- 2 hours ago
As tensions escalate in West Asia, politics has erupted over Modi government’s 'silence' on Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, killing in joint US-Israeli strikes.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching To The Point. I am Kreeti Chaudhary.
00:04Our continued focus on what continues to ensue in West Asia, where the world is concerned.
00:10You'll get to the latest updates, allow me to get to the headlines.
00:17Big claim by U.S. President Trump amidst raging wars says Iran wants to talk, but it's too late.
00:23Meanwhile, Iran says they are ready for negotiations, but with dignity.
00:33Lebanon says group invasion by Israeli troops says our army evacuating advanced positions.
00:40Now Israel army conducting operations inside Lebanon.
00:49Israel shadow war in Tehran to kill Khamenei.
00:52Traffic cameras turned spy tools, cyber intel, digital stalking to track Khamenei surveillance on Khamenei before strike.
01:05Indians stranded in West Asia, return home, rescued Indians we count harrowing ordeal.
01:10Thank Government of India for rescuing them. Limited flights operations from UAE begin.
01:19Prime Minister Modi dials eight Gulf leaders amidst escalating tensions in West Asia and condemns the attack.
01:26Today, Prime Minister Modi spoke to the Emir of Qatar, Sultan of Oman and Crown Prince of Kuwait and stood
01:32in solidarity with them.
01:39Sonia Gandhi questions Prime Minister's silence on Khamenei killing, says government silence, not neutral, but abdication.
01:48Sonia Gandhi expresses doubt on India's foreign policy, called silence by Modi government disturbing.
02:08All right, let's cut across to the latest news break that is coming in.
02:11A short while ago, President Trump had said that Iran wants to negotiate, speak, but it's too late.
02:16Iran's big response after Trump's too late claim, says ready for talks, but with dignity.
02:22Earlier, Trump had said it was too late for talks with Iran.
02:25Iran's air defense, navy leadership is gone.
02:28But the latest right now that is coming in is, of course, Iran, which has said that they are ready
02:34for talks, but there needs to be dignity involved.
02:37Now, what really entails dignity when full-blown military operations are on, when the Supreme Leader has already been assassinated,
02:45along with 40 commanders, the top position where Iran is concerned.
02:50We're going to try and get an award from our reporters, but that's the latest news break that is coming
02:54in.
02:55All right, the latest right now.
02:58President Trump says Iran wants to talk, but it's too late.
03:01Iran says open to talk, but with dignity.
03:04We'll keep a keen eye on all developments, but all that is raging on in West Asia has implications when
03:11domestic politics back home is concerned.
03:13The principal opposition party, the Congress, has taken on the Modi government for silence on Kamenai's killing, warning it risks
03:21eroding the nation's global credibility.
03:36War raging in West Asia.
03:39After killing of Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, India is witnessing a massive political war.
03:47Congress Parliamentary Party chairperson Sonia Gandhi lashed out at the Modi government,
03:54calling its silence on Khamenei's assassination, not neutral, but abdication.
04:00She warned that India's silence is tacit endorsement of the killing.
04:05Writing in a national daily and seeking a full debate in parliament,
04:09Sonia Gandhi slammed the government for ignoring the U.S.-Israel onslaught
04:12and pointed out the assassination occurred without a declaration of war, calling it a violation of international law.
04:20She accused Prime Minister Modi of limiting his response to mere words about dialogue,
04:26urging clarity, courage and moral leadership.
04:31Leader of opposition in Lok Sabha, Rahul Gandhi echoed his mother
04:35and urged Prime Minister Modi to speak up, warning that inaction now could erode India's credibility on the world stage.
04:46BJP hit back sharply, calling Sonia's claims misleading, stating that India has not been silent.
04:52They said that restraint protects millions of Indians in the Gulf and safeguards national interests.
04:59On Monday, Prime Minister Modi had called the widening conflict a matter of grave concern,
05:05stressing that India backs dialogue and diplomacy.
05:31Iran's supreme leader, Khamenei, was killed in a massive strike carried out by Israel and United States early Saturday.
05:37Back home, the debate rages, diplomacy or silence?
05:42Is India protecting its national interests at the cost of its credibility?
05:48Bureau Report, India Today.
05:54All right, so where domestic politics is concerned, viewers, it is exploding,
05:59because at one end you have the principal opposition in the country, Congress.
06:04You've seen Sonia Gandhi has written an editorial opinion piece where she has taken on the government
06:10for maintaining abject silence when it comes down to the assassination of a world leader,
06:15saying, what if tomorrow our country is attacked, what face will we have?
06:20I want to cut across in the midst of all of this to former law minister, foreign minister, Mr. Salman
06:26Khurshid.
06:27We're going to cut across to him in just about a minute.
06:29Let's cut across first to Syed Zafar Islam, BJP, former parliament member, Rajya Sabha member.
06:37Mr. Islam, today you stand accused, which is the government stands accused for maintaining complete silence
06:44on the taking down of an international leader and not saying a word,
06:50despite the kind of long-standing friendship we have had with Iran.
06:56First of all, you have to understand that Atilla Khamenei was not holding a constitutional position.
07:03He was a religious leader.
07:04He was known as Atilla and he was designated as a supreme leader,
07:11not on a constitutional position, but on a religious ground.
07:16So, you have to also understand that every country has to be directed by or follow the national interests first,
07:28and we are just following the national interests first.
07:31Having said that, what is important for us is that we are talking to every single country involved in this
07:36conflict,
07:37and we are only communicating one message, that we, India, is advocating peace through dialogue and diplomacy,
07:44something which has been very clearly articulated by the Honourable Prime Minister in his tweet as well.
07:50And this is what we are communicating to every country.
07:52And today, I can see on this program that even Iran has agreed to negotiate and discuss once again
07:59if they are willing to come to the negotiation table,
08:02purely because they also feel that it is important to pursue diplomacy instead of having this kind of conflict.
08:13Secondly, what is important for Congress Party to realize that diplomacy is there and foreign policy is a dynamic process,
08:21not a static process.
08:22What they had followed in 1991 or 1995, something cannot be followed.
08:26And similarly, you also remember during Arab Springs,
08:30many senior leaders, many leaders of Arab countries have been eliminated.
08:38That time, neither during Gaddafi nor even Saddam's time,
08:43any apologies or any condemnation or any something,
08:46any tweet or message or condemnation has been sent by the government of India at that point of time.
08:53So they have absolutely no leg to stand when it comes to diplomacy because we are following what is important
08:58for us
08:58and we are following the nation-first policy and something which is important for us, we are doing that.
09:03As far as a country is concerned, we have the Honourable Prime Minister has spoken to every single country.
09:09But there is no leader in Iran, so he has not spoken.
09:16But the Foreign Minister has spoken to both Israel and Iran and pursued the same thing
09:23and they conveyed the message of the Prime Minister that we want diplomacy
09:27and dialogue should be prioritized instead of this kind of a conflict.
09:32Said Zafar Islam, in the year 1989, the Constitution of Iran was amended to recognize Ayatollah Ali Khamenei as the
09:39Supreme Leader.
09:40So in that context, you know, the Constitution was revised.
09:43Number two, we have always interacted with Ayatollah Ali Khamenei as,
09:48and there are visuals of that as well, with the Prime Minister meeting him as well.
09:52So it's not that we haven't recognized Iran under his leadership.
09:55We have, we've respected that.
09:56The question that today is being raised, that there is something called international law and international justice,
10:01what really has happened in Iran flies against international law.
10:05It has been recognized by certain countries, very vocally so,
10:08while Iran has been our friend.
10:11Let me ask you one thing.
10:12Why are we criticising a world leader being assassinated today, despite negotiations being gone?
10:18Prati, let me ask you one thing, very candidly.
10:21You know that there are 57 countries, part of an organization of Islamic countries.
10:27None of them have actually condemned.
10:30Why?
10:30They are Islamic countries, Muslim Brotherhood.
10:33They have not condemned purely because of the dynamic, current dynamics and the...
10:38But we are not one of them.
10:40But Zafar Islam, sir, why are we connecting the silence of certain Gulf countries to our relationship with Iran?
10:47We had a very friendly relationship with Iran.
10:49We call Iran our friend.
10:50If that has changed, then that needs to be explicit.
10:54Prati, we continue to call them as our friend.
10:57There is absolutely no disconnect as far as the friendship goes with Iran.
11:01We are friend.
11:02We continue to be friend.
11:04And that is why the foreign minister of our country had spoken to the foreign ministry of Iran,
11:08because we enjoy that kind of relationship.
11:12But you also have to understand that one can play a limited role.
11:18And the role which has been primarily, which is important for every country, is something which is peace.
11:24And that is something with the honour of the prime minister is advocating.
11:27And that is what the message which has been conveyed through foreign minister to the foreign minister of Iran,
11:35that we want dialogue.
11:36But Mr. Islam, why cannot the message of peace be delivered at the same time of criticizing an international leader's
11:44assassination?
11:44Didn't he criticize in the first tweet when the honourable prime minister sent once, first tweet?
11:52And he did mention, and the message of the government was very clear.
11:55Where did he criticize, sir?
11:57No, no, the message of the government was very clear.
11:59The first message which went from our government,
12:03very, very clearly that we recognize the sovereignty of every country,
12:07and that's something which needs to be respected.
12:09Something which is, this is what you are talking about,
12:10and this is what the message which has been given by the government of India.
12:15So where is the question of not acknowledging the fact that every country's sovereignty is important
12:22and something which needs to be respected, something which we have already stated?
12:27Okay, so you're saying, you know, that even though the foreign minister has spoken,
12:32we somewhere down the line in a veiled way suggested that sovereignty needs to be respected,
12:37but we haven't outrightly come out and criticized an international leader's assassination
12:43which goes against international law and all sorts of conventions primarily
12:48because we need to watch out for our own interest.
12:50Is that what you're saying?
12:53No, all I'm saying that you cannot equate the situation what it was 20 years ago
13:00or 15 years ago or 10 years ago.
13:02So you have to see the current dynamics and you know that the foreign policy is a very dynamic process.
13:09It cannot be static.
13:11But Mr. Vislav, I'll quote out of Ms. Gandhi's piece.
13:15I'll quote out of Ms. Gandhi's piece because she's seemingly suggesting
13:19that our silence is abdication of our responsibility
13:23because if tomorrow there is somebody at our doorstep
13:26and there is an aggressor where India is concerned,
13:29where do we stand?
13:31With what face do we condemn that if we can't condemn this?
13:34No, but Mrs. Gandhi, before making this kind of a statement
13:38or criticism against the government,
13:40she should do a backtesting and must tell the people that during UPA,
13:45when she was the chairperson, what did they do?
13:50Did they criticize, condemn Saddam Hussein when he was hanged?
13:55Did they condemn when Gaddafi was eliminated?
13:58Did they do when any other Arab leaders were eliminated during Arab springs?
14:03No, they didn't do anything.
14:04So how do they, making this kind of a statement
14:07or making this kind of suggestion to our government?
14:10They followed certain diplomacy, diplomatic process,
14:14what they feel appropriate at that point in time.
14:17We are following now what is important for the country.
14:20So we have to always prioritize the country's interest,
14:23not an individual suggestion or...
14:26All right.
14:26You know, Mr. Vislav, let me ask exactly that.
14:29I thank you for joining us.
14:30There's a reason why we did not get into a debate this evening,
14:33primarily because we wanted to get both lucid thoughts out
14:37with what the government stands
14:38and with what the opposition is claiming.
14:40These are very sensitive times, diplomatically so.
14:43Thank you for taking the time out and answering all our questions.
14:45I want to take the question that you asked me
14:47to the former foreign minister of this country,
14:50Mr. Salman Khurshid.
14:52Appreciate you taking the time out and joining us, Mr. Khurshid.
14:54I'll take off from the conversation that we were having.
14:57You know, today you have Ms. Gandhi come out and criticize India's silence
15:01where it came down to the assassination of a world leader.
15:05Having said that, what BJP and the government says is that during the UPA era,
15:11where you were, you know, the law minister, the foreign minister,
15:15when Colonel Gaddafi was killed, for example, we didn't criticize it.
15:19We took a very similar stand of what India has taken where Iran is concerned.
15:26Well, the question is, is what happened in the past
15:30can't possibly be the guiding spirit of what happens today
15:36because the implications of any act that you may disagree with
15:41but may not be critical of are different at different points of time
15:45as far as the world is concerned.
15:47And therefore, we have to talk about today, not yesterday,
15:51we have to talk about today, and also we have to talk about
15:55the special relationships that we have in the world today.
15:58And certainly, we have a relationship with Israel, and we should preserve it.
16:04We have a relationship with the United States of America.
16:06It's on turbulent waters, but we should preserve it.
16:10We have a relationship with Russia. We should preserve it.
16:13We have a relationship with Europe. We must preserve it.
16:15But we also have a relationship with Iran, and we need to preserve it.
16:19Are we doing enough to preserve that relationship is the big question.
16:24All right. So, you know, Mr. Khurshid, are we doing enough to, you know,
16:27preserve that relationship?
16:29Something that was elucidated in the opinion piece by Ms. Sonia Gandhi,
16:33who's actually come out and said that this is, in terms of staying silent,
16:37is not being neutral, but is abdication of what is our responsibility.
16:42Therefore, the parallels that are being drawn, Mr. Khurshid, of what the UPA
16:48and the manner of which it reacted, very similar to how India has reacted.
16:56Well, I certainly think that in recent history, there are few leaders who would speak
17:04with the clarity, compassion, and the creativity as she has.
17:13And that commitment is apparent in the words that she has used.
17:17But this is not today that something like this has happened with the foreign policy of our country.
17:24This has been going on for some time.
17:27When you make foreign policy into a transactional business,
17:31when you lose sense of propriety, you lose sense of values, morality,
17:37and consistency in a pattern in your foreign policy,
17:41inevitably you run into roadblocks.
17:44And this is a very, very, very severe roadblock that we will regret in times to come.
17:52Mr. Khurshid, these are also very different times when geopolitics is concerned.
17:56India needs to walk a very tightrope diplomatically.
17:59On one level, India has not openly condemned the assassination of Iran's supreme leader,
18:06but our external affairs minister has spoken with Iran as well,
18:09because we have friends on both sides.
18:11You have Iran, who is your friend, but you also have an ally in Israel,
18:15and your friend America.
18:17Yeah.
18:21No doubt, no doubt, certainly no doubt that we have friends in Israel,
18:26we have friends in the United States of America,
18:28we have friends in Russia, China, we have friends in Iran,
18:31we have friends everywhere.
18:33But that's the point, that's the point.
18:35If you don't have the courage,
18:37and you don't have the wisdom to be able to tell the truth to your friends,
18:42then what is friendship?
18:44Friendship is not about just following some track,
18:47which you think will do good for you, etc.
18:50That's an important pragmatic concern in international relations and diplomacy.
18:57But that's not all.
18:59Indian diplomacy has always been value laden.
19:02It's been important in terms of morality.
19:05And I think that that's gone completely.
19:07But it's not just morality.
19:08It's also our commitment to world order.
19:10It's our commitment to the United Nations and the Charter of the United Nations.
19:18Everything along the line remains completely, completely overwhelmed.
19:23And I think that's a tragic moment for us and our foreign policy.
19:26You know, these are tumultuous times where geopolitics is concerned, Mr. Khurshid.
19:31But for somebody who was the External Affairs Minister,
19:34I ask you this question.
19:35What do you reckon will be the repercussions of India
19:38not taking a clear stand on the assassination of Iran's supreme leader?
19:45See, the repercussions are difficult to predict
19:48because everything is in such a tumblewash today in the world.
19:53Nothing can be clearly predicted.
19:55We don't even know how much longer whatever is happening will go on.
20:00We don't even know the final fallout
20:03and to what extent this will cause the economic distress across the globe.
20:09But as far as we are concerned,
20:11we have started losing friends
20:13and we have started losing respect in the world
20:17on many, many issues.
20:19And I think that that calls for very, very important and immediate repair.
20:25And that can only be possible if we once again return to the path of principle.
20:31Pragmatism, to an extent, may be fine,
20:36but pragmatism, dominating principle,
20:40completely destroys the special position India has always had in international relations.
20:46Okay, thank you, Mr. Khrushcheid, for taking the time out,
20:49joining us this evening and putting your parties and your point of view forward.
20:53Appreciate it.
20:54With that, I want to get into a quick break,
20:55but before that, news break coming in.
20:57The Russian nuke body has now raised alarms over the war's impact.
21:02Warning of threat to Bushaher nuke plant in Iran
21:06says strikes on Iran's nuclear facility are getting out of control.
21:09Russian nuke body CEO has suggested
21:12that the Bushaher nuclear power plant is under threat as explosions are nearby.
21:17Says there are more than 600 people at the nuclear power plant in Iran
21:22and there could be leakage.
21:24So, raising a red flag where Russia's nuke body is concerned.
21:31All right, the latest news break right now coming in.
21:33The White House has defended Operation Epic Fury in Iran.
21:37President Trump told Iran 74 times,
21:39well, that is the press release coming in from the White House,
21:42that President Trump told Iran 74 times that they cannot have nuclear weapons.
21:49He had been unequivocal and consistent for decades.
21:53Now, U.S. President J.D. once has said
21:56what President Trump told Iran was that they were committed
22:02to getting on that brink of a nuclear weapon
22:05and he decided to take action
22:07because he felt that was necessary in order to protect the nation's security.
22:11All right, we have the Vice President who has come out
22:13defending the action, a joint operation of Israel and America
22:20where Iran is concerned,
22:21stating that President Trump felt and he knew
22:26that Iran was on the brink of a nuclear weapon
22:29and he decided to take action
22:31because he felt that was necessary
22:32to protect the nation's security.
22:35All of this in context will need to be seen
22:38in context of the domestic politics in America as well, viewers,
22:41because President Trump, if you initiate war, have to go back to the Congress.
22:47He did not do so.
22:49So there is a fair amount of commentary on that as well.
22:54There is criticism coming in from the domestic politics of America as well.
22:59Having said that, even where natural allies of America were concerned,
23:03NATO countries, many of them today have stood against President Trump.
23:08Most of them, of course, have sided with Trump.
23:10What Asia, West Asia now remains as on edge
23:14as military tensions expand, triggering political shockwaves across Europe.
23:19This is how the world has been split.
23:21Take a look.
23:32The war on Iran is reverberating far beyond the battlefield.
23:37U.S. airstrikes are exposing widening fault lines inside NATO,
23:42highlighting sharp differences over how far the military alliance
23:46should go in confronting Tehran.
23:49As Washington adopts a hard military posture,
23:53several European capitals are urging restraint,
23:56raising fresh questions about transatlantic unity.
24:06British Prime Minister Sarkis Sharma has rejected calls for regime change,
24:11saying Britain's priority is safeguarding national interest.
24:14London has permitted limited defensive use of British bases by U.S. forces.
24:20The signal is cautious support, not open-ended involvement.
24:26President Donald Trump accused Starmor of delaying base access.
24:31The British Prime Minister rejected that claim,
24:33saying decisions were taken in the United Kingdom's national interest.
24:39President Trump has expressed his disagreement with our decision
24:42not to get involved in the initial strikes.
24:46But it is my duty to judge what is in Britain's national interest.
24:52That is what I've done, and I stand by it.
24:58Spain has taken a firmer stance,
25:01refusing U.S. access to its bases for operations linked to Iran.
25:05Madrid says European territory should not be used to escalate the conflict.
25:15It is possible to be against a hateful regime.
25:19Spanish society as a whole is against the Iranian regime,
25:22and at the same time be against an unjustified, dangerous military intervention
25:27that is outside international law.
25:29One must be against a war.
25:31That was started without the authorization of the United States Congress
25:35or the United Nations Security Council,
25:37and as I said before, violates the international law.
25:41And there is always room for a negotiated solution,
25:44rather than being swept away by the devastation of weapons
25:48as the only possible outcome.
25:53Canada says it was not informed in advance
25:56and is backing diplomacy over escalation.
26:02France is balancing alliance commitments
26:04with outreach to global powers to push for de-escalation.
26:11Germany has ruled out committing military assets,
26:14warning NATO must avoid a prolonged Middle East war.
26:21Turkey, Iran's ally in NATO,
26:24has condemned the strikes as violation of international law
26:28while navigating its complex regional ties.
26:33Tensions have been building for months now.
26:36President Trump's remarks after taking Greenland by force,
26:40threats of tariffs on partners such as Denmark, Sweden, France,
26:45the United Kingdom, the Netherlands and Finland
26:48and repeated warnings about weakening or withdrawing from NATO
26:51have unsettled the alliance and deepened mistrust.
26:59The strikes on Iran are not just a regional crisis.
27:03They are a test of NATO's cohesion.
27:06If divisions deepen,
27:07the alliance could face one of its most uncertain movements in decades.
27:12Bureau Report, India Today.
27:24All right, the latest coming in.
27:27There's been a fresh wave of Israeli strikes on Iran.
27:29Reports suggest the area close to Iran's assembly
27:32of experts tasked to choose a leader in Tehran was hit.
27:37That's the latest news coming in.
27:39All of this viewers also in the backdrop of President Trump
27:42claiming that Iran wants talks but now it's too late.
27:45And there has been a response from Iran as well
27:48saying that they are open to talks but with dignity.
27:51I want to bring in our Foreign Affairs editor,
27:54Geeta Mohan, into this conversation.
27:55Geeta, you know, while Israel continues to build an offensive
28:00where Iran is concerned,
28:02you have Donald Trump once again who said Iran wanted talks
28:05but now it's too late.
28:06But this time around, instead of saying
28:09that they were not willing to negotiate,
28:11Iran has said they are open to talks but with dignity.
28:14What does dignity mean at a time, Geeta,
28:17when their top leadership has been taken out?
28:19They are under heavy attack.
28:24Okay, I'm going to try and connect to my colleague,
28:26Geeta Mohan, in just about a short while
28:28but that's the latest news break that is coming in.
28:31Israel mounting a fresh line of offensive
28:34where Iran is concerned
28:35and the area that they have chosen
28:37is where the Council of Ministers
28:41are congregating the assembly point
28:44of that council that has been put together
28:48and chosen to pick a new leader.
28:52All of this morning as well,
28:54you had Israel building a strong offensive against Iran.
28:59Iran is being bombed constantly there.
29:03Possibly the reason why Iran has said
29:05that they are willing,
29:06that Iran is willing to speak but with dignity.
29:09Having said that, where does dignity lie
29:12and what does dignity actually mean
29:14in circumstances such as this?
29:16because they have lost their supreme leader.
29:19He's been assassinated despite of talks
29:21that were going on.
29:22The kind of pummeling that Iran has seen
29:25in the last couple of hours
29:27has been unprecedented.
29:29We are going to continue to get our viewers more
29:31but let's cut across right now to our guest.
29:33Joining me, Professor David K. Johnston,
29:36Pulitzer winning journalist
29:37and also the author of The Making of Trump.
29:41He's with us this evening.
29:42Appreciate it, sir.
29:43Thank you, Professor, for taking the time out
29:45and joining us.
29:46What do you make of the most recent developments,
29:49especially in terms of how we've seen Iran's retaliation?
29:54President Trump has now gone on record
29:56the third time to say that Iran wants talks
29:58but it's too late.
30:04Well, the most important story
30:07that's getting very little attention
30:08is that within 24 hours before the U.S. and Israel attacked
30:14the Iranians offered Donald Trump
30:16a better deal than Barack Obama got in 2015
30:20that included limits with inspection
30:23on refining uranium
30:25and allowing American oil companies into Iran.
30:30They gave him this tremendous deal
30:32so he could brag,
30:33I out-negotiated Barack Obama
30:35and the response of the U.S. and Israel
30:37was to bomb Iran.
30:40Reasonably, the government in Tehran
30:42looks upon the U.S. as a country
30:44that is not trustworthy,
30:46that will lie to your face
30:48and could probably appropriately describe
30:51the Trump administration
30:52as a group of savages.
30:53And this is the part
30:55that's gotten almost no attention in the news.
30:57The Iranians made this tremendous offer
31:00and this comes not from the Iranians
31:02but the Oman foreign minister, Bedar,
31:05who was the emissary
31:07going between the Americans
31:09and the Iranians in Geneva.
31:13So now since then,
31:14the Trump administration
31:15has tried to come up with multiple explanations.
31:18Why did we do this?
31:19Is it regime change?
31:20Is it fear of missiles
31:22that Iran doesn't have to attack the U.S.?
31:24Is it nuclear weapons?
31:26Well, wait a minute.
31:27Trump said that the capacity to make them
31:29had been obliterated months ago by the U.S.
31:33This is a bunch of amateurs
31:35in the White House in the United States
31:38and they're following the lead of Netanyahu.
31:42Marco Rubio, the U.S. Secretary of State,
31:45said the reason the U.S. attacked when it did
31:47was because Israel was going to attack Iran
31:51and it was anticipated Iran would respond
31:55by attacking American military bases
31:57and maybe other assets.
31:59And wow, Netanyahu is leading Donald Trump around
32:03with a ring in his nose like he's a pet pig.
32:06I mean, this is an astonishing development,
32:09especially for an American president
32:11who says America first.
32:13Apparently no, Israel first, America second.
32:17Professor, while, you know, NATO allies,
32:20Europe, some of them completely against America,
32:24like Spain, like Norway,
32:26Denmark has also taken an anti-America stand
32:28in this war.
32:30And, you know, UK, that has done a U-turn.
32:33But most of the NATO allies are standing by
32:35in somewhat gingerly fashion
32:37where President Trump is concerned.
32:39But back home, you know, the domestic politics,
32:43there are midterm elections coming up.
32:45He did not go to the Congress
32:46before waging this war.
32:48MAGA supporters are angry.
32:49Do you see a sense of isolation building up
32:51where President Trump is concerned?
32:56This may very well make his presidency
33:00ineffective going forward.
33:01The Republican leadership in Congress
33:03is still with Trump, at least in the open.
33:06But it is very significant
33:08that Donald Trump came into office
33:10and immediately began
33:11insulting our friends and allies,
33:14denigrating our closest friends and allies,
33:16especially Canada, Australia,
33:18and the United Kingdom.
33:20Australia is the most lapdog ally
33:21the U.S. has in the world.
33:23And all of them are being driven
33:25towards trade deals with China,
33:27contrary to Trump's promises.
33:30Now, Keir Starmer,
33:32the United Kingdom's prime minister,
33:34issued a lengthy and very legalistic statements
33:37trying to say to Iran,
33:39look, we're just allowing the use of our bases
33:41for defensive measures.
33:42I don't think that's going to carry much weight
33:45with the Ayatollahs.
33:46This is not a legalistic issue to them
33:48in the term Starmer put it.
33:51And NATO's Ruta, the head of NATO,
33:53has said,
33:55we're not going to join in this war in Iran.
33:59And by the way,
34:01let's not forget that
34:02the United States president
34:03had no legal authority to do this.
34:06Only the American Congress
34:07has the power to declare war.
34:09The commander-in-chief,
34:11the president,
34:11only has the authority
34:13to take defensive actions
34:14until Congress grants authority.
34:18Mm-hmm.
34:19Professor Johnston, going ahead,
34:21the last statement of President Trump
34:23said that this is going to be a long war.
34:25You know, he said it will last months
34:27or at least a month.
34:29Now, at the back of that,
34:30there will be economic repercussions.
34:32There are already repercussions
34:34where, you know,
34:35international law is concerned.
34:37How do you see all of that pan out
34:39in terms of domestic politics
34:40for President Trump?
34:44I've never heard of a war
34:45that you can put a timeline on
34:47and say that it's over.
34:49You don't know what you've unleashed here.
34:52And we shouldn't lose sight of the fact
34:54that Iran, which has run,
34:56it's an autocracy,
34:58a theocracy run by Shia Muslims.
35:02There are large Shia minorities
35:04in other countries.
35:06They're clearly very upset
35:08about the killing of the Ayatollah.
35:11Normally in warfare,
35:13you don't kill a head of state.
35:14That's a very unwise thing to do.
35:16It puts a target on you
35:18if you do that.
35:20And so the likelihood
35:22that this will be controlled,
35:23and in four weeks,
35:24it will be all over.
35:27Call me back in four weeks.
35:28I'll be surprised if that's the case.
35:33All right, Professor Johnston.
35:34We'll have you soon enough,
35:35possibly earlier than that.
35:37Thank you for taking the time out
35:38and joining us.
35:39Appreciate it.
35:40I want to bring in my colleague,
35:41Geeta Mohan,
35:42a foreign affairs editor,
35:43joining in with the latest
35:44that has come in, Geeta.
35:46You have President Trump
35:47who's said that Iran wants to speak,
35:49but now it's too late.
35:50Iran, on the other hand,
35:51has said that it is open to talks,
35:53but with dignity.
35:54Where does dignity stand
35:55at a time
35:56where their top leadership
35:58has been taken out
35:59and the kind of attack
36:00that they're under?
36:08I'm sorry, Preeti.
36:09Could you just repeat?
36:12All right, we're going to try
36:13and connect to Geeta Mohan.
36:15We have Geeta.
36:16Okay, Geeta.
36:17Okay.
36:18The latest right now,
36:19coming in from the United States
36:21of America,
36:21President Trump,
36:22where he says,
36:23Iran wanted to talk,
36:25but it's too late.
36:25Iran has come out
36:26and said,
36:27open to talks,
36:28but with dignity.
36:29What and where does dignity now,
36:31what does it really mean
36:33in context of your top leadership
36:35being assassinated
36:36and the kind of attack
36:38that you're under?
36:41Well, it just means
36:43that both sides
36:45are digging in their heels,
36:46Preeti.
36:46At this point in time,
36:48Trump is saying
36:48what he wants
36:51his domestic audience
36:52to hear,
36:53that they have completely
36:54decimated Iran.
36:55And Masood Pazashkian,
36:57on the other hand,
36:58has come out and said
36:59that's absolutely not true
37:00and that we would want
37:03negotiations,
37:04but with dignity.
37:06Certainly not at the stage
37:08with this kind of an attitude
37:11that Trump and Israel
37:14and America are coming with.
37:16So expect intensification
37:19in the coming hours
37:20and we'll have to see
37:22who cracks
37:23because this now is about
37:26intensification of the conflict
37:28between Israel,
37:30America and Iran.
37:32Israel in all probability
37:34now will be given a window
37:36as it always is given
37:38to do all the kind
37:39of damage it can.
37:41And we'll have to see
37:42how Iran retaliates
37:43or Iran carries out
37:45its continued precision strikes
37:48against American
37:50and Western installations,
37:52which now go beyond
37:54just bases.
37:55They're also looking
37:55at refineries.
37:57But all this, again,
37:59has to do with how
38:01and what the economic cost
38:02of it is going to be
38:03on the immediate.
38:04look at the oil prices,
38:07look at the crude
38:08rent prices,
38:09look at supply chains
38:12absolutely disrupted
38:13right now
38:14and flights
38:15completely disrupted.
38:17So the economic cost
38:18of this is going
38:19to be huge
38:20and there is going
38:21to be mounting
38:22international pressure.
38:23We're looking at conversations
38:24that are taking place
38:25between Arab leaders,
38:27India, Arab leaders,
38:29the West, Arab leaders,
38:31Russia, China.
38:32But the most important
38:33piece over here
38:34are now,
38:35pieces over here
38:36are now China and Russia.
38:38The conversation
38:38between Chinese
38:40foreign minister
38:41and his Iranian counterpart,
38:42Araqchi,
38:43is very, very important.
38:46What is China going to do?
38:48Even if not militarily,
38:49the fact that they're
38:50now voicing their concerns
38:51with regards to
38:52what's happening
38:53on the ground
38:54is significant.
38:56All right, Geetha.
38:57Thank you there
38:57for joining us
38:58with that quick update.
38:58Joining me right now
38:59is Miss Natalie Tocci.
39:01She's the former
39:01EU foreign policy advisor,
39:04continues to watch
39:06foreign policy
39:07very, very closely
39:08where Europe is concerned.
39:09And today,
39:10the way we've seen
39:11NATO allies,
39:12a lot of European nations
39:13come out
39:15with their reactions.
39:16How do you read
39:16those developments,
39:17Miss Tocci,
39:19especially the reactions
39:20coming in
39:21from NATO allies
39:22like Spain,
39:23United Kingdom,
39:24Norway and Denmark
39:26and Spain
39:26have taken a stand
39:28against the United States
39:30of America,
39:30the others
39:31gingerly supporting America?
39:34Well, I would say
39:36that the mainstream
39:38European reaction
39:39revolving around
39:41France, Germany,
39:42the UK
39:43has basically
39:46been one of
39:49almost,
39:50I'm not quite sure
39:51how to define it,
39:52almost dystopic.
39:53So if you,
39:56you know,
39:56were an alien
39:57and you landed
39:58in Europe
39:59on Saturday morning
40:01and you read
40:02the declarations
40:02of some of these
40:03leaders,
40:04there is no way
40:05that you could have
40:05actually figured out
40:06that the United States
40:07and Israel
40:08had attacked Iran.
40:09So in a sense,
40:11there was,
40:12yes,
40:12correctly so,
40:13a condemnation
40:14of the Iranian regime
40:15and its treatment
40:16of its people,
40:17a condemnation
40:18of Iranian
40:20counterattacks
40:21on countries
40:22in the Gulf.
40:23But there was
40:23no reference
40:24whatsoever
40:24to what had
40:26actually triggered
40:26all this.
40:27It's as if Iran
40:28had woken up
40:28one morning
40:29and decided
40:30to kind of
40:31send missiles
40:32left,
40:32right and centre.
40:33So that,
40:34I would say,
40:34was the core
40:35of the European
40:36reaction.
40:38Then, indeed,
40:39as you were
40:39suggesting,
40:40there have been
40:41some outliers
40:42and Spain
40:43on the one hand
40:44as well as Norway
40:46and Denmark
40:47would probably
40:48be the three
40:49that have been
40:49most outspoken.
40:51in terms of
40:52actually calling
40:53a spade a spade
40:54when it comes
40:55to this war.
40:57But, obviously,
40:58this is not,
40:59in a sense,
40:59where the core
41:00of Europe lies.
41:02And then there
41:03have been
41:03other countries
41:04still that have
41:05been even more
41:06explicit in their
41:08backing of the
41:10US and Israeli
41:12attacks,
41:13countries like my
41:14own,
41:14Italy, for example.
41:16So, on one level,
41:17I would say,
41:18well, you know,
41:19you always tend
41:20to have different
41:21European reactions
41:22to whatever
41:23happens in the
41:23world.
41:24But I would say,
41:25broadly speaking,
41:26and from a very
41:27personal standpoint,
41:28very unfortunately,
41:30this has been
41:31a reaction
41:32which has
41:33actually
41:34sided
41:35really
41:35implicitly
41:36or explicitly
41:37rather
41:38sort of
41:39significantly
41:40with a
41:41major violation
41:42of international
41:43law.
41:45The sheer fact,
41:47Ms. Tochi,
41:47that there was
41:48apprehensions,
41:50a lot of unease,
41:51especially during
41:51the trade talk
41:54and the trade wars
41:55which went on
41:56where EU and
41:57European nations
41:58were concerned.
41:59And now this.
42:00Do you see
42:01it makes certain
42:02countries very
42:03uncomfortable
42:03and possibly look
42:04at a new
42:05kind of order?
42:07Or do you see
42:09most of them
42:10backing the United
42:11States of America?
42:12Yes.
42:14Well,
42:15no.
42:16So let me put it
42:17in these terms.
42:18I think
42:19the reason why
42:21there is an
42:21instinct to
42:22back the US
42:23on this front
42:25is probably
42:26twofold.
42:27And it has
42:27obviously very
42:29little, if
42:29nothing at all,
42:30to do with
42:31international law
42:32because, as I
42:32said, we're
42:33talking about
42:34a completely
42:35illegal military
42:36attack on
42:37a sovereign
42:38country.
42:40That did not
42:41at that point
42:41in time pose
42:42an imminent
42:43threat.
42:43I think this
42:44needs to
42:44be highlighted.
42:45So why
42:46is it that
42:47Europeans
42:48have tilted,
42:49as I said,
42:50you know,
42:50with all the
42:51due differences,
42:53but have tilted
42:54towards the US?
42:55I would say
42:56two sets of
42:57reasons.
42:58One is
42:59that they,
43:01Europeans
43:01increasingly,
43:02or a core
43:03of European
43:03countries increasingly,
43:04looks at the
43:05world through
43:06the lens of
43:07the Ukraine
43:08war.
43:08and, of course,
43:09as we know,
43:11Russia and
43:12Iran have
43:13had increasingly
43:14strong,
43:16especially
43:16military,
43:17relations.
43:18And so
43:18Iran, from
43:19being viewed
43:20as, quote,
43:21unquote,
43:22only a question
43:24related to
43:25regional security
43:26as opposed to
43:27non-proliferation,
43:28as opposed to
43:29even human rights,
43:30became viewed
43:31through the lens
43:32of Ukraine,
43:33and that
43:34in and of
43:35itself tilted
43:36the European
43:37view on Iran
43:39in a very
43:39negative way.
43:40On top of
43:41this, there is
43:42indeed that
43:43transatlantic
43:44connection in
43:44which, as we
43:46know, the
43:46United States
43:47under Donald
43:48Trump has
43:48also sided
43:49very much
43:50with Russia
43:51on the war
43:51in Ukraine
43:52and has
43:53threatened
43:54countries like
43:55Denmark with
43:56the annexation
43:56of Greenland.
43:57And so, in a
43:59sense, here we
44:00are, Europeans,
44:01how can I put
44:02it, trying to
44:03keep the
44:03U.S. on
44:04side by
44:05not confronting
44:07the U.S. on
44:08something like
44:09Iran, where
44:10deep down,
44:10because of
44:11what I just
44:11said about
44:12the Iran-Russia
44:13connection,
44:13they, in any
44:14case, are
44:15against the
44:16Iranian regime
44:17at all.
44:18So, if you
44:18like, that
44:20core European
44:21position has,
44:22I think, in
44:22many respects,
44:23been rather
44:23cynical, I
44:26would say,
44:27certainly not
44:28very values
44:29driven at
44:30all, and I
44:31think probably
44:32the most
44:32evident
44:33articulation
44:34of this
44:35has been
44:36when German
44:36Chancellor
44:37Friedrich
44:38Merz really
44:39rather explicitly
44:40said, you
44:41know, international
44:41law is not
44:42actually the
44:43most useful
44:44frame to
44:45understand this
44:46conflict.
44:47Well, if not
44:48international law,
44:49then may I
44:49ask, then
44:50what?
44:52All right, but
44:53Ms. Sochi, do
44:53you see the
44:54stance change of
44:55many countries,
44:56because there
44:57are and there
44:57are going to be
44:58economic
44:59implications, and
45:00things will only
45:01get worse?
45:05Yeah, I think
45:06that may well be
45:07the case, although
45:08it probably, I
45:09mean, I think
45:10as the
45:10consequences of
45:11the war
45:13worsen, you
45:14may paradoxically
45:16first see an
45:17even stronger
45:18support for the
45:20U.S. and
45:21Israel, and only
45:22later that may
45:24turn into
45:25something quite
45:25different.
45:26of course, the
45:27parallel that I
45:28have in mind
45:29here is the
45:302003 war in
45:32Iraq.
45:33You know, there
45:33are many
45:34critics of that
45:35war that are
45:36critics today, but
45:37actually back then
45:38were not critics
45:38at all in
45:40Europe.
45:40So I think, you
45:41know, as the
45:42consequences
45:43worsen, and as
45:44it becomes over
45:46time increasingly
45:47obvious that this
45:48war of choice was
45:49a terribly bad
45:50idea, then you
45:51may see European
45:52reactions changing,
45:54but in a sense
45:55it will be at a
45:56time in which
45:57it's too late.
45:57Okay.
45:58All right.
45:59Appreciate you
46:00joining us, Mr.
46:00Toshi.
46:01Thank you there.
46:01We're going to
46:01leave it at that.
46:03All eyes on all
46:03developments that
46:05are taking place
46:06at the back of
46:07the crisis that
46:08continues to
46:09unfold in West
46:10Asia.
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