A Conversation with "26.2 to Life" director Christine Yoo.

Elements of Madness

In this conversation, EoM Senior Interviewer Thomas Manning speaks with director Christine Yoo about her documentary film "26.2 to Life." Yoo discusses her passion for exploring the stories of prisoners in San Quentin and their road to rehabilitation through marathon running.  Official Synopsis: The San Quentin Prison Marathon has an unconventional route: 105 dizzying laps around a crowded prison yard. "26.2 to Life" is a new documentary that tells the story of incarcerated men who are members of the 1000 Mile Club, the prison’s long distance running club. They train all year for this 26.2 mile race. For the men who take their places at the starting line on a cool, sunny November morning, completing the marathon means more than entrée into an elite group of athletes. It’s a chance to be defined by more than their crimes. Cheering them on are a small staff of volunteer coaches, veteran marathoners who train with the runners throughout the year. The bonds they forge on the track create a community that transcends prison politics and extends beyond the prison walls as members are released. "26.2 to Life" is a story of transformation and second chances. The film offers a rare glimpse into a world out of bounds, as the men navigating life sentences seek redemption and freedom… or something like it.  Screening during Santa Barbara International Film Festival 2023. #RunWithUs #SBIFF  sbiff.org/ www.sanquentinmarathon.com/ www.facebook.com/SanQuentinMarathon twitter.com/SQMarathonDoc www.instagram.com/sqmarathon/

Transcript

00:00Hey there, this is Thomas Manning, senior interviewer for Elements of Madness, and today

00:05I'm very excited to be sharing with you my recent conversation with director Christine

00:09Yu, whose documentary film 26.2 to Life is debuting at the Santa Barbara International

00:15Film Festival, and this was a very fascinating story, and my interest was initially grabbed

00:21when I read that this was a documentary about a group of marathon runners, because I have

00:26background in marathon running myself, but it's also, it's another community within the

00:31running community, it's a group of incarcerated individuals at San Quentin Prison, and just

00:38I was really impressed with the way this story introduced me to some things in our society

00:44that I feel like aren't really explored that often in filmmaking and storytelling, and it

00:49just really kind of opened my eyes to a lot of things and really inspired me to perhaps

00:56do some more research myself and to look at this community from a new perspective and

01:01a new light, so I really appreciated this documentary and this conversation with Christine Yu, so

01:07thank you so much for watching and listening, and I hope you enjoy.

01:10And so from what I understand, you're someone who's had an interest in the criminal legal system

01:15for a lot of your life, so can you share a little bit of that background and how that

01:20led to your focus on examining incarceration in the U.S.?

01:24Yeah, actually, it was in the year 2001, it was my first screenwriting job.

01:34I was approached to write a screenplay about this guy named Eddie Kang, K-A-N-G, and he's

01:43also Korean American, and so for subsequently about two years, actually, my writing partner and I,

01:52we ended up like researching his whole entire case and writing this screenplay, and it was a very

02:03disturbing situation, and it just, by the time that we finished it, his parents who were, had been,

02:12were in the middle of like filing an appeals for him, and they didn't want anything potentially

02:17like negative or negative press about anything, so we had to actually put the, you know, it, it,

02:24it stopped the project, essentially. I mean, of course, professionally, I was, you know,

02:29very devastated about that, but more than that, I was really personally impacted because of the

02:36circumstances around his crime and really knowing what that had done to his family and knowing that

02:45this guy was somebody that I felt could have been my brother, you know, it never left me, so,

02:53you know, and again, this was in the year 2000, so, you know, flash forward to 2016, I mean,

03:01in all that time, there really was never a day that went by, kind of like no matter how busy I was,

03:09where he did not pop into my mind at some point, you know, and just sort of like knowing that there

03:17was this guy who had these like very unusual, I mean, really, really bad circumstances and was

03:24really, really railroaded, and I firmly believe that, like, you know, I'm, I know to this very day

03:30that he was railroaded, you know, and just sort of like being, I guess, I felt like imprisoned with

03:37that knowledge almost, because like I couldn't do anything about it, you know what I mean, and I felt

03:43really, you know, it was very oppressive, actually, so, so when I found the article, that GQ magazine

03:52article, having the emotional knowledge about Eddie Kang, but then also, I'm not a marathon runner,

04:01but I have experienced runners high, so I could, I knew that, oh, okay, this, this could, how this could

04:08potentially impact people, so those, those two, you know, parts of my life, kind of just collided

04:16with his story. Yeah, yeah, so you discovered that connection between the prison communities and the

04:24running community, and you mentioned that you've kind of been a runner yourself a little bit, so what

04:29kind of experience did you have personally with the running community? I mean, I know you said you

04:33didn't really run marathons, but I'm sure. Usually for exercise. Yeah, usually for exercise, I mean, I run,

04:39I'm more of like the three to five mile, you know, runner, and over the last year, I've been playing a lot

04:47of tennis, but, but throughout my whole life, I've, I've always run for exercise, like that's been my main

04:54thing, so, and I never really ran, actually, with a group, so I really didn't know about the running

05:02community, you know, I, I ran as a, as a solo activity on, just really for exercise and health,

05:09and, you know, being a writer, or being a, being a storyteller, or being a creative, I always knew that

05:15if I went running too, usually somehow it would solve a problem for me, you know, it's just kind of

05:22that, that alone time, I guess, you know, and you do feel a sense of like, once you, you know, once you do

05:28hit that zone, you know, it, it, it is like a meditative thing, you do feel a sense of freedom,

05:35so those kind of like, juxtapositions with prison, you know, the sense of freedom, but being in prison,

05:41those were the, the themes that really interested me. Yeah, and originally, I think you, you said that

05:48you began to approach this story almost as a, more of a narrative film, but something changed,

05:54then you decided to go the documentary route, so what led the project to evolve like that?

06:00Well, when I first went inside the prison, it was for a half marathon event in August of 2016,

06:08and again, I was going to, you know, research for a narrative film, because that was actually,

06:13up until that point, that was actually more my background, and there were a couple of things,

06:20on being on the yard before the race, with all these people around, it felt very, and I keep on

06:28using this word, but it felt very festival-like, and again, that kind of festival-like atmosphere

06:36inside a prison was something so unique, and so different, you know, and then the other thing was,

06:45I had met one of the subjects, um, Rahsaan Thomas, um, that day, and he was, like, cracking jokes,

06:52and smiling, and I was like, you know, it's not what you think people in prison are supposed to be

06:59like, you know, and so I just, and, and even though, like, I knew somebody in prison, right, I mean, I knew

07:06this guy, Eddie Kang, but I think because, and I consider, again, I consider myself progressive, but

07:13when he was laughing, cracking jokes, it, it really reminded me, or it really showed me how much I

07:21had dehumanized people in prison, like, as if when people go to prison, they stop beating themselves

07:27type of thing, so, um, it was kind of those little subtle things, and then as we started gathering more

07:34information about the club, and I just started hearing, really, what people were saying about

07:39the impact, I was like, you know what, I need to get out of the way, let, let these guys tell the

07:45story, you know, like, I need to get, I need to get out of here, and, uh, I know you did a short

07:53documentary a couple years ago that also dealt with the incarcerated community, um, and this was your

07:58first feature-length doc, but how did, uh, your experience on that other film inform your process for this

08:04one? Uh, Friendly Signs, do you mean, are you talking about that one, or Mosaic, or? Oh, let's

08:10see, was it, um, was it Conversation with Claudia? Oh, well, yeah, I mean, what's funny is this movie,

08:1826.2, actually really started my whole non-fiction career, um, if you will, um, and Conversation with

08:28Claudia actually also was an offshoot of 26.2. Okay, okay, all right. Yeah, I mean, here's the

08:35thing, this story, I mean, what you see in the film is a sliver, and I mean, a real sliver of, like,

08:43the stuff that we shot, I mean, we had really an embarrassment of riches here, and, you know,

08:49people were really willing to share with me their experiences, um, and originally I had intended to

08:56do a lot more stuff of, like, with people on the outside, you know, and how the club continues for

09:02people on the outside, you know, there's, there is a community of people on the outside, but

09:06ultimately, I just, you know, that's why I'm hoping to do a series, you know, but, um, it did not,

09:14it, it ended up ultimately really focusing on Tommy, Rahsaan, and Markel, so, you know.

09:22And, uh, so what are the logistics of getting a film crew inside somewhere like San, San Quentin,

09:27and getting the proper permission and certifications? I'm sure there's a lot to that process.

09:33Yes, um, a lot of paperwork, got to ask a lot of personal information,

09:38um, and a lot of, yeah, gate clearance type of, you know, background checks, security checks,

09:46all that kind of stuff, um, by the end of it, you know, I would get this, you know, get more or

09:52less had assembled the same crew, so it'd be, that part of it became infinitely easier, and we started

09:57to get our own systems and stuff, but it took me about nine months to get that first time in,

10:05and then, you know, they don't have to do this, do you know what I mean? Like, the state is not,

10:12you're not paying a location fee per se, you know what I mean? The state doesn't actually have to do

10:17this, so I really treated every single time I was in there as if it could potentially be my last,

10:23but at the same time, keeping in mind that I do want to go back, um, very well of the rules,

10:30you know, respecting the rules, um, and, um, and over time, I think we earned the trust of people

10:39there to, you know, grant us, you know, we, we ended up receiving amazing access, and, um, I think

10:48it's, you know, I spent a lot of time in the prison when I wasn't shooting, so I would just go in with

10:55my associate producer, Zahava Hirsch, and we, um, would, would, you know, go in, and every single

11:01time the club had a workout, we were there, you know, just talking to people, and, um, just becoming

11:08sort of, like, part of the community, I think, and learning, um, about who the guys are, and, and

11:14talking with them about their stories. And so roughly how much time did, uh, your crew spend

11:20actually filming, uh, in production on this? Well, we shot a hundred days. Wow. But, you know,

11:27but, but, you know, I had a camera, too, so I would, me, and, you know, my AP, Zahava, shoot, who

11:34shot sound, or a lot of instances where we were just shooting stuff, you know, grabbing stuff by

11:39ourselves, um, without, like, a full-on crew. Like, any time we shot in the prison, essentially, I mean,

11:47we did take in a full crew, because, um, you know, that marathon event, or that, um, those

11:53running events, they are, they are, and Frank, I mean, this is someone who's very serious about

11:59running, obviously, and they are really treated like real running events. So, you know, we

12:06couldn't bring a drone in, you know, um, but I wanted, you know, I wanted it to, you know,

12:14have a multi-camera type of look. I knew I wanted slow motion, um, things like that. So, um, we had,

12:21you know, for the marathon, I think we had, like, six units, or something like that going, um, so we

12:26would have multiple units going, just because it was a huge, you know, it's a huge yard. In order to

12:34cover that is, you know, it's, you, you, you got to go big sometimes in those, in those situations.

12:40Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, we had no walkie-talkies either. So, it was, like, sometimes

12:46it was, like, you know, filmmaking in the 1920s or something, you know, like, you know,

12:53you kind of had to, like, you know, I would give, I would have these, like, little overhead diagrams

13:00and, you know, talk to Frank really about, like, what was going to be happening that day, you know,

13:07how they thought things were going to go down, essentially. And you would kind of develop a plan

13:12for, okay, watch this guy, or watch that guy, or this is what we need to be watching for. And this,

13:19and if that happens, then you go here, and you go here. And, you know, but, you know, it kind of all

13:26becomes chaotic. But, you know, you got to plan, right? Because you just got to do that, you know,

13:34because you're OCD or whatever. But, you know, sometimes these plans go out the window, too.

13:38Yeah. Yeah. And so, it kind of sounds like Frank almost transitioned from just being not only just

13:45a subject, a documentary, but also almost a crew member.

13:49I mean, the coaches were very involved with assisting. And Marion, who's Tommy's wife,

13:58she was kind of like our coordinator. She ended up being our coordinator. Because, you know,

14:04especially on the days that we shot, like, inside the cell block, and things like that.

14:08I mean, it's not like I could call these guys the day before and give them the call times,

14:14you know, and being like, okay, well, can you be here at this certain time? And, you know,

14:19they wouldn't even necessarily know when we were going in. Do you know what I'm saying? So,

14:23I would, you know, have to call her ahead of time and be like, okay, the next time you talk to Tommy,

14:30can you tell him that to tell the other guys, you know, that we're going to be coming in on this day,

14:36you know, and to, you know, can you be at your cell at 9am or whatever? And we're going to and if

14:42we're not there, can you just please wait? Because we will be showing up, you know, so it was a lot of

14:49that kind of thing going on, too. That's amazing. Oh, my goodness. Wow.

14:54Yeah, it was like nerve-wracking, you know.

14:57Yeah. And I think another aspect of this documentary that viewers are connecting with

15:03is the soundtrack and the music, which really creates a lot of the overall energy and the

15:08motion. So, I'd love to have you speak a little bit on the origin of that music and the artists

15:13behind it, because I know there's, you know, they definitely have some unique stories themselves.

15:16For sure. Of course, running and music go hand in hand. So, I knew the music was going to be

15:24absolutely critical to deal with these running montages that I knew that we were going to have.

15:31And so, the music basically stemmed from two places. One is the film composer. His name is Antoine

15:40Williams. I met him when he was still incarcerated at San Quentin, and he was working in the

15:46media center. Rahsaan Thomas, who was, you know, the guy who finished last in the marathon.

15:54He introduced me to Antoine. And so, he gave me a couple of his CDs. You know, they put, like,

16:02tracks on them with him. And then there was another guy, David Jassy, who was also

16:09incarcerated there. And then later on into the process, he, so then David Jassy, but that, so,

16:21well, I'll go back to Antoine first. So, he, basically, then he ended up getting out in 2019

16:28in the fall. So, you know, as soon as he got out, I think it was in, like, a week or something. Within

16:33a week, I was like, you know, I would love for you to do this score. He, I think, felt a little bit

16:39overwhelmed because he had never done anything like this of this nature. I mean, and to this day,

16:44I don't think he reads or writes music. He's completely self-taught, you know, and, and he also did

16:52some of some, also had some of the rap songs in there as well. And then there was another guy by

16:59the name of David Jassy, who got out on a commutation also in March 2020. And while he was

17:05there, he produced an album called San Quentin Mixtape Volume One. And it's on Spotify. It was

17:14very underexposed. He, before he got locked up, he was a producer for, like, you know, I think he had

17:22worked with, like, Ashley Tisdale and I think had produced a Britney Spears track and stuff like

17:27that. So Pete, so he had a reputation inside prison, you know, as like, oh, he's this music

17:33producer guy. And then at San Quentin, there was a group of kind of younger guys that they call YOP

17:42in the Youth Offender Program. And so working with guys in YOP, David sort of challenged them to come

17:52up with stories and songs and rhymes that also wouldn't use any swearing, you know, in it and,

17:57you know, really force them to sort of like tell their stories, so to speak. And so, and so yeah,

18:04a lot of like the raps, the rap tunes are from that album. So these are, you know, authentic stories

18:11and songs that are produced inside San Quentin.

18:15Right. And I know you've also founded a film festival at San Quentin. So I don't know how

18:22much of a comparison there is here, but have you found anything similar within the transformative

18:27power of running in San Quentin and the power of art, the art of film in the film festival that

18:34you're, that you've curated there?

18:35Yeah, so we are just starting the film festival. So this year, we will be actually will be our

18:43inaugural year. Okay. So what happened is when I finished my principal photography, I would still go

18:49in and work out and kind of run with the club. And so Rahsaan and I, we ended up like running a lot

18:58together because like, I'm also a slow runner. So, so we would like, you know, be laughing or

19:05whatever. And then he was like, one day he was like, you know, I, you know, my big dream is I

19:11am interested in becoming a director. You know, would you help me out with that? Because again,

19:15like I said, they have this whole media center at the prison where, you know, people, they,

19:20they do have camera equipment, they've got like final cut, they've got, you know, resources,

19:24their computers and stuff like that. So I was like, okay, you know, as I'm ready, I'm like, okay,

19:31sure. You know, not, so I did get like a security clearance and became an official volunteer for the

19:39media center. We ended up actually getting a Sundance grant for his first, you know, short

19:47documentary film that I helped him produce. And it was also about Tommy, you know, the white guy that

19:53was in it and about his ASL, ASL abilities and trying to, and trying to get more people in the

20:02prison to, to, to take ASL. So I became an official volunteer there. And yes, I do see that

20:10filmmaking provides rehabilitative opportunities, certainly. And I think that there's something

20:19really neat and special about when the guys are interviewing each other, you know, there is

20:27definitely a difference. I'm not going to say it's better. Cause I, I feel like I, you know, I, I was

20:33able to do good interviews and everything, but you know, that they may ask different types of questions,

20:39you know, you know, as well, they, they may think about things in a little, you know, different

20:43nuanced way. Um, and, uh, so I, I do collaborate with, uh, guys over there. Um, but except for

20:53yesterday. So Rahsaan was released from prison. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. I saw that he was scheduled

21:00sometime in early 2023. So I was going to ask about that. That's, that's incredible. Yeah. So he got

21:05out yesterday. So we were there filming and there was like about 50 people there. There were like

21:12cameras everywhere, you know, and NBC Bay area was there like, uh, Marshall project, you know,

21:19ear hustle, like LA times, like a lot of, you know, it was really amazing actually.

21:26And so are you able to stay in contact with any of the other people that this documentary focused on?

21:32Oh, sure. I, um, can really consider myself a part of the San Quentin community at this point. You

21:39know, I go, I go into the prison on a regular basis. Um, I don't really, well, during COVID to

21:46like all the athletic programs were, were shut down. Um, but they're starting back up again now this

21:52year. So I, I definitely keep in contact with, with everybody, you know, it, it really was a life

21:58changing thing, um, for me, transformative for myself as well. And I, as, as difficult as the

22:08movie was to make, and it took five years, um, I'm, I'm almost sad, almost, almost sad that it's over.

22:16Cause I, I really, I really enjoyed looking on it. I really felt like it was a real privilege to,

22:23to be able to tell their story. And, you know, are there any similar stories or offshoots from this

22:30that you can see yourself telling in the future? Like I said, I mean, I would love to continue to

22:36tell the story of the thousand mile club. Like I feel like what is in the movie is really just about

22:42the marathon, but it's really not about the story of the club, you know, and even the coaches and

22:49things like that. I mean, they have very unique stories to tell. And I couldn't even get into the

22:56story of the original marathon, you know, like, and how really that even came to be and those

23:03circumstances or even really how the running club came to be. Um, so again, you know, I I'm, I'm happy

23:12with how the movie turned out. I, you know, I'm proud of how it turned out, but yet I, I also know

23:17that there are such great stories that, that weren't told there, you know, but, but I'm, I'm,

23:23I'm con other than that. Yes. I mean, I'm continuing to tell the stories at San Quentin. I, I feel

23:31very, um, again, kind of very privileged to have that, um, that opportunity to do it. And, and I,

23:39and I genuinely enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, I'm, I actually have background in running and

23:47marathon running itself. So that's really on your, on your bio. Yeah. Yeah. So that, that's really

23:54what caught my attention about this doc. But then, um, I hadn't really done a lot of research and

23:59exploration into the incarcerated community, but watching this has inspired me to, you know, go and

24:05look more deeply into that. So, you know, thank you for that. And thank you for opening my eyes to

24:09a lot of things that I just wasn't aware of. Oh, well, thank you. Um, and that's kind of one of

24:15the things is that we are hoping to draw runners in, you know, um, and who may not have ever had any,

24:24you know, exposure to these issues and, and draw more people into the conversation of, you know,

24:31reform and just, you know, what our prison system is like. Um, I'm also, yeah. Cause I know that you

24:38are part of an organization of like Southeastern critics or something association. So I would like

24:45to mention that I'm originally from Tennessee. Okay. Wonderful. Yeah. I'm North Carolina. So,

24:50okay. Yeah. I grew up in Memphis actually. So awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Well, um, yeah, a lot of,

24:57a lot of great critics in the Southeast and, uh, hopefully, hopefully a lot more of them

25:02discovered this film as well. So, yeah, I mean, I'm really wanting to bring the movie to the South,

25:08you know, that is really a kind of a personal mission of mine, you know? So, um, so we're hoping

25:15to do that later this year. So I'm, I'm glad that you're the first to discover. Yeah. You're

25:22saving the way you're pioneering this. Hey, I'll be, I'll be very happy to champion this film for,

25:29you know, as long as you need me to. So thank you so much. Yeah. That means a lot. Yeah. Well,

25:34you know, Christine, I really have enjoyed the conversation and, uh, before we wrap up,

25:38is there anything else that you'd like to share that I didn't get to? Um, I think just that we

25:44are going to be conducting a, you know, social impact campaign. We do want to get the films to

25:50communities where, um, that are more difficult to reach that our system impacted communities as

25:57well. Um, and if people reach us, reach, you know, and want to organize the screening of any kind like

26:03that, I mean, we can reach, please reach out to us through our website and we read and answer every

26:11email, you know, that comes to us. So, um, you know, we would love to hear from, from your readers.

26:18Awesome. Well, again, thank you so much, Christine. And, uh, the documentary is 26.2 to life and, uh,

26:26yeah, just really great privilege to speak with you today. You too, Thomas. I appreciate it.

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