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Metaverse Economics Unlocking Business Opportunities
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00:00Welcome back to VivaTech. A big welcome to all of you. Thank you to be here today or remotely with
00:07us.
00:08So we are about to start a new conversation on Medaverse today entitled Medaverse Economics, Unlocking Business Opportunities.
00:16To submit your questions to our speakers, please use the VivaTech digital platform, whether you're here in the audience with
00:24us or online via the chat.
00:27So now, to explore this topic, I'm delighted to be joined by Marc Petit, VP and General Manager, Unreal Engine
00:36Ecosystem at Epic Games. Hello.
00:40On my left, Sébastien Bourget, Co-Founder and CEO at The Sunbox. Hello.
00:46Hello.
00:46Nelly Mansa, who is VP Digital Innovation and Head of Crypto of Metaverse also at LVMH. Hello.
00:54Good to be here.
00:55And Sébastien Badeau, Vice President of Metaverse and Web3 at Ledger.
01:00Hi.
01:01It's nice to have you. Thank you for being here today.
01:06So, Marc, we'll start together.
01:09Okay.
01:09I would like to kick off this conversation with Epic Games.
01:14You know this is the organization behind the notorious game Fortnite.
01:20In your perspective, what makes people spend more time and eventually money also in the Metaverse?
01:27What makes a successful also Metaverse experience?
01:32I think the answer is quite simple is the Metaverse experience is a social first experience.
01:37And, you know, that's the place when you can be with the people you want to be with.
01:40You can hang out with your friends, with your family, eventually with your co-workers.
01:43And I think that's the killer app, you know, that feeling of being together.
01:48You know, on Fortnite, you can emote, you can chat.
01:51One day, you know, using more sophisticated technology, we can have co-presence.
01:55You know, you and I can be talking remotely.
01:57And I get the same experience than talking to you now.
02:01You know, I can see your gaze, your facial expression, your body language.
02:05And I think that's what's going to make that social aspect, that communication aspect for me,
02:10that is why people will love the Metaverse.
02:13And then it's interactive and customizable.
02:15You know, our kids, they want to customize everything they touch.
02:18They want to make it theirs.
02:20And the Metaverse will, you know, it's social first and then it's interactive.
02:23So this is the condition of a good experience?
02:26This is the condition of a good experience in Metaverse?
02:29To personalize everything?
02:33Yeah, that's what already you can do in Fortnite.
02:36You create your own personal identity.
02:38And then you can go in Fortnite Creative, create your own games, express yourselves,
02:42and then share this with your friends.
02:43Or you can do the same in the sandbox.
02:45I mean, that, you know, customization, that personalization, that interactivity,
02:49and that social is really fundamental for me to the Metaverse.
02:53Okay, so, thank you.
02:55And we'll talk with Sébastien now.
02:58Yes, you talk about the sandbox.
02:59But please, can you explain to us what is your work?
03:03What do you do with the sandbox?
03:06So, at sandbox, we provide a creative platform where anyone can make 3D content, as well as experiences, gaming, and
03:17much more.
03:18And they can monetize it, truly own it through the use of blockchain technology and NFTs.
03:25We want to empower the imagination of anyone through the new technologies that power the Metaverse.
03:33and really build a digital world where anyone through that avatar, that 3D representation of themselves,
03:43this new, fresh notion of identity, can start to create more social, more fun, more immersive, more engaging kind of
03:51experiences.
03:53Experiences that, hopefully, we are not finding today, yet, on the different stores and galleries of games.
04:00Experiences where owning your digital assets has a strong meaning and can help to create a whole new digital economy
04:08behind,
04:09even launch new jobs, help push and give opportunities for creators no matter where they are,
04:17and lower the barrier towards this creativity by using accessible tools and a representation in Voxel
04:26that is so simple and so accessible that no one needs even to read a user manual to start creating
04:33with.
04:33But more precisely, how can we monetize this on the platform?
04:39Every different aspect, you know, I'm thinking about Lens or branded assets.
04:46Well, it's very simple.
04:49Like, what we've seen so far in the space of gaming and virtual world for over 20, 25 years,
04:56as far as I've been playing video games, is like any content I create or I buy with real money,
05:03actually, it isn't mine.
05:06It isn't mine because I cannot send it to another user.
05:10I cannot use it on another platform.
05:12I cannot even sell it on the marketplace outside of the game.
05:16Sometimes games have marketplaces, but they, most of the time, don't.
05:21And certainly, they do not allow.
05:24It was very often considered as like a grey market or black market to actually take your digital content,
05:30such as your avatar, your skills, your weapons, your creation, your games, etc., and try to monetize it.
05:40So, at the basis here, we're really providing that freedom to any users through a technology that is open and
05:48transparent and trusted
05:49because no one controlled it, which is a blockchain.
05:52So, they can take those digital assets and start selling them the way they want on the marketplace of Sandbox
05:58or anywhere else.
05:59Thank you, Sébastien.
06:01Over to you, Nelly.
06:03You are the VP Digital Innovation and Head of Crypto and Metaverse at the luxury group LVMH.
06:09What business potential do you see in the Metaverse and what avenues does it open for brands to interact with
06:19consumers?
06:20Absolutely.
06:21We think that Web3 and Metaverse is absolutely the future for all brands, including luxury.
06:27And LVMH Maisons have actually been experimenting in this space for a really long time.
06:32So, from virtual try-on of makeup at our beauty brands to really partnering with the gaming industry, with Louis
06:41Vuitton, with League of Legends,
06:43Benefit, with their Twitch streaming service.
06:45So, we have already been experimenting, but now that the space is maturing, we really are looking at a range
06:51of business models to explore.
06:53So, first and foremost, I think the fact that you can actually own digital assets in the virtual space is
06:59absolutely, I think, game-changing.
07:02We do believe that everything does come back to the physical product.
07:06It is where the heritage and savoir-faire of our Maisons lives.
07:09But imagine what other benefits you could offer to your clients if, in addition to a physical item, you also
07:17have a digital asset that can further allow you to express yourself,
07:23signal that you are a fan of a particular brand, and also engage with other loyal fans and members around
07:30this product.
07:30So, obviously, digital product that are digital twins to our existing products are really interesting to us.
07:37Then, if you look at metaverse as an additional touchpoint with the client, if you think of the consumer journey
07:43from awareness to purchase to after sales,
07:47we have so many opportunities, I think, in the metaverse to enhance all of those moments.
07:52One, awareness, right? Even if there are younger users in the metaverse now, like we see in Fortnite or Roblox,
07:59we think it's a really great moment to raise awareness for older customers that might be on a decentralized platform
08:06where they are transacting.
08:08That's where they can basically get to know the products and purchase.
08:12And then you can also imagine if you're trying to, you know, get questions answered about how do I use
08:18this product?
08:18What's the best skin care for me?
08:20Where can I get my, you know, Remova suitcase repaired?
08:23You can imagine having that interaction with a client advisor in the metaverse, especially if the client can't come to
08:29you for a variety of reasons.
08:31And then last but not least, if you look at more practical and scalable options, we are working very closely
08:38with the Aura consortium,
08:39which we're a part of, to really push on transparency and traceability.
08:44This is something that is so important to the consumer today to know where their products are coming from,
08:50that they're authentic and that they're buying a product from a brand that they love.
08:54And so we are looking at how do we get as many of our products, you know, on the system
08:58as possible,
08:59because we know that down the line consumers will be seeking it out.
09:02Thank you, Nelly, for this concrete example.
09:06Last but not least, let's talk with us, with you, sorry, Sébastien Badeau.
09:11We will talk about Wallet, because you are the Vice President of Metaverse and Web3 at Ledger.
09:17This is a leading organization in the development and procurement of crypto wallet to both individuals and companies.
09:25Can you tell us more about the role of crypto wallets and how they apply to the Metaverse?
09:34So, I mean, I think that Web3 and the Metaverse is the revolution of ownership, right?
09:38So we've gone from Web1, where you would log in with an email and a password, to Web2, where you
09:44would connect with Google or Facebook or Apple,
09:47which created some issues because you were giving away all your information.
09:50It was practical, but maybe it wasn't that great.
09:53And then Web3 is the wallet, right? It's connect with your wallet.
09:57So that means that, you know, the wallet plays a really important role,
10:03because it means that you're going to be able to own, finally, as Sébastien was saying,
10:08for the first time in the digital space, like the only thing that you could own up until now was
10:12a website, a domain name, right?
10:15Now you can actually own digital clothes, digital goods, potentially down the line digital music, all sorts of digital assets.
10:21Every cultural asset is going to become a token.
10:23It's going to be tokenized and it's going to be ownable by people.
10:26And so what we believe, and I think we all do here, is that, you know, as time goes by,
10:33we are all going to own more and more digital assets.
10:35And so the more you own, the more it is important to secure these assets, right?
10:40So that's what Ledger, you know, the role that Ledger plays, is that this wallet, what I'm wearing around my
10:45neck, is a cold storage wallet.
10:47And I can have all my digital assets here and then decide who I share them with and how I
10:51interact with different services, different brands and so forth and so on.
10:55So at the end of the day...
10:57And why the choice of a physical wallet for the middle of us?
11:00For security, because the reality is that Web2 software, I mean, Web2 and the internet is all software based and
11:06it's great.
11:07It's very simple of usage and everything, but it's not secure.
11:10And so Web3 value, which we are creating today, cannot be secured by Web2 hardware.
11:15So you need Web3 hardware, which is what we're building, to make sure that you're secure.
11:20So it's an added step, but it's really, really important to make sure that you have security in that space.
11:25I really believe and I think we really believe that there's two things that are holding back the progress of
11:31Web3.
11:32One of them is usability, making things more simple, more accessible for people.
11:36And the second one is security, because, you know, when you read the paper every week, there's issues with hacks
11:41and so forth and so on.
11:42That is not going to make people want to join the revolution.
11:46But if you make a world that's easy to use and that's secure, we'll have 5 billion people onto Web3.
11:53The confidence is very important.
11:55OK, so let's talk about the difference between centralized and decentralized metaverse impacts.
12:01How does it impact monetization, brands and creators?
12:06Can you please share your views?
12:10I don't know who wants to begin about that.
12:14We talk already together about centralized and decentralized metaverse, but what about the impact of monetization?
12:20Yeah.
12:22I think, for me, the concept that's fundamental is the concept of utility.
12:26People always spend money for something that's useful, and I think that's what we need.
12:30Of course, we care about the mechanics of making those transactions.
12:34You know, the abstract development.
12:35I mean, I fully agree with Sébastien, the way he described it.
12:37Abstracting ownership of a good from the platform.
12:40Fantastic.
12:41So we have to have the systems to do this.
12:43One conversation.
12:43As a conversation, how do we make content that's useful, that people want to buy, want to make money, and
12:48how that ability to move it to one platform actually brings value to the users?
12:53And I think we play a game because it's fun, not, you know, that's the reason why we play a
12:57game, because it's the entertainment value.
12:59So it's the one thing that we need to be, as an industry, we need to think about is how
13:03do we, with these new technologies, how we retain that, you know, that utility of the content and that entertainment
13:09value.
13:10I know that Sébastien has a preferred model.
13:13No?
13:14Am I wrong?
13:16No.
13:16Well, obviously, I'm going to preach in favor of decentralization.
13:21I agree with Marc on, like, the notion of, like, utility is really one very important aspect to draw value.
13:29And we're doing something that I believe so far the Sandbox is one of the only in the space to
13:35do, is, like, we're working hard to bring additional utility
13:39to assets that were actually not made in Sandbox.
13:43So you can already take all your NFTs, display them in Sandbox, use the creative possibility of our no-code
13:49game maker to build quests, build gamification mechanics,
13:53and then start interacting with them in new ways rather than just having collectible art or images.
13:59But we're going one step beyond that.
14:02We're also turning those, like, most of the time, NFTs being, like, 2D profile pictures into 3D playable characters that
14:11then come to life,
14:13have, like, a range of 70 more action and animation, meaning, like, instead of being a static image,
14:19it's suddenly a new representation of that digital asset that you own, becoming, like, your new expression, way of expressing
14:26yourself through an avatar.
14:27And it can run, it can jump, it can socialize with others, it can fight, it can dance.
14:32And that's, I think, like, the next step we needed towards, like, even collaborative creation of experiences.
14:40And that's, I think, the exciting aspect of the metaverse.
14:43We provide a tool, we provide the environment, and we let the community of Web3 come up with the content,
14:50the character that will populate those worlds
14:52and start building all those new type of experiences.
14:56And that's what communities are looking for in terms of value.
14:59And that's what I think one of the main utility we're going to see more and more for NFTs.
15:05And I think that, like, sorry, that interoperability is, like, key in everything that's being, that's what's happening.
15:12Because one of the issues that we have today in Web2 is that we're actually renting things, right?
15:16If I stop paying my Spotify subscription, I don't have access to my playlist anymore.
15:20I made these playlists, and they're amazing.
15:22I could lose them, imagine that.
15:26And at the end of the day, when we start having ownership, the amazing thing is to be able to
15:31port it over from one space to another.
15:33And that really, we create that ownership, but that only works in a decentralized and interoperable model.
15:38I think interoperability is really key.
15:40I agree.
15:41So I was going to say interoperability is very, very important.
15:45And especially for brands that are trying to engage in this space.
15:49To them, you still have to build a partnership with whatever the platform is, right?
15:54Whether it's centralized or decentralized, you want to understand kind of what works best for the users.
15:59And you still have to get your clients excited to participate in this ecosystem.
16:04So I think, you know, if we're here in maybe two years, I don't know if this question will be
16:09relevant, because I think we're seeing a blend of centralized and decentralized.
16:14Where even centralized platforms are giving their users some flexibility around, you know, what assets they use and how they
16:21can create.
16:22And decentralized platforms still have a degree of centralization in terms of things like usability, right?
16:29So how do you make something user friendly, easy to use?
16:32There's still some centralization that we're seeing even in Web3, which might be controversial, but it is happening.
16:37I don't know. Do you agree with that?
16:42I would say I partially agree.
16:46First of all, I think it's great to start seeing more and more brands entering the space of Web3 and
16:51experimenting.
16:52Like, we're at a key moment where I believe, at least for the 20 plus years of entrepreneurship I have,
16:58I've never seen so much innovation and experimentation in the space through that.
17:02It's great. It doesn't mean that everything that's being tried will be surviving, etc.
17:06But at least it's bringing some fresh air and everyone is trying towards defining what's next in terms of what
17:13will be successful.
17:15And most of the time, many brands will start launching content as NFT, but they forget what happens next.
17:24Like, what do we do with those NFTs that we created?
17:26So great. We have a community that can own those assets.
17:30But what do we do? Maybe we try to give them physical product that they can redeem in exchange.
17:35Maybe we can give them, like, discount of order access.
17:39So NFT gating is one common way. So they can have access to Aria Railway.
17:44I think, like, what Web3 and the Metaverse are trying to solve is, like, you know, you can enhance and
17:51provide even more creative possibilities to those communities
17:54because they can just socialize with those NFTs.
17:57They can create experiences and build their own world with your content.
18:02And you should encourage that.
18:04You should embrace user-generated content and you should even embrace that the community decide on its own what they
18:09want to do and what they offer.
18:10You even go as far as, like, losing control over what your NFT collection means means that anyone can start
18:18a project taking your NFTs and starting their own application or other services around it.
18:25And that's, to me, quite exciting somehow.
18:28Like, the losing of control is what is going to provide more creativity and value overall over time.
18:34I think there's two things I wanted to piggyback on on that is that I think it started already with
18:38Instagram, right?
18:39Because a lot of times brands could have a large following on Instagram, but it would be lower than some
18:44influencers that could take that brand, whatever, a bag, some clothes or whatever,
18:48and talk for the brand to many more followers than the actual brand could do.
18:55So giving up on some of the control already existed.
18:58And then the second piece, which I think is really important, is around creators.
19:01So you're talking about UGC, but it could also be in the revolution of decentralization.
19:07The idea also is to make things more fair and to make sure that creators get retributed for their work
19:13in a more transparent way.
19:15And also that a way that cannot be taken away.
19:17Tomorrow, I could be a YouTuber and have X million of viewers, et cetera, and I could have my channel
19:23taken away.
19:24Tomorrow, in a token-gated way, if I'm being paid in token, everything that cannot happen, it's immutable, it's on
19:30the blockchain.
19:30And so I think that that also is a revolution that's going to happen.
19:34And that's going to bring a lot of creators into the space.
19:37And that's what's going to make the space even more interesting for users.
19:40The fact that creators are there is going to make users want to come.
19:43Yeah, I think you bring up a really good point. Sorry.
19:46So that idea of like Instagram and how terrifying I think it was for brands to initially start having social
19:54media presences and working with influencers was so scary.
19:58And brands realize that there is a huge benefit to actually having ambassadors and using UGC, user-generated content, to
20:05promote the brand.
20:07So now that brands have seen that, now they're realizing, oh gosh, Web3 is coming.
20:11We don't want to be left behind the way we did for Web 2.0.
20:15So that's why I think we're seeing a lot more interest in Web3 and a much faster adoption curve than
20:21we did back then.
20:23Maybe the brands have to learn a little bit more to lose control. I don't know.
20:29But what about in Fortnite, you give public the tools to be autonomous?
20:35Yeah, so we have a whole...
20:38So I want to say something about centralized or decentralized because people have forgotten 2018.
20:43You know, we pioneer cross-play and cross-platform with a federated identity model.
20:48But there are federated models that could be, back to your point, a good blend, a good alternative to fully
20:53centralized.
20:53And so there's a lot of things to do.
20:57So back to the questions about tools, you know, we've actually said publicly that the tool to create content into
21:03Fortnite will be this Unreal Engine.
21:05And the Unreal Engine has been proven to be accepted, you know, by, you know, the most sophisticated content developer
21:13industry,
21:14whether it's our game developers or movie or, you know, in the agencies and the advertising space.
21:19But it's also being used by children to create games in Fortnite Creative.
21:23So I think that it's going to be very important. And Sandbox has some great tools.
21:28I mean, we need to work on those tools right now.
21:30Real-time 3D is a more complex form of media than digital video or digital pictures.
21:35So, and, you know, for the regulator and also for the, you know, in education, there is a great opportunity
21:41to teach our kids to grow their skills in real-time 3D.
21:44Because this is the medium of the future. And if they learn how to create that content, you know, they
21:49learn how to partake in this new economy.
21:51So those tools, some of it being provided by Epic, but, you know, also the tools from companies like Sandbox
21:56are really important.
21:58And will we have huge economic value moving forward?
22:01If I can add just one thing, I think the metaverse is also a technology revolution.
22:06And I think part of the technology is game engines, right? Like being able to do the things that you
22:10can do.
22:1115 or 20 years ago, I would have to develop my own game engine that would cost millions of dollars.
22:15And now I can use Unity or Unreal. I'd leave Unreal for you.
22:19Yeah, Unreal is free. That's the difference.
22:20But that's something that didn't exist before. And the model that you guys have created is one of the reasons
22:25why the metaverse has a chance to really emerge, technologically speaking.
22:28But it's true that it starts with entertainment industry. How is it possible to emerge, you know, to see emerging
22:38new activities on the metaverse? New application?
22:44Well, I can speak, you know, this week, we have your Satori in Paris, and the simulation industry, you know,
22:51we're learning in the metaverse.
22:54We're teaching, you know, robots and autonomous vehicles about the real world using, you know, this metaverse technology.
23:01So a lot of application. And again, if you believe that the core value is social, in the enterprise, it's
23:06called collaboration.
23:07So these are actually collaborative, you know, working platforms, and we are deploying the Unreal Engine.
23:12And, you know, in car companies, they do collaborative design reviews or in construction when they do those things.
23:18So there's a huge potential for that technology outside of social entertainment and commerce.
23:23I'm sure Nelly agrees with that.
23:25Absolutely. I mean, we're already starting to see use cases emerge even in the LVMH booth, right?
23:31For example, you know, with COVID, almost everything went into the metaverse, right?
23:35And it wasn't just about gaming.
23:37We worked, you know, remotely over Zoom, which is, you know, baby metaverse.
23:42There's a lot of conferences and events that happened, you know, on the screens of your laptop in immersive environments,
23:48even without necessarily, you know, VR headsets.
23:52And we're now also starting to see the emergence of B2B use cases around metaverse, too.
23:57So especially around the design process, iterating over, you know, architecture models, interior design, clothing, accessory design.
24:05All of that can be done with, you know, 3D content, 3D rendering with, you know, having nothing to do
24:11with gaming,
24:12but using the technology that is being invented, right, by Web3 and metaverse developers
24:17and then applying them to more enterprise use cases.
24:23Well, the thing I'd like to add is, like, how are we going to see more diverse kind of entertainment
24:29-related
24:29or education-related, job-related experience?
24:32The only way we are going to see that is, like, broadening the spectrum of who can be a creator.
24:37And ultimately, we want anyone to be a creator.
24:39So anyone has, like, its own imagination, his vision, and want to experiment with things.
24:46Epic with the Unreal Engine is doing really great on the high end of the spectrum.
24:51So, like, a lot of professionals in the industry can make, like, triple-A kind of production,
24:55but it's more, it's not so accessible to, like, the mainstream audience.
24:59So Fortnite creator has been doing a great job here on making it more casual, more mainstream, and accessible.
25:05But still, I think, like, if we want to enlarge from all the 3 billion gamers to, what, 7 billion
25:14gamers or creators, actually,
25:17we need to even lower even more and even more and even more that barrier to entry.
25:23And that's what we're forcing ourselves to do by having tools where you don't even need to start learning a
25:29programming language to start creating.
25:31Those no-code creation tools, they are now being taught at schools.
25:35And when I see even the younger generation, like, integrating the notion of game design, iterative thinking,
25:42and using computer software to give life to their idea rather than necessarily manipulating physical objects,
25:51then we'll start seeing interesting things.
25:54And we're starting to see interesting things also because we let brands experiment.
25:59We let people, and we accept more the diversity of content we're seeing in those digital platforms.
26:06So what used to be considered, like, this is not a game.
26:09What kind of thing is that?
26:11Now we're seeing more and more, like, art galleries, museums, concerts, virtual shows,
26:17people creating games in Roblox, and they are becoming hugely popular,
26:21more popular than some of the top-grossing games on app stores.
26:25So it's quite interesting to always wonder, like, what makes an experience, what makes a game,
26:30and do not stay on the position, like, be open-minded to it.
26:35I totally agree with that.
26:36I think it's absolutely critical to have people of all sorts of backgrounds, experiences,
26:42be able to build Web3, right?
26:45So we have this diversity of thought.
26:47What I feel really passionate about is this idea of having other types of creators
26:52now transition into the world of 3D, right?
26:56So similarly to what we saw with first desktop publishing, right?
27:00It used to be very manual, and then we had publisher, right?
27:04Then we had InDesign, and so you had people who used to do, like, manually arrange letters, right?
27:10Can now do kerning in an app.
27:12So in this particular instance, I'm really excited to start seeing architects and fashion designers
27:18actually start learning 3D skills as well, and bring the, basically, the sensibilities that they've developed,
27:26you know, a sensitivity to materials, to emotion, to environment design.
27:31How do you bring that into 3D and use now digital tools to create the types of experiences, you know,
27:39that they did in the real world?
27:40So for example, you know, at LVMH, we very recently had Virgil Abloh and the Nike collaboration in Brooklyn,
27:47and, you know, the team that actually used to design Windows was involved in designing that exhibit,
27:54and there was a huge digital component to it.
27:56So they were able to bring, basically, the skills that they've learned in one discipline, and apply it to the
28:02other,
28:02which I think is really exciting.
28:04Sébastien Varou.
28:04Yeah, I wanted to say that the next thing also is to think about the next generation,
28:09because the kids today who are 10, 12, 15, and they're using Minecraft, Roblox, Sandbox, and Fortnite.
28:16First of all, the thing that Fortnite has done, which is really amazing, is that it's made digital ownership,
28:23I mean, even though we can debate whether it's real ownership or not, but the fact that you would actually
28:28pay for a sword or for a skin, okay.
28:31So when I was a kid, I used to spend my money buying records because that was my way to
28:35signal to my friends that I was cool,
28:37or at least I thought I was cool.
28:40My kids don't own any records.
28:42The only record they own is because I bought it for them.
28:44I don't think they've ever played it, right, because they have Spotify.
28:46But they buy skins, they buy swords, that's their way to signal.
28:50So that's the first revolution.
28:51For them, owning digital assets is natural, it's normal, it's a way to signal.
28:56And then the second thing is that in the games that they play, as Sébastien was saying, they're creating.
29:01So they are, because they are given the tools, they are creating.
29:05And a lot of times, us as adults, we're like, you're spending too much time on screens.
29:08But a lot of the things that they are doing is actually incredibly creative.
29:11Even on TikTok, when they're making videos, it's a creation.
29:13So we're creating, well, we're not creating, they're creating themselves, a new generation of creators.
29:19And given the right tools and given the openness, God knows what they're going to come up with.
29:24But it's going to be revolutionary, I believe.
29:27So, revolution.
29:29Finally, how do you see our physical world coexisting with the metaverse in the future?
29:36And what does it mean for brands, for creators and customers?
29:40Well, I think Nelly called it out already.
29:42I mean, the first thing to do to be in the metaverse is to have your products, a digital version
29:47of your products.
29:47So I think the call to action for the brands and for the enterprise is learn how to create that
29:52real-time 3D content.
29:54Learn how to create your products in the metaverse, whether it's, you know, a pair of shoes, a car, a
29:59handbag.
29:59I think it starts right there.
30:01And then, you know, you can start thinking about using those platforms.
30:05But I think, you know, it's, we need, the industry needs to build these bones and muscles around creating those
30:10digital twins.
30:11That's hugely important.
30:13Sebastian?
30:19I think, like, what's interesting is, like, how we connect real-world content with virtual world content.
30:27And for me, that connection is not necessarily on the physical product itself or physical, sometimes it's being called.
30:34It's all about the culture.
30:36Like, what the physical, what the brands are like, what the content are like in the real world means to
30:41me in the virtual world.
30:42And they don't need to be, like, the same mirror kind of content.
30:48And also not separate.
30:51Maybe.
30:52Well, I think, like, why not?
30:55Like, there is an interesting approach here.
30:58Like, you have this chance to finally redefine the total brand and the total representation it can have online and
31:05the audience that it reaches to in a quite unique manner.
31:09For me, it's an opportunity that you should say, not necessarily try to mimic the real world.
31:15To reinvent the brand.
31:16Yes?
31:17Let's make the virtual world more imaginative, more creative again.
31:23And do not try to replicate the cliché of the real world.
31:27Like, what failed with Second Life 25 years ago?
31:30Or almost any virtual world that tried to replicate the real world is, like, there was no magic in there.
31:36It was pretty boring.
31:37Like, why would I want to go into a virtual world that's a lesser version of the physical world?
31:43Yeah, my pet peeve is when they put chairs in the metaverse and banks.
31:47Like, I'm not trying to pay bills and I don't need to sit down.
31:50So what else could you do in the metaverse that is not the literal representation?
31:54I think you could do something...
31:55Or lamp posts.
31:56Why are there lamp posts in the metaverse?
31:58There's no light to be in the hat, right?
31:59I just want, like, Glow from Aurora Borealis to follow me everywhere.
32:03Nothing breaks, nothing ages.
32:07But I think that what's interesting in terms of products, what Web2 created in some ways, especially around products, is
32:18direct-to-consumer brands.
32:19So when Shopify started developing and other applications that allow you to basically do plug-and-play e-commerce or
32:26just, like, sell through Instagram,
32:28well, it created thousands of people who were like, hey, I got an idea for a brand.
32:31And before, it would have been really complicated to do it and now you can plug-and-play.
32:34And obviously, there's incredible success stories of brands that became billion-dollar brands direct-to-consumer, which didn't exist before.
32:40So what I think is going to happen and is starting to happen, and we've talked to a few of
32:45them, is, you know, metaverse-only brands, right?
32:48That may not have a physical representation, but will do something that's just metaverse-based.
32:53And we'll see how people react to them.
32:55But if they...
32:55I think it all goes back to community-building.
32:58I think that one of the strengths that we're seeing, especially in the NFT space, which we also follow very
33:03closely, is this creation of these amazing communities.
33:07And I think that in the metaverse, we're going to see that as well.
33:09And some of these communities might be around metaverse-native brands.
33:13Yeah, and I think, you know, we talked about having digital extensions of your physical product.
33:18But I think there's still a huge opportunity around augmented reality and metaverse.
33:23Like, we haven't really talked about it here.
33:25You know, that's a big conversation that's happening in this space is, is AR actually going to be, you know,
33:30the killer app of metaverse in 3D?
33:33Because you don't have that friction of either needing a super powerful laptop to render it or some kind of
33:39headset over your head.
33:42And so I think the ability to see additional digital information, objects, you know, something beautiful around you is really
33:50interesting.
33:51You know, we've seen projects from, you know, fashion overlays to even giant urban design projects in AR that basically
33:59aim to use augmented reality to make your neighborhood, your city more beautiful and improve the well-being of everyone
34:06within it.
34:07So I think those projects are really exciting.
34:09I think the challenge is we still haven't found the winning piece of hardware that will get us there, right?
34:16We got the iPhone, which was a huge shift in how we interacted, you know, with technology.
34:22We got apps, you know, we got widgets.
34:24And with AR, it's still not quite there.
34:27Because you can do it with your phone, but people are still not, right?
34:30You could literally, like, pull out your phone and, like, see this room transformed.
34:34But something about human behavior just isn't really letting us do that.
34:38So I think I'm still waiting for some beautiful piece of hardware that's not obtrusive, not creepy, doesn't ruin my
34:45hair when I put it on.
34:47And I think that will kind of shift us into metaverse.
34:50I think that a technology...
34:52AR could be the killer app, just...
34:55You know, I want to say, but I do believe that we need, you know, an augmented world, an augmented
35:00reality, not a lesser reality.
35:02But I think it's, you know, I'm hopeful of the glasses, but I think, you know, every glass, piece of
35:08glass in our life can become a screen now with the technology that we have with the cloud streaming.
35:12So we could wake up in the morning in our windows and see content, you know, remember the intro to
35:17Total Recall, and our windshields are becoming surface to display data.
35:21So I think, for me, the metaverse is digital content invading our real lives, you know, more than us isolating
35:27ourselves to go into some sort of virtual world.
35:29So I think that augmentation of reality is a fundamental aspect and can bring a lot of value and utility
35:35to every one of us.
35:36And it's not just the glasses.
35:38I mean, we'll see it everywhere.
35:39Those screens cost nothing now.
35:41Okay, they don't display interactive content.
35:43Next time at VivaTech, we want interactive content on those screens.
35:46Exactly.
35:47And I think that's the challenge, I think, to the tech platforms that are out there is how do you
35:52create the rails so that the same piece of digital content you can use in a world like Sandbox and
35:59interact with it and somehow have it also, you know, be viewed in an augmented reality way.
36:05And I think this is where the infrastructure comes into place and the whole time that, you know, 3D content
36:10that, you know, might be created on like Unreal 5, 6, 17, I don't know where we'll be, secured on,
36:16right, your wallet.
36:17And that can be used both in an immersive 3D metaverse and in augmented reality.
36:22I think this kind of seamless interaction is my dream.
36:25So let's see where we are in the next couple of years.
36:28I was going to say that the idea of a technology revolution, it has to be linked at one point
36:33or another to magic, right?
36:34The first time that somebody must have seen like a light bulb go up, they must have been like, oh,
36:38my God, this is freaking amazing.
36:40Or the person that got the first phone call, oh, my God, I cannot believe I can listen to my
36:44neighbors like next door.
36:45And we haven't seen that in the metaverse yet.
36:48Like, and going back to your point, Sebastian, like what we're trying to do is replicate, you know, what we
36:53see in real life, but except not as good.
36:55That's not magic.
36:56So what we will see at one point or another is something we'll be like, wow, this is really incredible.
37:01And that hasn't happened yet.
37:02Okay, maybe in the audience, some people have tried, you know, in your booth, LVMH, the VR meter experience.
37:11How do you see the future of LVMH?
37:16In the metaverse, of course.
37:17Yeah, I think it's really interesting to think about LVMH because the history of the brand, right, is rooted in
37:23the past.
37:24But at the same time, the brands have always been innovative, right?
37:27There's constantly new patents.
37:30So, for example, the Octo Finissimo Ultra Watch has eight patents.
37:33So the brands are constantly innovating.
37:35There is no separating, I think, luxury brands or any brands from technology.
37:40Like, there's no way you're going to get around it.
37:42So I think every technology company is trying to kind of get into retail and product and vice versa.
37:49Every retail company is trying to become a tech company.
37:51And so LVMH Maisons, you can see that already, are experimenting just across the board, right?
37:58Is it consumer facing?
37:59Is it, you know, B2B facing?
38:01How are we using it to optimize our internal processes?
38:04And how are we using it to reach our clients where they are?
38:07And where they are more and more is in the metaverse.
38:10And so I think we'll start seeing a lot more projects come to life over the next couple of years.
38:17To be perfectly frank, I think we have to be honest about where we are in terms of adoption.
38:22The audience is still very, very niche.
38:25And so the more we have, you know, older audiences, women, people of color, kind of embracing Web3,
38:32that will make a lot more sense for brands then to embrace it because that's where the client is.
38:37Because right now the challenge is we have to educate the client on Web3.
38:41How do you set up a wallet? You know, when is the white glove service coming?
38:45So there's a little bit of tension between where Web3 is now and what I think the consumer expects in
38:50terms of ease of use and friction.
38:52And so we're constantly experimenting, testing and learning.
38:57And, you know, over the years we'll absolutely scale the efforts.
38:59Thank you very much.
39:01I don't have time to ask you about your future in the metaverse, but it's for next time.
39:05Thank you. Thank you very much to you, Nelly, Sébastien, Marc and Sébastien, for this insightful conversation about economics of
39:15the metaverse.
39:16So it's time to take a short break again.
39:18We will be back in a few minutes for our last session entitled Metaverse Governance Rewriting Regulations.
39:25See you in a few minutes. Thank you.
39:26Thank you.
39:27Thank you.
39:27Thank you.
39:28Thank you.
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