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00:00C'est un grand, grand honneur d'avoir vous sur la scène, et je vous remercie beaucoup, parce que je
00:06sais que vous êtes extrêmement busy, vous étiez récemment en Abu Dhabi, et vous avez accepté de partager vos vies
00:16avec l'audience, et nous sommes connectés avec le monde.
00:20Merci beaucoup, merci beaucoup pour avoir accepté de partager vos vies, et nous allons parler du climat, et comment la
00:29technologie et les start-ups peuvent aider, mais je ne peux pas résister à la question, quand vous voyez le
00:39monde aujourd'hui, et le state du monde, peut-être que vous pouvez nous donner un petit peu de votre
00:47opinion,
00:47on how the world is going, and what you think about that situation today.
00:57Well, Maurice, thank you very much, thank you, it's great to be here with everybody, thank you.
01:02A lot of fascinating things happening, and there's a lot of disruption sitting in the audience here, and I appreciate
01:12what everybody is up to,
01:14because this is a time of absolutely extraordinary transformation, and the challenge for humanity globally has perhaps never been as
01:25collectively important as it is right now.
01:29And unfortunately, just as the world is confronting a massive number of choices that will have profound implications going forward,
01:42we also are seeing an absence of global leadership and capacity and tortured politics in many, many countries, including my
01:56own.
01:56There are too many demagogues, there is too much exploitation and avoidance of real responsibility, real decision-making,
02:11and I think the globe is suffering for that, even as many of you in this audience in other parts
02:19of the world
02:19are pushing the discovery of new technology, new capacity.
02:26We are living in a moment that is literally the most significant transformation of economies on a global basis since
02:35the Industrial Revolution, no question.
02:38And this is bigger. AI will transform everything.
02:43And nobody can sit in front of you and tell you every way in which that's going to unfold or
02:49happen.
02:50Obviously, giant corporations, Microsoft, Google, a whole bunch of them are chasing.
02:58I was just in Silicon Valley. I was at Stanford.
03:02And, you know, it's changing daily. I mean, there's a massive amount of things happening.
03:07But other things are not happening that are extremely difficult to deal with in the context of governance.
03:15And you look at third world, global south, you know, zero, what, there are 48 sub-Saharan African states that
03:25equal 0.55% of all of the emissions of the world.
03:30And then you have 20 countries that equal 80% of all the emissions in the world.
03:36And, you know, just any fundamental analysis will tell you that is a political, social, economic equation that is not
03:47sustainable.
03:48And yet we have big industries, among them oil and gas, who are behaving as if somehow Dubai didn't happen.
03:59That there was not a collective decision to transition away from fossil fuel.
04:04And there's a massive amount of investment taking place now to meet growing demand for electricity.
04:11And electricity is the most important single element in this transformation now.
04:16So, look, I can find, I can, you can easily make the argument of the glass half full, the glass
04:23half empty.
04:24All in all, I have optimism because of much of what many of you are doing.
04:31We will break through in some technologies.
04:34I can't tell you which one yet.
04:36Hydrogen is proving disappointing and slower.
04:40AI, obviously, is moving faster.
04:43Batteries are growing in capacity, but not yet where we need them.
04:46Storage is still a big issue.
04:48I mean, there's a lot to talk about here.
04:50But I do feel that if you compare where we are today to where we are a century ago, far
05:00fewer people are dying of violence around the world, despite Gaza, despite Ukraine.
05:06We have the ability to cure diseases we never thought we would cure.
05:11If you're a woman in the world today and you are pregnant, you are 50% more likely to give
05:17birth to a child that will live and be fed and go to school than we were before.
05:21We have rights that are now on the table and being fought for publicly all around the world.
05:26So I see a world that's exciting, filled with promise, if we will push our political systems to be far
05:39more responsive than they have been and to be less in the clutches of the most powerful interests.
05:45And look, I'm a capitalist. I believe we need to go out.
05:49Money will chase many of these solutions and we'll win in the end.
05:56And that's OK as long as it's enlightened and not robber baron.
06:01And there's frankly too much just craziness going on, which is leaving a lot of people feeling dispossessed, angry.
06:11They feel the failure of their governance and that's making it even far more difficult to get the kind of
06:17decision making that we need.
06:20You are at VivaTech and you will see that all the startups which are creating the new technology are here.
06:30AI is here. 40% of the conversation is about AI.
06:34But I would like to go back a little bit to the Accord de Paris where you played a very
06:41crucial role.
06:42Then there has been a new government in the US who has stopped all the effort and you had to
06:49repair that.
06:51And then there has been the Dubai, the COP 28 in Dubai.
06:56Everyone was thinking that at the COP 28, because it was in Dubai, nothing will happen.
07:04And to the surprise of the world, not only things happened, but also you have been able to bring China
07:11and India to the table.
07:13So maybe you can tell us how this happened and how much do you hope that this will be executed?
07:22Well, let me let me be very clear to everybody here.
07:28The problem that we face globally in terms of the climate crisis, which is real and growing by the day,
07:36is not complicated.
07:39I mean, I think of all the others, some of the challenges that we face.
07:43But of all things, I mean, last summer, it was 70 degrees Fahrenheit above normal in the Arctic.
07:51It was 100 degrees Fahrenheit above normal in the Antarctic.
07:54This January and February are the two hottest Februaries and Januaries in human history.
08:01We see tornadoes, we see floods, we see Dubai flooded with water.
08:06We see massive impacts on fires, floods, I mean, mudslides, you name it, all around the world.
08:15And if you're an asset manager, you really ought to, in furtherance of your fiduciary responsibilities, be stopping and saying,
08:26what is going to happen to the assets we're managing?
08:28The sea level rise is higher than was predicted.
08:32The heat, there will be 50 degrees centigrade places this summer.
08:36Why? For one simple reason.
08:42The way we human beings choose to heat, light, move our vehicles, it's all about power, production,
08:51either for heating or for energy to do industry, you name it.
08:56We burn fossil fuel without capturing the emissions.
09:01We have two choices, literally, if you think cleverly, I mean, just think basically about this problem.
09:10We either capture all the emissions or we don't make them in the first place.
09:16Those are the two choices.
09:19And if we get to 2030, having built out another 40 years and 30 years of gas infrastructure,
09:29we have a problem unless we are capturing those emissions.
09:33So we're at a very critical moment. We really are.
09:37I believe gas is part of the transition. It is.
09:42Because gas, if you're replacing coal or oil, is immediately a 30 to 50 percent reduction in emissions.
09:51But if you go beyond that to 2030, what happens then if you're not able to capture those emissions as
10:00effectively as you want?
10:01Now, Patrick Puyane is going to come up here and hopefully, hopefully we can capture them.
10:07The answer to that is not yet clear.
10:11There are many, many people who are technically much more proficient than I am who tell me,
10:16no way we're going to capture it all. And by the way, there's no way we're going to build the
10:20infrastructure to be able to store it somewhere
10:22because the not-in-my-backyard syndrome, which we're already seeing with respect to wind and turbine and solar,
10:29that is going to get in the way of the permitting and decision-making necessary to move at the speed
10:35you need to move.
10:36Moreover, the IEA tells us that if we were to deploy the existing technologies, hydro, geothermal, wind, solar,
10:49at the rate necessary, we could achieve the 43 to 50 percent reduction necessary by 2030 with the technology we
10:58have today.
11:00And guess what? We're not choosing to do that. We're not deploying at that rate.
11:06So right now, we're looking, instead of keeping 1.5 degrees as the limit of the Earth's warming,
11:12we are right now, as we sit here today, heading to about 2.5 degrees.
11:20Now, after Paris, we were headed to 4 degrees, 3.7 to 4 degrees.
11:27So you can make the argument, okay, we've made a lot of progress between now and when we did Paris,
11:34and with Dubai, we have made it crystal clear what the mandate is.
11:41Dubai said, almost 200 nations, we have to transition away from fossil fuel so as to achieve net zero 2050,
11:54accelerating in this decade in a way that is fair and orderly and equitable according to the science.
12:05According to the science means we still have to try to keep 1.5 degrees.
12:10And unfortunately, folks, as we sit here today, we're going to blow through 1.5 degrees.
12:16That's the track we're on. And I will tell you because, you know, I was in Houston, Texas for the
12:23series meeting,
12:25the big oil and gas industry meeting this year, and it was as if Dubai hadn't happened.
12:30People were talking about endless sort of more production, and there was a triumphalism to some degree in the attitude
12:39of some people there,
12:40that we're just going to keep on pumping and it doesn't make a difference.
12:45So we have a real crisis of governance here, a crisis of common sense, a crisis of fundamental choices that
12:57are very obvious,
12:58given the simplicity of the problem that I described.
13:01You either don't make the emissions or you capture them.
13:05Now, I hope we can capture them.
13:07But there are other things we need to do.
13:10We have nuclear power.
13:12France has a huge reliance on nuclear power, and it has for a long, long time.
13:17I was in the Navy for four years.
13:20I didn't operate on a nuclear ship, but I operated with nuclear ships.
13:25We have several hundred. We have a bunch of nuclear ships around the world.
13:30We have never lost a sailor. We've never had a spill. We've never had an accident.
13:35We have small nuclear plants that operate in a mobile way, and yet we're confounded for the moment still about
13:44small modular reactors,
13:46which would make an enormous difference.
13:49And for all of you, AI, we obviously have an enormous challenge with the increased demand for electricity.
13:56If we're going to build out these data centers, they're the largest drawers of power in the world.
14:04That will mean an increase in power need, and we're not producing that increase sufficiently.
14:09So right now, gas will be the choice.
14:13And believe me, the economic forces will continue to move.
14:18We will build them out. And if we don't have a means of dealing with those emissions, we're just contributing
14:24to the larger problem.
14:26So we have to come together, I think, and work on this option of small modular nuclear, which we support
14:39very strongly.
14:40The Biden administration supports it. I know there are still some questions in people's minds about proliferation, about safety, about
14:48waste.
14:50But I'm convinced that the newer technology has the ability to be able to address most of those issues.
14:56And by the way, if we don't, you know, which risk is greater?
15:01That we have tens of millions of people in Africa where food production has collapsed,
15:07where people aren't able to live, where you can't work outdoors in 50 degree temperature.
15:13And so you've got tens of millions of people banging on the European door saying,
15:17we want in. Where's our equity?
15:21And if we're going to not have a total chaos with respect to global governance challenges of the UN and
15:29elsewhere,
15:30we have to find a way to be more equitable in the way we're building out the electricity and power
15:36of the future.
15:37And to me, that means looking at everything right now.
15:41All of the above have to be on the table.
15:44And one or the other, Fusion even. Fusion, there's enormous, there's some progress, but it's not going to be ready,
15:52I am told,
15:53in time to deal with the 2030 challenge and also 2035 challenges we've set up.
16:00You mentioned SMR, and I think that France is also committed to SMR.
16:05But you mentioned also Patrick Pouyanet.
16:11Patrick Pouyanet is chairman and CEO of Total Energy.
16:16He's probably one of the petroleum companies which is really doing a lot for transforming and transitioning to all renewable
16:29energies.
16:31And I'm asking Patrick to join us.
16:35I think the conversation will be extremely interesting.
16:44Because Patrick is probably the one who is really making history when you look at the oil companies and the
16:55energy companies.
16:56Maybe, Patrick, you can start by reacting to what John Kerry has said.
17:01And when you look at the state of the world, what we need to do, the enormous task which is
17:09ahead of us,
17:11maybe there are things on which you can react and particularly what AI can do and what Total Energy also
17:18can do.
17:19Yeah, I was just first very honored to share this podium with Secretary Kerry.
17:26It happens that we met together already, so I had the opportunity to present our strategy.
17:31I think I have three, when I was listening to your Secretary Kerry, I think three points I wanted to
17:39raise.
17:39First, the 21st century will be the century of electricity.
17:44This is the energy to decarbonize.
17:47We need to build a lot of electricity capacities, renewables of course, but everybody in the room, you want electricity
17:5524-7.
17:56And to get it, you need to marry renewable, because it's intermittent, with flexible assets, gas plants for the time
18:04being, batteries tomorrow, hydro, but that's fundamental.
18:08We need to invest heavily in electricity if we want to decarbonize the world.
18:12That's the first message.
18:13I was happy to hear, and Secretary Kerry, about the fact that gas today is part of the solution.
18:20Not an ultimate solution, for sure not, but because it's flexible, because you can marry the intermittent, and because one
18:27of the fights is to stop coal and to replace it by gas.
18:30We have a risk to see in many emerging countries a mix of coal and renewables.
18:35It's not too good for the climate.
18:36Third point, but gas necessitates, and third point I would say, the agenda of COP28 in Dubai is excellent.
18:45I think, you don't imagine the word, the work which has been done between Sultan Al-Jabbar, Dr. Sultan Al
18:52-Jabbar was the chair of the COP with Secretary Kerry together, meeting all the Olinga CEOs in Abu Dhabi, convincing
19:02us to engage.
19:03Now we need to put action, but the agenda of COP28, which is tripling renewables, doubling efficiency, avoiding tripling renewables,
19:11and zero methane, is exactly the right one.
19:15So now it's up to us, all of us, to act.
19:17Total Energy is doing it.
19:19We are slashing down the methane emissions.
19:21We are investing in renewables, five billion per year, in the U.S., by the way, quite a lot.
19:28In India, one of the things we are doing today, we are building in the Kuch desert in the northwest
19:35of India, 30 gigawatts, 30 gigawatts, 500 square kilometers of solar panels and windmills.
19:45It will provide 30 gigawatts.
19:49It's 20 billion dollars.
19:51Again, 500 square kilometers.
19:52Don't imagine what it is.
19:54It's a giant field, but that's the way to contribute to India mix, to avoid India to continue to burn
20:00a lot of coal.
20:01Here's the challenge.
20:03Am I allowed to?
20:04Absolutely.
20:05Here's the challenge.
20:07And I appreciate what you said about gas being part of the solution.
20:14But unfortunately, not all of the large providers are doing the things that you are doing, that Total is doing,
20:25or Equinor, any.
20:28There are a group of companies, but we can count them on two hands, that are engaged.
20:34The rest of the industry, I see advertisements on television in the United States about the green fuel of the
20:42future.
20:43Green gas.
20:45I'm telling you, there are green gas ads out there, and we're not moving fast up.
20:52Here's the challenge.
20:54Every one of you, every day, you face a challenge.
20:56You have to pay a bill in a certain period of time.
20:58You have to get your children into school, whatever it is.
21:01We all have problems.
21:03Life problems, and then there are the sort of, you know, problems that come at you in terms of public
21:08policy and so forth.
21:11Decisions have to be made.
21:14We're not making those decisions collectively.
21:16We are not deploying at the rate that Paris told us, Glasgow told us, Sharm El Sheikh told us, and
21:24now Dubai.
21:25And yet, people are acting as if there isn't the sort of human crisis that we face.
21:31Why can't we move faster?
21:33That's why, in Dubai, we took the initiative to put a coalition, 50 companies.
21:39Of course, we, I'm one of the three champions with Dr. Sultan and the CEO of Alamco.
21:46The objective is to be the leaders and to make all these companies running with us.
21:50We don't want any hidden passengers.
21:53They have all signed a paper, which is to aim for zero methane emission by 2030, to stop flaring by
22:002030.
22:01I can tell you, we are organizing ourselves.
22:03Seriously.
22:04It's true, but everybody does not have the same, I would say, vision strategically.
22:10I'm convinced that our future is in the electricity, in the transition.
22:15But I want my successors to be proud, not to have a problem with the future stranded assets.
22:21That's clear.
22:22And by the way, all employees are willing to do that.
22:25You know, the motivation of Total Moving, Total Energy, the first motivation was the employees.
22:30They are proud to work in it, because we are in the transition.
22:33So we need to engage everybody.
22:35Well, that's true.
22:35And that's where we make efforts, but honestly, it's true, the collective actions.
22:40The point to answer to your question, AI and energy, there is a common point.
22:44Electricity is digital.
22:47Electrons are native to electricity.
22:49So to make progress in electricity, the digital is just fundamental.
22:54So in Total Energy today, we have an incubator of startups dedicated to electricity in order to leverage all these
23:02digital technologies to a smarter system,
23:05to in fact lower the cost of producing, lower optimizing renewable.
23:09So it's just fundamental.
23:11There is a strong link between the digital revolution and the energy transition, because, again, all these new energies are
23:18more complex to manage.
23:19You cannot store electricity.
23:21That's a difficulty.
23:22So that's why I'm here, by the way.
23:24I mean, VevaTech, because fundamentally, here you can find innovators, descriptors, who will help in the transition.
23:31So we need everybody to work together.
23:33That is also the reason why we are extremely proud to have you.
23:37Can you tell us concretely what Total Energy is doing in order to change the balance?
23:43Well, you know, today we invest 35% of our investments.
23:50So we are investing in oil and gas, 20 billion.
23:53Today it's 12.
23:54So minus 40.
23:56And we have accelerated in low carbon.
23:58It was 2 million in 21, 3 million in 22, 4 million in 23, 5 million in 24 in renewable.
24:04We invest.
24:05We have 30, we have today 24 gigawatts of capacities.
24:09The aim is 100 gigawatts by the end of the decade.
24:11So it's serious.
24:12It's a matter.
24:13And again, it's because, and the objective is to have electricity is on new energy.
24:18And to do that, we need to innovate.
24:20It's an energy.
24:21But at the same level for me, and you know, my time, in fact, I'm spending half of my time
24:28on the electricity business, on this diversification.
24:31Less on oil and gas, because it's running.
24:33So I look to the way to accelerate this transition.
24:37But again, if we don't do it, we will do it.
24:40We are blessed with a lot of revenues, a lot of profits.
24:43So with the crisis of energy, I had more profits.
24:46So we accelerated in that field.
24:48It's never enough for some people, but I can tell you, it's a lot of projects around the world.
24:53And that's the way to engage.
24:55So I would like to convince my peers to also engage in the transition in that way.
24:59John, when you listen to Patrick, do you think that this is the right example?
25:08And do you think that the private sector should follow that example?
25:13Well, absolutely.
25:15I mean, Patrick has been a partner together with another small group.
25:22And he's been very constructive and I think has taken some backlash for that, as have other CEOs who are
25:33shareholders and sometimes Wall Street together sort of put the pressure on them to back off and move in a
25:44different direction.
25:44We saw BP got pressured that way and sort of pulled back.
25:49Some companies now are getting beaten up.
25:53ESG and wokeism, so to speak, are demanding a price from some people so they backed off a little.
26:02The point is this.
26:06We have nothing that we're doing that I'm proposing, nothing that I'm proposing is ideology.
26:14It's not politics.
26:17Everything that the Biden administration has done, the IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act, the money that we've been putting into
26:26tax incentives, etc.
26:28All of that comes from decisions that are clear on the basis of mathematics, physics, science, some biology, some chemistry.
26:40But the mathematics are telling us, if you don't do, you know, this by such and such a time, here
26:48are the consequences.
26:49And I'm saying that notwithstanding those consequences and the clarity of what we need to be doing, we're not.
26:56We're not moving fast enough.
26:58You agree.
26:59And so, you know, look at China.
27:03China, we have a lot of problems, obviously.
27:05There are different pieces of China's, you know, intellectual property theft or China's access to the market, you know, and
27:14a whole bunch of things.
27:15You know, Hong Kong, South China Sea.
27:17But China has now, which is 30% of all the world's emissions, has seized this issue.
27:26And China is building and deploying more renewables than all the rest of the world put together.
27:34They're probably going to be at about 3,000, 3,500 gigawatts of power by 2030.
27:42Where will we be?
27:43Where will the rest of the world be, including my own country?
27:46Nowhere near that.
27:47So we have to get together and start to decide how do we tackle this very real, scientifically agreed upon
27:59challenge to humanity.
28:01It's a global challenge.
28:03And we're not behaving as if we have to win this war, so to speak.
28:07Now, I think there are all kinds of things we could do that are absolutely doable within the context of
28:13democracy, within the context of capitalism, and go out and put your money down, try to make a profit, have
28:21a winning product, and change the world.
28:24We can do that.
28:25And I'm glad that big companies like, you know, the biggest in the world are really fighting this and trying
28:32to come at this.
28:33Google and Microsoft and so forth.
28:35But we have to do a better job of organizing our efforts.
28:39We really do.
28:40Do you not agree?
28:41Yeah, yeah.
28:41I can only agree, by the way, because also I agree with your pragmatic approach.
28:45We need to be pragmatic to transition.
28:47It will not have an overnight.
28:49So, investing heavily in renewables, marrying them with gas for the time being before we can escape.
28:56Exactly.
28:56That's what I like.
28:57Pragmatism.
28:58Because otherwise, if we think we can do it overnight, we do nothing.
29:01And there is another point, which is an important transition, if I can make a challenge a little, Secretary Kerry,
29:07is the part, because we speak about a lot of the offer.
29:10We need to offer low carbon energies.
29:13But the offer is also going with the demand.
29:16We need to change the demand patterns.
29:18The society to accept to move.
29:21And today, there is a big challenge.
29:22We observe it in Europe.
29:23We want to move from fuel cars to EVs.
29:26But that is a little more expensive.
29:29And that's the challenge today.
29:30You begin to see the customers are not rushing as expected by the governments.
29:34So, you cannot just put constraints, the rules.
29:38You need also to go together, to convince people to engage.
29:43And I think that's a fundamental part of the equation.
29:45The transition will go with the society.
29:47We will not impose it only.
29:50And society means lowering the cost, of course, of the energies, of the new energies, but also finding a way
29:57to help them to go to this transition.
29:59And I think what's important to underscore is, we're not talking about sacrifice, forced sacrifice.
30:08We're not talking about people having to give up a quality of life.
30:12We're talking about a better quality of life on the other side of the transition.
30:16Last year in the United States, we cut emissions by 4.1%.
30:20But we grew our economy by 2.5% at the same time.
30:25The job growth in the clean energy sector was 3.8% to 3.9%.
30:31The job growth in old fuel was about 3%.
30:37Now we know that in venture capital, we're at about $2 trillion.
30:42We have to get to about $4 trillion a year.
30:45We're at about $2 trillion now, which is double the amount that's going into fossil fuel.
30:51So, my friends, we should feel optimistic about this reality.
30:56This transition is absolutely going to happen.
31:01And the election of any president in my country, or finance minister, or anybody else,
31:07is not going to change what the marketplace has already decided to do.
31:13The marketplace understands this transition is already happening.
31:18It has to happen. We have to speed it up.
31:22And I think that's the one thing that we should feel most confident about.
31:26We will get to a low-carbon, no-carbon economy. We will.
31:32The only question is, will we get there in time to avoid the worst consequences of the crisis?
31:38That's it.
31:39John, you mean that you're optimistic?
31:41I am optimistic, yeah.
31:42How do you get China and India to cope with the objectives?
31:48I negotiated with China for three years as envoy.
31:52I worked with them as Secretary of State.
31:55And China, I've seen a transition in China.
31:58And we agreed at Sunnylands in California.
32:01We spent four days together negotiating.
32:04China agreed they will include all greenhouse gases in their next announcement of NDC.
32:11China agreed they will accelerate the deployment of renewable in this.
32:16And they're doing it.
32:17They're already doing it faster than we are.
32:20And so I'm not here to argue China's cause, but I'm saying to you, you know,
32:26China will move from a 2060 date for their neutrality on carbon to probably somewhere around 2040 now or so,
32:34because of this vast deployment of renewable energy.
32:38And much of the coal that they're building will operate at the lowest capacity and ultimately, hopefully, not be needed
32:46and not come online.
32:48So I think we're on a track, folks, where we still can win the battle, but just not the way
32:55we're quite behaving today.
32:57We need to do all the things that we're doing faster, bring it to scale faster, put more money into
33:03the marketplace for research and development,
33:06do more consortia, universities, companies, bring people together, and we can win the battle.
33:13I would say I'm very optimistic as well.
33:16First, because climate is a field where the U.S. and China cooperate, which is a good signal, and the
33:22world progresses when we cooperate.
33:23Second, because when I visited all this Viva Tech style, I see many innovators and distributors will bring us solutions.
33:30So let's engage together and we'll find the solutions.
33:33John, one word of conclusion?
33:36I don't have one word.
33:38Thank you very much. Thank you, John. Thank you, Patrick.
33:42Two words. Just do it.
33:44Two words.
33:45Thank you.
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