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The big talking point of this episode of News Today is the escalating West Asia conflict following the killing of Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in joint US-Israeli strikes.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your primetime destination news,
00:04newsmakers, talking points. Donald Trump's war on Iran. What really is the end game in a fast
00:12developing situation? It is a conflict where the end game is simply not clear. We'll have voices
00:19once again from all the hot button areas in this growing, escalating conflict, plus every news
00:27that's coming in. But first, as always, I want to take you tonight to the top 10 developments for
00:35the day in that escalating conflict in West Asia. The West Asia war theater now expands as Iran doubles
00:44down, attacks Israel and multiple U.S. bases across the Gulf countries. UK, France, Germany say they
00:52are ready to join the war. UK base in Cyprus also hit by Iranian drones.
01:01Three U.S. F-15 Eagles shot down on Kuwait's territory during Operation Epic Fury. The U.S.
01:08say the jets were hit by mistaken friendly fire by the Kuwaiti air defense. All six crew members
01:14evacuated safely. Police? Yes. One minute. One minute. One minute. U.S. War Secretary Pete
01:23Hegsic says U.S.-Israeli strikes on Iran are not an endless war. Also calls the mission decisive
01:30and not about regime change. The U.S. military says that a fourth U.S. service member has been
01:36killed in the Iran attacks this weekend. Following overnight strikes by Hezbollah, Israel strikes
01:44back, takes out Hezbollah's intel chief in Beirut. Lebanese government bans military activities
01:50by Hezbollah. Gas prices soar as Qatar halts LNG production after the Iran attacks. Earlier,
01:59Iranian drones struck Saudi's oil giant Aramco, which then temporarily shut its Rastanora refinery.
02:08An Indian crew member is killed after an oil tanker is struck by an unmanned drone boat
02:13off the coast of Oman, triggering a fire, forcing the evacuation of all crew on board.
02:18This has hostilities between Israel and Iran continue to escalate.
02:25Forces say a senior U.S. defense official has told congressional staff that there was no
02:29intelligence indicating Iran was planning to attack American forces before the U.S.-Israeli
02:34military strikes. In a closed-door Pentagon briefing, it was acknowledged there were no clear signs
02:40that Iran intended to launch a first attack against the United States.
02:46Iran's ambassador to the IAEA says that the United States and Israel attacked Iranian nuclear
02:51facilities, specifically naming the Natanz facility as the target. The IAEA, the global nuclear watchdog,
02:57says there's no sign that Iran's nuclear sites have been hit.
03:04Russian President Vladimir Putin holds a telephonic conversation with the UAE counterpart
03:09Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nayyan, discusses the ongoing developments in the Middle East, speaks
03:14also to the Emir of Qatar.
03:19Dubai Airports announces a limited resumption of flights from Dubai International Airport and
03:23Dubai World Central, Al Maktoum International Airport starting in this evening.
03:40As you can see, much happening across the world. Let's just give you a picture with the images
03:46that we are getting from different parts of the world of all that's happened today. Remember,
03:51there have been dramatic developments in Kuwait, where a U.S. plane was allegedly, according
03:58to the Iranians, shot down by them. The U.S. says it's friendly fire. You've seen the missiles
04:03which have also hit parts of Tel Aviv. Tehran has also been struck by the U.S. and Israeli
04:10combined forces, as have other parts of Iran. So the war appears to be spreading with even
04:17a drone hitting Cyprus today. And there you've got European countries now offering possible
04:23involvement in the war. So you have a situation now where with every passing day, the West
04:31Asia war is spreading across a region, leading to destabilization. And even earlier today, there
04:39were explosions in different parts of the region.
04:43Now, the killing of Ali Khamenei, remember, created the original leadership vacuum in Iran,
04:49raising questions over the future of the regime and the direction of the U.S.-Israel campaign.
04:55U.S. President Donald Trump has been urging the Iranian people to take back their country.
04:59This evening, Defense Secretary Pete Hexin said the war will not be prolonged.
05:04The war could reshape regional politics. But the key question remains, does Donald Trump have
05:10an end-game plan? Take a look.
05:21America started the war. But does Washington know when to end it? The killing of Ayatollah
05:28Ali Khamenei has left a leadership vacuum in Iran. It could end in a regime change, but
05:33what comes next is still a mystery. President Donald Trump on Sunday urged the people of Iran
05:40to take back their country. Iran's formerly supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, is dead.
05:50This wretched and vile man, I call upon all Iranian patriots who yearn for freedom to seize this
05:58moment, to be brave, be bold, be heroic, and take back your country.
06:04Airstrikes by the U.S. and Israel took out a large section of the leadership, including
06:09some potential leaders who could have taken over.
06:14They are the world's number one state sponsor of terror. We are the world's greatest and
06:19most powerful nation, so we can do something about what they do. These intolerable threats
06:26will not continue any longer. On Monday, Trump's secretary of war, Peter Hexet, assured the country
06:33that the war will not be prolonged. To the media outlets and political left screaming endless wars,
06:40stop. This is not Iraq. This is not endless. I was there for both. Our generation knows better,
06:49and so does this president. Trump's popularity is at a low. This year, he needs Republicans to win
06:57the midterm elections, failing which he becomes lame duck president. With Khamenei's killing,
07:03Trump could revive the Republican fortunes and leave a lasting legacy, but only if the war is short
07:10and the regime that succeeds Khamenei is moderate. That brings us to the next question. Does Trump have
07:17an end plan? Bureau Report, India Today. Okay, let's first go to our ground reports today. I want
07:26to go first to Mayan Hoffman. She's a journalist in Tel Aviv. I appreciate your joining us, Mayan. We've
07:32been hearing through the day of missile attacks directed at Tel Aviv. There was one reportedly in
07:38which at least a dozen people have been killed. Can you give us the latest in terms of the situation
07:43on the ground, Mayan? Yes, thank you for having me here. So I'm here now, actually,
07:48back in Jerusalem. I've been traveling between Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. We had a direct missile
07:52strike actually in Beersheba today. That is in southern Israel. There were 19 people injured,
07:57most of them moderate, many of them also suffering from shock that was in a residential area in southern
08:02Israel. That followed a very large-scale attack that happened yesterday in a community called
08:07Beit Shemesh. That area is between Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. In that attack,
08:11nine people were killed, many of them family members, siblings, mothers and sons that were
08:18killed in that attack. In addition, dozens there were also injured, many of them still hospitalized.
08:23The rocket attacks have been pretty much ongoing. And of course, Hezbollah has also joined in with
08:29Iran. So we are seeing new strikes happen in the north, the IDF attacking Hezbollah, but Hezbollah also
08:34sending rockets into Israel. Mayan, therefore, are you saying, are these civilian areas which are
08:41being targeted across Israel? And is there any specific region that has been targeted?
08:48Well, I wish I could tell you there was a specific region, but in fact, missiles have been across the
08:52entire country. Generally speaking, when the IDF, the Home Front Command, sends out that there will be
08:57sirens, it's for all of central Israel, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, etc. And the south and the north have been
09:04being targeted. So really, the entire country, but definitely civilian areas. Civilians have been asked to
09:09hunker down near their homes, be close to a bomb shelter, because rockets could come at any time.
09:15The way the Home Front Command alerts people is they send out a preliminary warning that rockets have
09:20been fired or missiles or drones from Iran. And then they let us know when the rocket has gotten
09:25closer. You have about eight to 10 minutes from that initial warning to when you have to get in.
09:32Okay, I'll try and come back to you, Mayan, in a moment. I want to go to Tehran, where Yusuf
09:36Jalali
09:36is joining me, senior journalist there from Iran. Yusuf, give us the situation in Tehran. Mayan tells me
09:43that across Israel there have been these missile hits, but give us the situation where you are in
09:48Tehran, where presumably there have been even more strikes and even more casualties. One report suggesting
09:53officially, at least over 500 people have died in the attack so far.
10:02Iran has witnessed the most severe day in terms of the scope and the extent of the strikes that it
10:12received today. The capital, Tehran, was a scene of explosions, massive explosions everywhere, nearly
10:19everywhere. It was like a rain of bombs falling everywhere in the capital, Tehran. And as you
10:26mentioned, the death toll is now, as put by Iranian officials, is exceeding 550 people. But of course,
10:36today was very much significant in the sense that the Israelis and the Americans are no longer
10:43focusing on Iran's missile production facilities. They're now turning towards Iran's police and,
10:52of course, Iran's Basij paramilitary force, which is affiliated to the Islamic Revolution Guard's core.
10:59The reason they're doing this is that they believe that the Basij and the police
11:06was involved, these institutions were involved in suppressing the protests that erupted in
11:13late December last year and continued until January this year. So we can see Basij stations everywhere.
11:22The Basij stations are not limited to the areas outside of the urban areas, of course. They are
11:30built inside the country. And that is why you see that bombs and explosions are everywhere and
11:38neighborhoods inside Tehran are now targeted. And that is why you see that people are in a state of
11:44panic. And the war seems very close to targeting civilians right now because those entities and
11:51those buildings, Basij buildings and, of course, police stations are located inside civilian areas,
11:58commercial and residential areas. And that is why this increases the risk of civilian casualties.
12:07It's been, what, 24 hours, 36 hours since the news came that Ali Khamenei, the Supreme Leader,
12:13had been killed in one of the attacks. Has Iran come to terms with it, to what has happened,
12:17that it's Supremo, who's ruled the country for over 35 years, is no longer there? And has there been
12:24mourning or celebration? Because videos of both, some showing celebration, some showing mourning,
12:30have come across social media. Can you give us a sense on the ground?
12:35Well, of course, it's surprising how Iran moved past this incident very fast and easily and really
12:43smoothly. Nobody expected that the Islamic Republic would survive losing its supreme leader, a leader that
12:51has been ruling the country and has been leading the country for almost four decades. Now has gone and
12:59everybody expected that, just was expecting that the Islamic Republic would collapse following the
13:08death of Faitullah Khamenei. But of course, it's surprising that the Islamic Republic has survived this
13:16incident. And you can see that different Iranian officials are now trying to project resilience and
13:22saying that this is nothing that can shake the Islamic Republic. This system is built not
13:29not based on persons or individuals. But this is a system that is a resilient system. This system
13:37has been experiencing and witnessing and absorbing shocks, from economic shocks to military shocks. And
13:44that is why you see that the Islamic Republic continues to rule the country.
13:50But surely, in conclusion, they must be rattled by the fact that so many senior commanders have been
13:55killed in these very precise attacks. There are reports that the missile strikes that Iran has launched as a
14:04counter are seen to be an act of desperation. Does Iran have a strategy?
14:11Well, of course, Iran's strategy this time is different compared to what happened in June. Back in June,
14:18it was the first large-scale confrontation between Iran and Israel. And neither side knew
14:25the other side very well back then. The Israelis launched attacks against Iran. Then Iran passed for 24
14:35hours before launching salvos of missiles towards Israel. It was a conflict that was very much
14:40between Israel and Iran. And that is why the Iranian missiles that targeted the Israelis and the Israeli
14:46territories were hard to be, of course, absorbed by the Israelis. And the Israelis suffered severe blows
14:55out of those missiles and rockets. But this time around, it's a battle between Iran and the United
15:02States and Iran and Israel. So the Israelis and the Americans are jointly launching this operation
15:08against Iran. And this is why Iran knows very well that its missile capability is no longer going to
15:17save it from the war or from a defeat in the war. So the change in this strategy is that
15:24Iran really
15:25changed the nature of this war and turned it into a regional war by targeting those energy facilities and
15:31trade hubs in the region, in Qatar, in the UAE, other places, and even in Oman, which has been
15:40mediating between Iran and the U.S. So this is now Iran's card. It is trying to inflict heavy damage
15:46on the trade hubs in the region and to try to pressure regional countries to urge the United States to
15:53halt its actions inside Iran.
15:54Okay. Yusuf Jalali for joining us there and giving us a perspective from Iran. Not easy always. I know in
16:03the conditions that you are in to get internet connection, but I appreciate you joining us up with
16:09that live update at this moment. Now we're getting more breaking news. The U.S. President Donald Trump has
16:15once again vowed to escalate the West Asia war. Trump has now told the U.S. media, U.S. military
16:22is
16:22knocking out Iran, but the big wave is yet to come. Trump says the biggest surprise has been Iran's
16:29attacks against Arab countries. Trump says we don't know what succession plan is in Iran, who their new
16:36leader will be. Now that's very different to what Trump was saying just a few days ago when he seemed
16:42to suggest that there was a clear regime change plan in place. But he is vowing to escalate the war
16:48in West Asia. Remember, at least four U.S. soldiers have been confirmed dead as of now.
16:57With that breaking news, I want to go to a special guest, Colonel Douglas MacGregor,
17:02U.S. Army Colonel, former senior advisor to Secretary of Defense under President Trump,
17:07joins me. Appreciate your joining us, Colonel MacGregor.
17:11How do you see what's happened in the last 72 hours? It appeared that unlike in June, where Israel
17:19and the U.S. virtually had a free run of the skies of Iran now, the ballistic missiles are spreading
17:26across the region. Iran is striking back at UAE, at Bahrain, at Kuwait, and making it as Yusuf just
17:33described a regional war. Do you believe America is prepared for this for a long war now?
17:40No. And I hope that your audience understands that this war is now an Indian emergency as well.
17:47If India's $500 million investment in Shabahar is on fire and its oil routes are blocked, then
17:54Indian interests are at severe risk. You depend upon 2.6 million barrels of oil to flow through to your
18:03ports from the Strait of Hormuz every day. If that closes, then every Indian family ends up
18:08paying a war tax they didn't vote for. So I think it's, I hope that India understands this because
18:15India has a role to play in this crisis. We'll come to the Indian role, but what you're saying
18:22seems to suggest that you also believe that the arena of conflict this time is spreading
18:27far and wide with serious economic consequences. Am I correct?
18:32Well, of course. Every American base in the region has been hit. Even the American air base
18:40in Kirlik in Turkey has been struck. All of these bases have been rendered unusable by us. Whether they
18:47are seaports or airfields, it doesn't make any difference. So Iran has done really a spectacular job
18:55of simultaneously attacking all of these critical bases very early on. And finally, remember,
19:03this is probably going to go on for weeks or months unless someone sobers up in Washington.
19:11But the thing that will decide this outcome is logistics. We simply don't have enough missiles on
19:17hand and we have a very long line of communications that takes us all the way back to the United
19:22States.
19:22We've lost most of the ports, virtually all of them in the region that we would normally use to reload
19:29ships, reload missiles, reprovision our forces. So our elements at sea, as well as on land right now,
19:37are limited in how long they can maintain this war, contrary to what is being said in Washington right now.
19:42So are we to understand that Washington was not prepared for this kind of Iranian retaliation?
19:50Is that what you're suggesting, that in any war game planning in Washington at the Pentagon,
19:55there was no idea that Iran would immediately escalate this or try to escalate it into a regional
20:02conflict, which could then get far more prolonged?
20:05Well, whether or not someone in the Pentagon knew anything or thought it all through is a question
20:11I can't answer. But one thing is very clear. We don't have an end state in mind. There is no
20:17off
20:18ramp. The conditions that we demanded, which were really Israel's conditions from Iran, could not be
20:26met. They never could. So it's very obvious that what we need today is a way to stability. Right at
20:33the
20:33moment, we can't get there. You know, by the way, I think it's very important for people to understand
20:39that this war began with the Israeli strike. And frankly, at the time, we were not yet ready to fight,
20:47but we decided that we would go in in support of Israel anyway. So I don't think any of this
20:53is going
20:53to any sort of agreed strategic program or schedule. You made a very interesting point. You seem to suggest
21:02that this war in a way is being driven by the Israelis. They did the first strike and the
21:07Americans are simply following on on that, which is very strange. That normally doesn't happen.
21:12Normally, it's the other way around that the U.S. takes the lead. Are you saying it's been very
21:16different in that sense? Netanyahu is the one who has virtually pushed Donald Trump into this war.
21:23Netanyahu has more influence in Washington, where essentially, the Israel
21:29Israel lobby has purchased the Congress and the White House. President Trump owes his position in
21:35the White House to Zionist billionaires that funded him. So Israel is very much in control. The United
21:42States is not. And this is a serious problem. You'll note that the Secretary of Defense talked about
21:49Iran as a state sponsor of terrorism. Well, that's a lot of nonsense.
21:54He's referring to things that happened 47, 40 years ago. Iran has changed profoundly. And Iran is
22:01not a state sponsor of terrorism. If we were really concerned about radical Islam and terrorism,
22:07we'd be focused on Pakistan. Pakistan is the wellspring of radical Islam, financed in large part by Saudi
22:14Arabia. And now we have a government in Syria, which is a product of ISIS and al-Nusra and al
22:22-Qaeda.
22:23So why are we attacking Iran? We are attacking Iran because it's the last state in the region,
22:30at least at this point, that is presenting resistance to Israel. Israeli or Jewish supremacy
22:36in the region cannot be established until Iran is eliminated as a major player. So this is no longer
22:43about regime change. We're trying to destroy the Iranian state.
22:48But so when Donald Trump today turns and says that, look, we're going to escalate this war,
22:54you've not seen it in an unprecedented manner. It may take weeks. He's also warned of casualties.
23:03We've already got confirmed reports of four American soldiers. Are you saying it could get worse?
23:08Because one red line we are told is that there will be no use of U.S. ground troops come
23:14what may.
23:15Well, there can't be any use of ground troops simply because we don't have the ground troops to send.
23:20Our army is a fraction of what it was in the past. We simply can't project power into the region.
23:27If we try to project power into the region, ballistic missiles will destroy us. Cruise missiles will destroy us.
23:32This is a new world we're in. We're seeing the end of an old era and the beginning of a
23:37new one.
23:38You know, if you just look at the UAE, for instance, it is being effectively taken out of the world
23:45economy
23:46by a few cheap drones. And our missile defenses have turned out to be completely inadequate to the task
23:53of protecting the Gulf states, where we've invested time and money to effectively protect them. Well,
23:59we can't do it. And that's being demonstrated. I think the world is changing dramatically right now.
24:05So, Colonel McGregor, do you believe, therefore, regime change is possible or will that be off the table?
24:11Will this now be the U.S. and Israel claiming, look, we got Ali Khamenei out.
24:17Now we'll press the pause button, perhaps, and go back to the negotiating table. Does the U.S. have the
24:24appetite,
24:24I come back to it, for a prolonged confrontation, as you're saying, is more likely?
24:30No, there's no appetite in the United States for any sort of major war, let alone a long war. That's
24:36something that most Americans are unalterably opposed to. The Israelis have purchased the Congress
24:43and the White House. That's why we're doing what we are doing. There is no pressure or interest in the
24:49United States in any of this. What we want in the United States has nothing to do with what President
24:56Trump and Congress are doing right now. This really needs to be understood. In the meantime,
25:02supply chains, the global hub in the UAE with aviation, these things are being destroyed. You've
25:10got 4.6 million of your citizens stranded in the Gulf. India faces a domestic humanitarian crisis
25:19that no evacuation can easily handle. This is a disaster. That's why I said I hope that the Indian
25:26government, which is probably the only adult in the room left right now, can bridge this gap.
25:32We're entering a sovereign shift. The future of the world is not being written in Washington anymore.
25:38By the time this is over, the Sykes-Picot Treaty, which created all of these tiny Arab states after
25:45the First World War, will be irrelevant. You know, the future is being written now in the Persian Gulf
25:52and in Asia. It's time really for everybody to understand the world has changed. America doesn't
25:57want it to change. That is the American government. We're really fighting against the future right now,
26:03not just Iran, because Iran is not our enemy. It's Israel's enemy. But in conclusion, you've got the
26:10might of the American forces you've got and technology. You've got Israel with perhaps the
26:18sharpest intelligence that you can get and also a very strong force with technology. And you've got other
26:25nations slowly grouping, rallying around the U.S. and Israel. Are you telling me that Iran can resist
26:32this, you believe, for an extended period? Yes. I think Iran is resisting. And that's really all
26:39Iran has to do. Iran is the one that has to endure. It has to survive. And I think that
26:44it will.
26:45The United States is in a very difficult position now because of all the bombastic rhetoric from
26:50President Trump. We keep advertising ourselves as the most powerful nation in the world. That means
26:56that Iran has to submit unconditionally to whatever we demand based on what the Israelis demand.
27:02That's not going to happen. In the meantime, I think we figured out that a few thousand dollars
27:07worth of drones can take down a half trillion dollar economy in the Gulf. The UAE, a great example.
27:14This thing is going to drag on for months. The Chinese and the Russians are watching.
27:19Iranian air defenses are beginning to be effective. The missiles that Iran has are almost inexhaustible,
27:27whereas the missiles on our side are very limited and we can't produce them quickly. We can't surge
27:33power. We can't surge missiles. Okay. I'm going to leave this, Colonel McGregor,
27:39that you've in a way spoken out your mind and given us a very different perspective in a way
27:44there from the United States. I appreciate you joining me here on the show tonight. I want to
27:52turn, given the fact, as we said, and Colonel McGregor seems to believe that the nature of warfare is
27:58changing and these Iranian ballistic missiles are actually doing damage to the countries around them.
28:06How does this all play up? Who better to answer that than Sandeep Unithan, who tracks defense for the
28:12India Today group and knows a thing or two about war games, if I may call that, Sandeep? Iran versus
28:1914 nations.
28:20Try and explain to our viewers where this is happening, how Iran is slowly spreading the war across the region.
28:28Well, thanks, Rajseep. You know, what we're seeing here in West Asia right now is one of the most
28:33interesting conflicts in the history of the world, where one country has simultaneously targeted
28:39over a dozen nations in the span of just 72 hours. And it began, of course, on the 28th of
28:45February with
28:46Operation Urgent Fury and Operation Roaring Lion launched by the United States and Israel against Iran. And
28:53they took out Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. They assassinated him. This was an unprecedented
28:59series of strikes. The defense minister was killed. Top military commanders were eliminated. 20 or 30 of
29:05them. These were decapitation strikes. Again, something that we've never seen being done. One country
29:11launching decapitation strikes against another country's leadership. This is normally done against
29:16terrorist groups. This was done against one country. And now Iran has launched retaliatory strikes. It has
29:23expanded the zone of conflict beyond just Iran, of course. It's taken that conflict to a 3,000
29:31kilometer arc, starting from West Asia all the way, you know, Cyprus right up to Oman. That swath of
29:38countries, it has shown the ability to target all of these countries. Let's take a look at the countries
29:43that it's been targeted. Of course, it struck the U.S. Fifth Fleet Headquarters here in Bahrain, right here in
29:49the
29:49center of the Persian Gulf. It's just a few hundred kilometers away from Iranian missiles. This is
29:54something that Iran has planned to do for a very long time. They showed what they could do last year
29:59when they targeted some of those U.S. bases in this region. Bahrain, of course, is one of the key
30:05bases.
30:06It houses the U.S. Fifth Fleet right here. That is believed to have been struck multiple times. There have
30:12been
30:12explosions reported over there. They've struck a radar site. They've struck the headquarters of the
30:17U.S. Fifth Fleet. Now, each of these attacks makes it very difficult for the United States to refuel,
30:24replenish, rearm its platforms over there because they're all in the line of fire from Iranian drones,
30:31cruise missiles and ballistic missiles. And of course, the UAE was struck as well here, right across the
30:38Persian Gulf. Just across the Straits of Hormuz, there was a drone and missile barrage targeting
30:43not just the U.S. bases over there, but also commercial establishments. Something like 137 missiles,
30:50200 drones were launched. Now, this is to give you an idea, Rajdeep, you know this Saddam Hussein in 1991
30:58launched 88 Scud missiles in over one month, January to February of 1991. Iran has launched over 800 missiles
31:07in 24 hours. 800 projectiles have been launched in just 24 hours. It's unprecedented.
31:14You know, you're saying it's unprecedented, but if I may ask, where does that leave the air defense
31:18system? There's always been talk that the air defense systems that the United States has put in
31:23place, that Israel has put in place, will be sufficient to ensure, will act as, will ensure that
31:30the Iranians cannot achieve much success. Yet, as we are seeing in the last 24 hours, even the Burj being
31:36hit, why international airport being hit, clearly they've managed to get through those air defense
31:41systems. Well, Rajdeep, you know, even the best air defense systems in the world, the Patriots, the
31:47terminal high altitude area defenses have a kill rate of something like 90 to 96 percent, right? But that
31:53means that if Iran swarms these defenses, there are a few drones, there are a few ballistic missiles that
31:59will get through. And that's what we've seen in the UAE, in all of these places, which are heavily
32:05defended by Patriot batteries, THAAD batteries. Some of these drones have got through, ballistic
32:09missiles have got through. That's exactly how Iran has gained this whole thing. They've planned on
32:15doing this, overwhelming the system with multiple swarms of ballistic and cruise missiles. They've
32:20started, of course, with the low-cost drones, the Shahid-136 that they've used. And, of course,
32:27they've targeted Kuwait. Kuwait is another key frontline base. All of the bases which the US has in the
32:33region, which are meant to protect the Gulf countries, have been struck. Three US F-15s, of course,
32:40went down in an incident of friendly fire just today. And that just tells you when there's a fog of
32:45war, you have very tough times identifying your friends and foes. And this was taken down by a Kuwaiti
32:52Patriot battery. Three jets in a matter of minutes came down. That tells you about the cost of this war
32:58as
32:58well. When you have so many aircraft in the air, you know, your air defense systems kind of panic at
33:04times. There are these incidents of blue on blue. And that seems to have happened here as well. Iran is,
33:10of course, struck at Qatar. Sixty-five missiles, twelve drones. The Al-Udayd base, which is one of the
33:15largest US bases in the region, have been hit. There have been other energy sites as well that have been
33:21hit. So they've been, you know, adopting a two-pronged strategy of not just striking at the bases, at the
33:26military bases, but also at commercial centers as well, just to raise the cost to expand the arena
33:34of conflict to ensure that it's not just Iran that suffers, but the entire region. Like I mentioned,
33:40a 3,000 kilometer swath of territory right from Cyprus here in the distant west to Oman here in the
33:47east. And now that's a surprise. Oman, a country that was, you know, mediating this conflict, that
33:53is being struck as well. Dukum Port was struck. Okay, I'm going to leave it there, Sandeep.
34:00You've given us a broad idea of just how this theater of war has expanded so very quickly. Thanks
34:05very much. I want to turn to more breaking news that we're getting at the moment from the war zone,
34:11because NATO allies, who have also now spoken out, Spain has denied use of their military bases to
34:19attack Iran. Iran claims its nuke sites have been hit in the strikes. Iran claims that this was the
34:28U.S. strike. Qatar, meanwhile, has just claimed it has shot down two Iranian fighter jets. But the very
34:34fact that we're seeing more and more countries being dragged into the theater of war from Qatar
34:39yesterday to now Cyprus today. And as Colonel McGregor pointed out, were the Americans prepared
34:46for this kind of Iranian retaliation? Have there been certain miscalculations that the United States
34:54and Washington have made in the last 48, 72 hours? Did they even have an end game in mind? I
35:01want to
35:01take that to Geeta Mohan. Our diplomatic affairs editor joins me. Geeta, the United States suddenly seems to
35:10be groping at the moment for clear answers as to what their end game is, if at all they had
35:17one at the
35:18outset. Do you want to tell us this entire regime change that Donald Trump spoke about at the outset,
35:25now he says there was never a plan of regime change. He's not talking anymore of regime change. Can you
35:31tell us the miscalculation that they may have made? Well, absolutely. There were, I would say it was
35:37myopic and yes, there was miscalculation if the statements are to be believed. Now, Trump said we
35:44want to go in there, we want to strike Iran because we want the regime out. Now, if you look
35:50at it,
35:51these are just airstrikes. There has been no modern precedent for a regime change through airstrikes. You
35:58need boots on the ground. And that's not happened. We are looking at the Saddam Hussein regime in Iraq
36:05that collapsed only after ground invasion. Libya, again, another case after ground invasion. And so
36:12did the bombings in Kosovo. Slobodin Milosevic lost ground after ground invasion. So this is Saddam Hussein's
36:24collapse only after ground invasion. And similarly, Libya's, Muammar Gaddafi's regime fell once the
36:31rebels seized the area. So bombings weakened the administration, but bombings don't really turn
36:39and throw a regime out. Absolute miscalculation. There are the layers and the structures that we see
36:46in the Iranian structure, political and religious structure are very, very different. And that's why
36:53they are designed for shock absorption. They have done this for many, many years, Rajdeep. The fact
36:59that the structure is absolutely layered when it comes to the Iranian structure, it is the supreme
37:06leader. Then you have the political structure. It's not personality dependent. Khamenei goes,
37:12Arakchi in his interview to us very clearly said there's a council that will sit and elect another
37:16one. They've been doing this for years now where they've seen assassinations take place and leaders
37:23propped up immediately, immediately after the IRGC chief was killed and Wahidi was propped up
37:28immediately after power. Like I said, is distributed in layers. It's not concentrated in one place.
37:36Supreme leader, elected presidency, clerics, revolutionary guards, and then the bussage militia.
37:42So absolute clarity, Rajdeep, when it comes to how Iran works. But I don't think a DC or Trump for
37:51that matter and the Trump camp really took all this into account. And finally, miscalculation. When
37:58you're looking at going into Iran, you're looking at a striking without causing civilian casualty and
38:04kill Khamenei. There are people in the streets of Iran. How are you going to avoid civilian casualty then?
38:08Okay. Interesting. Because clearly, therefore, Donald Trump is someone who perhaps is finding that Iran
38:17is not quite Venezuela for certain. Thanks very much, Geeta, for joining us. That's the big question
38:23we've been raising today. What really is Donald Trump's endgame if there is any anymore? Regime change?
38:29Or is one order going to be replaced by another within the Islamic Republic of Iran? Has Trump really
38:37thought this through? Will Iran descend into chaos? Gulf safe havens exposed to war? And what should
38:44India's role really be at all? Ambassador Naftet Sarna is former Indian ambassador to the US and to Israel.
38:52Daniel Fry, former diplomat, is also joining us. I appreciate both of you joining us. I want to
38:58come to you and update Sarna first because you've been seeing what's happening in the last 72 hours.
39:05You've served in Israel. You've served in the US. Is this an operation, as many now believe, directed
39:10and driven by the Israelis, with America playing a supporting role and now struggling to actually
39:18come to terms with the Iranian retaliation?
39:23Thank you, Rashid. I think that sort of sums it up, except I don't think the US is playing a
39:28supporting role. The US is doing a lot of major heavy lifting and is also suffering in terms of US
39:35assets right across West Asia. But yes, it is a war which has been undertaken by the US with the
39:47very
39:47active instigation of Prime Minister Netanyahu. And I don't think there's been any confusion on the
39:59part of Israel as to its objectives. They've been wanting to do this for a long time. And they have
40:06told Donald Trump that given the weakness of the Iranian regime, given the economic problems, given the
40:13weakening of the capacity in the June war, and given the protests recently, this is probably a great
40:22opportunity to remove the regime. And President Trump's, again, there was no confusion. He made it very
40:28clear. He wants a regime change. Now, he may have realized that it was always a complex
40:38possibility. Iran has prepared for this moment. And whether anybody likes a regime or not is a separate
40:46matter. The fact is that this is not a regime. This is a regime which will fight to the end.
40:53And I think that is what we
40:55are seeing happening today. Daniel Fry, do you believe, therefore, the US has underestimated Iran's capacity
41:04to retaliate? Perhaps Donald Trump believing that Tehran could be like Caracas and has got it badly wrong?
41:14Or is that premature to say? Do you believe that the sheer military might of the US and Israel will
41:20eventually see regime change? Or is regime change at all on the table anymore?
41:32You're on mute. You're on mute, Mr. Frye. Sorry. You're on mute.
41:35Please excuse me. No longer on mute. Thank you. It is difficult to overthrow a regime using air power
41:48alone. That seems pretty clear from wars over the last 85 years.
41:59It is also clear. Well, it seems clear that the Iranian regime is going to fight hard
42:10and create as much destruction as possible in the region. It has done so in a way that has alienated
42:19the Gulf states and even caused the French, British and Germans to issue a statement offering cooperation
42:28with the US in defending against Iranian attacks. This is a remarkable statement.
42:38Whether or not Trump succeeds in regime change, I can't say.
42:43But I have noticed, I think you've noticed also, that President Trump has expressed US objectives
42:52in a variety of ways. Regime change is one, negotiations is another, and some kind of
43:01practical arrangement with a new leadership without regime change is yet a third. That would be something
43:07along the Venezuelan model. Trump has not defined his war aims clearly, partly because he doesn't know
43:16how successful the war will be, how much damage, how many casualties US will suffer, and whether or not
43:25he can succeed in his maximum objectives. So he's holding out a variety of objectives, and he loves to
43:33keep his options open, as they think he's doing in this case.
43:38Natneth Sarna, given what we're hearing from several of our guests in the United States,
43:43that Trump hasn't spelt out the clear objectives, what should India be doing? We've just heard Prime
43:49Minister Modi's spoken to the King of Jordan. He spoke yesterday to the UAE leadership, expressed his
43:55support and solidarity. India has stayed silent on Ali Khamenei's death. There's no reports of India
44:02reaching out in that sense, although there was a conversation between our Foreign Minister
44:07Jaishankar and his Iranian counterpart, but nothing in the public domain in that sense,
44:12in terms of any kind of sympathy or solidarity. Have we clearly picked a side? And our side at the
44:18moment is US-Israel. The Prime Minister was in Israel only last week. Does it give us less leverage in
44:25any
44:25way to even mention de-escalation? Will we be taken seriously by the Iranians in particular anymore?
44:33I think, Rajdeep, things are moving at so fast a pace that, yes, I think India should not be worried
44:42or be hesitant about where we were or who our friends are or who are not so friendly to us.
44:48This is the
44:49moment to get active, to talk to every partner. After all, our entire approach to West Asia has been to
44:57build up bilateral relations rather than going for an overall regional approach. So we have equities
45:05with each of them and we must exercise them now because this is in our interest. We have about 9
45:12million
45:12people spread across the region. Our energy intake comes from that area to a very large extent. And
45:20whatever happens there, whatever instability comes there is going to be impacting upon us. So I think
45:28this is the time for India to step up the game of talking to as many people to try and
45:34play as much
45:35role as we can and ask for de-escalation without hesitation. If we are close to Israel, then we should
45:42put pressure on Israel. If we are close to any of the Gulf countries, which we are, then I think
45:48we need to work with them because that's in the interest of our people. A lot of our people are
45:52going to get in harm's way if this continues. So I think these conversations that have now begun with
46:01the King of Jordan and others, I think these are steps in the right direction and should continue.
46:07What happens to any reach out at all to Iran? Are you saying that at the moment, given the turbulence
46:13and the fluctuating situation, India does not reach out in any manner to Iran and waits to see what
46:19happens? Because India seems to be playing. The fact that we went to Israel only last week,
46:26just while, just 48 hours before the attacks took place, clearly seems to suggest that we are in a
46:32multi-aligned world, aligned at the moment with Israeli interests. You don't agree?
46:37Why have we chosen not to say a word on Ali Khamenei? Why did we choose not to say even
46:42one word on the
46:43death of the Iranian supreme leader? I think that is something which is being debated about in our
46:48domestic politics extensively. And I think there are several aspects to it. Yes, at one stage, he is a
46:55sitting head of state. And for any other country to come in and take out, no matter what kind of
47:01a
47:01person he is, is, I think, a transition of international law into an area of complete,
47:08complete confusion. On the other hand, I think if you analyze statements of a lot of other countries,
47:14India has also gone on what is being called the national interest paradigm. A lot of the Europeans,
47:20a lot of the Gulf countries have not condemned the killing of Ali Khamenei. So we have been silent
47:28on that aspect. I'm not saying this is right or wrong. I'm just trying to explain the policy behind
47:33it. At the same time, I think we have reached out to Iran. I think we have spoken to the
47:38Iranian
47:38foreign minister. And we are probably playing with the information that even within Iran,
47:45the society is today polarized. There are people who are mourning the death of their leader. There
47:54are people who are not so unhappy with the death of the leader. And that is within Iran. But I
48:01think
48:01we are a state outside. And at some stage, we will have to take a line on what our stand
48:08is going to be
48:09in terms of international law. The fact remains today that no country is talking of international law.
48:17So India will have to choose its moment as to when do we start taking that line?
48:24You know, I'll push you once more, Mr. Sarna. Do we have a role to play, given that there are
48:34vast number of Indians in the Gulf, presumably? Do we really have that kind of leverage, you believe? Or
48:41given the volatile situation, it's best to stay out at the moment?
48:45No, I don't think I don't think we have very great leverage in terms of the fact that, you know,
48:51we can't go and tell somebody that, no, you stop shooting. We certainly don't have that kind of
48:56leverage. What we have is our own interest. And for our own interest, given the kind of people that
49:02who are, you know, who are at risk there, we can use our friendships, we can choose our partnerships,
49:08and keep speaking to people. But I agree with you entirely. This is a this is a game which has
49:14gone
49:15beyond simply picking up the phone and talking to people. This is a major war is a major conflagration
49:21in the Middle East. And it is only up to the United States and to Israel to make it come
49:30to a halt.
49:31And they will do it at the time of their choosing, or when Iran has pushed them into a position
49:37in
49:38which they begin to feel the price. And this is what the Iranian regime, which is going to fight to
49:44the end, is trying to do by embroiling as many countries as possible. Donald Trump is not a man
49:51who would have said, I want four weeks of war. He's losing his MAGA base even. So I think the
49:57real
49:58players there are U.S., the Iranian regime, and Israel. And ultimately, I think we and many other
50:06countries, including Europe, have a very limited leverage on those decisions.
50:12Okay. Naftet Sarna, Daniel Fried, for joining me. I appreciate both of you joining me on the show
50:18tonight. Thank you very much. There's lots to talk about. The war in West Asia is becoming more reckless
50:25and dangerous by the day. The Trump-Netanyahu duo have abandoned diplomacy, destabilized an already
50:34volatile region, risked a broader conflagration, causing global economic disruption. Unilateral
50:41strikes violate international norms. Yes, Iran's regime's track record, especially on human and gender
50:49rights is deeply troubling, as is its support for armed groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. But while
50:55regime change may be seductive in theory, it only throws up more chaos and is extremely dangerous as
51:03a precedent in international law. Iran is not Venezuela, as the U.S. has realized in the last 48 hours.
51:11The killing of Ali Khamenei may be seen by the U.S. President as a prize trophy. But does Trump
51:18really
51:18have a plan for what follows in his wake? Or is he being strung along by Netanyahu into a battle
51:25few
51:26Americans really want to engage in as every poll shows? An embattled Iran too is now attempting to
51:35spread the conflict across West Asia in an attempt to widen the theater of war and put increasing
51:43pressure on the United States. Truth is, this is not a time for muscle flexing, but for quiet diplomacy
51:51to bring the warring sides back to the negotiating table before it is too late. Ordinary citizens across
51:59West Asia are paying a heavy price for geopolitical hubris of a few individuals. The question is, is there
52:09anyone with the moral authority left to call out the warmongers? Don't forget, the same Donald Trump, when
52:17campaigning for president in 2024, promised that he would never take America to war again. Who will now call out?
52:25The leader of the United States who simply won't follow a rules-based world order. Think about it.
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