Suno's new deal with Warner Music Group, why he feels training on music without a license is legal and why he believes record labels still matter.

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Transcript

00:00:00Suno. It's the most controversial new company in music since Spotify, or maybe even Napster.

00:00:07Already generating 7 million songs a day, according to an investor pitch deck,

00:00:11Suno has quickly become a frontrunner in the AI music race.

00:00:14But it's also made its fair share of enemies along the way.

00:00:17That's because Suno's model is currently trained on copyrighted songs without a license.

00:00:21They say that's fair use. The music industry begs to differ.

00:00:25But now, Suno has agreed to relaunch its model sometime later this year,

00:00:29using only licensed songs for training.

00:00:31But is that enough to make the music industry forgive and forget?

00:00:34To talk through this pivotal moment in music, I'm joined today by Suno CEO Mikey Shulman

00:00:39in this special companion episode of our Billboard cover story on the AI music company, Out Today.

00:00:49Mikey Shulman, welcome to On The Record. Thank you so much for being here.

00:00:52So happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

00:00:54Okay, so this is your first Grammy week.

00:00:56It is.

00:00:56How's it been?

00:00:58Exhausting, but also a lot of fun.

00:01:01Also learning a lot.

00:01:03Yeah, great experience.

00:01:04Yeah.

00:01:04So I saw you yesterday.

00:01:06So I'm setting the scene here for our listeners that this is during Grammy week,

00:01:10because this will come out in a month.

00:01:12And in AI world, a lot can change in a month.

00:01:14So just in case something changes, this is where we're at right now.

00:01:18It's like end of January, start of February.

00:01:20Okay, so I went by Suno's songwriting camp yesterday,

00:01:24which you've been running throughout the week, which has been really interesting.

00:01:27And you're kind of inviting people in to go and see the process.

00:01:30And I'm wondering how many of these songwriting camps have you guys been doing?

00:01:35And why is that important to your strategy as a company?

00:01:38We've probably done a dozen or so.

00:01:43Not all here.

00:01:44Some in New York.

00:01:45It's a ton of fun to be there, to be around creatives.

00:01:49But it's also, it's an amazing way to learn, actually from both sides,

00:01:55for us to learn about how the best of the best use Suno.

00:02:00It's inspiring for us and also helps us build better products.

00:02:04And for us to also show instead of tell,

00:02:08how Suno is an incredible tool for creativity.

00:02:10And so I know that yesterday it was led by like Omos.

00:02:15Is it usually that you get like a songwriter or producer to kind of curate a room?

00:02:18Or are you guys just kind of pulling from your list of people

00:02:21that you already know are interested in Suno and inviting them in?

00:02:24There's a few different flavors.

00:02:25I don't think there's one rule.

00:02:27But a songwriter or producer who has a vision to make a song or an album is a great goal.

00:02:35We don't even necessarily need to finish the song or the album.

00:02:37A lot of good stuff we'll have in there.

00:02:39Often we do.

00:02:40Usually we do.

00:02:41But that's not the only way.

00:02:42You know, and that knowledge share can happen in lots of different ways

00:02:46when you have the right group of people around.

00:02:49Yeah.

00:02:49And I mean, the thing that really struck me about that camp,

00:02:52because I got to sit in the room and watch some of the best musicians,

00:02:55top musicians in the world work using Suno.

00:02:59And Omos was telling me, he was like, we made this song in 30 minutes.

00:03:03And it was start to finish.

00:03:05It sounded like a fully finished master recording that you could use for anything.

00:03:10And interestingly for them, they were essentially starting with a prompt with lyrics.

00:03:14And then they were re-recording each of the bits with session musicians.

00:03:19And then I ended up kind of hearing the final product there.

00:03:22But the fact that you could do that in 30 minutes, I think really blew my mind.

00:03:26And some of the other folks who are also visiting the camp's minds.

00:03:30Because if you get to a point where, like, that's what songwriting camps are,

00:03:36where you can whip through these songs in 30 minutes and have these fully finished masters,

00:03:40I just think about the implications for the entire industry.

00:03:43The output is going to be so much greater.

00:03:46And so I'm curious what you think of an artist's career, like maybe five,

00:03:5210 years down the line once AI becomes a more normalized part of the songwriting process.

00:03:57Are artists going to be just whipping out songs and releasing songs more quickly than ever?

00:04:02Or do you foresee artists still being very intentional and slow with their choices

00:04:08on what they release and what they don't release?

00:04:10I think it's going to be much more intentional.

00:04:12I think a lot of people are going to release songs.

00:04:14And, you know, Omos can make a song in 30 minutes.

00:04:16I certainly cannot.

00:04:17You know, the best of the best can do that.

00:04:19But what that means is not just more.

00:04:20It means the highs are better.

00:04:22And it means that the point of view that the artist is trying to bring to something

00:04:27can actually be more curated if you're willing to be patient.

00:04:29And so, yes, there's going to be a lot more music in five or 10 years.

00:04:33It's super not obvious to me that it just means artists are going to be

00:04:38putting out records every day or every week.

00:04:40You know, I think it means they'll be making a lot more music,

00:04:41but not necessarily releasing a lot more music.

00:04:43Yeah, yeah, that's possible.

00:04:45And I mean, there are going to be some holdouts five, 10 years in the future.

00:04:49I know there's holdouts right now who are not interested in using AI as part of

00:04:53their process, but it seems so clear to me that it speeds up the process so much

00:04:57and ups your output.

00:05:00Do you think that there will still be five to 10 years from now competitive artists

00:05:05that do not use AI at all in their process?

00:05:09At all at all?

00:05:10I think in five or 10 years, there's going to be little bits of AI everywhere.

00:05:14The same way there's little bits of digital production everywhere.

00:05:18And no one thought that would be a thing 50 years ago.

00:05:20And there's little bits of autotune almost everywhere, even though no one thought

00:05:24that would be a thing.

00:05:25And probably when you go back and you listen to a song that doesn't have it,

00:05:30you can hear it.

00:05:30And, you know, it sounds beautiful in that way.

00:05:33And so I think it's going to be in a lot of stuff.

00:05:36But I do think that just like you find it or I find it beautiful to sometimes have

00:05:41something that's not autotuned.

00:05:42And there will be some people who want to do it the old way.

00:05:46And that's great.

00:05:47You know, we are not trying to make anyone do anything.

00:05:50Yeah.

00:05:50And I'm wondering if you could give us a little bit of background about Suno,

00:05:53because I think for a lot of folks who don't follow the space very closely,

00:05:57it kind of feels like Suno disappeared out of nowhere.

00:06:01So tell me about developing the product with your co-founders in that very inception of Suno.

00:06:05We released the product about three years ago.

00:06:07When we did, it was barely passable.

00:06:10You know, you had to have really forgiving ears and you had to be willing to

00:06:15basically ignore a lot of defects in it.

00:06:18And at the beginning, actually, we could only do 12 seconds of music at a time.

00:06:23And that has just an entirely different use case if you can only do 12 seconds at a time.

00:06:28It's not exactly, you know, the proverbial three guys in a garage,

00:06:32but we were four co-founders working out of one of our houses.

00:06:37And we thought this would be too hard.

00:06:39And we started to build a different product.

00:06:41And when we realized that this wasn't too hard and we started to do it,

00:06:45and we would just stay up really late making music with these things because we love it.

00:06:49And yes, we had the forgiving ears at the beginning to be able to

00:06:52appreciate those crappy 12-second clips and just keep building and building and release the product.

00:07:00It was obvious pretty quickly that people really loved it, even when the music was not as good.

00:07:04And it's because not only is it a new toy for people to play with,

00:07:08which is always fun and a novelty item as a reason to try it, let's say,

00:07:12but we realized very quickly people love making music.

00:07:15Everybody loves making music.

00:07:16And when you give people new ways to do that, that is more accessible.

00:07:19You attract everyone.

00:07:21You attract Grammy winners and you attract grandmothers.

00:07:22And that's amazing.

00:07:25And we saw community build pretty quickly.

00:07:30And that told us we were onto something.

00:07:32And, okay, correct me if I'm wrong.

00:07:34Wasn't there, like, did you drop it on Discord first or something?

00:07:37Okay, yeah.

00:07:37Why?

00:07:39You know, it's funny.

00:07:40Probably two reasons.

00:07:41One is there's a tool called MidJourney.

00:07:43I don't know if you're familiar with it,

00:07:44which was an image-making bot that was on Discord and had a lot of users.

00:07:51And it's an easy thing to copy that model.

00:07:56But the other thing is Discord was an incredible way to get a product to market very quickly.

00:08:01We don't have to build a UI, a user interface.

00:08:03We don't have to build anything fancy.

00:08:05And it has a community built into it.

00:08:07You have in the same place people using the product

00:08:09and people talking about the product

00:08:11and people giving us feedback about the product.

00:08:13And that was immensely helpful.

00:08:15And as that grew, and that grew to hundreds of thousands of people pretty quickly,

00:08:19and then it's actually an exercise in curation of filtering out all of the noise

00:08:23because hundreds of thousands of people giving you feedback all at once is a little bit tricky.

00:08:27But that turned out to be incredibly useful at the beginning.

00:08:29And so many insights that we had at the beginning were because of that community.

00:08:34Okay, so y'all went into this hoping to make a music model

00:08:37but weren't sure if it was possible yet.

00:08:39I mean, a lot of people, I remember back in, like, 2022,

00:08:43two or so were talking about how music was still going to be pretty far away with generative AI.

00:08:47It was going to be very complex and difficult.

00:08:50But you guys did it.

00:08:52But I'm wondering why, because, you know,

00:08:58I think a lot of investors look at the music industry

00:09:01and think there's not much money to be made there.

00:09:03It's not a super sound investment.

00:09:05Why did you guys know that you wanted to pursue that tough path of being a music technology company?

00:09:12There's something really important about following the thing that you want to do.

00:09:16And there's a zillion companies building exactly what they think investors want.

00:09:20And that sounds boring, honestly.

00:09:22Building the thing that you want to build.

00:09:25That's, like, ultimately, like, this is hard, building a company in any domain.

00:09:28And ultimately, like, that's what keeps you excited about it every single day.

00:09:32Because, yeah, there's lots of hard parts.

00:09:33And so I don't know if it was, like, a conscious thing of, like,

00:09:38I don't think there was ever sitting down and saying,

00:09:42well, investors don't think music is a big business.

00:09:44Should we do it anyway?

00:09:45It was, that wasn't even, like, a discussion.

00:09:47It was just, like, of course we're going to do it.

00:09:49Yeah. And all of you play music in some form or fashion, right?

00:09:53And, in fact, at our last job, we all worked together.

00:09:57We used to have jam sessions in my co-founder's basement,

00:09:59like, just to blow off steam after work.

00:10:01There's your garage moment.

00:10:03That is the garage moment.

00:10:04That is not the inception of the company.

00:10:05You know, we were still working there for a few more years.

00:10:07But we just, we were making music together.

00:10:09And making music with your friends is really fun.

00:10:12Yeah. And what's your instrument?

00:10:14I play bass best.

00:10:16I play a little bit of piano.

00:10:17I took a lot of lessons growing up.

00:10:19And I'm, like, okay.

00:10:21Yeah.

00:10:22And, okay, so, Suno recently, at the end of 2025,

00:10:26made a deal with Warner Music Group,

00:10:28which was a huge deal when the news dropped.

00:10:31This settled Warner's part of a lawsuit

00:10:34that the three major music companies filed against Suno,

00:10:36as well as a similar lawsuit against UDO in summer 2024.

00:10:41I'm wondering why Warner was the one

00:10:44that you came to a deal with first.

00:10:46You know, I'm not sure we're the right people

00:10:49to ask that question to.

00:10:50There may be other people to ask that question to.

00:10:52But, you know, I think we see them just as incredible

00:10:55long-term thinking partners

00:10:56and people willing to try to figure out the future together.

00:10:59Because, like you said, it is a really fast-moving space.

00:11:02Nobody knows exactly what the future is going to look like.

00:11:04But having partners who are not only willing,

00:11:07but excited to figure that out together is amazing.

00:11:10On that, you know, something that I hear a lot,

00:11:13this is my first Grammys week,

00:11:15it's like everyone says,

00:11:16well, we know AI is coming.

00:11:18And I really attempt to not think that way

00:11:21because it may even be true,

00:11:23but you want to feel like you're not sitting back helpless

00:11:28and this thing is coming

00:11:29and it's either going to be amazing or terrible.

00:11:31Like, there's human agency here

00:11:32and we can shape the future

00:11:33and we can make it good for everybody.

00:11:35Or we cannot shape it and kind of roll the dice.

00:11:38And so having a partner

00:11:39who very much wants to do the first one is really good.

00:11:41I know that in previous big music tech deals

00:11:44between the majors and like Spotify, for example,

00:11:47and other big tech companies,

00:11:49the majors have sometimes been able to get equity.

00:11:52Does Warner have any equity in Suno?

00:11:54I think it's a little early to discuss

00:11:55like the particulars of the partnership,

00:11:59but stay tuned.

00:12:00I think later this year, more will come.

00:12:01And as part of that deal,

00:12:03you guys are going to relaunch Suno at some point in 2026,

00:12:08relaunch your model with licensed music

00:12:10that has opted in.

00:12:12And right now there's only the deal with Warner.

00:12:15I'm curious, as this develops,

00:12:18I mean, is there a potential

00:12:19that Suno could be left in a tough spot

00:12:21if let's say Universal and Sony don't decide to make deals?

00:12:25And then, you know, I mean,

00:12:28how many songs do you need to opt in

00:12:29to make the model just as great as before?

00:12:32Or are you concerned about making deals in time

00:12:35for this relaunch?

00:12:37You know, it's a really good question.

00:12:40I don't think I can give you a straightforward answer

00:12:42how many songs you need.

00:12:43And it's a funny thing.

00:12:45Every model launch,

00:12:47I think it's somewhat obvious

00:12:48that things have gotten a lot better.

00:12:50Every model.

00:12:51And there's always people who miss the old model

00:12:53when we do a new model launch.

00:12:55And so I'm sure that that will happen again.

00:12:57But we feel very good about

00:12:59what we're going to build together with Warner.

00:13:01Truthfully, I think the...

00:13:04You know, people ask me a lot.

00:13:06They assume that we think at Suno

00:13:08that, like, the record labels don't matter.

00:13:10The big music companies matter.

00:13:12They matter a lot.

00:13:12And so you want to partner

00:13:14with the biggest companies in the industry

00:13:16not because they have a lot of music

00:13:18but because they are, like,

00:13:19culturally extremely important.

00:13:21And so I think that is really the thing

00:13:23that we think much more about

00:13:24and not exactly how many songs there are.

00:13:27But I imagine there, like,

00:13:28has to be some sort of a ballpark number

00:13:30of how many songs you need

00:13:32and how many different genres you need

00:13:33in order to make a music model

00:13:34that really can capture the breadth

00:13:38that is popular music.

00:13:40It's really hard to say.

00:13:42Like, more is always better.

00:13:43It's really hard to give definitive answers here.

00:13:45And whenever you change anything,

00:13:47some things get better

00:13:47and some things get worse.

00:13:49Okay, so that's interesting.

00:13:51So, like, sometimes when you're working on a model,

00:13:52it's possible that you think

00:13:53you're making an improvement

00:13:54and then you test it out

00:13:55and it's like, oh, wait, that's not right.

00:13:57I need to go back to the drawing board.

00:13:58That happens every day.

00:13:59Okay.

00:13:59And even more than that,

00:14:01we'll have a model

00:14:02and we can do a test

00:14:03and we can know this new model is better.

00:14:06And there will still always be people

00:14:07who prefer the old horse model.

00:14:09And so, and it's because music is not,

00:14:13there's no right answer.

00:14:14It's not a problem to solve.

00:14:15Yeah, I guess it's not perfect.

00:14:16Right?

00:14:16You and I are not going to agree on every song.

00:14:18That's to be expected, you know?

00:14:20And you can take that as a problem

00:14:23or you can take that as a challenge.

00:14:24And it is a challenge

00:14:26and this is art

00:14:26and there are no right answers

00:14:27and you can lean into it

00:14:28and you can try to make tools and models

00:14:32that make beautiful music.

00:14:33Yeah.

00:14:34There's this great Brian Eno quote.

00:14:36I don't know if you've ever heard it.

00:14:37I'm going to butcher it right now

00:14:38because I don't know it off the top of my head

00:14:39but it was something about how

00:14:41like whenever there's new technology

00:14:43it doesn't sound perfect at first

00:14:45or it doesn't look perfect at first

00:14:47depending on whatever it is.

00:14:48But eventually as it becomes perfected

00:14:50people start to yearn for

00:14:53kind of like the early

00:14:55messed up stuff

00:14:57at the beginning.

00:14:58Like it's like I look back

00:15:00at the Lil Yachty cover

00:15:01that was AI generated

00:15:03and it's like when the faces

00:15:04don't look good at all

00:15:06and the hands have like 20 fingers on them

00:15:08and all that stuff.

00:15:09I'm really curious to see

00:15:11just in the future

00:15:12if people start to

00:15:14be interested in the sound

00:15:16of early AI music

00:15:18or early

00:15:19or the look of early AI images.

00:15:22We'll see how it develops.

00:15:24But I mean

00:15:24Brian Eno said it's probably right.

00:15:26So yeah, let's just wait

00:15:27and it'll happen.

00:15:28Yeah, we'll just assume

00:15:30that he's correct on all things.

00:15:31We see it actually.

00:15:33We see people

00:15:34I forget who taught me this

00:15:35but to how to prompt for

00:15:37like

00:15:39vinyl imperfections

00:15:40in Suno.

00:15:41Oh, interesting.

00:15:42Yeah, like the little fuzziness.

00:15:43Exactly, because you want that

00:15:45you want it to sound like

00:15:45a not perfectly kept vinyl.

00:15:48Huh.

00:15:48That's so interesting.

00:15:50Why did Suno launch

00:15:51without licensing

00:15:52any of the music

00:15:53in the first place?

00:15:53You're saying that the

00:15:54major labels are

00:15:55very important

00:15:56and yet

00:15:56you didn't license anything

00:15:58in the beginning.

00:15:59I do have a lot of respect

00:16:00for music.

00:16:01The major labels

00:16:01are very important

00:16:03but what we did is legal

00:16:04and so

00:16:05that's what we did.

00:16:06Well then why settle

00:16:07if you feel like

00:16:08you could win the lawsuit?

00:16:09I don't think

00:16:11of what we did

00:16:12as settlement

00:16:12and like

00:16:13I think about this

00:16:14much more as a partnership

00:16:15about being able

00:16:16to build products

00:16:17that we can't build

00:16:18on our own

00:16:18and being able

00:16:19to develop products

00:16:20that we don't know

00:16:21what they should look like yet

00:16:22and to try to do that

00:16:23and push that forward.

00:16:24So it's much more

00:16:26long term

00:16:26and I think

00:16:28a problem that I see

00:16:29sometimes

00:16:30is there are too many

00:16:31let's say

00:16:33exchanges of

00:16:34dollars for IP

00:16:36which is good

00:16:37but is very short term

00:16:38and there are not enough

00:16:39really long term

00:16:40thinking

00:16:40about partnerships

00:16:42between music companies

00:16:43technology companies

00:16:44artists

00:16:45producers

00:16:45like what should

00:16:46the future of music

00:16:47look like?

00:16:49and I think

00:16:51not just us

00:16:52everybody should be

00:16:53thinking about that

00:16:53a little more

00:16:54especially

00:16:54with how much

00:16:56let's say

00:16:56doom and gloom

00:16:57there is about AI

00:16:58in general

00:16:58not just the music.

00:16:59I know that you

00:17:00watched this episode

00:17:01very recently

00:17:01but I recently

00:17:03did an interview

00:17:04for this podcast

00:17:04with Michael Nash

00:17:05the Chief Digital Officer

00:17:06at Universal Music Group

00:17:08and we were talking

00:17:09a lot about

00:17:09what they're looking for

00:17:11when they're making

00:17:11partnerships

00:17:12with AI companies

00:17:13and it was really

00:17:14interesting to hear

00:17:14his insight

00:17:15because I hadn't

00:17:15really gotten

00:17:16to hear that

00:17:17directly from him

00:17:17before

00:17:18one of the things

00:17:19that he talked

00:17:20about quite a bit

00:17:21was the idea

00:17:22of a walled garden

00:17:23so basically

00:17:24a walled garden

00:17:25would be

00:17:25for those who

00:17:26don't know

00:17:27like a user

00:17:28could use

00:17:29AI tools

00:17:30within this

00:17:31like personal

00:17:32sandbox

00:17:32but you can't

00:17:33download the songs

00:17:34and take them out

00:17:35and use them

00:17:36on social media

00:17:36or streaming services

00:17:37or whatever

00:17:38he said that

00:17:39all the AI companies

00:17:40that they have

00:17:41made partnerships

00:17:41with so far

00:17:43have agreed

00:17:44to a walled garden

00:17:45approach

00:17:45I know that

00:17:47so far

00:17:47you know

00:17:48you guys

00:17:48don't have

00:17:48a walled garden

00:17:49have you guys

00:17:50ever considered

00:17:51that option

00:17:51and do you think

00:17:52that it would be

00:17:53feasible to have

00:17:54Suno with a

00:17:55walled garden

00:17:57you know

00:17:57I think this issue

00:17:58is like a little

00:17:58more subtle

00:17:59than just

00:17:59walled garden

00:18:00not walled garden

00:18:01and I think

00:18:02it is

00:18:02it's not black

00:18:03and white

00:18:04it's like

00:18:04what should stay

00:18:05on platform

00:18:05and what should

00:18:06not stay

00:18:06on platform

00:18:07and I think

00:18:08that these

00:18:10like somewhat

00:18:13black and white

00:18:14views of things

00:18:14lack nuance

00:18:15they also really

00:18:16prevent a lot

00:18:17of innovation

00:18:17and ultimately

00:18:19I think

00:18:21users want to do

00:18:22more things

00:18:23with music

00:18:23than they can do

00:18:24right now

00:18:24and we are in

00:18:25the business

00:18:25of trying to

00:18:26delight users

00:18:27with new things

00:18:28that they can do

00:18:28with music

00:18:28and if we don't

00:18:30give people new

00:18:31things

00:18:32they're not going

00:18:33to get to do

00:18:33new things

00:18:33they're not going

00:18:34to want to pay

00:18:35more money

00:18:35for these new

00:18:35experiences

00:18:36and we will not

00:18:37actually be able

00:18:38to move forward

00:18:39grow the music

00:18:40economy

00:18:41and I think

00:18:42in general

00:18:42I understand

00:18:44that music

00:18:44and technology

00:18:45have a checkered

00:18:46past

00:18:46but too much

00:18:48inhibition

00:18:49of innovation

00:18:51ultimately keeps

00:18:52things a lot

00:18:53smaller than

00:18:53they ought to be

00:18:54you know

00:18:54so I think

00:18:56a lot about

00:18:58gaming

00:18:58I don't actually

00:18:59play video games

00:19:00but like

00:19:00in gaming

00:19:01there are so many

00:19:02different things

00:19:02people can do

00:19:03there's like

00:19:04these really long

00:19:05games

00:19:05these really short

00:19:06games

00:19:06these like

00:19:07very surface

00:19:07level games

00:19:08these games

00:19:08you play

00:19:08with your friends

00:19:09these games

00:19:09that you go

00:19:10deep by yourself

00:19:10there's lots

00:19:11of different

00:19:11products out there

00:19:12and there's

00:19:12lots of

00:19:13different

00:19:13business

00:19:13models out

00:19:14there

00:19:14and

00:19:15ultimately

00:19:15that caters

00:19:16to a lot

00:19:16more people

00:19:17in exactly

00:19:18the way

00:19:18that they

00:19:19want

00:19:19and

00:19:20I think

00:19:21there's a lesson

00:19:22there to learn

00:19:22for the music

00:19:23industry

00:19:23of we should

00:19:24be trying

00:19:24to cater

00:19:24to people

00:19:26how they

00:19:27want

00:19:27and yes

00:19:28I understand

00:19:29that there's

00:19:29a balance

00:19:29between what

00:19:30consumers want

00:19:30and what

00:19:31artists want

00:19:31but there's

00:19:32so much

00:19:32room to do

00:19:33things that

00:19:33obviously

00:19:34everybody

00:19:34wants

00:19:35and so

00:19:36that's the

00:19:36vision that we

00:19:37have that is

00:19:37what we are

00:19:38focused on

00:19:39would you

00:19:40ever implement

00:19:41like kind of

00:19:41a closed

00:19:42environment

00:19:42though for

00:19:42Suno

00:19:43completely

00:19:44yeah

00:19:45I think

00:19:46I think

00:19:46that is

00:19:47way smaller

00:19:48than it needs

00:19:49to be

00:19:49yeah

00:19:51and one of the

00:19:51things I've

00:19:52noticed that

00:19:53Suno's really

00:19:54been leaning

00:19:54into recently

00:19:55I had the

00:19:55chance to go

00:19:56to your offices

00:19:57meet some of

00:19:57your employees

00:19:58I met with

00:19:59someone who

00:20:00is curating

00:20:01playlists for

00:20:01you guys

00:20:02and it seems

00:20:03like y'all are

00:20:04leaning into

00:20:04that like

00:20:05the streaming

00:20:06experience

00:20:06the consumption

00:20:07experience

00:20:07within the

00:20:08Suno platform

00:20:09I thought that

00:20:10was really

00:20:10interesting

00:20:11I'm wondering

00:20:12what your

00:20:13goals are

00:20:14with kind of

00:20:14the consumption

00:20:15and streaming

00:20:15side of

00:20:16Suno

00:20:17in general

00:20:18the way I

00:20:19think about

00:20:20this is we

00:20:20want to be

00:20:21building things

00:20:21that have

00:20:22not really

00:20:23been possible

00:20:24before up

00:20:24until like

00:20:25literally today

00:20:25and so

00:20:26the hope

00:20:27is and

00:20:28the strong

00:20:29intention is

00:20:30we're not

00:20:30building a

00:20:31streaming

00:20:32experience that

00:20:32happens to

00:20:33have AI

00:20:33powered music

00:20:34I don't think

00:20:35the world

00:20:35particularly

00:20:35needs that

00:20:36honestly

00:20:36like you know

00:20:37there's already

00:20:38infinite music

00:20:39for you to

00:20:39listen to on

00:20:39Spotify

00:20:40the world

00:20:40doesn't

00:20:40necessarily

00:20:41need just

00:20:43a different

00:20:43experience that

00:20:44actually is the

00:20:45same for the

00:20:45end user

00:20:45and so

00:20:47our more

00:20:47consumptive

00:20:48experiences

00:20:48we are much

00:20:50more focused

00:20:50on what

00:20:51can we give

00:20:51people that

00:20:52has never

00:20:52before been

00:20:53possible

00:20:53whether that's

00:20:54in how

00:20:55lean in

00:20:55versus lean

00:20:56out it is

00:20:56whether that's

00:20:57the types

00:20:58of personalization

00:20:59and that's

00:20:59not just the

00:21:00personalization

00:21:00of the

00:21:01content

00:21:01maybe that's

00:21:02actually the

00:21:02personalization

00:21:03of the

00:21:03experience

00:21:03there are

00:21:04consumption

00:21:04experiences

00:21:05for example

00:21:06where maybe

00:21:07the intention

00:21:07is not just

00:21:08to have you

00:21:09listen for

00:21:10six hours

00:21:11straight while

00:21:11you're writing

00:21:12your next

00:21:12article

00:21:13maybe actually

00:21:13the intention

00:21:14for you is

00:21:15to pull you

00:21:15in away from

00:21:16that consumption

00:21:17experience and

00:21:17get you to

00:21:18play with music

00:21:18a little bit

00:21:19get you to

00:21:19create a little

00:21:19bit like that

00:21:20is something

00:21:20that has not

00:21:21been possible

00:21:22up until

00:21:22approximately

00:21:23today so

00:21:23those are

00:21:24the types

00:21:24of things

00:21:24that we

00:21:24think about

00:21:25one of

00:21:25the things

00:21:27that I

00:21:28think a lot

00:21:28of people

00:21:29have disliked

00:21:30about the

00:21:31streaming era

00:21:32of music

00:21:33so far is

00:21:34that a lot

00:21:34of it has

00:21:35trained us

00:21:35to be very

00:21:35lean back

00:21:36with music

00:21:36we just

00:21:37put on a

00:21:38dinner party

00:21:39playlist and

00:21:40we walk

00:21:40away and

00:21:41we're not

00:21:41thinking about

00:21:42what comes

00:21:42on and yes

00:21:43that artist

00:21:43makes you

00:21:44know a

00:21:44fraction of a

00:21:45penny because

00:21:45we're listening

00:21:46to it but

00:21:47it becomes a

00:21:48really passive

00:21:49experience I

00:21:50do think

00:21:51that it's a

00:21:51really interesting

00:21:52argument that

00:21:53I hear a lot

00:21:54with AI about

00:21:55the fact that

00:21:57it would force

00:21:57people to lean

00:21:58in a little bit

00:21:58more and to

00:21:59think a little

00:21:59bit more heavily

00:22:00about the music

00:22:01that they're

00:22:01making and I

00:22:02guess if

00:22:04someone really

00:22:04is not super

00:22:05well versed in

00:22:06AI music I

00:22:07think what I'm

00:22:08trying to get

00:22:08at when I say

00:22:09that is you

00:22:10know after you

00:22:10make a song or

00:22:11after you find

00:22:12a song that you

00:22:12love being able

00:22:14to tweak it or

00:22:14remix it or

00:22:15customize it so

00:22:17it'll be

00:22:18interesting to see

00:22:19I think it's

00:22:19really exciting you

00:22:20know I think

00:22:21though back to

00:22:21what I said

00:22:21before it's

00:22:22it can be

00:22:23that it

00:22:23doesn't have

00:22:24to be that

00:22:24like these

00:22:25are choices

00:22:25is it going

00:22:26to be the

00:22:27same streaming

00:22:27experience but

00:22:28it happens to

00:22:29be AI powered

00:22:29music or is it

00:22:30going to be

00:22:31something else

00:22:31that could never

00:22:32have existed

00:22:32before that's a

00:22:33choice like that's

00:22:34a choice for the

00:22:34people who built

00:22:35it and for the

00:22:35people who use

00:22:36it and so

00:22:37that's what I

00:22:37mean by human

00:22:39agency of like

00:22:40and wanting to

00:22:41do things that

00:22:42had never existed

00:22:42before and I

00:22:44think that there's

00:22:45something about

00:22:46platforms at

00:22:47true scale like

00:22:48some of the big

00:22:49platforms today that

00:22:51they tend to

00:22:52cater to the

00:22:54let's say lowest

00:22:55or most passive

00:22:56common denominator

00:22:56which is the

00:22:57dinner party use

00:22:58case that you

00:22:59said and I

00:23:01think that is

00:23:02also that that

00:23:03is a problem with

00:23:04the current business

00:23:04model if there's

00:23:05one offering it

00:23:06will cater to the

00:23:07lowest common

00:23:07denominator and

00:23:08if there are

00:23:08multiple offerings

00:23:09you have the

00:23:10ability to capture

00:23:11people where they

00:23:12want to be

00:23:12captured with

00:23:13music and there

00:23:14are just so many

00:23:14more possibilities

00:23:15around that

00:23:15yeah and you

00:23:17guys recently

00:23:18launched a feature

00:23:19that I I find

00:23:20to be really

00:23:20interesting it's

00:23:21kind of a vertical

00:23:22almost like a

00:23:23TikTok like I

00:23:25don't know would

00:23:26you call it social

00:23:26media what's it

00:23:27called hooks hooks

00:23:29yeah where you

00:23:30encourage people to

00:23:31make videos along

00:23:32with their songs and

00:23:34then from there

00:23:34people can remix

00:23:35them exactly yeah

00:23:36so the intention is

00:23:38not to keep you

00:23:38scrolling forever in

00:23:40fact the intention is

00:23:40the opposite the

00:23:41intention is to keep

00:23:41you scrolling until

00:23:42you hit something that

00:23:43you really like and

00:23:44then to go do

00:23:44something with it to

00:23:46go remix it to go

00:23:47listen to the whole

00:23:47song with one click

00:23:49to find out a little

00:23:51bit more about that

00:23:52something that kind

00:23:54of doesn't exist

00:23:55today yeah I

00:23:56imagine for you

00:23:57given you just

00:23:58finished up this

00:23:59massive series c

00:24:00funding round 250

00:24:01million dollars

00:24:02raised that you

00:24:04spend a lot of your

00:24:05time talking to

00:24:06both the music

00:24:07industry and to the

00:24:08investor worlds and

00:24:10those are two very

00:24:10different groups of

00:24:12people yes they are

00:24:13so I'm wondering

00:24:14what are kind of

00:24:16the differences in

00:24:17how they view

00:24:18Suno tell me about

00:24:20kind of those

00:24:20different conversations

00:24:21that you have with

00:24:22those two different

00:24:22groups you know

00:24:23it's it's really

00:24:24interesting I think

00:24:26just to cartoonize

00:24:27it it's like it's

00:24:29like LA versus San

00:24:29Francisco basically

00:24:30right I mean you

00:24:32know that's that's

00:24:33like a little bit

00:24:33reductive I think

00:24:35both see the other

00:24:36in some sort of

00:24:37extreme and non

00:24:39nuanced and negative

00:24:39light it's just

00:24:40they're both wrong

00:24:41honestly you know

00:24:42and so it's like you

00:24:43know I think about

00:24:43this a lot it's

00:24:44like the tech

00:24:44bros think that

00:24:46the music people

00:24:47just don't get

00:24:48technology and

00:24:49they're Luddites

00:24:49and the music

00:24:50people the tech

00:24:50think the tech

00:24:51bros are just

00:24:52here to disrupt

00:24:53everything and not

00:24:54care about art and

00:24:55obviously the reality

00:24:56is something in

00:24:57between I'll tell

00:24:58you like for me

00:24:59it's actually really

00:25:00eye-opening living

00:25:01in either place

00:25:01yeah and having a

00:25:04little bit of

00:25:04distance from both

00:25:05of them both cities

00:25:06have like so much

00:25:08day-to-day

00:25:08interruption let's

00:25:10say you know on

00:25:11your favorite social

00:25:12media platform or

00:25:13whatever it is and

00:25:13it's like incredibly

00:25:14nice to have some

00:25:15distance so yeah I

00:25:17think look I you

00:25:18know I have a lot

00:25:18of opinions of my

00:25:20own I'm sure plenty

00:25:21of them are wrong

00:25:23but we try to talk

00:25:24about the company the

00:25:25way we like to talk

00:25:26about the company and

00:25:27not the way we think

00:25:28other people like to

00:25:28talk about the

00:25:29company ultimately

00:25:30like if you're trying

00:25:32to pitch an investor

00:25:32and you're trying to

00:25:33tell them what what

00:25:34you think they want to

00:25:35hear I just don't

00:25:36think that's a good

00:25:37idea you have to talk

00:25:38about it like the way

00:25:38you think about it

00:25:39and the way you

00:25:41want them to

00:25:41understand it not

00:25:42not the other way

00:25:43around what do you

00:25:44think some skeptics

00:25:46get wrong about

00:25:46Suno I think a lot

00:25:48of people think it

00:25:49is just type six

00:25:50words into a text

00:25:51box and out comes

00:25:53a crappy mediocre

00:25:54song and not

00:25:56realizing that there's

00:25:56so much more to it

00:25:57and you have to show

00:25:58them and that's why

00:25:59we have writing

00:26:00camps for example

00:26:00right you have to

00:26:01show them that

00:26:02there's a lot more

00:26:02to it if you have

00:26:03three minutes

00:26:03they're going to

00:26:04see that that one

00:26:05very surface level

00:26:06interaction with music

00:26:07and you're not

00:26:08going to have

00:26:08enough time to

00:26:08pull them in

00:26:10so you were on a

00:26:12podcast a while back

00:26:13and I've heard that

00:26:14this quote has

00:26:15haunted you so I

00:26:16want to bring it up

00:26:17and see if you have

00:26:19anything to add to it

00:26:19now you previously

00:26:21said quote I think

00:26:23the majority of people

00:26:23don't enjoy the

00:26:24majority of time

00:26:25they spend making

00:26:26music this has made

00:26:27the rounds on social

00:26:28media quite a few

00:26:28times so I'm

00:26:30wondering if you

00:26:30have anything you'd

00:26:31like to clarify or

00:26:32comment on that

00:26:33sure one I'll say it

00:26:34actually helps not to

00:26:34be on social media

00:26:36myself there you

00:26:36go I see it on

00:26:37social media then

00:26:38I mean yeah I did

00:26:39say that I really

00:26:40wish I had chosen

00:26:42different words there

00:26:44you know I think

00:26:45people who know me

00:26:46know that I

00:26:47obviously enjoy the

00:26:48hell out of making

00:26:48music and I play

00:26:50music every single

00:26:50day and not just

00:26:51on Suno but

00:26:54instruments you know

00:26:55the thing that I was

00:26:56trying to get at is

00:26:56there's a lot of

00:26:57tedium in producing

00:26:58music and yes the

00:27:00struggle is an

00:27:00important part of it

00:27:01but there is

00:27:03potentially a

00:27:03different struggle

00:27:04that you can have

00:27:05to hone your

00:27:06skill you know

00:27:06somebody asked me

00:27:07recently like are

00:27:08people still going to

00:27:09have to spend 10,000

00:27:10hours learning their

00:27:10craft and the answer

00:27:11is 100% what you do

00:27:13in those 10,000

00:27:13hours may be very

00:27:14different in a few

00:27:15years from what it

00:27:16is today but of

00:27:17course you're gonna

00:27:17have to do that if

00:27:17you want to be the

00:27:18best at whatever

00:27:19whatever it is that

00:27:19you're trying to be

00:27:20like I said I wish I

00:27:21had chosen slightly

00:27:22different words but

00:27:22it's like people who

00:27:23know me know that

00:27:25that's clipped in a

00:27:26slightly interesting

00:27:27way another great

00:27:28quote that you had

00:27:29recently was that

00:27:30Suno is the

00:27:31Ozempic of music

00:27:32which you meant to

00:27:34say was that

00:27:35essentially everyone's

00:27:37using it but no one's

00:27:37talking about it

00:27:38I'm wondering if you

00:27:40could kind of elaborate

00:27:40on that because I've

00:27:43heard in my reporting

00:27:44around the music

00:27:45industry there are a

00:27:46lot of professional

00:27:47songwriters and

00:27:48producers some who are

00:27:49just not willing to be

00:27:50public that are using

00:27:51Suno every day what are

00:27:53you seeing on your

00:27:54side how many people

00:27:56are using Suno right

00:27:57now in music

00:27:58first of all let me

00:27:59say that is not my

00:28:00quote oh was it not

00:28:01it is not my okay I'm

00:28:03not that smart no no

00:28:04no I love that quote I

00:28:05mean I and I always

00:28:06say a very good

00:28:08songwriter put it to me

00:28:09like that who may not

00:28:11want to be public with

00:28:12that comment okay wait

00:28:13to clarify the songwriter

00:28:15told you and then you

00:28:16repeated it and it was

00:28:17quoted to you okay I

00:28:18am not clever enough to

00:28:19come up with with that

00:28:20analogy okay I think

00:28:21it's approximately right

00:28:23yeah yeah look we see

00:28:24this from let's say our

00:28:25VIP program we have a

00:28:26VIP program which is

00:28:27basically a lot of you

00:28:30know top professionals

00:28:31who use the product who

00:28:33will help us develop

00:28:34features who will you

00:28:35know be on the phone

00:28:36with if they have some

00:28:37some problems with with

00:28:38the platform and that's

00:28:40a big list there's names

00:28:41on it that you know the

00:28:43amazing thing is one of

00:28:44the ways you can measure

00:28:46any product but a

00:28:47consumer product is

00:28:48retention it's like how

00:28:49often are people coming

00:28:49back to the product and

00:28:50you want that to be

00:28:51really high and the

00:28:53retention of those VIPs

00:28:54is way higher than it is

00:28:56for anyone else and

00:28:57it's because they use

00:28:58the product every day in

00:28:59their daily creative

00:29:00work clothes it's a lot

00:29:02of producers and

00:29:02songwriters yeah I don't

00:29:04know the exact number

00:29:05offhand but it's

00:29:06thousands so who's your

00:29:08target audience is it

00:29:09the the IP program

00:29:11your your professionals

00:29:12or your aspiring

00:29:13professionals or is it

00:29:15my mother if she wants

00:29:17to make a novelty song

00:29:19like what are we

00:29:20talking about I think

00:29:21about this as it's

00:29:22obviously everyone

00:29:22everyone loves music

00:29:23why does it have to be

00:29:25that the same platform

00:29:28and tools that can be

00:29:29used as part of making

00:29:31the best music in the

00:29:32world can't also be

00:29:33really fun and engaging

00:29:34and have your mom

00:29:36discover how fun it is

00:29:37to make music and you

00:29:38know we have like a

00:29:39microcosm of this with

00:29:40like people buy guitars

00:29:42people buy guitars

00:29:43because they like to

00:29:44play guitar they don't

00:29:45necessarily think they're

00:29:46going to become famous

00:29:46but it's fun to play

00:29:47guitar and maybe you

00:29:49have a favorite artist

00:29:50who has a signature

00:29:51guitar and you buy their

00:29:52signature guitar and you

00:29:53feel a little bit closer

00:29:54to that artist and I

00:29:55think there's something

00:29:57amazing and aspirational

00:29:58about like I am using

00:29:59the same tools that the

00:30:01people who make my

00:30:01favorite music use and

00:30:04not a lot of products

00:30:05have that I think and

00:30:06something that we try to

00:30:07lean into very hard

00:30:08is it really possible to

00:30:09get everyone to make

00:30:10music do people really

00:30:12want to like you know

00:30:13would my mom actually

00:30:14sign up and if she did

00:30:15would she retain for

00:30:17very long or would she

00:30:18just make a song and

00:30:19leave I mean I think our

00:30:20usage is showing that a

00:30:22hell of a lot of

00:30:22people way more than

00:30:23anybody expected want

00:30:24this and you know back

00:30:25to the investors and

00:30:28versus artists I

00:30:29actually think it's

00:30:29something that both got

00:30:31wrong you know there

00:30:32were a lot of skeptics at

00:30:33the beginning like why

00:30:34does everybody want to

00:30:34make music on the

00:30:36investment side like why

00:30:38do I want to give you

00:30:38money like your audience

00:30:39is going to be very

00:30:40small and I think they

00:30:41ultimately got a lot of

00:30:42that wrong and artists

00:30:43also saying like why why

00:30:45is everyone going to

00:30:46want to do this build me

00:30:48you know the most

00:30:50powerful tools that are

00:30:51clones of the current

00:30:52tools that will be less

00:30:53fun and intuitive for

00:30:54everyone else to use and

00:30:54that's also not what we

00:30:55ought to do okay so now

00:30:57you're in your series c I'm

00:30:58wondering how your

00:31:00conversations changed from

00:31:01the beginning when you're

00:31:02initially trying to

00:31:02fundraise for suno versus

00:31:04now because I mean now it

00:31:06feels like I could imagine

00:31:07there's a lot of investors

00:31:08hopping on the bandwagon but

00:31:09before it must have been

00:31:11hard to have those first

00:31:12conversations yes actually at

00:31:14the very beginning we

00:31:16raised money before we

00:31:17thought this was even

00:31:18possible and so that was a

00:31:19very different conversation

00:31:20wait and so how did you do

00:31:22that is it just because of

00:31:23the success of your

00:31:23previous startup that you

00:31:24just kind of we had a

00:31:26working like product that

00:31:28was all around understanding

00:31:30of music and not making of

00:31:31music and it's because we

00:31:32thought it would be too

00:31:33hard to actually make it but

00:31:35it's easier to understand it

00:31:37you can think it's like

00:31:39everybody can describe music

00:31:41only some people can make

00:31:42music something like that

00:31:43there's like a cartoon you

00:31:44can have funny story we

00:31:46raised our first round of

00:31:47capital right when there was

00:31:50a bank called Silicon Valley

00:31:51Bank that everybody in tech

00:31:52used and right when that

00:31:54collapsed and that was a

00:31:56difficult round to raise but

00:31:57I think it was actually

00:31:58largely because of that and

00:32:00most people didn't know where

00:32:00their money was

00:32:03that's interesting yeah yeah in

00:32:04the music world I was just

00:32:06kind of watching that from

00:32:06afar but yeah you're in the

00:32:08thick of it we were we were

00:32:10in the thick of it wait okay

00:32:11so so what was this previous

00:32:12thing before generating music it

00:32:14was it was same technologies

00:32:15okay it's ages ago think to

00:32:17like before chat GPT yeah I

00:32:19just don't even think I we

00:32:20weren't even alive but there

00:32:22was still GPT before chat GPT and

00:32:24it was a tool that people could

00:32:26use to take paragraphs of text and

00:32:29try to understand them better and

00:32:31it could be to let's say

00:32:34classify it so you're going to go

00:32:35through all of the old billboard

00:32:36archives and you're going to say

00:32:38like is this article about an

00:32:41artist or a manager you know and

00:32:43you'll build like a little model

00:32:44that can go through everything

00:32:45and figure out is this is this

00:32:46article about an artist or a

00:32:47manager okay and it's like

00:32:48stuff like that yeah just data

00:32:50through it and like we were

00:32:51building it's the same

00:32:52technology but when it is less

00:32:54powerful it is only able to

00:32:55understand stuff and you can

00:32:56think like we were building these

00:32:57things to understand is this pop or

00:33:00is this rock like a little a little

00:33:02more complicated than that of

00:33:03course and because we thought it

00:33:05would be too hard we thought it

00:33:07would take years before you could

00:33:08use the same technologies to

00:33:09actually make music and we had

00:33:13the right breakthroughs and we

00:33:15were wrong and that's the that was

00:33:17like the best being wrong in the

00:33:19world well just like set the scene

00:33:20for me like I imagine it's like

00:33:22something out of a movie where like

00:33:24the the mad inventor creates the

00:33:27thing that he never thought he could

00:33:28create and it comes to life like

00:33:30when was that moment when you're

00:33:31like oh we can do this I think I

00:33:34was sitting uh at my co-founder

00:33:38Georg's um kitchen table with next

00:33:41to him um and you know you like

00:33:43you're doing stuff and you've been

00:33:45working on the same thing for

00:33:46months and nothing works and then

00:33:48and you know and then you like do

00:33:50one more thing and you're like all

00:33:51right maybe this will work and then

00:33:53you're like you click enter and like

00:33:55vaguely passable sound comes out you

00:33:58know and you're like huh okay let's

00:34:00keep going okay so it wasn't like

00:34:02some big climactic oh my god we

00:34:04just changed the music industry is

00:34:07no actually it's a big climate no

00:34:08not at all but it like the first

00:34:10things that came out you would be

00:34:12very generous to call music you know

00:34:15it was organized noise probably yeah

00:34:18organized organized sounds okay okay

00:34:21and they were definitely sounds much

00:34:22more of an intentional decision was

00:34:24actually to say we're still building

00:34:27the sense making thing during the

00:34:30day and we're using these things for

00:34:33fun at night to make music what are

00:34:36we doing like why why are we not doing

00:34:39the thing that like you know we can't

00:34:42put down and uh to abandon one thing

00:34:45and like that was a much more

00:34:46deliberate um deliberate decision that

00:34:48i remember much more vividly what was

00:34:50the business plan for the previous idea

00:34:53like what were the use cases um lots of

00:34:55people have lots of music and audio and

00:34:59it is um really gnarly to understand and

00:35:04make sense of and if you can build people

00:35:06tools to do it they will want to do it

00:35:08and at the time basically the only thing

00:35:10you could do was like very crappy

00:35:13transcription so here's like an audio

00:35:15file could be a song could be a podcast

00:35:17can i like pull the lyrics or the text

00:35:19up that was about it that was about all

00:35:21people doing we said you can probably do

00:35:22more um and so we started to do more and

00:35:25we did um but it wasn't nearly as fun or

00:35:28impactful or it didn't feel nearly as

00:35:30right as what we wanted to do yeah so

00:35:32when was like the first good song from

00:35:34suno oh that's a that's such a subjective

00:35:37question yeah but like was there like a

00:35:39big moment where you're like okay this

00:35:40isn't this isn't just like uh this is

00:35:42fun and it's kind of noisy and whatever

00:35:44yeah i think it was like i think we

00:35:47called it version one and it um it could

00:35:51sing and nobody else um there were

00:35:53other companies and people out there

00:35:55who could make little loops or notes

00:35:58and nobody could make songs yes and

00:36:01there's something really special about

00:36:02a song a song is a story it's not

00:36:05background music right it's and the whole

00:36:08point is like to make like the best

00:36:11music and to make people able to create

00:36:13the things that are in their hearts and

00:36:14so like um that was like that was like

00:36:17really really important and so that was

00:36:18v1 that could like really do that and

00:36:21again not good you know but like it but

00:36:23they were songs i remember the first

00:36:25time that i tried suno i i was just

00:36:29really struck by well the quality of the

00:36:31model but the fact that it it really did

00:36:33put together lyric generation voice

00:36:36generation and instrumental because i was

00:36:40reporting on the early stages of ai music

00:36:43and it was mostly just kind of crappy

00:36:46instrumentals from a bunch of different

00:36:48companies there was no front runner

00:36:51some of them were better than others like

00:36:52it just kind of felt like it was more it

00:36:54was it was very novelty at the time and i

00:36:57just didn't really know when it was going

00:36:58to get to the point where you just could

00:37:00do all of those different things and put

00:37:03them together within seconds and yes you

00:37:06know felt like the moment for me and it

00:37:08well thank you for us too you know i think

00:37:11there's something about early product

00:37:12development where you you have to make

00:37:14choices of what you're going to try to

00:37:15solve and not solve and um it was very

00:37:18obvious to us that we wanted to make

00:37:20lyrical music but i like didn't want to

00:37:23make just instrumental music um because

00:37:25that is like that's what resonates with

00:37:27people i think like there's something i

00:37:28think like we evolved to resonate with

00:37:30the human voice sounds like uh that

00:37:32seemed very plausible to me but i

00:37:33remember at the beginning we didn't

00:37:35even have control over the genre and so

00:37:38the models would basically infer the

00:37:41genre from the lyrics and so we'd see

00:37:43people hacking their lyrics and you know

00:37:46putting like yo yo yo at the beginning

00:37:49because they just demanded that it come

00:37:51out as rap you know and it was like it

00:37:53was like totally like trigger words yes

00:37:55exactly exactly and then we figured out

00:37:57how to control the genre you know it's

00:37:58like so you you build it up step by step

00:38:00that is really interesting man i mean

00:38:03already we have so much music out there

00:38:06we have a hundred thousand songs i think

00:38:08is still the stat i think they just

00:38:10updated it might be a little bit more

00:38:12than that but a hundred thousand songs

00:38:14uploaded to streaming services every day

00:38:15increasingly a share of that hundred

00:38:17thousand daily are ai generated songs

00:38:20i'm wondering how you view ai generated

00:38:23songs on streaming platforms do you think

00:38:25that they should live just right alongside

00:38:28fully human generated music and then of

00:38:32course the gray area in between which is

00:38:33most things where you have ai assisted

00:38:35stuff that has human parts ai parts i don't

00:38:39know just in your dream world how would

00:38:41ai generate an ai assisted music be

00:38:44treated uh in the commercial landscape

00:38:47you know in my dream world there aren't

00:38:49two worlds of music i think again that's

00:38:51just it doesn't make sense because of all

00:38:53that gray area um it's also just not as

00:38:57good for the end user who doesn't want to

00:38:59be thinking it like you know if if you

00:39:01rewind history back in the early days of

00:39:03streaming like you needed to have multiple

00:39:05streaming platforms because not all the

00:39:07music was on one i don't think we want to

00:39:09live in that world maybe we do but i don't

00:39:11i don't particularly want to live in that

00:39:12world and have to be thinking about what's

00:39:14on which platform i also don't want to be

00:39:16the arbiter of where the line is in that

00:39:19gray area like that and there shouldn't be

00:39:21one entity that is the arbiter of that like

00:39:23that's a that's a societal decision and

00:39:26that's a decision that's going to change with

00:39:27the technology and so i think like that's

00:39:29something we have to just acknowledge from

00:39:30the get-go um and that's a weird mix of

00:39:33technology providers music companies

00:39:36artists creative government you know like

00:39:39all of these things it's like this is a

00:39:40messy problem to solve i definitely don't

00:39:42want to be the one to make that decision

00:39:44yeah and i mean with the kind of

00:39:46consumption streaming service side of

00:39:47suno you're trying to innovate there and

00:39:49make it more interesting as you were

00:39:51talking about earlier do you ever see a

00:39:53time when you start allowing just you

00:39:55know all distributors to upload any music

00:39:57that they'd like to similar to what

00:39:59spotify and apple music and amazon music

00:40:01allow users to do now like could you see

00:40:03human-made music on suno that people are

00:40:05playing with there is human-made music

00:40:07you know people are uploading their own

00:40:09stuff and then they cover it and they

00:40:11play with it that is a huge songwriter

00:40:12use case i take oh interesting okay a

00:40:14really um low fidelity like voice note

00:40:18recording from my phone not me but a

00:40:20songwriter who has more talent than i do

00:40:22of uh piano and vocals or guitar and

00:40:24vocals and you can use suno to instantly

00:40:28basically reimagine that in any genre you

00:40:30want oh i have tried that and it's

00:40:32awesome yeah and it's awesome you can

00:40:33have that song and you thought it was

00:40:35like a a punk rock song and then it

00:40:38turns out it just worked way better as

00:40:40afrobeats and like it's now it's not a

00:40:42punk rock song anymore sorry and that's

00:40:44awesome right yeah um so there's already

00:40:46human-made music but like to answer your

00:40:47question i think in the way that you are

00:40:50describing it no but in the fullness of

00:40:52time for sure and it's because um we want

00:40:55to make these new experiences for um

00:40:59consumers around music that are really

00:41:01engaging that are really interactive and

00:41:03somebody who wants who has music that was

00:41:05made off platform who wants to give the

00:41:07same interactive powers to the people who

00:41:10consume their music um is going to have

00:41:12to upload it to suno if they want to have

00:41:14the the same experience for their fans

00:41:16we're really focused on building things

00:41:18that couldn't exist up until today

00:41:20a couple companies have started to form

00:41:24their opinions about how they will treat

00:41:26ai music band camp in particular just

00:41:29decided to ban fully ai generated and

00:41:32it's like substantially ai generated music

00:41:35which they did not define i asked them

00:41:37to but they didn't have a clear answer

00:41:39for me um additionally iheart radio has

00:41:42their new guaranteed human program which

00:41:44means on their stations across the

00:41:46country they will not be programming any

00:41:48ai generated music i'm wondering what you

00:41:51think of those stances it seems like ai

00:41:54music right now is receiving quite a lot

00:41:58of backlash and it's being pushed off to

00:42:01the side how do you feel about that

00:42:03decision there's a lot of making policies

00:42:06like you said that um end up not exactly

00:42:08defining where the line is and you know

00:42:12probably some people in my position would

00:42:14hate on that i think that's actually the

00:42:15right thing like we don't know where the

00:42:16line is and so we're gonna have some

00:42:18ambiguous policy that lets us figure it

00:42:20out as we go and i think that's fine um

00:42:22some of it is clearly for publicity

00:42:25reasons and that's also fine um i think

00:42:27at the end of the day everybody is trying

00:42:29to figure out what is the right mix of

00:42:32like what do our users want in the case

00:42:35of all of those platforms it's the people

00:42:37who pay them money or the people who are

00:42:39listening if the advertisers pay the

00:42:40money um and what creatives and artists

00:42:43want and um this is a big messy problem

00:42:45we're all gonna have to figure it out

00:42:46together and that's that's like fine i

00:42:48was looking through the suno reddit

00:42:51subreddit oh it was fun i i'd never

00:42:53been there before but uh someone told me

00:42:55to check it out so i was just like seeing

00:42:57what users say and what people are

00:42:59interested in on there and i i believe

00:43:03there there was a post that you guys have

00:43:04a new um product in beta called sounds

00:43:07is that correct yeah it's um like loops

00:43:10and samples essentially sort of okay okay

00:43:14yeah more um loops and samples as a very

00:43:18particular connotation it's not exactly

00:43:20that it's almost more like sound effects

00:43:21and um because the ability to add these

00:43:25little things into your music and be able

00:43:28to prompt for them so like as um as a

00:43:30random example you know we were like

00:43:31working with an artist and um we were

00:43:33using suno studio and we wanted to um add

00:43:36like a little ear candy to a track and

00:43:38they're like what should it be and he's

00:43:39like um i don't know owls hooting and i

00:43:42was like there's no way we know how to

00:43:43do owls hooting and he's like well you

00:43:44have to figure out how to do owls hooting

00:43:46because that's what i want to it's like

00:43:47stuff like that interesting okay because

00:43:49my my question eventually was going to

00:43:51be if you see yourself as like a

00:43:53competitor to like a splice type product

00:43:55or a beat stars or something like that

00:43:57not exactly okay you know the the intention

00:43:59is to to have a more coherent product you

00:44:03know where everything fits together

00:44:04nicely um because that's what delights

00:44:06people yeah and i think for a long time

00:44:09i think in part because of the majors

00:44:11lawsuit against suno and udio those two

00:44:13companies were often put in the same

00:44:15sentence udio is now pivoting its

00:44:18service to be a very different type of

00:44:20platform than what suno is going for

00:44:22i'm wondering now who do you feel is a

00:44:26competitor for suno you know it's funny

00:44:28that's a really that's a really common

00:44:29question that investors will ask us

00:44:31you know interesting maybe you actually

00:44:33should be an investor you secretly live in

00:44:35silicon valley wrap this up yeah i'm gonna

00:44:37go to silicon valley now i think about it

00:44:40much more from like we have a vision of

00:44:42the future that we are trying to do i

00:44:44don't know exactly what other companies

00:44:45have that vision exactly that vision no

00:44:47one um and we're just going to keep go

00:44:50building it going and building that and

00:44:52you know it's um yes there are big scary

00:44:55companies with lots of dollars and lots

00:44:57of distribution that could do what we do

00:44:59um but they don't and it's because they

00:45:01don't have um i think the same view of

00:45:04what the future could and should be around

00:45:05music and honestly the thing that you

00:45:08said earlier of like having to convince

00:45:09investors that music is a big thing and

00:45:12can be much bigger than it is today um is

00:45:15um a feeling that lots of big tech

00:45:18companies have also and so that's our

00:45:20advantage and we're just going to go and

00:45:21build what we want to do yeah i actually

00:45:23i'm really glad that you brought that up

00:45:24because i tell this to people all the

00:45:25time it's like it is really interesting

00:45:27that in the music category of ai it's

00:45:30dominated by startups it's not dominated by

00:45:32open ai like in pretty much every other

00:45:35facet it's like google or open ai that

00:45:38we're talking about as the front runners

00:45:39here but in music we're seeing startups

00:45:41and my my theory has always just been that

00:45:44a lot of people don't think music is worth

00:45:46it and they think it's too complicated and

00:45:48you know all that stuff i'm curious

00:45:52would you guys ever sell suno to a you

00:45:56know one of these ai giants like open ai or

00:45:59google i actually have a different

00:46:01explanation for it okay which is um the

00:46:04giants have a few extreme advantages

00:46:07dollars and gpus is one of them right and

00:46:09um in the game of we are trying to make

00:46:13general intelligence um it turns out that

00:46:16is an extreme advantage it is like throw

00:46:19more compute and more dollars at this

00:46:23problem obviously there's a tremendous

00:46:25amount of very difficult research that

00:46:26goes with it but you can't compete in

00:46:29that domain if you don't have that and um

00:46:32you keep making the models bigger you keep

00:46:34making them more complicated that's not

00:46:36music music is not a problem to solve that

00:46:38like intelligence has right and wrong

00:46:40answers music is art it is far messier and

00:46:43i don't mean the business i mean like music

00:46:45itself is far messier that is why startups

00:46:47can compete there like interesting we we

00:46:50will be outscaled by google seven days of

00:46:52the week on on spending money on on

00:46:54computers and um that's just fine like

00:46:58that's not what's going to make music

00:46:59better yeah but would you ever be

00:47:01interested in selling to a bigger company

00:47:03probably not uh you know i think like

00:47:05again very common investor question um so

00:47:09you're really you're really doing this

00:47:10well um that's so funny i think about it

00:47:13like this like there's a future we want to

00:47:15build is there a company that we think

00:47:17would meaningfully accelerate our ability

00:47:19to go do that then we could have that

00:47:21discussion but until that company uh you

00:47:24know materializes i don't really see any

00:47:26interest and another thing that i find

00:47:29really interesting about suno is your

00:47:31user base like i didn't realize until i

00:47:35saw your investor pitch check i noticed

00:47:37that suno's primary user base are 25 to

00:47:4034 year old men um and usually when i think

00:47:43of emerging technology disruptive technology

00:47:45i think that it's usually going to be a

00:47:48really young demographic that's adopting it

00:47:50in the highest numbers i'm curious like what

00:47:52you make of your user demographics is that

00:47:56surprising to you that it's 25 to 34 year

00:47:58old men not super surprising you know it

00:48:00doesn't skew that male and the second

00:48:02biggest demo if you go back to the pitch

00:48:04deck is uh 18 to 25 so um it's not like

00:48:07it's not this isn't musically where it's you

00:48:10know 13 year olds um but these aren't

00:48:12boomers um i attribute this to there is i

00:48:16think general apprehension around ai everywhere

00:48:19not just in music from younger people and i

00:48:23don't know exactly where this comes from um

00:48:25is it like ai is going to turn us all into

00:48:26paper clips or or something like that but i

00:48:29think um that is like my large explanation

00:48:31for why um let's say the 13 to 18 year olds

00:48:34aren't super into suno again i think just

00:48:36talking to people i have found is like the

00:48:39best way to to explain it and it's like because

00:48:42i get so many questions from people who in

00:48:45music who know that i do music uh you know

00:48:48and um the questions are always like yeah

00:48:50like is ai going to end the world and you

00:48:52know i happen not to think it's going to

00:48:54but like certainly suno is not going to turn

00:48:57everybody into paper clips like that's not

00:48:59the domain that we play in and just like

00:49:01why don't you try it and um everybody wants

00:49:04to try it and most people like it when they

00:49:05try i think the thing that a lot of critics

00:49:09within the music industry would probably say

00:49:10is like maybe suno wouldn't end the world

00:49:13but it might end my my career like if i'm a

00:49:16production music maker or some other type of

00:49:20kind of professional music making class type

00:49:22what do you say to those who are talking to

00:49:26you they're musicians and they are just

00:49:28genuinely scared

00:49:30um i say i understand um because

00:49:34like i said before technology and music do

00:49:36have a checkered past it's not all bad but

00:49:39it's not all good either and like i i acknowledge

00:49:41that and i usually encourage people to

00:49:44come to a camp or to try the product and you

00:49:46actually see that somewhat counterintuitively

00:49:49it's not all the artists using suno it's the

00:49:51people who are a little more behind the scenes

00:49:53it's the songwriters and the producers

00:49:54who you might at first blush think those are

00:49:57the people whose you know jobs are going to

00:49:59get disrupted and it's not those are the

00:50:01people who are using it the most and so

00:50:03usually when people see that if you're

00:50:05someone who makes production music like

00:50:06you get it and you want to use it and it

00:50:10doesn't have to be i make everything all the

00:50:11time on suno it is another tool in your arsenal

00:50:13um and i think that's like actually somewhat

00:50:15apparent from the product we are not trying to

00:50:17build

00:50:18um a full feature da digital audio workstation

00:50:22okay i actually was going to ask if you see

00:50:24yourself also as maybe a competitor

00:50:25does no okay this is another tool in the

00:50:29arsenal i think it is an incorrect um

00:50:32sort of uh fixed pie mentality to think like

00:50:35if one tool is more ascendant another tool is

00:50:37necessarily losing we are not trying to take up

00:50:40100 of your screen real estate or the time

00:50:42that you spend making music this is another

00:50:44thing there's very particular workflows that

00:50:47are amazing in suno that you can't do

00:50:49anywhere else and there are things that

00:50:50like honestly we don't want to build there

00:50:52because they're done really well in other

00:50:53tools and that's just fine

00:50:56and going back to the pitch deck um it says

00:50:59that suno has a million subscribers up 300

00:51:03percent year over year but approximately 25

00:51:05percent of subscribers remain after 30 days

00:51:08yes i'm wondering if you could just talk about

00:51:10user retention um subscriber retention and if

00:51:14you think that you know those numbers need to

00:51:18improve in the future and how you would

00:51:19improve them if you could you may have

00:51:22misinterpreted that slide on the pitch deck

00:51:23so um bounded day 30 retention is a great

00:51:27um uh metric for evaluating how much your users

00:51:31like your product and that means i've used it

00:51:33one day exactly 30 days later how likely i might

00:51:36have used it and so it's actually an excess for

00:51:39subscribers it's an excess of 25 that means

00:51:42that's actually quite high that's not any time

00:51:45in between that's exactly on the 30th day a

00:51:47quarter of them have used it again um and

00:51:49actually if you look over the course of a week

00:51:52let's say you know it'll be 75 and so amongst

00:51:55our subscribers um this is the amazing thing that

00:51:58nobody believed was possible numbers like that

00:52:01are unheard of for tools because people don't

00:52:05use tools every day people use tools weekly not

00:52:07daily those look more like consumer social

00:52:11applications and that's that is the big leap

00:52:14here it's because it's fun so we were bragging when

00:52:17we said that yeah okay okay okay so that that is

00:52:21interesting though so i mean do you see yourself kind

00:52:23of being put into the category of yeah more of like a

00:52:26a pastime like a social media service i don't

00:52:30know i don't know uh like when people are scrolling do

00:52:33you imagine them making music instead someday

00:52:35yes i don't know um tell me about with your

00:52:37permission i'll steal that line from you and use

00:52:39your name uh behind it it's a pastime um that's

00:52:43exactly what we see and i i don't know i think this

00:52:46is like fairly non-consensus i think we're past peak

00:52:49scrolling i think people want to do something

00:52:50else yeah i do think well tiktok's algorithm is when

00:52:55we're in the past few days we'll see if they figure

00:52:57something is going on something is going on more

00:52:59more generally oh yeah they are going under new

00:53:02leadership which is going to make some big changes to

00:53:04the platform but i'm curious to see actually if that

00:53:06leads to any shakeup in the social media space it's been

00:53:09such a dominant platform for so long but there there

00:53:11are other scrolling platforms that have no um shakeups

00:53:15right now i just think more generally when we look back

00:53:18at today um uh in five years we will realize that we are

00:53:22just past peak scrolling people want something else i mean

00:53:26i hope so i hope so too that would be great because i'm too

00:53:30addicted to it right now personally well actually you're not

00:53:32even on social media no i um i have twitter um i don't have it

00:53:37on my phone i don't have instagram i don't have

00:53:40facebook okay you're calling it twitter so are you

00:53:42like a long time user oh no i don't have x no i got it

00:53:46post-it becoming x oh just culturally it's twitter in my head

00:53:50yeah same i i used to love twitter but now it's it's kind of all over the

00:53:54place so i go on and i'm like okay interesting

00:53:57i'm getting all sorts of things hitting me on the timeline

00:53:59but i'm glad to not know that yeah yeah it seems like you guys are

00:54:04interested in providing all types of things

00:54:07from music creation to also places where you can consume that music that you

00:54:11make or or your friends music that you

00:54:13make you also have a little bit of a social media like service

00:54:17i mean do you guys have any interest in like becoming

00:54:20a record label at some point no but like i think about us as trying to

00:54:27build um the music super app and that is more

00:54:31of a tech word and in tech in tech people more or less associate that with

00:54:35like let me take a bunch of things and put them together and there are small

00:54:39synergies between these things and so combining them is really good

00:54:42and so um you know you might take your social media platform and add messaging

00:54:46to it and add payments to it and etc etc and that's not how i think about the

00:54:51super app we want to build we want to build the best version of every part of

00:54:55music that could possibly exist and so that is

00:54:58like the creation thing that was a big hole most people couldn't create music and

00:55:02so we went and we made that and the best consumption experience i think is not

00:55:06something that exists today i don't know exactly what it is but it's

00:55:09something that is more engaging than the things that exist today and so we we

00:55:13want to go and make that i think of a record label is just separate from that

00:55:17it is an important like i said before people think we think the record labels

00:55:21are going away that's obviously not true um they are way too culturally

00:55:24important um it's just it's it's not the thing that is ultimately end user

00:55:30facing um that uh we have opinions on how to make it way way better you know just as a

00:55:36as a thought experiment something we we say a lot is like it's grammy's week so

00:55:41there's a weird question to ask but whatever you're going to do tonight like

00:55:43sometimes you're going to go home and you're going to watch nash looks why are

00:55:47you not going to do music and you're not everybody like you're a music reporter

00:55:50but like the average person and what is the what is the music that's so good you

00:55:54want to binge watch it at night

00:55:57well the thing about music that's different from film and tv is like it's audio

00:56:01and visual you're totally locked in when you're watching something unless you got

00:56:04your second screen out which is a problem you know um back in the 90s people

00:56:08watched a lot of music videos yeah that's true it can have and there's

00:56:13a difference between um an audio visual music experience that is

00:56:17really music forward like a music video and one that it has background music and

00:56:21why aren't people making more music forward things that are so good that i think k-pop

00:56:26theme in hunters is like uh moving in this direction a little bit but i think more

00:56:31things like that should exist do you foresee an ai or an ai assisted artist

00:56:38making it onto the hot 100 this year like our main chart i mean i hate to answer the

00:56:43question or the question but what is ai assisted in this case because i don't know

00:56:46i'm sure that there's already ai assisted music on the on the hot 100 you think so

00:56:50oh yeah okay like from like who do you think it would be from just from uh just like top

00:56:56producers who just like used in the studio while they were working with little bits and pieces

00:57:00right and it'll be like very subtle it'll be the artifacted electric piano in the pre-chorus

00:57:06just that four bars hmm may have come from interesting do you have like a good ai detector

00:57:12tool like can you tell when someone does something like that really hard when it's when it's like a

00:57:17tiny little bit inside it like you have to know where to look yeah yeah yeah because well i was

00:57:22trying to i've tried to check a lot of songs because i never want to uh say something used ai

00:57:28if it

00:57:28didn't or vice versa and um it's really hard when it gets down to those little granular moments

00:57:35there was like a rumor going around about like a the playboy cardi album having a little bit of ai

00:57:40on one of the vocals and i was never able to determine whether or not that was true because

00:57:43it's just that's like one one tiny bit um so it's going to be interesting to see also how ai

00:57:50detection changes and improves over time it's really dependent with how forward people are

00:57:55in like there's one world in which we don't need it to be detected because people are just

00:58:00yeah i used a little bit of ai in that vocal yeah so do you think there is going to

00:58:05come a point

00:58:05pretty soon where people just do not care if it's ai or not um pretty soon no i think uh

00:58:13pretty soon a lot

00:58:14of people will not care because it was ai assisted right it wasn't you know six words into a text

00:58:21box

00:58:21and out popped a song right it was an artist that you loved and um yeah like there was some

00:58:28there was

00:58:29some ai in it and you love the song and you're not going to care yeah yeah okay i have

00:58:34lots more

00:58:34questions but we've been talking for an hour so i will start to wrap this up here with our fun

00:58:40game

00:58:41where uh we're actually new and improved game for season two this is episode one of season two i'm the

00:58:47first one oh yeah okay let's do it yeah you're the first one so we're now calling it what would

00:58:53you cube and basically i'm going to ask you three prompts and for those prompts you just pick a song

00:58:57that you feel like fits that can i ask you a question first yeah all these prompts i'm i'm

00:59:02calling them prompts like question questions yeah i know no but it's like a very ai word

00:59:07maybe i've just been reporting on ai too much okay that's probably true and that would that would be

00:59:11that would be a largely soon as fall i i actually a lot to talk about if you spent the

00:59:16day inside the

00:59:16company you would not hear that word really yeah we don't use that word i feel like that's um

00:59:20that's a silicon valley word huh i do feel these are prompts though these are prompts in like the

00:59:26the the 10 years ago version of prompts maybe okay well then maybe i'm just behind

00:59:30that that could be it too either i'm super silicon valley and i need to move there and become an

00:59:34investor

00:59:34or i'm just 10 years behind i support both of those okay great two great outcomes okay

00:59:39what would you cue to take you back to your childhood so a song a song yeah a song to

00:59:45take

00:59:45you back to your childhood uh we went to a lot of musicals and my parents made us listen to

00:59:51um the songs like incessantly before they would take us so probably the opening to litmus

00:59:55oh okay i did not expect that okay what would you cue to represent your favorite era of music

01:00:02that's like the era that i most like to listen to yeah like a decade a time period a scene

01:00:10abby wrote okay the whole album whole album you can't narrow it down no it's hard to okay

01:00:16it's hard to that's fine um my spotify age is 73 i will out myself oh mine is 89

01:00:23i don't know too many people who are older than i am yeah no i'm like what did i listen

01:00:27to and i

01:00:28think i figured it out it's chet baker oh okay so they were just like yeah she's old she's old

01:00:34but

01:00:34it's good to cook too so speaking of passive listening but i am listening to it and singing

01:00:40along so maybe it is active it's great yeah it's it's great okay what would you cue to remember the

01:00:46best concert you ever went to the best concert i ever went to was a fish show at a very

01:00:51small venue

01:00:51in massachusetts um but i remember um we listened to oasis definitely maybe on the way home and so i

01:00:59would remember it by putting on that album that's great that's great are you a jam band guy yeah big

01:01:04big jam i did not know that okay well mikey shulman thank you so much for coming to on the

01:01:08record i

01:01:08appreciate your time thanks again to mikey shulman ceo of suno for joining me on the show today

01:01:13and thanks to you for listening to the first episode of on the record season two if you like

01:01:18today's show give us a follow on instagram at billboard on the record where you can find new

01:01:22clips of the show every single week we'd also appreciate it if you could rate our show on your

01:01:26favorite podcast platform because all of these things help on the record grow bigger and better

01:01:31than ever again i'm your host kristen robinson and tune in next week for another peek behind the

01:01:36curtain of the music business we'll come to you live from south by southwest we'll see you then

01:01:48we'll see you then

01:01:52we'll see you then

How Suno's AI Model Is Disrupting the Music Business w/ CEO Mikey Shulman | Billboard On The Record

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