- il y a 5 semaines
Reinventing News: Keeping Humans at the Heart of the Story
Catégorie
🤖
TechnologieTranscription
00:00Je pense que beaucoup de gens ici connaissent que c'est un temps d'excitation pour le journalisme.
00:06C'est aussi un très scénario, et en certains cas, il y a un peu plus d'existence.
00:12Je suis très heureux d'avoir vous ici aujourd'hui pour parler de la technologie,
00:17en termes de vos produits mais aussi du journalisme,
00:21et de garder le journalisme à l'intérieur de tout ce que nous faisons.
00:24Je pense qu'il y a un peu plus d'intérêt.
00:27Pierre, c'est votre territoire, je pense que je devrais commencer par vous.
00:32J'ai l'impression qu'il y a un peu plus d'intérêt.
00:34Mais la confiance en la media, c'est en decline,
00:38en tant que générations, mais surtout dans la jeune générale.
00:43Et je voulais juste...
00:44Vous savez, c'est un phénomène global,
00:46et il se semble que les trend lines sont en plus.
00:49Mais comment est-ce que vous approchez cette époque,
00:52et cette décline en truste, dans l'institutionnel de médias ?
00:56Alors, first of all, nous n'avons jamais eu beaucoup de readers.
01:01Nous sommes dans des temps où le nombre de nos readers a augmenté,
01:04et c'est encore encore en termes de print version readers,
01:08mais aussi, et bien évidemment,
01:11les abonnés et les abonnés.
01:13Donc, c'est la première bonne nouvelle pour la news,
01:16vous savez, que les gens lisent plus,
01:18et qui aurait pensé ?
01:19Donc, c'est très bon.
01:21Et puis, nous avons une autre chose qui nous a plu,
01:24c'est que beaucoup de nos readers sont accès à nous
01:28avec une nouvelle intermediation,
01:30qui est la recherche, qui est la recherche,
01:32qui est la recherche,
01:33et donc, nous essayons de développer,
01:34en tant que possible,
01:35le direct access à nous.
01:37Et puis, nous arrivons l'AI révolution,
01:40si vous voulez.
01:41Deux ans, ici, à ViverTech,
01:43nous étions mentionnés l'AI.
01:44L'année dernière, nous étions discutées,
01:46et maintenant nous étions expérimentés.
01:48Et dans tous les booths,
01:50il y a quelque chose qui est lié à l'AI,
01:51et des expériences,
01:52et des innovations qui sont créés sur ça.
01:55Donc, nous devons vivre avec cette nouvelle réalité.
01:59Les newspapers font des deals,
02:00ou ne font pas des deals.
02:01tous nous essayons d'obtenir des payements pour notre IP.
02:06Je pense que c'est une chose
02:07que nous devons mentionner instantanément.
02:09Vous savez,
02:10que personne ne devrait être capable de utiliser
02:12ce qui a été produit par les autres
02:13sans une rémunération.
02:15Je pense que c'est la principale rule du jeu.
02:18Et puis, nous savons que nos readers
02:21deviendront plus et plus expérimentés
02:23en utilisant l'AI,
02:24et les moyens d'accéder à l'AI.
02:31Et nous travaillons toujours.
02:32Nous l'utilisons plus en plus en plus.
02:34Mais afin de donner une bonne reputation,
02:40nous avons produit, deux ans,
02:42deux ans, un éthical charter,
02:44qui nous avons publié avant d'utiliser quelque chose.
02:46Nous disions qu'aucun article
02:48n'aurait jamais été publié,
02:49ou publié en ligne,
02:51ou dans la version print,
02:53qui n'aurait pas été écrit par une femme
02:55ou un homme dans la télévision.
02:56Il n'aurait pas été complètement automatisé.
02:59Et cela a donné beaucoup de confiance
03:02aux journalistes,
03:03qui pensent,
03:04qu'on va être remplacés,
03:06ou qu'il y a certains d'entre nous.
03:08Ils ne sont pas remplacés,
03:09ils sont ennés.
03:10Et c'est la vision que nous avons.
03:12Et Alex,
03:14comment vous avez-vous regardé cette question
03:15de la déclining trust ?
03:17Alors, évidemment,
03:18le New York Times est venu de la place
03:20de strength,
03:21vous êtes en un certain position
03:22de la plupart des autres organisations
03:24qui sont en train de voir différentes
03:26des trend lines.
03:28Mais, non-the-les,
03:30vous êtes attaqué,
03:31vous êtes attaqué,
03:32les mots de le New York Times
03:34peuvent être twisted
03:35par les créateurs,
03:36et donc,
03:37comment vous faites que la confiance
03:39dans le brand est paramount,
03:40et que la confiance dans votre journaliste
03:42reste à la fois ?
03:44Je veux dire,
03:45c'est vraiment une des plus centrales
03:48themes que nous discutons.
03:50Je suis d'accord avec beaucoup
03:51de ce que Pierre dit.
03:52Je pense que,
03:53juste à ajouter une autre dimension,
03:55je pense que la façon
03:56de construire confiance
03:56avec les audiences
03:57n'est pas la playbook
03:58de ce que nous avons fait
03:59des dernières années.
04:02Et pour nous,
04:03et dans la industrie,
04:05je pense que c'est safe
04:05de dire que nous n'avons pas
04:06d'envieillons
04:07d'envieillons
04:08d'envieillons
04:08d'envieillons
04:09d'envieillons
04:11et non gece-là globalement
04:16C'est même pas
04:18mathém momencie
04:18d'envieillons
04:19d'envieillons
04:22d'endes
04:23express the rigor,
04:26the expertise, the lengths that they
04:27went through to get an original
04:29fact-driven story. And you can see that if you pull
04:31up our app, most of our stories
04:33now lead with a vertical video
04:35of a reporter on camera in a very
04:37approachable way describing how they got the story
04:39and what's so interesting. Our
04:41reporters are doing incredible work to hop
04:43into the comments of their
04:45stories to answer people's questions
04:47to help clarify the complex. And so that
04:49is extraordinarily important.
04:51I think one of the other things that as an
04:53industry we really need to do to help
04:55protect the integrity and
04:57help build more trust is to work with
04:59governments as well to make sure that they do
05:01their part. Right now
05:03we need governments to be
05:06guardians of independent
05:07freedom and independent press. And
05:09unfortunately many are actually adversaries.
05:11And so that's the other piece of rebuilding
05:13trust is it starts with us
05:15with our talent and our journalists
05:17helping to rebuild trust back in the institution
05:19of brands like the New York Times
05:20and increasingly partnering with other institutions
05:23like the government to make sure that they're also
05:25upholding the free press. And it's
05:27quite alarming and quite essential that we do that.
05:29Yeah. How's that going?
05:31Which part?
05:33Working with the government to improve
05:35trust in institutional media in
05:37the US. I think I mean it's quite
05:39alarming. We do
05:41not see from many governments
05:43what we need to see which is
05:45protections for journalists.
05:47The freedom to do your work
05:49without fear of retaliation
05:51and retribution. Many governments
05:53are increasingly censoring information
05:55weaponizing information
05:57demonizing journalists.
05:59And so it is really a moment collectively
06:01for us to come together
06:02as an industry
06:04and be entirely firm
06:05that we stand for
06:07the free press
06:08for independent journalism
06:09and for organizations
06:10that are fact-based
06:11to do their job
06:12without fear of favor.
06:14It's quite alarming
06:15but this is a moment when we
06:16really cannot stand down.
06:18I think we have to be as loud
06:19and as principled as we can.
06:21And how's that working in France?
06:23Can you give the kind of perspective
06:25from over here
06:26in terms of
06:28working with the government
06:30to build things like
06:31you know safety for journalists
06:34media literacy
06:35and then obviously
06:36you know fair payment
06:37for content.
06:39I mean what are your kind
06:40of interactions there
06:41as far as with the French
06:43government is concerned?
06:45You mean the interaction
06:46with the AI agents?
06:48Sorry, with the government
06:50in terms of the government
06:52protecting the free press?
06:54Yeah.
06:56Well we have governments
06:58which obviously vary in Europe
07:00and have different takes
07:01on that issue.
07:03Maybe if you want to start
07:04with the European institutions
07:06and commission
07:07I think it took them
07:08a really long time
07:10before they understood
07:12the transformations
07:13brought by digital overall.
07:15Yeah.
07:15If I remember well
07:16it took 16 to 17 years
07:19after the birth of Google
07:20before there was ever
07:22a first summit
07:23dedicated to digital in Europe.
07:25There were summits
07:26on all topics
07:27which are really important too
07:28but not on that.
07:29So I think the reaction time
07:31was long
07:31but now they have fully
07:32grasped and understood
07:34the importance
07:35of the transformations
07:36obviously going on
07:37and we have almost
07:39one act per year now
07:41so DSA, DMA
07:44you know
07:44all new acts
07:47arriving
07:47and being delivered
07:48year after year
07:49which underlines
07:52the understanding
07:53that you need to
07:54you know
07:55harness
07:55put limits
07:56and so on
07:57but at the same time
07:58I think we all understand
08:00that you have to innovate
08:01before you regulate.
08:02So you have to innovate first
08:04and you don't want
08:05to kill innovation
08:06no one wants
08:07to kill innovation
08:08obviously
08:09but the synthesis
08:10between the two trends
08:12would be that
08:13you want to innovate
08:14in a slightly regulated world
08:17otherwise
08:18innovation will be
08:19feared by people
08:20and people will say
08:21okay
08:21what's going on
08:22with this innovation
08:23what will it change
08:24in my life
08:24so if you really want
08:25it to be unleashed
08:26you need to put some limits.
08:28So I think that's what
08:29the European institutions
08:31delivered
08:31and still
08:32are going to be
08:34delivering in the future
08:35and in the local
08:36yes and not local
08:38national governments
08:39there is obviously
08:40in France
08:42the idea
08:42and President Macron
08:43was very instrumental
08:45in that sense
08:46the idea that
08:47you want to have
08:49a nation
08:50that focuses
08:51on startups
08:52that focuses
08:52on innovation
08:53you want to have
08:55a protection
08:55of IP also
08:56in order
08:57for all the brains
08:58working on new developments
09:00to know that
09:01the products
09:02of their brains
09:03will be protected
09:03to some extent
09:04I think that's really important
09:05I don't want to be too
09:06heavily insisting on that
09:08but it's really important
09:09otherwise
09:09you know
09:10there is nothing
09:11and then
09:12he is adding
09:13and we're all
09:14putting together
09:15and even Viva Tech
09:16is the symbol for that
09:18the idea that
09:19you want to be able
09:19to scale
09:20and Mistral
09:21to name it
09:23is a real example
09:24of that
09:24Mistral
09:25is a symbol
09:26of great engineers
09:27trained in France
09:28creating a company
09:30and now
09:30raising a lot of money
09:32and going on the way
09:33to scaling
09:34signing with huge companies
09:36groups like
09:37say MassageM
09:38major deals
09:39signing with smaller companies
09:40working with the media
09:41you know
09:42in all ways
09:43being an accessible resource
09:45when it comes to AI
09:46and a resource
09:48developed in France
09:49basically
09:50great stuff
09:51I wanted to talk now
09:53about the topic
09:54of distribution
09:56it's quite clear
09:57that online
09:58we can no longer
09:59as
09:59sorry
10:00we
10:01the royal we
10:01that journalism institutions
10:03can no longer rely
10:04on a steady stream
10:05of traffic
10:06from Google
10:07from Facebook
10:07it's all changing
10:09and you know
10:10within Google itself
10:12they are
10:13becoming so intelligent
10:14in their search overviews
10:16that you don't even need
10:16to click into a website
10:18how are you
10:19kind of approaching
10:20that kind of
10:21like new era
10:22of distribution
10:24when
10:26you know
10:26the old ways
10:27of doing things
10:28SEO
10:28are being replaced
10:29with AEO
10:31and
10:32everything is changing
10:34at a pin drop
10:35you know
10:35in an instant
10:37how are you approaching
10:38those kind of distribution
10:39changes
10:39and people finding
10:40your work
10:41how about
10:42I start with you Alex
10:43yeah
10:43so this is
10:44this is giant
10:45and for us
10:46we started looking
10:48and examining
10:49at this question
10:50over a decade ago
10:51because when I think
10:53about where we were
10:5310 years ago
10:54we were a
10:55print first
10:56advertising first business
10:57we could already see
10:58the writing on the wall
10:59there was no clear
11:00growth path
11:00and so at a time
11:01when many news organizations
11:03were actively
11:04unbundling their content
11:05their products
11:06and their services
11:07and chasing scale
11:08and ad dollars
11:09on these platforms
11:11we made a very bold
11:12and a very counterintuitive
11:13decision at the time
11:14to become destination first
11:16and subscription first
11:17and that decision
11:19the idea that we could
11:20build direct relationships
11:21with our audience
11:22and build news
11:23and lifestyle products
11:24that had to be so distinct
11:26and so valuable
11:27that people would
11:28recognize us
11:30and come to us
11:30by name directly
11:31every single day
11:32that was truly the thing
11:34that has guided our
11:35transformation as a business
11:36so I appreciate you saying
11:37we're in a position of strength
11:38we were not
11:3910 years ago
11:40we really made this
11:41radical transition
11:42and I would say
11:43that that is still
11:43a very central part
11:45of how we think about
11:46running the business
11:47destination first
11:48and relationship first
11:49but then on top of that
11:51to your point
11:51the audience funnels
11:53are changing so dramatically
11:54so two things can be true
11:56you can be destination first
11:57and for us
11:59we want to have
11:59very productive
12:01partnerships
12:02with platforms
12:03where there's clear value exchange
12:04so that we can also
12:05find new entry points
12:07for news
12:07and games
12:08and sports
12:09and cooking
12:10and it's very important
12:12that we have a diversity
12:12of platforms
12:13we don't want to be
12:14at the whim
12:14of a single platform
12:16we've seen what happens
12:17when news organizations
12:18put all of their eggs
12:20in one basket
12:20and that diversity
12:22of platforms
12:23is actually quite important
12:24for us to maintain
12:25our independence as well
12:26and so it's a
12:27it's a dual pronged approach
12:29and it's tricky
12:31but that's the balance
12:32we're trying to strike
12:33and where are you
12:34in that journey
12:36in terms of this idea
12:38of the Google spigot
12:40has kind of been dialed down
12:42so how do you think
12:44about how people discover
12:46your journalism
12:47and are you also taking
12:49this destination first approach
12:54I'm sorry
12:54but I didn't understand
12:56or hear your question
12:57I literally do not hear
13:00or understand
13:01what you're saying
13:01sorry it's very loud in here
13:03I'm just saying
13:04as Google traffic
13:05as we know it
13:07is changing
13:07how are you bringing people
13:09into your journalism
13:10what kind of other routes
13:12are you taking
13:13well you know
13:14we live with Google
13:16we've been living with Google
13:17for a while
13:17we all try
13:18I think the New York Times
13:20also all the publications
13:21try to have as much
13:24owned traffic as possible
13:26direct access
13:27to your products
13:28this is what we're looking for
13:29because it's better
13:30you know people choosing you
13:32and going directly
13:34to your websites
13:34and your applications
13:36so we try to develop that
13:38for us
13:38in most of our publications
13:40it's about
13:41you know
13:4250% that comes
13:4455% that comes directly
13:45and the rest comes from
13:47Google mainly
13:49and not from many other
13:50search engines
13:51because
13:51you know
13:52everybody always mentions
13:54you're one step away
13:56from the competitor
13:56but if you don't even know
13:58the name of the competition
13:59it's difficult to find it
14:01you know
14:01so people Google
14:02and Google has become a word
14:04and socially
14:05Meta has 2.5 billion users
14:07so I'm always
14:08you know repeating
14:09that Google
14:10is the search of the world
14:11and Meta
14:11is the agora
14:12of the world
14:13you know
14:14people tend to meet there
14:15so we try to develop
14:16direct links
14:17we try to be present
14:18where our customers are
14:20also
14:20on all the different platforms
14:22that they can access us on
14:25and we have
14:27let's say
14:27a success story
14:28with Le Parisien
14:29which is a large
14:30generalist
14:32national and regional
14:33newspaper
14:34here in France
14:34we have developed
14:36video
14:37very very much
14:38because we
14:39understood that
14:41this media
14:42creates
14:43the right demographics
14:44for us
14:45you know
14:45the readers of the print version
14:47there are about 60
14:48the readers that access
14:49Le Parisien
14:50online
14:51or on telephones
14:53or tablets
14:54about 50
14:54and the video notes
14:5630
14:56so you gain 30 years
14:58of demographics
14:59by producing
15:00and now we have
15:01more than 400 million
15:02videos per month
15:04that are viewed
15:04which is
15:05very very many
15:07in France actually
15:07and by you know
15:09producing
15:09creating teams
15:10producing new formats
15:11this helped us
15:13a lot
15:13to make us
15:15even more
15:16well known
15:17online
15:17you know
15:18because
15:18and making it
15:19more and more
15:20a habit
15:21for people
15:21to go directly
15:22to find us
15:23and not
15:23go over
15:24search engines
15:25and so on
15:26I think that's
15:26the name of the game
15:27for us
15:27you know
15:28direct access
15:28direct relationship
15:30and ownership
15:31of the data
15:32also
15:32because of course
15:33you gain much
15:34more knowledge
15:35of your customers
15:36than through the others
15:38and how are you going
15:39about monetizing
15:41that
15:42I also wanted
15:43to talk a little bit
15:44about the kind
15:45of the rise
15:45of AI slop
15:47essentially
15:48AI synthetic content
15:49you know
15:50that takes eyeballs
15:51away
15:51but also that can
15:53potentially kind of
15:54trick or harm
15:55journalists
15:55if they're not
15:56careful
15:58so I guess
15:59maybe we talk
16:00more about
16:00the second
16:01kind of side
16:02of it
16:02but kind of
16:03what decision
16:04making processes
16:05do you go through
16:06as you decide
16:08AI can be such
16:10an enabler
16:10to our business
16:11but also can be
16:12so damaging
16:13at the same time
16:15and I know
16:15there's a
16:16you know
16:16you can partner
16:17you can soothe
16:19you can spar
16:19you can be somewhere
16:20in between
16:21like how do
16:21those decisions
16:22get made
16:23and perhaps
16:24I'll start
16:24yeah I'm happy
16:25to start
16:26so we
16:26we've been pretty
16:27clear I think
16:28about our principles
16:29which is very
16:29similar to what
16:30you were saying
16:31for us
16:32it's very important
16:33that we protect
16:34independent journalism
16:35which is a very
16:36costly
16:36and expensive
16:38endeavor
16:39by protecting
16:41our IP
16:41and it's not
16:42a defensive stance
16:43we truly believe
16:44that protecting IP
16:45is about
16:45protecting facts
16:47truth
16:47human creativity
16:48curiosity
16:49invention
16:50and in order
16:51to do that
16:53ideally you can
16:54strike productive
16:54partnerships
16:55with platforms
16:56we've done that
16:57with Amazon
16:58most recently
16:58but also Spotify
16:59Apple News
17:00and others
17:01and if that's
17:02not possible
17:03and if we find
17:04that a platform
17:05is using our
17:05content illegally
17:06if they are
17:07copying it
17:08manipulating it
17:10creating
17:11substitutive products
17:12we will enforce
17:13our rights
17:13and so
17:15it's actually
17:16a very clear
17:16set of principles
17:17that can just
17:17lead to different
17:18outcomes
17:18depending on the
17:19partner
17:20but the other
17:21thing that we do
17:22is we really
17:23think about
17:24human expertise
17:25and judgment
17:26as our differentiator
17:28and even though
17:29AI isn't our
17:29strategy
17:30if there's a way
17:31for it to
17:32advance
17:32the human craft
17:34and the business
17:35of journalism
17:35we are very
17:37interested in
17:38using it
17:38ambitiously
17:39to make sure
17:40that more and more
17:40people can engage
17:41with our journalism
17:42and so
17:42we do use it
17:43within our own
17:44newsroom
17:44and one of my
17:46newsroom colleagues
17:46actually described it
17:47recently as
17:48AI is more
17:49like a parlor
17:50trick
17:50where it's not
17:51useful on its own
17:52but when you
17:53combine it
17:53with a really
17:54high quality
17:55excellent structured
17:56data set
17:56and then a conductor
17:58of sorts
17:58who really knows
17:59what to do
17:59with it
17:59you can just
18:00unlock
18:01incredible journalism
18:02which is more
18:02of an assistive
18:03superpower
18:03to the journalist
18:05versus a replacement
18:06and so that line
18:07and that type
18:07of principle
18:08has led to us
18:09analyzing
18:11giant data sets
18:12public data sets
18:13for some of our
18:13veteran White House
18:14reporters
18:14to uncover
18:15patterns
18:15because you
18:16have a reporter
18:16who knows
18:17how to prompt
18:17and look
18:18for the answers
18:19and then you
18:20have machine
18:20learning engineers
18:21on staff
18:22who can really
18:22help them
18:23get to the best
18:24answers
18:24so that in my
18:25mind is the
18:25best of both
18:26worlds
18:26where we can
18:28protect our IP
18:28but also
18:29responsibly use
18:30AI to amplify
18:31human expertise
18:33and judgment
18:33versus getting
18:34anywhere close
18:35to thinking
18:35that we're replacing
18:36it
18:36which is just
18:37not true
18:37for us
18:38for sure
18:38and yeah
18:39Pierre what
18:40goes into
18:41these AI
18:42partnerships
18:42like what
18:43what are
18:43kind of
18:43table stakes
18:44but also
18:45what do you
18:45want AI
18:46to enable
18:46yeah
18:47so for us
18:48really
18:48AI is
18:50both a tool
18:51and an agent
18:52which are
18:53two different
18:54things
18:54so we have
18:55to learn
18:56how to use
18:56the tool
18:57and how to
18:58harness the
18:58agent
18:59because you
18:59don't want
18:59to be replaced
19:00by the agent
19:02but basically
19:03fundamentally
19:04I keep repeating
19:05to the teams
19:06AI is an
19:07incredible
19:07enhancer
19:08of human
19:09intelligence
19:09it gives
19:11even
19:12it shines
19:12more light
19:13on what
19:13human
19:14intelligence
19:14is
19:15and why
19:16it is
19:16so different
19:16okay
19:17the AI
19:18tools we
19:18use
19:19are going
19:19to make
19:19it possible
19:20for us
19:20to have
19:20an incredible
19:21synthesis
19:22of everything
19:22that was written
19:23in the past
19:24very quick
19:25usually pretty good
19:26you know
19:27you can improve
19:27it
19:28it will produce
19:29new pictures
19:30don't produce
19:31too many pictures
19:31because it consumes
19:32the planet
19:33for nothing
19:33actually
19:33it's very very
19:35heavy in terms
19:35of machine use
19:36so it's going
19:37to be able
19:38to make
19:39a let's say
19:40speak to text
19:40version
19:41so quickly
19:42so pretty well
19:43you know
19:43this is perfect
19:44that's the tool
19:45but it's not
19:46going to be able
19:47to invent
19:48you know
19:49the next steps
19:50what a journalist
19:51like Alex
19:52or journalist
19:53in the room
19:54will do
19:55is speak to people
19:56find a new
19:57information
19:57and put it online
19:59you know
19:59bring it to the public
20:00it's not yet
20:01in the machine
20:02it will be in the machine
20:03a minute after
20:04but so
20:05they're just
20:05digesting
20:06digesting
20:07super well
20:07everything that was
20:08done before
20:09but they're not
20:10inventing
20:10the follow-up
20:12they're not inventing
20:12what's coming up
20:14and so this is really
20:15important in terms
20:16of journalism
20:17it teaches us
20:19to be on the ground
20:20be on the floor
20:21go to meet people
20:22talk to real people
20:23get the real information
20:24put it in light
20:26check it two or three times
20:28and then it's something
20:29that will be digested
20:30but again
20:31it's an enhancer
20:33of the difference
20:34we can make
20:35and it's not
20:36a threat for me
20:37it's a tool
20:38that we can use
20:38as long as we define
20:40the rules of use
20:42we have now
20:43some publications
20:45that publish
20:46only AI produced news
20:48for me
20:49they belong
20:50to a different regime
20:51even legally
20:51they should not
20:52have the same system
20:54because
20:54no human intervention
20:56will be there
20:56no human judgment
20:58no human intuition
21:00and I'm not convinced
21:01that AI
21:02will ever
21:02be able to cope
21:03with those elements
21:05which are our difference
21:07and our assets
21:08actually
21:08I so agree
21:10with what you said
21:11AI cannot find information
21:13that doesn't want
21:14to be found
21:14because it doesn't exist
21:16on the internet yet
21:16and that is giant
21:18the hard truths
21:19that need to be dealt with
21:20the stories
21:21that need to be told
21:22that is where
21:23expert journalists
21:24are vital
21:26to life
21:26to curiosity
21:27to democracy
21:28it's
21:29I couldn't agree more
21:31yeah
21:31I completely agree
21:33just to kind of
21:34chime in there
21:34like your
21:35your role as a journalist
21:36is to find the new
21:38is to shine the light
21:39where it doesn't want
21:40to be shone
21:41not to repeat the old
21:42and I think
21:42some of the work
21:43that both of your
21:44organizations are doing
21:45is just kind of
21:46really exciting
21:47in that area
21:48and you know
21:48who knows
21:49this time next year
21:49we might have solved
21:50some of the kind of
21:51monetization problems
21:52and the distribution problems
21:54well fingers crossed
21:55anyway
21:56for all of our sakes
21:57but I'm afraid
21:58we're all out of time
21:59if we could give
22:00a big hand to Pierre
22:01and Alex
22:02thank you so much
22:03thank you
22:03thanks
Commentaires