- 4 minutes ago
The big talking point of this episode of News Today is the West Asia war. As the war entered Day 4, US officials said that President Donald Trump is prepared to support armed Iranian groups to overthrow the government, signalling a shift in war objectives.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your prime time destination news.
00:05Newsmakers, talking points are happy wholly to each and every one of you out there.
00:09But first, I want to tell you what's our big talking point this Tuesday night.
00:13Donald Trump has just shifted the war goalposts again.
00:17Now says he's ready to support armed groups in Iran to topple the government.
00:23Is he daydreaming or does he have a plan?
00:26Among my special guests is the noted news presenter Mehdi Hassan joins me from Washington.
00:33I'll also look at what role should India now be really playing, particularly with oil prices rising.
00:40Sayyad Akbaruddin, who's tracked the area for years, will join me.
00:45Special guests as always, but first, let's bring you the top 10 developments on that escalating war in West Asia.
00:53The death toll in Iran from the ongoing conflict with the United States and Israel has risen to over 780.
01:04Iranian agencies claim the country has faced more than a thousand strikes with over 500 sites hit since the war
01:11began on 28th February.
01:15With Iran attacking U.S. link sites across the Gulf region, the U.S. decides to shut its embassies in
01:21Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Jordan.
01:24Non-emergency personnel in these embassies allow order to leave immediately.
01:31A top Iranian official has said that Tehran is ready to hold negotiations with the U.S. and Israel with
01:36dignity.
01:37Earlier, President Trump claimed that Tehran requested talks after their leadership and command structure was hit, but claimed it was
01:44too late.
01:47With Iran shutting down the strategic straits of Hormuz, government sources say India currently has crude oil and petroleum products
01:55stock sufficient for 50 days.
01:57The government, however, exploring alternative suppliers to meet the demand.
02:03A day after Tehran claimed its nuclear facility had been struck, global watchdog IAEA confirms that Iran's Nathans nuclear enrichment
02:11site sustained some damage, but any radiation leak is ruled out for now.
02:20Iran holds a funeral procession for victims of the strike on the girls' school in Minab.
02:25Thousands of Iranians attend the funeral procession for over 160 Iranian schoolgirls killed in the U.S.-Israel strikes on Saturday.
02:38Israel rules out sending boots on the ground into Iran, but its forces have crossed into Lebanese territory in operations
02:44against the Hezbollah,
02:45which has aligned with Iran and fired missiles towards Israel.
02:51President Trump intensifies his criticism of U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer for refusing to allow the use of British
02:57bases for strikes and for voicing concerns over Washington's actions.
03:01Trump says Starmer has not been helpful, expresses disappointment over the current state of U.S.-U.K. relations.
03:09Prime Minister Modi steps up his outreach to Gulf nations amidst the escalating war over the past 48 hours.
03:16He has spoken to the heads of state of eight countries, stressing the safety and security of Indian nationals residing
03:22in the region.
03:25Indian nationals stranded in the Middle East begin returning home, with flight operations partly resuming.
03:31Several commercial services are bringing passengers back to India after days of airspace closures and widespread cancellations.
03:40Disrupted travel across the Gulf.
03:57The big story that's breaking at the moment, U.S. officials now saying that Donald Trump is ready to support
04:05armed Iranian groups to overthrow the government in the republic.
04:09A short while ago, Israeli forces have targeted Iran's assembly of experts who were tasked to choose the next leader
04:15of Iran,
04:17leading to possibility of more deaths in the high-ranking members of the regime in Iran.
04:26The Israeli army also conducting a fresh wave of strikes in Tehran, Qom and Isfahan, targeting ballistic missile manufacturing sites
04:35as well.
04:36So clearly, America not letting up and carrying on the escalation with Israel really in a frontal role at the
04:45moment.
04:46So a U.S. official claiming that Trump is open to supporting armed groups.
04:50This is another change in goalposts by the U.S. president.
04:54Only yesterday he said that he was not interested in regime change.
04:58Change was not the goal.
04:59He wanted Iran to end its nuclear enrichment program.
05:06I want to go to guests who are joining me at this moment from the ground.
05:10Mayan Hoffman, journalist from Tel Aviv, is with us.
05:14I want to come to you, Mayan, for a moment.
05:16What are you picking up at the moment?
05:18Has it been a relatively calm day in Israel?
05:21Yesterday, we saw a series of missiles and drones directed at different parts of your country.
05:28Yes, it's been much calmer today than yesterday, although there have been certainly some sirens that took place later, kind
05:34of mid-afternoon today.
05:35Most of the action has actually been up north.
05:37Hezbollah rockets and drones being fired into northern Israel, where Israel is obviously also operating against Hezbollah in Lebanon.
05:44The most exciting attacks have gone the other direction.
05:47Israel operating in Iran.
05:49We saw the target of 88 people coming together, the municipal votes to vote for the new supreme leader.
05:57And, of course, Israel managed to take them all out at the same time.
06:00That's been a moment of celebration here in Israel.
06:03But by and large, yeah, it's been a bit of a quieter Purim holiday than we expected.
06:08So you're saying that Israel believes it has taken out all the Iranian leaders who had gathered to elect a
06:17successor to Khamenei.
06:18Is that what you're saying?
06:20Is that what Israeli sources are confirming, that their attacks have targeted that assembly that had gathered to elect a
06:28successor to Khamenei, and that they've been taken out?
06:32Well, they haven't been able to confirm that all 88 have been taken out, but they've certainly been able to
06:37confirm that there was a direct strike on the building.
06:39And they assume that the majority, of course, have been, if not all of them, and that they were able
06:43to stop the vote today with Israeli intelligence and Israeli strikes.
06:47Okay, Mayan Hoffman, thanks very much for joining me from there with that important piece of news.
06:54Meanwhile, Professor Samir Abbas Jafri at the Al-Mustafa International University in Kham is joining me.
07:00I appreciate you joining us.
07:02You are in Kham, sir, which is the very place where that assembly was being held of senior Iranian clerics
07:10and members of the assembly to elect a new leader.
07:13The Israelis are claiming that they've targeted that area around the assembly a short while ago.
07:21What are you picking up in Kham itself?
07:24Have there been strikes in and around where you are, sir?
07:28Thank you very much, Mr. Sadi Asai, for having me on the show.
07:32And yes, where I'm located, approximately, say, around one kilometer approximately in that range, the attack took place.
07:43And I'm very surprised that we live in a world where people come on the show and they say that
07:50we have hit and killed people illegally.
07:53And with so much disdain that they have so clean face and they're able to say that completely illegal, criminal
08:06attack.
08:06So, I mean, you can't expect anything else.
08:11You know, the first parliament of Iran after 1979, when the Islamic revolution came about, the first parliament was bombed
08:20through terrorist attack by United States.
08:23So, they have this history of killing people.
08:27They have only two ways.
08:28Either we'll kill you or you submit to us.
08:31We have the third way.
08:33We'll never submit to a tyrant.
08:35That is what the message of Iran is and that is what the message of Imam Hussain was.
08:40Can I understand from you, Professor, what you have been seeing around you in Qaum, are people now all restricted
08:48to their homes in bunkers?
08:50No.
08:51Because the United States is threatening, they've just threatened parts of Tehran and Isfahan, asking civilians to hide in safer
09:00places.
09:01Are you getting, is there a fear factor of these bombs being dropped by the Israelis?
09:09Mr. Saad Esai, I'm glad that you asked this because there are two ways.
09:14We are Shia Muslims.
09:16We never fear death.
09:17We love death.
09:18We love Imam Hussain.
09:20Imam Hussain taught us whenever a tyrant comes in front of you and he asks you to bend down, you'd
09:26rather die on your feet rather than bend to a tyrant.
09:29So when I was driving here, I was driving towards my home and came back because of the show to
09:35this media center.
09:36The life was normal all around.
09:39And what is very surprising is in Iran, after Iftar, which is when Ramadan is going on, people gather in
09:47different roundabouts all over Iran.
09:50And in Kumbh, there are more than 50 locations where people gather on the streets in thousands and they do
09:57matam and they do sinazani.
09:59And they say, we are the lovers of Imam Hussain.
10:02You want to kill us?
10:03Yes.
10:04So there is a tyrant who's sitting there in Washington and Tel Aviv and they want to scare you.
10:10And they think that they can scare you.
10:12And they think we fear death.
10:14No, we don't fear death.
10:16So if they can, if they want to be the tyrant and the aggressor and they want to kill people
10:22illegally, criminally, they will pay the price finally.
10:26Because they are the most hated people in this world right now.
10:29That is for sure.
10:31Okay.
10:32Professor Jafri, for joining me there with your very strong words.
10:36Stay safe.
10:36And I thank you very much for joining us, even at this difficult time.
10:43Now, the killing of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei over the weekend was projected by the United States-Israel Alliance as a
10:50decisive strike.
10:52What it has done, though, is triggered even more confusion over America's real objectives.
10:56The Trump administration, particularly the president, is shifting goalposts all the time.
11:01One speaking about regime change, then about nuclear missiles, now speaking about militias and nuclear weapons.
11:08Does Donald Trump really have a plan in mind?
11:11Or is he simply walking into this war with Netanyahu taking the frontal role?
11:18Take a look at today's top story.
11:22The killing of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in normal circumstances would be seen as a victory for an American president.
11:30But nothing about the killing was normal.
11:32The attacks took place without any legal backing in the middle of negotiations that were being seen as a success.
11:39And now, President Donald Trump is having a tough time selling a war to the people of America who are
11:45wary of wars in distant lands.
11:48First of all, what is the objective?
11:50On Sunday, it was regime change.
11:53Iranian military, police, to lay down your arms and receive full immunity or face certain death.
12:01It will be certain death.
12:03Won't be pretty.
12:04I call upon all Iranian patriots who yearn for freedom to seize this moment, to be brave, be bold, be
12:13heroic, and take back your country.
12:16America is with you.
12:18On Monday, Trump shifted the goalpost.
12:21Our objectives are clear.
12:23First, we're destroying Iran's missile capabilities, and you see that happening on an hourly basis, and their capacity to produce
12:32brand new ones, and pretty good ones they make.
12:36Second, we're annihilating their navy.
12:39We've knocked out already 10 ships.
12:42They're at the bottom of the sea.
12:43Third, we're ensuring that the world's number one sponsor of terror can never obtain a nuclear weapon, never going to
12:52have a nuclear weapon.
12:53Secretary of State Marco Rubio gave one more reason for launching the strike first.
12:58We knew that there was going to be an Israeli action.
13:00We knew that that would precipitate an attack against American forces, and we knew that if we didn't preemptively go
13:06after them before they launched those attacks,
13:08we would suffer higher casualties, and perhaps even higher those killed.
13:12And then we would all be here answering questions about why we knew that and didn't act.
13:16Donald Trump came to power promising there won't be any wars, but has started one, which, if it does not
13:22end soon,
13:23could probably become the mother of all wars drawing in the entire Gulf.
13:28What can bring Iran, a country which has lost its leader, back to negotiating table?
13:34Nobody seems to have the answer.
13:37Okay, let's raise the big question once again tonight.
13:43Is Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu in particular driving this war now and Donald Trump simply tagging along?
13:50Is Donald Trump constantly changing the goalposts with no clear endgame in mind?
13:55Is war a weapon of mass distraction for Donald Trump from his domestic troubles?
14:08And joining me now from Washington, D.C. is a special guest joined by Mehdi Hassan, editor-in-chief and
14:15CEO of Zetio News,
14:17one of the world's leading opinion makers, sharp opinions as always.
14:23Mehdi, appreciate you joining us.
14:25You're joining us on a day when we are hearing news of unprecedented attacks once again on Tehran,
14:31possibility of a building where the Assembly to elect a successor to Ali Khamenei were meeting.
14:38How do you see this?
14:39Israel and the United States now relentless in their attacks.
14:43Do you really believe Iran can hold out?
14:47It is a big question of our time.
14:50We are in a very, very dangerous moment for the world, for the region.
14:53We're all affected by this, a massive escalation in the Middle East, a completely unnecessary, unprovoked war,
15:00a war of aggression against Iran, whatever your views of Iran.
15:04And people can be very critical, as I am, of Iran's government, of its human rights record.
15:08Whatever you want to be critical of, its nuclear program, this was a war of aggression,
15:12a war of choice launched by the United States and Israel.
15:15They've all but admitted it.
15:16Their rationales keep shifting by the day as to why they're bombing Iran.
15:19We're meeting, we're talking, Rajdeep, on a day where Donald Trump says,
15:23well, it's too late to talk, even though on Sunday he said he wanted to talk.
15:27So they're all over the place.
15:28As you say, you know, we're escalating.
15:30More and more targets are getting hit.
15:32They've already killed the head of state, the Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei, on day one,
15:36completely illegal under international law.
15:39And they've got no strategy to end this.
15:42They've got no end goal in sight.
15:43They've not explained to the American public or the wider international community
15:46as to why they are doing it and when they plan to stop.
15:49And we're seeing it escalate around the region.
15:51Americans are being asked to leave the Middle East.
15:53People are being killed in Gulf countries.
15:56Lebanon now is facing an Israeli ground invasion, as we speak.
15:5950 people killed in Lebanon, 750 people killed in Iran,
16:03people killed in Israel, which the whole thing is a disaster.
16:06You know, you're saying it's a disaster, but when I speak to Israeli guests
16:10or indeed American guests close to the establishment,
16:14they say this is a just war.
16:16That's the word that's being used, a just war,
16:18to stop Iran from exporting terror
16:21or becoming a nuclear country that can destabilize the region and the world.
16:28So some of us who studied philosophy and theology in university will remember the criteria for a just war
16:33is that it has to be a last resort, has to be an act of self-defense,
16:36all other options have to be exhausted.
16:38That clearly wasn't the case.
16:40Rajiv, you don't have to take my word for it.
16:42Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, stood in Congress yesterday, spoke to reporters
16:45and said the imminent threat, this is the legal justification for their attack,
16:49the imminent threat was not against the U.S., as many of us pointed out, it wasn't.
16:53He said that Israel was planning to attack Iran,
16:55and because America knew Israel was planning to attack Iran,
16:59America had to attack first, because once Israel attacked Iran, Iran would attack America.
17:03Think about the illogicality of that position.
17:06Rather than just stop Israel from illegally attacking Iran,
17:09America decided we will attack first and say it's an imminent threat on us.
17:12As even senior Democratic Party lawmakers are saying now, Rajiv, even pro-Israel Democrats
17:17are openly saying an imminent threat to Israel is not a threat against the United States.
17:22Our country is not the same as Israel.
17:24Israel's interests are not America's interests.
17:26And I think that's becoming a very fascinating political debate here in the U.S.,
17:30the shifting terrain on America's relationship with Israel.
17:33Of course, Israeli politicians are going to tell you that this is good for them.
17:36They've been wanting to take out Iran for decades.
17:39Benjamin Netanyahu admitted just yesterday,
17:41I'd been yearning, he said, dreaming of doing this for 40 years.
17:44Donald Trump is the first president to agree.
17:47Don't forget Bill Clinton, George Bush, Joe Biden, multiple American presidents.
17:52Barack Obama said no when Netanyahu told them to bomb Iran.
17:56When George W. Bush and Dick Cheney thought Iran was a step too far,
18:00think about how extreme this step is that Donald Trump has taken in his second term
18:04for Netanyahu's sake, and I would argue as a distraction from his domestic economic woes
18:09and the release of the Epstein files.
18:11Now, you're making an important point.
18:12You're claiming that Donald Trump, at least partly,
18:15has been driven by the fact to make this a weapon of mass distraction,
18:19if I may use that word, from the economic crisis, the Epstein files,
18:23and that it is Netanyahu who's leading the aggression,
18:26and Donald Trump has chosen to play ball in a way previous American presidents have not.
18:31What really has changed?
18:32Is it just simply the way Donald Trump is in comparison to his predecessors?
18:39Here is a president who has simply no time for the international rules-based order.
18:43That's why he's chosen to go along.
18:46Oh, 100 percent.
18:47He has no interest.
18:48Other presidents have also, let's just be clear, Archie,
18:49other American presidents have also violated international law and the rules-based order.
18:53But at least they've pretended that they care about it.
18:56They've paid some lip service to it.
18:57And as I mentioned, even some of our most hawkish American presidents,
19:00George W. Bush, did not bomb Iran.
19:02Donald Trump is someone who doesn't care about international law.
19:05He doesn't care about national sovereignty.
19:06He's a very imperialist-style president.
19:09You know, we're taking America back 50, 100, 150 years.
19:12We saw what he did in Venezuela at the start of the year.
19:14He illegally went in and abducted the sitting president from his bed with his wife
19:18and declared himself, Trump declared himself, acting president of Venezuela.
19:22He says he now controls and rules Venezuela.
19:25He says he wants to take Greenland away from the Europeans, away from Denmark,
19:28completely in violation of international law, the U.N. and NATO.
19:33And of course, so Iran is something, it was very easy for Netanyahu to get Donald Trump to do this.
19:37And look, this is not just me saying this.
19:39The New York Times has a big piece on how Trump went to war, big deep dive.
19:43And their opening paragraph, Rajiv, the opening paragraph begins with Benjamin Netanyahu walked into the Oval Office in February
19:50to make sure that Donald Trump stays on a path to war.
19:54Netanyahu went on Fox last night on Sean Hannity's show and just laughed maniacally when Hannity said,
19:59people say that you made Trump do this.
20:01It is very clear that this is a war for Israel.
20:04There's what American national interest is there?
20:06Six American service members have been killed.
20:07Who's going to tell their families they died for nothing?
20:10Gas and oil prices are going up in a country where affordability and price rises.
20:15Inflation has already been a huge political controversy.
20:18And of course, all of our allies, the Gulf allies, are saying that the U.S. is not a protector
20:22of the Gulf.
20:22If you're in the UAE and Qatar and Bahrain, you used to look at the U.S. for protection.
20:28They were your shield.
20:29Now you're getting bombed by Iran and the Americans can't protect you.
20:32No, but if this all results eventually in the regime change that Donald Trump seems to suggest he or seems
20:39to hope it will,
20:41then Donald Trump could well claim victory.
20:44I've been trying to understand whether there is an end game.
20:48I've been asking a number of guests.
20:49No one has clarity on that.
20:51Do you see an end game if Donald Trump is able to put in place in Iran someone who he
20:57believes will toe the line of the American-Israel axis?
21:02Is that the end game?
21:04So a few things there.
21:05Number one, my colleague Swin Sup Sang here at Zeteo has been reporting from his sources inside the administration
21:09that they went into this war with no end game at all.
21:12They're trying to work it out.
21:13But in retrospect, after dropping the bombs, they're now trying to work out what is the end strategy,
21:18what is the exit strategy, which is a bizarre way to go to war, of course.
21:21And this is an administration that is full of incompetent people.
21:24Let's just be very clear.
21:25In fact, Trump himself admitted, Rajiv, I don't know if you saw, he said we did have a plan to
21:29replace Khamenei.
21:29We had a number two, a number three we had picked, but they got killed as well in the initial
21:33bombing.
21:34Imagine they killed the people they had wanted to replace Khamenei.
21:37That's the kind of incompetence with which they're bombing Iran.
21:39Number two, you say regime change could be the end goal.
21:42Well, as I said at the start of the interview, the end goal keeps changing.
21:45On the one hand, Donald Trump says regime change.
21:47Then he says, no, it's not about the regime.
21:48They can stay as long as they get rid of the nuclear program.
21:51Then they say, well, it's not about nuclear program.
21:53It's about freeing the Iranian people.
21:54Then they say, well, actually, it's about the ballistic missiles.
21:56They're all over the place when it comes to their actual goal.
21:59Everyone can see that.
22:00Finally, I would say we don't know what regime change looks like in Iran.
22:04The American record on a regime change is a disaster.
22:07Should we talk about Iraq?
22:09Should we talk about Afghanistan, where the Taliban are back in charge?
22:12Should we talk about Libya, which is a failed state today?
22:16Syria, Venezuela.
22:17He just took out the president but kept in the rest of the government, didn't bring in
22:21the quote unquote democratic opposition.
22:23My worry for Iran is that you don't just lose this government and then have some happy
22:28democracy or even the return of the Shah's son.
22:31You actually get a civil war in Iran.
22:33You actually get a failed state in Iran, which is, by the way, Rajiv, what the Israelis want.
22:37The Israelis don't want a strong Iran.
22:39They don't want a strong Iraq.
22:40The Israelis want to be in a neighborhood where they're surrounded by Middle East countries
22:44which are fighting internally, which are torn apart internally.
22:47Your Lebanons, your Syrians, your Iraqs.
22:49That's what they want because they then get to be the top dog in the region.
22:53There is a much of what you're saying.
22:55Surely the American public out there knows the changing of the goalposts, the fact that
23:00American soldiers have lost their lives, the fact that there have been warnings, including
23:03in that NYT article from Trump's military advisor who made it clear that there could be
23:09several casualties.
23:11All of this is known to the American people, to Congress.
23:15Why is there not a greater pushback?
23:17Why is there seemingly not a greater pushback when there is this brazen violation seemingly
23:22of international law taking place?
23:24Or, as I said, the constant changing of goalposts that could involve the loss of lives?
23:29Well, it's not just international law that's being violated.
23:31It's the U.S. Constitution.
23:32The U.S. Constitution demands that Congress vote on war.
23:36Congress authorizes war.
23:37A president cannot take America into war without congressional authorization.
23:40There is an exception under what's called the War Powers Act that allows the president to
23:44use force for 60 days without getting congressional approval if there's an imminent threat to
23:48the U.S.
23:49And the intelligence community has made it clear that there was no imminent threat to
23:52the U.S. from Iran.
23:53Iran was not about to attack America.
23:55No one truly believes that.
23:56The public are against this war.
23:58What's so fascinating, Rajdeep, is that prior to this war, only one in four Americans supported
24:03hitting Iran.
24:03Only one in four Americans.
24:05Now, normally, when America goes to war, the minute the bombs drop, the minute American soldiers
24:09are in harm's way, the American public becomes very hawkish, immediately falls into line
24:13behind whatever foreign misadventure Bush or Obama or whoever it is takes them on.
24:17In this case, Rajdeep, for the first time in my lifetime, in living memory, the American
24:21public has not switched.
24:22In the polls that have been taken since Saturday, the majority are still against this war.
24:27So he's not, he's ignoring public opinion.
24:29Trump told the New York Post on Monday, I don't care about the polls.
24:32He's ignoring public opinion.
24:34But there are midterm elections coming up in November.
24:35They were already on course to lose those elections, the Republicans.
24:38This will only cement that.
24:40And by the way, Democrats finally are speaking up.
24:42We're seeing, for the first time, even feckless, spineless Democrats, even those who are in
24:46the pro-Israel camp, are coming out and saying, you know what, we should not be fighting this
24:50war.
24:50This is an illegal war.
24:52This is something that's unconstitutional.
24:54Gavin Newsom, governor of California, very moderate mainstream Democrat, very pro-Israel
24:59guy.
24:59He came out yesterday and said, why did we kill 160 schoolgirls for Israel and Netanyahu's
25:04sake?
25:04And I think those questions are going to keep getting asked.
25:07If those questions are going to get asked, what happens next?
25:11What's your sense?
25:12With Donald Trump, we never know what happens next.
25:14Do you believe that he will call a halt, early halt to the war and claim victory?
25:19Or as he said yesterday, this could go on for weeks.
25:21Do you believe this has become an ego thing about it?
25:24There are lots of conspiracy theories.
25:26Also that about, about backroom deals that have been struck.
25:29What's your sense?
25:31I know it's tough to predict what an unpredictable Trump will do.
25:34But what would you hazard?
25:36What happens next, given, as you're saying, that there is slowly a pushback, even in America?
25:42Anyone who makes predictions in Trump's Washington, D.C. is crazy, because this is a man who doesn't
25:46even know what he's going to do any day he wakes up in the morning.
25:49As you say, Donald Trump could either end this war today and declare victory, mission accomplished,
25:53I'll let George W. Bush, or it could drag on for weeks.
25:56I suspect I would lean more towards some kind of fake declaration of victory, because one
26:01thing we know about Trump, Rajiv, he's not anti-war.
26:04This was a myth that Trump would be an anti-war country.
26:06He likes bombing countries.
26:07He bombed seven countries in 2025, his first year in office.
26:11He launched more strikes than Joe Biden launched over four years in his first year.
26:15He likes bombing countries.
26:16What he doesn't like is prolonged conflicts, the quagmire of Iraq.
26:20What he always claimed to oppose was a long occupation of Iraq, of Afghanistan.
26:24He doesn't want to get stuck in Iraq.
26:26Even though they're talking about ground troops now.
26:28He likes the Venezuela type conflict.
26:30You go in the middle of the night, bang, bang, bang, made for television.
26:33You pull Maduro out with a bag over his head and you go, ha ha, look at that.
26:37That was amazing.
26:37It's like a Hollywood action movie.
26:39That's what this guy likes.
26:40He's a former reality TV star.
26:42This is what he enjoys.
26:43He's not some strategist, some geopolitical forecaster.
26:47This is something he got pushed into.
26:48This is something he doesn't actually care about deep down.
26:51He's now committed.
26:52He's got a massive ego, probably bigger than any person has ever had in the White House.
26:56So he can't, of course, look like he's been defeated.
26:58But at some point, he will be defeated, either politically or maybe even militarily.
27:03In a sense, therefore, as a final question, if you and I were to talk a month from now,
27:09do you believe that the war would still be on?
27:12Neither of us are military experts in that sense.
27:15We don't know what the capacity of Iran is to hold out.
27:18Iran is obviously trying to expand the theatre of war to bring in other Gulf nations.
27:24As you mentioned, those Gulf nations also stand presumably cruelly exposed today.
27:30In a sense, their defences have also got exposed.
27:34So a month from now, do you believe we will still be at war?
27:38So not just Gulf nations, Raj.
27:41There's reporting that South Korea is losing some of its American munitions and protection.
27:45It's being diverted to the Gulf.
27:46Gulf countries are seeing that America only cares about Israel.
27:49Its other allies ultimately will always be sacrificed at the altar of Israel.
27:52That's become very clear.
27:54Will it continue a month from now?
27:55I think, look, first of all, let's not underestimate the Iranian regime's tolerance of attack and bloodshed.
28:01This is a country that took 10 years of beating by Saddam Hussein, backed by the United States and France
28:07and other countries at the time.
28:08They lost a million people, including many, to chemical attacks from Saddam Hussein's army.
28:12This is a country whose religious leadership, as Marco Rubio pointed out, is a Shia clerical leadership which venerates martyrdom,
28:20which, you know, sees martyrdom as the ultimate gold.
28:23Khamenei became a martyr.
28:24They made Khamenei martyr.
28:25They gave him what he wanted.
28:26So I think they have quite a long tolerance, actually, for enduring bombs and bullets and attacks from America and
28:32Israel, especially if they carry on hitting back as they are now.
28:35Whether that lasts a month, six months, a year.
28:37Let me just say this, Rushdieb.
28:38One thing I've learned, unfortunately, from my 46 years on this planet watching wars like Iraq and Afghanistan is there's
28:45a long tail to this stuff.
28:46You don't know when it's over.
28:48The West doesn't get to decide when wars are over.
28:50George Bush stood on an aircraft carrier and said, mission accomplished in May of 2003, a couple of months after
28:56toppling Saddam.
28:57We know what happened in Iraq for the decade, decade and a half later.
29:01We know what happened in Afghanistan.
29:02Twenty years later, the Taliban was back in office.
29:05Some of our opponents, especially in the Middle East, they think in terms of decades.
29:09Unfortunately, the U.S. political media class thinks in terms of weeks.
29:12And that is the real disconnect.
29:15Let's therefore leave it at that, Mehdi.
29:17Maybe we'll get back to you, not after a decade, but maybe after a month or so and get a
29:24sense of what impact this war has had.
29:27Because clearly it's destabilized large parts of the world like never before.
29:33And I think you've given us a sense of what Donald Trump is about.
29:37I just wonder how you get away with saying some of the things you do in a Trumpian world.
29:44But I guess more power to you.
29:48You must get under his skin.
29:52Well, some might say a lot about the Indian journalists who get under Narendra Modi's skin.
29:56And we're living in a world where democratic journalists in democracies like India and America have to keep speaking out
30:01to value the importance of free speech,
30:03especially at a time of war when dissent is so important.
30:07Let me leave it at that.
30:08I appreciate you joining me, Mehdi.
30:11Thanks so much for joining me here on the news today.
30:17OK, from the conversation that we've had from the United States, I'm turning back home.
30:22In a moment, I'll be joined by Syed Akbaruddin, one of India's most distinguished diplomats,
30:26who's been based both in America and across West Asia in his long and distinguished career.
30:34And I thought we should focus on the Indian position.
30:37Because India has finally broken its silence on the escalating war in West Asia, calling for restraint and diplomacy.
30:43This even as the opposition questions the government's refusal to condemn the assassination of Iran's supreme leader, Ali Khamenei.
30:52What's happening with the Indian situation?
30:55Take a look.
31:00Oh, my God.
31:12India issues its first detailed reaction to the escalating war in West Asia.
31:18In a statement, the Ministry of External Affairs on Tuesday said,
31:22India had already urged all sides to excise restraint, avoid escalation and prioritize the safety of civilians.
31:30It noted that in the recent days, destruction and deaths have mounted,
31:35even as normal life and economic activities come to a halt.
31:39The MEA said,
31:40There are almost one crore Indian citizens who live and work in the Gulf region,
31:45and the safety and well-being of Indians is of utmost priority.
31:50The MEA added that trade and energy supply chains also traverse.
31:54This geography and any major disruption has serious consequences for the Indian economy.
32:00The Ministry said some Indian nationals have lost their lives or are missing in the war.
32:05India strongly reiterated its call for dialogue and diplomacy.
32:11Over the past two days, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has reached out to leaders of the UAE,
32:17Israel, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Bahrain, Oman, Kuwait and Qatar.
32:23On Monday, he had called for talks and restoration of peace.
32:55The Modi government says,
33:02In an article in a newspaper, Congress MP Sonia Gandhi pointed out that the government has refrained
33:09from condemning the assassination of Khamenei or the violation of Iranian sovereignty.
33:15She said the massive unprovoked attacks by Israel and the US happened in the midst of dialogue.
33:20She went on to say that silence in this instance is not neutral but abdication.
33:28Sonia Gandhi also said the assassination was carried out without a formal declaration of war.
33:33She added that barely 48 hours before the assassination,
33:37Prime Minister had returned from a visit to Israel.
33:40Sonia Gandhi claimed that India's high-profile political endorsement of Benjamin Netanyahu's government
33:46without moral clarity marks a visible and troubling departure.
33:50India's stance is signalling tactic endorsement of this tragedy, she added.
33:56The government's priority at present is assuring the safety of one crore Indians living in the Gulf.
34:02Most of the Indian students stuck in Tehran have been moved out of the city.
34:06Now if the war gets prolonged, it will also pose serious challenges to the fastest growing large economy of the
34:14world.
34:19Bureau Report, India Today
34:25What role should India play in this war?
34:30Will the Hormuz block it, the Straits of Hormuz being affected,
34:34hit the economy, especially India's oil purchases?
34:38Is the Gulf losing the safe haven status that it has?
34:42Lots of questions to answer.
34:45Sayyad Akbaruddin, former Permanent Representative of India to the UN,
34:49and someone who's worked across the region, including Saudi Arabia, including Iran.
34:54I appreciate, Akbaruddin, you joining me.
34:58From an Indian perspective, you've heard the Prime Minister today
35:01reach out to different Gulf neighbours once again,
35:06Gulf countries once again, spoken to the King of Jordan,
35:09speaking to other affected countries.
35:12Do you believe that this outreach
35:18is the right way to do this?
35:20Or should we be, in a way, calling out
35:24what some believe is now an
35:27unprovoked, unnecessary, disproportionate
35:29war
35:30that Israel and US are calling out?
35:33Why the reluctance to call out the US
35:35and Israel?
35:36Do you believe that's the right approach?
35:39So, thank you very much, Rajdeep, for having me on your show.
35:43So, West Asia is not a distant theatre for India.
35:47It's part of our proximate neighbourhood, if I may say.
35:52For India, the Gulf is not a foreign policy file only.
35:58It's an economic and human security reality.
36:03Our energy flows, oil, LNG, LPG, aviation fuel,
36:09come from there in significant measure.
36:14So, any increase in prices due to the closure of sea lanes
36:18will have an impact on our budgetary lines,
36:21on our bottom lines.
36:22And there's the safety of nearly 9 million Indians
36:27in the region, where we have a direct state.
36:31So, India's approach is not going to be
36:35a pure norms, values, first posture.
36:39It's likely to be a more hedged norms posture.
36:43And the logic is pretty simple.
36:46Diplomacy must be calibrated rather than doctrinaire.
36:49So, you see the way that we are responding.
36:54We are not doing it in a very manner of vocal symmetry.
36:59But in crisis, you speak first
37:02where your people and your economic interests lie
37:05and where they are most exposed.
37:08So, calibrated diplomacy provides options
37:12and rhetoric closes them.
37:14So, I'm not one for having a rhetorical approach.
37:18So, you're saying it was the right
37:20because this has become part of domestic politics,
37:24the opposition, large sections of it,
37:26including Sonia Gandhi, interestingly today,
37:28questioning why has the government
37:31been so silent on the assassination
37:33of a head of state like Ali Khamenei.
37:37Someone who may have been anti-India
37:39in his positions on Kashmir,
37:40but at the end of the day is a head of state.
37:42That international rules demand
37:44that you can't just take out a head of state
37:48with this kind of an external strike.
37:51That's immoral, illegal.
37:53How do you respond?
37:54Has India done the right thing
37:56by not openly condemning the US
38:00and Israel at any state so far?
38:03So, Rajdeep, let's first acknowledge
38:05that our ties with Iran are historic,
38:09are traditional, and are deep.
38:11And many Indians feel a sense of civilizational affinity
38:16and strong cultural bonds with Iran.
38:19And of course, the killing of Iran's supreme leader
38:22in military strikes is seen by many
38:25as a grave breach of accepted norms.
38:28Now, what the government wants to answer,
38:31perhaps it'll answer over itself,
38:32because I'm not the spokesperson right now.
38:35I have no knowledge of the inner thinking
38:38of the government.
38:39And as Mrs. Sonia Gandhi herself said,
38:41that perhaps the best place for this
38:44is to discuss it in parliament.
38:46But that said, I think the important thing
38:51is for us to ensure that we prevent the next strike.
38:56And that is what matters
38:57rather than condemning the last one.
39:00India is not there to win applause.
39:04It has to work to protect lives,
39:07its own interests.
39:09And the Ministry of External Affairs
39:12has already said that sovereignty
39:14and restraint and territorial integrity
39:17remain our core principles.
39:19But we have other priorities.
39:22So I think what the government has to say,
39:26So to those who say that we've taken a picture side,
39:31we are veering closer and closer
39:33with every passing year or month
39:37towards the Israel-US axis,
39:40that that in a way limits our options.
39:43You don't agree with that.
39:45You believe that we are in a multi-aligned world,
39:48so we are having relations,
39:49strong relations with the Gulf states.
39:51At the same time,
39:53we build this strong equation with Israel.
39:55You believe that's the way forward?
39:56Have we embraced Israel and the US
39:59to the extent that we have
40:00no strategic autonomy now in the region?
40:05Radhi, engagement should not be confused
40:07with alignment.
40:09We need to separate the optics from the policy.
40:12Yes, the Prime Minister was in Israel
40:15a few days before the strikes took place,
40:17but that doesn't make India complicit in what followed.
40:21Critics, crises erupt between meetings.
40:26And if diplomacy meant endorsing
40:28every subsequent action of a partner,
40:31no country would maintain relationship with anybody.
40:34So, you don't agree with the views expressed
40:36by some of my previous guests
40:38in earlier program
40:39that this visit was ill-timed in any way?
40:42No, I don't think India can afford
40:44to be part of any block in West Asia.
40:49Our job is much more measured.
40:52It's much more focused.
40:54And we need narrow diplomacy for that.
40:56And that narrow diplomacy can only be
40:58if we keep all lines open
41:01rather than think that, you know,
41:04we need applause lines.
41:06So, it's easy for people
41:07to come on television and say that.
41:10Right.
41:10So, you're saying it would be unfair
41:13to say that the visit was ill-timed.
41:15We have to carry on engaging the Gulf states,
41:19UAE, for example.
41:20We are building a strong relationship
41:22and we continue to engage with Israel
41:25and both are possible.
41:26They are not mutually exclusive.
41:27Am I correct?
41:28And Iran itself.
41:30Remember the Chabahar port.
41:32I mean, while Iran has been critical
41:34on India's position on Kashmir, for example,
41:37or Iran has been seen to echo
41:39almost Pakistan's position at times on Kashmir,
41:42the Chabahar port was an important access
41:44for us to Central Asia.
41:47So, Rajdeep, I think government's actions
41:51should be judged by outcomes
41:52rather than look at it
41:55at the middle of a process
41:57or at the beginning of the process.
41:59What we need to see is,
42:01can India speak and engage with all sides?
42:03And that they have done.
42:05The Ministry of...
42:06The External Affairs Minister
42:07has talked to his Iranian counterpart.
42:10Prime Minister has talked to
42:11all the leaders of the Gulf.
42:13The Ministry of External Affairs
42:15in its first statement itself said
42:17that for us,
42:18territorial integrity and sovereignty
42:20is important.
42:21So, we need to see
42:22whether they're talking to all sides.
42:24Can they help in reducing
42:25the escalation risk?
42:27Can they protect our citizens?
42:29Can they ensure the economic lifelines?
42:32All this will require access,
42:34not alignment.
42:35And we need to judge India's policy
42:37by its results
42:38of whether the markets are steady,
42:41whether the Indians are safer,
42:42and whether a diplomatic off-ramp
42:45can be there,
42:47and India can support that.
42:48Rather than these applause lines
42:49that people come and say in public,
42:52because quiet diplomacy
42:53is also part of substantive diplomacy.
42:56We need to generate...
42:58We need to put some breaks
43:01on this momentum of war
43:04and hyper-talk.
43:06I take your point
43:08of a quiet diplomacy
43:10prevailing over optics,
43:11but then when you go to Israel
43:13and are seen to be embracing it,
43:15almost calling it fatherland,
43:17do we have to be conscious
43:19that on the Arab street
43:21or indeed even in Iran
43:22that will be seen very differently?
43:24Do we need to be conscious
43:26of that as well?
43:27That you can't be seen
43:28to be embracing Netanyahu
43:31at a time when he's reviled
43:33in large parts of West Asia,
43:34certainly on the street,
43:35if not by the leaderships?
43:38So, Rajdeep, again,
43:39you're mixing up optics
43:40with substance.
43:42So, yes, what you say
43:44may be valid
43:45in some parts of the world,
43:46but I've served in the Gulf.
43:48Many of the Gulf states
43:50speak or sing
43:52from the same hymn sheet
43:53that the Israelis sing
43:55towards Iran.
43:57So, let's not be thinking
44:01that, oh, the Arab street.
44:03And we know what the Arab street
44:04in the Gulf is, Rajdeep.
44:05So, let's understand
44:07that our outcomes
44:09will be decided
44:10not on optics
44:11and give the government
44:13a chance and space
44:14to work it out.
44:15And let's discuss this
44:16when Parliament convenes
44:17or when there is greater space
44:19rather than putting every action
44:21under a magnifying glass
44:22and say,
44:23oh, I could have done this better.
44:25Sure, everybody can do this.
44:28Finally, do you believe
44:30India is taken, therefore,
44:32seriously across the region
44:33that because also
44:34of the large population
44:35that we have,
44:36we have soft power
44:37across the region
44:38in countries like
44:39UAE, UAE again
44:41because of the presence
44:42of so many Indian workers
44:43that therefore
44:44we have a role to play?
44:47So, Rajdeep,
44:49you know,
44:50when I first served
44:51in the Gulf,
44:52there were about
44:53a million Indians there.
44:55Today, there are
44:5510 million.
44:57Our economy,
44:59our trade
45:00with the Gulf
45:01was something like
45:022 or 3 million,
45:032 or 3 billion totally,
45:05all the Gulf countries.
45:06Today,
45:07if you look at it,
45:08it's 170.
45:09Obviously,
45:09we are a major player there.
45:12People take us seriously.
45:15To be fair,
45:16also,
45:17India has invested
45:18a lot in deepening ties
45:20with the Gulf
45:20in an unprecedented manner.
45:23And that's not because
45:24of ideological affinity.
45:25It's because
45:26our interests have converged.
45:28And if interests converge,
45:29there are people
45:31who take each other seriously.
45:32And I think
45:33the India of today
45:35is certainly taken seriously
45:37in the Gulf.
45:38And let's see,
45:41first,
45:41the safety of our people
45:43and the economic ties
45:45are protected.
45:46Everything comes
45:47secondary to this.
45:48Okay.
45:49I'm going to leave it there,
45:51Sayer Akbaruddin.
45:52You are a voice of reason
45:53amidst the noise
45:55around us.
45:56And obviously,
45:57in the difficult,
45:59polarized times
45:59we live in
46:01to navigate
46:03with quiet diplomacy,
46:04not easy.
46:05We'll wait and see
46:06what the outcomes are.
46:08But for now,
46:08for joining me,
46:09thank you so much,
46:10Sayyad Akbaruddin,
46:11on what India's role
46:13could be
46:14as the war escalates.
46:15Now,
46:16one of the questions
46:17that we've raised
46:17is the Straits of Hormuz.
46:19The Iranians
46:20have been very clear
46:21that they're using it
46:22to effect a blockade
46:24that will affect
46:25oil prices
46:26and thereby,
46:27perhaps,
46:28create further
46:29economic dislocation.
46:30It's one of the
46:31weapons that it has
46:32while declaring
46:33this narrow waterway
46:35closed
46:35and warning
46:36it will target
46:37any ship
46:37that goes through it.
46:39About 20%
46:39of global oil
46:40moves through there
46:41and India
46:42is one of the
46:43beneficiaries
46:44of the oil
46:45that comes through
46:45the Strait of Hormuz.
46:46My colleague,
46:47Karishma Asudani
46:48has this explainer now.
46:53The United States
46:54and Israel's war
46:55with Iran
46:55has spilled over
46:56into the Strait of Hormuz,
46:58one of the world's
46:59most critical energy
47:00choke points,
47:01prompting a surge
47:02in oil prices.
47:03Shipping through the
47:04Strait,
47:05which carries
47:05one-fifth of the oil
47:06consumed globally
47:07as well as large
47:08quantities of gas,
47:10has ground to a
47:10near halt
47:11amid Iranian attacks
47:13on oil tankers
47:14in the region.
47:15A commander
47:15in Iran's
47:16Revolutionary Guard
47:17Corp said on Monday
47:18that the Strait
47:19was closed
47:20and that any
47:20vessel attempting
47:21to pass through
47:22the waterway
47:23would be set ablaze.
47:24For India,
47:25which depends heavily
47:26on Middle East
47:27crude oil,
47:28this could translate
47:28into higher fuel prices,
47:30inflationary pressures
47:32and economic instability.
47:34The Strait of Hormuz
47:35lies between
47:36the Iran and Oman,
47:37connecting the Persian Gulf
47:38to the Gulf of Oman
47:39and Arabian Sea.
47:41At its narrowest,
47:42it's just 33 kilometers
47:43wide,
47:44with shipping lanes
47:45barely 3 kilometers
47:46wide in each direction.
47:48Despite its size,
47:49roughly 20%
47:50of the world's
47:51oil and gas supply
47:52passes through
47:53this corridor daily,
47:54about, say,
47:5520 to 21 million
47:56barrels of crude.
47:57It is also a vital route
47:59for liquefied natural gas,
48:01particularly from Qatar.
48:02This makes it
48:03one of the most
48:04strategically important
48:05trade arteries
48:06in the world.
48:07Most oil exports
48:08from OPEC producers,
48:10like Saudi Arabia,
48:11Iraq, Kuwait,
48:12the UAE,
48:13and the Iran,
48:14move through this trade,
48:15particularly to Asia.
48:16Qatar sends almost
48:18all its LNG exports
48:20through these waters.
48:22Even the threat
48:22of disruption
48:23is enough
48:24to send prices
48:25soaring.
48:26Bent crude
48:26has already
48:27surged sharply
48:28amid fears
48:28of escalation,
48:29with analysts
48:30warning that
48:31a prolonged closure
48:32could push prices
48:33beyond $100 billion.
48:35And,
48:36in extreme cases,
48:38it could actually
48:38go to $150
48:39per barrel.
48:40Oil markets
48:41are forward-looking,
48:42traders price in risk.
48:44When tankers halt,
48:45insurers cancel coverage
48:47and freight rates
48:48hit record highs.
48:49The impact is immediate
48:51even if the trade
48:52is not formally
48:53declared closed.
48:54Indian refiners
48:56are considering
48:56alternative crude oil
48:58sourcing options
48:58that bypass
48:59the trade of Hormuz.
49:01The refiners
49:01are also considering
49:02oil-on-water options.
49:07The oil factor,
49:09just one of the
49:09many factors
49:10that is being
49:12influenced by
49:13this escalating war
49:15in West Asia.
49:17Well,
49:18that's about all
49:18that we could
49:19pack in today.
49:20It's holy again
49:21in parts of the
49:22country tomorrow,
49:22so it's a two-day
49:23holiday for many of you
49:25and also the World T20
49:27semifinals
49:28begin tomorrow,
49:28so we've got
49:30plenty to cheer,
49:31but as you cheer,
49:32do think about those
49:33innocent civilians
49:34in particular
49:35who are today
49:36in a war zone.
49:38Is this an
49:38unnecessary,
49:39unprovoked war
49:40or a just war?
49:42You, the viewer,
49:43need to decide.
49:45We'll keep getting you
49:46voices from
49:47across the spectrum.
49:49Thanks for watching.
49:50Stay well,
49:51stay safe.
49:52Good night.
49:52Shubratri.
49:53Jayin.
49:54Namaskar.
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