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00:00The recent law in Afghanistan where now men can even beat up their wives as long as the bones are
00:06not broken or the wounds are not visible and they cannot do anything, they are legally allowed to do that
00:10now.
00:11I don't think this can be called as life. Her internal muscles have been systematically weakened. They are just too
00:18deeply conditioned and they have stakes in the existing oppressive patriarchy.
00:24You are expecting mercy and sympathy from your traditional oppressor. Even our deepest empathies will be a bit like lip
00:35service.
00:36So that makes me very curious many times. Why would a woman not want to do what is required to
00:42let's say.
00:42The status of women in a society or country is very directly proportional to all indices of overall welfare in
00:52that country.
00:52We are demanding change on the side of the aggressor, the exploiter. The change has to come somewhere else.
01:05So I was going through your article that got published today in the Pioneer. It's titled New Regime's Ancient Hunger
01:13Women as First Casualty.
01:15Women as First Casualty. Yes.
01:18So apart from talking in depth about women in conservative societies in general, the main issue that has come to
01:27note in the news is the recent law in Afghanistan where now men can even beat up their wives as
01:36long as the bones are not broken or the wounds are not visible and they cannot do anything. They are
01:41legally allowed to do that now.
01:42So I just want to ask you, what do you make of this? What should we make of this?
01:51The women have to make sense of this. The women have to decide what it means for them.
02:04They are the ones who have to take control of their lives.
02:11What can it mean to me or to you?
02:15We are men sitting far away from their places, their borders, their cultures, their contexts.
02:27Whatever we say will fall short of resonating with their lived experience.
02:43So even our deepest empathies will be a bit like lip service.
02:51It's the women who will have to come forward.
02:56And the whole thing is so absurd besides being cruel, inhuman and the rest of that.
03:13The defining characteristic of this new legislation is in its absurdity.
03:22You are treating one half of human population almost as inanimate property.
03:32You are saying you beat them up, provided you don't break any bones.
03:37Beat them up, provided the wounds are not openly visible.
03:43And they are anyway wheeled from top to bottom, so nothing is going to be visible.
03:48When fractures may not be visible.
03:55So practically it's an open invitation to all kinds of domestic assault.
04:12Words fall short if one wants to comment on it.
04:20You mentioned absurd, another absurd thing here is that
04:24firstly women have to appear fully clothed in the court.
04:28And they have to be accompanied with a male guardian.
04:32With the guardian who probably has a high probability of being the perpetrator in the first place.
04:39Or an accomplice of the perpetrator.
04:41Or an accomplice of the perpetrator.
04:42Or having stakes in the perpetration of, if not that event, then that system.
04:49So yes, so practically this shuts the doors on any legal remedy.
04:57Yes, from all aspects.
05:01My core concern here was knowing the history of Afghanistan.
05:05There was Taliban and then regime change and then Taliban came back again.
05:10So in the new government, new Taliban government, there was some hope that maybe
05:14the women's rights record will be better.
05:18But as soon as they came, first thing that they do, nothing about youth employment, nothing about the food insecurity.
05:27First thing that Taliban do is ban women from school.
05:31Ban women from working.
05:33But that was expected, wasn't it?
05:35That's what they also did in the first Taliban regime, 96 to 2001.
05:43And that's the reason the world didn't quite like it.
05:51When the Western forces, the US forces, just handed over Afghanistan to Taliban, 2021.
06:02We knew this was going to happen.
06:05There was ample evidence beforehand.
06:09Just that between 2001 and 2021, there was actual, visible, substantial improvement in the lot of women.
06:20And all that has come to a knot.
06:24Yes.
06:24And in fact, it's not just back to square one, it's actually back to the primitive cave.
06:38That is what is very absurd here.
06:41Because one would think that in the interim, when there was some...
06:46Supering effect.
06:47Supering effect would have been there.
06:49Times have changed.
06:50We have internet today.
06:51And there would be a certain progressive tint may be now visible in the attitude of Taliban.
06:57No, that's not going to happen.
07:00That's not going to happen because we are demanding change on the side of the aggressor, the exploiter, the perpetrator.
07:15The change has to come somewhere else.
07:20The victim will have to stand up at whatever cost.
07:23You see, I understand the cost.
07:25I am not being impractical here.
07:28I understand the cost of standing up.
07:31But then I also understand the cost of not standing up.
07:37And comparing the two costs, I find standing up is more advisable.
07:49In fact, existentially necessary.
07:54You don't stand up, you bear a higher cost, pay a higher price.
08:04That's the more surprising part here.
08:07Because taking a parallel of this to Iran, something similar happened.
08:13There was a revolution.
08:16And women actually participated in large numbers in that revolution.
08:20To overthrow the Shah.
08:23And again, a conservative government came in.
08:25First thing that they did is take away the rights of the same women who participated in it.
08:29But still in Iran, there was some resistance from the women.
08:34Probably because of education or more prosperity.
08:37So, there was something there.
08:39But here in Afghanistan…
08:42And that's why you see, in Iran, probably change is more likely to come.
08:51And probably it's already coming.
08:52Yes.
08:54In Iran, we see three swings.
08:58There is the Shah, Shah period when he banned the wheel and such things.
09:04And women were found in abundance in universities, in public places, in government offices, in all walks of life.
09:14Then there was this 79 to 2025 period.
09:21And now, there is this turbulent phase Iran is passing through, both internally and geopolitically.
09:33And women there are more likely to succeed because they are participating.
09:40They are leading.
09:41In fact, they participated even in 1979.
09:47Yes.
09:48They are participating, even today, the woman life freedom movement.
09:55In fact, it all started with a particular woman protesting and then…
10:05Mahasameen.
10:06Yeah.
10:07Mahasameen.
10:07And then paying the biggest price.
10:11So, Afghanistan has actually seen more swings than Iran.
10:19So, there was the more progressive and liberal period.
10:25Yes.
10:26Some iconic photos where women in universities wearing skirts.
10:30Women in universities wearing skirts.
10:34And then came the first Taliban period, which was a shorter one.
10:39Yes.
10:40And then came the recovery.
10:41And now you again have this.
10:43It feels women are being tossed around.
10:48In Iran, women seem to be asserting their agency, their being, their humanness to a greater degree.
10:59With a greater self-respect.
11:07With a greater feeling of internal sovereignty.
11:15With a greater felt need of living with dignity.
11:24And that's probably the only way it can happen for women anywhere on the planet.
11:31If they are to realize their potential as free human beings, they will have to come forward.
11:45You see, when you, please understand the psychological basis.
11:49When you make a law about someone, you are treating that someone as property, as insentient, as not having any
12:03agency of its own.
12:05I can legislate about this.
12:07I can impose my will on this.
12:11Now, how to demonstrate that the very assumption behind the legislation is flawed?
12:18How to demonstrate?
12:19You see, I decide I have to keep it here.
12:22And I can keep it here.
12:23It has no self.
12:27It cannot protest.
12:29I may decide to put it this way, and it will settle the way I want it to.
12:36I can decide to put it on my face, my eyes, and it will be okay.
12:42Or I can decide to simply break the lenses and it's not going to protest.
12:50And that will be just fair.
12:52I can't be held accountable because this indeed is property.
12:57Now, how can it demonstrate that my will cannot be justifiably imposed upon him or this or her?
13:07How does this demonstrate that?
13:10That can be done only by demonstrating that it actually has a being, an internal sovereignty.
13:22That is the only way.
13:23Which means it will have to rebel.
13:27Right.
13:28It will have to say, I am my own person.
13:32I am my own being.
13:37I have consciousness.
13:39Right.
13:40Right?
13:40Right.
13:41So, that's the only way you treat somebody as sentient.
13:45Right.
13:45When do you say somebody is conscious or sentient or living?
13:50When do you say that?
13:50You say that when they have what at least appears like free will.
13:56Free will.
13:56It might be conditioned.
13:58That's fine.
13:59That's a deeper philosophical thing that what appears like free will is mostly conditioned.
14:04That's fine.
14:04But at least some even superficial appearance of free will must be there.
14:14And how do you know free will exists?
14:16Somebody has to assert it.
14:18Somebody has to live by it.
14:20Somebody has to defend it.
14:23Right?
14:25Otherwise, if there is no demonstration or assertion of free will, then I might as well
14:32say I am justified in imposing my will and my laws upon this thing.
14:38Right.
14:38This now gets reduced to a thing.
14:41Thing.
14:41Thing.
14:42And that's the fundamental characteristic of a thing.
14:45It won't resist or rebel.
14:47Right.
14:47If you cannot resist, cannot rebel, you are a thing.
14:50You will be played with.
14:51And you will be played with and that would be justified.
14:53Right.
14:54You cannot even find faults with the player.
14:57Right.
14:57Who happens to be the exploiter or the dominator or whatever, the bully.
15:03Right?
15:05The moment that this starts displaying an internal freedom, an internal independence, that's the
15:16moment the aggressor too will have to reconsider his stance.
15:29But what if this is so pliant, so submissive, so obedient, that it continues to chug along
15:38and play on.
15:43Women in Iran are protesting.
15:45So, they will get what they want.
15:47Yes.
15:48At least to some extent.
15:52And maybe the emancipation will be broader and deeper in the future.
15:58Right.
16:01But this thing, nobody can grant it freedom from above or outside.
16:08Right.
16:08In fact, if freedom is given to you from above, that works in exactly the opposite way.
16:17If I am granting this thing freedom from above, then what I am actually supporting is the
16:26fact that this has no internal freedom.
16:29And I can also take it away anytime.
16:31I am giving it from above or from outside or from somewhere in the system, in the environment.
16:35If I am supplying freedom to this one, I can also withdraw freedom at any moment.
16:41Dependence in the name of freedom.
16:42Yes, that would be.
16:43Dependence in the name of freedom.
16:45So, real freedom has to originate from within.
16:50Right.
16:51Otherwise, the Americans can be there, the liberal world can be there or legal protection can be
16:57there.
16:57But it would all be like crutches.
17:01I fully agree that legal protection is needed.
17:05Yes, we need a safe environment.
17:09We need equality.
17:12We need women to feel dignified, protected.
17:23But in spite of saying all this, I know very well that none of that, though important, though
17:31necessary, can substitute a burning heart.
17:37Right.
17:39So, slavery is imposed on this, first of all, because this one can have no agency.
17:50And a lot of people choose to have no agency for reasons of fear or security or tradition or whatever.
18:04Do you get this?
18:07You see, please understand.
18:11I have no reasons to accord respect or dignity befitting a sentient being to anything if that
18:25thing does not visibly demonstrate its freeness.
18:34Why should I feel guilty of picking this up from here and keeping it here?
18:38Please tell me.
18:41I picked this up from here and kept it here as per my wish.
18:47Right.
18:48Or I can smash it.
18:49Just throw it.
18:50Or I can empty it of its content.
18:51Or I can put something else into it.
18:53Or I can paint it with any color.
18:55Or I can wheel it.
18:57I can melt it.
18:58Whatever I want to do.
18:59Right?
19:00Or I can trade it.
19:02I can do anything.
19:03And should I feel guilty?
19:05Or should I be held legally, morally accountable for that?
19:08No, nothing.
19:09Why?
19:10Does the fault lie with me?
19:14If I am putting it from here to here, does the principle fault lie with me?
19:19You cannot find fault with me.
19:22In fact, no court can convict me for doing this.
19:29Why?
19:30Because this anyway has no freedom, no responsibility, no self, no consciousness, no agency.
19:39Right.
19:40And this can be forgiven for having none of that.
19:44Because it cannot have any of that.
19:47But when a human being, when a human being refuses to love freedom, refuses to be consciously
20:01responsible for his life, and refuses to pay the price, then it's difficult to just ignore.
20:19I know I am demanding too much.
20:22I know it would be easy to say that the women are already suffering, already oppressed.
20:28And now you are saying that the responsibility lies with women?
20:32Yes, I am saying that the responsibility lies with them.
20:36I am not finding fault.
20:40I am trying to remind a human being of her responsibility towards herself.
20:47See, what else can we do?
20:49Please tell me.
20:50Beg, petition, kneel, crawl, what to do?
20:56You want to go to the indoctrinated zealots, you want to go to the menfolk and beg for some
21:10teeny-weeny rights, you know how deeply culturally conditioned they are.
21:19Right?
21:22You know their partisan position.
21:28If you do not become responsible and accountable for your life, who else would?
21:37For sure, the men would not.
21:41The men are not going to step forward and say, we will do it for you.
21:45And why should they do it for you?
21:48They are not responsible even for their own life.
21:51Look at how they are living.
21:55Look at their fanaticism.
22:00Look at the kind of distorted interpretations of religion that they carry.
22:13Such people, you want to have expectations from them.
22:18You want to go to men with the expectation that they will be benign and kind and noble and benevolent
22:26and loving and they will grant you an equal status.
22:29They will not do that.
22:33They will not do that.
22:35They are just too deeply conditioned.
22:37And they have stakes in the existing oppressive patriarchy.
22:46So, what option are you left with them?
22:50Please tell me, what is the option?
22:52The option is to take matters in your own hands.
22:54Yes.
22:55And I know that's going to be a costly affair.
22:59I know.
23:00I know there would be blood.
23:02I know heads would roll.
23:04But please tell me, how else to get out of this hole?
23:10How else to challenge these bondages and break out of this jail?
23:19Somebody will have to scale the walls.
23:22Definitely.
23:23And somebody will have to smuggle in a few dynamite rods.
23:30Blasks are needed.
23:33Right?
23:34And there would be casualties.
23:41There is going to be all kinds of collateral damage.
23:47But that has to be taken as creative destruction.
23:50No, this is not an incitement to violence.
23:52No, no, no.
23:55I would love if the whole thing can happen very, very peacefully.
24:04And that's the ideal way it should happen.
24:07Maybe that's the first way to try out.
24:11Yes.
24:13But even lawful, legal, noble entities do find that a point comes when they have to go to war.
24:24There is absolutely an option left.
24:26So many, so many wars have been waged through proper UNSC legal resolutions.
24:38All the important and responsible members of the world community came to the table and decided in consensus that we
24:49need a war.
24:50And that has happened.
24:51Right.
24:51And sometimes that has been useful as well.
24:54Not always though.
24:56But the United Nations is not going to say that wars is the first recourse.
25:01They will try out many other means.
25:03They will negotiate.
25:04They will want to have a deal of some kind.
25:06Give and take this, that.
25:07But when nothing works, what else to do?
25:09Then it has to be a demonstration of resolve.
25:12It has to be a showdown.
25:14But what to do?
25:16What to do?
25:17I mean, India is such a peaceful state.
25:19Yes, we are.
25:20We are.
25:21But don't we have the police?
25:23Yes.
25:24The paramilitary, the army, don't we all have that?
25:27Because a point comes when all that is needed.
25:31I'm getting it.
25:32You are expecting mercy and sympathy from your traditional oppressor.
25:44That's utopian.
25:45That's wishful thinking.
25:47That's thinking against yourself.
25:53They will never do it.
25:53Because it's not just ignorance.
25:55They willfully stop children from going to school.
26:00But the list is horrible.
26:02What has been done?
26:04The number of women who are dying unattended.
26:07Because there are no doctors.
26:09No doctors.
26:10And male doctors aren't allowed to and supposed to attend to female patients.
26:16Especially when it comes to gynae cases.
26:20No school, no hospitals, no public places, nothing at all.
26:25I don't think this can be called as life.
26:28Better than this life is a revolution.
26:35And women in Afghanistan can learn from their neighbours in Iran.
26:46Good show.
26:48Good show in Iran.
26:49There have been examples of the case of a media called Malala, where she was shot by Taliban
26:56in the head.
26:57Oh, you mean Malala Yusuf?
26:58Yes.
26:59Yes.
26:59The Nobel laureate.
27:00Yes.
27:01Yes.
27:02I mean, not going into other things, politics, whatever, but at least on the face of…
27:06Wasn't she a Pakistani?
27:07She was from the tribal area.
27:10From the tribal area.
27:11But very nearby.
27:12Yeah.
27:13It is something that can be an example.
27:15Yes.
27:15That's what happened.
27:16The Taliban was trying to stop her going to school and at the cost of that shit.
27:20Yes.
27:20Yes.
27:20So it can be done if…
27:22See, what I am saying is not diplomatically nice.
27:27Definitely not.
27:30But I bet to be educated.
27:34Is there an option?
27:36Is there an option?
27:40There is this country and one half of the human population of that country is bringing
27:50the worst kind of oppression on the other half.
27:57What's the remedy?
27:59And all this is being held.
28:02All this is being done in the name of religion, culture and tradition and this and that.
28:11So, the oppressing half is not going to relent.
28:17Right?
28:18So, I don't see any other way.
28:23In fact, when women take things in their own hands, they come out on the streets, that's
28:34when probably for the first time they are reminding the menfolk that they have agency.
28:43Otherwise, the men will say we are justified in putting this from here to here or wheeling
28:47it or doing anything with it.
28:49Anything can be done with it.
28:52It's resistance that serves as a visible proof of your existence.
29:02Otherwise, you are a thing.
29:03You are a thing.
29:06You are a thing.
29:08It doesn't happen till now though.
29:11It will need to happen and it better happens quickly because human beings have an unfortunate
29:20capacity to be conditioned.
29:24What we see all around us and perpetually starts feeling like the truth.
29:34So, if a girl is born in this environment, in such circumstances, she may actually start feeling
29:43that all this is the truth that need not be challenged.
29:49So, resistance better come early.
29:57Quite interesting that…
29:59That's what I centrally found interesting even after reading an article that women are
30:06not peripheral, they are central in political legitimacy in these systems.
30:13They have to come in the daily discourse as if there is some unique entity there that
30:20have to be managed rather than just human beings.
30:25If we look at the West, we don't hear too much about women's rights or anything, at least
30:31in this day and age.
30:34It doesn't have to be something special there.
30:36The challenges there have moved on.
30:38In the West, the frontiers have advanced.
30:46In more rigid and oppressive and illiberal societies, still the old medieval battles are being fought.
31:02And whenever you will do something that goes against the very system of nature,
31:13it will remain as a thing, as a load, as a burden in your mind.
31:19And that's why men in regressive societies will find that they will remain obsessed with women.
31:31In spite of putting them in houses, in small rooms with blackened windows and putting them out of all public
31:45visibility, the wheel and this and that.
31:51They will still find that they cannot put the woman out of their mind.
31:55You have put her out of all places possible.
31:59But the more you unnaturally put her out of all places, the more you will find she is occupying this
32:07place.
32:08In the article you mentioned, a woman's body is the ego's oldest possession.
32:14Oldest possession.
32:15Own her, own her.
32:18There are physiological reasons.
32:21There are social reasons.
32:24But then what is intelligence about?
32:27Why do we call ourselves a sapient species?
32:32Why can't we see how the inner architecture stands and how the primitive system operates?
32:40We should have liberated ourselves of these gender stereotypes long back.
32:47And many societies have already done that.
32:51It's not just about a liberal philosophy.
32:55It's about basic wisdom.
32:59You can even access it more cleanly, more directly through the spiritual route.
33:12Are you the body or are you the conscious entity?
33:15Are you the body conditioned by evolution like that of a dog, cat, buffalo, lion, donkey, pig, whatever?
33:29Are you that, an animal who cannot look at the female as anything beyond her body?
33:40Or are you a human being whose first identity is not the body but consciousness?
33:47And if consciousness is the first identity, why are you treating the woman as so very different
33:55from you?
33:58Yes, physiologically there are differences.
34:03Prakrata in nature created those differences for the sake of reproduction.
34:09That's fine.
34:10But otherwise, there is the same consciousness, there is the same angst, that same crying need
34:20for inner liberation.
34:23Men and women are centrally very alike.
34:29Peripherally, yes, different, the differences are limited.
34:34The similarities are profound.
34:37That has to be acknowledged.
34:42But men don't want to do that.
34:45And ironically, that goes against even the men.
34:53Places where women are banished are places where even men cannot be blissful.
35:04countries where women do not participate in the workforce are countries that do not progress
35:10or advance.
35:17Even families where women are caged are not families where you have a healthy environment.
35:28That's not going to happen.
35:31So, it's not about doing a favour to the woman.
35:35The man would do himself a favour by acknowledging the woman for what she really is.
35:44Consciousness.
35:47Because, like you mentioned about women rights directly being proportional to the overall
35:54well-being of a place.
35:56Yes, yes.
35:57There is a very strong correlation.
36:00The status of women in a society or country is very directly proportional to all indices
36:08of overall welfare in that country.
36:14I had some data here.
36:16You mentioned it in the article as well.
36:19There is an example of Kerala, which has a total fertility rate is low.
36:26Women are among the most educated.
36:27Yes, yes.
36:28And as a result, its overall indices are also much better than let's say a state like Bihar,
36:33which has a fertility rate of the population.
36:34Yes, yes, yes.
36:36The best way of advancing a society, educate the women, leave them free to take their own
36:49decisions and realize that this is not a favour you are granting.
36:59This is their existential right and if you deprive them of this right, then it is not just the
37:07women who suffer.
37:08The men suffer in equal measure.
37:11In fact, men, women, kids, culture, society, nation, world, environment, everybody and everything
37:22suffers.
37:26It is a beautiful and also insightful thing to know for both sides.
37:30Both sides.
37:31Because I think if the men understand that it is eventually for their own benefit.
37:35Yes, yes.
37:36But I would still say, if you are oppressed, the primary responsibility of challenging your
37:50condition is yours.
37:55Yes, if the men realize and offers genuine support, they are welcome, thank them, accept the help,
38:09coordinate with them.
38:10Wonderful.
38:12Wonderful.
38:12But don't wait for the men to initiate the process.
38:19In fact, the victim should be the initiator of the process of freedom, liberation, emancipation.
38:29And once that initiation happens, then men, especially the well-meaning ones, they will come on our side.
38:41They get sufficient reason to come in, chip in, contribute, help, if needed, even share the leadership.
38:53Then they can do that.
39:03And when you are victimized, the unfortunate inner tragedy is, you internalize the identity of
39:22a victim.
39:24And once that identity is internalized, you settle in it.
39:30You settle in it.
39:33Men look at you as a body.
39:38And you settle in that identity, you start saying I am the body.
39:43Right?
39:44And once you start identifying with the body, you even start trading in it.
39:52And that's the worst contempt you can inflict on yourself as a woman.
39:59Not just the trade.
40:01Not just the trade.
40:04But the fact that you accepted an identity imposed on you by somebody else.
40:15That's where self-knowledge comes in.
40:17That's where self-knowledge comes in.
40:19You must know who you are.
40:20You cannot look at yourself through the eyes of others.
40:26That's disrespect to your own eyes.
40:28Right.
40:30And once you start internalizing the bodily identity that the society has trained you to do, that
40:45becomes a norm.
40:46And then you give the society, the men especially, more reasons to argue that women are anyway not too conscious
41:00and their primary affair is the body.
41:04You look at how vicious the cycle is and how self-perpetrating.
41:11So, men look at women as the body.
41:15The woman internalizes that identity and starts acting from that identity.
41:22She starts weaponizing her body.
41:26What else can she do?
41:28That's the deal she has been served.
41:32Though I want to retract this and say there is more that she can do.
41:37You are never so helpless that you can't walk out of even the most lucrative deal.
41:54Pay the highest price, learn to walk out.
41:59But that requires a deep commitment towards your own dignity.
42:04Most human beings won't have that.
42:07So, you take in that identity and you start behaving accordingly.
42:15And then the world gets reason to say, oh, but that's how women are.
42:19No, that's not how they are.
42:22That's how they have been conditioned.
42:27That's what you have turned them into.
42:31That's not how they were born.
42:35That's what you did to them.
42:36And now, you present their deteriorated state as an alibi to keep them chained or confined
42:58or as second-rate citizens.
43:00So, all this is quite dishonest.
43:07This is the real tragic part of it and no one seems to be talking about this.
43:12Everyone is saying Taliban, this, that.
43:14Yes, yes, yes.
43:15One of the biggest supporters of patriarchy are the women themselves.
43:20That's why the onus of breaking out lies on them.
43:27Outsiders must help.
43:30But the real action will have to come from the insider.
43:39That's why I'd like to ask you also on a slightly more personal note.
43:45You are someone who has been at the forefront of women empowerment and there are so many
43:51testimonials and we know that millions of women have come out from a lot of oppressive
43:56situations listening to you.
43:59But there is still some resistance from some side.
44:03So, that makes me very curious.
44:06Many times what exactly, why would a woman not want to do what is required to get free?
44:16Because she has been given certain privileges in the patriarchal system.
44:23Right?
44:26And she has been rendered helpless beyond those privileges.
44:34Her internal muscles have been systematically weakened.
44:42Right?
44:44The tactic is twofold.
44:51Give her something she can live with and live by, happily, almost happily, give her something.
45:00So, there are certain rights and privileges and places and status she receives as being
45:10part of the patriarchal system.
45:13The deal does offer her something.
45:16She receives all that.
45:18And she cannot walk out of the deal because the muscles that are needed to walk out have
45:25been weakened.
45:27So, she feels that the deal is the best thing possible.
45:37Now, if someone comes and tells her to quit, she takes that someone as enemy.
45:46Consider her situation.
45:48This is the deal she has been living with since long.
45:52Right?
45:55Her capacity to rise on her own and do something else has been rendered ineffective in all ways
46:08possible through organized religion, through traditional propaganda, through economic and even legal structures, a lot of things.
46:24So, she says, when I am getting all this relatively easily, in a secured way, just as my mother did,
46:33just as my grandmother did.
46:34Why should I rather take the risky route of rejecting this, getting up, walking out, rebelling, inviting trouble?
46:44Why should I get into that?
46:47And that's the reason people like me get a lot of hate from women themselves.
47:00Yeah, that's overwhelmingly what we hear from women who have actually been taken out of operative systems.
47:07That's one side.
47:09The other side there is hate.
47:10Somebody who has nothing to lose is in an advantageous, I would even say privileged position.
47:21Yes.
47:22Because this person now has no option but to break away.
47:29Break away.
47:29Yes.
47:29Rebel.
47:30Leave the table.
47:31No.
47:31The deal anyway has nothing for you.
47:36But the shrewd thing about the traditional system is that it does give something to the woman.
47:46What the woman does not realize is that what it takes away is of a far greater magnitude.
47:56It does give you something.
47:58Yes, there is something being offered, mostly psychologically.
48:02Safety, security, respectability, such things.
48:08A veneer of care and concern as well.
48:11All that is there.
48:14But what she is losing out in the process is of much greater value.
48:22She does not realize the nature of the deal.
48:24That's where the problem is.
48:26Therefore, she buys in and signs up.
48:33And that's what is happening with women in Kabul as well.
48:38That's why the rebellion is unlikely to come.
48:43Women, to some extent at least, have bought into the system.
48:53We cannot lay the blame entirely on male bigotry.
49:01There are dimensions beyond that.
49:04And that's why the woman will have to herself rise.
49:14The article ends with, others will free you only to the edge of their own understanding.
49:20Beyond that edge, you must see for yourself.
49:23I think I have written it well.
49:26Others will contribute only to the extent possible from their own center.
49:37But your life is your life.
49:41So, you will have to be in charge.
49:44Don't wait for others.
49:46Don't wait for others.
49:50In fact, it is those others who have taught you to wait for others.
49:54That too is a ploy.
49:59Alright, I would rather have the audience go through the entire article.
50:06You will hear it too much.
50:08Yeah.
50:13Thank you very much.
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