- 13 hours ago
Black Voter in a Red State: a panel discussion moderated by Miss Peppermint.
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00Welcome to Afropunk and the first of two panels by Black Queer Town Hall.
00:10Black Queer Town Hall is an event turned organization focused on uplifting and celebrating Black queer voices,
00:16especially in this political climate.
00:18We've had some really successful events in the past and we are so excited to be joining Afropunk this year.
00:25These two panels focus on the issues of voting from a Black queer perspective or people who identify as queer, queer-centric,
00:34a part of the queer community, we will find out.
00:37This panel may be by Black queer people but it is for all Black people to hear and understand these very important messages.
00:46I'm Peppermint and I've been featured on television and theater but today I am a concerned citizen and registered voter.
00:54And we shall begin.
00:59So Bob the Drag Queen and I basically put out the word to everyone on the internet
01:05and asked for everyday people who have something to say about what's happening in our country right now
01:11around voting, around Black Lives Matter, around queerness and anything else we want to talk about.
01:17And so we have some really awesome people who decided to take the plunge and jump into this very public arena
01:25and have a very important conversation for the sake of our community.
01:30And so I'm so happy to welcome our four panelists and guests, our esteemed guests who I've never met until this very moment.
01:39And so I'm going to say their names and ask you to say a little bit about yourselves.
01:43We have Warren Johns.
01:45What are your pronouns?
01:46And tell us a little bit about you.
01:48Hi, friends.
01:49My name is Warren Johns.
01:51I live in Philadelphia, PA in North Philly.
01:54My gender pronouns are he and him.
01:57And what do I do?
01:58I'm a little bit of everything.
02:00Tour guide, student, home healthcare worker.
02:02A little bit of everything.
02:04Awesome.
02:05D-Cal is our next guest.
02:09What are your pronouns and where are you from?
02:12Hi.
02:13She, her, hers.
02:15I currently live in Missouri City, which is right outside of Houston, Texas.
02:21And I am a stay at home mom.
02:23I have three kids and I have three step kids as well.
02:27So six total.
02:28And yeah, I'm excited to be here.
02:31Very happy.
02:32First time voter too.
02:34So yeah.
02:35I'm here.
02:36Thanks for having me.
02:37Next we have Liam Riley.
02:42And welcome Liam.
02:44What are your pronouns?
02:45Where are you from?
02:46And what do you do?
02:48I use he, him, his pronouns.
02:51I'm from Minneapolis, home of our OG queen, Miss Bebe Zahara Binet.
02:57And I'm a Virgo.
02:59How?
03:00How?
03:01Somebody's looking for a date.
03:03And last but not least, we have Phillip.
03:08Phillip, welcome.
03:09What are your pronouns?
03:10And tell us something about you.
03:12I'm so happy to be here.
03:13My name is Phillip Dupree.
03:15My pronouns are he, him, his.
03:17I live in San Francisco and I am an engineer and a climate activist with the Sunrise Movement.
03:23Well, this is definitely going to be an interesting conversation.
03:30I want everyone to feel free to just talk.
03:33We want to share and just kind of feel free to talk.
03:39This is not an interview.
03:40This is more of a conversation.
03:42And so if you disagree about something, if you agree, you know, obviously we want to let everyone say their piece and make sure we're not talking over each other.
03:49But definitely feel free to just speak out.
03:53Don't wait to be called on to speak.
03:55Please.
03:56Okay, so let's just jump right in.
03:59For those of us who are black and queer, we, I think we are in a really particular position in this country.
04:08We can, we have the ability sometimes to be in different groups of minority boxes, but they don't always so obviously intersect, especially politically and socially, really.
04:23And so how do you express and reconcile, not that it needs to be reconciled, but how do you carry your blackness and your queerness together?
04:34Are there times that you feel that you lean one way or another?
04:38Do you ever feel like those two sort of identities aren't given the same equal space in all of the areas that you occupy, whether it's with friends, family, at work, what have you?
04:51I'd just like to hear a little bit about that because I know that blackness and queerness are not, you know, mutually exclusive.
04:58Obviously we're, they exist in our full being.
05:03But I think a lot of people often separate the LGBTQIA community from the black community when they're talking about a lot of the issues that are important politically and socially.
05:13And so I just want to hear kind of your thoughts about those things.
05:18I'll start with Warren. Warren, you jump off and everybody else jump in.
05:22Oh, put me in a hot seat first. I was not expecting that.
05:25Uh, but, um, how do I express my blackness with my queerness?
05:28Uh, I, uh, I don't want to sound like that asshole, but I really just try to just be me and be my, be myself.
05:38Whatever moment I feel like being, I am that person. One moment I may feel blacker and one moment I may feel more queer.
05:45And I just kind of expressed it in that way. I don't really, I mean, right now there is definitely a different definition of how you express your blackness, especially considering the political movement we're in the midst of.
05:57Uh, but the way I experienced my blackness is by just elevating the black lives matter movement as best as possible and talking about issues that affect us from capitalism to local issues, uh, to education, to healthcare, and just try to like tie all those in, uh, back to like, you know, capitalism and how like black people historically have been, uh, the ones who serve capitalism and queerness as well.
06:24So I kind of, they, they work hand in hand together. I'm listening.
06:29They do, but okay. So like at a black lives matter March, are you wearing your crop top with your nail polish and your glitter? Like, are you doing that?
06:37No, I got, tell me the truth.
06:38No, I got, I got, I got, I don't see a lot of us doing that.
06:41No, at the black lives matter protest, I'm definitely like, uh, uh, dressed in all black, uh, have all my body covered up, wear my mask, got my glasses on. I'm very secure.
06:52I don't even keep my phone on me when I go to protest. I keep it on an airplane mode. If I do, I'm very, I know like how, uh, how deep this government will go to track down protesters, especially black gay protesters.
07:03So like I try to keep myself concealed, but I don't, when I go to black lives matter protests, I'm not, uh, uh, rocking my glitter and my crop top saved up for behind the door.
07:13Okay. Okay. Uh, anybody else? Feel free to jump in. I want to know. I just, there's an idea. I think at least that I felt when I've been to protests, a, it's really important to protect our body, our physical and our identity from the government, from the, the, the bullets and the rubber bullets and the tear gas. That's really important.
07:35So, but beyond that, you know, that, um, when I'm at a black lives matter protest or I've been invited into several conversations where we can have these really deep in conversations from a to Z where they feel like everyone else involved in the conversation who doesn't identify as queer feel like, honey, we talk about everything that matters to black folks, everything.
07:55Not one person mentioned the murder of trans women, not one person mentioned homophobia within the black community, not one person mentioned any of the things that affect queer people that might not affect all black people.
08:07And so I'm curious what your experiences in those conversations. I'm not just picking a one. I just want to hear from each of everybody. Jump in. If you have an opinion about this, is it important to talk about those things?
08:19I mean, first of all, absolutely. I think what I like about the black lives matter movement is that it's almost starting at square one, you know, like let's talk about why there is so much police brutality against black folk. Let's talk about why, you know, racism is not over. Let's actually sit down and have those discussions. Let's figure out how we can systemically change it.
08:43Like that is, or rather, at least it should be like all encompassing of black folk. So I think that it's a great place to start, you know, and sometimes like when you're, when you're at a BLM protest, like maybe you can just be like, I am just here to stand up for black people.
09:01And for saying that like, I am not okay with police brutality and that we need to change this, you know, at a systemic level.
09:08And I think there are moments when that's enough, you know, that's a great place to start and kind of a good baseline. It's like, yo, let's just like fix like systematic racism in like police departments across the nation.
09:19That's a great place to start. Let us go from there. So I like, I really support that. You know, there are moments when it's, and a lot of times when it, it is like a good thing to like, let's go deeper.
09:29Let's talk not just about protecting black bodies from the police, but let's talk about homophobia within the black community. Let's talk about just how impossibly difficult it can be to be black and queer or black and trans.
09:44But I don't know if that's like, there are times when I'm just like, you know what, square one, you know, reform in police departments, defunding the police, and then we go from there.
09:55I mean, that's a great point. When you talk about police brutality, I think that the first thing I think about is the unarmed black man, and then maybe next someone like Breonna Taylor.
10:06But we're not really talking about the transgender, the black trans woman who has been forced out of work and into sex work as a, you know, survival sex work, and has encounters with the police every day.
10:17And that's police brutality. And so when we talk about police brutality across the board, that's missing from the conversation.
10:23And so I don't know, what I think is necessary is for us to be able to, like, the black trans women know that when we talk about the police, that that's a factor.
10:35But I think there's a lot of other people that that just doesn't, it doesn't occur to.
10:39And so when we talk about starting at square one, does that include informing everyone else that police brutality, not only is it an unarmed black man who got pulled over for no reason, but it's also the black sex worker who's trans, or maybe not even trans, who is, you know, disenfranchised and marginalized and in jail, like Lailene Polanco died in jail.
11:03And what has happened? And so are these issues that are, when we talk about systemically, are these issues that you think are important to include in the conversation?
11:12I think I'd like to speak to that. Sorry, if you can't hear me.
11:19No, go ahead.
11:21Okay, so basically, I'm bi, but I'm married to a man, we're monogamous.
11:28And most of the people that I'm around are like his frat brothers or his frat brothers' wives and stuff.
11:36And so I feel because of that, I'm able to speak to these people about things that they may not be thinking about.
11:44Like if I'm around a bunch of omegas, which is kind of like...
11:48Cue sci-fi.
11:49Yes, they're a little more aggressive and very straight, and they're the ones who bark and all that stuff.
11:55The fact that I'm around them, but I'm also able...
11:58Yeah, yeah, yeah, they do that.
12:01The fact that I'm around them, but I'm also able to speak about gay issues and bring that to the table, no one's talking about that.
12:08Their wives aren't talking about it, they're not talking about it.
12:11So I feel like at least in that regard, like I'm able to reach more people because I'm around straights all the time.
12:19Not all the time because of the virus.
12:21But when I am, like I feel like that's very important for me to do because I really don't feel like...
12:29I mean, I argue with my husband about it all the time, about our kids and everything else.
12:33What would you do if our son was this or our daughter was that?
12:37Like it's a constant conversation, and I feel like he's grown a lot because of it.
12:41And I really feel like I've reached some of his friends as well, which I feel is hard with those type of aggressive black straight men that everybody like...
12:52I don't know.
12:53You know how they are.
12:54You've seen them.
12:55Yeah.
12:56Yeah.
12:57Yeah.
12:58So yeah, that's what I feel is important to bring up with them.
13:02Can I jump in there?
13:04Yeah.
13:05Because I really do feel like, you know, as an activist, as someone who's gone to these spaces,
13:10I feel like I lean into my masculinity in those spaces and I try to be like a strong black man because I think that's what is sort of respected as a black male activist.
13:24And I do feel uncomfortable with that.
13:26Like I feel uncomfortable with feeling like I have to dress a certain way, feeling like I have to use a certain rhetoric around like this could be me.
13:35I could be the black man who was shot down.
13:37I could be I'm intimidating to white people and I'm intimidating to the police.
13:43And that's why, like, my life and so many black men's lives have been so impacted by police brutality.
13:52But it does feel like I'm losing a bit of myself when I'm using that rhetoric.
13:56I'm I'm not talking about the fact that in my daily life I'm I'm pretty feminine.
14:02And, you know, I have nail polish on, but I'm not going to show that when I'm at a rally.
14:07You know, I'm not going to wear my more flamboyant clothes to a rally.
14:11And I think it I think you're totally right, Peppermint.
14:14And I think that we're really identifying something that's it's really hard when you're both black and queer.
14:19Like it seems like a lot of this movement is built around sort of the idea of how black people are intimidating.
14:29And I think that a lot of being queer and such is making yourself more accessible and making yourself, you know, more willing to interact with people.
14:42And I think that there's a way that I mean, and queerness is still extremely police.
14:48You know, Peppermint, you're talking about how, you know, sex workers are police.
14:52And like that's totally true. But I just there's this narrative of the movement where it's like so much about our our our masculinity or our violent nature.
15:05And I'm saying this both in terms of like black men and black women, like the reason that we are so policed is because of how aggressive we come off.
15:15And I think I come off a lot less aggressive when I'm presenting how I actually want to present.
15:22So when I'm at rallies, like I want to like, you know, be like that, like strong black man who like is fighting back against everything that we're going against.
15:33And yeah, it's it's a weird thing.
15:36So I really want to ask what, you know, I mean, that was those are really good points.
15:41But in my experience, a lot of black and when I go to like BLM protests and things like that, we really don't have the opportunity to express our queerness in the same way.
15:52You talk about systemic systemic issues in the police department, racism, brutality.
15:57I think our first our mind first goes, Philip, to an armed black man being murdered by the police in a car, things like that.
16:06But we don't necessarily tend to think about police brutality when it comes to black trans women as sex workers and their interact their daily interactions with the police.
16:15And a lot of times they're they're brutalized by the police in the same way.
16:20Layleen Polanco died in jail as a result of a lot of the problems in our prison system.
16:28And so I think blackness and queerness and transness isn't necessarily upheld as an important issue.
16:34And I'm just curious if you all felt free to talk about those things.
16:37Liam, jump in.
16:41Yeah, I definitely think that it's it's such an issue.
16:45And I think it's it's weird because like Black Lives Matter was founded by black women.
16:51Like it was founded with a very explicit intent to talk about the full extent of black life and the things that black people go through.
17:02But I do think that definitely the names that really catch the mainstream and the videos that we see a lot are just sort of videos of black men and a specific way that black men are hurt by the by police and by the prison industrial complex more generally.
17:22And I think it's on us as black queer people to be the ones to bring to light these stories of black trans women of black queer people who are hurt in in ways that are are definitely like in line with the ways that black people more broadly are hurt.
17:40But also very specific to the identity of like being a person who is black and queer, like black trans people, black women, they're being like assaulted by police officers, sexually assaulted, you know, like there's this whole extra dimension of like a very intense.
17:58Just like, I don't know, it's just it's very uncomfortable and I think that that's.
18:05I think that the reason it's hard for us to bring that conversation to the mainstream movement is because a lot of black community is very patriarchal and structured around centering black straight men.
18:18So it even feels like I'm putting myself in danger to like start talking about queer issues in those spaces.
18:25Why?
18:26Because I, you know, I've always had like a tenuous relationship with black straight men, you know, like, I felt like expressing myself around them could lead to violence for myself.
18:38So I think it's easy to just lean into like a hyper masculine sort of pretending that I do for myself when I'm in like Black Lives Matter type spaces.
18:50Yeah.
18:51Yeah.
18:52And Peppermint, I really want to just riff off what you and Liam said.
18:55I think that I think I definitely didn't communicate myself so well that first time around.
19:00Like, A, like being in San Francisco, like it's a, you know, you're lucky.
19:05Like every time I go to a protest, you see signs that say black trans lives matter.
19:09And I think it's a good point for me to realize that it seems like it's already there for me and I can kind of start at this baseline.
19:15But, you know, maybe that's a San Francisco, like, you know, Bay Area thing and like you're not seeing that brought into the conversation in a way that seems like, you know, a ground zero in other places.
19:25So that's, that's real important.
19:27And I fully agree that if you're not seeing that at your protest, that's a problem.
19:30Yeah.
19:31And that needs to be part of the conversation from the get go for sure.
19:35Yeah.
19:36I think what I was, was feeling was like, you know, like I am black and gay and I will always be both those things.
19:42So when I go to that protest and I'm there like throw down and I'm wearing like my, you know, my Black Lives Matter t-shirt, I don't necessarily feel the need to be wearing a crop top because at that moment I'm just like here to say Black Lives Matter.
19:54But should I feel a hundred percent like comfortable wearing a crop top?
20:01Absolutely.
20:02And if I don't, and like Liam saying, like, let's be honest, I probably wouldn't.
20:06Then that is something that's definitely worth talking about.
20:09I think I want to piggyback off what Philip is saying, the idea of like not seeing it because of where you're located in.
20:16I know in Philadelphia during, during the initial Black Lives Matter protest, we had a murder of a trans woman, Dominique Remy Fels in Philadelphia.
20:25So that definitely started a new conversation around Black Lives Matter and who is involved in that.
20:31And I think that, well, in Philadelphia.
20:33Nationally.
20:34Nationally, 100%.
20:35Yeah.
20:36But my anecdotal experience in Philadelphia, when that happened, well, before, when that happened, there was always a conversation about Black trans lives matter at protests.
20:45But Black Lives Matter, the protests that were organized in Philadelphia, they were organized by queer folks.
20:51They like, like DSA, Reclaim Philadelphia, Black Lives Matter Philadelphia.
20:56Like those are run by queer people, mostly queer people.
20:59And they're very visible in Philadelphia.
21:00And again, pumping off of what Philip was saying is that you see Black trans lives matter signs.
21:05You see, say her name over and over and over again at protests.
21:09So I, I see a different square one approaching where everyone is recognizing that this is an all inclusive movement.
21:17So I guess that's a privilege and I don't really think, I don't, I don't, that doesn't cross my mind sometimes.
21:23But it is unfortunate that in some cities, they don't really have that conversation.
21:27I can kind of speak to where the conversation is not being had.
21:33I think the first thing that I talk about with my husband a lot is I'm not going out to the protest.
21:40My daughter has like respiratory stuff.
21:42So I'm like, I'm home.
21:44But if I were to be going to the protest, I would not be going to fight for like my husband.
21:51I would be going to fight for my sons because a lot of the time Black straight men are the ones who are being violent towards Black women and Black trans women.
22:01Um, so it's kind of like, yeah, we're out here fighting for y'all.
22:07But like, I really don't want to be because like y'all are the ones who are doing a lot of the bad things.
22:13Honestly, um, every time there is some kind of article or story, he doesn't do it anymore.
22:20But the first thing that he was one of the ones who always said, was it a trap?
22:26And it's kind of like, when it comes to that, it's so toxic.
22:30And so I saw the eyes, I did the same thing.
22:33Like, it's so toxic.
22:36It's so like, just infuriating, because it's like, I mean, there's only so many times you can hear, but he didn't know before.
22:48It's like, he knew, he knew, like, there's how many people just don't know, you know?
22:55So it's kind of like, I just, like I said, when I'm in these situations and in these conversations, I try my heart and to try my best to be like, look, everybody's not like you.
23:07Everybody's not like me, like, and that's okay.
23:11Just stop with the victim blaming and the faulting and the trap conversations.
23:17Like, it's, it's, it's, it's disgusting.
23:21But, like, I, I can't let it go and be like, well, he just don't talk like that.
23:27Or his friends are just going to talk like that.
23:29Like, no matter what, no matter where, like, I'll go off in a club if they say something silly.
23:33I don't care.
23:34Like, you're not about to do that because it's wrong, period.
23:38It's wrong.
23:39I think part of the problem is that we're not, I mean, it's, it is like the toxic masculinity and patriarchy conversation.
23:46And all of those things fit so well, hand in hand, glove in hand, with, you know, this capitalistic society that we're in.
23:55But I, I do, you know, one, you're right, DeKal, one big missing piece of the conversation is sort of the accountability piece when we're talking about the victimization and the brutalization of queer black bodies.
24:08We are black bodies at the hands of anyone, especially other black folks.
24:13And, you know, when, unfortunately, there isn't really a place or a space, at least as me as a black trans woman, for me to have my partner come into the zone and be completely respected as my partner, who's someone who is deserving of respect and is identifies as a hetero man who loves a trans woman.
24:37There's just no space for that in a lot of these circles.
24:40It's like, no matter who you are in the queer community, you're gay.
24:44No matter who you are in the queer community, you're gay.
24:47And that is just seen as a negative.
24:49And so then I think a lot of us spend time trying to blend in, at least I can speak for myself, spend time trying to avoid those confrontations.
24:58And I think that comes, I think that's unfortunate.
25:01I'm very happy to hear that we are at a, we're certainly at a place where we're able to talk more freely, like on a, on a grand scale on social media, in national conversations about blackness and queerness being one and being connected to each other.
25:17But I like to, you know, I go off, I'm quick to go off on an LGBT conversation too, that has focused and centered mostly on white folks.
25:26Luckily, not luckily, but quite obviously in 2020, I think a lot of those white queer folks are realizing that that's just not it.
25:36That is not the conversation that's going to make it through to 2021 and that they need to engage with blackness in a way that, that is reverent of what's going on to all black people.
25:46And that when you're talking about LGBTQ, it includes black people.
25:49There is no LGBTQ without black people.
25:51But what I'd like to say to black folks and not just the BLM movement, but my family, friends around me, there is no black community without LGBT people.
26:00It's just, it doesn't exist, not possible.
26:04And I think that's the idea that people need to get their minds around.
26:07But we talk about the black community.
26:09I think a lot of it has to do with tradition and culture, especially in this country.
26:13Culture that I love, I'm very proud of.
26:15And I think it is, I've always thought that black culture in this country was compared to my white friends who didn't necessarily, who expressed not necessarily feeling like they had a culture
26:29when it was compared to the black community.
26:31But one thing that's always been true, damn it, one second, let me go back.
26:41Okay, here we go.
26:42I'm just going to pick that up, Mitch.
26:44A lot of my white friends felt like they didn't have a culture when compared to the black community and black families that they saw.
26:50And so I want to talk a little bit about black families, because I think when we talk about politics and voting, it's important to at least acknowledge,
26:58the history of voting.
27:00This is something that was obviously fought for for way too long to get the right to vote and be politically active without any repercussions in this country.
27:11And so what about your families?
27:13Did your families instill this sort of, you know, I think everyone here considers themselves an activist to a degree, at least, you know, in some way.
27:23And so is that something that you had to pick up on your own after coming into your adult life?
27:28Or was that something that was instilled in you by family and your surroundings when you were younger?
27:34And do you remember any sort of, any conversations about being very politically active and voting?
27:43And like, what did that, what was that like in your families?
27:46I want to know.
27:48Anyone jumping?
27:50I can.
27:51Is it okay?
27:52You want to go?
27:53Yeah, go ahead.
27:54Don't ask for me.
27:55Okay.
27:56We fight for it.
27:57All right.
27:58Basically, mine was a little different growing up.
28:02On one side, like with my mom's side, she was a Jehovah's Witness, which I now know is a cult.
28:09So they are against, they're a cult.
28:14They're against vote.
28:16They're a cult.
28:17I'm just gonna say that.
28:18They're against voting.
28:22Like you don't vote, like no politics, no nothing.
28:26But on the opposite side, yeah, on the opposite side, my dad was never in.
28:35He was in the military.
28:37So he respected my mom's side because she was the one who was taking care of us.
28:44We went to church with her.
28:45So he didn't say really anything about it because he knew what our beliefs were on that whole thing.
28:54So growing up, I really didn't have any interest in it.
28:58My mom died when I was 13, which had because of the cult.
29:04But after I was like of age 18 and stuff, I was in college and like drunk half the time.
29:10So I just didn't care.
29:12And married my husband, who as a black man in this country felt like his vote didn't matter.
29:19So like I kind of just jumped on the bandwagon with him.
29:22So we both have not voted.
29:24My grandmother is alive now, very older, older, like 80 something, I don't know.
29:32She couldn't vote.
29:34So it was kind of like I did not tell her I didn't vote for Obama.
29:37She probably would have killed me.
29:39Like, I'm finally decided I finally decided this year.
29:43Like, it matters.
29:44You got to do something like this is kind of ridiculous.
29:46Like, I have to do more.
29:48I have to do something.
29:49I'm teaching my kids about everything that's going on.
29:53But like, what can I say if I'm not playing my part in it?
29:57My dad was very disappointed this whole time that I wasn't voting because he was in the military.
30:02You know, this is something that he fights for our freedom to vote on both sides, you know.
30:07So I'm basically just finally getting around to we're both going to vote Monday.
30:13And just we got to do it.
30:15You got to vote.
30:16It matters.
30:17It counts.
30:18Like, regardless of, you know, electoral college and all that bullshit.
30:22You still have to try at least.
30:25That's my thing.
30:26You got to do something.
30:27I agree to call.
30:29I mean, I think there's a whole generation of black men out there who had that same attitude.
30:35It's like, my vote doesn't matter attitude.
30:37And unfortunately, that was a household that I was brought up in.
30:40It was odd.
30:41My father, my parents had one attitude where it was like, your vote doesn't matter.
30:47But that was their attitude when it came to the national elections.
30:51But when it came locally, unfortunately, they did vote Republican because Republicans were the capitalists and my parents always wanted to keep my money in their pocket.
31:01That's the conversation we have a bunch.
31:03I don't think my, my, now, but now my parents are like strong set on voting.
31:10They want to get involved.
31:12For me personally, how I got involved in the political ether in this country is when I was in school, in high school, Obama came to my, the Obamas came to my school twice in 08 and 12.
31:23So I felt like I was special, I guess, in a way.
31:26And I, I needed to be more involved and more politically active to understand why are they coming to our city?
31:33Why are they coming to our town so much?
31:34So that was, that was my experience with like getting politically active and how my parents were politically active.
31:42But I remember in 2016, I had a whole different conversation about that with my grandmother, because she was, she's always been a radical, like hardcore radical, peace fighting, Black Panther marching radical.
31:54And she was, and we had a conversation about who I might be voting for in 2016.
32:00And I was confused. And that's when I had a real conversation on like, the difference between a liberal and a progressive, what a democratic socialist is, and what a neoliberal is, what a capitalist society looks like, and how politicians fight for that agenda.
32:16So like, I had a bunch of different conversations with family, family members and friends that kind of, you know, contributed to my political thinking.
32:26Yeah, I think it's really interesting that both of y'all have talked about your grandmas so far, because like, it, that my story is the same here, like, and I think that speaks a lot to like, generational differences.
32:37What it speaks to like, also like what black women are able to do for their families, like generations down, even.
32:45And I think my first moment of like, political being conscious, conscious of stuff was like seeing, there's lots of pictures of Obama around my grandma's house.
32:58And she, that just meant a lot to her and her idea of politics.
33:04And I think that that was really interesting for me, because my dad was always telling me that these things didn't really matter, and that at the end of the day, it didn't matter who you were voting for, like, black men are going to get the short end of the stick in this country, and you just have to like, learn how to like, deal with that, you got to learn how to interact with police and like, you can vote all you want, but it doesn't really matter.
33:29Um, but compared to my grandma, who just has like this really, I bet, and you were talking about this pep of like what it means to grow up in a time when your voting rights were actively being challenged, and you are actively like being prevented from voting.
33:46And I think that's part of what makes her so wow that she was able to like cast a vote for our first black president.
33:53And I, it's a, and I, it's hard, because I like, I get both of their perspectives, like I get why my dad thinks like, I'm voting, but nothing's changing.
34:03And I get why a lot of black people are thinking, they, they're voting, they want to vote, they want to like make this country a better place.
34:11But when it's disregarded, and when you, when your actual life isn't changing on the surface, it starts to feel just kind of symbolic.
34:21Um, but I, but I like, I, yeah, I don't know, it's, it's, there's a tension there.
34:28Man, I think for me, like, I have so many feelings about this.
34:32Um, I mean, growing up, you know, I don't remember my parents ever saying like, you have to go vote, but my dad watched the news every night.
34:42You know, every night at six, like the cartoons went off, and like the nightly news came on.
34:46So even as a young child, I was understanding or beginning to understand that there's a big world out there.
34:52There's a lot of issues that there's conflict abroad, there's conflict here in the States, there are conversations happening.
34:59Uh, so I think that kind of got implanted when I was younger.
35:03And by the time I came of age, by the time I went to college, I was really interested in the world at large.
35:08I was really interested in international politics.
35:11I ended up studying politics at university, uh, kind of finding my way into activism a little bit later on.
35:17And it's funny.
35:18I mean, there are two things that just really set me off.
35:20Like one, it's just so difficult to hear people say, you know what, you know, our vote doesn't matter.
35:25They're going to pick who they're going to pick.
35:27And like, I mean, that, that crit, that cynicism comes from a legitimate place, you know, of decades and generations of either votes being suppressed or even the people that you voted for, you know, not following through on their promises.
35:40So I get where that cynicism happens.
35:42But I also see that coming from like, not just the apathy side, like from the left where some of my more activist friends are more like, you know, like, listen, voting's not the move.
35:52Fuck voting.
35:53Or sorry, just forget voting.
35:55But, you know, we just need like direct action.
35:59You know, we need direct action.
36:00We need direct activism.
36:01And I had to like kind of have that same conversation from the other side where I'm like, listen, you know, like voting is just so important because, you know, I am all for direct activism.
36:13I'm all for like marching in the streets.
36:15I'm all for like that's what's really going to make change.
36:18However, understand that that change is largely like influencing and like really, really pushing the systems that we have.
36:25Now, do you think that when we get out there in the streets for direct action that that's that push is going to go as far with four more years of Trump versus Joe Biden?
36:34Like, no, like the action, the activism is wildly important.
36:39Like we need to get out there.
36:40We need to march.
36:41You know, if if Biden's not falling through on campaign promises, then like day one, we need to be like pushing him to do that.
36:47But let's talk about what effect that activism is going to have, what the efficacy is going to be.
36:53It is going to be so much more important.
36:54It is going to go so much further, you know, under a Democratic Party like administration than it is faced with something like four more years of Trump.
37:05And this is not me saying that, you know, the Democrats are perfect.
37:09This is me understanding the extreme frustration that people have, you know, with the Democratic Party.
37:15But, you know, we're talking steps in that right direction.
37:19So that's I just feel like it's, you know, whether it's apathy or whether it's like an extreme kind of like activism, like start with voting.
37:27Start with voting for Democrats.
37:29And then we go from there.
37:30It's not over there.
37:31We start there.
37:33I want to actually like lean in on that a little bit, because, you know, in recent history, the many of the black, the black vote has been crucial in nominating Democratic leadership and leadership from the Democratic Party.
37:55You know, for the past 40, 50 years.
37:59And I think it's, you know, it's obvious that there, regardless of what you think politically, the system that exists doesn't work entirely for the benefit of black individuals.
38:15Regardless of how you vote, if you vote, when you vote, who you vote for, the system that business as usual is not good business for the black community at large.
38:27But, you know, there's I think because of that, there's been this sort of inlet for people to begin to cast doubt on voting period, but also voting as a Democrat.
38:43There's been a lot of like a louder ring conversation of the hashtag walk away movement, which is basically has two sides.
38:53It's it's purported by LGBT people saying that the Democratic Party isn't actually for LGBT people.
39:01The Republican Party is, you know, like the law cabinet Republicans, LGBTs, whoever they are, I don't really know.
39:08And also and also people like Candace Owens, you know, telling black folks that they shouldn't blindly vote for.
39:18They are just being cheap when they vote for it for anyone who's Democrat.
39:21They should vote for Republicans, the true party that cares about black folks and, you know, has done everything for black folks.
39:30And then and then they will use, you know, examples like these one little exception examples that like, you know, Martin Luther King was registered Republican.
39:41So you should be, too. And and so I want to know, like, what what are your thoughts about that?
39:47The Republicans are absolutely insane. These people will go to great lengths to manipulate the minds of its constituents.
40:02If they are they are useless, they are just scum Republicans.
40:07They all got to go. Now, with that said, the Democrats are also the do not the do nothing crap.
40:14They're not really they are willing to let the sheep from the old Republican Party into our party just so they can get Donald Trump out.
40:25Who created those sheep? If that made any sense.
40:27I mean, the Democrat Party has created the cynicism in people where they don't want to go out and vote, where they just stand back and don't do anything.
40:35It's it's it's unfortunate. Like, I'm not saying I'm on board with Candace Owens.
40:40I'm on board with half of what she's saying. I think she's a nut job. Trust me. But they're not wrong.
40:45We need to walk away from the Democratic Party and try our best to create a new party.
40:48I mean, more people trust the Black Lives Matter movement than the Democrats or Republicans.
40:53So if you can find a way to make a Black Lives Matter party, that would be a sufficient third party to get true economic policies off the ground that help black and brown people and LGBTQ folk because Democrats and Republicans are useless.
41:07They are absolutely useless. And they're only useful right now because there's a dictator in office.
41:13So after this, there needs to be stronger organization to getting our own third party out there.
41:20You know, Warren, I got to half disagree. Like, I think that it's true that the Republican Party of the Democratic Party has failed black people enough that they've allowed this wedge to be driven.
41:31They've allowed an inlet for people like Candace Owen to sow this discord.
41:35They're only doing it for their own gain. The Republican Party is never going to come through for queer people.
41:40It's never going to come through for people of color, at least not unless it has some sort of radical transformation, which would be lovely, but is unlikely.
41:47But, you know, I'm, you know, as much as I am like a progressive climate activist, you know, there's a some level of just like realism or not even realism.
41:59Sorry, that is the wrong word. But just like, I don't know, I cannot help but be a little bit practical.
42:05I am so worried that pushing for a third party system like this is really going to just split the vote and allow the Republican Party to accrue even more power.
42:14But that's what scares me the most. So for me, I still think like, yes, the Democratic Party has has made big mistakes and they should not have taken black voters for granted.
42:24They have. They need to get in there. They need to fix that shit ASAP and throw down for working people and people of color and queer people.
42:33That is absolutely the case. I believe that very strongly. But, you know, I think that we have to start with that.
42:39I think we have to start with radically reforming and making the Democratic Party more progressive and working for so much more people.
42:45We need to come back to the roots and do that in a strong way. But I am deeply concerned that a third party sort of push is just going to split the votes and allow the Republican Party to keep stacking the courts, to keep taking away rights and keep screwing over the America that I know we could have.
43:02I mean, I agree with your disagreement about. I agree with your disagreement about giving the power to the Republicans, but I also recognize that there is a strong populist movement going on within the Republican Party.
43:19They want to get money out of some people in the Republican Party also want to get money out of politics. They want to get dark influence out of politics as well.
43:27And there are some of the people in the Republican side. They are for economic policies that benefit Americans, that doesn't ship our jobs overseas.
43:37So I mean, they voted for Donald Trump because he was able to fool them about economic policies. I mean, was he not? That's what he did.
43:46Also, I think if we actually tried to educate people and inform people and not just write them off, we could get a working class populist movement in this country.
43:58I mean, we can talk to these rural areas and get them on our side if we just let them know that they're being blinded by the tentacles of capitalism that wants to keep us divided.
44:12We could keep going off, but I want to hear from DeCal.
44:14Can I just say briefly, like, I think what's so dangerous about log cabin Republicans and, you know, Candace Owens, it's like, it actually isn't a big thing in our community.
44:26Like, there are not, I don't know that many black people and I don't know that many queer people who are saying this.
44:33The reason that their voices are so elevated is because mainstream Republicans find the Candace Owens tweets.
44:40A bunch of white people retweet the Candace Owens tweet or retweet the picture of these log cabin Republicans and pretend like it's a really big thing.
44:50And you know what it causes, and I'm not saying that y'all two's exchange is bad, but it causes, like, infighting within our own community for us to be, like, fighting each other about, like, what it means to be, like, black and political and how left we have to be or what it means to be queer and political and how left we have to be.
45:13And I do think that there's a, I think that the Candace Owens type thing is just inflated in pop culture and stuff and in social media on Twitter, and I think we should be, like, less worried.
45:29I don't think that there are that many reasonable black people that are swayed by what Republicans are saying right now.
45:38I don't think there are that many reasonable queer people that are swayed.
45:41And I think that the conversation about, like, is the Democratic Party doing enough for us is different than the conversation about, like, what do we do with log cabin Republicans, you know?
45:55Yeah.
45:56I'm fully convinced that if my husband voted the last time around, he would have voted Republican.
46:02Like, he's super conservative.
46:05Our house is kind of run in a conservative way, like, the traditional sense.
46:09Like, he works, I stay home and cook and clean, and he sits on the couch and I bring him beer, all that stuff.
46:17And he wants guns and things.
46:20We're in Texas.
46:21He's like, they got him.
46:22We need him.
46:23That whole thing.
46:24But I also feel like he's, after the way the last four years went, he understands that, like, yeah, the Democrats didn't get as much done, but their hands were tied.
46:37When the Republicans' hands weren't tied, they didn't get nothing done for us either.
46:41So it's kind of, like, you got to go with the lesser of the evils.
46:46Like, that's really all you can do.
46:48It's, like, nothing's going to be perfect for Black folk in this country because that's not the way this country was built, period.
46:54But it's, like, the level of disrespect and the level of, like, fuck you that we've received the last four years, especially during the protests, it's, like, it's kind of, like, blatant at this point.
47:08Like, you can have traditional ideals and traditional values in some form or fashion, and that's fine.
47:15But, like, they look at you like you're trash, period.
47:20So, like, why would you do that?
47:22You know, like, he's a big, scary, dark Black man.
47:25He looks like everybody that's getting killed.
47:28That's what he looks like.
47:30So it's kind of, like, they don't want you to be a part of their party.
47:33So, like, why would you put yourself in that situation?
47:36Like, it's pointless.
47:37So we're on the other side now.
47:41I've been here, but he's joining this year.
47:44So I'm glad for that, at least.
47:46There's so much we could say.
47:49There's so many directions this could go.
47:51I think where I'm at right now is just, like, yeah, we could really talk about how this country doesn't work for Black folk and what this country could be, how we get it there, how we fix our history.
48:01I think for where I'm at right now, it's like we have to, we've got to get Trump out of office, we've got to get Joe Biden into office, we've got to focus on that for the next three weeks, and then we can, like, thrash out where we go from there.
48:13But I think that that is, that is what we need to do right here, right now.
48:18Go vote.
48:20Liam and Warren, tell us about, sum it up for us.
48:23I agree, obviously.
48:27Get Trump out of office and get Joe Biden in office, whatever that promise is.
48:33So far, it's just the I'm not Trump message, but sure, I'll give him the keys to the castle.
48:40He's, I mean, I voted for Joe Biden.
48:42I want Trump out of office.
48:43I am still incredibly, intensely, extremely skeptical of how they're pushing that he's going to be the most progressive president since FDR or how he's anti-Medicare for all in the middle of a pandemic.
48:58He's not, he's not for economic equality when we're creeping towards an economic depression.
49:04I don't, I don't feel like he has his ear to the wind like he should.
49:09The only, only thing he's listening to is Trump got to get off, has to get out of office.
49:13But what's replacing him?
49:15Is it more normalcy that created the space where Trump can thrive?
49:18That's, that's what I'm very skeptical of.
49:21It's like, how are you actually closing the window for this?
49:25Yeah, I totally agree with what everyone has said.
49:29Like, I think we have two goals.
49:31The short-term goal is what does the next three weeks look like?
49:34How do we make sure that black people are voting?
49:37How do we make sure that people are having their votes counted in a free and fair election?
49:42Because if we don't, who knows what happens going forward?
49:45And then I think the other thing, which is the bigger thing, is like, how do these conversations continue to happen?
49:52And how do we make sure that we actually make a better world for black people once that fucker is out of office?
49:59You know, like, what do we do?
50:01How do we make sure that Joe Biden is making sure that black people still have their rights and making sure that we, like, get better lives?
50:08Because we all deserve it.
50:09Black people, queer people, like, we deserve better lives in this country.
50:12And it's sad to hear people, like, all of us, and I have the same mindset that, like, we don't feel like this country is ours.
50:20And we can't, like, lay claim to it in the way that so many white people can.
50:26And that's just sad.
50:27And I just want to make sure that these conversations, which are really helpful, keep happening after Biden's elected.
50:33And that these conversations aren't just about, like, get rid of Trump.
50:38You know, it's like, not just get rid of Trump.
50:40It's like, actually make a world where black and queer people are valued.
50:45Yeah, don't forget we're fighting right now when you make it.
50:48Sorry.
50:50Okay.
50:51I think one of the things that's really clear is that whatever was acceptable, whatever would pass, whatever crumbs we were accepting in the past,
51:02prior to 2020, just are not going to be acceptable anymore.
51:07And it is important that these conversations don't just happen every four years.
51:12There's a lot of issues that are really important to talk about.
51:17And we obviously were just running short on time.
51:20But I want to just close out with this.
51:23All of these issues, whether they are Black Lives Matter, queer issues, climate change,
51:29and we're going to point to Philip's work and to all of your work individually in all of these different areas.
51:36These are such important conversations that have to keep taking place all the time.
51:41I do think that it is really easy for black folks, queer folks, and other people of color and other minorities
51:48to not feel like this country is ours.
51:52Because clearly it wasn't necessarily intended for our benefit.
51:55But we are here, and this is our country, and there's a lot of things that have to take place in order for us to get to the goal that we want to get to.
52:05One of the first things that has to happen is participation in the system.
52:08We have to vote.
52:09If we are not participating in the system, it will not just automatically change for our benefit.
52:14That's one thing I know for sure.
52:16And so it's so important that we continue to be engaged.
52:20I want to thank everyone for watching here.
52:22It is important that we all continue the conversation and stay engaged.
52:26And so if you want to hear more conversations like this from Black Queer Town Hall,
52:29please make sure you visit BlackQueerTownHall.org.
52:32Visit us on Instagram at BlackQueerTownHall.
52:35Twitter, BlackQueerTH.
52:37And YouTube, BlackQueerTownHall, where you can see videos like this and others of black folks celebrating their joy,
52:46their queerness, their blackness, and their right to vote.
52:49I want to say thank you to all of our guests.
52:53My name is Peppermint.
52:54Stick around for our next panel by Bob the Drag Queen.
52:58Until then, go vote.
Comments