- il y a 9 heures
Founder’s Story Building a Responsible Startup
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00:02Bonjour Thibaut, comment allez-vous ?
00:04Bonjour Olivier, je ne sais pas si je dois s'occuper.
00:06Oui, vous pouvez s'occuper.
00:08Bienvenue ici.
00:10Merci.
00:11Pour vous dire la vérité, Thibaut est l'un de mes préférés français.
00:17Je suis un ancien entrepreneur.
00:19J'ai fait le price-me-stop avant le back-market,
00:21mais vous étiez vraiment loin de nous.
00:23Nous avons commencé avec la économie de circulaire,
00:26permettant les gens de vendre leurs dispositifs, jeux vidéo,
00:30mais vous avez fait tout le reste,
00:32ce qui était nécessaire pour refurbire les produits et les dispositifs.
00:37C'est très inspirant.
00:38Nous sommes très heureux d'avoir vous sur le stage.
00:41Peut-être que nous pouvons commencer par partager,
00:45ou vous pouvez commencer par partager votre inspiration.
00:48Comment vous avez commencé ?
00:50Quel était votre vision initiale ?
00:52Je pense que c'était 10 ans.
00:54Oui, c'était 10 ans.
00:56Merci Olivier.
00:57Je ne me souviens pas d'essayer de l'introduction.
00:59Je me souviens, à ce moment-là,
01:01ma peau était rouge,
01:03et vous savez que le temps s'est passé.
01:05Vous ressemblez toujours bien.
01:07Alors, 10 ans, c'est un peu plus que ça.
01:11Donc, pourquoi le back-market ?
01:13Je pense que c'est un couple de choses.
01:16La première chose pour moi, c'est mon background de famille.
01:18Je pense que j'ai toujours été raised,
01:20et j'ai grown up avec l'idée d'entrepreneur, c'est cool,
01:24c'est fulfilling,
01:25c'est possible,
01:26c'est possible,
01:26c'est possible,
01:27c'est possible,
01:27c'est possible.
01:30C'est possible,
01:32c'est possible,
01:32Donc, je développe un désir
01:33d'être entrepreneur,
01:35et essayer de créer ma company,
01:37mais c'était un concept.
01:38Vous voulez que vos parents
01:39qui étaient entrepreneurs ?
01:41Mon père,
01:42mon père,
01:43mon père,
01:44Je suis allégé.
01:45Donc, vous voulez aussi
01:46prendre votre business ?
01:48C'est une bonne question,
01:50c'est possible.
01:51Non.
01:52Ok.
01:53Il y a d'autres raisons pour ça,
01:55mais je pense qu'on est designed
01:56pour différentes choses,
01:58et, you know,
01:59family business works sometimes.
02:01Bernard Arnault,
02:01for example.
02:02Ah, yes.
02:03LVMH,
02:04quite a nice success.
02:05Yes,
02:06quite a nice one,
02:07but I don't know if it works
02:08for everyone,
02:08but my route was different,
02:10so I wanted that,
02:11and I think it gave me
02:12the inner confidence,
02:13and, you know,
02:14like the,
02:16that I could actually try it,
02:17and being safe,
02:18so that was one ingredient.
02:20The second thing
02:21that was important for me
02:22is, you know,
02:22I've travelled quite a lot,
02:24and I spent some time in India,
02:26in Haiti,
02:27when I was doing my study,
02:29and so I discovered a lot of,
02:31you know,
02:33misery,
02:34things that were completely broken,
02:36and, uh,
02:37notably the waste.
02:38Uh,
02:39when I was in India,
02:40I like to,
02:41to quote this anecdote,
02:42you know,
02:42the first meal that I had in the train,
02:44I asked where I,
02:45where should I put my trash,
02:47and, uh,
02:47the guy just took my,
02:48my,
02:49my plate,
02:50and threw it through the window.
02:51Out of the window,
02:52I was like, wow,
02:53so this is one billion people every day,
02:55that does that.
02:56That was quite scary and shocking,
02:58but I, you know,
02:58I think it's also a big opportunity.
03:01I like to see opportunities,
03:02and everything that,
03:02that's not functional.
03:04And so,
03:05you know,
03:06creating a,
03:07uh,
03:07company that matters,
03:08and had a positive impact,
03:10was the thing I was looking for.
03:11But did,
03:12did you want to change the people behavior,
03:15or the,
03:16the,
03:16the manufacturers,
03:18uh,
03:18the way they behave?
03:19You know,
03:20because it's a question of,
03:21like,
03:21between supply and demand.
03:22who is,
03:23who is responsible,
03:24who is responsible,
03:24in the first place,
03:25of all those,
03:26uh,
03:26I think that's a big question,
03:29but so,
03:30I don't,
03:31I don't really care of,
03:32you know,
03:32where the,
03:33the solution comes from,
03:34but what I know,
03:35is that I love the topic of,
03:36you know, like,
03:37so,
03:37we're emitting 36 billion tons of CO2,
03:39as a species,
03:40every year.
03:41Uh,
03:41we have to get to net zero,
03:42no matter what,
03:43if we want our children to have a future,
03:45our grandchildren,
03:46etc.
03:46So,
03:46that's a big fight.
03:48Uh,
03:48and it's not just tech,
03:49tech is a piece of it,
03:51so,
03:51to give you some context,
03:5236 billion tons is global,
03:552 billion tons are emitted,
03:56because of the production of hardware devices,
03:58every year,
03:59so,
03:59roughly 4%.
04:00And so,
04:01the topic of,
04:02you know,
04:03getting those 2 billion tons,
04:04down to close to zero,
04:05I think is super exciting to me.
04:07And this is the problem,
04:08we're trying to solve,
04:09is back market.
04:10And we think,
04:11to enable that,
04:12we need to,
04:13you know,
04:13empower people to,
04:15basically have product that last longer,
04:17adopt refurbished product,
04:18instead of new product,
04:19uh,
04:20as much as possible,
04:21repair them,
04:22as much as possible.
04:24Uh,
04:24so it seems a bit basic,
04:26a bit obvious,
04:26but this is really the,
04:28um,
04:29the how,
04:30we are going to successfully lower,
04:32the production of new devices,
04:33I strongly believe.
04:35uh,
04:36it's going to take a bit of everyone,
04:37you know,
04:38manufacturer have to take their parts.
04:40Uh,
04:41I don't want to,
04:42to,
04:43to shame any names of brand,
04:45but,
04:45today,
04:46the product that are manufactured,
04:47are,
04:47are,
04:47are not very eco-designed.
04:49Uh,
04:50it's,
04:50it's very hard to,
04:52replace batteries,
04:53screens,
04:54et cetera,
04:54when they don't sell the spare parts,
04:56et cetera.
04:56because that's,
04:57you know,
04:57a back-end revolution that we need to force.
04:59We need to,
05:00first,
05:01as back market,
05:02help people,
05:03our ecosystem of refurbisher to,
05:05find the spare parts,
05:06find the right manuals,
05:07find the right way to,
05:08to fight the existing system.
05:10Uh,
05:11and we like to set back market,
05:12to sabotage the existing system.
05:14Uh,
05:15and two,
05:16you need to influence people,
05:17and give them no more reason to adopt a refurbished,
05:21uh,
05:21because,
05:2270% people still,
05:24uh,
05:24in France today,
05:25and,
05:25and a bit more globally,
05:26are adopting new products,
05:28you know,
05:28when they come to purchase tech devices.
05:30And,
05:31our job is to make,
05:32you know,
05:32to revert that trend entirely,
05:34and make,
05:34you know,
05:35those 70% as close to zero,
05:37and so,
05:37refurbished and circular economy,
05:39as big as possible.
05:42Great.
05:43Um,
05:44so,
05:44uh,
05:44you know,
05:45you know that,
05:45uh,
05:46now I'm partnering,
05:47I'm partnering with Marie Eklund,
05:49and Marie Eklund,
05:50so we,
05:50we launched this fund called 2050,
05:52which is a long-term fund,
05:53what we call an evergreen fund.
05:55And you didn't know,
05:56but, uh,
05:57initially,
05:57as you know,
05:58you know,
05:59of course,
05:59that Marie Eklund was one of the founder of Daphne,
06:01and Daphne invested in back market.
06:03And so that,
06:04you,
06:04you were really,
06:05and I'll tell you like sincerely,
06:07you were one of the inspiration for us,
06:09because you,
06:10you managed to mix,
06:11and to,
06:12um,
06:13to mix the,
06:14uh,
06:14non-financial impact that can be measured,
06:17and a real business model on the side.
06:20And so to,
06:21to have the perfect alignment between business,
06:23make money,
06:24and between,
06:25uh,
06:25be able to measure your impact,
06:27to assess your impact.
06:28and, uh,
06:29so I,
06:29I'd like to,
06:30that's my question,
06:31but just to tell you that,
06:33yeah,
06:33respect to that,
06:34because that's why I decided,
06:36thanks to you,
06:37and also Frederick Mazela,
06:38Blablacar,
06:39because you,
06:39you can really measure the,
06:40the, uh,
06:42greenhouse gas emission that you can avoid,
06:43thanks to ride sharing.
06:45And so there are,
06:46there were a few examples,
06:47and I,
06:47I,
06:48I thought in my mind,
06:50because I was quite successful as an entrepreneur,
06:51but not,
06:53uh,
06:53being able to measure the impact,
06:55as,
06:56as well as you do.
06:57And, uh,
06:58and yes,
06:58I,
06:58I thought that was,
06:59that was the right time.
07:00I thought,
07:00and we,
07:01we have back market,
07:03Tesla,
07:03of course,
07:04Blablacar,
07:05some of them,
07:05and you were one of them.
07:07And so I,
07:07I'd like to know,
07:08how did you,
07:09uh,
07:09how did you drive along this,
07:12uh,
07:12thin road on the border between impact and business,
07:15between long term and short term?
07:17How did you do that?
07:18So I think it's back to the beginning.
07:20We don't,
07:21we don't want to compromise value for values,
07:24right?
07:24And so I think when we created the model of back markets,
07:28uh,
07:29we do don't,
07:29we do don't want to be,
07:30you know,
07:30in conflict.
07:31I think if it's not designed at the heart of the model,
07:34you will,
07:35you know,
07:36you will end up very,
07:37very often being in conflict.
07:39Like,
07:39should I prioritize growth,
07:41uh,
07:41margins,
07:42uh,
07:43versus impact,
07:44uh,
07:45CO2 emissions,
07:46social impact,
07:47whatever it could be different.
07:48Uh,
07:48and we didn't want that,
07:49uh,
07:50because I think the tension is,
07:51uh,
07:52is,
07:52is a nightmare to solve.
07:54And so this is why at back markets,
07:55uh,
07:56we thought,
07:57okay,
07:57our job is to reduce the CO2 emissions,
08:00right?
08:00So when you choose a refurbished device over a new one,
08:03you save 92% of CO2 emission.
08:05Very concrete example,
08:07an iPhone requires three tons of extraction of raw materials to be produced.
08:11that creates 150 kilograms of CO2 emissions per devices.
08:18All right.
08:18If you choose when you are a consumer,
08:20when you choose to adopt and,
08:22uh,
08:23and buy an iPhone,
08:24you have the choice.
08:25Either you,
08:26you choose a new one.
08:27And so you will emit basically 150 kilograms or either you go for refurbished
08:32and you avoid 92%,
08:34um,
08:35of those.
08:35And I think this is,
08:37so,
08:38so basically each time we sell a product,
08:40we make GMV,
08:41we make revenue,
08:42we make margin,
08:43and we also avoid CO2 emissions.
08:45So we don't choose basically,
08:47uh,
08:48between the two of them.
08:49And I think it's,
08:50so it's easier.
08:51can you remind us,
08:51can you remind me,
08:52uh,
08:53what is the average,
08:54uh,
08:54before back market,
08:58I mean,
08:58or without back market?
09:00Uh,
09:01so the average,
09:02uh,
09:02I don't know in France or in the US.
09:04So it evolved a bit throughout time,
09:06but basically,
09:07uh,
09:07when we created back market,
09:08it was two years,
09:09two years.
09:10And,
09:10and are you able now to,
09:13to assess a product lifetime with back market?
09:15Uh,
09:16so to,
09:16to what extent you,
09:17do you,
09:18uh,
09:20extend,
09:20sorry,
09:20the,
09:21the product lifetime?
09:22So it would be,
09:23from two,
09:23two years to?
09:24No.
09:25So right now,
09:26what we're seeing in the studies,
09:27it's more closer to four years.
09:29So you doubled,
09:30uh,
09:30over the past 10 years.
09:31I think it would be,
09:33uh,
09:33it wouldn't be very honest to attribute a hundred percent of this success to us,
09:36because there's also been,
09:38you know,
09:38improvement in,
09:39uh,
09:41in the,
09:41the,
09:41the,
09:46but definitely,
09:47you know,
09:49very concretely,
09:50uh,
09:50tech product and an iPhone,
09:52they are,
09:53you know,
09:53built with battery,
09:54battery are built out of lithium.
09:56And so when you use product with lithium,
09:58like a Tesla,
09:59you mentioned,
10:00it drains,
10:01right?
10:02And so after cycles,
10:04uh,
10:04and after a lot of usage,
10:06you will need to,
10:07to change it if you want to keep using the product.
10:09So most of the,
10:11um,
10:13of the repair and the refurbishing,
10:15uh,
10:16process are around really changing those used spare parts,
10:19like the battery,
10:20the screens,
10:21in order to launch the product into another cycle,
10:23another life.
10:24Uh,
10:25but it's,
10:26it's,
10:26yeah,
10:26it's really key.
10:27very clear.
10:31okay.
10:32Uh,
10:33I was thinking just,
10:34so we are still,
10:35uh,
10:35nine minutes.
10:36So I,
10:37I'd like to understand,
10:38uh,
10:40how you manage your,
10:41your company,
10:43so you are a French,
10:45you,
10:45you launched on the French market,
10:46but now you are a very global company.
10:48Can you,
10:48can you tell us,
10:49uh,
10:49in how many countries?
10:50So we operate in 18 countries now.
10:5318 countries.
10:53And,
10:54and so just,
10:55I,
10:55I,
10:55I will leave you of course the floor,
10:57but,
10:58uh,
10:58well,
10:58what we'd like to understand is,
11:00uh,
11:00is it,
11:01uh,
11:02is it the,
11:02uh,
11:03the easiest way to become a global company if you want to have a real concrete impact?
11:07Because you,
11:07you are,
11:07you have,
11:08I think you have been navigating between a sort of conflict between,
11:12uh,
11:12being global and,
11:13uh,
11:13driving the impact.
11:15I mean,
11:16like it's always a conflict with both at all costs or not.
11:21Actually,
11:21I think they are not the,
11:22the opposite.
11:23You have different way to grow your company as a business and to grow your impact,
11:27because it's the same for us in our case.
11:29So it's about choosing the way you want to grow it.
11:32Uh,
11:33and for us,
11:34so we started in France with only smartphones 10 years ago,
11:37or close to 10 years ago.
11:38Now,
11:39uh,
11:39we thought,
11:40okay,
11:40the model is working.
11:41So let's try to export it somewhere else.
11:44Maybe it's a cultural thing.
11:46Maybe it's a French thing.
11:46You,
11:47you never know,
11:47uh,
11:48before you test,
11:49right?
11:49Which way did you choose first?
11:50Did you choose to,
11:51uh,
11:51diversify the number of categories,
11:53product categories,
11:54or did you choose the global expansion only on the one vertical like the mobile phones?
11:59We choose,
12:00um,
12:01international expansion over,
12:03uh,
12:03other categories because of one concrete reason.
12:07Um,
12:08trading programs works on phone thanks to carriers and telco and insurance companies.
12:13So we already had some supply basically to solve the problem as a platform of the chicken and the egg.
12:20You need product.
12:21You need a good density of product,
12:23good assortment,
12:24good prices and good quality.
12:25And that comes especially on back market with our algorithm through,
12:29uh,
12:30densification.
12:31It creates healthy competition to improve,
12:33uh,
12:33quality and prices.
12:34And so it meets,
12:36uh,
12:37more easily the demand and,
12:38uh,
12:39it attracts people attention,
12:40uh,
12:40because of this,
12:41uh,
12:42on other types of categories,
12:44those trading programs,
12:45like,
12:45you know,
12:46for,
12:46for people and still today the case,
12:48uh,
12:48I invite you to find an easy way to dispose of your old laptop.
12:52Maybe you have one in your drawer,
12:55in your company or in your office.
12:57Uh,
12:58maybe,
12:58you know,
12:59your coffee machine doesn't work anymore.
13:00What did you do with it?
13:01Like,
13:01try to remember what did you do with it?
13:03It's not very easy.
13:05You don't have like a single go to app to just like,
13:08you know,
13:08either sell it,
13:09uh,
13:10very easily without bargaining with,
13:12uh,
13:12hundreds of individuals or either send it to the recycling facility to make good,
13:17uh,
13:17the greater use of it basically.
13:19And so,
13:20uh,
13:21as the supply was there on smartphone,
13:22we decided to go for international first because it was the easiest way for us,
13:28uh,
13:28to grow.
13:29And we started also to,
13:31to think,
13:31okay,
13:32maybe we can be a success in France,
13:33but it's a global problem.
13:35So can we,
13:36can we be that global brand basically to solve,
13:39you know,
13:39to participate and to enable people to,
13:41to switch from buying new to buying refurbished outside of France.
13:45So that's,
13:46that's been a decision at the time.
13:47We could have chosen,
13:48uh,
13:48another one,
13:49but,
13:49uh,
13:50I'm glad we did it actually.
13:51Great.
13:52Thank you for sharing and being,
13:55uh,
13:55really straightforward.
13:57Uh,
13:57so,
13:57uh,
13:58I like,
13:59obviously you are very successful entrepreneurs,
14:01which was,
14:02I guess it was not obvious at the beginning,
14:04but,
14:05uh,
14:05you did it.
14:06and,
14:07uh,
14:07I think that there are a lot of,
14:08uh,
14:09young entrepreneurs or wannabe entrepreneurs who maybe you would like to hear.
14:13It's a very common question,
14:14but it's useful to share what you,
14:17what kind,
14:17what piece of advice you will,
14:19you will,
14:19uh,
14:21give to a young entrepreneurs from now on,
14:23especially if this guy,
14:24that that's very part of the DNA of the new generation.
14:27They want to mix and find the right balance between impact and,
14:31uh,
14:31and making money.
14:32Well,
14:33very,
14:34uh,
14:35but,
14:35uh,
14:35try to find the business that matters.
14:38So what has an impact?
14:40So you don't have to choose after when it works.
14:42Like,
14:42how can I add impact to my business?
14:44It will be tougher.
14:44You mean it should be like impact by design,
14:46by,
14:47uh,
14:47by construction from scratch.
14:48Yes.
14:49Please try to solve,
14:50uh,
14:50real problems.
14:51Yes.
14:52Rather than creating a need to answer to laziness or some,
14:55you know,
14:56like,
14:56uh,
14:58it's easy to create the stuff that people don't want to do,
15:01but,
15:01uh,
15:01that are not very useful.
15:04Uh,
15:04so that would be my first ask more,
15:06uh,
15:09So a big pay point to solve,
15:12but a big market.
15:13I think,
15:14uh,
15:14you know,
15:14you have tons of them.
15:15Like climate change is one of them,
15:16but I also saw like,
15:17you know,
15:18like,
15:18uh,
15:18in,
15:19uh,
15:19in medical spaces.
15:21Uh,
15:21there is so much of it,
15:22uh,
15:22social,
15:23uh,
15:24you don't have to go too far to see that there are some issues to be solved.
15:26So,
15:27I think if you solve a real problem and,
15:29uh,
15:29you,
15:29you manage to find a way to make it a business with a proper avenue,
15:33then,
15:34it's,
15:35it's worth,
15:35uh,
15:35knocking your head at the problem and,
15:37uh,
15:37and pushing.
15:38Um,
15:39second thing is,
15:41acknowledge that,
15:42uh,
15:43uh,
15:43you are yourself with your strength and your weaknesses.
15:46Uh,
15:47so try to surround you with people that,
15:49uh,
15:50have,
15:50uh,
15:51strengths that actually answer to your weaknesses that are much better than you in,
15:55uh,
15:56other things.
15:56For example,
15:57I'm,
15:57I'm pretty bad in marketing.
15:59Do you mean,
15:59uh,
15:59hiring people also,
16:00uh,
16:01being,
16:02partnering and,
16:03and sharing the,
16:03the,
16:04the,
16:09you know,
16:09you don't have a lot of money and,
16:11uh,
16:11so you don't have much of the choice.
16:12So you need to choose your co-founder eventually,
16:14uh,
16:15and try to find some,
16:16someone,
16:17my advice would be to find someone that has a different background than you.
16:20Like,
16:20it's,
16:20it's always more,
16:21it fits,
16:22it feels more easy to find a background.
16:24What do you,
16:24sorry,
16:25I mean,
16:25this thing because I think it's a very key point.
16:28do you mean like complimentary art skills or is it also a question of,
16:32uh,
16:32soft skills or the way they behave,
16:34uh,
16:35facing difficulties or maybe like,
16:37is it like psychological character?
16:38different kind of,
16:40uh,
16:40I'd say both.
16:41But for example,
16:42too far back market,
16:44I'm,
16:44I'm more the business guy.
16:45You know,
16:46I use,
16:46you know,
16:46I'm used to work with,
16:47uh,
16:48the refurbishers,
16:48the businesses,
16:49you know,
16:50understand their needs,
16:50their PNL problems,
16:52et cetera.
16:52That's more natural to me.
16:54Uh,
16:54Vietnam,
16:55my co-founder was really the brand guy,
16:57like trying to figure out how can,
16:58how can we advertise for this value prop to people?
17:01What are the level of services that are needed in order to,
17:04you know,
17:04shift people away from new to refurbished?
17:06to communication,
17:08like,
17:08uh,
17:09client wired,
17:10et cetera.
17:12content,
17:12the third co-founder is,
17:13uh,
17:13the CTO co-founder CTO.
17:15Uh,
17:16he was the tech guy.
17:17So it was like,
17:18like great ideas guys,
17:19but how do we do it?
17:20And here are the constraints,
17:22et cetera.
17:22So how,
17:23how did you meet with them?
17:24How did you find,
17:25because it's a,
17:25that's a very common question.
17:27I've,
17:27I've been asked,
17:28like,
17:29can you help me to find my co-founders?
17:31I want to,
17:31to launch a business,
17:32but I can not do it on my own.
17:34Uh,
17:34so how do you find those guys?
17:36I guess I was lucky.
17:38Like,
17:38so the content,
17:39the CTO co-founder CTO,
17:41uh,
17:41I happened to,
17:42uh,
17:43work with them for the first three years,
17:45of my life before creating back market.
17:47We met,
17:48uh,
17:49we were interns first,
17:50and then we had the long term contract.
17:51Okay.
17:52So we worked in,
17:53uh,
17:53in which company?
17:54Neteven.
17:55Okay.
17:59great time.
18:00Amazing school.
18:01So thank,
18:02thank you to the co-founders of Neteven,
18:04if you are listening.
18:05Uh,
18:06but,
18:06uh,
18:07this is how we met with Q.
18:08And then,
18:09uh,
18:10Vinny,
18:10I met him through a friend because,
18:12uh,
18:13I couldn't sleep.
18:14You know,
18:15uh,
18:16for the platform.
18:17I was trying to,
18:18I don't have a name.
18:20You mean the brand name?
18:21Well,
18:21brand name,
18:23Did you have another one before back market?
18:26Uh,
18:27yeah,
18:28that's a good anecdote.
18:29So three weeks before launching,
18:31our name was young,
18:33uh,
18:33J U N G.
18:34Uh,
18:35in German,
18:36it means use.
18:39Uh,
18:39young,
18:40young.
18:40Yes,
18:41exactly.
18:41young.
18:42And so we,
18:43we worked on that for,
18:45uh,
18:45on that project.
18:46And it's still the name of the corporate company of a back market,
18:49uh,
18:50for six months.
18:51Like, uh,
18:51it's everywhere in the code,
18:53et cetera.
18:54but three months,
18:55three,
18:55three,
18:56uh,
18:56three weeks before launching,
18:57we,
18:57we happened to find an internet,
19:00some random guys selling,
19:01uh,
19:02home appliances in,
19:03uh,
19:03Alsace.
19:04So Easter France,
19:05uh,
19:06and the name of the shop was young.
19:09And so we asked to allow,
19:10uh,
19:11is it a problem?
19:12Uh,
19:13we are going to sell smartphones,
19:14but way more.
19:15We have a mission to,
19:16you know,
19:16be the one stop shop for refurbished devices,
19:18et cetera.
19:19And he said,
19:19yes,
19:20you're going to lose if he sues you.
19:21And if it works,
19:22then,
19:22uh,
19:22because he was first,
19:24he was first and intellectual property.
19:26He had the,
19:26the,
19:26the right.
19:27So it was a legal issue.
19:28Yes.
19:28And so,
19:29back market did the job overnight.
19:32Vini,
19:33all the credits goes to him to change everything,
19:36changed everything,
19:37everything.
19:38It,
19:39it,
19:39it will be better.
19:40It's self-explanatory,
19:41blah,
19:41blah,
19:42blah.
19:42But we didn't have the choice.
19:43So this is how back market became back market.
19:45Great.
19:46I think time is out.
19:47It's written on the,
19:47on the timer.
19:49Thank you very much guys.
19:50And thank you very much to you,
19:52Thibaut.
19:52You are still,
19:53uh,
19:53leading the,
19:53leading the world on this,
19:55uh,
19:55on this topic.
19:57Thank you.
19:57Thank you for inspiring me.
20:00Thank you so much,
20:01Olivier.
20:02Thank you so much,
20:02Thibaut.
20:03That was a fantastic founder story.
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