- 5 weeks ago
In this interview, EoM contributor Joel Winstead speaks with actor, writer, director Jeff Ryan and producer Owen Williams about their film "Mean Spirited."
They chat about the origins of the film, the difficulties of wearing three different hats and directing yourself. Ryan reflects on past experiences informing his work today.
Official Synopsis:
After receiving an invitation to his estranged friend’s mountain home, a wannabe influencer aims to bury the hatchet with their now-celebrity friend who isn’t quite himself anymore.
Available on VOD and digital February 7th, 2023.
They chat about the origins of the film, the difficulties of wearing three different hats and directing yourself. Ryan reflects on past experiences informing his work today.
Official Synopsis:
After receiving an invitation to his estranged friend’s mountain home, a wannabe influencer aims to bury the hatchet with their now-celebrity friend who isn’t quite himself anymore.
Available on VOD and digital February 7th, 2023.
Category
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Short filmTranscript
00:00Okay.
00:03But yeah, I'm calling from North Carolina, Wilmington, down by the coast.
00:09Oh, nice.
00:10Yeah.
00:12You flew today?
00:13Is this a Jaws t-shirt?
00:15Yeah, it's a Jaws t-shirt.
00:16I like to wear everything either on my skin, literally, or on a shirt or somewhere.
00:23Yeah, my wedding band is R2-D2.
00:25Yeah.
00:27Wow, man.
00:30Sorry, you asked a question.
00:32I interrupted you, rudely.
00:33Oh, no.
00:34I just knew that we scouted this later today because you were flying.
00:38I was, yeah.
00:39I'm in Denver, and luckily my calendar switched because I was like, oh, it's only 4.30 here,
00:45and hence me being late because the two-hour time difference somehow messes with me.
00:53Well, the two-hour time difference.
00:54Like, LA is very easy.
00:56Two-hour time difference.
00:58Oh, sorry.
00:58I was just going to talk about how it was only, like, one minute.
01:01It was after, for a two-hour time limit, that's perfectly acceptable.
01:07All right.
01:07All right.
01:08Perfect.
01:09There it is.
01:09I'll try to give you, it seems like there's a little bit of a delay, so I'll try to, hopefully,
01:12there won't be any, like, long, weird pauses, but we'll see how it goes.
01:15Yeah, sorry about that.
01:19No, I'm sure, I mean, it's not a big deal, it happens all the time.
01:23So, I watched Mean Spirited, which I really liked.
01:26And then, after that, I was like, I got to watch more of this stuff.
01:32And so, I found, nailed it, a short, Jeff, which you wrote and starred in, which I loved.
01:39And I'm kind of struck by this theme.
01:42And after kind of, like, exploring and seeing the Youth Pastor movie and the Salem Witch Trials movie,
01:52I'm kind of struck by this theme that seems to run through your projects, this idea of, like, selling out
01:57or compromising yourself in some way for fame and things like that.
02:03And it's kind of a recurring theme in, like, all these projects.
02:05And there's another short, Welcome to Hollywood Baby, or That's Hollywood Baby.
02:11Is this going to keep happening?
02:13Is this a conscious effort?
02:16I mean, I can see it now, looking back.
02:20I think while I've been in it, though, I don't think I actually consciously was like,
02:26this is my, like, thing I'm going to do.
02:27I think it's just genuinely something I really struggle with.
02:32And I tend to, usually when I write, I tend to just write my flaws on screen.
02:36So I usually, I'm not someone who outlines a lot.
02:40Joe, who I wrote this with, is like a notorious outliner.
02:43He just, like, has to know every beat of it.
02:45And I'm someone who more, like, I'll write a bunch of characters and, like, kind of jump
02:50in there and see where it goes.
02:51And a lot of times it fails.
02:54But it kind of usually stems from just thinking about things that I don't like about myself
02:59or that I'm insecure about.
03:00And then I kind of write that into a character.
03:02And yeah, it just tends to kind of come through in this way of all these projects.
03:08Because I think I just want to have a career.
03:13Like, I want to, you know, I crave to have, like, a great career or something of that nature.
03:17And I struggle so much with this sacrifice it takes to get there.
03:22And this kind of just battle you face with any sort of endeavor, whether it's creative
03:29or business or anything.
03:30It's just this life versus career balance.
03:34And yeah, it sort of just kind of comes through.
03:37And weirdly enough, we're making another project in April.
03:39And it is the same theme.
03:43Yeah.
03:44Is that mooch?
03:45Just kind of branded.
03:46Yes.
03:47Yeah.
03:47Yeah.
03:48Which we're very excited about that one as well.
03:50But that's very much, I would say that more than any other project is kind of me on screen
03:57and, like, my insecurities and, like, all my flaws on screen.
04:00And then there's another project that's a feature based on Nailed It that we also kind
04:05of have called Pretty Boy.
04:07And that is, based on a true story of kind of, like, random abuse things that I sadly
04:13had to go through.
04:14Sure.
04:14But it's a comedy.
04:16I promise.
04:17Well, when I watched Nailed It, I was reminded often of Triangle of Sadness, which came out
04:22this year.
04:23It kind of had some similar themes.
04:26Not that, I mean, it was, it's just, it resonates.
04:29It resonates.
04:29And you can kind of tell, even though, like, Mean Spirited is, like, a comedy horror, there's
04:35still these elements that kind of come through.
04:38And there's, like, that humanity that which makes the horror that much more horrific, which
04:43is what I wanted to say about, like, Bryce and Andy's kind of characters.
04:48It's like, they kind of, they both, Bryce is maybe a different way, but kind of sold out
04:52or compromised themselves for either for their vlogosphere or for their career.
05:00And it had the adverse effect on their friendship.
05:02And then they just couldn't just be real with each other.
05:05And there's, like, a, there was, like, this downfall.
05:08I'm not sure if you can see a vengeful demon coming, but there were signs.
05:13But in most friendships, you know, clearing the air and being honest works better, you
05:17know, but there's that underlying insidiousness just about that whole thing that kind of feeds
05:24into Mean Spirited.
05:27Was that part of the process when you were writing Mean Spirited?
05:30Was that like the chestnut?
05:33Or was it more about, let's do a possession movie?
05:37You know, it was never meant to be a possession.
05:40Or I guess it was, but it was the initial idea for Mean Spirited came from a real prank that
05:48me and my friends did and kind of an urban legend mixed with it of growing up in New Jersey,
05:55we would, like, prank a kid.
05:58I grew up in a youth group.
05:59We pranked a kid by, like, giving him a Ouija board.
06:03And then there was, like, this urban legend that you can never throw it away.
06:06And it was kind of this story that we kind of embellished where, like, we gave him a
06:11Ouija board and, like, you know, every day he tried to throw it out.
06:14And we just kept planting more Ouija boards in his house so that he thought it never left.
06:20And that was the initial idea.
06:22And it's kind of a really weird story how it happened.
06:25We were, I was trying to make Mooch first.
06:28Mooch has been in the pipeline for longer.
06:30And then COVID hit.
06:32And there was a chance that someone was going to finance a project.
06:35It was contained.
06:38So I had, like, seven days to write a script.
06:41I just kind of drank coffee for 14 hours a day.
06:45And I wrote this really crappy first draft of a script.
06:49And then that company went on because of some pretty bad things that happened to the company.
06:55I don't really know the details.
06:56But I think some sort of allegations came out and their company went on.
07:00So that financing went away.
07:01And then I was like, okay, well, I have this script.
07:03And I sent it to Joe, who's Owen on the call right now as a producer.
07:08And Joe, and I co-wrote it, but Joe's also a producer.
07:11And Joe and I kind of spent the next seven months rewriting it.
07:14And that's a very long-winded way of saying that's kind of the initial idea.
07:20But then it really kind of stemmed into the core of the script I wrote was about a friendship falling apart.
07:26And that's kind of based on real relationships I've had where, you know, you grow up and you kind of grow apart.
07:32And then also, weirdly, through this process, I kind of had a sad breaking up of a friendship.
07:36And he was like a really close friend of mine.
07:40And kind of that torn relationship kind of just fed into what we were doing and kind of just the drama of it.
07:49I mean, I feel like the movie reads more comedy than horror, in my opinion.
07:55I know it's probably going to be different for everyone.
07:58But I think at the core of it, we just wanted people to get that it is a relationship movie.
08:01And I think if that's what people take away with that, I think we're kind of happy.
08:04And, you know, we hope people like it.
08:06And we hope people think it's funny.
08:07And we hope people think it's scary or suspenseful at times.
08:10But if you can kind of come away being like, oh, it's a story about a friendship.
08:14It kind of takes some of the pressure off of the comedy and off of the horror.
08:18At least that's the goal.
08:21Yeah, yeah.
08:22That's what I took out of it.
08:23I really honed in on that.
08:25And having Andy be a vlogger who is kind of already kind of in this position of, like, taking reality and pushing it aside and just kind of, like, focusing on this vlogging aspect of his life.
08:42And then Bryce is in a kind of very similar situation where reality is kind of, like, out the window.
08:47And so they're both in this situation where they're just not addressing reality.
08:50And it's super unhealthy.
08:52And then they're kind of, like, trying to, this one-upmanship thing.
08:56And so, yeah.
08:57And then, you know, throw in some demons and you're having a party.
09:03Exactly.
09:03Yeah.
09:04Everyone loves demons, you know.
09:05So, this is your third feature.
09:09You did some co-directing with Ariel Cimino?
09:13Cimino?
09:14Cimino?
09:14Cimino, yep.
09:15Cimino.
09:16Okay.
09:16Yes.
09:17So, this is your first time kind of, like, in the solo director's chair.
09:21But you've also always either written and produced or both and starred in these things.
09:27Do you enjoy killing yourself?
09:29No, it's truly horrible.
09:34I ask myself these questions every day.
09:40Yeah, it's a lot.
09:44And I think, I don't know.
09:47I mean, I think a lot of people who, you know, I have aspirations to be an actor.
09:51And I've always wanted to be an actor.
09:53I've, you know, ever since I saw The Mask, I think I've been, like, obsessed with, like, trying to be an actor.
10:00Any sort of sense of, like, a Jim Carrey-like opportunity in my life.
10:04And just like, you know, like most actors, it's just hard.
10:08And you kind of just, I found that the opportunities I could create for myself can kind of control.
10:14I, again, probably a long-winded way of saying it.
10:18But I would go in as an actor for roles.
10:21And it just wasn't what I thought I brought to the table.
10:24I think I was going for roles where I just felt like it was not my personality.
10:27Personality is weird, crazy, psychotic.
10:29And I think the only person who could kind of put myself on screen in the right way was myself.
10:35And also, no one was getting my door being like, Jeff, please come act in my movie.
10:39Um, so I've always wanted to put acting in it.
10:43And I always thought, like, okay, well, if I act in this, you know, maybe it'll progress both things at the same time.
10:47Hopefully.
10:48Um, hasn't.
10:50But, you know, you hope.
10:51And the, it is a lot to do everything.
10:55But it's also, I find as a creative, as a performer, I feel the most comfortable when I know everyone on set.
11:01When I feel like I'm friends with everyone on set.
11:04And I can try really weird things.
11:06And I know that no one's going to judge me and be like, that was a really stupid take, Jeff.
11:10And I also feel like, you know, for the part, actors probably enjoy the experience.
11:15And maybe some don't.
11:16Maybe some wish that there was just someone watching the monitors.
11:18But I do think being in the scene with them, you kind of see things from a different perspective.
11:22And that's really cool.
11:25Um, but I think I love the entire process of filmmaking.
11:29I just love every job.
11:30I, you know, I freelanced as a grip.
11:33I freelanced as a PA for a long time.
11:35I have been a gaffer-ish.
11:38And I just kind of love how collaborative this process is.
11:44From writing, you know, that's like the most solo part of it.
11:49And then everything else after that is just collaborative.
11:51And I think it's a really interesting art form.
11:53It takes a lot of persistence.
11:56And it takes a lot of patience.
11:58Because you can't control everything.
12:00And you really need help from everyone.
12:01And, uh, yeah, I don't enjoy killing myself.
12:04I think, out of everything, I love editing.
12:07But it hurts my wrist like crazy.
12:09And I just wish I could pass that one off, I think.
12:12It was crazy seeing the amount of hours Jeff was, like, spending leading set memorizing so many lines.
12:19Leading set memorizing so many lines.
12:21And it's just, like, it feels like, uh, and no matter, thank God we have that coffee sponsorship for it.
12:27I don't know how you do it.
12:30True.
12:30When you're directing yourself and you have all these other responsibilities and then having to direct yourself on top of it, um, is there ever any part of you that's just like, that's good enough.
12:41I don't want to do it again.
12:42Or is there someone on set that's like, ah, I don't know if that one worked out.
12:45Uh, I feel like every time I've been really lucky and I've had someone or people who I really, I really trust to, you know, Owen is one of those people.
12:56Joe is one of those people.
12:57And I think there's, and in my past movies, Arielle is like, that's like, that was, that was our relationship.
13:04It was kind of like, Arielle has like a true gift of bringing the best out of people and creating really, like, she could find the funny in any scene.
13:12I think she's so talented and I think doing it solo, it was a lot harder because you don't have that one person to be like, do it again.
13:21You need to redo this.
13:23And this time I really, I relied heavily on, um, Owen and Joe.
13:28And I think I would always kind of, we just didn't have a lot of time.
13:31So I would only do playback on certain scenes that I knew that I wanted to, to make sure I had it.
13:38And part of, part of my comfort level on set for that is that I've edited, you know, 10 short films and now four feature or three features.
13:49And I think when you've edited that much, I think on set, you just know what you need to protect yourself.
13:55Like, I hate watching myself perform, but I've had to cut myself in movies enough that I can be like, Ooh, wow.
14:03You're really bad in the scene.
14:04Like, how do we get around this and how do we make this work?
14:06And I think I can kind of myself enough to like, no, I got enough out of a take of myself that I can cut around self.
14:14That makes sense.
14:15Sure.
14:16Sure.
14:16Yeah.
14:16Yeah.
14:16Uh, it takes a lot less ego too, uh, which is probably a good thing.
14:21Uh, so that kind of leads me into my next question and I coming at it from like, like, I guess if you, so my next question was going to be kind of answer it with editing.
14:30It's like, if you could only do like one of the things, like, if, like, I understand you'd like to do all of them, but like, if there was like one thing that you could just focus on, would it be the acting, the directing, the editing?
14:42Definitely not editing.
14:43Um, I really don't love it.
14:45I, I love being in control of that part, but I, I would not do it.
14:48I would, it would be a toss up between directing and acting.
14:53I wouldn't want to be just an actor, like as my career, I would love to just act in the movie.
14:58I, that's like a gift.
15:00I like truly, if you're watching this, please, please gift me an opportunity.
15:06Um, but I love directing.
15:09I think it's, it is so fun.
15:11It is so difficult in a lot of ways, but it's also, um, it's just like, I don't know.
15:19There's something so special about bringing all these people together, having this like camp, like moment on set for, you know, one week to two months.
15:29And then at the end of the day, you know, it's a long process, like beginning to end, it's almost always a year and a half, two years.
15:36But that like moment when you get to watch a movie with your team for the first time is pretty special.
15:40And I think that like, I feel like it's kind of, you get to a point where you're so sick of your movie and you're so done with it.
15:46And then you watch it with everyone and, you know, you're like scratching yourself the whole time, hating watching it.
15:51Cause you've seen it so many times, but, uh, it kind of makes it worth it a little bit.
15:55And you're like, I guess I could do it again.
15:57Uh, you forget all the bad, a little bit for just a little bit.
16:01Um, yeah, for a little bit coming at these movies with the kind of behind the scenes experience with, uh, directing and writing and editing for this specific one.
16:12It's kind of like in the found footage, uh, variety, there's the YouTube aspect of it.
16:18So there's a little bit different.
16:18And so there's all of these, you know, YouTube effects and, and like zooms and different things like that.
16:24And it kind of has that found footage bent.
16:27And then there's a point where it transitions and it kind of just comes like a narrative and it's, it's a cell transformation.
16:31But, and it works really well, but when you're having a movie where these things are happening and like, you know, shit's hitting the fan, is it hard to justify the, the angle of the camera or like where the camera is going to be?
16:46Because it's like, well, would someone be there filming this, you know, thing or like, what's, what's those, what are those conversations?
16:51Like, what's like, I really want to see this, you know, hand getting flushed, but like, should there be a camera?
16:57Yeah, yeah, totally.
16:57I mean, I feel like that's, that is probably the debate.
17:00Every found footage movie has to, I think it's just the, why keep the camera rolling aspect in some ways.
17:09And I think the only thing, I think if you watch our movie with that in mind, I think there's, there's areas of flaws for sure.
17:19And there's just like areas where you're like, yeah, they probably wouldn't keep rolling.
17:23I think the only saving grace that we have is that our character, who's kind of an asshole, the main character, just really, just really craves fame more than anything else.
17:34Even though like he would, you know, he'll apologize at one point and say like, he doesn't care, but he does, he keeps the camera rolling.
17:41And I think that to keep the camera rolling is a narcissistic thing.
17:45And I think almost this, this demon that kind of hive minds, this whole group is kind of this narcissistic demon of like, you know, doing it for the fame.
17:55It's almost like this calling into question, why roll the camera ever.
18:00And a lot of our inspiration, weirdly enough, is, is kind of based on not so much like just YouTuber influencers, but I've watched like a lot of documentaries with people who, you know, there's a really sad one on, I think it was Netflix.
18:13But of a woman who has been like killed their kids, but the wife, the perspective of this documentary was like the wife had to like film every aspect of the life.
18:23And there was never this really sense of reality.
18:25And it was kind of, that was pretty interesting to us.
18:29And also like Grizzly Man was a big inspiration.
18:31The Werner Herzog movie, it's kind of this like, why film?
18:35Why, like, why keep it rolling?
18:37What's this like, again, you know, that theme that we kind of seem to have in all our movies is just like, what's worth it?
18:44Is it worth it to do this?
18:45And that's at least how we justified it.
18:49I think it's hard though.
18:51I think throughout the entire time, we were always having a conversation of like, would they justify filming?
18:57Why put the camera here?
18:58Would he, would he film the hand?
19:00You know, and the way we mainly talked about it was the movie was edited by Bryce Levy, my character.
19:07And so everything in the movie was kind of from the perspective of Bryce would want it to be in there.
19:12And there's shots of Andy picking his nose and making Andy look stupid at times.
19:17And that's very, that's what we had to like justify in our heads, whether or not the audience gets that is, you know, we didn't expect that to be the case.
19:26But we needed at least something to latch on to.
19:28It's confusing, if not.
19:30Yeah, no, no, I think it, I think it works really well, because there's a certain point where it turns when, when kind of Bryce and that whole thing kind of takes over more, that's kind of more when, when different things change.
19:41But I think that setting up Andy as this kind of narcissistic asshole, definitely, you know, there's like a, like, and Cloverfield is a throwaway line.
19:49And it's like, well, we got to record, you know, like, and then it's just like, then they're good for the rest of the movie.
19:53And this one is kind of like, you know, Andy's like, always wanting to film it because he's either wanting to catch Bryce or he's wanting to make himself look better or whatever.
20:01But it just, it justifies that and makes less sense.
20:04That's why it was, it was, it was, it was good.
20:06It was not, it was less subtle than, than other ones, which is, which I appreciate.
20:13I don't want to take up too much more of your time.
20:16I have a couple of questions that are silly.
20:21So Thunderman, when's that pilot coming to the CW?
20:26You know, we've been, we've been pitching it to the CW for, for years now.
20:29And we, I've always told us, you should tell the story of how you guys found that superhero.
20:37How did we find it?
20:39Wasn't Joe like researching like really common ones that haven't been created yet.
20:44And he's like, I can't believe no one's ever made a Thunderman.
20:46Before, that's crazy.
20:47Like that's ours now.
20:50I know.
20:50Yeah.
20:50We were, I mean, it was like, it was, it started as a joke thing.
20:54And I think we, Joe and I also had a conversation where I was, I said like a dream of mine was like to always be on like a CW show.
21:02Because if people watch it, like cool.
21:04And if not, like, you know, you're still like having a great career and you're in like eight seasons.
21:10Sure.
21:11Yeah.
21:12I've always wanted to be on a CW show.
21:13Never have I even gotten close to the ingenuity.
21:16But the, this was like our way of being like, this is like our, this is Jeff's opportunity to be a superhero.
21:23And, um, yeah, we, it was just a lot of fun.
21:28It kind of, it started as a joke and then we kind of influenced everything.
21:32Um, Matt Russell, who, who composed the music in it, he and I, while we were writing it, I just said like Thunderman is kind of this theme.
21:42And he started sending me soundscapes of like thunder and like, um, and I like make soundscapes when I write weirdly.
21:49Like I'm like a weirdo and, uh, Gone Girl, the soundtrack to Gone Girl, I listened to over thunderstorms, like almost entirely during the writing process of this.
21:59And, uh, it just kind of felt right to do like Thunderman.
22:05But yes, CW, if you're listening, please give us Thunderman the pilot.
22:09We will make it.
22:11Okay.
22:12We own the rights.
22:14Another question I wanted to ask.
22:15It was very, uh, it was very offhand shot when they first get to the Poconos.
22:20Bryce comes around the corner.
22:21He's not wearing anything but boxers in like some crazy galoshes.
22:24Uh, and I, that made me gut laugh for just cause it was like,
22:29it was just so random.
22:30And I was really trying to figure out, I was kind of distracted about why, why Bryce would be wearing these galoshes.
22:36But then I saw a picture of you like some, at some film festival and you were wearing like these platform shoes that were like a foot tall.
22:44That was, that was our, that was our American premiere that he wore those shoes and he was dedicated to wearing those.
22:50Oh yeah.
22:51Um, yeah, I was, those are moon shoes.
22:55I just, I was in, I was in the bathroom before our U S premiere and I was like, I think it'd be funny if like I wore moon shoes.
23:02Like, I don't know.
23:03Like part of this is like, you're not like the big movie at any of these festivals, right?
23:07Like you're not sure.
23:08We're not the $5 million movie.
23:09So it's like, how do you stand out?
23:10It's like in London, I brought, uh, Joe couldn't make the London premiere at Fright Fest and I had his hand from the movie.
23:19And so I like brought his hand with me everywhere I went and like shook hands with it.
23:23And it was like something to talk about it.
23:25And it kind of took the pressure off to someone interviewing it who, cause half the people on the red carpet at those things haven't seen your movies.
23:32So they're asking you generic questions and it gives them, you know, something to talk about and, um, but the outfits for the movie kind of just came from this, like, we wanted to make Bryce as douchey as possible.
23:46And, um, it's pretty funny, like writing yourself into it.
23:51Cause it feels like really like egotistical and like sick to like, be like, I want to do this and I'm playing this role.
23:59But I would hope that anyone who knows me knows I'm not really like that, but, uh, yeah, we, we saw those shoes, uh, Mary Giggler, who did our costume designing.
24:10She just like had a trunk of outfits and I saw those and I'm like, these are hilarious.
24:15And I was like, let's just like go bold.
24:18And like in one of the ax throwing scenes, I'm wearing, like, I think I'm wearing one of the girls tank tops and it like, it's like up to my belly button.
24:27We were just like, whatever.
24:28Like, this is just weird.
24:29Yeah.
24:30Well, I was impressed.
24:32Yeah.
24:33Yeah.
24:34Great.
24:34Well, uh, I, I enjoyed it.
24:36Uh, thank you for your time, uh, Jeff and Owen.
24:39I really appreciate it.
24:40Um, oh, thank you.
24:43And, uh, that was great, Joel.
24:45Thanks for having us.
24:46Yeah, for sure.
24:47Um, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I
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