00:00So today I'm being joined by Prakash Singh, an IPS officer who served as a DGP of Uttar Pradesh
00:14and Assam. And he's joining us to have a discussion with us on some of the key developments that we
00:19have seen in the past few days in the Delhi Redfoot blast case. Sir, thank you so much,
00:23first of all, for speaking with Asianet News. I want to begin with a very basic question. When
00:29this blast took place in Delhi on 10th of November, we saw that a lot of fingers were pointing
00:35towards Delhi police saying that this was a big intelligence failure. Now, when Pahlkam
00:42happened, these kind of talks happened at that time also that there was an intelligence failure,
00:46but that was a different case. That was Jammu and Kashmir close to the border with Pakistan.
00:51Cross-border terrorism also was a big factor. But here we are talking about Delhi where the
00:55terror attack happened after 10 years. Do you think that this was an intelligence failure
00:59at the part of Delhi police or maybe Jammu and Kashmir police?
01:03Look, it is all very easy to blame the intelligence. And every time a major incident happens, people
01:09say intelligence failure. But they forget that for the last 14 years, there has been no terrorist
01:16incident. The last major incident in Delhi was 7th September 2011. That was the last incident. So, for 14 years, we had come and we had come because the enforcement agencies were alert and a number of, they were in between, there were a number of threats and conspiracies and plots. But they were all frustrated and there was timely detection.
01:40Please remember that the terrorists have to be successful only once, but you have to be successful every time. So, I mean, if we have prevented 9 out of 10 attacks, but the 10th one somehow managed to get through, I would not like to call it intelligence failure.
01:59Maybe certain aspects of the plot are disturbing. The most disturbing aspect, as far as I am concerned, is the recovery of 2900 kilograms of explosives. Now, 2900 kgs is a huge, huge volume and it must have been transported in batches over a period of time undetected every time.
02:25So, how is it that so much of explosives could be collected at one place and an accommodation was rented and that it could be all stored there?
02:34I mean, if they had managed to store all these explosives, with so much of explosives, they could have prepared at least 15, 20 car bombs and sent in different directions to explode.
02:47And that they would have caused havoc in the country. Wherever these 20 vehicles would have gone, even unless they were intercepted. I mean, even at the point of interception, you can also set off the, you can trigger the explosion.
03:06And of course, you will be blown up in the process, but you can trigger the explosion. So, they could have caused havoc in the country. And how is it that so much of explosives were a period of, they say this conspiracy was incubating for about two years.
03:19So, for two years, for this kind of storage was happening. And certain people were involved and from the same university. So, I mean, there was definitely some failure in keeping watch over elements which are subversive, which are anti-national.
03:35Well, some failure was there. And I would like to attribute that mainly to Haryana police. Well, and to some extent to the Central Intelligence Agency, IB also, because they are covering the whole country.
03:48They might be, of course, the state intelligence is primarily responsible, but the IB cannot be exonerated. So, how is it that so much of explosives was stored over a period of time and this kind of exercise went on and on and we were not aware of it?
04:04There is another way of looking at it. You see, the explosives were detected. I mean, this was a huge intelligence success also. Because if this detection had not taken place, they would have caused havoc.
04:17And as newspaper reports say on the demolition of the Bavari Masjid anniversary, they were planning to send car bombs in different locations and cause explosions in different cities.
04:29They wanted a repeat of something like what they did in Mumbai. Yes.
04:33A series of glass they wanted to carry out. Yes.
04:36And some of the reports also point out that they were trying to mix potash, which is potassium chloride, with urea to have an explosive which is much easier to detonate.
04:46How easy it is for someone to walk up to these shops and gain access to these materials?
04:52You see, actually a lot of explosives are used in road construction. They have to widen the road, they have to blow up some portion and they have to carve out an alignment.
05:02That is the time when explosives are used and for road construction purposes, they are there in large, in huge bulk.
05:09Now, what is happening normally whenever these explosives are sold? I mean, there should be some kind of control and regulation about who is selling under what, whether he has the license to sell and whom does he sell.
05:24It can't be sold like any merchandise. One should keep a record of the transfer of possession from one person to another and there should be some rules laid down for that.
05:38I am sure there are some rules, but the rules are, they are seldom, I mean, it is very difficult to enforce those rules.
05:45And people who are greedy and they suddenly find that there is a vendor who is offering a very handsome amount of money and he is not bargaining also.
05:53So, he said, okay, I will take it, I will take it, I will take it, I will take it, I will take it. That kind of thing happens.
05:58So, in India, a lot of irregular transactions take place which remain undetected.
06:03This seems to be one of those exercises where they bought from different sources offering, I suppose, handsome amounts of money and so the vendors were happy to part with their contraband items.
06:17So, another unique challenge that we have seen in this incident is that the suspects come from a very professional background and they were the part of the white collar terror ecosystem.
06:29How can police identify and differentiate who is radicalized and who is not radicalized?
06:35Because here we are talking about doctors, professionals who are very much embedded into our society.
06:40No, it is not very easy because doctors are looked upon with a lot of respect.
06:45These are people who save lives. But here there were doctors who were planning to take away lives.
06:51Now, these things, whatever activities they indulge in, they indulge in very clandestinely and because they are educated, because they are professionals.
07:03So, they understand the limitations of police and what can be detected and what will be difficult to detect.
07:11And they take more precautions and they are more careful about their movement, their activities, their attempted indoctrination, their brainwashing of people who are vulnerable.
07:21So, they are very careful there. So, they take every step very cautiously, carefully and they try to ensure that there are no footprints left behind which would lead to their detection and apprehension.
07:35So, I mean, the more educated a person is, the more careful, the more discreet and the more cautious he is to make sure that police does not get scent of their activities.
07:48And persons who are indoctrinated, brainwashed and who are motivated to carry out blasts and other subversive activities, they are very carefully chosen and then he is also cautioned.
08:01So, it becomes difficult. When a person is less educated, he may falter here and there, but a more educated person is very, very careful about his identity and about his activities.
08:16Sir, without going into the political side of it, Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister said that he has not been told about the investigations so far whatever happened in the incident and he is asking for the restoration of Jammu and Kashmir's statehood.
08:31What is your point of view on that? He is saying that it is very important to gain the trust of the people because a lot of suspects come from Jammu and Kashmir.
08:41Look, I have written on the subject, it is there in black and white, anybody can see that. I have been writing very strongly that Jammu and Kashmir should be restored, the statehood it was deprived of.
08:51And I have also said that Omar Abdullah, the Chief Minister-elect, he has been behaving with great dignity and with a lot of respect for the Government of India.
09:06He has not said one word against the Government of India and he has not said one sentence which one could take exception to.
09:12So, considering all that, I think it is high time that Jammu and Kashmir restored the statehood, it was deprived of. They deserve it.
09:25And once you have a popularly elected Chief Minister at the top, the chances of people cooperating with the Government, the chances of people coming out with information about people indulging in subversive activities would be much more.
09:37And LG is after all, he is from Bihar, the bordering area of UP.
09:44I mean, however good he may be, he will not be, people will not be that much drawn to him or feel loyal to him or feel attached to him as they would be towards Omar Abdullah.
09:58So, I mean, I think government is not being very fair to the people of JNK and to the elected Chief Minister who has conducted himself with great dignity.
10:11The sooner we give a statehood, the better it will be for that state and it will ensure, that will ensure, I am sure, it will ensure greater flow of information from the people and greater cooperation from the people.
10:22And that will be good from all India, all India point of view also.
10:25We saw a blast happening in Pakistan also outside the judicial complex.
10:29Do you think that this is something which has been staged so that Pakistan wanted to prove a point that this is not, this is not which has been perpetrated by Pakistan.
10:39Pakistan is actually on the other side, which is the victim of terror.
10:43I don't think it is staged, it is just, you can say poetic justice because you are causing explosion in another country, so here it is one for you also.
10:53Some kind of poetic justice or natural, natural justice you can say.
10:58I don't think it was staged because they are having problems with Afghanistan and they are almost at war with that country.
11:05And the Afghans are, can pay them back at the same point, they are quite capable of that.
11:11Sir, India also needs to have a concrete evidence to link this blast with the state authorities in Pakistan, Pakistan's ISI.
11:19And until and unless we have that, we cannot take a stand against Pakistan militarily because we need something, some concrete evidence to back it up.
11:31No, I agree with you and I think they are working in that direction.
11:36And the way investigation is being conducted and the kind of reports which they are published about the progress in investigation every day,
11:45I must say they are going about it very thoroughly and very professionally.
11:48I mean there are dots from Kashmir to Palwal to Saharanpur to Lucknow and Faridabad.
11:59All these dots, they should be able to connect in due course of time about how the plot was being hashed,
12:06who were the conspirators, what was the plan and ultimately who were the handlers.
12:11Of course, it is said that there was one handler in Turkey also and these people were in contact.
12:23A number of Pakistani telephone numbers have been found in the diaries of the doctors.
12:28I am sure they are working on these clues and these leads.
12:31And in course of time, we will be able to establish that these are people who have the patronage,
12:38the protection or the guidance of Pakistan ISI.
12:43Once that is done, government will be able to nail, I mean we will be able to sort of come to a definite conclusion
12:51about the conspiracy and the hatchers and the conspirators and the plotters and the brains behind it.
12:57We also need to amplify the scrutiny on universities, educational institutions like Al Falal University.
13:03Though the university has said that we have no part to play in this,
13:06but scrutiny needs to be ramped up because these laboratories, as per the reports,
13:12are being used by these suspects to make all of these explosives.
13:17You see, these educational institutions, I think they also need some monitoring.
13:21They also need some monitoring.
13:23And what I am surprised is that this kind of thing was going on in Albala University for such a long time.
13:31And three of the prime suspects belong to this university.
13:35I mean, if you read the national education policy, it clearly lays down that the recruitment process for teachers has to be very robust and it has to,
13:47I mean, it should be very strict so that only the right people get recruited as assistant professors or in the faculty in any other capacity.
13:57Now, what kind of selection process they had or they were conniving at it, knowing fully well that this thing is going on,
14:03but the management turned a blind eye to their activities.
14:07Because three people from the same university is extraordinary.
14:10If there was just one person, it could have been said that,
14:14but three people from the same university and you have no clue about what they are doing,
14:22what they are indulging in, what they are plotting and how is their brain functioning
14:27and whether they are engaged in indoctrination of people.
14:30So, I mean, there is something serious and how these institutions are run.
14:35I think we need, I mean, any institution or I would say any institution where fundamentalist ideology is being propagated,
14:45is being nursed, is being spread.
14:48I think we have to clamp down on those institutions and they should be,
14:51whatever accreditation has been given to them should be withdrawn.
14:54And of course, action should be taken against people who,
14:57from the management who connived at it and those who are directly involved,
15:01of course, they should be booked into specific days.
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