Vikram Singh EXPLOSIVE Interview: Bihar Elections, Rising Violence in UP, Haryana Cop's Death

Name: Vikram Singh EXPLOSIVE Interview: Bihar Elections, Rising Violence in UP, Haryana Cop's Death
Uploaded: 2026-02-06T18:58:27+00:00
Duration: 53 min 1 s
Channel: Creator Connect

Creator Connect

In this Asianet News EXCLUSIVE, Former DGP of Uttar Pradesh Vikram Singh shares expert views on a range of headline issues, including the shocking Chandigarh IPS suicide case and ongoing investigation; the arrest of Ladakhi activist Sonam Wangchuk; Afghanistan Foreign Minister Amir Khan Muttaqi’s visit to Deoband; integrity crises and reforms in the police department; law and order challenges in Bihar; and the alarming journalist death in Uttarakhand. Watch.

#VikramSingh #AsianetNews #Exclusive #BiharElections #ChandigarhIPSSuicide #SonamWangchuk #AmirKhanMuttaqi #PoliceIntegrity #BiharLawAndOrder #UttarakhandJournalists #LawEnforcement #IndiaNews #India

00:00:09 - 00:03:51 Introduction and integrity in public service
00:03:11 - 00:05:56 Need for zero tolerance to corruption
00:05:24 - 00:09:36 Corruption as terminal cancer in India
00:09:05 - 00:12:30 Corruption in judiciary and punitive action
00:12:04 - 00:16:36 Law and order in Uttar Pradesh and police conduct
00:16:19 - 00:20:34 Handling communal violence and minority outreach
00:20:03 - 00:34:27 Police encounters and safeguards
00:33:53 - 00:35:50 Investigating false harassment and alimony cases
00:35:27 - 00:39:58 Election booth capturing and illegal liquor smuggling
00:39:29 - 00:43:56 Illegal immigration and border security challenges
00:43:17 - 00:46:36 Naxalite insurgency and security forces response
00:45:54 - 00:47:54 Law and order challenges in Bihar
00:47:26 - 00:50:09 Paper leak scams and corruption in education
00:49:38 - 00:51:45 Visit of Afghan minister to Darul Uloom Deoband
00:51:10 - 00:52:42 India's foreign policy towards Afghanistan and Pakistan
00:52:10 - 00:53:14 Future outlook for India’s growth and law enforcement

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00:00If you shoot on this four, the next four is standing up.

00:03We want to give our boss to send our boss to the government.

00:09Three buttons of my uniform open and I start dancing with my pistol in my hand.

00:14It is terminal cancer. I am sorry to be using very harsh words.

00:17Removing corruption from India is like removing capitalism from America.

00:22Then it gives the impression that the government is not serious about punitive action.

00:25What you would like to make a taabiz and set it at the four at every crossing?

00:30So today I have the pleasure of sitting down with Vikram Singh.

00:39He is a former BGP of Uttar Pradesh.

00:43And he is very well known for his honesty, integrity, bravery and for a lot of podcasts that he has done for a lot of digital channels.

00:51And of course, he is very vocal on TV also for his robust commentary.

00:56And currently he is also the chancellor of Noida International University.

01:02Sir, I have seen your podcast before coming here.

01:06And a lot of valuable life lessons, apart from, of course, a lot of commentary that you have made regarding the law and order situation in Uttar Pradesh and a lot of international topics also you have spoken about.

01:19But I want to initiate this conversation from integrity.

01:22Do we have any integrity which is the foundation of public service any longer in our country?

01:30Namaskar Hina Ji, I'm ever so grateful to you for finding time on a holiday to share ideas, give me ideas and inspire me.

01:39Indeed, I'm ever so grateful to you.

01:41And I do hope that there's something valuable, something worth listening to and a takeaway for the youth and others in the country.

01:49I would be truly blessed. Thank you for your time.

01:53You mentioned integrity.

01:55A man of integrity is a one person army.

01:59Without integrity, there is no service and there cannot be any service.

02:04He or she will be a mercenary.

02:07Maybe very competent.

02:09Robert Clive was very competent.

02:10So was Warren Hastings.

02:11So are so many others.

02:13But without integrity, they are absolutely good for nothing.

02:18And at the end of the day, the end product is going to be as horrible as a dishonest person.

02:23In Hindi, we have two words.

02:25Safal.

02:26Chor and Dakur are also Safal.

02:28But if it is not Safal, Safal is a person who is a person of integrity.

02:33He can never be defeated.

02:35He is indomitable and can never, never be defeated.

02:39And therefore, we need to have men and women of steel.

02:44People who have a passion of public service and nation building.

02:49But to your question, are we having the right human material?

02:54I would not like to believe that some engineer and I would like to name and shame Mehra in Madhya Pradesh recoveries of hundreds of crores.

03:04Cottages, farmhouses, cars, a lady I.S. officer recovery of crores of rupees and nothing happens.

03:13You also have, I blame both, both the giver and the taker as also the government and the law enforcement machinery.

03:22You have to be cruel to be kind to decimate corruption.

03:26You have to have zero tolerance to corrupt practices.

03:29And when I say corrupt practices, integrity means to be an integral whole.

03:33It just does not simply mean financial integrity.

03:37Financial honesty is a part of total integrity.

03:40I should abide by the government rules, government subjects on reservations, government policies in respect of appointment and postings and promotions of minorities and those belonging to the weaker sections.

03:53And also of prohibition practices.

03:56Therefore, in totality, suppose I'm a senior officer.

03:59Do you think for a moment that I can accept expensive gifts on the so-called birthday celebrations, New Year's and the Holy and Diwali?

04:06No, I cannot. There are government and conduct rules on the subject that prohibit me from accepting expensive gifts.

04:15That is all a part of integrity. Can I go on social media? No, I cannot.

04:20To go on any media, social print or otherwise, the government has to give me permission.

04:26And that too, when the government authorizes me to speak on a subject. Otherwise…

04:31Even to start a social media platform handle, you need to have a permission.

04:35To have a permission. Okay.

04:37I can speak only on two issues without government permission.

04:41That is scientific or cultural or social. Nothing else.

04:46I cannot say with three buttons of my uniform open and I start dancing with my pistol in my hand.

04:52Like the bangam. That is in very bad taste.

04:55Because the basic two tenets of any public servant is self-effacing and to be in the background.

05:03Not to expose yourself. Not to speak about I did this and I did that.

05:08It is in poor taste. It shows that the person requires psychiatric intervention.

05:12A lot of police officers take bribe. A lot of them are deeply embedded into corruption.

05:17But the political backing is there. They have something to lean on.

05:21So then how do we deal with this? Should I say that only judiciary is our last option?

05:26You see corruption is a multifaceted dimension and a monster.

05:30And which came first the politicians or corruption or these corrupt practices is difficult to say.

05:35But corruption presupposes that some kind of a political patronage otherwise it cannot survive.

05:42Whenever you talk of corruption imagine that it is starting from the top and I don't condone anybody in the department also.

05:49Likewise if there is zero tolerance you also have certain chief ministers, prime ministers who were epitomes of absolute integrity.

05:58You have the example of Chaudhary Charan Singh ji. You had the example of Lal Bahadur Shastri ji.

06:04That upright life absolute frugality in personal matters.

06:10So much so that when Lal Bahadur Shastri ji demoted office as the railway minister after major accident firstly resigned.

06:17Then he said that Lalita ji the lady wife if there is dal there will be no vegetable and if there is vegetable there will be no dal.

06:25That is the life of frugality that Shastri ji had. Today when I compare I find that even if there is a Grand Pradhan.

06:32You just go and see his lifestyle the lavish he lives like a czar himself.

06:37Now coming to your first question. A person who is corrupt has to oblige very many people to survive.

06:44A person of absolute integrity is not dependent upon any politician.

06:49He is not dependent upon anyone and she is not dependent upon anyone.

06:54He can live with dignity and honor and having the satisfaction of a life nobly lived and a duty well done.

07:01Because he is not dependent he has to have subscribed to the rule of law.

07:05And for that he does not require any political support or patronage.

07:08How do we deal with it because right now as we are speaking there must be in many corners of the country there will be transactions happening under the table.

07:16How do we tackle this?

07:18It is terminal cancer. I am sorry to be using very harsh words.

07:22So terminal cancer or cancer in the last stage will have to be dealt with in a manner that you deal it with multiple levels.

07:31Firstly I fault that there are no bad soldiers. There are only bad generals.

07:37The top leadership will have to understand that they are responsible morally and legally for any corruption that is happening.

07:44And therefore if they decide that they will come down like a ton of bricks on any act of corruption then Hina I am sure it will bring some change.

07:53But sir the people of the country are also they have become you know habitual of giving bribe to police officers to get a few things done.

08:01This has become a deeply embedded.

08:03Corruption has become as they say removing corruption from India is like removing capitalism from America.

08:10In India when a person is born you have to pay the mother and the father will have to pay their way to get the child born.

08:19And when the person dies he has to pay bribes to get the person cremated.

08:24So even before a person is born even when he dies the corruption is inbuilt in the system.

08:30It has become a part of our DNA that is a tragedy.

08:33That is a tragedy.

08:34And as even the prime minister I believe once mentioned there are four kinds of bribes.

08:38Nazarana, Shukrana, Zawarana, Dhamkana I really don't know but a bribe is a bribe and a corrupt practice is a corrupt practice.

08:48I am sure if you would be able to go through Munshi Prem Chanzi Namakka Daroga and they try to enlighten the society that at the end of the day an honest man is better than 10,000 dishonest men.

09:01But there are multiple roles.

09:03You mentioned society, you mentioned people, you mentioned the police and I am saying the leadership and then the law enforcement agencies.

09:11You also talked of the judiciary.

09:13Do you think anybody in this country is above board including the judiciary?

09:18Justice Yashvant Verma Ji of Delhi entire corruption of any state on one side and the number of bundles of notes recovered in Justice Verma's house and look in the manner in which the kid gloves he was treated.

09:32Whereas to the contrary, you should have been cruel to be kind. You should have ensured that he was sent to jail.

09:39You not only did not send to jail but you obstructed anyone who tried to send him to jail.

09:44You obstructed the inquiry. He should have been removed from office then and there.

09:49If this is the kind of like this vehicle and the cavalier manner in which you are handling and dealing with corruption.

09:56This should be dealt in a summary manner, Hina.

09:59That a person comes to light. Okay, I don't ask for anything revolution.

10:02But the least you can do anything that comes to light.

10:05Get a case registered. Send the person to jail.

10:08Put him in a fast track court and decide in 21 working days.

10:12This is the least you can do. But you will decide in 10 years. If at all you will decide.

10:16You will decide in a manner that you are extra liberal to the accused. Not to society or to yourself.

10:21There is a bill that Union Home Minister Amit Shah is backing which talks about how these people who have committed serious criminal offences needs to be removed from their position within 30 days.

10:34What are your thoughts on this particular bill?

10:37Ideally speaking this is an excellent measure but I would be very happy if it is implemented.

10:42It's good to have ideas. But ideas are ideas only if they are not put into practice. They are only ideas.

10:49I would be very happy you have MP MLS court. You have fast track courts.

10:53How many cases of gross corruption have you found being punished?

10:58To the contrary I feel that things have not moved in the right direction.

11:05Especially in matters of corruption. And I do hope the Home Minister. He has been very successful in bringing up new laws.

11:12Abolishing old laws. He is successful in implementing. This being done. Rest assured Hina. It will be a great service to the nation.

11:20There is a criticism that what if the ruling government whosoever is in power may misuse these kind of bills.

11:27Anything. Give me anything. Fire. Weapon. Law. Is not likely to be misused. Anything is happening.

11:35But there are checks and balances to see that the misuse does not happen.

11:39But first of all make a beginning. At least try your hands out. Make an honest intent.

11:44And I am sure the great people of my great motherland will see to it that there is no miscarriage of justice as far as this sensitive aspect of jurisprudence is concerned.

11:53Do you think that in Uttar Pradesh the law and order situation is controlled because we have that kind of a chief minister in power and we do not see that kind of a clamp down happening in other states of the country.

12:05You are very right within the state of Uttar Pradesh also. The faithful implementation of the rule of law.

12:12And when I say faithful irrespective of caste and community. It cannot be selective. Show me the man and I will show you the rules.

12:18You know it has to be faithful and transparent so that anybody who transgresses the rule of law you should be aware that there will be consequences and the consequence should be immediate should be prompt and should be taken into action translated into action in immediate future not indefinite future that Muzaffar Nagar riots happen and the investigation and the arrest and the consequences happen after years together.

12:47Then it gives the impression that the government is not serious about tunitive action. In Badali you would see and other cases the signal was very clear.

12:54What the CM says means a lot because the police does not operate in vacuum. It operates in a system and in the system if the chief minister says the police force of 3 lakhs in the state understand what the CM desires and then you can see the results for yourself.

13:20Also the immediate action. Also the immediate action that was taken and nothing very revolutionary but also the implementation of the internal security scheme which is the statute which is a book that is there in every district of the country.

13:35But few choose to look the other way not to implement it but here you what you saw in Badali ensemble was a paper book perfect translation of the statute into action.

13:47There is no prompt arrests prompt use of the law of the law of the law that was taken into action and bringing about peace without resorting to the use of firearms.

14:11Tauki Raza, his properties were demolished right after the Bareli violence. Why did it not happen earlier?

14:19To your question, I say that there are 100 patients in a hospital. First come, first served.

14:26Tauki Raza Khan did not give the opportunity of service to the government of the department before.

14:32And the moment he gave the opportunity and that he wanted to be served, service was dispensed very promptly without fear and favor.

14:41You see, the government has not just Tauki Raza or anybody else. It does not have a priority list.

14:48But the moment I find that there is a person who is bent upon creating violence, vitiating the communal atmosphere of the district,

14:55then it is my painful duty to understand in what manner has he transgressed the rule of law.

15:01Now, like when a person, patient goes to the hospital, the doctor says, I have a cold, but during the course of the exercise that you have pneumonia,

15:09during the course of pneumonia, there is a biopsy that you have cancer.

15:12Then all the treatment from starting from cold to pneumonia to biopsy to every cancer, he is given a treatment.

15:20Likewise, in this also, when he is being treated for creating a law and order situation, it is also came to light

15:28that he is earning 15 lakhs a month on the basis of monthly rent that he is getting.

15:33How? By constructing almost 80 shops on government land.

15:39That may not have come to the notice earlier.

15:41And the government decided there are other important things to do in the festive season.

15:44But when he chooses to challenge the authority of the law,

15:49we want to send our police to the doctor, the mahogany, the doctor, the mahogany, the doctor, the doctor, the doctor, the doctor, the doctor, the doctor.

16:05If you don't have the wrong number dial, please don't try to challenge the authority of the state and the police like that. Look at the audacity. It is for the cyber patrol department and the intelligence that they said that Nadeem had tried to befool the administration that we will not collect at Islamiyah college. We will disperse after the Friday namaz.

16:30To the contrary, they collected and they said that we will chop off the hands. We will assault the police. We will kill the policemen. But we will see to it that our cause does not go unnoticed. With this kind of provocation, I tell you that Barili police has been very forbearant, very tolerant and absolutely conducted themselves by the rule law. Minimal use of force and that knowledge.

16:54They are very lucky. If you can understand, if there had been a different breed of officers there, they would have forgotten their names and the names of their parents also.

17:04Are you talking about cutting your hands? Now we know how to cut your hands.

17:08When we talk about Uttar Pradesh, the violent activities are happening from so many years. There have been landmark incidents that happened in the state where these kind of clashes we saw, communal clashes and non-communal clashes.

17:21But do you think that the government needs to have a better communication with the people of Uttar Pradesh because there is a lot of discussion around how the government is not treating the minority right?

17:34There is a discussion. I do understand that there is a law and order situation which needs to be dealt with in a very stringent manner.

17:41Having said that, do you think that the outreach of the government needs to be a little bit better?

17:47You see, winning the confidence of the people is of paramount importance and that is why it is held at the topmost level.

17:53To ignore anyone, whether the minority or the weaker sections, of course, should be the topmost priority.

17:59Not to ignore but to have a dialogue and give them a self-confidence that their petitions and their requirements will never go unnoticed.

18:08To the contrary, the government will give the topmost priority to their requirements, to their safety and their dignity.

18:13And if anybody has not been able to do it, beginning from the Chowki Insta to the station officer, to the superintendent of police, to the district magistrate, to the commissioner, to the chief minister,

18:22the views, the sense of security and the demands of the weaker sections of the minority should have the topmost priority.

18:30Make no mistake about it. And if it does not happen or the perception is made that the government is ignoring them, even that is bad enough.

18:37Today, a narrative is being built. The government is ignoring the demands, the rights and the sense of security of the minorities and the weaker sections.

18:46Because the vested political interest would like to believe PDA. PDA may form some kind of an acronym for you.

18:56But for me, everybody is sacred. Not just what you would like to make a tabi and set it at the Chowraha at every crossing.

19:05Every single citizen of India, every single person is sacred for me. And it is the duty of every police officer and the government,

19:12the government is going to suit to it, that he or she should devote herself to ensure the safety, security and honor and liberty of every person, not just the PDA, but every single person.

19:25And I do hope I am making a point clear. Yes. Because it may not make suitable street. I am not being very street smart when I use these two truths.

19:35Inter-connectivity or inter-transferability of both PDA and the non-PDA because I am not a politician.

19:42For me, everybody is an equal. Of course, the PDA has a special claim because of their weakness, economic or otherwise.

19:50But to make a fetish out of it, that is something that I would question always. Don't make a fetish out of it.

19:56Everybody, as far as everybody's security is important, everybody's liberty is important and everybody's honor is important.

20:03For you, of course, it makes political sense and smartness to create a fetish so that you can score political brownie points.

20:09When I say you, I mean my politician friends.

20:12How much percentage of these police encounters are staged and how much, how many of them are real?

20:19Again, we talked of perception earlier. To say, encounter is not given. Encounter is not orchestrated. It happens.

20:30And there are legal provisions to it. The section 94 to section 106 of the earlier Indian Penal Code in the right of private defense.

20:40And in the Bharati India Sangeeta, if I am not mistaken, I think it is 42 to 53 or 53 to 63.

20:46These 10 sections of the Bharati India Sangeeta. What is that? Minimal use of force to safeguard your life and that of any other person.

20:54So that, that person is saved. Is it misused? If I shall put it like that.

20:59Did I not say that any statute is likely to be misused? True.

21:02And to say that 100% encounters are authentic, I'd be living in a fool's paradise.

21:06And that is why your concern is shared by the National Human Rights Commission, by the governments also.

21:11That there are certain safeguards that have been inhibited. And what is that?

21:15If the deceased family feels that there has been a hanky-panky or there has been a cold-blooded killing,

21:22they are at liberty to register a case against the firing and assault police party.

21:27And that case will be registered at the police station, but will be investigated by some other police station, not by the same police station.

21:35A report will be sent to the National Human Rights Commission and also the State Human Rights Commission.

21:42A magistrate inquiry will also be ordered. And the investigation and the final report, if at all, will be scrutinized by a judicial magistrate.

21:52So these are the checks and balances that the government enforces. And there have been very many cases in Uttar Pradesh and Punjab,

21:58where the police personnel have been sentenced and jailed for years together because of indulging in fake encounters.

22:05Therefore, the police leadership have a task at hand that they should also ensure that there are no fake encounters.

22:11And if there are any, they should intervene with a sense of purpose and register a case of murder against the delinquent police officers.

22:19Because one fake encounters erodes the entire goodwill of the police force.

22:23During your tenure, did you see this being misused?

22:29Of course, I did see that. Multiple, I could see cases of AGRA, ETA, where there were one or two fake encounters.

22:36And when the reports came, I registered a case and entrusted it. I asked the complainant,

22:41you tell me any officer you trust who will do justice to you. They named an officer. And I told them that you have been entrusted by the aggrieved party,

22:51the family of the deceased. Please see to it that you do justice. Don't try to see that since you belong to the police and the accused of the police department,

23:01don't try to help your buddies there. I would be extremely happy if you do justice to the investigation.

23:07And lo and behold, both cases ended in conviction. It is for the police leadership not to be on the side of the assailant

23:13because there is a cold-blooded, deliberate murder. A murder is even lighter, but a fake encounter is even worse.

23:19A murder in police custody. In police custody, you see, in this country we have had murder of Mrs. Indra Gandhi,

23:26Sardar Bayan Singh, Chief Minister of Punjab. We had the murder of Rajiv Gandhi.

23:33A murder and that too in police custody is absolutely reprehensible and puts police in very bad light, including the murder of Atika Masha.

23:44So it appears that they were in collusion with…

23:46Collusion or incompetent or both. But as far as law is concerned, law says that there was a judicial commission.

23:54And the judicial commission exonerated the police of any charges that they were complicit.

24:00And therefore, as law-abiding citizen, I will let the matter rest because I cannot…

24:05I am not above the law commission. I am not above the rule of law.

24:08If the law commission… If the commission duly appointed by the government had a judge who was inquiring the matter,

24:17I am not above him and therefore I have nothing to say but to accept the findings of the judicial commission.

24:23Latest we saw that in Ladakh, Sonam Vangchuk was the voice of all the protesters who were demanding for the sixth schedule.

24:32There were a few, you know, statements that the government gave but no solid evidence that we saw in this particular case.

24:40He is behind bars. He has limited access to legal counsel. Do you think that this is a misuse of the act?

24:48You cannot invoke the provisions of the National Security Act because you don't like somebody's face or at the drop of a hat.

24:55There have to be cogent and legal reasons. There are three conditions on which the NSA can be invoked.

25:01Number one, public order that is known as Lok Vivastha. Number two, national security. Number three, essential services and supplies. I will give you an example.

25:14Lok Vivastha is not law and order. Like my servant is here. He murders me. It's a sensational murder. But it is not public order. It is a local murder.

25:26Therefore, it impacts the law and order of the era. That's about all. Public order is when there is panic in the whole district of Noida or Lucknow and people shut their shops, run away in panic, go underground.

25:38That is public order. In case of Sonam Vangchuk, the government allotted him land for a specific purpose. He misused the conditions.

25:47He visited Pakistan and I am given to understand. I have no proof but I am given to understand that he met people who were inimical to the interest of India.

25:56Number three, during the course of the Ladakh is a very peaceful place. This is the first time such disturbances. Of course, it is my legitimate right to protest against the government also.

26:05It is my legitimate right to criticize the government if I choose to. But if I promote violence, if I instigate violence as a consequence of which lives are lost, properties are burnt, then their responsibility will have to be fixed.

26:20Therefore, I for one, I have shared the state with Sonam Vangchuk many times. He is a brilliant person. There is no doubt about it.

26:26And I believe I don't see Phil but Three Idiots was a very popular film and he was behind the story of the three idiot films.

26:33All having said that, I have strong reservations against people, your legitimate demands about the sixth schedule, finding a place.

26:41And also, I agree with whatever you are saying that the local people should have a priority in getting the jobs.

26:48There should be a ban on any number of outsiders coming and establishing shop in the peaceful place of Ladakh. Ladakhese people should have their own ethnicity preserved.

26:59I agree in total. But to that, I would say the peaceful means of protest, the legitimate means of protest, not violence.

27:08Violence is not the answer because those that play with the sword shall perish with the sword. You and I are not privy to the intelligence report.

27:15But when anybody in the district by the state invokes the provision of the NSA, the matter goes to the advisory board which is headed by the serving high court judge.

27:24And if there is any flaw, that will be set aside in no time. Don't think for a moment that the district by the state is the sky and nobody above him.

27:32The matter goes to the advisory board and after the advisory board, it goes to the high court.

27:38And unless the case is absolutely certain with cogent and logical reasons, it will not stand the scrutiny of the advisory board and the high court.

27:49Additional DGP. He committed suicide in Chandigarh. There was an eight page letter which was found in his pocket.

27:57And he talked about how he was harassed at the hands of his seniors. How much prevalence is there of these kind of harassment and you know, mental torture activities in the police department?

28:12At the hands of the seniors. Let me tell you the police department is a very disciplined department and it's a family.

28:18It's a family because starting from the right from the police constable right up to the DGP, they are one big family.

28:25There may be. I don't say that nobody is infallible and beyond reproach. There are fault lines and those fault lines have to be addressed by the leadership.

28:34This is a tragedy and the worst human tragedy because the brother officer died before his time and the allegations that he has leveled are very serious enough.

28:43I would not like to believe that the allegations are true, but the fact of the matter is if somebody is giving his life, there has to be an element of substance in the matter and the allegations.

28:54I do hope that the topmost priority is given to investigate and inquire into the serious allegations leveled by the deceased officer.

29:02He was a very promising officer, a good family, but what prompted him to take his life and the allegations he has leveled need to be investigated very, very thoroughly by an SIT.

29:16I also, to your question, does this happen in the police? I have yet to come across because we are beyond caste and religion.

29:23To the very end of my career, nobody could know what my caste was. People guessed whether I belonged, whether I was a Jaat or a Gujar or a Ahir or a Malla or a Thakur or a Christian even.

29:37It was at the very end of my career of 36 years, people came to know the public. I mean, of course, in your service records, it's known what caste you are.

29:46But you take pains to give the impression that you belong to everyone and everyone belongs to you and should not give in thought, word or deal any indication that you are of this community and you have the propensity and the potential to favor this community or to be antagonistic to any other community.

30:07Okay. We had a caste factor here in this particular case in Chandigarh. But apart from that, did you ever face any sort of pressure, you know, at the hands of your senior that, hey, you need to do this.

30:21Whether it's wrong or right, just say as per my command. Did you ever face this kind of pressure in your career, sir?

30:27Never, never. I think a person who is upright and abides by the rule of law, his reputation is known to one and all. And unless that person has kind sentiments about himself, he never asks you to do anything that is illegal or illegitimate.

30:40Because Napoleon had said that in any organization, there's always a percentage of people that is almost one person who are ever ready to do anything that is illegitimate for furthering their own careers.

30:53But I'm not a part of that one person. And I'm happy that what Napoleon said is true for also for the police that I'm sure that barring a few shameful exceptions, nobody will subscribe to anything that is illegal or illegitimate.

31:07A journalist who was making a report on the pathetic condition of hospitals in Uttarakhand. His body right after a couple of days after his report, his body was found in the river.

31:22You know, seeing these kinds of cases emerge when you do such hard hitting reporting and a couple of days after you are no more, you have a family behind, they don't have anybody else to rely on.

31:34How do you tackle this situation? I'm asking you from a place of being a journalist myself. Are we safe in the country to ask hard hitting questions to the authority to expose these kinds of truths and especially at the time when we have these kinds of social media platforms where everything goes viral so quickly?

31:53Heena, I would advise you as a father that you are very safe. Journalists are safe. But what happened to that journalist? I would like a thorough inquiry as to the circumstances of his untimely and unnatural death.

32:06And this is not the first death. I am reminded that few years ago, several years ago, there was another journalist in Uttarakhand who died under mysterious circumstances and the matter was investigated by the CBI.

32:17Doval, you may recall, just go and look up Google and that also. And it's not only these two journalists that have died under mysterious circumstances. There are any number of journalists that have died under very mysterious circumstances.

32:33And a few investigations have revealed that they were done to death by vested and criminal people with criminal background. Therefore, first thing, that you have to be very careful about your safety and security. Not only by you, any person.

32:48When you are driving a car. When you are driving a car, you have to be concerned about the safety by observing traffic laws. In the police, you have to be very careful about when you are going out for ambush and combing operations.

32:58Likewise, when you are a journalist, more so if you are doing sensitive stories, your security is of paramount importance. And therefore, your movement, security within the home, security on your movement, especially, and security at the workplace.

33:12Please see to it. And then we can have another interaction. What can journalists do? Who are doing high profile investigations and high profile cases?

33:21Sir, you also led during your tenure Operation Majnu. And there, of course, you speak very highly of the operation itself and the kind of results it fetched for you and for the community.

33:34But I want to ask you the same operation if it can be looked at from another angle because in the recent times we saw a lot of reports where men are being harassed, men are committing suicide and they are doing it because women are harassing them.

33:50They are harassing them by asking a lot of alimony, maybe several other reasons. If you have to look at this, but if you are given a task, for example, from your senior that Vikram, you need to solve this menace in the society, how will you tackle it?

34:07Vikram will pick up the top 10 cases of the district and entrust it to ACE investigators, which will at least have one woman investigated in the SIT.

34:16Vikram, pick up the top 10 cases of the district and let it be investigated by SIT, which should have at least one lady police officer. Use all the ballistic, scientific and forensic aids to investigation and investigate it at least in 30 days.

34:33Put it into a fast track court and see to the judgment comes in as early as possible so that the certainty of punishment is the biggest deterrent to any falsehood including false rape cases, false alimony cases, false dowry cases and false charges in respect of harassment at domestic workplace and domestic violence.

34:56And you now have the tools and the wherewithal in the forensics, ballistics, etc. And a good investigation would be a perfect precedent.

35:03Ten convictions in three months. And let me tell you that they will be the game changers.

35:07We have elections happening next month. And you know the same story I think will pan out this time also. There will be elections, there will be voting and then there will be reports of boot capturing.

35:18Hina let me tell you that boot capturing is a thing of the past now.

35:22It happened more so in 80s and 90s but we still see incidents of it happening.

35:26I know. Now what you have is a silent boot capturing. Silent boot capturing you know how it happens.

35:31Bribe, money, gifts like sadis, liquor and these are things. This is silent boot capturing.

35:40Now you have the technology, you have CCTV's, you have election commission officers at all levels.

35:47Now you have the social media, you have the print media and the social media has been the biggest death knell of all boot capturing.

35:54But old habits die hard. Nobody can prevent the gifts of sadis, suit lengths, liquor and money.

36:02That also is a way of boot capturing. Appealing in the name of caste and communal matters.

36:08That also is boot capturing. But those days where people would go and 20 people would go to the booth and stamp all them.

36:15Those days are over. So today you see it has been perfected into a very subtle art of managing people.

36:23And not only I would say manipulating the mindset and the thinking process through illegitimate gift.

36:30Because under the election and representing people's act, giving of liquor, giving of gifts, giving of such gifts also is a crime, is an offense.

36:39And therefore I would appeal to the district officers and the election commission observers to see to it that the model code of conduct is scrupulously followed.

36:48No gifts exchange hands, especially liquor etc. do not reach the electorate and those who are supposed to vote.

36:55So during elections do you think that the illegal smuggling of liquor increases because we have these kind of activities taking place?

37:05You see unfortunately what you say are very prophetic. There has been very large number of recovery of illegitimate liquor along the UP Bihar border in the recent days.

37:15If you just see the statistics of the last 30 days, you see that recovery of illegitimate liquor, contraband liquor on the UP Bihar border has gone up manifold.

37:26You know why? Only because of the fact that it is being smuggled into Bihar so as to be distributed to the electorate.

37:32Then if we know that this happens during elections then why is nothing happening in these border areas?

37:38Of course that is why these things are being recovered. Had things not been happening they would not have been recovered and they would not have been caught.

37:45But then how are people emboldened to do this if we have right system in place?

37:49It makes lot of money. You see even Tatas and Birlas and Adanis and Ambani's cannot have this level of profit.

37:54They convert 100 rupee note into 2000 rupees as the smuggling of illegitimate liquor is, spurious liquor is and also transporting liquor from UP into a state that is going into elections.

38:05That means lot of money. First they will try to win over the excise and the police officials. If they are unable to then the police and excise officials will chalan them, recover them and that is what the exercise of the proactive effort has yielded results.

38:20And I would compliment both the UP and the Bihar police for recovering unprecedented amount of illicit liquor.

38:27So is it happening under any sort of joint operation or is it happening in both sides individually?

38:31It always happens individually also but when there are elections there are joint operations, joint sharing of intelligence and joint rates also.

38:41I don't deny the fact that some of the liquor will not be taken away by them or misused by the local police officers. I also accept the fact.

38:48But 90% of the liquor will be displayed and declared as a contraband and almost 100%. But in one or two cases if this does happen I don't deny the possibility.

38:59But the police leadership now everything is done. You know what the advantage of having a mobile phone with of course people taking making videos, social media and some very very adventurous and proactive police officers.

39:11Because what they do is to take journalists along also. They make videos of the entire raid and the arrests and the recoveries. There is no escape from that.

39:18Because everything is into the media then immediately in real time.

39:23If we talk about the other border, the West Bengal and Bihar border, we are seeing a lot of discussions happening now especially around elections of illegal immigration happening from Bangladesh to West Bengal to Bihar.

39:37How rampant it is because it's it's reported that it's more prevalent in the Simanchal area.

39:43Simanchal area and you're very right Hina that's a very sore point. And that has been taken up by very many. But there are vested interests who are politically well entrenched people.

39:54I would say because you know what they say. This is our amanat. I failed to understand how can Rohingyas and illegal Bangladeshi migrants be your amanat. You know what amanat is.

40:04That we are responsible for their welfare and their maintenance and their upkeep. I really don't know where this level of magnanimity you have inherited from. I was expecting that you'll expect where you are. The people who you represent should be your amanat.

40:20And not hostile Bangladeshi and criminal Rohingyas. The purpose is to give them Aadhaar card, voters ID, give them a fake residence permit and then also give them the impression that they have been here.

40:33Natural Indians who have just migrated from West Bengal and they are and to convert them into voters. This is the DVS ISI plan that every sensitive constituency should have around 25,000 illegal Bangladeshi migrants given voters ID, given Aadhaar cards so that they can at least impact one constituency in a district.

40:55Like UP has 75 district. If they are able to impact one constituency, you know what, the scary situation that 75 MLAs of duly sponsored, aided and admitted by the ISI will come into the assembly and that's a huge number.

41:10They will not only be a part of the governance but they'll also have a major role to play in the government formation as well. This is how scary it is.

41:18If you were the DGP of Bihar, what would you do to eradicate the illegal immigration, the illegal immigrants?

41:27I will go back to your first question. There will be three doses of medicine. First will be the Gangsters Act. Second will be the UAPA.

41:36The third will be the NSA. All movable and immovable property attached. You will be convicted even before the election starts so that you are debarred for contesting an election for the rest of your life.

41:49Therefore, if you know what is good for you, you will not indulge in monkey tricks till the time I am your DGP. Because I will see to it that your political career is finished.

41:58Therefore, don't try to play and fool around people who keep India first, not money first. For those who it is India first and they decide to decimate all anti-national, they will do so in 45 days.

42:12This is what we have been able to do and this any person will do if it decides to decimate all anti-nationals. Anyone who is aiding and admitting illegal Bangladeshi and Rohingya migrants is an anti-national.

42:24I am giving you a very harsh statement but this is what I feel. Every illegal Bangladeshi migrant Rohingya is a ticking time bomb and therefore it is the duty of every Indian and law enforcement officer to defang, decimate and destroy that time bomb that is ticking between you and me and around us.

42:47Coming to another border, Jharkhand in Bihar. Talk to us a little bit about the problem of Naxalism over there.

42:57You see, the Home Minister has said that there will be the end of the Naxal problem by 31st March 2026.

43:07And I would tend to believe initially, I did not believe that he would be able to do. But the recent successes of the paramilitary forces and the police forces

43:15against the Naxalers have reinforced the confidence, my confidence that of others, old timers that yes, this is perfectly doable.

43:23Now only the residual part of Naxalism is alive. What began when we were young, when as a student of intermediate 10 plus 2, Mao Sittong's Red Book was very popular.

43:35Revolution begins from the barrel of the gun.

43:38Kranthi ki shuruwaad banduk kinnaal se hoti hai. Lekin depend karta ki banduk kinnaal kis ki taraf hai.

43:44Pulis ki taraf hai, aap ki taraf hai. Pulis ki taraf hai toh kranthi aur aap ki taraf hai toh narsanghaar.

43:50Ab thik hai, ye toh aapka interpretation hai. Banduk kinnaal sarkaar ki janta ki di hoi hai.

43:56It has been given to the police to be used for an appropriate and a legal purpose and that it has been used.

44:02You would be happy to know that very minimal number of cases have come against paramilitary forces regarding human rights violation.

44:10They have taken surrenders also. They have rehabilitated them. They have created India reserve battalions there.

44:15You can see for yourself in what manner and success that it is blow hot, blow cold.

44:22All kinds of treatment have been given to the Naxals. If you want to surrender rehabilitation, they are there for you.

44:27If you want to engage, so be it. There will be engagement. And the recent success was at all times.

44:33Two years of ration recovered, automatic sophisticated weapons recovered from the Naxal stronghold.

44:38And the manner in which they were able to get right into the den of the Naxals is a success story of fieldcraft and taxis and the training.

44:46Use of futuristic technology like artificial intelligence, the drone technology and robotics.

44:52Is indicative that the security forces are at least two generations ahead of the Naxals.

44:59Whereas till about ten years ago, the law enforcement agencies were a generation behind the Naxals.

45:06And in 2008, when Ajit Dovalji was the director of IB, he said that 40% of India's land mass is in the cover and control of the Naxals.

45:17And today see the situation. So I would say that yes, whether it is Jharkand, whether it is Pashtar or any place, I think Tirupati to Pashtupati, that's acronym and that tall claim no longer holds good.

45:34I think the only place is Jail or Bail.

45:37I think this should be the motto. This should be the standard call as far as Naxals are concerned.

45:47So the internal law and order situation in Bihar is also not good. Because recently, you know, we see videos of people very freely entering along with their guns, entering a hospital room, killing someone, then getting out.

46:00Everything is captured in CCTV. What do you have to say about the law and order situation in Bihar?

46:06Why is the police not able to crack down on these people who are freely roaming around in this state with all these weapons?

46:13You see, policing is a philosophy and an art and a science. And it's not a part time job. It's a full time job. And I feel that where such things are happening, obviously, something horribly has gone wrong as far as the policing is concerned.

46:29And the police leadership will have to set the course correction has to be set right. That course correction has to be there. And whatever the fault lines are, they have to be addressed too.

46:41And these fault lines are gangsters in Bahubali culture. Absolutely. How can anybody move with impunity, commit a murder and go away?

46:50Why is not the young dude waiting at the nurse crossing? Why are there no consequences? Arrests have been made, but they have been late.

46:58And it seems that it was totally orchestrated. I'm sorry to say, but I would have the distinct possibility it would seem that it was orchestrated.

47:06The person goes, murders, goes away. And then he's arrested and then he again goes to the jail like a hero. And then he's treated and looked after like a hero.

47:15As Mukhtar Ansari and Atik were looked after in the jails like, as you said, the Bahubalis. If that be the case, Sina, I'm not very optimistic of the law and order improving in a big way.

47:26There seems to be a level of patronage at some level. Paper leak scams in Bihar. You know, these mafias, they go to printing offices, they seize the papers, they give them to graduates and then they leave these answer sheets online.

47:42And then the students, I am asking this question because of the plight. Recently, we have seen a lot of voices coming out on social media where the students are talking about these issues.

47:52Sina, this is a human tragedy and it bleeds my heart to even to listen to them. Students, paper leak after paper leak after paper. I'm given to understand there have been recent years, there have been 18 paper leaks.

48:03And 18 paper leaks would translate that many of the students who started at the age of 18 are now over age, they are not eligible for any government jobs.

48:13That was best avoided. And one really has to try very hard to have this kind of a massive paper leakage. It is organized and orchestrated and obviously it has meant big money.

48:24I am more confirmed by what I am saying. It confirms what I am saying. Why? Because no deterrent action seems to have been taken right across the country.

48:39Take the weapons camp. Take the paper leaks in Bihar. Take the paper leaks in Uttar Pradesh. The STF have been able to recover but deterrent punishment has not been given out to any crime syndicate.

48:52What does that mean? There have been inevitable number of murders in the Vyapam scam but the deterrent punishment to the defaulters, the delinquents and the criminals has not been meted out.

49:04Therefore, my conclusion is with a very grave concern and element of doubt, I would say, there seems to be a complicity at the highest level. That is why the paper leaks. You allowed it to happen.

49:19And it happens because there is a lot, a huge amount of money. Oh yes, that is why. The fallout and the loot is so heavy that perhaps everybody is a party of that loot that this is the national tragedy.

49:32I do hope that the government has some road map to address this tragedy that is impacting the youth of the country and demoralizing them.

49:41Mutaki's visit to India. He recently visited Dioband in Uttar Pradesh. How do you look at this visit given the fact that this seminary, Islamic seminary Dioband, it has issued a lot of controversial fatwas in the past?

49:55You see, the Afghan foreign minister is at liberty to choose to go wherever he chooses to. And Dioband seminary is one of the most prestigious seminaries in the world, not only in India but in the world.

50:04The Diobandi school of thought is the most credible face in the world of Islam today. And therefore, if the foreign minister of Afghanistan chooses to go there, well, it is his liking.

50:17He was also made, he got a seminary on the hadith and after that he was given the title of a maulana also. And given to understand, he returned very, very satisfied.

50:26Of course, there have been certain fatwas that have had a lot of criticism outside, more so in respect of societal matters, more so in matters pertaining to the clothing of the women,

50:36more so in matters pertaining to the use of fashion and other use of technology. But that is a matter of debate. And a fatwa is actually an advisory. It is not an edict.

50:47It is an advisory. Like an advisory is given. Somebody puts a question and an advisory is given. It is not binding on the people.

50:55But you cannot deny the fact that Diobandi and Diobandi school of Islam have a tremendous hold on the people subscribing to the faith and has far-reaching impact on them.

51:07Therefore, as far as the constitutional part is concerned, it is an advisory. It is like that. Should you be drinking tea or you should not be drinking tea?

51:14And depending upon what your choices you are making, the fatwa is there to reinforce and support you in the course of action that you are likely to take.

51:22In your point of view, do you think that we need to cherish the relationship in order to counter Pakistan?

51:28You see, you cannot choose your parents and you cannot choose your neighbors. We are blessed with wonderful neighbors.

51:35Especially the failed state of Pakistan and a rogue state down south and in the east. Therefore, naturally, my enemy's enemy has to be my friend.

51:45And to that extent, I feel that Pakistan enemy, the Taliban Pakistan on Pakistan side and the Taliban of Afghanistan, they are already at daggers drawn and blows with each other.

51:57Therefore, it is a very sane and sound policy that your enemy's enemy is your friend. And as of now, I feel it is a very sound and a perfect policy, smart policy to befriend Afghanistan.

52:09Where do you see India in the next five years?

52:12I see India going from strength to strength, becoming the third largest economic power, jobs for everyone, improved law and order, greater public confidence in the law enforcement machinery.

52:24To your first question, if a single Indian is unhappy or feels insecure, the government has miles to go before it sleeps.

52:33Great. On that note, thank you so much, Vikram Singh, the ex-DGP of Uttar Pradesh, for taking out the time and speaking with Asianate News.

52:42It was an insightful conversation and hope to catch up with you soon once again.

52:46Thank you, Hina. That was a great interaction. God bless you. God bless Asianate. Thank you for your time.

52:51Thank you, sir.