- il y a 23 heures
The Ethics of AI
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00:00Good afternoon, this is a very very important moment in our afternoon first because it's so rare
00:09to have Audre Azoulay
00:12at a tech conference
00:16Just thinking it's maybe the first time
00:20That you are going to a tech conference and it's a great pleasure. Thank you and all day is
00:26the managing director of UNESCO
00:30This
00:31Maybe you can say what UNESCO is all about because I'm not sure it's part of our daily life
00:37But I'm not sure that everyone knows exactly what UNESCO is all about. Thank you. Thank you Maurice
00:42And thanks for having me in this wonderful conference, and you're right. Maybe people are surprised
00:48to see UNESCO in a discussion about
00:51AI
00:53Usually people know UNESCO about culture
00:56The World Heritage Site
00:58The Protection of Cultural Diversity
01:01But UNESCO, you know, it's the UN institution
01:05Created after the Second World War
01:08To support peace, lasting peace, and to support the cooperation of the international community
01:15On education, culture, the science, and freedom of expression
01:21And this organization, so it's intergovernmental, but we work with a civil society all around the world
01:29And we have 193 member states and we are based in Paris
01:34So you can imagine what privilege we have to have the director general of UNESCO
01:45So, Audrey, I would like to thank you very warmly because it's a great, great honor for all of us
01:51And as you said, UNESCO is
01:57At least for what we understand from the outside, it's about the peace, about culture, it's about protection
02:04And it's difficult to imagine that UNESCO can be involved in AI
02:11And following on the steps of Eric and Jan's conversation
02:18I would like to understand what led you to get involved in AI
02:25And what is the area that you want to protect?
02:32Yes, so the first, maybe the first link with AI is our mandate on science
02:39And this also goes back to why UNESCO was created
02:45We were just after the Second World War
02:48And the idea of the founding members was to always link education, science, culture with human rights
02:57With human dignity
02:59The contrary to what had happened during the Second World War, during Nazism
03:04And at the very beginning of UNESCO, science was present so that the member states would cooperate on great scientific
03:16projects
03:17For instance, the CERN that everybody knows, the Institute on Nuclear Research in Europe
03:25Was created by UNESCO with this idea that if countries would cooperate on science
03:32They would be less likely, less prone to wage wars, to be into conflicts
03:38This was in the 50s
03:40But even like recently, we created, we helped create a synchrotron light beam
03:48A huge investment as well in Jordan
03:52A major scientific investment with all the countries of the Middle East
03:57Some countries that usually don't sit at the same table
04:00Sometimes that don't have diplomatic relation
04:03But through science, we help them cooperate and have links
04:08And the researchers get to know each other
04:11And like the musicians, they speak the same language
04:14The language of science
04:15And this mandate on science
04:19Also led us to
04:21When there was major innovation in the field of science
04:25To build ethical framework for them
04:28And maybe before AI, the main moment in this history of ethics of science
04:36Was in the 90s
04:39When there was a common declaration
04:42Negotiated by the whole international community at UNESCO
04:46On the human genomy
04:48And the ethical principles around the human genomy
04:52What is acceptable, what is desirable, what is not acceptable
04:57In terms of research or project with the human genomy
05:00And this is still today a reference
05:03When there are experiments
05:06Even though the declaration is not biding
05:09It's still the reference when sometimes the international community
05:12The researchers or the civil society
05:15Thinks that one experiment is not compatible with those ethical principles
05:23And we've applied the same reasoning to AI
05:26So people are fearing that AI one day will replace human beings
05:33That AI will play a role beyond just production or help
05:39And is it the kind of situation which has led you to say
05:47Okay, we should create a kind of code of ethics
05:52In order that AI stay on track
05:56And doesn't go off-road
05:59And change or do things that could hurt humanity
06:04It's absolutely this idea
06:09So it's a major innovation that opens
06:14And we're still, I think, at the beginning of that
06:16Major things that are for the better
06:18And in science, in medicine
06:22I mean, there are so many good things coming from AI
06:25And at UNESCO, we use it as well in our field
06:28Like for the rebuilding of cultural heritage after conflicts
06:32We use AI
06:33We know all the good that can come from that
06:35But we also see that there are problems already in the way it is built
06:42Like the biases of society that are imported by design in our AI system
06:48Be it the data collection
06:52Be it the design of the algorithm
06:55Be it the question of the possibility to attribute responsibility
07:00In some decisions
07:02The necessity for transparency
07:04All these questions have to be dealt with
07:08And the idea for us was that we needed to have a code of conduct at international level
07:16Because there have been already at national, regional level, some kind of code of conduct
07:23But we believed and I believed that we needed an international reference
07:29And this is why when I joined UNESCO in 2018
07:34The beginning
07:35At my first board, I put this on the table
07:38And it took a long time for the member states to discuss
07:42The principles
07:43Not only the member states
07:44There was a huge consultation
07:46Maybe some of you here participated in this
07:49In this conversation
07:51I know some of the previous panelists did
07:55From the technological companies
07:58The networks, the universities
08:00All this
08:01And we've managed after two years of negotiation
08:05To have a vote of our member states last November
08:08On this recommendation
08:11Which is a little more in our norms than a declaration
08:15A recommendation with those values, principles
08:19That the member states have agreed on
08:24And that we will follow up with them
08:27So it is about respect, protection, promotion of human rights
08:33A thriving environment and ecosystems
08:36Ensuring, so I see that there are ten principles
08:39So this is very important
08:42Is it something which is just an indication
08:46How people should behave
08:48Or is it an incitation
08:52An incentive at least
08:54To push governments
08:57To adapt those rules
08:59To their legal environment
09:01Actually it should be both
09:04Because we hope that it will also inspire
09:07The business community
09:09And it is supposed to inspire
09:11National or regional regulators
09:14Standard setters
09:16That can have this reference
09:18They can go beyond
09:19But they shouldn't do less than that
09:22And when we had the negotiation on this principle
09:26Believe me, we've had very tough discussions
09:28Because we have very different views
09:30In the world
09:31On the question of privacy
09:33Or mass surveillance
09:34Or how you can use or not AI
09:37But at least we've managed to have this standard
09:40And every four years
09:44The member states will have to report
09:47On how they've implemented
09:49Which means even if it's not an obligation
09:52They will have to justify if they went away from those principles
09:57So it's to build also a culture of ethics
10:01A culture of respect for human rights
10:04In this environment
10:05So it's a set of rules
10:08That should be applied
10:10In all the countries
10:13Depending on the will of the country to do it or not
10:17And this has been approved
10:19And this has been approved by how many countries
10:33It's not only a question of governments
10:36It's been built
10:38With experts of the field
10:41With universities
10:42With young people from around the world
10:45That's why the dialogue
10:46The process itself
10:48Was important
10:49And it also helped us
10:51You know
10:51One of the things
10:53That was very important for us
10:55In this work
10:56Was the question of gender bias
10:58Be it in the data
11:00Or in the number of AI scientists
11:03That are mostly men
11:05There is I think
11:0722% of women in the sector of AI
11:12And this reflects on what we design
11:15So then we can also
11:17Building on this
11:19If we want to be
11:21To have AI that are not gender biased
11:24To also work on education
11:26Education for women in science
11:29For women in mathematics
11:30Women in engineering
11:31So this also leads to that
11:33So you mean that
11:37The people of Meta
11:39The people of Google
11:42Apple, etc
11:44Have contributed
11:46Absolutely
11:47And they will be adopting those rules
11:49They have participated
11:51They were consulted
11:53Facebook
11:53Absolutely
11:55Google as well
11:56Microsoft
11:56As well
11:57And we hope that there will be
11:59A pressure
12:00From also civil society
12:02If everybody
12:03You know
12:04Knows this recommendation
12:05And when we will ask
12:08Every four years
12:10To see what is happening
12:11In some countries
12:12About these principles
12:13This will be
12:14You know
12:15A standard
12:16It's not directly binding
12:18It's not a convention
12:20It's not international law
12:22In itself
12:23But it's a reference
12:26It's a set of rules
12:28That we are recommended
12:30This is quite impressive
12:31Because
12:32Every time that we hear about UNESCO
12:36It is to protect that city
12:38Or this legacy of two or three million
12:44Millennium ago
12:46And here we are in the future
12:49What are the other areas
12:51That are of interest
12:53For the future of UNESCO
12:56Many
12:57But I'd say one
12:59Which was at the heart
13:01Of the creation of UNESCO
13:02And which is an issue
13:03And which is an issue of the future
13:04And an issue of this discussion
13:06Education
13:08Education
13:08Education
13:09Education
13:10This is something
13:11We can't agree more
13:12We have seen a lot of things
13:15Happening on education
13:17And if you have time
13:19I suggest that you go to the Indian
13:23Pavilion
13:24And you speak with the people
13:26Regarding how they have spread education
13:29In English
13:31And in other areas
13:33With these incredible tools
13:36That they have developed
13:38Education is clearly the future of the world
13:42Audrey
13:43You are here with the tech people
13:48What is the message that you have
13:50You want to send them
13:53And what do you want them to do?
13:56I see a lot of young people
13:59And usually the young people understand very well
14:02What UNESCO is about
14:04And I want to tell you
14:06Whatever you'll be doing
14:08Your activities, your companies
14:11All the things that you would create
14:14Think common good
14:16Think
14:17How can I help to have a sustainable future?
14:21Think with ethics
14:22And with this
14:24We're all friends
14:25And we'll be good
14:26Thank you
14:27So thank you
14:29Merci beaucoup
14:31On aurait du faire cette conversation en français
14:34C'est vrai
14:34Ça aurait été beaucoup mieux pour nous deux
14:36C'est vrai
14:37Mais je pense que ça aurait gêné pas mal l'audience
14:39En tous les cas Audrey
14:40Formidable
14:42C'est un moment de fraîcheur
14:45Que de voir que l'UNESCO s'intéresse au futur
14:47Et pas seulement aux vieilles pierres
14:49Merci beaucoup
14:51Merci beaucoup
14:53Merci
14:54Audrey Azoulay
14:56Directeur général
14:57Of UNESCO
14:58Merci
14:59Merci
14:59Merci
14:59Merci
14:59Merci
14:59Merci
14:59Merci
14:59Merci
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