00:00I do want to start with the policy implications. We should point out, of course, that Trump used these tariffs
00:05as ostensibly a policy tool to negotiate, in his view, better trade deals.
00:10And I am curious, at least for right now, those trade deals are still in place and not affected by
00:14this.
00:15But do you think we will see more of a policy shift potentially by this administration or does it stay
00:20the same?
00:22Good afternoon. It's a big day. Thank you for having me.
00:25It's hard to say. I mean, certainly listening to the president this afternoon, it doesn't seem like he is going
00:32to change his approach.
00:34I would say, having been Commerce Secretary, tariffs aren't always bad, right?
00:40There are many cases in which other countries have taken advantage of us, have hurt manufacturing or hurt farmers in
00:47the U.S. because of an unlevel playing field.
00:49And that's why we have tariffs. An appropriate use of targeted tariffs for strategic reasons is a good thing.
00:57Of course, in this case, that's not what the president did.
01:00As the Supreme Court said, he didn't have the authority to use the blunt broad-based tariffs.
01:06But, you know, it is important to remember not all tariffs are bad.
01:11Yeah. Well, I am curious about that. When we go back to the Liberation Day tariffs, we were talking about
01:16levies ranging from about 10 to 50 percent.
01:19But these were also sort of targeted at specific countries and the idea it was supposed to bring them to
01:25the negotiating table.
01:26We've seen some of those deals struck. You've had a chance to look at some of the data that's occurred
01:30so far.
01:31Have any of those actually, in your view, maybe actually been beneficial and effective in their intended purpose?
01:39Again, I think certain tariffs, for example, in the case of China, which is really the key economy we need
01:48to focus on,
01:49there's no question that there could be an appropriate use of tariffs vis-a-vis China.
01:55We know the government subsidizes and dumps products in the global market, distorts the prices.
01:59But I think the really important message of today is that the system of checks and balances in this country
02:06worked.
02:07And if anything, I think it makes America stronger.
02:12If anything, it gives us even more leverage in the world because it shows the world, it shows global businesses.
02:18Our judiciary is independent. It enforces the laws.
02:22And, you know, you asked me in the beginning, what will Trump do?
02:26He seems to still want to go ahead with tariffs, but now he's going to have to do it in
02:31accordance with the law,
02:32which shows the world and our allies, our systems are working, the judiciary is working,
02:38and we're a stronger country because of that.
02:40Well, when it comes to China, you think about the stance of some of the other nations in the world.
02:45Mexico, for example, has already raised tariffs on China.
02:49A French government advisory panel just this month proposed tariffs on China, hikes coming from the EU.
02:55Do you see any room here for a coordinated move by the West against China when it comes to some
03:02of the overcapacity here?
03:03And do you think that that's something that you would advocate for?
03:06It is certainly true that in order for the United States to effectively compete with China and their distorted trade
03:18practices,
03:19we're strongest when we work with our allies.
03:22I was in Munich last weekend at the security conference talking to a lot of Europeans.
03:26You know, when China subsidizes a particular product and then dumps that product into the global market,
03:35it doesn't just hurt America.
03:36It doesn't just hurt American workers, consumers, and farmers.
03:39It also can hurt Europeans and Mexicans and Canadians.
03:43And so it's definitely the case that we would be stronger working with our allies to combat the unfair,
03:53in many cases unlawful practices of the Chinese government.
03:57And, Gina, I also want to ask about what we're seeing on the domestic front when it comes to some
04:02of these multitude of companies
04:04that have filed suits against the government, basically trying to secure a refund for these tariffs.
04:10As of December, rather, you are a board member of Costco.
04:15And I'm curious, you know, when you think about the process ahead of us, what is the kind of timeline
04:20that you're thinking about?
04:22Certainly we saw from Justice Brett Kavanaugh today saying that this is going to be a very messy process.
04:28Is that your expectation as well?
04:31It is.
04:32Look, it's hard to know.
04:33This came down a few hours ago, but one of my concerns about the whole way that the president has
04:41gone about these tariffs,
04:42apart from the fact that he overreached his presidential authority, is it's just created so much uncertainty.
04:52You know, and today we have more uncertainty.
04:54You know, will there be refunds?
04:56How will that work?
04:58When will that happen?
04:59And, you know, will the 122 tariffs that he put in place today, it just creates a lot of uncertainty,
05:07which is why, you know, it's why we have rules and process.
05:12There are plenty of ways for a president to effectively, strategically, in a targeted way, impose a tariff.
05:19As the president said today, 301 tariffs, 232 tariffs.
05:22But the important point is follow the law so that we have certainty and predictability, not chaos.
05:30And, unfortunately, I do agree that this now adds a little bit, you know, more uncertainty.
05:37The good news is the Supreme Court did its job.
05:40It is independent.
05:41And the rule of law has been supported in this country.
05:45And that should give every business and every American comfort.
05:48But, yes, I do agree it's still uncertainty.
Comments