00:05Hello and welcome. I'm Siddharth Zarabi and joining me now at the UK Pavilion here at the
00:11AI Impact Summit in Bharat Mandibam, New Delhi is Kanish Narayan. He's the Minister for AI and
00:18Online Safety in the United Kingdom. Someone who was born in Muzaffarpoor, Bihar and at the age of
00:2412 moved with his parents to the United Kingdom. Kanish, welcome to the show. Thank you very much
00:30for your time with us. Today it's been a busy couple of days that you've been here. I want your
00:35first big takeaway with the summit so far. What have we really gotten achieved so far?
00:41Siddharth, it's great to be with you. The Impact Summit is called the Impact Summit. It has been
00:46deeply impactful. It's been impactful in terms of specific conversations with a range of commercial
00:51partners. The energy of the startup ecosystem in India and that in the UK has been a great source
00:56of conversation. Second, from a governance point of view, we've had a great set of bilateral
01:00conversations both with the Indian government but also with wider allies as well. And at the heart
01:05of it, sir, the really important part is that every event I've had a bunch of students come up to
01:10me
01:11and talk about their excitement, their enthusiasm, not just for AI but AI shaped by the values of the
01:16United Kingdom and India together. Kanish, one of the bigger moments geopolitically is the
01:21fragmentation of the world trade order as we knew it. And there are some implications for the world
01:26of artificial intelligence. What can the United Kingdom and India do more in this space to sort
01:33of set the agenda and not be followers of any other powers and their plans around AI? What do you
01:39think is the scope there? I think as the world gets more uncertain, the one certainty we have is the
01:44quality of the relationship between the UK and India. Deep shared values, amazing energy and talent, but at
01:50the heart of it, a focused future as well. And so in this geopolitical moment, I think there's a huge
01:55role
01:55for us to play, not just individually, but fundamentally together in shaping AI in light of the values. The
02:00Prime Minister of India talked about the values that he had, Manav being his acronym for it, is very
02:05consistent with where the United Kingdom is, shaping AI in the light of human values and humanity.
02:10Kanish, what would be an acronym that you would go with, since you spoke about Prime Minister Modi's
02:15Manav acronym? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think, I think the heart of it is technology that works for
02:19everyone. And so that's not quite an acronym, but that's the heart of what the Prime Minister of India
02:23was focused on, is the central focus for both the Prime Minister and the wider government in the UK.
02:28What stack do you think needs to be followed? The United States right here just a day before has said
02:34that
02:34the American stack, so to say, should be adopted and obviously by like-minded democracies across the world.
02:41Is that a view that you share? And for the United Kingdom, what is the policy path ahead?
02:45Well, look, we have a UK pavilion. We think we have a very compelling UK stack as well. And the
02:50big thing I'd say is the
02:51Americans are great allies for us, as they are for India as well. And I think together, the stack that
02:57we can build is
02:57going to be way greater, way stronger than the sum of its parts. And so that's the focus for us.
03:02Make sure that British
03:03strengths, both in chip design and cyber and applied AI, in DeepMind, the foundational company for AI, founded in
03:11London, that all of those play into the global stack as well.
03:14I had a conversation with the Canadian minister, one of the ministers there on similar lines, and I realized that
03:20everybody wants to be sovereign in terms of AI's capabilities. Do you think sovereign AI is very directly linked to
03:30national security? And as we go ahead, we'll see more sovereign AI. India has had two or three launches just
03:36a day ago. Is that the future globally?
03:40Look, I think the one thing we know for sure is that AI is increasingly the axis around which hard
03:45material power is being wielded. And in that context, each country has to have, I'd call it strategic leverage,
03:51rather than just sovereignty. And the reason I say that is because sovereignty or leverage is not about becoming an
03:56island by yourself with no connection to everyone.
03:59It's about mutual support and interdependence with allies that have the same values. That's what I want the UK to
04:05do with India. Yes, build strategic leverage, great British companies as part of the stack, but they're brilliant strengths that
04:11India has. We want to partner on those, make sure that collectively we're building a joint sense of sovereignty.
04:16Karish, we now have a trade agreement between the United Kingdom and India, specifically for the space and your portfolio.
04:24Does this provide greater opportunities for British firms in India and vice versa in the space of AI?
04:29Yeah, hugely so. Look, the one thing I'll say, through all the ups and downs of trade conversations globally, the
04:34UK and India have stood by each other consistently. The first FTA out of the gates for us coming out
04:39of the European Union, a deeply proud one in terms of the economic impact of it. But specifically on AI,
04:45it's a really important point that you make, Satak, because innovation very uniquely was a distinct chapter in the FTA
04:51for the UK and India. And that was a recognition that AI and technology will be the central area for
04:57our future relationship.
04:57Lots in terms of standards so that R&D can be easier between the countries, lots in terms of specific
05:03research collaboration, a joint center focused on AI between the two countries, but underpinning all of those, a really fundamental
05:09focus on bilateral people-to-people exchange commercially as well as politically.
05:13We are short on time, but before I let you go, I have to take the issue of online safety.
05:17For a country like Britain, for a country like India, with a massive number of users, online safety, particularly in
05:25the age of AI, is a big concern.
05:26How is the United Kingdom addressing that and how can we learn as a country to avoid, you know, all
05:33the pitfalls, the negatives of AI?
05:35Yeah, yeah. It's a really important part of my portfolio because at the heart of it, we only shape AI
05:40and technology appropriately if we shape it to make it safe and secure for people right across our countries as
05:45well.
05:45You know, let me give you an example. At the start of the year, Grok started allowing images, nude images
05:50of women and children on its platform. The United Kingdom stood up, said, this is completely wrong. We are not
05:55going to allow it. Our regulatory regime kicked into action. It stopped.
05:58Why did it stop? Because we did that, but also because India did it. India stood up and said, this
06:03is not in line with our values. It must stop. It stopped.
06:06The power that the UK and India have together to shape AI and technology in light of our values, in
06:11light of what is right versus what is wrong, is extremely powerful.
06:15And I think I think forms a basis for a lot more we can do on online safety together to
06:19some people would say that government overreach can stop innovation. Is that a fear that you think is valid?
06:24Yeah, I think, of course, theoretically, I can see that overreach in some areas can stop innovation. The big thing
06:29I would say, though, is there's a difference between overreach or underreach and government moving fast, even when it is
06:35regulating.
06:35Regulation can be a form of support for innovation. It can be a form of hindrance for innovation. So these
06:40things are a bit more nuanced than some of the debate sometimes gives away.
06:43At the very last, before I let you go, you have a fascinating life story and a journey that I'm
06:49told still keeps you connected with your roots, which is speaking in Bhojpuri. I don't speak that language. I speak
06:55many other tongues, including my mother tongue of Kashmiri.
06:58But a message to our viewers, particularly on our India's largest Hindi language television channel in Bhojpuri about what AI
07:08means for the average Indian.
07:09Siddharth Ji, Bhojpuri, Bhojpuri, I don't know, but I'm going to try to say that the UK and India's relationship
07:20is very special. Personally as well, but politically as well.
07:24So I wish all your viewers a very successful year ahead as well from everyone across the UK.
07:31India's relationship is very special for all of us.
07:34And I'm excited to say that.
07:35You've won the first time you've won the first time.
07:37Absolutely.
07:38You've gone to a lot of educational institutions.
07:42Have you ever thought that you will be a mentor in this situation?
07:46In my childhood, I was eating ramb and litchi.
07:50So at that time, I didn't think what will happen and what will happen.
07:53But I've been very grateful for all the opportunities I've had.
07:56Kanish Ji, you're very thankful.
07:58With that, it's a wrap on this short conversation, but with someone who we hope to talk to and engage
08:04in the future as well.
08:05With that, it's a wrap on this conversation with Kanish Narayan, the UK's Minister of EI and Online Safety,
08:10right here from Bharat, Mandapam.
08:13If you've been, thank you very much for watching.
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