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Future Building Blocks Low-Carbon Buildings
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00:00Hello, everybody. Thank you very much for being here with us today.
00:05I'm very happy to have this 100% female panel about future building blocks, low-carvel buildings.
00:14So I have with me Marie-Louise Godineau.
00:17Hi, you're Senior Vice President, Operational Excellence, Innovation and Procremitator, Bouygues.
00:24Thank you for being here.
00:25And Sine Conquebro, Global Design Director, Urbanism, at Henning Larsen Partner.
00:34So I want you just to begin with this panel.
00:37A few figures, even if I'm sure a lot of people know them.
00:43But you know that the building sector represents 40% of global emissions.
00:48And of those emissions, approximately 70% are produced by building operations.
00:54while the remaining 30% comes from construction.
00:59So tech, of course, can help with that.
01:01And we're going to talk about that.
01:03So my first question will be, not a gentle one,
01:08but can we say that the building sector has not yet gone through this famous digital revolution?
01:16Marie-Louise.
01:17I think that the building sector has made good progress in terms of digital transformation.
01:25It's true that some years ago, this sector was singled out to be one of the least digitalized sectors in
01:33the world.
01:34But now I think that with the widely usage of BIM model in the design phase,
01:43or IoT revolution in the construction phase, or digital twin,
01:48I think that the sector and the digitalization is spreading out in all the phases of the construction process now.
01:58And for you, Sine?
02:00I think it's a very, very good question.
02:03And I think for us, in the architectural part of the value chain,
02:10I think digitalization has been part of our evolution for a long time.
02:15But I completely agree that it has been rated the second lowest in innovation and digitalization.
02:26So somehow we are used to be working in 3D and BIM models,
02:36but how do we innovate and solve the issues related to the industry problem?
02:44I think that is not yet solved.
02:46Not yet.
02:48And why is it so late compared to other industries?
02:53I think there are many, many things who are preventing this digital transformation to occur in the construction sector.
03:04If I can elaborate on that.
03:07The first one is we often work on prototypes.
03:11So when you have one prototype, it is difficult to replicate.
03:14And when you want to scale up innovation, you have to be able to replicate.
03:21So first, replication is complicated.
03:24The second thing is about the value chain and the ecosystem.
03:28In the construction industry, ecosystem and value chain are very, very fragmented.
03:34So you have to convince many actors when you want to change something.
03:38And in addition to that, many of these actors are very small.
03:43They are SMEs.
03:45And when you want to introduce something new, you have to make huge efforts to train, to raise awareness about
03:54that.
03:55I think the next limit factor is that in this sector is highly regulated.
04:00You have norm, certification, standardization.
04:05And so when you want to add a new innovation in that area, it could take years, which is quite
04:14complicated.
04:15Not to mention the weakness of the margins in this sector.
04:20With weak margins, you cannot invest in this digital transformation.
04:26And you know that when you want to do a transformation, you have to invest a lot.
04:32And all the actors have to invest a lot.
04:35And the weakness of the margins make that very complicated.
04:40And to finish, if I had something to add, is that this sector is very adverse to the risks.
04:46And innovation, digital transformation, is a risk.
04:51Sine, do you have anything to add?
04:53I think you are completely right about the business, the identity of the business, of the sector.
05:03And I think regulation helps us.
05:06So the EU taxonomy and everything related to regulation in the different nations, I think that is something that is
05:16really good.
05:17I just came home from Tokyo last night, being part of the Sushi Tech conference.
05:23And they are looking at us in Europe.
05:26You know, what to do?
05:28How to solve this?
05:29What about carbon?
05:31What is LCA?
05:32What is, how do we do it?
05:34They are very focused on technologies, but they don't know how to bridge that into a more value-driven
05:42and purpose-driven, problem-solving paradigm in our sector.
05:48And I think we can do that in Europe.
05:50And we have methods and regulation to deal with that.
05:56Yes, the regulation brings maturity to companies because it's mandatory to evolve.
06:02I would prefer that people with their heart want to evolve, but I think that regulations can sometimes help them.
06:10Not too much, but when you fix an objective, a goal to everyone, people want to find ways to achieve
06:19the goals.
06:19And that, in terms of sustainability, I think, in Europe is the case.
06:24And what tools already exist today?
06:28And what tools, tools, yeah, exist today?
06:32Especially because you act like at the early phase of construction before the design.
06:39So what tools do you have?
06:43I think that what we have realized in our office, we are 750 designers globally, and what we can see
06:52with working and developing sustainable design
06:57is that if you don't come in very early at the business case level with the Excel sheet, with the
07:06KPIs, you are lost.
07:08Because you need to be able to influence the right decisions in the finance decision also.
07:19And right now, there is no tool in the market globally working with decarbonization on the urban level,
07:29where you have infrastructure, utility, mobility, landscape, and real estate together.
07:38So we have developed sort of our own tool, but based on EPDs and LCA's globally.
07:49So it can be used everywhere.
07:53But it is, so it is a way for us to do an urban calculation of a carbon, of a
08:01whole district, very fast.
08:05So we can make design decisions or scenarios to the business case to support, should we take this building down?
08:15Should we build a new metro station here?
08:19What are the consequences of mobility patterns if you do this and that?
08:25And I think for us, it's just a way to prototype new digital tools that can help the early decision
08:34-making for the stakeholders and people around urban development.
08:39And at Bouygues, do you have your own tools or do you work with maybe, of course, startups?
08:45Both of them.
08:47Because, yes, like Cine said, tools are there to make better decisions.
08:54And at every stage of the value chain and of the process, we can make a better decision.
09:02During the design phase, for example, of course, we can have that.
09:06And sometimes we are developing with partners some tools.
09:12When you are in the design phase, what you want is to optimize multi-criterial aspect of the project
09:20because you want to find the optimum between, I think, the environmental impacts and the economical costs.
09:28And so you have to do that.
09:30But what you want after that is to make the link with the construction phase
09:35because a model is not enough at the end, we are in a physical world and we have to build
09:40what we have designed.
09:42So you have to make these links.
09:44And, for example, we are developing a tool in partnership with the system to make this link
09:51between the design phase and the operational phase and the construction phase
09:57so that they can transform the plan which are in the building information models
10:05into a specific and simple task to perform on-site, which is quite important.
10:12So we have that.
10:14Another example for tools, for example, is you said that tools around the district are very important.
10:22and it's right.
10:23And so at Colas, Colas is a road infrastructure but also a territory company,
10:30and so we develop a digital twin of the territory, of the city,
10:35so that people can make decisions of the schedule and the nature of maintenance they have to do in the
10:44cities,
10:45which is very important to help the city, the town, or the department to make the good decisions
10:53because they have the information and they can elaborate on different scenarios.
10:58I invite you to go on our booth on VivaTech because we have a demonstration of this tool, for example.
11:05Thank you.
11:06You wanted to add something?
11:07I just want to add that, of course, you need the, you know, everything also related to the construction.
11:15I think I completely agree, but we can just see if you work in the early phase
11:20where you say what height or what should the volume be, what is it made of, is it biogenics,
11:27do you have parking basement or parking houses?
11:31I mean, there's a big difference in carbon.
11:34We can save up to 50% of a carbon consumption in an area, both embodied and operational,
11:46just by setting the right direction for an area.
11:50I think that is a good start because as soon as you have determined that you want a tower,
11:58then it's difficult to change that.
12:00But if you can talk about maybe we should have not a tower, but some low rises
12:07or it will be a better way of construction, then that kind of discussion, I think,
12:12is also important to place in the design phase.
12:16Yes, I totally agree.
12:18It's at the design phase we can do many things.
12:20It's there you can take decision who has a real impact.
12:23And even for building construction, when you are at the design phase,
12:28you can make very good decisions.
12:31It's why eco-design is so important.
12:33At this stage, we can reduce the consumption.
12:37We can reduce water consumption, energy consumption,
12:42because you work on what types of materials, what types of construction methods you want to use,
12:48the orientation and the density of the building.
12:52Everything you can decide at the beginning and you can't change that at the end.
12:57And this can reduce and divide the carbon footprint.
13:03For example, we have a concept building developed by Buick Construction.
13:09It's named Archisobre.
13:10Archisobre, they have worked on the bioclimatic design, for example.
13:16they have worked on what tools they can use to improve in the operating phase,
13:21the energy consumption, their work on materials.
13:25And at the end, the carbon footprint of the building is divided by three, which is huge.
13:30So, yes, I totally agree.
13:32At the beginning of the process, you have to see how optimizing all the buildings together,
13:41where are the energy production facilities, where you store the energy, where are the consumers,
13:48do you have offices or housing, which is not the same, parking or not.
13:52And then, when you have decided globally how it will look like,
13:58you have the eco-design part for each of the facilities,
14:02each of them to find a better technology and then can reduce dramatically the carbon footprint,
14:09but not only the carbon footprint, all the environmental impact,
14:13because water consumption, resource, new resources, natural resources are very important.
14:20and that is at the beginning of the process, you can do that.
14:23But you can do that, you can do also many things after that.
14:27Of course.
14:28Of course.
14:29And Sine, you were in Tokyo, you said, yesterday.
14:32Would you say there are regions in the world that are more advanced,
14:36in terms of, you know, where you have more solutions,
14:39more projects that can help reduce those gas emissions?
14:43I think, my impression, I was there for a week,
14:47so I don't know everything,
14:50but I got an impression that they are very focused on technologies or tech solutions,
14:59like digital solutions,
15:01but what they are looking for is also how to make cities or buildings
15:08human-centric, life-centric,
15:12creating emotions, creating meaningfulness to places.
15:17So, they are somehow also looking for partners who can bridge both, you know,
15:24head and heart in the same way, in the same solution.
15:28So, I think, and they are looking to watch Europe,
15:34to seeking for those partnerships,
15:37because our systemic way of working together in this sector,
15:43even though it's a slow and fragmentized sector,
15:48we are still rather good at actually working together
15:51when we have a purpose and we have a direction.
15:56But what can help this, you know, integration,
16:00those partnerships, what could be the solutions?
16:04Here from our side, I think I brought,
16:07today I brought,
16:10I brought a letter of intent from the government of Denmark,
16:15because they are looking to create actually partnerships
16:20with big organizations outside of Denmark,
16:24because they want to co-invest in projects where there is a risk
16:30and they can see that they cannot only just inspire us as private companies,
16:36but they need to help us to create these partnerships.
16:41So, finance, finance and taking out risk in these projects
16:47are a way for them to empower us
16:50to look for partnerships that are bigger than just one project.
16:55A question, of course, about AI.
16:59It's a big part of VivaTech.
17:01It's transforming a lot of industries.
17:04What about yours, Marilus?
17:07Like everywhere, AI is transforming the industry construction, I think.
17:13Yes, at every phase.
17:14We spoke about digital tools and behind these tools,
17:17you can find AI in many cases.
17:19When we spoke about the optimization during the design phase,
17:24there are AI tools behind that
17:26to find this optimization of many criteria
17:30and to find this optimum balance,
17:32I spoke, I talked about before.
17:36That is the first one.
17:38During the construction phase,
17:40it's perhaps a different topic.
17:43It's very complicated today
17:46to have sites in an urban area
17:49because people don't want the disturbances of a site.
17:53A site is sometimes noisy,
17:55sometimes you have dust and so on.
17:58and people are reluctant to have this site.
18:04And it's mandatory to have sites
18:08because you have to build housing and so on
18:10or to renovate.
18:12So we developed a solution named Ubi,
18:16which is a solution with the AI
18:19and the data coming from sensors on site.
18:23You can analyze noise, vibration, air quality, dust,
18:29and you can give some recommendation
18:33to your site manager
18:36to improve the acceptances of site
18:39and which is very important.
18:42The neighborhood of a site
18:45can be very aggressive sometimes
18:47with people on site
18:48because it's very complicated for them
18:51to have this pollution, noise pollution.
18:54So these things, AI can help also
18:58on that type of subject.
19:02Okay, and for you, Cindy?
19:05I can just explain
19:08because I'm super curious
19:09with the AI and the design process.
19:11So I have just been part of a competition
19:15of a very big area of Copenhagen,
19:17one of the last, most important brownfields.
19:21It is 80 hectares
19:24and we did a test here
19:27where we said
19:28we are participating in this competition,
19:31ideas competition.
19:32It was a free ride, you can say,
19:35without drawing anything.
19:37Can we use AI to generate our proposal?
19:42So what we did was
19:44we harvest a lot of unstructured data
19:49from Facebook and Instagram
19:52seeing, learning how,
19:55what are the impression of the area today?
19:58What are people looking for?
20:00What do they love about this area?
20:02Because it's a brownfield
20:04with a lot of small startups.
20:06And so for the last 10 years,
20:08people have been doing
20:09a lot of cultural stuff out there.
20:11and we said,
20:12okay, let's take all that data
20:14and use that directly
20:19prompting the mid-journey.
20:21So creating all the images
20:23relating to a future
20:25where we take the best
20:27of what they see,
20:28but what would it look like
20:30if you add 1 million square meter?
20:32What kind of city,
20:34a vision is that?
20:35And I think we spent 40 hours,
20:38normally we would spend 300 hours
20:41of a competition,
20:42very expensive.
20:43But in this case,
20:45we tried to test a new method,
20:47a new design method.
20:48If we could be,
20:50not the architect
20:52as, you know,
20:53producing the idea,
20:55but sort of facilitating data
20:59in a new way
21:00so it would also lead
21:03to a new role
21:04for the architect.
21:05So for me,
21:06that was,
21:07of course,
21:08testing how can we use AI
21:10to create a vision,
21:14but also how can we make citizens
21:18being part of that vision
21:20because they can also prompt
21:22and create images
21:25of a future city
21:26together with us.
21:27It doesn't have to be
21:29the architect.
21:30At the end,
21:30it could be
21:31a more open process.
21:32So I think there are
21:34a lot of possibilities,
21:37especially working
21:38in the urban scale
21:40with AI and data.
21:43And you're saying
21:44that all the solutions,
21:47the tech solution,
21:48AI solution,
21:49are they scalable or not?
21:53And are they really easy
21:54to integrate?
21:55Would you say?
21:56I would say yes.
21:57I think it's easy.
22:01I think the problem is
22:03that if we are allowed
22:05to download
22:06all those different programs,
22:08but we will have
22:08that discussion
22:09with the IT department
22:11with all the firewalls
22:13and all that.
22:13But I think
22:14it's just a playground
22:16of opportunities.
22:20Yes, I think
22:22they are easy
22:23to integrate
22:24because AI
22:25can improve
22:26dramatically
22:26the interface,
22:29the human-machine interface.
22:31And we saw
22:32that it was very difficult
22:33to scale
22:34and to go through
22:35digital transformation
22:37in the sector
22:37because you have
22:40to raise awareness
22:41and training.
22:42And when you have
22:42tools who facilitate
22:44the link
22:46between tools
22:47and humans,
22:48it's really
22:49a help
22:50to go through
22:52this digital transformation.
22:53So in addition
22:54of what Sini says,
22:56I think
22:57that they are
22:57easy to integrate.
23:00Are they easy
23:01to scale?
23:02Like the other innovation,
23:03it's always complicated
23:05to scale
23:06at a large scale
23:09the innovation,
23:10but I think
23:12there will be.
23:12And in addition
23:13to that,
23:14we must think
23:15about the sustainability
23:16of AI.
23:17I think
23:17it's not possible
23:19to dream
23:20about generative AI
23:22without thinking
23:23about the impact
23:25and the environmental
23:26impact of the AI today.
23:28We have to improve
23:29dramatically that.
23:31Today,
23:33generative AI
23:34consume water,
23:36consume energy,
23:38consume resources,
23:39and it's not sustainable.
23:41It's not sustainable.
23:42so we can dream
23:43about many things,
23:44but we have to find
23:45solutions on that
23:46if we want to use
23:48these generative AI
23:49more widely
23:50and more efficiently.
23:54It's true.
23:54You agree with that?
23:56I agree.
23:58I can see
23:58one of our
23:59emerging typologies
24:02in the studio
24:03is data centers.
24:04So what we see
24:06in terms of the,
24:08you know,
24:08creating all that data
24:10and all the energy consumption
24:12relating to us
24:14producing
24:14and processing
24:15data,
24:16I think
24:17that's also
24:18the backside
24:19or the flip coin
24:20of everything
24:22related to
24:23tech,
24:24what we have out here.
24:25what we see
24:26is that
24:27the data centers
24:30will come
24:31close to the cities
24:32now
24:32because we need them
24:34close to the
24:35infrastructure
24:36due to risk,
24:39but how do we
24:40create
24:41a nice
24:44interface
24:45with society
24:47when you have
24:48a data center
24:48right in the middle
24:49of the city center,
24:51you need to create
24:52food,
24:53happy people,
24:55better parks,
24:57solving water issues
24:58at the same time
24:59while you have
25:00these new
25:02big blocks.
25:04And you have to think
25:05about that
25:06in terms of ecosystem
25:07because you
25:07will talk about
25:09data center,
25:09data center produce
25:10heat
25:11and we need heat
25:12so how can we
25:14organize
25:14the data center
25:17with the city
25:18to take this
25:20heat
25:21and to use
25:21them into
25:22some different
25:23areas.
25:24For example,
25:25we work in
25:26data centers
25:27who produce
25:27heat
25:28and who can
25:29give
25:30this heat
25:31to swimming
25:32pools,
25:33for example,
25:34and it can
25:34have a better
25:36impact at the end.
25:37but we have
25:38to think
25:39about that
25:40because
25:40these facilities
25:42are very
25:42important
25:43but we have
25:44to integrate
25:45it in the
25:45whole picture.
25:47And one last
25:48question.
25:49Do you see,
25:50I don't know,
25:52other solutions
25:53or other
25:53emerging trends
25:55that will shape
25:56the future
25:57of low-carbon
25:58buildings?
25:59Something maybe
26:00you're working on
26:01if you can tell us.
26:03I think
26:04touching upon
26:06typology,
26:07we had a
26:08discussion
26:09in the
26:09green room
26:10before we
26:10talked about
26:11offices
26:12or residential,
26:14you know,
26:14those classical
26:16typologies
26:17or segments
26:19that we
26:19normally work
26:20in,
26:21but that is
26:22changing.
26:23So we see
26:24hybrid
26:26functioning
26:27buildings
26:27where you
26:28see a mix
26:29of things
26:30and especially
26:31the
26:32urban
26:33infrastructure
26:34projects
26:35as a data
26:36center
26:36or as
26:37wastewater
26:38plants
26:38coming into
26:39cities now,
26:41the back
26:42side of
26:43society
26:43are coming
26:44closer to
26:45the inner
26:46city.
26:46So we
26:47will find
26:47new ways
26:49of including
26:50that kind
26:51of infrastructure
26:52into a
26:53residential
26:54area,
26:54maybe together
26:56with residential
26:57or maybe
26:58together with
26:58office and
26:59so on.
27:00So there
27:00will be
27:01a more
27:03blurred
27:05borders
27:06between the
27:07classical way
27:08of thinking
27:09real estate.
27:10I think that
27:11is a trend
27:11that we see
27:12especially in
27:13US,
27:14Europe and
27:15definitely
27:16Asia.
27:19I see the
27:21same thing,
27:22but in
27:22addition to
27:23that,
27:23yes,
27:24what we
27:24think is,
27:25what I
27:25think,
27:26in convincing
27:26innovation is
27:28very important
27:28to solve
27:29these challenges
27:30we have and
27:30we face,
27:31but innovation
27:32is not only
27:33technical
27:33innovation,
27:34we need
27:34technical
27:35innovation,
27:36we need
27:36innovation in
27:37terms of
27:37energy,
27:38and EQUAN,
27:39our subsidiaries,
27:40is really
27:41focusing on
27:41that,
27:42energy.
27:43we need
27:43new materials
27:44that I
27:44think there
27:45are big
27:46and huge
27:46innovation in
27:47materials,
27:49using more
27:50and more
27:51biomaterials,
27:52reuse of
27:53materials and
27:53so on.
27:54But we also
27:54need to work on
27:55business model
27:56because we can
27:57innovate on
27:58business model.
27:58how can we
27:59share facilities,
28:01how can we
28:01improve the
28:03usage,
28:03the intensity
28:04of usage of
28:05a building
28:06because many
28:07buildings are
28:08not used at
28:09their maximum.
28:10They are
28:11often empty,
28:14empty.
28:14Schools are
28:15empty,
28:15universities are
28:16empty,
28:17offices are
28:18often empty.
28:19How can we
28:20bring all
28:22these things
28:22together to
28:23imagine new
28:24business models
28:25who are more
28:26focused on
28:28usage,
28:28than on
28:29possession.
28:30And that is
28:30very important.
28:31I think
28:32innovation is
28:33technical but
28:34also economical
28:35innovation.
28:36Great.
28:37That's a great
28:37conclusion.
28:38Thank you very
28:39much again for
28:40being here today.
28:41Thank you.
28:42Thank you.
28:42Thank you.
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