- il y a 5 semaines
Leap to the Future Decarbonized Aviation
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00:00Vous devez savoir qu'il y a déjà été un peu de debate en la green room,
00:03donc c'est ce qui va être un peu de discussion, je pense.
00:06Je ne sais pas si personne d'autre ici, mais je suis en train d'increcer des guilts
00:11sur mon voyage. Je suis sur un plane presque chaque semaine.
00:15Ma carbon footprint n'est pas très bonne à ce moment-là.
00:18Mais le bon news est que ce secteur est hopingé à atteindre net zero par 2050.
00:22Qui sait, peut-être qu'il peut atteindre avant ça.
00:25Mais il va falloir beaucoup de travail et c'est génial qu'il y a beaucoup de stakeholders
00:28really from across the sector.
00:30We've got the aircraft makers, we've got new fuel, and we've got airports
00:33which will provide a really critical part of infrastructure to allow this to happen.
00:38Guillaume, let's start with you because I know that we're going to hear a lot
00:41about hydrogen electricity, but there are a number of different options
00:45that as an aircraft maker you're looking at to achieve sustainable goals.
00:52So?
00:54And you may make some corrections.
00:55Yeah, so first I'd like to react to the introduction.
00:58because it was said aviation is one of the most polluting sectors.
01:03Well, I think we have to look at facts, and that's not what the facts are saying.
01:09Transport is one of the most polluting sectors.
01:12Aviation is a small part of transport.
01:14And if we're speaking about CO2, because I think what's behind aviation is 2% of the CO2 emissions.
01:22So 2% is a lot in the grand scheme of things, but there is 98% that is not
01:29aviation.
01:30So, and when you look at agriculture, home, and...
01:35And shipping.
01:36And other forms of transport as well.
01:38So I think we need to be very factual on what you're speaking about.
01:42But this being said, we want to decarbonize aviation.
01:45We are in what we call the fourth revolution of aviation.
01:48The first one was to make things heavier than air fly.
01:53So to fly in the air.
01:55That was a century ago, a bit more.
01:57The second was to make aviation safe.
02:00And today that's by far the safest mode of transport on the planet.
02:05The third one was to democratize.
02:07And today it is democratized.
02:10Sometimes we are attacked for having tickets which are not expensive enough.
02:15That shows to what extent it is democratized.
02:17And the fourth revolution is indeed to decarbonize.
02:20In that revolution, to make things very simple, we need to put less carbon in the air.
02:27Or zero carbon by 2050.
02:29The first priority is to have planes that need less energy.
02:34that burn less fuel to do the same mission.
02:38And that's what we're doing.
02:39And we've been already very successful at this.
02:42Since the 60s, we have reduced by 80% the fuel burn by passenger and by kilometer.
02:50And since the 90s, we've reduced by 50%.
02:53So that's really something that is quite impressive.
02:56And we will continue down that path to burn less fuel.
02:59But that's not enough.
03:00We need also to have fuels that put less carbon in the air.
03:03And the fuel side is a very important one.
03:06So we are looking at what we call sustainable aviation fuels that are today used in very
03:11small quantities, but have the potential to be used in much greater quantities.
03:16And there are very diverse pathways, different types of sustainable aviation fuels, whether
03:22you're looking at the short term, mid term, or the long term.
03:26When you burn kerosene, the traditional fuel in an engine, you take carbon that was at the
03:33origin below the surface of the earth, that has been refined, and then you put that carbon
03:37in the air.
03:38That's the source of global warming.
03:40A sustainable aviation fuel is a fuel that takes carbon in the air, that is processed, and
03:46then burn again in a turbine, and it goes back into the air.
03:50It's neutral.
03:51But you're putting carbon in the air.
03:53And at Airbus, and we're not the only ones, we've looked at the other ways of using a
03:59liquid fuel that is very dense in terms of energy.
04:03And we've come to the conclusion that the one that makes sense for aviation is hydrogen.
04:08And with hydrogen, you don't put any carbon in the air.
04:12And if you're using the hydrogen in a fuel cell, there's no carbon, but there's no non-carbon
04:18emission.
04:19There's no emission at all.
04:21So we believe that's the ultimate way of powering aviation.
04:25We are at the beginning of those technologies.
04:27I'm sure we will be speaking about it.
04:29And at Airbus, we are working to put the first commercial aircraft in service by 2035 that
04:39will be a hydrogen-powered aircraft.
04:40And how big will that aircraft be, out of interest?
04:43So that's a work in progress.
04:45It will be at the low end of commercial aviation.
04:49And that will be something that will be roughly, probably, around 100 passengers for a range
04:55of around 1,000 nautical miles.
04:58But the work is being done today to optimize the size and the range of the plane.
05:04Right.
05:04Now, we're going to work on this hydrogen fuel.
05:07I'm going to talk more at length with this.
05:08Eloah, tell us about your business and where you're at in terms of developing the technology.
05:14Well, first of all, I'm really delighted to be here with you today and be able to speak
05:19about the future of travel on this panel.
05:22So I'm Eloah, the co-founder and CEO of Beyond Aero.
05:26And we are working on a hydrogen electric aircraft.
05:29The company is based in Toulouse.
05:31We are four years old.
05:33And we flew the first hydrogen aircraft of France in the air.
05:38So you can see it here.
05:40Absolutely.
05:41So it's a prototype.
05:42It was a two-seater.
05:45It flew ten times.
05:46Right there, you can see on the pictures.
05:49So it's gas hydrogen going through a fuel cell, powering an electric engine.
05:54So that's why we say hydrogen electric, because it's an electric aircraft, but it's not lithium
06:00batteries.
06:01Lithium batteries are too heavy for aviation.
06:04They would limit the range to 100 to 100 miles.
06:08So if you use gas hydrogen or hydrogen fuel cells, we're going to work on a six-seater aircraft
06:15flying on 1,000 miles.
06:17So it's not as efficient as kerosene, but it has zero direct emission on the aircraft.
06:23So this is what we start for, and then my vision is that aviation will be electric one day.
06:30The question is when.
06:32If you look in 1,000 years, it's going to be electric.
06:35So we're going to have lithium batteries for shorter range, hydrogen, and maybe combustion
06:40chamber.
06:41It's going to be a mix of different technologies for different markets.
06:45But we start by building, as you can see on the video, first hydrogen aircraft for France,
06:51and then we will work on a six-seater.
06:54I mean, it looks like it's been a fantastic moment, and we'll talk more about some of
06:57the limitations in terms of the aircraft that you're developing.
07:00But first, let's talk to Augustin about the airport side of things, because that's another
07:05really important stakeholder.
07:06It's all very well to have the right fuels, to have new technology, to have new aircraft,
07:12but what do airports need to do to make sure they're ready for this fourth revolution?
07:16So, our airports, first and foremost, we have to support all the efforts to decarbonize
07:23aviation.
07:25I often say that until 2019, nobody or few people in the world of airlines, aircraft suppliers,
07:36etc., was very interested by decarbonization.
07:39Some of them were, but at the end of the day, the world of aviation thought that the last
07:45good of kerosene was for us.
07:49Since 2019, and perhaps the COVID, everybody is conscious that the license to grow is in decarbonization.
07:59And do you realize that 90% of the world population never flown?
08:07It means that if we want to allow next generations to flow, we have to prepare hydrogen in the airports,
08:18sustainable aviation fuels in the airports, and you have many techniques.
08:22We are, we have to be prepared to.
08:25I can tell you that two years ago, my, my fellows did show me an organization to produce hydrogen
08:35in the airport.
08:37I'm not sure we will do.
08:38It's not, it's a, it's a hypothesis, but we have to be prepared.
08:43If my friends here do succeed in their enterprises, and we support that, we have to be prepared to give
08:53their planes the kind of hydrogen they need.
08:56We have to store the hydrogen.
08:59We have, we have to be sure the hydrogen is produced, and it's a green one, which means which kind
09:05of electricity
09:06electricity you use to produce, how do you store, how do you put in the plane.
09:13So we have a lot of studies.
09:16We had a joint venture with Air Liquide to help airports in the world to cope with this kind
09:23of question.
09:24But today, we already offer to, to business travelers sustainable aviation fuel in Le Bourget.
09:33Today, in Le Bourget, you have the opportunity to fuel your plane with fuel with 30% of bio fuel.
09:44And we promote this kind of advantage in all our airports.
09:51Let's talk as well about the traveler, because you're all working hard on solutions here.
09:56And I'm always curious to know where the pressure comes from when it comes to sustainability in different
10:00sectors.
10:00Is it the regulator hitting you with a stick?
10:03Is it your shareholders or is it ultimately the customer?
10:06Do you worry about flight shame in the future?
10:12Flight shame is a reality today.
10:14It's been an emerging trend in few countries.
10:19That's not the trend of all the world.
10:21I have the opportunity to meet airlines, customers in a lot of countries of the world, in developing
10:28countries.
10:29That's not, that's not the motto.
10:31The motto is really about flying.
10:32And Augustin, you said 90% of the world population has not flown today.
10:37When you look at the statistics in Western countries, if you look at France, for instance, 80% of people
10:46between, I think it's 18 to 27 years old, 80% say that they have flown at least once in
10:55their life.
10:56And 60% declare that they have flown in the last year, at least one flight.
11:01So it's not equally distributed.
11:03And in the developing countries, they want to access to aviation.
11:07They want to have the possibility to travel by air.
11:10And that's really something that is very inspirational for young people.
11:14Still, I think this flight shame is a trend that is helping us.
11:23We want to decarbonize.
11:25It puts pressure on public policies.
11:28It's visible in the media.
11:29And it raises the attention on the need to decarbonize aviation.
11:33So we've been actually very helped by the trend when it comes to discussing with political stakeholders,
11:40when it comes to investing money, when it comes to reaching out to airlines and others,
11:44to find the alliance of players, of stakeholders that want to move in that direction.
11:51But as we heard at the introduction, there's a lot of inappropriate statements about aviation.
11:58There's the belief that aviation is polluting a lot and that by stopping flying, we would solve the climate change
12:05issues.
12:06Again, 98% of the carbon emissions are unrelated to aviation.
12:11And aviation is contributing to the world GDP by far more than 2%.
12:17So aviation is contributing to wealth and prosperity that is needed to decarbonize the world.
12:23So we have to take our own share and decarbonize aviation.
12:26But I don't believe, and the facts are confirming what I'm saying, that stopping aviation is a way to decarbonize
12:33the world.
12:33That's not the case.
12:34It's going to cost a lot of money to make aviation more sustainable, where we're looking at drop-in SAF,
12:40which is much more expensive than kerosene,
12:43or whether we're looking at new technologies.
12:45Augustin, do you think passengers will have to pay more in the future?
12:51First and foremost, I would like to add just one word that Guillaume said.
12:56I think that aviation is an easiest scapegoat, you know, because aviation is accessible for wealthy people.
13:04So it's very easy to consider that aviation is a scapegoat.
13:07But at the end of the day, it's only 2% of the emissions of the world.
13:10So, yes, the aviation must be more expensive for a simple reason.
13:16You have to invest to buy new planes, and you have to buy sustainable aviation fuel, which is the most
13:22expensive.
13:24Today, it is around five times the price of normal fuel.
13:29And so, at the end of the COVID, I was very impressed by the statistics in early.
13:37In July, the year after COVID, the traffic was the same than before COVID, and prices was 30% more.
13:49It means that the elasticity of people, of travelers, to prices is not so high.
13:58So, you know, in France, you have often the debate, train is too expensive, and the plane is not enough
14:05expensive.
14:05It is absolutely stupid.
14:07But it reveals that, for me, there is a margin for the society to accept, to pay for the decarbonization
14:16of aviation.
14:17I thought it was really interesting.
14:19I also put out the Global Passenger Survey from 2023.
14:2465% of air travelers would pay a premium to fly with sustainable fuel.
14:29So, I think perhaps the demand is there.
14:32Let's talk more about the business traveler.
14:34I think it's really fascinating.
14:36You're focusing, I guess, on this type of aircraft, in this particular traveler, due to some constraints with the technology?
14:44Absolutely.
14:44For three reasons.
14:45The first one is because of the market need.
14:49Private aircraft, they produce two tons of CO2 per hour.
14:53So, yes, this flight shame reason as a go-to market.
14:58So, the clients are willing to pay more to fly in an electric aircraft.
15:02So, as a startup, it's more efficient for us, as a business model, to start with this market.
15:08Second reason, because of the technology.
15:10For this size of aircraft, it's a six-seater.
15:13It's a relatively small aircraft.
15:15For this size of aircraft, we can buy the electric engine.
15:18We can buy the fuel cells.
15:21We can buy the tanks.
15:22We don't need to redevelop every subsystem.
15:25So, we are really the final integrator of existing subsystem, redesigning the aircraft around the hydrogen propulsion.
15:33And the third reason is because of the certification.
15:38If you stick below 8.6 tons, you fall in a category called the CS-23.
15:44And this is faster, easier to certify an aircraft.
15:49So, as a startup, it makes more sense to develop this size of aircraft first for market need, maturity of
15:57the technology, and certification.
16:00You said what I wanted you to say, which was this is what we're going to start with first.
16:04So, you're planning a six-seater, and I believe you're looking to fly your first private, or sorry, business jet
16:11by 2030.
16:13What happens after then?
16:14Because by 2035, Guillaume here is going to be having an aircraft with 100 plus seats in the air powered
16:20by hydrogen.
16:22Yeah, he has the funding.
16:25Absolutely.
16:25Well, all aircraft is a go-to market with gas, hydrogen, and then eventually we can switch to liquid and
16:32improve.
16:33Today, like I was saying, we buy things that exist from suppliers, and we really redesigned the aircraft around it.
16:40That means, where do you store the tanks?
16:43Because they are volumic and massive.
16:45So, you need to rethink the architecture of the aircraft around the hydrogen propulsion system.
16:50It's also, how do you cool down the fuel cells?
16:53You need an air intake system somewhere to cool the fuel cells down.
16:57So, really the core IP of the company is about the architecture of aircraft made for hydrogen.
17:03It's not about redeveloping every subsystem.
17:06And we will do a V2, V3 of the aircraft when the suppliers are doing better tanks or better fuel
17:13cells.
17:14You've got startups snapping at your heels.
17:18Guillaume, there are some challenges for aircraft makers of late.
17:22Boeing has a few issues, which I don't think we need to talk about here.
17:26But Airbus, your order book is packed, which is great news, but it must be a struggle to get all
17:31the production ramped up.
17:32And there have been supply chain issues.
17:35So, how are you going to build aircraft of the future when it's a bit of a struggle to build
17:40aircraft for today?
17:42We just do both, and that's not new.
17:46Actually, we have indeed an incredible backlog that reflects the appetite of customers for modern planes, including because they burn
17:54less fuel.
17:56Yes, it's an investment to acquire a new generation plane, but it's a plane that's going to be more cost
18:02and fuel efficient.
18:03So, it's an investment.
18:05We have a backlog of 8,600 planes contracted to be delivered.
18:10And we are investing a lot to ramp up.
18:13These are industrial investments.
18:15At the same time, and we will keep doing it, these are other teams, the R&D and the research.
18:20We're investing in the next generation of planes to burn less fuel, to be decarbonized on conventional technologies, but as
18:29well to go for hydrogen.
18:30And on the hydrogen technologies, we are very happy to see other players.
18:35There's little risk of having competition.
18:38There would be a risk of having no competition, of being alone on that technology.
18:42And it's good to see that startups and smaller companies go for it.
18:49Five years ago, when we were speaking about the hydrogen plane, there was a lot of skepticism and people were
18:55saying, of course, it will never work.
18:58Well, now it's flying.
18:59So, we have less people saying it will never work.
19:02And we have the cars and the trucks and the ships and the satellites and the rockets, the launchers that
19:08fly with hydrogen.
19:09So, why would the planes not be capable of flying with hydrogen?
19:12So, indeed, we are at a time that is fantastic in the industry.
19:17From an industrial standpoint, a lot of production, a lot of challenges on the ramping up, the speed of getting
19:24to higher production rates.
19:25And at the same time, a lot of technological investments on digital, on automation and robotization.
19:33And, as we are discussing here, on decarbonization.
19:36You know what, I confess, I was one of the skeptics five years ago.
19:40I eat my words and it makes me rethink my skepticism about flying taxis and some of the other technologies
19:47you see around Vivitech.
19:49Augustin, I want to talk about emissions beyond the actual air travel.
19:53Because a traveler's journey doesn't start in the air.
19:56What else are airports doing to support a lower emission journey for passengers?
20:01So, we have three kinds of actions.
20:04First and foremost, we reduce emissions in our airports.
20:07Our target is to be net zero emissions in Orly in 2030 and in Charles de Gaulle in 2035.
20:17So, we have many, many levers.
20:19I could give you some examples.
20:22We experiment that we call taxi bots.
20:24It means the big machines, the big trucks to tow the planes which are hybrid today.
20:31We buy them because it's very, very expensive.
20:34And the subcontractors have no means to invest.
20:37We also, we did sign with Dassault Aviation an agreement to allow them in Le Bourget to use electric tools
20:48for each step of the aviation operations, fueling, taxiing, towing.
20:54We also use a sub-energy system.
21:02We use biomass in Orly.
21:05We use photovoltaic parts.
21:08We have been one of the first groups in France to buy solar energy for 22 years.
21:16So, we buy all the electricity which is produced by solar energy.
21:20And today, around 20% of our electricity is produced only by solar energy.
21:25So, we have a lot, a lot of initiatives.
21:29I would not quote all of them.
21:30It will be, it will bother you.
21:32Second, we support innovation.
21:36We did invest in an American company whose name is Lanza Jet, who invest in the alcohol to jet sustainable
21:46aviation fuel.
21:47I'm very impressed by the gap between United States and Europe.
21:51In Europe, we have a big group which produces SAF, which is Neste, but other groups are late.
21:59And for me, it's important to promote the use and the production of sustainable aviation fuel.
22:04And we also promote innovation.
22:09We had a discussion a few, a few minutes ago with Guillaume Fourier about the future of eVTOL.
22:14eVTOL is just an icon of the way to improve services, for example, sanitary urgencies.
22:24It helps to evacuate people when they have accidents or something like that.
22:30And the third action we have is to be a promoter and a catalyst for all the new ways for
22:37propulsion for planes.
22:39So, we promote the use of SAF.
22:44We promote use of hydrogen.
22:45We have an agreement with six companies, among them Beyond Aero.
22:51We promote Beyond Aero.
22:53We help them to test airports.
22:55And I think doing that, we are in our mission to be sure that we don't push people to travel.
23:03We push people to have a good experience in the airport with a decarbonization action at the same time.
23:13I mean, that answer was so interesting because I think it highlights a really important piece of the puzzle for
23:18this sector,
23:19which is collaboration and partnerships.
23:21You partner with so many different stakeholders to make this possible.
23:26For sure, we are partners with a company of energy, as I told you with Longerjet.
23:32We are partners with Airbus, with many, many, many fields.
23:35We are partners with small startups.
23:38We are partners with Dassault.
23:40And we also are partners with companies of solar energy.
23:45I think in the future, we have to create an ecosystem which will help us to accelerate.
23:52Because if we, as an airport, consider that we have nothing to do in that, what will happen when the
24:01hydrogen planes will arrive?
24:03We will not be prepared.
24:05And, you know, in a critical situation, we should be led to produce in the vicinity of the airport.
24:13But to do, to produce hydrogen in 10 years, we have to think about that now, which needs, which means
24:21that we have to be partners to think about that.
24:26And what's the one challenge that you would like to overcome?
24:30If you could just pick one challenge that you face in the next few years.
24:35Is it the regulators? Is it the technology?
24:38Just coming back on what has been said, it's amazing to see that, right, it's happening.
24:44It is happening right now.
24:46Like you said a few years ago, we are thinking, oh, it may happen one day.
24:49And as you can see, on a prototype scale for sure, but it's not just startup.
24:54It's everyone working.
24:56You said ecosystem.
24:57And there is a lot of strong partnerships made.
25:00We are talking about competition.
25:02Actually, we do not compete.
25:03You have different type of market, different type of needs.
25:07And we are in the history of aviation.
25:10It's made of collaboration, partnership from new players and traditional players.
25:15So just to complete, I completely agree on what you said.
25:20And it's because we are working together that it's going to happen.
25:24Answering your questions, there are a lot of challenges.
25:28Technical challenges, funding, safety, regulation, recruitment, a lot.
25:35But the question is just when.
25:37Because we have no other choice to just do it.
25:40So you said one, I would say certification.
25:44Certification is key because we are in an industry where the key word is safety first.
25:49So even if we try to innovate, we have to make sure that it's going to be 99% sure
25:56that it's going to fly in a safe way.
25:58So even if you try to push and innovate, it's certification the real challenge.
26:03Make it fly, prototyping, fine.
26:05We will succeed on that.
26:07How do you make it safe and sustainable on the long term?
26:11That's a real challenge.
26:12Is it the same challenge for you from the scale of Airbus?
26:15When we look at the path to 2050 and the carbon neutrality by 2050, we feel very comfortable with the
26:23technology.
26:24It's in our hands.
26:27And there is a good alignment between interest of customers for better planes and planes that are more ecological.
26:36If you burn less fuel, it's less expensive to operate.
26:41Actually, it's more competitive.
26:42So that's the alignment that I was mentioning before.
26:46The other thing that is important is the ramp up of the use of SAF.
26:51And on that one, it's a different equation.
26:54A SAF is more expensive than a traditional fuel.
26:57And there is less appetite, maybe no appetite, for airlines to use more expensive fuels.
27:04So this disalignment between ecology and economy on the SAF is the nut we need to crack.
27:11There are different ways of doing it, but today we are not as fast as we would need.
27:16In the early phases, we see that a number of regions or countries are trying in the U.S. with
27:22the IRA.
27:23That makes SAF very competitive.
27:26And we see that this is very efficient.
27:27It works in the U.S.
27:29In Europe, it's through mandates.
27:31But the mandate for 2030 is for a use of 6% of SAF.
27:37We would have preferred 10% at Airbus.
27:38We know there are competitive issues.
27:40The level playing field with other regions around Europe is a challenge.
27:44But we believe that this is a way.
27:47Now, we are suffering from the lack of harmonization around the world.
27:53It's all about level playing field.
27:55You said it.
27:56The elasticity is not such a big problem.
28:00We would still be with a ramp up of aviation through the use of more expensive fuels,
28:05especially with planes that burn less fuel.
28:08So, it's not the elasticity that is a risk or the price.
28:13It's the difference between the different players.
28:16And as an airline, you don't want to be using SAF first.
28:20You want to see the others using SAF first.
28:22That makes you more competitive compared to them.
28:25So, would we be in a situation where the use of SAF would be the same for everyone?
28:30Adoption of SAF would be much faster.
28:32Yeah.
28:32And that's what's lacking today.
28:34And therefore, all the engagement that we have at Airbus with regulators, with energy and fuel manufacturers, with countries, when
28:43it's about subsidies, with airlines, with all the players, to try to create that momentum.
28:49And while hydrogen is hopefully one of the big futures for aviation, SAF is the reality for the coming years
28:57to bridge that gap.
28:58And I think it's going to account for about 60% of the emissions reductions to reach net zero by
29:042050.
29:04Quick round.
29:06Are we going to reach net zero by 2050?
29:09Sorry?
29:10What is the question?
29:10Net zero by 2050.
29:12For sure.
29:13SAF, it is for the beginning, but at the end, you need hydrogen.
29:16When you produce SAF, you transform.
29:21At the end of the day, the ESAF is hydrogen, you go to SAF.
29:26So, I think the most straight way to go is to use hydrogen directly.
29:31That's the reason why I support Eloua and Guillaume to be pioneers in the hydrogen.
29:37And for me, which is very interesting, is that we invent aviation in France.
29:43Clément Adair did invent aviation.
29:45And I'm very proud that France is a leader for aviation with hydrogen with its two companies.
29:53It's a quick fire.
29:54Yes or no?
29:55Net zero, 2050.
29:56Commitments have been made.
29:58It's happening.
30:00The industry is one of the last industries where in Europe, we are in advance compared to the US.
30:08And East and West.
30:11So, yes, we have started.
30:14Aviation will be electric.
30:15The question is when?
30:172050.
30:19The jury's out.
30:20The jury's out.
30:21Okay, well.
30:22Hopefully.
30:23We have a plan.
30:24And there's a lot to be done.
30:25And we need to be working with a lot of stakeholders and players to make sure that on the technology,
30:33on the certification, on the fuels, on the airport, with the regulators, there is a good alignment.
30:39There's a very good news, which is that a year and a half ago, the IKO countries,
30:44so all the countries of the world that belong to IKO, the International Organization for Civil Aviation,
30:50have agreed on this commitment to carbon neutrality by 2050 for aviation.
30:56And we see the regulatory framework, the investment, the action of the governments and the regulators,
31:04progressively aligning with that priority.
31:07I was recently in China.
31:09China is doing its chair as well.
31:10It's quite impressive what we see in terms of acceleration in China on decarbonization.
31:14And I am becoming more and more optimistic that we won't be late to the 2050 objective.
31:20But there's still a lot to be done.
31:22We are running over.
31:23I should never ask for a yes-no question to CEOs, ever.
31:27Obviously, there's going to be a much more complicated answer.
31:29And a realistic one, I think.
31:30Because none of you said absolutely 2050, it's happening.
31:33It's going to take some work.
31:34Thank you to our panelists.
31:35Thank you all for joining us.
31:37And we'll see you next year at Vivitech.
31:39Thank you.
31:40Thank you.
31:40Thank you.
31:41Thank you.
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