- 19 hours ago
In this Asianet News EXCLUSIVE, Former DGP of Uttar Pradesh Vikram Singh shares expert views on a range of headline issues, including the shocking Chandigarh IPS suicide case and ongoing investigation; the arrest of Ladakhi activist Sonam Wangchuk; Afghanistan Foreign Minister Amir Khan Muttaqi’s visit to Deoband; integrity crises and reforms in the police department; law and order challenges in Bihar; and the alarming journalist death in Uttarakhand. Watch.
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00:00If you shoot on this four, the next four is standing up.
00:03We want to send our people to the government to send them to the government.
00:09Three buttons of my uniform open and I start dancing with my pistol in my hand.
00:14It is terminal cancer. I am sorry to be using very harsh words.
00:17Removing corruption from India is like removing capitalism from America.
00:22Then it gives the impression that the government is not serious about punitive action.
00:25What you would like to make a taabiz and set it at the four at every crossing?
00:30So today I have the pleasure of sitting down with Vikram Singh.
00:39He is a former DGP of Uttar Pradesh.
00:43And he is very well known for his honesty, integrity, bravery and for a lot of podcasts that he has done for a lot of digital channels.
00:51And of course, he is very vocal on TV also for his robust commentary.
00:56And currently he is also the chancellor of Noida International University.
01:02Sir, I have seen your podcast before coming here.
01:06And a lot of valuable life lessons, apart from, of course, a lot of commentary that you have made regarding the law and order situation in Uttar Pradesh and a lot of international topics also you have spoken about.
01:19But I want to initiate this conversation from integrity.
01:22Do we have any integrity which is the foundation of public service any longer in our country?
01:30Namaskar Hina Ji. I am ever so grateful to you for finding time on a holiday to share ideas, give me ideas and inspire me.
01:39Indeed, I am ever so grateful to you.
01:41And I do hope that there is something valuable, something worth listening to and a takeaway for the youth and others in the country.
01:49I would be truly blessed. Thank you for your time.
01:52You mentioned integrity. A man of integrity is a one person army.
01:58Without integrity, there is no service and there cannot be any service.
02:04The or she will be a mercenary, may be very competent.
02:09Robert Clive was very competent. So was Warren Hastings.
02:11So are so many others. But without integrity, they are absolutely good for nothing.
02:18And at the end of the day, the end product is going to be as horrible as a dishonest person.
02:23In Hindi, we have two words, safal. Chor and dakwar also safal.
02:28But if it is not sufal, sufal is a person who is a person of integrity.
02:33He can never be defeated. He is indomitable and can never, never be defeated.
02:39And therefore, we need to have men and women of steel.
02:44People who have a passion of public service and nation building.
02:49But to your question, are we having the right human material?
02:54I would not like to believe that some engineer and I would like to name and shame Mehra in Madhya Pradesh.
03:01Know allergies recoveries of hundreds of crores. Cottages, farmhouses, cars.
03:08A lady IES officer recovery of Crores of rupees and nothing happens.
03:13You also have I blame both.
03:16Both the giver and the taker as also the government and the law enforcement machinery.
03:23cruel to be kind to decimate corruption you have to have zero tolerance to corrupt practices and
03:29when i say corrupt practices integrity means to be an integral whole it just does not simply mean
03:35financial integrity financial honesty is a part of total integrity i should abide by the government
03:41rules government subjects on reservations government policies in respect of appointment
03:48and postings and promotions of minorities and those belonging to the weaker sections
03:53and also of prohibition practices therefore in totality suppose i'm a senior officer
03:59do you think for a moment that i can accept expensive gifts on the so-called birthday
04:04celebrations new years in the holy and diwali no i cannot there are government and conduct
04:09rules on the subject that prohibited prohibit me from accepting expensive gifts that is all a part
04:16of integrity can i go on social media no i cannot to go on any media social print or otherwise
04:23the government has to give me permission and that too when the government authorizes me to speak on
04:30a subject otherwise even to start a social media platform handle you need to have a permission i can
04:37speak only on two issues without government permission that is scientific or cultural or social nothing
04:45else i cannot say with three buttons of my uniform open and i start dancing with my pistol in my hand
04:52like the bangam that is in very bad taste because the basic two tenets of any public servant is
04:58self-effacing and to be in the background not to expose yourself not to speak about i did this and i did that it is in poor taste
05:09it shows that the person requires psychiatric intervention here a lot of police officers take bribe
05:14a lot of them are deeply embedded into corruption but the political backing is there they have something to lean on
05:21so then how do we deal with this should i say that only judiciary is our last option
05:26you see corruption is a multi-faceted dimension and a monster and which came first the politicians or corruption
05:33or these corrupt practices is difficult to say but corruption presupposes that some kind of a political
05:40patronage otherwise it cannot survive whenever you talk of corruption imagine that it is starting
05:46from the top and i don't condone anybody in the department also likewise if there is zero tolerance
05:53you also have certain chief ministers prime ministers who were epitomes of absolute integrity
05:59you have the example of chaudhary charan singhji you had the example of lal bahadur shastriji
06:04that upright life absolute frugality in personal matters so much so that when lal bahadur shastriji
06:12demoted office as the railway minister after major accident firstly resigned then he said that
06:19lalita ji the lady wife if there is dal there will be no vegetable and this vegetable there will be no dal
06:25that is the life of frugality that shastriji had today when i compare i find that even if there is a
06:31gram pradhan you just go and see his lifestyle the life she lives like a czar himself now coming to your first question
06:38a person who is corrupt has to oblige very many people to survive a person of absolute
06:46integrity is not dependent upon any politician he is not dependent upon anyone and she is not dependent
06:53upon anyone he can live with dignity and honor and having the satisfaction of a life nobly lived and a
07:00duty well done because he's not dependent he has to have subscribed to the rule of law
07:05and for that he does not require any political support or patronage how do we deal with it
07:09because right now as we are speaking there must be in many corners of the country there will be
07:14transactions happening under the table how do we tackle this it is terminal cancer i'm sorry to be using
07:21very harsh words so terminal cancer or cancer in the last stage will have to be dealt with in a manner
07:28that you deal it with multiple levels firstly i fault that there are no bad soldiers there are only bad
07:35generals the top leadership will have to understand that they are responsible morally and legally for any
07:42corruption that's happening and therefore if they decide that they'll come down like a ton of bricks
07:48on any act of corruption then heena i'm sure it will bring some change but so the people of the
07:54law also they have become you know habitual of giving bribe to police officers to get a few
08:00things done this has become a deeply embedded corruption has become as they say removing corruption
08:06from india is like talk removing capitalism from america in india when a person is born you have to pay
08:14the mother and the father will have to pay their way to get the child born and when the person dies he
08:21has to pay bribe to get the person cremated so even before a person is born and even when he dies
08:28the corruption is inbuilt in the system it has become a part of our dna that is a tragedy that is
08:33a tragedy and as even the prime minister i believe once mentioned there are four kinds of bribes
08:38nazarana shukrana zavrana dhamkana i really don't know but a bribe is a bribe and a corrupt practice is
08:46the kind of practice you i'm sure if you would be able to go through munshi prem chanzi namakka daroga
08:54and they try to enlighten the society that at the end of the day an honest man is better than
08:5910 000 dishonest men but there are multiple rows you mentioned society you mentioned people you
09:06mentioned the police and i'm saying the leadership and then the law enforcement agencies you also talked
09:12of the judiciary do you think that anybody in this country is above board in the judiciary
09:18justice yashvant varma g of delhi an entire corruption of any state on one side and the
09:25number of bundles of notes recovered in justice varma's house and look in the manner in which the
09:31kid gloves he was treated whereas to the contrary you should have been cruel to be kind you should have
09:37ensured that he was sent to jail you not only did not send to jail but you obstructed anyone who tried
09:43to send him to jail you obstructed the inquiry he should have been removed from office then and there
09:49if this is the kind of like this vehicle and the cavalier manner in which you are handling and
09:54dealing with corruption this should be dealt in a summary manner hina that a person comes to light
10:00okay i don't ask for anything revolutionally but the least you can do anything that comes to light
10:05get a case registered send the person to jail put him in a fast track court and decide in 21 working
10:11days this is the least you can do but you will decide in 10 years if at all you will decide
10:16you'll decide in a manner that you are extra liberal to the accused not to society or to yourself there is
10:21a bill that union home minister amit shah is backing which talks about how these people who have
10:28committed serious criminal offenses needs to be removed from their position within 30 days
10:34what are your thoughts on this particular bill ideally speaking this is an excellent measure but i would
10:40be very happy if it is implemented it's good to have ideas but ideas are ideas only if they're not put
10:46into practice they're only ideas i would be very happy you have mp amelius court you have fast track
10:52courts how many cases of gross corruption have you found being punished to the contrary i feel that
11:02things have not moved in the right direction especially in matters of corruption and i do hope the home
11:08minister he has been very successful in bringing up new laws abolishing old laws he's successful in
11:14implementing this being done rest assured hina it will be a great service to the nation but there
11:19is a criticism that what if the ruling government whosoever is in power may misuse these kind of bills
11:26anything give me anything fire weapon law is not likely to be misused anything is that but there are
11:35checks and balances to see that the misuse does not happen but first of all make a beginning at least
11:41try your hands out make an honest intent and i'm sure the great people of my great motherland
11:46will see to it that there is no miscarriage of justice as far as this sensitive aspect of jurisprudence
11:52is concerned do you think that in uttar pradesh the law and order situation is controlled because we have
11:58that kind of a chief minister in power and we do not see that kind of a clampdown happening in other states of the country
12:05you're very right within the state of uttar pradesh also the faithful implementation of the rule of law
12:11and when i say faithful irrespective of caste and community it cannot be selective show me the man
12:16and i'll show you the rules hina it has to be faithful and transparent so that anybody who transgresses
12:23the rule of law you should be aware that there will be consequences and the consequence should be
12:28immediate should be prompt and should be taken into action translated into action in immediate future
12:38not indefinite future that muzaffar nagar riots happen and the investigation and the arrest and the
12:45consequences happen after years together then it gives the impression that the government is not
12:50serious about punitive action in barely you would see and other cases the signal was very clear
12:56what the cm says means a lot because the police does not operate in vacuum
13:06it operates in a system and in the system if the chief minister says
13:13the police force of three lakhs in the state understand what the cm desires and then you can see
13:18the results for yourself also the immediate action that was taken and nothing very revolutionary
13:28but also the implementation of the internal security scheme which is the statute which is a book that is
13:33there in every district of the country but few choose to look the other way not to implement it
13:38but here you what you saw in banali ensemble was a paper book perfect translation of the statute into action
13:47prompt arrests prompt use of minimal force no use of lethal force to the contrary non-lethal force was
13:55used even though 22 police personnel were seriously injured in barely yet i salute the tolerance and the
14:02forbearance of the barely police and their leadership for taking into action and bringing about peace
14:07without resorting to the use of firearms talky reza his properties were demolished right after the
14:15barely violence why did it not happen earlier to your question i say that there are 100 patients
14:21in a hospital first come first served talky reza khan did not give the opportunity of service to the
14:30government of the department before and the moment he gave the opportunity and that he wanted to be
14:36served service was dispensed very promptly without fear and favor you see the government has not just
14:43the talky reza or anybody else it does not have a priority list but the moment i find that there's a
14:49person who's bent upon creating violence vitiating the communal atmosphere of the district then it is my
14:56painful duty to understand in what manner has he transgressed the rule of law like when a person
15:03patient goes to the hospital dr said i have a cold but during the course of the exercise that you have
15:08pneumonia during the course of pneumonia there is a biopsy that you have cancer then all the treatment
15:14from starting from cold to pneumonia to biopsy to every cancer he is given a treatment likewise in this
15:21also when he is being treated for creating a law and order situation hina it is also came to light
15:28that he's earning 15 lakhs a month on the basis of monthly rent that he is getting how by constructing
15:35almost 80 shops on government land that may not have come to the notice earlier and the government
15:41decided there are other important things to do in the festive season but when he chooses to challenge the
15:48authority of the law i am to dada khas dekeke apne a su rashi patty mahodeya kaya haa bhejna
15:54chate dyed hain kya abh ham roo bhi nahi saktayi see the high sense of drama that he has
15:59haap roo raha hai hai yeh ronne ka lihaaz hai haap ka. Aap kareing polis woal hoon ke hath kaart
16:03dhenge, ya doktor anadiem kaya karek haap kone kis ka hath kaart yeg, avhi haapko an daaz nahi hai.
16:07Runge number dialed ka zahmat na farma please don't try to challenge the authority of
16:13of the state and the police like that look at the audacity it is for the cyber patrol department
16:18and the intelligence that they said that nadeem had tried to befool the administration that we
16:25will not collect at islamia college we will disperse after the namaz friday namaz to the
16:31contrary they collected and they said that we will chop off the hands we will assault the police we
16:37will kill the policeman but we will see to it that our cause does not go unnoticed with this
16:42kind of provocation i tell you that banali police has been very forbearant very tolerant and absolutely
16:50conducted themselves by the rule law minimal use of force and that knowledge
16:55they are very lucky if you can understand if there had been different breed of officers there
17:00they would have forgotten their names and the names of the parents also
17:04uh when we talk about uttar pradesh the violent activities are happening from so many years
17:14there have been landmark incidents that happened in the state where these kind of clashes we saw
17:19communal clashes and non-communal clashes but do you think that the government needs to
17:25have a better communication with the people of uttar pradesh because there is a lot of
17:30you know discussion around how the government is not treating the minority right there is a discussion
17:35i do understand that there is a law and order situation which needs to be dealt with in a very
17:40stringent manner having said that do you think that the outreach of the government needs to be a
17:46little bit better you see winning the confidence that people is of paramount importance and that is
17:50why it is held at the topmost level to ignore anyone whether the minority or the weaker sections of
17:57course should be the topmost priority not to ignore but to have a dialogue and give them a self-confidence
18:04that their petitions and their requirements will never go unnoticed to the contrary the government
18:09will give the topmost priority to the requirements to the safety and their dignity and if anybody has
18:15not been able to do it beginning from the chalky in start to the station officer to the superintendent
18:19of police to the district magistrate to the commissioner to the chief minister the views
18:24the sense of security and the demands of the weaker sections of the minority should have the topmost
18:30priority make no mistake about it and if does not happen or the perception is made that the government
18:35is ignoring them even that is bad enough today a narrative is being built the government is ignoring
18:42the demands the rights and the sense of security of the minorities and the weaker sections because the
18:48vested political interest would like to believe pda pda may form some kind of an acronym for you but for me
18:57everybody is sacred not just what you would like to make a tabis and say it at the at every crossing every
19:06single citizen of india every single person is sacred for me and it is the duty of every police officer and the
19:12government something to suit to it that he or she should devote herself to ensure the safety security
19:19and honor and liberty of every person not just the pda but every single person and i do hope i am making
19:27a point clear yes because it may not make suitable street i'm not being very street smart when i use
19:33this two truths interconnectivity or inter transferability of both pda and the non-pda because
19:41i'm not a politician for me everybody is an equal of course the pda have special claim because of their
19:48weakness economic or otherwise but to make a fetish out of it that is something that i would question
19:54always don't make a fetish of everybody as far as everybody's security is important everybody's
20:00liberty is important and everybody's honor is important for you of course it makes political
20:05sense and smartness to create a fetish so that you can score political brownie points when i say you
20:10i mean my politician friends how much percentage of these police encounters are staged and how much
20:18how many of them are real again we talked of perception earlier to say encounter kardia encounter
20:24kar nahi diya jata encounter ho jata it does not it encounter is not orchestrated it happens and there
20:32are legal provisions to it the section 94 to section 106 of the earlier indian penal code in the right of
20:39private defense and in the bharati india sangeeta if i'm not mistaken i think it is 42 to 53 or 53 to 63
20:46these 10 sections of the martini and what is that minimal use of force to safeguard your life and
20:53that of any other person so that that person is saved is it misused if i shall put it like that did
21:00i not say that any statute is likely to be misused true and to say that cent person encounters are
21:05authentic i'd be living in a fool's paradise and that is why your concern is shared by the national
21:09human rights commission by the governments also that there are certain safeguards that have been
21:14inhibited and what is that if the deceased family feels that there has been a hanky-panky
21:20or there has been a cold-blooded killing they are at liberty to register a case against the firing
21:26and assault police party and that case will be registered at the police station but will be
21:32investigated by some other police station not by the same police station a report will be sent to the
21:39national human rights commission and also the state human rights commission a magisterial inquiry will
21:45also be ordered and the investigation and the final report if at all will be scrutinized by a judicial
21:52magistrate so these are the checks and balances that the government enforces and there have been very
21:56many cases in uttar position panjab where the police personnel have been sentenced and jailed for years together
22:03because of indulging in fake encounters therefore the police leadership have a task at hand that
22:09they should also ensure that there are no fake encounters and if there are any they should intervene
22:14intervene with a sense of purpose and register a case of murder against the delinquent police officers
22:20because one fake encounters erodes the entire goodwill of the police force during your tenure
22:26did you see this being misused of course i did see that multiple i could give cases of agra eta where
22:34there were one or two fake encounters and when the reports came i registered a case and entrusted it i
22:40asked the complainant you tell me any officer you trust who will do justice to you they named an officer
22:47and i told them that you have been entrusted by the aggrieved party the family of the deceased
22:54please see to it that you do justice don't try to see that since you belong to the police and the
23:00accused of the police department don't try to help your buddies there i would be extremely happy if you
23:05do justice to the investigation and lo and behold both cases ended in conviction it is for the police
23:11leadership not to be on the side of the assailant because there's a skull-blooded deliberate murder
23:16a murder is even lighter but a fake encounter is even worse a murder in police custody in police
23:23custody you see in this country we have had murder of mrs indera gandhi sardar bayan singh chief
23:29minister of punjab we had the murder of rajiv gandhi a murder and that too in police custody is
23:38absolutely reprehensible and puts police in very bad light including the murder of it appears that
23:45they were in collusion with collusion or incompetent or both but as far as law is concerned law says
23:53that there was a judicial commission and the judicial commission exonerated the police of any charges
23:59that they were complicit and therefore as law-abiding citizens i will let the matter rest because i cannot
24:06i am not above the law commission i am not above the rule of law if the law commission if the commission
24:12duly appointed by the government had a judge who was inquiring the matter i am not above him and
24:20therefore i have nothing to say but to accept the findings of the judicial commission latest we saw
24:26that in laddhak sonam vangchuk was the voice of all the protesters who were demanding for the sixth
24:32schedule there were a few you know statements that the government gave but no solid evidence that we saw
24:40in this particular case he is behind bars he has limited access to legal counsel do you think
24:46that this is a misuse of the act you cannot invoke the provisions of the national security act because
24:53you don't like somebody's face or at the drop of a hat there have to be cogent and legal reasons
24:58there are three conditions on which the nsa can be invoked number one public order that is known as
25:04lok vivastha number two national security number three essential services and supplies i'll give you
25:13example lok vivastha is not law and order like my servant is here he murders me it's a sensational
25:21murder it will be but it is not public order it is a local murder and therefore it impacts the law and
25:28order of the era that's about all public order is when there is panic in the whole district of noeda
25:33or lucknow and people shut their shops run away in panic go underground that's his public order
25:40in case of sonam vangchuk the government allotted him land for a specific purpose
25:45he misused the conditions he visited pakistan and i'm given to understand i have no proof but i'm given to
25:51understand that he met people who were inimical to the interest of india number three during the course
25:59of the laddak is a very peaceful place this is the first time such disturbances of course it is my
26:03legitimate right to protest against the government also it is my legitimate right to criticize the
26:08government if i choose to but if i promote violence if i instigate violence as a consequence of which
26:15lives are lost properties are burnt then their responsibility will have to be fixed therefore
26:22i for one i have shared the stage with sona wangchuk many times he's a brilliant person there is no doubt
26:27about it and i believe i don't see film but three idiots was a very popular film and he was behind the
26:32story of the three idiot films all having said that i have strong reservations against people your
26:39legitimate demands about the sixth schedule finding a place and also i agree with whatever you are
26:45saying that the local people should have a priority in getting the jobs there should be a ban on any
26:52number of outsiders coming and establishing shop in the peaceful place of laddak laddaki's people should
26:58have their own ethnicity preserved i agree in total but to that i would say the peaceful means of protest
27:05the legitimate means of protest not violence violence is not the answer because those that play
27:11with the sword shall perish with the sword you and i are not privy to the intelligence report but when
27:17you anybody in the district by the state invokes the provision of the nsa the matter goes to the
27:21advisory board which is headed by the serving high court judge and if there is any flaw that will be set
27:26aside in no time don't think for a moment that the district by the state is the sky and nobody above him
27:31the matter goes to the advisory board and after the advisory board it goes to the high court and
27:38unless the case is absolutely certain with cogent and logical reasons it will not stand the scrutiny
27:47of the advisory board and the high court uh additional dgp he committed suicide in chandigarh
27:54there was an eight page letter which was found in his pocket and he talked about how he was harassed
28:00uh at the hands of his seniors how much prevalence is there of these kind of harassment and you know
28:09mental torture activities in the police department let me tell you that the hands of the seniors let me
28:15tell you the police department is a very disciplined department and it's a family it's a family because
28:20starting from the right from the police constable right up to the dgp they are one big family there may be i don't say that
28:27that nobody is infallible and beyond reproach there are fault lines and those fault lines have to be
28:33addressed by the leadership this is a tragedy and the worst human tragedy because the brother officer
28:39died before his time and the allegations that he has leveled are very serious enough
28:45i would not like to believe that the allegations are true but the fact of the matter is if somebody is
28:48giving his life there has to be an element of substance in this in the matter and the allegations
28:54i do hope that the topmost priority is given to investigate and inquire into the serious
28:59allegations leveled by the deceased officer he was a very promising officer a good family
29:07but what prompted him to take his life and the allegations he's leveled need to be investigated
29:13very very thoroughly by an sit i also to your question does this happen in the police
29:20i have yet to come across because we are beyond caste and religion
29:24to the very end of my career nobody could know what my caste was people guessed whether i belong
29:30whether i was a jaat or a gujar or ahir or a malla or a thakur or a christian even
29:38it was at the very end of my career of 36 years people came to know the public of course in your
29:43service records it's known what caste you are but you take pains to give the impression that you
29:49belong to everyone and everyone belongs to you and should not give in thought word or any indication
29:56that you are of this community and you are have the propensity and the potential to favor this community
30:04or to be antagonistic to any other community okay we had a caste factor here in this particular case
30:12in chandigarh but apart from that did you ever face any sort of pressure you know at the hands of
30:18your senior that hey you need to do this whether it's wrong or right just say as per my command did
30:25you ever face this kind of pressure in your career sir never never i think a person who is upright and
30:30abides by the rule of law his reputation is known to one and all and unless that person has kind
30:36sentiments about himself he never asked you to do anything that is illegal or illegitimate
30:41because napoleon had said that in any organization there's always a percentage of people that is
30:47almost one percent who are ever ready to do anything that is illegitimate for furthering their own careers
30:54but i'm not a part of that one person and i'm happy that what napoleon said is true for also for the
30:59police that i'm sure that barring a few shameful exceptions nobody will subscribe to anything that
31:06is illegal or illegitimate a journalist who was making a report on the pathetic condition of hospitals
31:13in utrakashi in utrakhand his body right after a couple of days after his report uh he his body was
31:22found in the river you know seeing these kind of cases emerge when you do such hard-hitting
31:28reporting and a couple of days after you are no more you have a family behind they don't have anybody
31:33else to rely on how do you tackle this situation i'm asking you from a place of being a journalist
31:41myself are we safe in the country to ask hard-hitting questions to the authority to expose these kind of
31:48truths and especially at the time when we have these kind of social media platforms where everything
31:52goes viral so quickly heena i would advise you as a father that you are very safe journalists are safe
32:00but what happened to that journalist i would like a thorough inquiry as to the circumstances of his
32:05untimely and unnatural death and this is not the first death i am reminded that few years ago or
32:11several years ago there was another journalist in utrakhand who died under mysterious circumstances
32:15and the matter was investigated by the cbi doval you may recall just go and look up google and that
32:22also and it's not only these two journalists that have died under mysterious circumstances there are
32:27any number of journalists that have died under very mysterious circumstances and a few investigations
32:35have revealed that they were done to death by vested and criminal into people with criminal background
32:41therefore first thing that you have to be very careful about your safety and security
32:45not only by you any person when you're driving a car you have to be concerned about the safety by
32:52observing traffic laws in the police you have to be very careful about when you are going out for
32:56ambush and combing operations likewise when you are journalist more so if you are doing sensitive stories
33:03your security is of paramount importance and therefore your movement security within the home security on your
33:09movement especially and security at the workplace please see to it and then we can have another
33:15interaction what can journalists do who are doing high profile investigations and high profile cases
33:23sir you also led during your tenure operation majnu and there of course you speak very highly
33:31of the operation itself and the kind of results it fetched for you and for the community but i want to ask you
33:37you the same operation if it can be looked at from another angle because in the recent times we saw
33:43a lot of reports where men are being harassed men are committing suicide and they are doing it because
33:50women are harassing them by asking a lot of alumni maybe several other reasons if you have to look at this
33:58but if you are given a task for example from your senior that Vikram you need to solve this menace in the
34:05society how will you tackle it Vikram will pick up the top 10 cases of the district and entrust it to ace
34:12investigators which will at least have one woman investigated in the sit pick up the top 10 cases
34:18of the district and let it be investigated by sit which should have at least one lady police officer
34:25use all the ballistic scientific and forensic aids to investigation
34:29investigation and investigated at least in 30 days put it into a fast track court and see to the
34:37judgment comes in as early as is possible so that the certainty of punishment is the biggest deterrent
34:45to any falsehood including false rape cases false alimony cases false dowry cases and false charges in respect of
34:53harassment at domestic workplace and domestic violence and you now have the tools and the
34:58wherewithal in the forensics ballistics etc and a good investigation would be a perfect precedent 10
35:04convictions in three months and let me tell you that they will be the game changers we have elections
35:09happening next month uh and you know the same story i think will pan out this time also there will be
35:16elections there will be voting and then there will be reports of wood capturing hina let me tell you that
35:20booth capturing is a thing of the past now but it happened more so in 80s and 90s but we still see
35:26incidents of now what you have is a silent booth capturing silent booth capturing you know how it
35:31happens bribe money gifts like sadis liquor and these are things this is silent boot capturing now you have
35:41the technology you have cctvs you have election commission officers at all levels now you have the social
35:48media you have the print media and the social media has been the biggest death knell of all booth capturing
35:55but old habits die hard nobody can prevent the gifts of sadis suit links liquor and money
36:02that also is a way of booth capturing appealing in the name of caste and communal matters that also is
36:09booth capturing but those days where people would go and 20 people would go to the booth and stamp all
36:15them those days are over so today you see it has been perfected into a very subtle art of managing
36:23people and not only i would say manipulating the mindset and the thinking process through illegitimate
36:30gift because under the election and represent people's act giving of liquor giving of gifts giving of
36:36such gifts also is a crime is an offense and therefore i would appeal to the district officers and the
36:43election commission observers to see to it that the model code of conduct is scrupulously followed
36:49no gifts exchange hands especially liquor etc do not reach the electorate and those who are supposed
36:55to vote so during elections do you think that the illegal smuggling of liquor uh you know increases
37:02because we have these kind of activities taking place you see unfortunately what you say are very
37:07prophetic there has been very large number of recovery of illegitimate liquor along the up bihar border in
37:14the recent days if you just see the statistics of the last 30 days you see that recovery of illegitimate
37:21liquor contraband liquor on the up bihar border has gone up manifold you know why only because of the fact
37:28that it is being smuggled into bihar so as to be distributed to the electorate then if we know that this
37:34happens during elections then why is nothing happening in these border of course the things
37:39are that is why these things are being recovered had things not been happening they would not have
37:43been recovered and they would not have been caught but then how are people emboldened to do this if
37:49we have right it makes a lot of money you see even tatas and birlas and adanis and ambanis cannot have
37:54this level profit they convert 100 rupee note into 2000 rupees as the smuggling of illegitimate liquor is
38:00spurious liquor is and also transporting liquor from up into a state that is going into elections
38:06that makes means lot of money first they would try to win over the excise and the police officials
38:11if they're unable to then the police and the excise officials will challenge them recover them
38:16and that is what the exercise of the proactive effort has yielded results and i would compliment
38:21both the up and the bihar police for recovering unprecedented amount of illicit liquor so is it
38:27happening under any sort of joint operation or is it happening in both sides it always happens
38:33individually also but when there are elections there are joint operations joint sharing of intelligence
38:38and joint at rates also i don't deny the fact that some of the liquor will not be taken away by them
38:45or misused by the local police officers i also accept the fact but 90 percent of the liquor will be
38:51displayed and declared as a contraband and almost 100 percent but in one or two cases if this
38:57does happen i don't deny the possibility but the police leadership now everything is done you
39:02know what the advantage of having a mobile phone with of course people taking making videos social
39:07media and some very very adventurous and proactive police officers what they do is to take journalists
39:13also they make videos of the entire raid and the arrest and the recoveries there is no escape from
39:18that because everything is uh into the media then immediately in real time if we talk about the
39:24other border the west bengal and bihar border we are seeing a lot of discussions happening now especially
39:30around the elections of illegal my immigration happening from bangladesh to west bengal to bihar how
39:37rampant it is because it's it's reported that it's more prevalent in the simanchal area simanchal area and
39:44you're very right you know that's a very sore point and that has been taken up by very many
39:49but there are vested interests who are politically well-entrenched people vested interest i would say
39:56because you know what they say i failed to understand how can rohingyas and illegal bangladeshi
40:02migrants be your amanat you know what amanat is that we are we are responsible for their welfare and
40:09their maintenance and their upkeep i really don't know where this level of magnanimity you have
40:14inherited from i was expecting that you'll expect where you are the people who should be your amanat
40:20and not hostile bangladeshi than criminal rohingyas the purpose is to give them aadhar card voters id
40:28give them a fake residence permit and then also give them the impression that they have been here natural
40:34indians who have just migrated from west bengal and they are and to convert them into voters this is
40:40the dvs isi plan that every sensitive constituency should have around 25 000 illegal bangladeshi migrants
40:47given voters id given aadhar cards so that they can at least impact one constituency in a district
40:56like up has 75 districts if they're able to impact one constituency you know what
41:00the scary situation the 75 mlas of duly sponsored aided and admitted by the isi will come into the
41:08assembly and that's a huge number they will not only be a part of the governance but they'll also have a
41:13major role to play in the government formation as well this is how scary it is if you were the dgp of
41:20bihar what would you do to eradicate the illegal immigration the illegal immigrants i'll go back to your
41:28first question there will be three doses of medicine first will be the gangsters act second will be the
41:35uapa the third will be the nsa all movable and immovable property attached you will be convicted
41:43even before the election start so that you are debarred for contesting an election for the rest of
41:48your life therefore if you know what is good for you you will not indulge in monkey tricks till the time i'm
41:53your dgp because i'll see to it that your political career is finished therefore don't try to play and
41:59fool around people who are keep india first not money first for those it is india first and they decide
42:08to decimate all anti-national they will do so in 45 days this is what we have been able to do and this
42:15any person will do if it decides to decimate all anti-nationals anyone who's aiding and admitting
42:20bangladeshi illegal bangladeshi and rohingya migrants is an anti-national i'm giving you a
42:26very harsh statement but this is what i feel every illegal bangladeshi migrant rohingya
42:32is a ticking time bomb and therefore it is the duty of every indian and law enforcement officer
42:38to defend decimate and destroy that time bomb that is sticking between you and me and around us
42:47coming to another border jharkhand in bihar talk to us a little bit about the problem of nuxillism
42:56over there you see the honor the home minister has said that there will be
43:02known that the end of the nuxal problem by 31st march 2026 and i would tend to believe initially i
43:08did not believe that you'd be able to do but the recent successes of the paramilitary forces and the
43:14police forces against the knuckles have reinforced the confidence and my confidence that of others
43:20old-timers that yes this is perfectly doable now only the residual part of nuxillism is alive
43:27what began when we were young when as a student from intermediate 10 plus 2 mao situng's red book was
43:34very popular revolution begins from the barrel of the gun kranti ki shuruwaad banduk kinnal se hoti hai
43:40lekin depend karta ki banduk kinnal kis ki taraf hai puris ki taraf hai aap ki taraf hai puris ki taraf
43:47hai toh kranti or aap ki taraf hai toh narsanghaar abh thik hai ye toh aapka interpretation hai banduk kinnal
43:54sarkar ki janata ki di hoi hai it has been given to the police to be used for an appropriate and a legal
44:00purpose and that it has been used you would be happy to know that very minimal number of cases have come
44:07against paramilitary forces regarding human rights violation they've taken surrenders also
44:12they have rehabilitated them they have created india reserve battalions there you can see for
44:16yourself in what manner and success that it is blow hot blow cold all kinds of treatment have been
44:24given to the nakshas if you want to surrender rehabilitation they are there for you if you want
44:28to engage so be it there will be engagement and the recent success was an all-time two years of ration
44:35recovered automatic sophisticated weapons recovered from the nakshas stronghold and the manner in which
44:39they were able to get right into the den of the nakshas is a success story of fieldcraft and taxes and
44:46the training use of futuristic technology like artificial intelligence the drone technology
44:51and robotics is indicative that the security forces are at least two generations ahead of the nakshas
44:59whereas till about 10 years ago the law enforcement agencies were a generation behind the nakshas and
45:07in 2008 when ajid dowalji was the director of ivy he said that 40 percent of india's land mass is in the
45:15cover and control of the nakshas and today see the situation so i would say that yes whether it's jharkand
45:21whether it's pastar or any place i think uh tirupati to pashupati that's acronym and that tall claim no
45:33longer holds good i think the only place is jail or bail yeh lok yeh parlok i think this should be
45:41the motto this should be the standard call as far as nakshas are concerned so the internal law and order
45:49situation in bihar is also not good because recently you know we we see videos of people
45:55very freely entering along with their guns entering a hospital room killing someone then getting out
46:01everything is captured in cctv uh what do you have to say about the law and order situation in bihar
46:07why is the police not able to crack down on these people who are freely roaming around in this state
46:12with all these weapons you see policing is a philosophy and an art and a science
46:18and it's not a part-time job it's a full-time job and i feel that where such things are happening
46:24obviously something horribly has gone wrong as far as the policing is concerned and the police
46:31leadership will have to set the fault correction the course correction has to be set right that course
46:37correction has to be there and whatever the fault lines are they have to be addressed too and these fault
46:42lines are gangsters and bahubali culture absolutely how can anybody move with impunity commit a murder and
46:49go away why is not the young dude waiting at the nurse crossing why are there no consequences arrests
46:57have been made but they have made late and it seems that it was totally orchestrated i'm sorry to say but i
47:01would have there's a distinct possibility it would seem that it was orchestrated person goes murders
47:08goes away and then he's arrested and then he again goes to the jail like a hero and then he's
47:13treated and looked after like a hero as mukhtar ansari and atik were looked after in the jails like
47:19as you said the bahubalis if that be the case sina i'm not very optimistic of
47:24the law and order improving in a big way there seems to be a level of patronage at some level
47:30paper leak scams in bihar you know these mafias they go to printing offices they seize the papers
47:39they give them to graduates and then they leave these answer sheets online and then the students i
47:45am asking this question because of the plight recently we have seen a lot of voices coming
47:49out on social media where the students are talking about these issues sheena this is the human tragedy and
47:54it bleeds my heart to even to listen to them students paper leak after paper leak after pay
47:59i'm given to understand there have been recent years there have been 18 paper leaks and 18 paper
48:05leaks would translate that many of the students who started the age of 18 are now over age they are not
48:11eligible for any government jobs that was best avoided and one really has to try very hard to have this
48:17kind of a massive paper leakage it is organized and orchestrated and obviously it has meant big money
48:24i'm more confirmed by what i'm saying it confirms what i'm saying why because no deterrent action seems
48:35to have been taken right across the country take the weapons camp take the paper leaks in bihar take the
48:43paper leaks in uttar pradesh the stf have been able to recover but deterrent punishment has not been
48:50given out to any crime syndicate what does that mean there have been inevitable number of murders in the
48:56vapum scam but the deterrent punishment to the defaulters the delinquents and the criminals has not
49:03been mitted out therefore my conclusion is with a very
49:07very grave concern and element of doubt i would say there seems to be accomplice complicity at the
49:15highest level that is why the paper leaks you allowed it to happen and and it happens because
49:21there's a lot a huge amount of money oh yes that is why the fallout and this loot is so heavy that
49:28perhaps everybody is a party of that loot that this is the national tragedy i do hope that the government has
49:34some roadmap to address this tragedy that is impacting the youth of the country and demoralizing them
49:41mutaki's visit to india he recently visited dioband in uttar pradesh uh how do you look at this visit
49:47given the fact that this seminary islamic seminary dioband it has issued a lot of controversial fatwas
49:54in the past you see the afghan foreign minister is at liberty to choose to go wherever he chooses to
50:00and dioband seminary is one of the most prestigious seminaries in the world not only in india but in the
50:04world the devbandi school of thought is the most credible face in the world of islam today and
50:13therefore if the foreign minister of afghanistan chooses to go there well it is his liking he was
50:18also made he got a seminary on the hadith and after that he was given the title of a maulana also and
50:24he i'm given to understand he returned very very satisfied of course there have been certain fatwas that
50:29have had a lot of criticism outside more so in respect of societal matters more so in matters
50:35pertaining to the clothing of the women more so important pertains to the use of fashion and other
50:40use of technology but that is a matter of debate and a fatwa is actually an advisory it is not an
50:47addict it is an advisory like an advisory is given somebody puts a question and advisory is given it is
50:54not binding on the people but you cannot deny the fact that devband and the devbandi school of islam
51:02have a tremendous hold on the people subscribing to the faith and has far-reaching impact on them
51:08therefore as far the constitutional part is concerned it is an advisory it's like that should you be
51:13drinking tea or you should not be drinking tea and depending upon what your choices you are making
51:18the fatwa is there to reinforce and support you in the course of action that you are likely to take
51:24in your point of view do you think that we need to cherish the relationship in order to counter pakistan
51:28you see you cannot choose your parents and you cannot choose your neighbors
51:34we are blessed with wonderful neighbors especially the failed state of pakistan and a rogue state down south
51:41and in the east therefore naturally my enemy's enemy has to be my friend and to that extent i feel that
51:48pakistan enemy the tahriki taliban pakistan on pakistan side and the taliban of afghanistan they're
51:55already at daggers drawn and blows with each other therefore it is a very sane and sound policy that your
52:01enemies enemy is your friend and as of now i feel it is a very sound and a perfect policy smart policy to
52:09befriend afghanistan where do you see india in the next five years i see india going from strength
52:15to strength becoming the third largest economic power jobs for everyone improved law and order
52:23greater public confidence in the law enforcement machine to your first question if a single indian
52:28is unhappy or feels insecure the government has miles to go before it sleeps great on that note thank
52:34you so much uh vikram singh the ex dgp of uttar pradesh for taking out the time and speaking with asianite
52:42news it was a insightful conversation and hope to catch up with you soon once again thank you heena
52:47that was a great interaction god bless you god bless asianite thank you for your time thank you
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