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How Can the Ecosystem Bring Deeptech to the Next Level
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00:10Sous-titrage Société Radio-Canada
00:31Sous-titrage Société Radio-Canada
01:09Sous-titrage Société Radio-Canada
01:12because these are startups that rely, invest in breakthrough technologies to actually find solutions to challenges like how are we
01:25going to feed the world tomorrow or going into space and so on.
01:32And so they rely on fields like artificial intelligence, robotics, all kind of space tech and so on.
01:44And they really bring, you know, new frontiers to all of us.
01:49And it's very important that Europe keeps investing and keeps in the race because it's a sovereignty issue as well.
02:00If we go back, you know, for two seconds into the COVID period, well, at that time when there are
02:10scarce resources, when everyone is facing challenges,
02:14even your best allies sometimes say, well, we love you, but we're not sure we have enough resources for our
02:21own population.
02:21So guys, you know, we'll help you, but later on.
02:25So I think it's really important that Europe keeps, you know, investing and ahead on these matters because it's a
02:34sovereignty issue and it's exciting.
02:36Theo and Clem, this is your wonderful moment for a sales pitch.
02:40But what is the value of your companies actually beyond the company?
02:44What else do you bring to the broader economy?
02:47Yes, at Alice and Bob, we're building a quantum computer.
02:51The idea of a quantum computer is to leverage the richer mathematics of quantum physics to tremendously speed up computations
02:59that are just out of reach of today's best supercomputers.
03:05So if you think of what are the possibilities enabled by quantum computing, it really comes down to a few
03:13families of use cases, but that are absolutely everywhere.
03:17You'll find optimization problem, and I don't think that you can think of a single business that is not an
03:23optimization problem.
03:24Linear algebra, which is the basic math of all modern engineering from designing planes to building AIs.
03:32And the most exciting one is making chemistry and exact science.
03:37So basically, you will be able to design new materials, new chemicals, new drugs, ideally directly in your computer.
03:47Theo, what's your value? You're a biotech firm.
03:52Sorry, Clem, forgive me.
03:55First of all, I could not agree more with what Marguerite has just said.
04:00Deep tech are working in developing the solutions and technologies needed for tomorrow's world.
04:08That's also a matter of sovereignty.
04:12Deep diving on the example of phenobrachy.
04:14We are working in building tomorrow's food system, trying to make it compatible with the constraints in terms of biodiversity,
04:22in terms of carbon footprint that we have.
04:25We are producing insect protein to feed animals, and I would like maybe to add two points.
04:31First of all, regarding the impact of deep techs.
04:34First of all, deep tech projects often translate into industrial projects that are then creating jobs in local communities.
04:43And the creation of jobs is also extremely important to maintain the cohesion of our territories.
04:50And the other aspect would say that investing in successful projects goes beyond just the success of a company.
05:00It's also a source of inspiration for the food ecosystem in terms of trust, in terms of knowledge, in terms
05:08of experience.
05:09And I really believe that the ecosystem needs an example and a positive narrative regarding this tourism.
05:16So we have sovereignty issues.
05:18We have jobs being created.
05:21Clara, if you could quantify what deep tech firms bring to the broader French economy and to Europe, could you?
05:29I think beyond everything that has been said, which is obviously crucial to what the government is looking at when
05:36we look at deep tech, sovereignty, also obviously job creation opportunities, there is a huge economical prospect looking at those
05:45companies.
05:46We're not going to lie, and maybe we have to face that the first wave of tech companies were mostly
05:53all created out of Europe, and the big ones that emerged emerged out of Europe.
05:58We're on the verge of so many big changes when it comes to technology and so many revolutions.
06:04You talked about quantum.
06:05You talked about bringing up insects and replacing proteins with insects.
06:10I mean, all of those technologies, we have the chance to build the giants here in Europe that will bring
06:16our sovereignty, but will also build really big companies and huge economical prospect for us.
06:21So it's a very important matter that we put all our forces behind those companies, and that's what we're extremely
06:29excited to do.
06:30We announced here, the president Emmanuel Macron announced here two days ago, the creation of a new program called French
06:36Tech 2030,
06:37which is aiming at supporting 125 of those companies in space tech, in green tech, in mobility, in AI, quantum,
06:49all those technologies, so we can help and accelerate those companies.
06:53When you talked about industry, 70% of those companies have or are planning to operate a plant, so they're
07:00really new types of tech companies that we're going to build here in France and are going to create all
07:06those jobs.
07:07And most of them have been created from research that comes just out of the lab.
07:12So out of the 125, I think 40 of them, the technology behind it was created in the CNRS, which
07:20is our national center for research.
07:22This is really important because this is completely inside the issue of sovereignty.
07:27Really strong on research, really strong on talent in innovation in Europe.
07:32But where things get tricky is financing.
07:36And if you compare Europe to the U.S., the venture capital funds are minnows compared to the U.S.,
07:42and so this is a huge challenge.
07:45And Clément, your kind of late stage or later stage in terms of fundraising, talk to us about the challenges
07:51when it comes to deep tech versus other technology,
07:54because it is more challenging, particularly in late stage.
07:58Now, that's very interesting because tech and deep tech companies are often part of the same ecosystem, like divatex.
08:05That's a very good example.
08:06But we are actually very different kind of animals.
08:10We spoke about the impact of deep techs, but we can also speak about specific needs and specific challenges.
08:17One of them is a lead time to reach profitability milestone.
08:23Successful project requires 10 to 15 years in deep tech to reach profitability.
08:30Yet, once profitability is reached, the competitive advantage is much stronger, much more sustainable.
08:38And we need to design funding systems that take into account these specificities.
08:45In our example, at Innovafit, we have been able to secure last year 300 million euros as a Series D,
08:52and we found support for sovereign funds, industrial players, family office.
08:58Most of these investment vehicles betting on the next generation, investing two-day money for the next generation.
09:07And interestingly, most of those vehicles have been found outside of Europe,
09:12in Asia, in Singapore, in Middle East, in the US.
09:16And I think if we really want to be ambitious, to bet bigger on the deep tech sector in Europe,
09:22we need to develop more options for deep tech companies in Europe.
09:26Marguerite, pick up on that, outside of Europe. Why?
09:29I actually agree with all you've said.
09:32But I mean, what I think we've been able to develop in Europe in the past few years, and quite
09:38successfully,
09:39is early stage investors.
09:42I mean, we really, in deep tech, we didn't have them before.
09:46And as you mentioned, you know, even last year in deep tech,
09:50we did manage in Europe to invest, you know, 18 billion euros.
09:54It doesn't, you know, it's okay, it's a third of what's happening in the US.
09:57It's not enough.
09:58But it's something we didn't used to have in just a few years ago.
10:03So it's, I think we're on track.
10:06But what you said is, it's very important that we have difficulties finding,
10:11I would say, you know, Series B investors.
10:16Because for some reasons, you know, VCs we have in Europe,
10:22the generous ones, are sometimes too small.
10:24And in their teams, they don't necessarily have the right specialists
10:29and tech specialists to actually connect to deep tech.
10:32So we are getting there in terms of early stage.
10:35And then for the Series B, it's slightly more difficult.
10:39And that's why I think we were talking about it with Clara,
10:43what the President announced in terms of mobilizing institutional investors
10:49in what's called, you know, TB font number two is so crucial
10:54because I think it will bring, you know, with this,
10:57if we talk about France, this 7 billion target,
11:01quite an input for, you know, helping deep tech companies go one stage further.
11:08Well, Clara, maybe you should pick up here because the French government
11:11has been incredibly ambitious, I think, in its targets.
11:14It's certainly put its money where its mouth is.
11:1746% of deep tech funding comes from the public sector in France
11:22versus 26% in the US.
11:24But should the state be intervening that much?
11:29There are critics.
11:30I think it's a good thing, or I hope it's a good thing.
11:33Maybe you should ask the startups on stage
11:35that the state has been so committed to the sector
11:38because there is so much at stake
11:40that we need to support those companies,
11:43especially in an ecosystem where private financing
11:46for those type of companies is still relatively less mature
11:49than for more like traditional digital tech companies.
11:54in October 2021, the president announced a plan
11:58called France de Mille Trans, so France 2030,
12:01which is going to dedicate 54 billion euros to this sector,
12:06all the sectors we talked about,
12:08so health, ecological transition, mobility, green tech, all of that.
12:15And that's a good thing because this is also how
12:18some of those big companies really started in countries like the US.
12:23Obviously Elon Musk is coming here.
12:25Everyone knows how much the state has supported Tesla or SpaceX,
12:31but maybe some people don't know that even Siri
12:34was supported by a government initiative.
12:37So all of those big technologies requires some kind of state support.
12:42But where I agree with you is it needs to be complemented
12:45by the private sector because you don't want to have
12:47only public subsidies going through to those companies.
12:51And I'm very hopeful with what has been announced,
12:53as Marguerite was saying, by President Emmanuel Macron
12:56to have this commitment from institutional investors,
13:00banks, insurance, pension funds, etc.
13:04Going into VC investing through funds and funds,
13:08and especially on the deep tech sector,
13:10will really help to unlock, I think, this potential
13:13because we need to work constantly
13:15and help those companies succeed
13:17and continue to flourish here in Europe.
13:19Theo, does it worry you looking further ahead
13:22because you're still quite early stage
13:23and quite reliant on VC funding?
13:25Are you concerned about later stages
13:27and whether there are pockets that are deep enough?
13:31Yeah.
13:31So it's a good question
13:33because at the moment we have very strong assets.
13:35I mean, the technology we came out
13:37from a public research institution with
13:40is 60 times more powerful than Google,
13:43is copied by Amazon.
13:44I mean, today we're really kind of one of those examples
13:47of the French excellence when it comes to deep science.
13:50So we do have assets.
13:52And in that sense, I'm confident.
13:54But then if you want to fund
13:57a very pro-revenue company like ours
13:59at the right level to remain competitive
14:02because we have ideas now
14:04where we're going to need a bit of patrol
14:06of oil, as we say.
14:08Maybe not oil.
14:09Something else.
14:11And then at that point, size does matter
14:14when it comes to funding
14:15because it's really a simple equation.
14:19A fund cannot invest more than 5% to 10%
14:22in a single company.
14:23And if you're raising your 100 million ground,
14:27that means that you're looking for a lead investor
14:29that is able to deploy 50 million.
14:32And that means you're hunting for a $1 billion fund
14:36that can do deep tech pre-review in Europe.
14:39It's going to be a tough challenge for sure.
14:41So we'll have to look everywhere.
14:43And this is where the government has to play a role.
14:47Not by subsidies.
14:48I mean, subsidies are great,
14:49but they're not as healthy as public procurement.
14:52And when you mentioned SpaceX,
14:54SpaceX is fueled by public procurement,
14:57which is vastly different
14:58from subsidizing an industry.
15:01It's a combination of all.
15:03And to enter your previous question,
15:06I think that the role played by government
15:08is actually quite important
15:09because you have to kickstart the engine
15:12so that the first generation of strong exits
15:16fuel the next generation of risk investment.
15:19And this cycle has to start somewhere.
15:22I'm glad you actually talked about procurement
15:24because we were all talking about financing,
15:27but something that also needs much more attention
15:29is definitely procurement.
15:31And that's something we've been working on
15:33with Minister Jean-Noël Barraud,
15:35who was here opening VivaTech this year
15:37with our Minister of Digital.
15:39We launched this morning a new initiative
15:42called Je Choisis la French Tech,
15:44or in good English,
15:45I Choose French Tech Companies,
15:47which aims at really connecting startups,
15:50corporate startups, public sector,
15:52not just to finance those companies,
15:55but also to take this leap of faith
15:57and be the one that is going to take a little bit of risk
16:00and go and buy one of the solutions of those companies.
16:03because I'm sure, as Theo was saying,
16:06if some people in the room have the power
16:09to take this risk
16:10and go to you after we go out of the stage
16:13and say, okay, I'm ready to buy one of your quantum computer,
16:17this will help you raise much more money
16:19than if BPI gives you another type of subsidy
16:24or invest in your company.
16:25And that's what we're really, really keen to accelerate now
16:28and help those barriers break
16:30and help everyone commit to do better
16:32and to buy those solutions
16:34to help build the innovations,
16:36develop those innovations,
16:38and at the same time also get financing
16:41because it's a little bit easier
16:43when you have contracts to get financing
16:45than the other way around.
16:46France was actually the only major European nation
16:49to see an increase in funding to startups last year.
16:53It was a pretty tricky year, let's be fair.
16:55But what is it, you think, Marguerite,
16:57that you can adopt from the French model
16:59that would work for the rest of Europe?
17:00Because clearly, when we're looking at bolstering deep tech,
17:05it's the ecosystem,
17:06and that doesn't stop at the boundaries of France.
17:09So, no, of course not.
17:10And, you know, we're taking some examples
17:13of what's happening in France,
17:14and you have very strong government programs in France
17:18supporting deep tech,
17:20but you also have them in Germany,
17:21you also have them in the UK,
17:23you also have European initiatives
17:25through, you know, the European Investment Fund
17:28or the JEDI initiatives.
17:30So, you also have initiatives that are not only,
17:33you know, domestic ones,
17:35but are cross-countries,
17:37and I think that's quite important as well
17:39because many of these companies,
17:43you know, their destiny is not to be domestic
17:46and stuck to the French boundaries.
17:48I mean, they will spread all over Europe
17:53and further on,
17:55and so I think it's really important that,
17:58of course, when they get started,
18:00they are nurtured in, you know,
18:06a fruitful domestic environment,
18:10but that, in growing,
18:11they can also scale up
18:13all through Europe and beyond.
18:17And I think we start having, you know,
18:19European programs that are meaningful.
18:22Zooming out and looking at the EU level,
18:25one technology where Europe really leads
18:27is clean tech,
18:28and I was wondering whether this is a good example
18:31of where policy and regulation
18:34and harmonization across the block
18:36has actually worked.
18:38Do you want to see more of this for deep tech?
18:42Yes, I think taking a step back,
18:45we need to be aware of the alignment of stars
18:50which is required to launch successfully
18:54a deep tech project.
18:56You need to have the establishment
18:57of the relevant regulatory framework.
19:00You need to secure fundings,
19:01you need to secure off-takes,
19:03you need to secure partnerships,
19:05secure competitive advantage,
19:07and that's true.
19:08The regulatory framework
19:10is one of the key aspects
19:12that needs to be developed.
19:15And in Europe,
19:17we have the challenge
19:18to have two levels,
19:21the national level
19:22and the EU level,
19:23which creates a risk
19:25to be less agile
19:27than other continents.
19:28And that's something
19:29we need to be extremely careful about
19:31because pace,
19:33and the pace at which
19:34we are able to develop regulation,
19:35is critical
19:36in the development
19:37of very innovative industries.
19:41It's very clearly today
19:42that's not the big hitting the small,
19:44that's the fast hitting the slow.
19:46And if we want to be leading
19:48in deep tech in Europe,
19:49we need also to activate
19:50this level,
19:52being more agile,
19:53more coordinated
19:54to develop the right regulatory framework
19:56at European level.
19:59Te, pick up on this.
20:00What would you like to see
20:01at a European level?
20:02I mean,
20:03the thing when it comes to regulation
20:05is that you always regulate
20:06thinking about the big players,
20:08but they can take it.
20:10The one you're actually constraining
20:11are the small players,
20:12the emerging one.
20:14So,
20:15I mean,
20:15regulation is really a double-edged sword
20:17when you think about it.
20:19I mean,
20:22the AI boom
20:24is really pushing
20:25the system
20:26into its limits
20:27and I'm sure
20:28that the kind of disruption
20:30quantum will bring
20:31in terms of possibilities
20:32of new kind of engineering
20:34will also come
20:35with all the challenges
20:37for governments
20:37to find the right balance
20:39between encouraging
20:40innovative startups,
20:42encouraging a thriving ecosystem,
20:45while still remaining
20:46aligned with their vision
20:49for society.
20:50I mean,
20:51using the AI act
20:52as an example,
20:53do you think Europe
20:53gets it right?
20:54Is it too focused
20:55on sticks
20:57and not enough carrots?
20:59I mean,
20:59the American model
21:00is all carrots.
21:01I mean,
21:03once again,
21:04it should be
21:05two sides
21:05to different policies.
21:08I mean,
21:09you cannot
21:11impose the same constraints
21:12on a five-people startup
21:14trying to bootstrap
21:16the technology
21:16than on Google's
21:18global AI initiatives.
21:21There should be
21:22a size limit
21:25that applies
21:26to those kind
21:26of regulation.
21:28Clara,
21:29what does France get right
21:30that you'd like to see
21:31broadened out
21:31across the region?
21:34Oh,
21:34interesting question again
21:36we should ask you guys.
21:38And I think
21:39what I'm hopeful for
21:40coming back
21:40to the financing question
21:41is all those initiatives
21:43that Margrethe described.
21:44also now
21:46are taking place
21:47at a European level
21:48with an initiative
21:49called Scale Up Europe
21:51which basically
21:52is bringing together
21:54all the major
21:54European countries,
21:56European Union countries
21:57to create this
21:58founder fund
21:59to scale
22:00big VC funds
22:02that are going
22:03to be able
22:03to raise
22:04more than a billion
22:05euros
22:06so that are going
22:07to be able
22:07to make all those
22:08big rounds
22:08that you are talking about.
22:10And this fund,
22:11Bruno Le Maire,
22:12Minister of Economy,
22:13announced
22:13the start of this fund
22:15earlier this year
22:16and is already
22:17now starting
22:17to operate.
22:19And I hope
22:20it's going to fill
22:20one of the gaps
22:21that we've identified
22:23because as you said
22:24there are so many
22:25new technologies,
22:27so many possibilities
22:27and definitely
22:29playing together
22:30as Europe
22:31will be key
22:32if we want to emerge.
22:33So financing
22:34especially will be key
22:35if we manage
22:36to do it
22:37and combine it together
22:38at a European level.
22:39I think it's a good metric
22:41as well.
22:41We were talking backstage
22:42about whether
22:43we should focus so much
22:44on how many unicorns
22:45are created each year
22:46and whether or not
22:48the metrics should be
22:48how much investment
22:50is put in.
22:51What do you think, Marguerite?
22:52When we return next year,
22:53how do we know
22:54whether we've had
22:54a good year or not?
22:55I think, you know,
22:56I'm not sure
22:57that we always need
23:00indicators
23:00and it's kind of nice
23:02to have these metrics
23:03but at the end of the day
23:04what I really care about
23:06as well
23:06is having
23:08something that's
23:09very European,
23:11i.e.
23:12one of the things
23:12we also like doing
23:14and we did it
23:15for instance
23:16last week
23:17and the week before
23:17is bringing
23:20French deep tech companies
23:22meeting with
23:23Italian ones,
23:24Spanish ones,
23:26British ones,
23:26German ones
23:27because there are
23:28connections to be built
23:30and so,
23:31okay,
23:31the figures on
23:32how many unicorns
23:33are we going to get
23:34but at the end of the day
23:35this is also going to depend
23:36on the market level, right?
23:38I mean,
23:38if the markets are good,
23:39well,
23:39valuations are going to go up
23:40and you have more unicorns
23:41so it's a metric
23:42but it's not the end of the game.
23:44what's important is
23:46are we actually
23:47building these connections
23:48and,
23:49you know,
23:50one of,
23:51with a lot of humility,
23:52one of the things
23:53that a bank can do
23:54when we're present
23:56in all countries
23:57is also help
23:57building these bridges
23:58in Europe.
23:59And building bridges
24:00and making connections
24:01is what VivaTech is about
24:03so a perfect way
24:04to end this session.
24:05Thank you everyone
24:06and thank you to you all
24:07for your excellent insight.
24:08Thank you so much.
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