- 13 hours ago
In this edition of Newstrack, the big focus is on the massive political face-off between Congress and BJP over former Army Chief General MM Naravane's unpublished memoir.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Battle Royale over books, day after Prime Minister's fiery Parliament speech, face-off
00:19over Nirwane's memoir rages on, Congress claims government scared of former chief's book.
00:30But BJP doubles down with library pitch.
00:59For war over Nehru and Indira, who will have the final word?
01:05It's the big book battle.
01:11The face-off over General Nirwane's memoir rages on.
01:16Rahul Gandhi quoted the unpublished book in the House.
01:20The Congress has claimed that the government is rattled by former army chief's memoir.
01:26Malik Arjun Kargay has accused the centre of fearing uncomfortable truths over China.
01:32But the BJP has now hit back and doubled down as well.
01:35BJP MP Nishikan Dubey has called for a library of books housing the misdeeds of Nehru Gandhi's.
01:43Parliamentary Affairs Minister Kiran Rijuju has also joined the water words, adding that the government kept Nehru's defeat against China a secret and stressing that defence matters cannot be used as a political tool.
01:58We are now witnessing a full-blown book versus book battle triggered by Rahul Gandhi, quoting Nirwane's unpublished memoir in the House.
02:07And as the legacy tug-of-war continues to intensify, who will have the last word?
02:12That's what I'm going to ask.
02:14Ask, in fact, the panellists will be joining me shortly.
02:16But first up, here's what happened today.
02:31It is book versus book in Indian politics.
02:34The BJP and Congress have locked horns over former army chief general Nirwane's unreleased book, which Rahul Gandhi tried to quote from In the Lok Sabha.
02:43Congress President Malik Arjun Khadge has slammed the government for blocking the leader of opposition from referring to the book in his speech this week.
02:52Whenever we are dealing with country groups, we have discussed
03:01and what is listening to the general
03:01General N sayin Nero Nicar strategically
03:04And you don't know who has published
03:07as a journal COire
03:09as our right side,
03:11you won't know who owns it.
03:14And you are talking about how hisiquementan sp discretion
03:17B.J.P.M.P. Nishikan Dubey on the other side opened a new front against the Congress.
03:28He called for a new library to house books, critical of Nehru Gandhi family.
03:47He called for a new library, an app and a library was sent.
04:04Parliamentary affairs minister Kiranری Jiju took on Rahul Gandhi with his hijab to counter
04:12government on the India-China conflict by quoting from General Narwaneh's book.
04:17The minister in a social media post pointed out that the BJP government did not release
04:22the Henderson-Brooks-Bhagat Commission reports on 1962 war that would embarrass the Nehru
04:28Gandhi family.
04:30The face-off between the government and Congress started with Rahul quoting from Narwaneh's
04:34unreleased memoir in the Lok Sabha, leading to a massive uproar in the House.
04:39The tanks were within a few hundred meters of Indian positions on the Kailash range.
04:53Next day, BJP MP Nishakandu Bey brought several books that slam Nehru and Indra.
05:09Rahul Gandhi has claimed the former army chief's book, if published, will expose the Prime Minister
05:34and Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, a charge strongly countered by the government.
05:38Narendra Modi and Rajnath Singh's reality is that when China was standing in front of us,
05:46he was coming in front of us, what happened in that line?
05:53It is completely completely.
05:55It was a full, a half hour, which was said to me to cover the US,
05:59she explained the claim to the China border, the former government was told about it.
06:05I think I've said, that in that moment, whether China, China,
06:10or United States, or the land, which is the point of when I also saw the United States,
06:15The row over Jain Narwaneh's book has intensified, and it appears the fire over this controversy isn't dying down anytime soon.
06:35With Piyush Mishra and Ashwara Paliwal, Bureau Report, India Today.
06:39Salman Soz is the National Spokesperson of the Congress Party.
06:45Sanju Varma is representing the BJP.
06:48Rajat Sethi is a political analyst.
06:49Rashid Kidwai is author and political analyst.
06:52Salman Soz, the flashpoint was ignited by Rahul Gandhi himself.
06:59If he quotes from an unpublished book, then the Congress should be perhaps prepared to listen to the Treasury benches
07:07when they are quoting from all the published books.
07:12Well, first of all, when the leader of the opposition speaks in Parliament on a very vital national security matter,
07:20then he's referring to an article in an Indian magazine about the memoirs of the former Army Chief General Narwaneh.
07:33And what we saw was the speaker did not let him speak, basically did not let the leader of the opposition speak.
07:40Mind you, he talked about how the speaker said there are rules and norms which do not allow publications, books, etc., to be quoted in Parliament.
07:51Meanwhile, the same speaker was presiding over a session when Prime Minister Modi,
07:57who somehow is in love with foreign countries and foreign publications, was quoting a Harvard University publication.
08:05No, that's a publication. There's a difference.
08:07Salman, Salman, no, no, no. I'm a published author myself.
08:11So let's be clear about the first draft, the manuscript and a published book.
08:15No, no. Rahul Gandhi was quoting an article.
08:20From an article.
08:21From an article.
08:22And, by the way, this is a very serious matter.
08:27And the reason it is a serious matter is because there are multiple reasons.
08:31First, the Prime Minister is on record.
08:34He has said,
08:37This is the Prime Minister of India said,
08:48So that's what even, no, no, no, no.
08:49No, wait, wait, wait, wait.
08:50I've gone through that article also, Salman.
08:52So there is certainly a problem here because as it is, you're quoting from an article.
08:58One, second, you're quoting from an unpublished book, which is unverified.
09:03I'm quoting right now with the Army Chief.
09:07Let me bring in Sanju Verma.
09:09Sanju Verma, this is a classic case of tit for tat.
09:16What did General Duvadi say?
09:20General Duvadi said that we need China to go back to status quo ante 2020.
09:29What does that mean?
09:31Where does China have to go?
09:32Who will answer these questions?
09:33Salman, I'm talking about the books which have come out.
09:36Now, for every point that is being made here, because you ignited the entire fire, you have opened the can of worms.
09:43So be prepared for any counter which is coming now.
09:46We are prepared for everything.
09:46Do you think we're scared of these people?
09:48Any counter that is now coming from the BJP.
09:50Go ahead.
09:51So, you know, I'm seeing a very, very positive change now in Parliament, Sanju Verma, when it is the books which are being discussed.
10:02Politicians are now looking at books.
10:03They're quoting it liberally as well.
10:05You know, Maria, like you are a published author.
10:09I've published two books on modinomics.
10:12So I'm a published author too.
10:13So I know a thing or two about books being published and being out in the public domain and books which are now out in the public domain and are still in the manuscript stage.
10:23But let's get to the bottom of this.
10:26First and foremost, Manoj Mukund Naravani, the former Army Chief, said three very important things.
10:34A, he said that not an inch of land was ceded by India to China.
10:40Second, he said China was at the receiving end.
10:44The third point he made was we stared at the neighborhood bully in the eye in a reference to China fair and square.
10:54But look at Rahul Gandhi.
10:56He chooses not to quote the flattering bits.
10:59He chooses to completely falsify the larger picture as is available supposedly in M.M. Naravani's book.
11:07But I want to say one thing, Maria.
11:09You know what?
11:12The same Congress party which is today standing in solidarity with Manoj Naravani has a history of undermining our armed forces.
11:21Do you remember a man called Sam Narekshaw?
11:23He retired in 1973.
11:26He died in 2008.
11:28He was given his pension in 2007, 34 years after he retired because a petty leader like Indira Gandhi could not digest the fact that Sam Narekshaw told her,
11:39Zulfikar Ali Guttow made a monkey out of you.
11:43Then let us not forget, the former Army Chief A.S. Vaidya, all his advisories to Indira Gandhi were discarded when she went ahead with Operation Blue Star.
11:55Let us not forget former Army Chief K.Sundar Ji.
11:59Every advisory of his was discarded by Rajiv Gandhi, the father of Rahul Gandhi, before he launched the highly unsuccessful Operation Pawan, whereby more than 3,000 IPKF forces were killed and there was so much bloodshed on both sides.
12:17Why did you not interrupt her even once, Maria?
12:20Why did you not interrupt her even when she was quoting from the same book that you seem to have issues with when we are quoting?
12:28When she talked about, she talked about, listen, she talked about three, she quoted three things, she said were positives, but you, Maria, did not interrupt her.
12:37No, Salman, don't, Salman, either you come and moderate the show or you don't keep telling me what I'm doing.
12:44What kind of double standard is this?
12:45There is a difference between a published and an unpublished book.
12:48No, no, no, no, listen to me, listen to me, it's very good for all of you to talk about books, but there is a problem here, Salman.
13:05If you have ignited the fire, then be prepared for all the muck which is there against the mishandling of the China issue in 1960s will surface.
13:17Please go ahead.
13:18Let me tell you about China.
13:19Let me tell you about China.
13:20Let me tell you about China.
13:20No, let her finish.
13:22Let me finish.
13:23Yes.
13:24Maria, Maria, I don't understand.
13:27I did not heckle Salman Sos even once.
13:30Can we have a sensible debate for a change?
13:331,383 Indian soldiers were killed.
13:37Maria, I refuse to debate like this.
13:40Either you take me on air or I don't want to be a part of this tutu, I'm a gibberish.
13:44Let me now say one thing very clearly.
13:47There is a book called The India-China War by Neville Maxwell.
13:51There is another book called The Himalayan Blunder by none other than former brigadier J.P. Dalvi.
13:57Yes.
13:58And of course, there is another book called My Years with Nehru by D.N. Malik.
14:02And they have all said one thing, Maria.
14:05They said that we lost the 1962 war to China because of two things.
14:11Nehru's arrogance and Pandit Nehru's incompetence.
14:15So, for the Congress Party and Rahul Gandhi to be flagging Naravaneh's book on the floor of the parliament and trying to make a point is laughable.
14:25I will just end in 10 seconds by saying one thing.
14:28You want to discuss books?
14:29When I say you, I mean the Darbari ecosystem.
14:33Okay.
14:33Let me tell you one thing and this you won't like, Maria, 10 seconds.
14:37The author is a man called M.O. Mathai, one of the closest confidants of Rahul Gandhi's grandmother, Indira Gandhi, before they fell out.
14:48What does M.O. Mathai say in his book, Remini Senses of the Nehru Age?
14:54He says, I was in a relationship with her.
14:58I was in a relationship with Indira Gandhi.
15:01Okay.
15:01Let me get a response from Salman Sos and then I go to others.
15:06Salman Sos.
15:06I will just say this.
15:08I want the people of this country to just listen just for one minute.
15:13One, when the India-China war happened, 1962, 1,383 Indian soldiers were killed.
15:20And the BJP has made it a routine thing to mock the sacrifice of those people by targeting Pandit Nehru.
15:24And by the way, Pandit Nehru spent nine years in jail, nine years in jail so that we could have the freedom,
15:33so that this woman could have the freedom to disparage his memory, the founder of this country,
15:39this shameless person and her leader, shameless people.
15:45They are the ones who talk against Indira Gandhi, the prime minister who led India to the finest victory
15:53that this country has seen in military terms and who gave her life for this country.
15:58They talk about the Gandhi family, the Rajiv Gandhi, the man who started India's modernization
16:03and was killed brutally, shameless people, ungrateful people.
16:08That's what has become more than that.
16:10Do you have no shame people?
16:13Rajat Sethi, come in now.
16:15I'm also Rashid Kidwai.
16:16Rashid Kidwai, multiple books.
16:20In fact, the BJP says that there are close to 150 published books which talk about alleged corruption
16:29of the Nehru Gandhi family, which will also become now admissible on the floor of the house.
16:37So, Maria, first of all, we must get facts right.
16:41Because in the entire debate, what I am seeing, the facts have become a casualty.
16:46The simple thing starts with General Naravani's book.
16:50A book was written, it was submitted, it was published, it was not allowed to be distributed
16:57because certain parts of it are thought to be removed by M.O.D.
17:02So, this is not the unpublished work as it stands today.
17:06No, no, no.
17:06So, it is wrong.
17:07Rashid, there is a difference.
17:09No, no, please don't tell me.
17:09There is a Rashid.
17:10Rashid, there is a difference.
17:11There is a difference.
17:13What is the difference?
17:13What I would say here is that the book has to be approved by the M.O.D., then only it
17:19can be released.
17:20No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
17:22Look, Maria, what is the, you know, if he had sought permission at the time of writing
17:29book and if the permission was denied, then perhaps this was justified.
17:34So, when the book was written, after that, ipso facto, you know, the objections have been
17:39raised and this is being going on between Penguin and the author and M.O.D.
17:43So, this is not a simple case of somebody seeking permission to write and General Narawane
17:49has not denied even one line of it.
17:52So, and to equate General Narawane's, you know, work and his writing with the trash that
17:59was written by Mathai and others, in any case, the chapter sheet that she is talking about
18:03was removed, was not published.
18:05Now, if when it comes to banning and extra books, that's the bad optics, that was wrong
18:10of the past.
18:10But let me also say that each case was very different.
18:13Many books that were published outside India were not allowed to be imported by the government
18:22ministry on grounds that is the product and the product doesn't suit us.
18:26So, all the bad optics of the Congress regime.
18:29Now, to say that journals had differences with political prime ministers, indeed.
18:34So, why we don't mention about Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat?
18:38Why she escaped that name?
18:40So, what I'm saying in a nutshell, Maria, this whole narrative is built up, it's curated
18:46and it is aimed at deflecting from the core issues.
18:50The key issue is that a member of parliament is entitled, regardless of this, everything under
18:56the sun can be discussed in Parliament of India.
18:59What happened to the proceedings then?
19:03What happened to the proceedings of the house?
19:04I'm going to make a point here, ma'am.
19:06No, let Rajat Sethi come in.
19:08Ma'am, please let Rajat Sethi come in.
19:09He hasn't spoken.
19:10Rajat.
19:12Well, Maria, there are a few technical points here and then there are a few more substantive
19:17points.
19:19The technical points being that can anything under the sun be put forth on the parliament
19:25and be discussed?
19:26Yes.
19:26The answer is no.
19:27You cannot be discussing a lot of things.
19:30There are clear boundaries.
19:31Those boundaries are debated, discussed upon in the business advisory committee of the
19:36parliament.
19:37They discuss through.
19:38And if you allow one book, then all kinds of books, maybe serious, non-serious, all of
19:44this will get tabled and the whole discourse will lead to another level.
19:48The second thing was, of course, here is more serious is whether it was published or not.
19:51Any serving or a recently retired army officer or a bureaucrat cannot come out and publish about
19:59the nitty gritties or the actual operative aspects of an ongoing war slash an operation.
20:06This is 101.
20:08This is not created by Prime Minister Modi's government.
20:11This has been in place for all the years.
20:14So, there is a degree of sensitivity involved and this is why the permissions were withheld.
20:19I am a published author.
20:20I had printed the map of India, of the northeast India on my book.
20:25I could not get the permission because this was prior to independence, that map.
20:29I could not get the permission and all the covers of my book after getting published were
20:33purged.
20:34That's how it happens.
20:36All publishers, and it was published by Penguin, the same publisher even in this case, they
20:40have to take this matter for due approvals from the required ministries.
20:44They need to give a go-ahead.
20:46And it was not given here.
20:47It is as simple.
20:48And certain early books are always published and distributed for reviews.
20:52This is the reason why certain copies were there in the public domain, but it was never
20:56put out for sale.
20:58Even the Amazon link was only for pre-order.
21:01They had jumped the gun there.
21:03They did not seek the adequate permissions.
21:05Hence, a book which did not have the adequate permissions was being tabled in the parliament
21:10and it talked about certain sensitive, operative aspects of decision-making.
21:16You have a defence committee.
21:18You have processes and procedures within the parliament to hold the government accountable
21:21away from the public player.
21:23And if you deem fit that these go through the due processes, and yes, it can be discussed
21:29in public domain, by all means do that.
21:31I am free and open.
21:32I believe that there should be open discussions.
21:35But I don't see anything.
21:36Where is the brouhaha coming from?
21:38This is very important, Maria.
21:39Prime Minister has said that I give the degrees of freedom required for the man standing on
21:44the ground.
21:45I don't withhold that degree of freedom away, deciding on my ivory tower, the way it happened
21:49in 2008, when our armed forces was ready to go out and attack Pakistan after the ferocious
21:54terror attack that they did in Mumbai.
21:57Our Prime Minister, who was sitting inside, took the decision in his own ivory tower that
22:02they need not go out and attack Pakistan.
22:03Okay, I have just enough time for Sanju Verma being the woman on the show.
22:08Please go ahead, ma'am.
22:11Rashid Kidwai is a very enubite person.
22:14He said, you know, tax written by M.O.
22:15Mathai.
22:16M.O.
22:16Mathai has clearly written in his book.
22:19I was in a 12-year relationship with Indira Gandhi before I decided to end it.
22:22My dear friend, that's not part of the book.
22:27That's not part of the book.
22:27The chapter C was removed.
22:30Mr. Kidwai, please keep quiet.
22:31Maria, this is not done.
22:32Each time I'm speaking, you allow your other guests to heckle me.
22:35What kind of a debate is this?
22:36Mr. Kidwai, please show up dignity to the other spokesperson.
22:40I did not intend that you keep quiet.
22:42Yes, ma'am.
22:42Go ahead.
22:4230 seconds.
22:43Yes, let me repeat now.
22:45M.O.
22:45Mathai in his book said, I had a 12-year-old relationship with Indira Gandhi before I decided
22:51to end it.
22:52When I saw her standing behind the curtain with another man, he was referring to none other
22:58than Dhirendra Brahmachari.
23:00This is in the public domain.
23:01And let me tell you, Tavaleen Singh has written a book called Dharbar, where she clearly said
23:06if you are not a Dharbari willing to tow the Dharbar's line, as in the Jehru Gandhi Paribas
23:12line, you will be discarded.
23:14There's a book written by Kumi Kapoor, The Emergency, which shows the dark side of Indira Gandhi.
23:19There is a book written called The Insight of Indira Gandhi.
23:21It's a long list.
23:22We can talk about all the books because certainly now it looks like that it will be a lot of
23:27literary discussion that the parliament will happen, will be seen.
23:32But the larger question really is that who really, you know, is this the direction in
23:38which the parliamentary debates should be finally headed.
23:42Thank you so much for joining us, Ms. Sanju Verma, Salman Sos, Rajat Sethi and Rashid
23:47Kidwai.
23:47That's all from me.
23:48Thanks so much for watching.
Comments