00:00We've talked about how Iran's exported its Shahid drones to Russia for its war against Ukraine.
00:05Well, a powerful Russian facial recognition software has been acquired in complete secrecy by the Islamic Republic and put to
00:16use.
00:17It's our spotlight segment.
00:24And we say hello to Alexander Abdullai, investigative journalist at Forbidden Stories.
00:30Tell us, please, about FindFace.
00:35Yeah, so FindFace, as you said, is a facial recognition software that is made by a Russian company called Ntech
00:44Lab.
00:44And what we reveal at Forbidden Stories in our investigation that was published yesterday, Eyes of Iran, is that the
00:53Iranian regime secretly acquired it in 2019.
00:58We obtained a data leak of confidential documents from Iranian and also Russian companies.
01:07And so what we saw is that the Iranian regime has that tool at its disposal that is a top
01:14-notch tool, much more advanced than what experts thought the regime had in its hands.
01:24Give us a concrete example how, for instance, it could have been put to use back in January during the
01:33crackdown on those protests.
01:36Sure. So this tool has actually two ways it can work.
01:41So the first one is what they call the offline mode.
01:44So you can just record videos on the street during a demonstration, for example, or use CCTV camera feeds or
01:53also videos that people put on social media.
01:55And then you run it through that software, and that software actually has an algorithm that compares the faces that
02:03you see in the video with a database that you provided.
02:08So it could match, let's say, one face in a crowd with an identity thanks to AI and biometric data
02:17that the security apparatus in Iran has on most of its citizens.
02:22So it's in less, you know, in a few seconds, it could compare one face in a crowd with millions,
02:30potentially hundreds of millions of faces.
02:31So it's very powerful. And it could help the security forces to identify every people on the street, even if
02:40they hide behind hoodies or masks in some cases.
02:45It's very efficient. So it could really, in the hands of an authoritarian regime such as Iran, be really dangerous
02:53for people taking to the streets and make it way easier for the security forces to go after them.
03:00And some are wondering if this surveillance system that you've been describing for us, Alexander, may have been the undoing
03:07of the supreme leader.
03:08The Financial Times reporting how Israel had long hacked into Iran's surveillance cameras, its cyber unit, using footage to pinpoint
03:18its moment of opportunity.
03:20When Ayatollah Khamenei gathered senior staff at a defense compound on Saturday, these complex algorithms, adding details to dossiers on
03:30members of the security guards,
03:31including their addresses, hours of duty, routes they took to work, and most importantly, who they were usually assigned to
03:38protect and transport.
03:40So is what you're describing what killed, in the end, Ali Khamenei?
03:46So you have to differentiate between the CCTV camera feeds, so the images that cameras are recording, from the tool,
03:55the software itself, which allows to match faces.
03:59So, obviously, I'm not aware of the tool that the Israeli Secret Service is using, but one can imagine that
04:08it's probably a similar tool to that one that was used to be able to run a model on the
04:15images you get,
04:16to be able to say, okay, this face, this person matches this ID from that database, but that's difficult to
04:24say.
04:24Okay. Forbidden stories really dive into the story with our partners, because our mandate is to pursue the stories that
04:35journalists have been trying to work on and have been silenced.
04:40And Iran is the perfect example for that, because in that country, there is no investigation possible.
04:47Every potential investigation is a forbidden story, and this tool is like one more tool in the hands of an
04:56authoritarian regime that silences people.
04:59Because if you are aware of the fact that your government can identify you when you're in the subway, when
05:06you're on the street,
05:08and arrest you the next day or the next hour without having met any policemen on your way to the
05:15demonstration or on the way home,
05:17it's really scary, and that's what we wanted to highlight.
05:22And also, you know, name the companies involved, put names on that machinery.
05:28And so, the Journalist Consortium of Forbidden Stories, well, you got help from whistleblowers from inside of Iran.
05:35That's how you got tipped off to the story.
05:40So, actually, the departure of the story is a data leak that we obtained.
05:46And in addition to that data leak that contained a lot of contracts and exclusive documents,
05:53we were able to talk to someone who knew the system from the inside and helped us check if what
06:02we found was, you know,
06:04in tune with what he, the person, saw in the system.
06:09And we also talked to cybersecurity researchers, to people well aware of how the regime functions, like how it uses
06:20this kind of tools.
06:21And they said, I'm thinking of Nima Fatimi, which we talked to interviewed, he said, when he saw the documents,
06:31and he said, yeah, probably, most probably the regime used the tool during last uprising because it would allow them
06:38to spare their resources.
06:40And instead of sending policemen in a demonstration, they could just, you know, sit behind a desk, look at the
06:47images, run it through the software,
06:49get the list of people who were on the street on that day, and then just pick them up one
06:53by one at their home.
06:55So, it's pretty chilling to imagine what it could mean in the hands of that regime.
07:01And Iran is not alone.
07:03You just mentioned how Israel has its own system.
07:07And, Alexander, I know you read the news.
07:10Last week you watched that tug of war in the United States between Silicon Valley giant Anthropic and the Pentagon.
07:20Anthropic saying it doesn't want its software to be used for mass surveillance.
07:26What was your reaction when you were putting the finishing touches on this investigation and watching what was going on
07:33in Washington?
07:36Well, I mean, this investigation collided, let's say, with the news of the war breaking out in Iran.
07:43Of course, we were working on it already for a few months before we published.
07:49And, I mean, you know, the facial recognition is an issue that also Western democracies, let's say, are confronted with.
08:00Like, let's take the example of France, for example, where it's not officially allowed yet,
08:08but we know that some services are probably already using it.
08:13It's potentially dangerous when you connect it to databases containing private information of citizens.
08:23In itself, searcher software cannot do anything.
08:27It's really the data you feed it to that makes it dangerous and how you use that information once you
08:35have it.
08:36But, yeah, I mean, the example in the U.S. is one of the most recent ones where you have
08:42to, you know,
08:43it's all the ethics that AI brings up, like all these questions of how far can you go when you
08:52want to provide security?
08:53How far can you infringe on private rights and fundamental rights?
08:58So, yeah, that's a separate subject.
09:01But we try to focus and shed light on one of these softwares and what it means when these capacities
09:09are used in a regime that is authoritarian
09:13and is, you know, perpetrating massacres against its own population.
09:20Yeah, and one final question on this, Alexander.
09:23When you think of the Iranians who went out in the streets and braved bullets back in January,
09:30those that weren't killed or arrested, they've got to be looking over their shoulder now in light of what you're
09:38revealing.
09:39So, I think it was the case before.
09:43We saw a lot of demonstrators hiding their faces as much as possible, destroying CCTV cameras.
09:51So, Iranians were aware that the regime was surveilling them.
09:57What we are revealing, and we hope this also helps the Iranian people, is how this specific software works.
10:07And I think it's important that people are informed just to be able to, you know, think twice about how
10:16to go at what they are doing.
10:19I'm not saying, now that this software is active, you don't have to, please stay away from the streets or
10:25whatever.
10:25That's up to every citizen to make that decision.
10:29But I think it's important to be informed.
10:31And our role is really to bring this information to the public and say, here's a tool that is very
10:38powerful in the hands of that regime.
10:40That's something we didn't know.
10:44And potentially, it's very harmful.
10:47And then it's up to, you know, everyone to take their own responsibilities.
10:52And we're also naming the companies.
10:56I think that was something very important to us and to our partners.
11:00Alexandre Abdelila, your investigation available on the website of Forbidden Stories.
11:06So many thanks for speaking with us here on France 24.
11:10Thanks for having me.
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