- 13 hours ago
Gabrielle Grier (Juxtaposition Arts), Chirstopheraaron Deanes (Roho Collective), Cara Deanes (Roho Collective).
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00We are going to talk through how black artists have really used their art to
00:03inform and to inspire and to spark revolutionary action. So we're going to
00:09be talking to a really dynamic group of artists and curators about the ways that
00:13they have found that activism can really inspire their art. So we're going to
00:17start with some introductions. We'll start with you.
00:21Hello, hello. Peace, everybody. My name is Gabrielle Greer. I'm here to speak on behalf of
00:34Juxtaposition Arts on the North Side.
00:43Good afternoon. My name is Christopher Aaron Deans. I am a local artist as well as the
00:49director for the Rojo Collective. We'll get into that and talk to you about that in just a minute.
00:57Hello, everybody. My name is Kara Deans, and I'm the executive director of Rojo Collective.
01:04I should point out this is a husband-wife dynamic duo. Love it. Love that.
01:09I guess we'll start with a question for the whole panel.
01:12What role do you think that art can play in activism?
01:19Well, really and truly, you can't have activism without art. Activism has not existed
01:28in black and brown communities without the role of art. Capturing what has happened,
01:35capturing our voice, and being able to show that in a visual, musical way, right?
01:43So how we trap our history and how we trace our history, I think, as black and brown people is
01:49through the lens of art from the start of time, really. So one cannot exist without the other,
01:57and one does not exist without the other, in my opinion.
02:03Okay. I mean, I would agree. I don't know that there's ever been any movements where art
02:09hasn't been at the center of it. If you think about it, everything from gallery spaces and to public art,
02:16the way that it's shaped and molded the way people see and understand a community,
02:21understand themselves and their identity, and has pushed and really, I would say,
02:25anchored the way that activism and movements throughout the black community
02:31and also throughout black history, it's been a through line and a foundation and staple.
02:35Oh. Oh, please.
02:38I was just going to say I agree with these ladies. I do believe that as humans, we have a way of being
02:45and a way of knowing, and a lot of what you see and experience and talk about is our way of knowing,
02:53but our way of being is wrapped around art. It's wrapped around music. It's wrapped around visual arts.
03:00It's wrapped around sculpture. It's wrapped around photography, dancing. It's wrapped around textiles.
03:06It's wrapped around art.
03:08Yeah. So, you know, tell us more about the Rojo Collective. Where did the name come from?
03:13And what are you striving to create in Minneapolis?
03:17So Rojo Collective is a non-profits art organization that represents artists in the Twin Cities
03:23and nationally as of the last few years. So we really started as just a grassroots group of artists
03:33here in the Twin Cities that just got together, that were really just friends. Getting together to talk
03:39about how to elevate their work, how to collaborate together is really how the group started. And then
03:46really realizing that there is such a place of home that's needed for artists of color.
03:53And so that's really how the organization started. It just started from a community need and grew from
04:00there. So we got our non-profit status in 2015. And then Christopher and myself have been executive
04:07directors over the last few years and just have kind of expanded our vision and reframed and reshaped
04:13what our organization has done. And so we've grown really fast. I'm really proud of the work that we're
04:19doing. And really, we do anything to help elevate artists is basically what we're doing. Along with really
04:26working to eliminate a couple of things. One, eliminate the term of starving artist, because we just don't
04:32believe in that. So I do not pimp out our artist gifts for free. You know, we are about collaboration
04:41and elevation, but we really do that to support the work and really help artists on the back end
04:48of their business. So we're not an organization that's going to like do a painting class or teach
04:53you how to do, you know, whatever, right? But we will do a grant writing class. We will do a class on
05:00how to do your contracts and how to price your work. We will do a class on social media content for
05:06creatives. So that's kind of what we're about as an organization, along with doing community events and
05:11a bunch of other stuff. I love it. And I have to ask, are these your babies? Yes, they are.
05:18We are parents of four. And so, you know, they travel with us. So sorry, you will see them.
05:24Oh, don't apologize for this adorableness. Please do not apologize. Do you want to say something?
05:31No? Okay. Well, thank you for being here. So Gabrielle, they were talking about how they want to eliminate
05:37this idea of starving artists as someone who is an artist and works with artists. Is that a mentality
05:43that you have faced in your work? Yeah, I mean, I would say at the crust of everything, definitely
05:51thinking about the things that we do at Juxta. It's about saying that young people don't have to wait
05:56to learn how to be entrepreneurs. You don't have to have a degree to make money. And so our work has
06:03really been about ensuring that they, number one, having a space to really explore a variety of
06:10different areas. So everything from architecture and urban planning to community activism to graphic
06:17design, pottery, contemporary painting, sculpture. And by exposing them to a variety of different
06:24mediums, supports their ability to figure out what their purpose is and what their pathway is.
06:29And so I think as a person that's supporting that level of movement and also entrepreneurism,
06:35I would be a phony not to do the same. So I feel like it's about understanding how to price your
06:41work and sticking to it, ensuring that people understand that your value and your life experience
06:46is also transferable just as much as a degree and often more. And so young people need to know that
06:54now, today, and not wait till they're 20 or 25 or 35, you know, selling their prints for 20 bucks a pop
07:02and not understand that there is entrepreneur and business skills that are connected to being an artist.
07:11Absolutely. I mean, something that you all have brought up is this idea of helping artists, especially
07:17young artists and artists who are traditionally marginalized, really understand their worth and walk in that power.
07:23I do think we have this mentality, or I'll speak for myself. I have had a mentality earlier on in my career where
07:29making money was a dirty word, a sin. I have to feel very guilty for, you know, trying to charge my work, my time
07:37appropriately. How do you combat this? And how do you go about helping artists unlearn this idea that
07:45there's something wrong with wanting to be paid your worth?
07:52So I, one of the things that we talk a lot about, because we do these workshops for artists
07:58and themselves as a small business, everything from grant writing to workshops on website development
08:06to marketing to you name it. One of the things we talk a lot about is the positioning of who you are
08:13and what you want to become. And I think that building that trajectory for artists is just for every
08:22business, every small business, is that you have to figure out where you are and where you want to get to.
08:28And in order to make that journey happen, you have to surround yourself with the right people that will
08:33not just empower you with the right tools, but to encourage you with the right dynamics to get there.
08:40Because honestly, Minnesota isn't the best place for people to buy art because there's not a lot of art
08:49buyers happening, right? We have to teach our community as well. And so it's not just the artist's mentality,
08:55but it's our population's mentality as well. We have to teach you that the worth of the artwork,
09:01the worth of the music, the worth of everything that we do as creatives is just as valuable as a Chicago artist,
09:10just as valuable as a New York artist. And so those things are critical in the process and in the trajectory
09:16of building that process for us. So that's a big part of it.
09:20I recently read that, I can't remember the stat off the top of my head, but some astronomical number
09:27of the country's wealth is in art investments. And it made me wonder how, I mean, I am, I guess I could
09:35imagine that the people who are owning the majority of that wealth through art investments probably don't
09:41look like me, probably don't look like us. How can we help our community see the value of art and make
09:47sure that we are not locked out of access when it comes to making investments in art, since we know
09:53that it's such a powerful way for folks to, you know, make investments?
09:58I'll say, I mean, if you think about folks like Jay-Z or like Swiss Beats, who are on the cusp right
10:05now of saying, like, Jay-Z has a line that's like, you know, I bought this artwork for two million,
10:10four years later, it's worth eight million. I can't wait to give this to my children.
10:14And the point of that is, I think, trying to make the movement of art buying a part of mainstream,
10:22not only hip hop culture, but also black culture. And I think the thing that's critical is about
10:28reshaping the definition and people's understanding of the value of art, and that it is an investment.
10:36And so unfortunately for our folks, for black folks, if you're trying to survive, if you're out here trying
10:42to hustle to make ends meet, it's really challenging to think about taking money to then invest in
10:48something. But it's no different than the way that folks should be thinking about 401ks. It's another
10:53form of investment that has a value or an opportunity for value years later.
11:00Yeah, I mean, one of the, I mean, I'm happy that you all are doing the work to make sure that black
11:08folks are more represented in the art world. But one of my questions is, we know that, you know,
11:13black voices, black talent, black brilliance, we are very, are artistic people. And so I wonder,
11:20like, what would the art world be like without us?
11:22I heard someone say there wouldn't be one. I mean, can you imagine, like, what would it,
11:31what would it be like? Like, we are such a big part of what art is.
11:35Yeah. I think not only are we a part of what it is, but it's just who we are. As black and brown
11:45folks of color, it's just who we are, and it exudes out of us. I think it's just something that has
11:52been placed in us since birth. So, yeah, it just would not exist if we did not exist. And so we
12:00wake up with an internal drumbeat, right? And it's our job to make that drumbeat louder and louder so
12:06we can hear it down the streets and we can be effective in our own creativity. Like, everybody
12:11is an artist. Everybody was born with creativity because we have the ultimate creator that created
12:16us. So that's just how I feel.
12:24So, I mean, another question that I have, I feel that, I don't know if anybody can identify with
12:29me on this, but it's so easy for folks to say, art, who cares about art? Go into a trade, go into
12:37business, go into science. How do we help? Like, if you wanted to be, if you, if I came home and I
12:42told my mom, mom, I'm going to drop out of college and I'm going to become an artist, I don't know that
12:46her reaction will be very positive. How can we reframe the conversation so that folks can really see
12:52that there's power in art?
12:55I'll definitely start. This is a conversation we have every day at Juxta with folks, parents, and with
13:03young people. And I think this is also another opportunity to reframe what an artist is. When my, I call him
13:10my, my pottery cousin, Theaster Gates, he's a big, big, just, I would say he is the truth when it comes
13:20to thinking about blowing up what it means to be an artist. And he's taking in movements like
13:26architecture and design and community development and reshaping for people what it means, what artist
13:32and how that moves. I think the biggest thing that I always say is like, you can't be a strategist
13:38and not be an artist. You can't be a visionary and not be an artist. You can't think about things
13:45in terms of what could be or what could possibly be without an artistic element. And my push is too
13:53that like, man, we think in images. There's a reason. Our thoughts are imagery. And, and so I believe
14:01innately, um, as they were saying, we are, we are equipped with, with that, with the, um, skills and
14:08also just, uh, ingrained components of what it means to be an artist. And it's time to blowing, blow that
14:14up. I mean, if you think about things going on in Silicon Valley, or even at Google, they're hiring
14:19creative directors at the executive level. Why are they doing that? Uh, there's a, they want the,
14:26the creativity and the artist's mind to be at the table of decision-making. And so that's what I
14:32would say is that what is your definition of, of being an artist and who taught you?
14:39I love that. I love that. So I have a question for each of you to, it's a two part question.
14:46One, who is an artist who inspires you? And then two, is there an artist that we should know about
14:52that we should be on the lookout for who's really on the come up that you feel like should be getting
14:55more shine? I'll start with you. Okay. So, um, the, I look at, and I get the privilege to be
15:05around, um, I think some of the most amazing artists here in the Twin Cities. And so this
15:11is my Rojo Collective plug. If you go on the website, rojocollective.org, all of those artists
15:18inspire me, um, seriously, like every single, every single day. Um, it's why I do the work that
15:25I do. And so, um, there was a little debate recently. I don't know if y'all saw, but, um,
15:33and this is no shade to the artists that did the mural, but there was a very large public mural that
15:38was displayed downtown Minneapolis of our beloved Prince. Um, and it was not a local artist. And there
15:45was a lot of argument that there was not talent enough in our state. And so Rojo and my name got
15:54put in a lot of conversations. Um, and just to shut that all down. Um, so every single person that I
16:02run into that's a creative really, truly does inspire me. And our local artists here that are
16:07doing such amazing things, um, is, is who inspires me on a daily basis. So I'm not gonna let anybody come
16:14into our city and say, we don't have enough local talent to pull that off. Okay. So I agree.
16:24I agree. Um, if you do go to Rojo, R O H O collective, right? Some people spell it wrong. Um,
16:31you will find a lot of artists on there, but to piggyback off of that, I really want to say that
16:36there are some amazing things happening in the black art community here in the twin cities,
16:41as well as the art community. Um, I'm going to name some names. So if you guys don't know,
16:47you need to know Takumba Aiken, who has just received the Guggenheim award, which is one of
16:52the largest, yep. One of the most largest, prestigious awards in art worldwide. Right. He's rubbing elbows
17:02with Guggenheim fellows right now in New York. Um, you know, you have say to Jones, who's an amazing
17:09artist out of St. Paul, right? You have Christopher Harrison, I believe, who's in the crowd right
17:15now, who's doing some amazing work. Chris, are you out there? There he is over there. Yeah.
17:21He's dropping four or five gallery shows a year. He's touring all over the place. He has a show
17:26right now at, at, uh, Suvac over South Minneapolis, um, right off of Lake Street, along with some
17:32other brown artists curated by a brown artist. Um, it's an abstract show. It's amazing. You guys
17:38got to get out there. I'm telling you, there's tons of amazing artists, not just in, um, here in the
17:45twin cities, but like, if you can go even further out into Minnesota, but I'm telling you, one of the
17:52things that we do far too often and far too easy is we jump on the bandwagon of what we don't know.
17:59So we don't know the art community. So we don't know our black art community. And so one of the
18:03things we need to understand is that just because that person lived next door to you doesn't mean
18:09that they don't have some abilities that of the person that lives in Chicago or the, yes, the gates
18:15as we're talking about, right? The brother's bad. He's got work up at the Walker Art Center, but so does
18:20Takumba and Say too, right? And so I'm telling you guys, there are a lot of amazing artists that are right
18:28here among us. And I got work up here in the Weber, Weber, um, library right here. I have
18:35work in the front and the back vestibule that I tag team with Takumba Akin to create. And so there's
18:40tons of, tons of work, tons of stuff all around us. And all you got to do is just pay attention for a
18:46minute, slow down, take a look at this sculpture, look at that painting over there, look at these
18:50pieces over here. There's tons of connections to be made. And there's not a lot of galleries,
18:57but I'm telling you guys, Juxta's making some serious connections. Rojo's making some serious
19:02connections. And there's some other places as well that's trying to connect with the black community.
19:07So you just got to pay attention, tap in, look at the websites, Google some names, look for the people,
19:15ask us questions. Okay. I love it. So, you know, you, you both mentioned this idea that people have
19:25this misconception that for someone to be our art, an artist, they have to come from New York,
19:31Chicago. It is a complete misconception that there are not talented, dynamic, brilliant black artists
19:37here in Minneapolis. How are you combating this horrible misconception that there's not
19:42art to be really reckoned with right here?
19:48All right. So that was the debate. So Kara's right. There was a large debate that happened on,
19:55on social media about the Prince mural that happened downtown. Now there was a, there's a Hispanic artist
20:01out of Florida that did an amazing, he does amazing work. And so no shade to him. He really,
20:06he threw down, he did his thing. But here in the Twin Cities, just like every other demographic that we have
20:13to deal with, whether it's wellness, whether it's finance, whether it's banking, all of these, all these
20:20industries that we deal with, there's an equitable component where we struggle with trying to make sure
20:25that there's a brown, black or brown voice that's being heard or being recognized or being able to step up to
20:31the table to have that opportunity. Doesn't mean we're any less experienced. Doesn't mean we
20:37doesn't have the ability to do the same things. And so combating that is an, is an everyday charge for
20:44us because we have the same ability, some of the same awards, some of the same practices as some of
20:51those other national artists as a Kehinde Wiley or, or Julie Myrtle, who the Walker blew up and has a show
20:58up right now at the Walker Art Center. You know, these artists are amazing. And to their credit, they're
21:03doing amazing things nationally. But we have artists that are doing amazing things nationally here as
21:08well. And so it's an everyday battle. And it's a consistent battle to try to make sure that our artists are
21:15being recognized alongside our national and international artists. And so it's, it's, it's an everyday
21:22battle.
21:25I'll just jump on and say, like, my favorite thing right now, uh, being at Juxta is being, is when people say,
21:32oh, a 16 year old did that? Or like, oh, wait, y'all do more than murals? Um, and it's been really exciting to be
21:43able to say there are young black, amazing people right in the hood, living right in the, at the
21:50epicenter of the North side who are on their phones, iPads, their laptops, Googling, YouTubing, how to do
21:59Procreate and InDesign and the whole Adobe suite and are learning that by themselves. They didn't get
22:05it from a college degree, um, or had four years dedicated to that, that field and that study and
22:11are killing it. And I think it's really important for us to also say that, like, you know, it's not
22:16just about them not having the national or the international coverage. That's a part of it. And
22:23that is definitely a part of how I think, um, socially and culturally black folks have been
22:28shaped. But I think another component in my world is that young people are resilient and figuring it
22:35out. Um, and if they feel like it could potentially evolve into a hustle, um, they're going to, they're
22:42going to go for it. And I think our, our push at Juxta is saying, yep, come on in. Let's, let's figure
22:49that, let's figure this out together. And then let's support you and having those wraparound, um, skills
22:55that ensure that you have success. Cause it's more than just having talent. My dad says all the time,
23:01like there's talent in prison. So it's not about, you know, that there are, you know, talent is only
23:08in certain places. It's everywhere. Um, and there are other systems and things that are pushing
23:12against people being able to have space and recognition and being seen as valuable.
23:19That's beautiful. I don't know if y'all saw, but our youngest audience member was clapping
23:23so hard to what you had to say over there. Oh, she's adorable. So what, I want to know what
23:30questions do you all have for our amazing panel? They were so insightful. So let's give it up
23:35for them. And what questions do you all have?
23:43I'm going to have a question every time. So thank you. Um, uh, I have so many thoughts.
23:50Um, I'm thinking about young people and how, um, they use art to like express themselves and
23:57how, um, how can we, as people who support young people, um, help them keep their art,
24:05like at, at a high quality, right. And not rush through the process just to like make money.
24:10Um, and also be mindful of like our own biases and the things that we've learned. Um, how do you
24:16as mentors, because I get that energy from all of you, uh, keep that in check and have that balance?
24:22Yo, the first thing I say is like, uh, everything that you think is bomb is not. Um, and, and
24:31there'll be young people who are doing, you know, they are on Instagram and they like see
24:38this super fly artist and they're like, wow, I can be an expressionist painter. Like, let
24:44me get some paint and just throw it on a canvas. Um, and I'm going to sell it for $400. And
24:51it's like, and it's going to stay selling for $400 in your basement. Um, and so I think
24:56a part of it is helping them understand how mediums and different forms of mediums, um,
25:03are, are sold. Like there's, there's different, there's a variety of different ways that they
25:07intersect with space. So for example, um, if you're doing a mural, you know, on an outside
25:13wall, that's a different kind of way to engage with space and a different way that you can express.
25:18If you're trying to sell, you know, a specific painting or, you know, a sculpture inside of,
25:23you know, a gallery that's in a, in a private space, it's a different kind of environment.
25:29And so I think the best thing we can do is explaining to them that it's not arts for art's
25:33sake. Um, art shows up in a variety of different ways and also is expressed in a variety of different
25:40ways. And sometimes the thing that you think is your jam, ain't the jam. Um, and that's okay.
25:45Um, but I think it's about, um, what we've all been talking about in terms of, uh, knowing your
25:51people, knowing how their work is selling, being involved in community to see the way that things
25:56are shaping and moving. That's what I would say.
25:58Okay. That's a great question.
26:00Hi, how are you doing? It's Miles Miles. I just had a question for all y'all, you know, about just the
26:15label scene in Minnesota, you know, specifically like rhyme sayers against giants, just anybody who's,
26:20you know, trying to help artists like yourself in just any way and just how you feel about them and
26:25what they're doing for the community. Are they plucking them out and, and trying to put them up to where
26:30they're supposed to be? You know, some of these high caliber artists we're talking about and just
26:33people making high level art from all sorts of ages and backgrounds. So just the labels. I don't know.
26:40What was the first part of your question?
26:42Can you restate that?
26:43Yeah. Damn. I'm sorry. Excuse me. Um, just, you know,
26:47I see, you know, great artists, you know, Slug, Brother Ali. I'm just, you know, older,
26:54what are the labels in Minnesota? You know, we see big labels in some of the cities you're talking
26:58about, you know, no finding who's hot, finding what's out there and, and propping them up. So I
27:03feel like, you know, just looking around and, and at our, our people, our labels, quote unquote,
27:09you know, I just really feel like there's nothing really happening. I just, I don't know.
27:12I don't know. I just want to.
27:20Anyone want to speak?
27:21You know, um, oh, sorry. Go ahead.
27:25Um, what I would, what I would say to that, um, it's kind of like a two part, right? So
27:35one part is an artist and exposure, right? So how are artists able to create a platform and
27:46able to create a name for their self so that they can get that higher level, whether it's
27:52representation, whether, you know, the term like getting plucked out to get recognized on national
27:58levels. Like, what does that look like for artists and how do they go about doing it? So I think one
28:03thing that's a real challenge for artists, which is why, you know, organizations like ours exist is
28:10because if I'm a writer, I'm busy in my room writing. I'm not really trying to create a platform
28:15for myself because that's a whole different skill set. Right. And so as even like as an executive of a
28:22small organization, um, it's like, I can't be all the things. So Rojo's website or Rojo's social media
28:30might suck right now because I'm, you know, doing all of these different parts. And that's a very
28:37real part of, um, just how we as individuals and as creatives like grow in our industry. Right. So
28:45I'm like trying to find the money, trying to find the money for our organization, trying to support our
28:49artists, you know, and all of those things. So social media might take a back hit. So I might not
28:55have the exposure or our artists might not have the exposure. So then how do we build infrastructure
29:03to tear down those silos and to tear down, um, those barriers? And so I think that's the conversation
29:09that we're trying to have and trying to have that together. And then what can we build, um, to put in
29:16place so then we can break all that down, you know? And I, I think that's what we're doing. And then just to
29:21also note that Rojo is not just for visual artists. Um, we have artists of, of all, we have dancers,
29:30we have singers, we have comedians, um, we have DJs that all are a part of, um, our, our collective.
29:39So really it's just, how do we help? How do we help us all? How do we help us as entrepreneurs? How do we
29:46help us as creatives, um, to get to those higher level platforms to be seen? I agree. I think,
29:54you know, speaking directly to what you're talking about rhyme sayers and, and some of the historical
29:59context in the last 30 years, these guys have worked very hard to build a national platform
30:04and they have done a really great job. They've done a really great job, but I'm sure at least one
30:10third of this population still probably haven't heard of the rhyme sayers, right? But they're national,
30:15right? And so it's an underground, um, still considered an underground label. I don't know why,
30:21but they're amazing. And so that is everything to do with access and opportunity. It's a struggle
30:30that we've dealt with as a community consistently. It's a byline. However, like we have to continue to
30:38connect with one another. We have to continue to Google one another. We got to like go on our hashtag,
30:44go on, you know, Juxtaposition's website, go on the Rojo Collective's website, connect with us.
30:50We have a mailing list. We'll make sure that you're connected with us for sure. You know,
30:56there's opportunities that we're presenting. There's access that we're presenting to those artists and to
31:03those young artists that we're building and supporting in the process. So that's, that's the byline that I'm
31:09going to leave you with because I think that building that connection and opportunity has to
31:14be incumbent upon the individual. And so we have to do some work as ourselves as a buyer, as a,
31:20as a viewer, as a person that's walking into wanting to be a part of the artist's work.
31:25That is a great place to leave it. Y'all give it up for our panel, the last panel of the day.
31:34You all have been amazing. Thank you so much for hanging out with me. Thank you for watching
31:37on the live stream. I'm Bridget Todd. Thank you so much for being here. Enjoy the rest of your day.
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