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EoM Senior Interviewer Thomas Manning recently spoke with Emmy-winning composer Denise Santos about her career. Santos talks about working in various genres and mediums, the importance of telling the stories that are often overlooked, and why she loves dark comedy.
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Denise Santos is an Emmy-winning Filipino musician and composer based in Los Angeles, California. Having previously worked as in-house composer at Hans Zimmer and Sony/ATV's Bleeding Fingers Music, her music has been heard in a multitude of movies and tv shows, most recently in "Island of the Sea Wolves" (Netflix), "Eden: Untamed Planet" (BBC America), and "Primates" (BBC One/PBS), for which she was awarded the 2021 News & Doc Emmy for Outstanding Music Composition. That same year, she was also awarded the ASCAP Foundation Michelle & Dean Kay Award for emerging composers in the LA area, recognizing her body of work and promising career. Largely influenced by classical, orchestral, rock, and pop music, Denise loves to blend these different genres to create uniquely powerful compositions that help uplift diverse stories, filmmakers, and creators.
www.denise-santos.com/
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Denise Santos is an Emmy-winning Filipino musician and composer based in Los Angeles, California. Having previously worked as in-house composer at Hans Zimmer and Sony/ATV's Bleeding Fingers Music, her music has been heard in a multitude of movies and tv shows, most recently in "Island of the Sea Wolves" (Netflix), "Eden: Untamed Planet" (BBC America), and "Primates" (BBC One/PBS), for which she was awarded the 2021 News & Doc Emmy for Outstanding Music Composition. That same year, she was also awarded the ASCAP Foundation Michelle & Dean Kay Award for emerging composers in the LA area, recognizing her body of work and promising career. Largely influenced by classical, orchestral, rock, and pop music, Denise loves to blend these different genres to create uniquely powerful compositions that help uplift diverse stories, filmmakers, and creators.
www.denise-santos.com/
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Short filmTranscript
00:00Hi and welcome into EOM Presents. I'm Thomas Manning, Senior Interviewer for Elements of Madness, and recently had a great conversation with composer Denise Santos.
00:08She's an Emmy-winning composer, and we talk a little bit about really the entire trajectory of her career and a lot of the diverse projects she's worked on
00:17and how she's worked in documentaries and in animation and narrative filmmaking.
00:23And she's also had the privilege of having some of her music compositions performed by the Philippines Philharmonic Orchestra.
00:31And so we get a little bit into all of that, and I really enjoy the conversation talking to Denise.
00:36Thanks so much for watching and listening, and I hope you enjoy.
00:38So I know you've composed for documentaries and animation and musicals and also narrative films.
00:45So is there a particular style of music composition that you gravitate toward more than the others, or do you appreciate all of them for different reasons?
00:53I appreciate all of them for different reasons. I grew up listening to all of them, so I feel like every time I get a chance to do something different, I'm just accessing a different memory.
01:07So I love all of them, honestly. And I think it also makes my work interesting because I don't get bored in that sense.
01:16I feel like I feel like there's always something new when I'm switching genres.
01:22And then also if I'm moving to a different genre, I feel like being inspired from the different one that I just came out of also adds a new flavor to the new one that I'm working on.
01:34So yeah.
01:34And I know that you have a lot of roots in Filipino pop music, and that's been very influential for you.
01:43So how does that inspire your music style, and how has that continued to evolve over the course of your career?
01:50Well, basically, the Filipino pop music that I grew up on is, if I could relate that to what people would identify with, it's like singer-songwriter.
02:04So I do gravitate a lot towards the same chords sometimes from Filipino pop music.
02:13And then also, aside from Filipino pop music, I've also surrounded myself around a lot of Filipino ethnic music when I was living there.
02:22So it's very percussive, and I really love writing percussion.
02:28I think it's because of that memory and that influence.
02:31But then there's also the guitar.
02:34And as you can see, I love playing guitar because it's very prominent in Filipino, in the Filipino music that I grew up on.
02:44So I feel like I try to infuse a lot of that into my writing.
02:50Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned the guitar, and there's quite the stack behind you there.
02:55And I know that your physical studio setup is an interesting one, and you use multiple instruments and software.
03:03So I want to give you a chance to share a little bit about that process for our audience, and how that continues to play a big part in your music composition.
03:14So yeah, I'm mainly a piano player, actually.
03:20But guitar is probably like my secondary instrument.
03:25But nowadays, my main instrument is my computer, as I'm sure all the composers out there can relate to.
03:32I use Logic, so I mainly produce through Logic, and I use a lot of virtual instruments.
03:41But when I'm really starting out the writing process, I go one of two approaches.
03:50One is first drafting out something on the piano or the guitar, and really finding a strong identity for the project, whether it's a strong melody or a strong chord structure that I can kind of come back to as a sort of motif or theme.
04:08And sometimes other projects are more sound design-based, so I will approach the beginnings of those projects by going through all my libraries, going through all my synths, and finding sounds or creating sounds or a collection of sounds that match the project.
04:31And then I'll start from the sound palette, and then come up with melodies from there.
04:37So it's either skeleton first, and then the rest of the meat, or meat first, and then just inserting the core of it.
04:48So yeah, it's one of two ways, really.
04:53And you definitely write a lot of music individually, but I know you also have experience working in collaborative environments.
05:00Working with Bleeding Fingers Music.
05:04So how do those experiences compare when you're working with a team compared to just working individually and mostly doing things on your own?
05:14Well, working with a team has been really helpful in terms of tackling bigger projects.
05:20And with bigger projects, there's also tighter turnaround deadlines.
05:24So I've really enjoyed doing that because, like, it really feels like you're not alone in the pressure of it, in the stress of it.
05:34Like, you're sharing that moment with someone.
05:37And it's not just a co-writer that's in the team.
05:39There's a producer, and there's our assistants and music editors.
05:46So it definitely feels more like you're doing it, it feels very collaborative in that sense.
05:54And then versus doing it on my own, it definitely will take longer.
05:59But then I also feel like the difference there is that I don't have to be too conscious about sounding similar or uniform with another person.
06:14Like, I can just go do stuff that I would do as myself and not have to think of the unifying, like, sound between me and my other co-writer.
06:25So I love both approaches.
06:27And eventually, like, I don't really think working as an individual is ideal.
06:35It's always, it would be great to always be part of a team.
06:39Because, like I said, like, the stress gets pretty high.
06:43And having a team to, like, be on the same mission with you is always really nice.
06:49So, yeah, I have no preference.
06:53I like doing both of them.
06:54It's just a matter of, like, when is this due and how much music do we need to write, right?
06:58And I know something that's really important for you just generally as an artist and as a person is to work with people from diverse backgrounds and, you know, tell the stories, sometimes tell the stories that aren't often told or sometimes overlooked.
07:14So I just want to make sure to give you the opportunity to speak a little bit more on how important that is for you and just, you know, the joy you find in that.
07:22I'm the kind of person who, if you put me in a room, in a party, for example, I will gravitate towards the person, the other person who's sitting by themselves or has no one or is not currently talking to someone.
07:45And it's the person who's, like, not the center of the life of the party.
07:48And I feel like it's maybe because I feel like I'm also so introverted that I would rather talk to someone who's just as introverted as I am.
08:02But I'm really interested in the people who don't always have the opportunity to speak.
08:08And throughout the years of socializing and meeting new people, some of the most interesting people I've met are the ones who aren't the loudest.
08:19So I definitely feel like that translates to the kinds of stories that I also want to tell because the loudest people, they already have that platform.
08:29And, you know, it's also great that they're also able to tell their stories already.
08:34But I like to go to people who don't have the opportunity to speak of their experiences.
08:41And on a broader scale, too, it's not just about introvert versus extrovert.
08:46It's also obviously about underrepresented people, minorities.
08:50And I feel like there's a lot of really interesting stories underneath what people typecast us towards.
09:00So I really am passionate about looking for stories like that and helping tell stories like that.
09:09Because, yeah, like I said, these stories haven't been told yet.
09:14And in a world where there's just constant media, constant content being created, there's so much room for what hasn't been told yet.
09:27So I'm really that's what I'm looking for.
09:32Thank you so much for sharing that.
09:33And I wholeheartedly agree that a lot of the people with the most interesting stories are people that, you know, they've just been kind of carrying that with them this whole time and not told anybody.
09:44But then once you actually have a conversation with them, you're like, oh, my goodness, where in the world did this come from?
09:49So I love that.
09:50Yeah, sometimes people also just need to be asked or prompted the right questions.
09:55So I like being able to bring out those from people as well.
10:00Exactly.
10:01And I also want to spend a little bit of time talking about some of your specific projects.
10:06And I know you've worked in nature documentaries.
10:10And I think if you look at the past couple of decades of, you know, the music and nature documentaries, there's almost this pre-established expectation of how that music should sound.
10:21So how do you embrace that, but also still infuse your own creativity and try new things in those compositions?
10:28Well, funnily enough, the nature documentaries that I've scored, I feel like don't have the typical mold of a nature documentary score.
10:41But obviously, I've also had to merge with what is normally accepted, because that's obviously what producers and directors look for.
10:52However, I've been fortunate enough to work on documentaries that are trying to be different from usual, but not too different.
11:03So, like, for example, the very first nature documentary I did, Primates, we pretty much, we were trying to go for less of the grand, what everybody knows, the grand, like, overwhelming, beautiful, big, lush score.
11:23And we went the opposite direction, and we said, let's try to make this a little bit more intimate, and let's try to make this quirky and sound design-y ASMR-y.
11:36So I think that was such a fun experience to be able to apply a lot of my pop influence, but then also still be in the nature documentary space.
11:52So that was fun to navigate, it being my first, also, I was a little bit overwhelmed, I was like, well, we need to sound huge, we need to sound like, you know, the big orchestral.
12:06So I tried quite hard to go there only to, by the end of the project, only to realize that that's not what we were looking for, that's not what we were going for.
12:17So I had a lot of fun meeting my expectations, meeting the director and producer's expectations, realizing that it's somewhere, like, in between of who I already am, and what is currently, like, what the sound is, so that they're not too different from each other.
12:38So I loved doing that, and then the second one, sorry, I've worked on three, so the second one was Eden, Untamed Planet, and that one was straight up orchestral, it was huge, and I had a lot of fun doing that, because I really got to challenge myself and practice this larger-than-life sound.
12:58And then the third one, which is Island of the Sea Wolves, again, it was Americana-inspired, because it was based in Vancouver, Vancouver Island, so it had a lot of, I got to utilize a lot of my guitars, like, I actually bought a resonator from my friend for that project specifically, and I got to use a lot of that.
13:23I got to use my mandolin, I got to use, actually, I got to infuse some of my, I have this Filipino lute, it's like a two-string lute, I'd love to show you, actually.
13:34Oh, absolutely, by all means.
13:36It's called a Hegalong.
13:38Okay.
13:38So, it's got this, like, very high, bright sound, and it twangs a little bit, so I kind of got to, I got to use it in an Americana setting, while at the same time, like, using something of my own heritage, so I enjoyed that.
14:03So, as you can see, like, all three projects, it's not a one approach to all of them, so I enjoy, I think, looking for, like, how can I make this different than the mold, and how can I make this different than what I had already done, so it's all different, and I love it.
14:22That's incredible, I love it, and also, you kind of alluded to this earlier in the conversation, talking about the different genres you worked in within narrative film, so recently, you've worked on everything from kind of dramedy to sci-fi to, you know, dark comedy, so how has this challenged you to, I guess, step a little bit outside of your comfort zone and try different stuff, and, you know, what have you enjoyed about that experience?
14:52Well, actually, that's the, those three that you mentioned are actually, like, my favorite genres, so even though I'd come from this, like, a lot of nature documentaries, when I jumped into the dark comedy film that I'm working on, and this sci-fi thriller, it wasn't so much of a stretch for me, it was almost like a coming home to me, because, like, it felt so natural for me to,
15:22write the music for it, like, write the music for it, like, dark comedy is one of my favorite genres, because I get to access, like, the darkness of it, but then I also get to access the quirkiness of it, and I think with dark comedy, also, there's a lot of room for melody, and I love melody, so I feel like it was just, for me, like, this, I get to be me,
15:47So it was, it wasn't a stretch for me at all, so I definitely loved coming home to those genres
15:55Yeah, honestly, I think dark comedy is probably my favorite genre as well, it's one that I find myself gravitating toward, and it just kind of captures a lot of how I see the world, so, yeah, I love the way you said that feels like coming home, that's great
16:10Yeah, because I love, I watch a lot of dark comedy, so, it was so natural for me to do it, and same, like, to echo what you just said, it does reflect a lot of how I see the world, I, I toggle between two states, I'm either really dark and sad almost, but on the other hand, I'm like, I'm trying to find humor in everything, and this is like, this is, it's me
16:39So, I guess, who are some of your favorite filmmakers who kind of tell those stories that are in that, in that light, do you have any that come to mind?
16:48I love the Daniels, I mean, I definitely feel like they've captured all, I mean, not just darkness and light, but everything else around it, too
17:00So, I love them, and there's this filmmaker that I've worked with before, her name is Leslie Alejandro, she's one of my favorites, because I think also she captures dark themes and is able to inject comedy to it
17:15And she also, she's Filipina as well, so I just feel like we're so in sync when it comes to vision
17:23And we've, like, we've worked on this project before, she did this film called Smile, and, like, I wrote the score my first pass for it, and I was like, okay
17:36So, I sent it to her, and I was like, yeah, I'm ready for your notes and whatever, and she was like, no notes, and I was like, what?
17:45Because that's just how in sync we were
17:47So, yeah, she's one of my favorite filmmakers as well
17:51Wonderful
17:53And one more thing I want to talk to you about
17:57I know that, I believe last year you had music that you composed that was performed by the Philippine Philharmonic Orchestra
18:06And so, I'm sure that meant a lot to you
18:09So, I'd just love to have you share a bit about that experience and what that was like for you
18:15Of course, so that was actually this year, March of this year
18:19And they reached out to me
18:22And this was so serendipitous
18:25Because over the last few months
18:27I'd just been talking to people about
18:30How my biggest dream is to work with a Filipino orchestra for my scores
18:37My dream isn't to be in Abbey Road or Air Studios
18:42Okay, that's a lie, because that would also be great
18:45But on top of that, the bigger dream for me is to work with a Philippine orchestra
18:53Because that is home
18:54And ever since I moved here, I haven't really had that opportunity
18:58So, I've just been talking to people about this dream
19:02And then one time, after having talked about them continuously at a party
19:09I come home and I check my email
19:11And I receive an email from the Philippine Philharmonic
19:14Asking if they could perform a piece of mine
19:17Because they're putting together a women's concert
19:21Because it was Women's Month
19:23So, they wanted to perform pieces by Filipino women
19:27So, to me, it was just like
19:30I was so deeply moved by receiving that email
19:35And I was like, yes, I have this piece that I would love for you guys to perform
19:41And I actually flew home for it
19:45And it was also like
19:47I make it a point to come home once a year anyway
19:50So, that was my yearly trip
19:52So, I went home
19:54I went to the rehearsals
19:55And I went to the show
19:58And I was just so floored by the experience
20:01It meant so much to me that they were playing my piece
20:06And I also felt like
20:09A lot of the players in the orchestra came up to me after rehearsals
20:14And they were like, we love your piece
20:16And we're so happy to play it
20:19And it was just like this kind of symbiotic relationship
20:22Like, I loved that they played it
20:25They loved that I wrote it
20:26And it was just amazing
20:29My whole family came to the concert, by the way
20:31Everyone from my grandma to my uncles and aunts
20:34And my mom and dad
20:36So, it was like a full
20:37It was like, again, another coming home
20:40Another full circle moment
20:42Because I left the Philippines
20:45I want to say eight or nine years ago
20:47And every time I've come home
20:51This felt like a real coming home
20:57Because, yeah, I get to bring home a piece of music
21:01That I've created
21:03And I feel like it reflects a lot of who I was
21:07But also a lot of who I have become
21:09So, it was really amazing
21:11And the concert was great
21:13Everyone
21:13I hope everyone loved it
21:16I mean, I think the piece received pretty good reviews
21:20So, I'm just so glad it happened
21:22And it's like, for me, it's the start of something new
21:25It's the start of this collaboration
21:27With the Philippine Philharmonic
21:28And I hope we just keep working together
21:32Whether it's me bringing them work
21:35From films that I'm doing here
21:37Or them asking me to write more pieces
21:40For them in the future
21:41Well, thanks so much for putting that into words
21:45That's really beautiful
21:46And, Denise, it really has been a pleasure
21:49To be able to talk with you today
21:50Before we wrap things up
21:52Is there anything else you'd like to share
21:53That I didn't get to?
21:56I mean, I thank you for your questions
21:59I feel like we've covered quite everything
22:01That I have been passionate about
22:03Talking about recently
22:05So, thank you so much
22:06Oh, absolutely, yeah
22:08Well, I'm really glad to give you a chance
22:10To talk about things that you're passionate about
22:12And hopefully we get another chance
22:14In the future to talk some more
22:15Yes, thank you
22:17Yeah, yeah
22:17Well, I hope you have a great day, Denise
22:19And we'll talk soon
22:19All right, talk soon
22:21See you
22:21Bye
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