00:00Huge repercussions for the world and indeed India, the Supreme Court of the United States
00:06has just a short while ago ruled against President Donald Trump's powers to impose tariffs,
00:13declaring that his use of this emergency authority was illegal and unlawful.
00:19The US Supreme Court in a 6-3 verdict, so a fairly comprehensive verdict,
00:24has held that Trump's aggressive approach to tariffs on products entering the United States
00:29from across the world was not permitted under a 1977 law called the International Emergency Economic Powers Act.
00:40Joining me now is Rohit Sharma, joins me from Washington, D.C.
00:45Anisha Mathur joins us here. She tracks the courts here.
00:49But I want to go to you, Rohit, first. This is a major setback to Donald Trump,
00:53who over the last nine months has weaponized tariffs, including against India.
00:58What are Trump's options now that the court has ruled against him?
01:04Well, President Trump has two options, Rajdeep. I mean, this is definitely a major setback for the president,
01:08who actually wanted the Supreme Court to uphold his executive order, which they did not.
01:14It was kind of given after we heard the arguments back in November.
01:18So I think President Trump was trying and he knew that this could happen.
01:21We have Senator Lindsey Graham, who's championed a bill in the Congress, in the Senate, that has about 80 co
01:28-sponsors.
01:28So I think that would be his default option. Now he, Lindsey Graham, in this case, could actually table that
01:34in Senate,
01:35get it passed, push it to House and then make it legal. So that's number one.
01:39The other option that President Trump has is the Section 232 tariffs of the Trade Expansion Act.
01:44But this is limited in terms that he could only do this for six months.
01:48So we'll have to wait and watch what President Trump does.
01:51He was supposed to get into a meeting. He was supposed to actually do a press pool spray with governors.
01:57But as soon as the news broke out, everybody was ushered out of the room, the press, I mean.
02:01And I think the White House is currently huddling to see what would they do next.
02:06But this is definitely a major setback.
02:08And in terms of what impacts it would have on other countries,
02:10look, the countries that have already negotiated a trade agreement, including India,
02:14I don't think there would be any repercussions or consequences.
02:18I think those deals will stay as it is.
02:21I don't think anybody would like to upset President Trump.
02:24The only outlier is the European Union, and they have not signed a deal with President Trump.
02:30And I think that would be another major setback if the European Union wants to weaponize this
02:34and try to do another set of negotiation based on this ruling.
02:42But what happens to the existing tariffs?
02:45For example, with India at the moment, the tariffs do still remain as we speak at 25%.
02:50There was, of course, the additional 25% tariff that he imposed on oil purchases from Russia.
02:57Does all that go as of tonight?
03:00Or is that still on paper there until such time as the Senate decides next?
03:08What happens to actually in legal terms to the tariffs as we speak today?
03:14So technically, two things, Darcy.
03:16First, yes, you know, according to the Supreme Court, you know, the president did not have
03:20authority to do that.
03:21So yes, on paper, maybe they're not legal anymore, right?
03:23So there shouldn't be any.
03:25The other thing, and which gets really complicated here is,
03:28Supreme Court did not address the question that President Trump really wanted to have answered,
03:32which was, okay, you can turn it illegal if you think this is not right.
03:36But what about the money U.S. has collected,
03:38the tariff money U.S. has collected in the last 10 months or so?
03:41And they've left it out of the opinion.
03:43They have not ruled anything on that.
03:45And this is where I think it's going to get a little interesting.
03:48There are people who are trying to understand and decode what happens with that.
03:51But for now, you know, in legal terms, they've vacated that,
03:54meaning essentially there is not going to be any tariffs.
03:57They have not ruled on what happens as to what happens with the tariffs in terms of,
04:02do they stay?
04:03Does President Trump come out and do another exit order?
04:05Do we go back to pre-April 1, pre-the so-called Liberation Day,
04:15are tariffs back at those rates?
04:17According to this ruling, that is the assumption that this is where it stands.
04:21We'll have to wait and watch.
04:22I mean, it's a 170-page long opinion, Rajiv.
04:25It's pretty complicated in that sense also.
04:27So we'll have to understand.
04:28But now, I mean, meaning from now on forward, what we can definitely say is President Trump
04:33cannot issue another set or slap more tariffs on anybody using an executive order.
04:40That is there.
04:41Now, what happens previously?
04:42Do we go back to before April 1st?
04:43I think we'll have to wait and read and understand and break it down from the very,
04:48very interesting language that the Supreme Court has used in its 170-page opinion.
04:57I want to go to Anisha Mathur also.
04:59Anisha, have you looked at this tariff law and the way it operates?
05:03If this is a 6-3 verdict, the key question is whether it has any retrospective effect
05:09in terms of the tariffs that existed between April and February?
05:13Do we go back to a pre-April situation?
05:16Donald Trump could technically go to the Senate and try and push these tariffs to the Senate now.
05:20Well, Rajdeep, to answer that question is going to take a lot more insight into the U.S. law.
05:28But what we can tell you right now from reading this 170-page verdict is that the U.S. Supreme
05:35Court
05:36in its majority verdict has gone into the interpretation of IEEPA and the power of the President alone.
05:43They have not gone into the issue of refunds.
05:46They have not gone into the issue of what effect it will have with the foreign affairs and the various
05:52agreements.
05:53In fact, the dissenting opinion by Justice Kavanaugh has, in fact, noted this point
05:58that the interim effects of the court's decisions could be substantial.
06:02But as far as the majority opinion is concerned, Rajdeep, all I can tell you is that they have gone
06:08on the interpretation,
06:10only the interpretation of the IEEPA, saying that since the Congress did not specifically confer this power on the President,
06:18the President could not have imposed unilateral tariffs,
06:22that the President does not have the power to impose such tariffs during peacetime,
06:27even if the U.S. government had argued that the wartime emergency powers allows the President to take such unilateral
06:34action.
06:35So, as our colleague was also saying, Rajdeep, we'll have to see how this pans out in the next few
06:41days,
06:41because the question of whether the tariffs already collected would have to be refunded,
06:45what impact it will have on the foreign affairs,
06:49what impact it will have on the agreements that the U.S. government has inked with various governments,
06:54including our government, all of that will have to be,
06:57we'll have to wait and see what the next step is,
07:00because this is something that the dissenting opinion has flagged,
07:02that it could have a cascading effect.
07:04I just want to...
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