- 1 day ago
Cheryl Grace & Love McPherson in conversation with ESSENCE
Senior Lifestyle Editor, Victoria Uwumarogie.
Senior Lifestyle Editor, Victoria Uwumarogie.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Good morning, good morning, beautiful people.
00:04How are we today?
00:06So good to see you all on this morning.
00:09As she said, our wonderful host, this is the Joy Sanctuary.
00:12This is day two of the Joy Sanctuary.
00:14And we know something that brings everybody joy, usually, is love.
00:18And so we're going to have a conversation about how to navigate that as independent women,
00:21whether you are single and dating or in a long-term relationship or even married.
00:26So to help us do that, we've got some really, really great experts to come in and speak on our behalf.
00:32So let's welcome life coach and speaker Cheryl Grace.
00:37Give it up, give it up, give it up.
00:41And relationship expert and counselor Love McPherson.
00:49Welcome, welcome. Keep the welcome coming.
00:56So yes, everybody, we're really excited about this topic.
01:08So I'm going to hop right into it.
01:09I'm so glad to have you experts have your opinion on this topic.
01:13So to start, you know, for black women who are doing well for themselves
01:16and have been independent for some time,
01:18how do you handle your success and allow, you know, room to be made for someone else to come into your life?
01:27First of all, when I decided, and it was a decision, that I wanted to be married again,
01:33I got very intentional about cleaning out my space
01:38because I was used to always being alone.
01:42So my computer was my lover.
01:44I slept with it.
01:46I rode over in the morning to it.
01:48I went to bed with it at night.
01:50The computer and me were like this.
01:53So I had to move that computer to another room.
01:56Right?
01:56Because I needed that space to free up the space.
02:00And then I had to tackle my closet.
02:03There was no room in my closet for the clothes that I own, let alone for a man.
02:07So when you declutter your space and allow yourself to give space to the possibilities of someone coming in,
02:17that was really important for me.
02:19I love that.
02:20I love that.
02:20How about you, Love?
02:21I will say, first of all, that, can you hear me?
02:28You've got to push it up.
02:32Alright, thank you.
02:33Okay, I would say that when it comes to independent women, and you used another term to people who are,
02:40I'm not a fan of the independent woman.
02:43And I think the first thing we need to explore is if we are independent women,
02:47because independent means that I don't need any help from outside sources or any of that to make decisions and all of that.
02:55So if you're trying to go into a relationship as an independent woman, you actually have stopped yourself in the growth process.
03:02The process is dependent when you're a child, you have no other means of support.
03:08Independent is more of a teenage mindset where you are kind of like, oh, I'm independent, but it's immature because it's more me, me, me, me, me.
03:17But the goal is interdependence.
03:21And until you reach interdependency and have those type of skills where you are considering other people,
03:28just like Cheryl was talking about, you realize my space is not here.
03:33So once you reach interdependence, a mindset of interdependence, you say, I know I need to maintain both myself, me time.
03:41I need to maintain, allow him his time.
03:46And then I need, we need we time.
03:49So you've got to carve that out.
03:51My husband and I have been married for 39 years.
03:54Let me tell you something.
03:55Give it up for 39 years.
03:58That time is not carved out after we fill our schedules.
04:02That time is placed, our time, me, we, and us, you know, me, he, us, and we time.
04:09Those are carved prior to our schedules.
04:13And then we wrap our world around that.
04:17I love that.
04:18Thinking in that mindset, thinking in that mindset, you know, something that is often discussed is submission.
04:25That's a term we hear often.
04:26And no matter how well you do, no matter, you know, how you go into a relationship,
04:30there is kind of an expectation, I feel like, in society that to be in a successful relationship as a woman,
04:35you have to be a softer, you have to calm down, you have to be a different version of yourself.
04:39And let a man lead.
04:41I've heard that a lot.
04:41So there's nothing wrong with wanting that, but I was wondering, you know, it sounds like sometimes you just have to give that.
04:47So how do we handle that, hearing those messages as women looking for love or trying to maintain love in our relationships?
04:55You want me to take a example first?
04:56Now, let me tell you, when it comes to submission, that's kind of a biblical word that you pull out the Bible.
05:02But it also doesn't just say women submit to your husband.
05:05It says submit to one another.
05:06And that's really key.
05:08But let me tell you, submission is not, doesn't have to be a place of subjugation.
05:13That's a very different space of subjugation.
05:16When I came and got off the, out of my Uber today, there were some beautiful young ladies with white T-shirts saying they were event people.
05:26One was standing right there to greet me.
05:28I submitted to her saying, go and stand at the registration.
05:32It's not a place of power.
05:34It's not a place, it is a more of a place of order.
05:38And so when she told me to stand, then the other ladies greeted me and said, oh, somebody else is going to be here.
05:44Then Lanise came and greeted me.
05:45What?
05:46Because they were more powerful than me?
05:48Because they were trying to subjugate me?
05:50No, I submitted because I want the people who planned this to recognize that I understand order.
05:56And so when we are submitting, but guess what?
06:00If they had mishandled me, I would have to take control of my own life.
06:04So when you are under somebody and you're in a relationship with people who don't have your best interests at hand,
06:10who have not pre-planned like y'all been sitting in meetings for centuries to try to bring this about.
06:16By the time I got here, I saw the order that was done, and it was easy for me to submit and go from station to station.
06:24Before Lanise left me, you know, she said, and this is what's going to happen to you.
06:27She didn't leave me in a room.
06:29She made sure I was okay.
06:31When people have your best interests at heart, they will communicate with you in a relationship.
06:35They will tell you what's going to happen beforehand.
06:38They don't show up just with a car, and you don't know how y'all are going to pay for it.
06:41They're going to let you know step-by-step what's happening in the relationship.
06:46And when you see that there is love and intentional and interdependence, you will have no problem following the leader.
06:55Amen, amen.
06:57Cheryl, take it.
06:58So I agree to all of that.
07:00Yes, yes, love, yes.
07:03You know, and I was one of those corporate women.
07:05I was working, you know, 20, 40, 50, 60 hours a week.
07:11I was used to running things.
07:14And so to have that trust, and that's what submission is.
07:20It's trusting that someone knows what they're doing.
07:24It's trusting that your man, first of all, is being led by God.
07:29So you don't just submit to anyone.
07:31You are submitting to God.
07:33And if your guy is indeed a Christian.
07:37So I went after five C's when I decided I wanted to be married.
07:42First of all, he had to be a Christian.
07:45Secondly, he had to have character.
07:48He needed to have charisma because it's a lot of me to handle.
07:52He needed to have confidence.
07:54And together we had to have chemistry.
07:56But that Christianity was there first because if I was going to submit and allow myself to be led by a man, I needed to know that he was being led by God.
08:09And so I, and my friends were like, I can't believe that you're so submissive when you're around him.
08:15Girl, that's my man.
08:17That's my king.
08:18I got a man.
08:20You ain't got a man because you don't, won't submit.
08:25You know, so it's not about being in control.
08:27It's about trusting that he has your back, that he is concerned about what's going to happen for the family and not just for himself.
08:39So that's where it, it becomes easy to submit when you trust that he is following the path.
08:47Lord said to submit.
08:49I believe that he is God driven.
08:53And so I don't have any problem.
08:54Now my starter husband, the starter husband, girl, every time he told me to do something, I'm like, mm-mm, and that ain't right.
09:07And that ain't got nothing to do with the family.
09:08That's all you.
09:09That, mm-mm, we're not doing that.
09:11And that relationship lasted for a whopping 18 months because I didn't feel like I could trust him to have the best interest of the family.
09:20So that's the difference.
09:21Find someone you can trust and the submission will come.
09:25I love that.
09:25I love that.
09:26And initially you touched on, like, in the beginning you were running things.
09:29And so how do you, when you are used to running things in a certain way, when you get into a relationship or even a marriage,
09:35how do you broach a conversation about this idea of traditional, like, roles within a relationship?
09:41If you know, if you just so happen to know you are making more money than your partner, it can be awkward.
09:47So how do we do that?
09:48How do we, you know, balance, you know, you have these roles, I have these roles, we work together,
09:54and not like the expectation is on me, but also that you're not throwing that you, hey, I make all this money, okay?
10:00You need to be doing something.
10:01And so how can we kind of deal with that?
10:04Can I answer that?
10:05Yeah, absolutely.
10:06Never tell a man you don't need him.
10:09And I hear women say that all the time.
10:11I don't need a man.
10:12Hi, Robin.
10:13I don't need a man, right?
10:16Never tell a man you don't need him.
10:18He needs to feel needed.
10:21Whether or not you need him is not relevant.
10:24He needs to feel as if you are a princess that he can take care of and that you need that.
10:34Look, I get it.
10:36You got the kids.
10:37You got the job.
10:38You're taking care of things.
10:40You can hold it down.
10:41But don't you need a soft place to land sometimes?
10:44Don't you just need somebody to tend to your heart?
10:47I had an experience of, it was on Good Friday,
10:51and someone in my business had just let me down, just let me down.
10:56And I sat there and I cried.
10:58I was sitting there crying.
10:59And I don't cry easily.
11:00And I was crying.
11:02And he came downstairs and said, babe, what's wrong?
11:05Because I don't cry.
11:07He just held me.
11:10I needed that.
11:12I would probably never go and ask him for that.
11:15But he gave me what I needed at the time.
11:18So sometimes what I think is important is for you all to realize you don't have to be in this world figuring it out all by yourself.
11:27You don't have to be strong, again, if it's the right person.
11:31So we don't sit down and have a conversation.
11:33You do this.
11:33You do that.
11:34If I see that there's something that needs to be done, except for the garage, I ain't cleaning out the garage.
11:38But he called.
11:42And I have to also say you have to appreciate and not correct what they do.
11:50Appreciate and not correct.
11:52So he spent 20 minutes on the phone yesterday telling me that he had cleaned out the refrigerator.
12:02Now, yeah, I clean out the refrigerator every week.
12:05But he had to tell me about the red grime that was between the rollers and how he had to get down on his hands and knees.
12:12And he put a little thing in there.
12:14And he explained the whole thing to me.
12:17And I said, oh, honey, thank you.
12:20That's so great.
12:22I didn't say, no, boy, I clean the refrigerator every single week.
12:25And you ain't never listen to how much time it takes me to clean the refrigerator.
12:29That's not the point.
12:31Thank him.
12:33Don't criticize him.
12:34Thank him.
12:35Because if you keep criticizing him, he's going to stop doing it.
12:39Very good.
12:40You know, one of the things that I want to talk about, I want to touch on the part that you said, basically, how do you have it?
12:47If you're making more money than that guy and you're trying to discern, one of the things we have to realize is, and Cheryl touched on this a little bit, we have to also not just value the money.
12:59Because money should not be the indicator of duties.
13:02It should be what you're, you really do have to stop and take an assessment of your time.
13:09I have clients who may be, the female may be a doctor and the other guy may be a nine to five.
13:15It is just unreasonable to expect a doctor who may be on duty at all times and working long hours to have the same ability to come home and make you dinner and do all of that kind of stuff.
13:27So first of all, you've got to find out a few things that you need to be paying attention to.
13:32Do you have a guy who has a super single mom?
13:37Okay, and these super single moms are these moms who are taking care of their business, they are working, they are cleaning, they are doing all this stuff.
13:46Because sometimes when these guys have not really processed that out, they will have higher levels of standards for women.
13:54They will expect you to be able to do it all because they did not see themselves in the home.
13:59They didn't see the man come in and pick up where it was left off.
14:03So they're used to seeing women handle all of those spaces.
14:08And so you have to have those conversations and understand the man needs to understand himself, the woman needs to understand herself,
14:15and you need to stop because this conversation that you're talking about needs to happen during dating, not during marriage.
14:22That whole distribution of duties, you need to know if this, I had a guy when I was dating, you know, of course that was a lot of years ago,
14:31but I made the mistake of feeding him, right?
14:33And I can cook well.
14:35And he was still, well, so how about that macaroni and cheese?
14:38How often would you, I'm like, oh, oh, I was straight out of college.
14:41But you expected a wife who'd come home and have that homemade macaroni and cheese?
14:46Oh, baby doll, I ain't the girl.
14:48I am not the girl.
14:49And I'm not.
14:51And I had to recognize that because, no, I'm not going to be that domestic girl.
14:55I'm going to always be this career person.
14:57My husband supports it 100%.
15:00But you know what?
15:01He has his own life.
15:02And so he's busy.
15:03He's not just sitting here twiddling his thumbs waiting for me to come home.
15:07Ladies, if you know that you are going to hurt a man because he was neglected, he has issues or traumas related to neglect,
15:16and so therefore you not showing up feels like his mama not showing up or his daddy not showing up.
15:22And so you having been too busy feels like his mother not being there.
15:27If you see this is happening, you need to say, I need to pull away because I'm going this path and he's on that path.
15:34The other thing is this.
15:37Make sure your busyness and your failure to do what you need to do around the house is not a point of resentment.
15:47You know why?
15:50Because if you are used to covering your own self, you're that powerful woman, you're that ambitious woman,
15:56and you're used to covering yourself because daddy wasn't there, you will resent the man that still makes you operate in your testosterone
16:04rather than allowing the eve to come forth.
16:07You will resent that and you will feel like, no, you go do this because I am out here in the workforce and I'm combating this.
16:15And you'll have some levels of resentment and you'll stay at work later because you don't want to deal with it when you get home.
16:20There is a whole hormonal imbalance there.
16:25And so what you've got to do is you have to make sure you cover all of those bases when you begin to talk about distribution of roles
16:33and responsibilities and traditional roles when it comes to relationships.
16:38It's a whole thing.
16:39It is a whole conversation.
16:40It is a whole conversation.
16:41And like you said, you have to have it while you're dating.
16:43You have to be very clear.
16:45And that's one of the things we're going to talk about in the boot camp.
16:47You have to be very clear about communicating to your man what you want.
16:51They cannot read your mind.
16:53And we expect them, well, I shouldn't have to tell him.
16:55He knows.
16:56No, he doesn't.
16:57No, he doesn't.
16:58Clearly communicate what you want and how you want you all to live your best life, what that looks like.
17:05Map it out for him so he can see it and see if you're in sync with each other.
17:10I love that.
17:11And how do you maintain your independence while in a relationship, whether dating or married?
17:17Because like you said, your husband, he had his own thing going, his own life going on.
17:20So there wasn't that, I'm waiting on you to do this for me.
17:23So how do we maintain our independence as we navigate these relationships?
17:29One of the things that I would say about maintaining your independence, it is absolutely necessary.
17:35It's not an option.
17:36If I can get some water, it is not an option because, you go ahead and I'll wait.
17:43Okay.
17:44So maintaining your independence means, Rowena?
17:49Hi.
17:53Maintaining your independence means taking time to do you.
17:59During my starter marriage, I thought we had to do everything together because I was not secure enough in who I was.
18:08This time, a Saturday afternoon at HomeGoods store can restore me for like the next three weeks.
18:16And I know he don't want to go to the HomeGoods store.
18:19So I kiss him on the cheek and I say, love, I'm headed to my happy place.
18:24And I'm going to be so much happier when I get home.
18:29And he benefits when I come home because I'm happy.
18:34So that independence is really important for you as women not to think that you have to always give 100% of yourself to the man, to the kids, and you don't have anything left for you.
18:48Because if you don't have anything left for you, you can't pour into other people if you're depleted.
18:54So don't deplete yourself.
18:56And don't think that self-care is selfish because it's not.
19:01That's what I would say about maintaining your independence and ensuring you know what he likes to do.
19:09Map out time to do it.
19:10You want to make sure you keep the sex life happy.
19:13Now, if you've got younger kids, the last thing you want to do is have sex.
19:19I'm just going to say it.
19:21Right?
19:24So I became a sex star.
19:29Uh-oh, what?
19:30Yes.
19:31When we got married, I wanted to make sure that I was being intentional about having sex with my husband because I was working this corporate job on the road all the time.
19:40I just want to come home and sleep.
19:42Please, Lord, just let me sleep.
19:44But I knew that we needed that time together.
19:47And like you said, love, it shouldn't be an afterthought.
19:52So I got and went to the Dollar Tree store.
19:54Love me some Dollar Tree store.
19:55Went to the Dollar Tree store and got little stars, you know, the kind of stars that you got when you were in first grade and kindergarten, like those gold stars.
20:04I got the gold stars, and I started every day that we had sex, and I would set a goal for us to have sex during the number of days we should have sex in a week, and I would give myself, us, a star.
20:19I became a sex star.
20:20And so at the end of the month, what you could see was how often I had taken time to sex my man because it was important to him.
20:32Become sex stars in your own lives, ladies.
20:35It works fabulously.
20:37Very good.
20:38I would say about that, as far as becoming, taking time for yourself, there is a need for, in a relationship, in a healthy, functional relationship, there is a need for a chemical balance.
20:53And that is this.
20:54Both men and women, they release testosterone and estrogen.
20:59And so men should have, the man in the relationship should have 20 to 30 percent more testosterone inside of their system than the woman.
21:10The woman should have 10 to 20 percent more estrogen inside of her than the man, and this is how it happens.
21:18In a workplace setting where you feel like you are doing really, really well, you know, especially for you very powerful women who are in the workforce, that's testosterone being released.
21:28Notice how you feel you have to kind of man up in the, you know, when things are happening.
21:33And so what ends up happening is this.
21:36All of that testosterone is being released in that woman.
21:40But when she walks through the door and she feels the support systems, when there's the brunches with her friends, when there's the massages, and when she feels supported by her men and things like that, those are estrogen releases.
21:52That's the feminine that the men are saying.
21:55I want you to show up with the feminine.
21:56You better need, well, then you need to support the feminine to make it happen, okay?
22:00It's not just about me being nice, and it's a chemical balance.
22:06When men feel like they have not, when they have testosterone releases at work, but then they get home and they feel criticized, they feel like they're not doing it right, they can't get it right, that's estrogen released in them.
22:22So what you get is this angry man, this irritable man with too much feminine energy inside of him.
22:31And then when it comes time for sex, you don't want to because you're not attracted to that feminine energy.
22:37When you walk through the door and you're full of testosterone, he's not attracted to your male energy.
22:42But you feel like I've had to have testosterone all my life just to make it.
22:47Your mothers, a lot of times what you're doing, you saw your mothers doing all that work.
22:52They didn't even have the ability, the luxury of even operating in their estrogen.
22:57They operated so heavily in the testosterone.
23:01We have got to take care of ourselves and be intentional about those estrogen releases.
23:07That self-care is not selfish.
23:10It is, hey, babe, this is the time where I need some more estrogen releases.
23:15This is, and he, and complimenting him is not optional.
23:19Like she was talking about, this is a time where you are producing testosterone in the home.
23:24Once you, because a woman without enough estrogen will not feel sexual.
23:29I don't care how many stars she put on the thing.
23:31She'll just be like, can you get over with so I can put the star on the refrigerator?
23:35And so, and so what I am saying to you is make sure this is a very intentional thing that you do in a relationship if you want it to be functional.
23:49Clap for that. Clap for both of these phenomenal women's advice.
23:54I would love to talk about this all day.
23:56Unfortunately, we have time limits.
23:59Blame her.
24:01She was giving me the time over there.
24:04I'm just kidding.
24:05But no, you guys have been giving so much phenomenal advice.
24:07I'm certainly going to take back to my home.
24:10So I appreciate you.
24:11So where can people find you?
24:13I know you're about to do, you know, a whole talk.
24:15But where can people find you so that they can learn more and connect with you so that you can save their lives and their marriages and their relationships?
24:21You can find me at love underscore McPherson on Instagram.
24:26Make sure you follow me.
24:28On my website, it is lovemcpherson.com.
24:33And everywhere is just lovemcpherson.
24:35If you look up that, you'll find me.
24:37How about you, Cheryl?
24:38I am Cheryl Grace.
24:40So you can find me on Instagram under I am Cheryl Grace.
24:43Please follow me because my people say you need some followers.
24:47I am Cheryl Grace.
24:48And my website is I am Cheryl Grace dot com.
24:51And if you text the word ESSENCE to this number, pull out your phones, pull out your phones, 312-564-4499.
25:09I'll give it to you again.
25:10Text the word ESSENCE to 312-564-4499.
25:16We're giving away free dating journals slash kissing frog trackers.
25:21You've got to track those frogs to get to the man.
25:26312-564-4499.
25:30And then join me.
25:34Boot camp coming up on how to find and keep the man you love and deserve.
25:39We're doing it right across the hall.
25:42So come on and join me at the boot camp.
25:44Noon.
25:45Is it at noon?
25:46We're still on time?
25:48Yes.
25:49It's at noon.
25:50Right here.
25:50Across the hall, right?
25:52Is that where we're going?
25:53Okay.
25:54All right.
25:55Boot camp.
25:57Private.
25:58Sergeant Grace reporting in.
26:01Everybody give it up for Cheryl Grace and love McSierry Pearson very much.
26:07Lord.
26:07Sometimes, använd to the department.
26:09First of all we're going, we'll be next to you.
26:10We'll be next week.
26:10We'll be next week.
26:11Bye.
26:11Bye.
26:12Bye.
26:12Bye.
26:12Bye.
26:13Bye.
26:13Bye.
26:14Bye.
26:16Bye.
26:17Bye.
26:19Bye.
26:19Bye.
26:21Bye.
26:21Bye.
26:21Bye.
26:21Bye.
26:23Bye.
26:23Bye.
26:24Bye.
26:25Bye.
26:25Bye.
26:25Bye.
26:26Bye.
26:26Bye.
26:27Bye.
26:28Bye.
26:28Bye.
26:29Bye.
26:31Bye.
26:31Bye.
26:32And I'm wielu.
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