- 14 hours ago
SOLUTION SESSIONS JOBURG: A global conversation designed to address the nuance and spectrum of gender and the binary within Blackness.
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00:00:00Hello Afropunk fam. I'm Bridget Todd and I'm so excited to be connecting with all of you today.
00:00:16I'm joining you from the capital of the United States, Washington DC. And I want to know first
00:00:21of all, where is everyone tuning in from? You can use the chat to let us know and consider
00:00:25turning on your camera so we can see all of your beautiful faces. Today we're having a live
00:00:30community conversation all about gender. How does the gender binary inflict harm on black bodies,
00:00:35even within our safe spaces? And what does true black gender liberation look like? We have a
00:00:40wonderful panel joining us today, so let's get to know them. I want to start with you, Tommy. Please
00:00:45introduce yourself. My name is Tommy Dish and I'm from South Africa, Johannesburg. I'm an activist,
00:00:52the founder of the Tommy Dish Foundation and the Feather Awards in South Africa. Yeah, so I'm here.
00:00:59I'm a lover of all things black, proud, amazing, and everything else that is a conversation about
00:01:06change in the world. I love it. Up next, David, please introduce yourself.
00:01:14Go on, I'm good people. Peace, peace. I am Skyping in from the People's Republic of Harlem. I'm the
00:01:19Executive Director of the National Black Justice Coalition. We are the nation's only civil rights
00:01:24organization, both intentionally and unapologetically sitting at the intersections
00:01:28of racial equity and LGBTQIA plus equality. Super excited to be in community with my good people
00:01:34here on today. Beautiful. Tokozani, beat face. Introduce yourself.
00:01:40Hi, everybody. My name is Tokozani Ndaba and I'm tuning in from Johannesburg, South Africa. I work with
00:01:49the Theta Nelo Foundation, which is an organization that focuses on dismantling gender-based violence and
00:01:54working with young women and girls in a marginalized community. And I'm so honored to be part of this
00:02:00platform. Thank you for being here. And last, but certainly not least, Hunter.
00:02:05Hunter. Hey, y'all. I'm Hunter Shackelford. My pronouns are she, her, they, them. I am a non-binary
00:02:15shapeshifter, cultural artist, and fat activist. I'm based in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm from Richmond,
00:02:21Virginia. We're up in the South all day. And yeah, just really here to support the community and really
00:02:29excited to be here. Beautiful. The first question I have for everyone, you know, backstage in our
00:02:36little virtual green room, our conversations were joyful. They were excited. They were so full of Black
00:02:43joy. I want to do a little bit of a curveball question and just ask when we have these kinds of
00:02:48conversations about Black identity and Black gender liberation, how can we make sure these
00:02:53conversations are always rooted in Black joy and really center, you know, the full spectrum of
00:02:59Black queer futures? You know, I think oftentimes we have these conversations and we forget about joy.
00:03:06We forget about being able to imagine our beautiful future. So I want to ask, Tommy, we'll start with
00:03:13you. How do we make sure these conversations are rooted in Black joy?
00:03:16I honestly think that, you know, historically, we were also told never to celebrate our Blackness. And what
00:03:25we do as activists of being Black people and fabulous is to put out the energy there that Black is
00:03:33greatness. Black is affirmed. Blackness is affirmed. Black is powerful. Black is empowering as an existence.
00:03:43And I think for me, more than anything, it just feels great to be able to have a voice, sitting all here and all up in
00:03:52my melon and being affirmed and having these conversations. We're here. We're having this session now and we're
00:03:58discussing Blackness and it's mainly to empower. So platforms like this, you know, allow us to be able to be to to become
00:04:06Black and to know that we are affirmed in society.
00:04:07I love it. What else do we think? Does anyone have any? I just want to make sure this conversation is
00:04:14rooted in our our future and not just our past. So I wanted to start that way. I also want to ask, what are
00:04:22some unlearnings? What kind of things do we think that Black folks need to unlearn about the gender
00:04:27binary? Tokazani, this is a question for you. What do you think Black folks need to unlearn about the
00:04:32gender binary? I just think that for me, first of all, gender is fluid. Gender is a social construct.
00:04:44It's just like race. You know, you cannot just put people in boxings and say that because
00:04:50you're supposed to live a certain way because you were born with a particular sex. So now we're going
00:04:59to put you under this gender and we expect you to behave and act and leave this gender. But that
00:05:05doesn't make sense because we've seen what race has done. We need to dismantle race as it is for now.
00:05:12And then we're moving on to gender. People are starting to express themselves. They have different
00:05:18self-expression, self-articulation. And then gender, it limits. It limits people because now this
00:05:26construction is putting you in this box to say that you are this gender. But when people think
00:05:32out of the gender binary, it's thinking that actually Pearson can be who they are without putting them
00:05:38into that box, labeling and saying, hey, lady, I was just educating somebody and I should to say that
00:05:44we cannot keep boxing people. So when we talk about gender binaries, we have to exclude and take out,
00:05:51like, I don't know how to put it for somebody to understand. For example, if I talk about my gender
00:05:58is black, I would say that I enter every space, right, with resilience and bold and beauty and
00:06:06everything that I have because I know that because of my gender, I'm already like put on a certain
00:06:13box because now I need to belong and look a certain way. Then I rock in there, I look different than what
00:06:21I'm expected to look than the gender that is assigned towards me or whether it was birth or whatever
00:06:27way. Immediately, they start saying things, oh, no, you shouldn't be this way, you are wrong and
00:06:32whatever. But that on its own, it's got nothing to do with how somebody needs to live their life.
00:06:39I think I'm moving on to something else. But what I wanted to say is that people need to stop
00:06:46putting gender into boxes because gender and race are fluid and it's oppressive and it's what has
00:06:53pushed people into so many ways and lives to do things that are not supposed to be done to other
00:06:58people just because of this social construct that we've made and built to oppress and divide people
00:07:05in a certain way. And there's a tool of oppression. So we're taking something that the colonizers brought
00:07:10to us or whatever it is that suited them to bring into here and say that people should live a certain
00:07:16way. People should be left who they are and live the way they want. And gender has nothing to do with
00:07:23anything. If culture can be fluid, gender can be fluid. We need to deconstruct gender, race, decolonize
00:07:28everything. Bridget, can I co-sign that? Please, of course, jump in. Yeah, so I want to, I agree with
00:07:34everything that Tokozani said and would offer three additional things to supplement that at the risk of
00:07:39being pure snickety. The first is that we should all remember that gender is assigned at birth.
00:07:44It is not natural. It is not innate. It is a decision that doctors make based on educated guesses.
00:07:52The second thing is we should allow for the full expansiveness of how people show up in the world.
00:07:57I think too often people forget that in elementary school, we learned that an X chromosome meets an X
00:08:01chromosome and they make a girl an X chromosome meets a Y chromosome and it makes a boy. There are at
00:08:06these six other permutations of chromosomal possibilities that result of people showing up in ways that are
00:08:12inconsistent with that very narrow understanding of gender. And so we have to be mindful of how, as Tokozani
00:08:18said, these things have been socially constructed over time to support white supremacy. Black feminist
00:08:24folks like Patricia Hill Collins and Kimberly Crenshaw talk about this matrix of domination. There are signs, systems,
00:08:31and symbols that allow white supremacy and whiteness to be all encompassing and invisible at the same
00:08:37time. And one of the ways that white supremacy works is through these social constructs like gender,
00:08:41which purport that there are these expectations for how people show up in the world. And if we can
00:08:46embrace where young people in the United States are, more than half of the students in high school
00:08:51identifies anything other than strictly heterosexual. To be clear, there is no gay agenda. If somebody has seen
00:08:56the gay agenda, just send me the clip notes, right? Because I'm just not trying to reinvent the wheel.
00:09:01But this is young people saying that these binaries, these boxes that have been constructed as a tool of
00:09:05white supremacy don't work for them. And so I want us all to celebrate making space for every member of
00:09:11our community. I spend too much time and energy talking to Black folks, in particular in the United
00:09:16States, who sometimes feel that homosexuality or queerness is a tool of white folks and colonization.
00:09:22And I remind folks all the time, there's an author, Somei Sonbufu, who talks about the fact that on
00:09:26the continent of Africa, the terms gay and lesbian didn't exist, but the term gatekeeper did. And so
00:09:32this is, again, a reminder that as long as there have been Black people, there have been Black queer,
00:09:36trans, non-binary people, even before the terms existed. And one way for us to go back to your
00:09:41first question, Bridget, to celebrate joy and to have that at our center is to make space for all of
00:09:45us to show up and show out and otherwise be free. Exactly. And also gender binary system was created to
00:09:52enforce patriarchy systems and the norms of patriarchy. And it shows, just like David says,
00:09:57it's all a system, like I said, to oppress and divide. And when you talk about gender, you know
00:10:03that lesbian women are excluded within feminist movements just because of what you're supposed to
00:10:11look like with the gender. You don't look the gender that you're assigned to or the gender that is
00:10:15constructed by the society. And you're supposed to look that way just because I'm a lesbian or I'm
00:10:20choose to look a certain way, then already I'm shift on the side within the feminist movement,
00:10:26within the Black spaces, the way you feel you need to be protected and accepted. You still don't,
00:10:32just because of gender. Absolutely. Hunter, I wonder, as someone who works in Black liberation spaces,
00:10:39you know, how do you see Black liberation and gender being linked? In what ways are these two things
00:10:45related? Yeah. So they're inherently related because if we're talking about Black liberation,
00:10:52then we're talking about undoing all of the systems that we've inherited and believe that
00:10:57are natural or are one-dimensionally belonging to us. And I think when we're talking about gender,
00:11:04I mean, when we think about, even if we can just reflect back in a time when segregation
00:11:08was present, right? Like we were talking about colored as an entire like deemed identity and not
00:11:16based on gender, right? It was really just about othering Blackness. So Blackness has always been
00:11:22ungendered and gendered depending on the gaze of non-Blackness. So in order for us to get free,
00:11:29when we're talking about Black liberation, there is no separation of talking about gender and Blackness,
00:11:33but often there are a lot of struggles in how us as a Black community can find our way to our truths
00:11:40when it's been so designed for us to not be in access to it. So when we're together, I mean,
00:11:46often when we want to lean into our joy, like we often have to lean into our hurt. We often have to
00:11:51lean into the things that we have to unlearn with each other that we've inherited because we wanted to
00:11:56survive, right? And many of us have inherited these systems to survive and have performed them so
00:12:02deeply that it has shifted our reality for what expansiveness can look like in our being.
00:12:09There's so many of us who feel like we have to perform gender in order to get money, in order to
00:12:14get access, in order to get free, right? Because freedom is told to us that it's going to be
00:12:19capitalistic, that it's going to be in a check, that it's going to be chosen by whatever white person
00:12:23decides that you're worthy, right? And that comes with a performance, that comes with shrinking
00:12:28yourself, that comes with shrinking Blackness. And so in order for us to like really truly
00:12:33address Black liberation, we can never separate that conversation from gender. And it also means
00:12:39having really difficult conversations for how gender really plays out in terms of how gender
00:12:44violence happens when it happens from the state and also too how the state also too designs for
00:12:50inter-community violence to happen amongst us as well and how gender violence plays out amongst us where
00:12:55we feel like we're actually embodying gender when we harm other people. And that, again, is an
00:13:00inheritance of white supremacy.
00:13:03I also, I kind of feel like we also can't, you know, necessarily discuss Black liberation without
00:13:09getting into the discussion around culture and religion and all these other constructs that have
00:13:14been there. Because for the longest of time, I was having a conversation earlier with Tomazana. I was
00:13:19like, you know, I think, and you were asking earlier about Black joy. And I'm like, I think Black
00:13:24on Black violence is actually a thing that we have to unlearn. So you asked the question around
00:13:29unlearning. And I'm like, there's so many constructs that have been there for us as Black people where
00:13:34religion told us who we were and who we weren't. And culture that was created by those groups told us
00:13:41who we were and how we could exist. And so when David talks about showing up in a space where we can be as
00:13:47and when it feels right to us and represent that kind of revelation, we have to go back to talking
00:13:52about what that looks like and interrogate where religion comes in, where culture comes in, what's
00:13:59been taught to us as a Black community. Because we can't talk about, you know, how systemic it has
00:14:06been, that exclusion, the politics of exclusion, when it comes to like race and other things.
00:14:13We have to go back to talking about what we learned as Black people. Now we're driving
00:14:21campaigns and movements like Black Lives Matter. But, you know, people will say to you Black Lives
00:14:27Matter. And it's okay when we're talking about a white person that's attacking a Black person, but
00:14:32we don't address it when it's another Black person attacking a trans person, or a gay man,
00:14:37a Black gay man, or a Black lesbian woman. So you can't, we can't, you know, for, I always
00:14:46feel like we always have to look within as well, as Black people, because we can't be allergic
00:14:52to our own, you know, discomforts. That's what's created, you know, the problems that we have.
00:14:58And if we must celebrate the excellence that Black is, and showing up, then we need to go
00:15:05into those kind of spaces, and have those kind of conversations.
00:15:09Yeah, you brought up a good point about culture. And this is a question for everybody, but
00:15:13I'm really curious, Hunter and Tokuzani, you know, everybody on the panel has done some kind
00:15:18of culture work. I know cultural strategy, or working with theater and youth. What way do you
00:15:25think that culture, and the arts, and writing, how, in what way is that related to Black liberation,
00:15:31being in that so many folks on the panel have a grounding in that kind of work?
00:15:36Well, Bridget, I would say that, first of all, culture is very oppressive. Most especially,
00:15:42I would say, for me, as a person who identifies a woman, it's oppressive to women. I don't know how
00:15:50men receive it, because in my culture, it serves men. And culture seems to be man-made, and religion
00:15:57is man-made. So it's there to shift women and make women to feel less. So culture plays a role
00:16:04in perpetuating and fuel patriarchy, and how men should behave. And also, it supports men, because
00:16:11all these patriarchal things are rooted into culture, just as I was saying, and religion.
00:16:17So the first thing that I want to say is that when we can look at culture and say culture is fluid,
00:16:24because in my culture, we used to do those things, but now we don't do, for example, in the Zulu
00:16:30culture, or in the South African context, I don't know in other places, there is a law now where there's
00:16:36going to be a bright price when a woman's going to make. Now, in this day and age, they don't give cows,
00:16:41and whatever, because culture is fluid and things change. Why can't they think that about gender as the
00:16:47same thing? Do you know what I mean? Because if culture can be that, gender should be fluid enough
00:16:52for people to be able to express themselves and articulate themselves, and it should move within
00:16:57and with the people. As more, we're getting more awakening, and we're getting more, like Tammy was
00:17:02saying, that it's all about going back into self, because we were told who we are, we never had to
00:17:07find out. Now we're finding out ourself, and we're entering spaces like this, where they actually
00:17:12encourages us to be who we are, and celebrate our blackness, and love ourselves, and show up being
00:17:17who I am, and be like, I'm black, and I love myself, and I'm cute as a lesbian, there's nothing wrong with
00:17:22me. But now culture puts that aside, and still oppresses, and say that being gay, or being lesbian,
00:17:29is an African, is a sin. So it's either we scratch culture all together, or we move with the culture,
00:17:34and understand that fluidity, not just on certain things and traditional things. And also, we can use
00:17:40culture also as a tool, you know, to dismantle patriarchy, to fight gender-based violence,
00:17:48which is a big elephant in our room right now in South Africa, that we're facing the worst pandemic
00:17:56around gender-based violence. And now culture can be used, instead of perpetuating and fueling,
00:18:02but culture can be used to bring in men to say culturally, this is not how it used to be done,
00:18:07this is not. The violence, the killing of women, it's got nothing to do with culture. So how do we
00:18:12use indigenous ways that were used before, now as a tool to teach? But also going back to what you
00:18:20said about how art can play a role, art is one of the most powerful tool I know, or platform we can
00:18:26use to change the world, and talk about things. Because art, we can be real, and playful, and take to
00:18:32fantasy and back into reality at the same time. And people need to move out and come back in, and also
00:18:39find themselves within. And art, it could be educational, at the same time, it raises awareness.
00:18:45Like what we're doing now, we're using art, culture, and all forms to raise awareness on different
00:18:50things. But at the same time, we're celebrating each other and ourselves from all over. And art also bring
00:18:57people together like he has brought, it has brought people from all over the world together, and we're
00:19:02able to converse and talk about these issues and put them on the platform. So let's continue using
00:19:07art as one of the tool. And we change culture and use culture as a tool, not as a tool to oppress
00:19:13and fuel patriarchy. I don't know how Hunter can take from there.
00:19:19Hunter, do you have anything to add?
00:19:20Yeah, no. Well, first of all, I mean, do I ever have anything to add to what Tokuzani has to say?
00:19:26Because it was amazing. But yeah, just to just a couple of, you know, a little seasoning. I think,
00:19:34I think that, you know, just to affirm the piece around like culture being used as a tool, but also
00:19:38to how culture is used as a way to dominate, right? Like, I mean, it's, it's very like, it's such a
00:19:43both and experience, where it's just, you know, that the dominant culture that does exist, especially
00:19:48when we're talking about intercommunity wise, is that it's very like dominated by this narrative
00:19:53of patriarchy and not wanting to divest from the gender binary and not wanting to divest from like
00:19:58cis hetero, like cis hetero patriarchy at all. So I think that, but just to like the piece around
00:20:05art that it's like, yeah, like we actually are shifting so many narratives and actually creating
00:20:10our own culture and deepening the cultures that we've created amongst queer and trans and just other
00:20:16black people, um, like every day, right? I think that we are, you know, creating stories, um, we're
00:20:23uplifting our own narratives, um, and really pushing those to the forefront to again reassert that we
00:20:28exist because so much of dominant culture, um, even when it is intercommunity, um, related, right? Like
00:20:34even when we're amongst black people and it's other black people who are actually like harming and
00:20:39embracing us, um, we're challenging the reality that, that we've always existed, right? This isn't
00:20:45new. Like it isn't new. And just like David was saying earlier, right? Like there's, there's an
00:20:49entire history of us always existing. And we're going to keep reminding you of that, but also too,
00:20:54we're going to do that to save each other. Um, because we know that like that erasure, um,
00:20:59feeling that loneliness, like within blackness is very hard. Like it is so, um, disconnecting when
00:21:05like the entire world is designed to already kill you. And then you already have people who
00:21:09are so deeply traumatized and, um, and, and, and almost, uh, reinventing that oppression
00:21:15in different ways, um, in our interpersonal relationships, where it makes us feel like
00:21:20we are lonely, right? And art can really change that community changes that and community in and
00:21:24of itself is an art. Um, how we build together, how we talk with each other, um, how we love on each
00:21:30other is an art. Um, it is a strategy, um, and it's not, and it's intention, right? And I
00:21:35think that that alone, um, can change worlds for us. It can also save so many black,
00:21:40queer and trans people who deserve to be affirmed and loved all the time.
00:21:43Yep. I see all the time. I think, you know, um, I, I, myself, I'm a platform for me to be
00:21:53artistic. So I walk around, Tokzani knows, I walk around in tutus and I go into various spaces,
00:21:58um, um, in, in, in, in tutus that are bright, colorful and dresses just to be able to,
00:22:04to, to, to become a, you know, a platform because I'm artistic in my existence.
00:22:09But also what I love about this is, is how we're able to document it because we speak
00:22:16about it as an indigenous thing. We've got the history, we've got the books, we know all
00:22:19of these things that have existed in the past and we never get to a point where we actually
00:22:23unpack it. But now the world we're living in that David was speaking about is a non-binary world that
00:22:28that there's a generation of humans who we must think about when we do what we do now,
00:22:33that's going to live 10 years from now, 20 years from now, who need to know that they can reference
00:22:39something and they'll find something that is artistic, that is there, that is documented by
00:22:44this generation that kind of shaped that world, um, for them. So I think, um, you know, I was in a
00:22:50conversation with a different group and I was saying to them, it's become so important for us
00:22:56to, to make sure that everything that we do, we document and archive. We, we, as, as, as, as a
00:23:05generation can do that. And, you know, a lot of systems have made it seem like we don't have enough
00:23:11access to enough information and we've never been able to archive black history and black excellence
00:23:16and celebrate it in ways that it must. But now we, now we can. Now we're here.
00:23:22I love that. That's so much, so much of Hunter's work I feel relates to that, you know, but like
00:23:29archiving our experience and making sure that when we talk about things like data and storytelling and
00:23:34archival that our voices are really included. I just, I just love that you've lifted that up.
00:23:39Um, and I, I see all of you all doing that work in different ways and in the, in the ways that you
00:23:43work. Um, another question that I have is that so many of you, you all work with youth. What role do
00:23:50you think youth plays in this? Why do you think it's important to be doing the things that you're
00:23:55doing in communities that are younger on college campuses with young folks? Why has that been so
00:24:00integral to the work that you all do? I'll jump in. I am, uh, I'm an educator. Um, I, before leading the
00:24:08work of the national black justice coalition, I led a white house initiative on educational
00:24:12excellence for African-Americans for still my president, Barack Hussein Obama, who happens to
00:24:16be married to one of the smartest people I've ever met. Still my first lady, Michelle Levine,
00:24:20Robinson Obama. Um, and I started my career teaching elementary school, kindergarten and third grade.
00:24:25And there are a couple of things that I know. One is that I've never met a single child who asked to be
00:24:29born in the spirit of Asa Hilliard, a sociologist whose footsteps I follow in. I've never met a black
00:24:35child in particular who is not a genius. There's no secret to how we support them. We first acknowledge
00:24:41them as human. And second, we support them with love. And so much of my work is grounded in the
00:24:46understanding that too many people, black, white, otherwise do not see black children,
00:24:51black babies as deserving of love. And so it is important for us to honor that we've invited them
00:24:58into this space and we've created the problems that they otherwise have to deal with. And so we are
00:25:03obligated to support them, to listen and to learn how we can meet them with love.
00:25:08And so at every step of my career, it is incredibly important for me to create space for young people
00:25:14who are often already engineering solutions to the problems that they see in their families,
00:25:18their communities, and in their country. In this particular moment in this global movement for
00:25:22black lives, I remain concerned about the toll that this is taking on our babies. We should be clear
00:25:28that in the United States, black youth, the suicide rate for black children has doubled
00:25:34in the last two decades. It's decreased for every other group of children,
00:25:37with the exception of black kids. And so when we think about the consequences of isolation,
00:25:41what it means to be in schools where you might have to not only deal with the consequences of
00:25:45anti-blackness, but people who are also homophobic, transphobic, and biphobic,
00:25:49often means that our babies are without the kinds of supports that they need in order to develop,
00:25:54and have a sense of self, and make sense of who they are and how they're going to move through
00:25:58the world around them. And so this is a really long way of me offering a plea, really a beseechment
00:26:03to anyone who cares and is compassionate to understand that we are obligated to do this work for our babies.
00:26:11And also, you know, when you are black and you are working in marginalized communities,
00:26:22so if you're black and you're already surrounded by poverty and the neglect and all the marginalization
00:26:28that you see around you, and there's nothing that encourages you to be who you are, because at that
00:26:34age also you're trying to find yourself, you're struggling with identity and your voice, and the
00:26:39world already excludes you as a black child because of your body. Do you understand? So how do we,
00:26:45as black people, find ways of encouraging black youth and go into finding them and say,
00:26:51youth is too much. It's so hard to work with youth because they're going through their
00:26:54teenagers, their puberty and whatever. That's the time when we need to be there and support them
00:27:00and help them and help them find their voices. How do we facilitate? How do we help them
00:27:06find themselves, who they are? Because all we know as black people, when we've grown at my age,
00:27:11all I know is that I have to teach white people not to be racist. I have to teach
00:27:18human beings to accept me as a gay woman because to say that, no, you must learn about homosexuality.
00:27:25Why? Why are people not taking it up for themselves to say, let me educate myself as a white person,
00:27:31to know that if I say this is offensive, let me educate myself as a straight so-called whatever
00:27:39I am person to say that, if I say this is offensive to someone, when will I ever be and say,
00:27:45I'm a black feminist, but I understand that trans women suffer as women. I'm a black feminist,
00:27:51but I understand that lesbian women suffer as women. But if we teach our kids at a young age,
00:27:57in Isisulu we say, in Isisulu we say, Zibandu isemapupu, you catch them while they are young,
00:28:04because it's hard to teach and change mindset when they are older. So that's when working with youth
00:28:09is so fruitful when you see the change and you can see their mind are so good to grasp and learn.
00:28:15And you think, when you see that happening and the fruits, you think, yeah, we are shaping the future.
00:28:21We can only shape the future through the youth, because they're old. We're too old, we're getting out.
00:28:26But now we're going to have the youth that is not shaped because nobody want to work with the youth
00:28:29because they're a headache. But we can't say we are a headache because we want to change our society,
00:28:34we want to change our community. And that's going to happen with us changing the youth and catching them
00:28:39while they're young. And the other thing, Bridget, that I wanted to touch on is that, you know,
00:28:43when you talk about gender and black bodies, historically, we come from where black bodies were sold
00:28:50and raped as seen as objects. That doesn't mean it's not happening now in the world. The youth,
00:28:55what they see on television, how women are perceived, everything, it's still there. It's still like
00:29:01just different ways of black bodies are served and pushing the forefront as used as tools for whatever
00:29:07that serves, whether men for patriarchy, whether white people, because it's good for them, black bodies
00:29:17is used for that. But now how do we change the youth mindset to say that you're worth it, you're of value?
00:29:22How do you see yourself of value and love and respect yourself and accept yourself as who you are?
00:29:28And having a 12-year-old who can express herself, whether their gender or the way they look and the way they are,
00:29:35and speak articulately and be happy and be joyful, like Tammy and Bridget were saying, that you have to
00:29:40embrace our blackness and joy. So we need to teach them while they're young to keep that so that when they
00:29:46get to this platform, it's a different conversation, it's a different narrative than what we're having now.
00:29:51I mean, I think young people, I don't know, I don't just work with young people, I actually live with
00:29:57them, you know, in the house. I mean, it's become a thing, I've even had to go, I've gone and pitched
00:30:04a show at one of our national broadcasters because I was also learning as a queer person, I was learning
00:30:10the culture of these young ones around me and they've taught me so much. But what I do definitely
00:30:18know about young people is that there is that curiosity that's there. And there's an energy
00:30:23that exists within young people that needs to be channeled properly. And they're enthusiastic
00:30:29and they want to know more, they want to do more. So I think if we can find ways to channel that energy
00:30:37into something that produces something very empowering, as opposed to us, you know, I think
00:30:44a lot of times we would like to, we like to look at what history did to us, what it didn't do to us.
00:30:50We're not changing the narrative a lot for a lot of our young ones. So in South Africa, you know,
00:30:56like I have lots of conversations with young people and the conversations often are, why do we reference
00:31:02what happened with apartheid and why are we living in the past? Why are we not looking at what's happening
00:31:07right now and finding new ways to change the narrative? And that's why I find myself in the
00:31:12space that I work in. It's like looking at what's available here now and say, it can look better.
00:31:18We can write our own history and we can change all of that. So, so it's so important for us to not,
00:31:26you know, silence the voices of young people. You know, when you're in our community,
00:31:32as black people, language also became a problem and language was a big thing. So the people who,
00:31:38who are, and I'm talking from like a South African person and an African person, there are people
00:31:43who believe that, you know, there were, there were never words that described what gay or lesbian,
00:31:49bisexual, transgender, intersex people were in our own African languages, but they're there.
00:31:55There are people who are also, who, who, who insist on making sure that because you want to get
00:32:01yourself into a space where society understands our community better, then let's find new words.
00:32:06But those words are there. You know, let's start engaging in those new words. I watched an interview
00:32:12with David earlier on, and he was talking about how we, we, we, we have to literally start speaking
00:32:19our language and speak it into everyday life. And it must be a lived experience. So people don't
00:32:25necessarily unlearn, but they learn a new way of being, you know, a new culture. We develop that
00:32:33new culture. So we have to, we have to go and start being deliberate about any kind of development that
00:32:40we're in, you know, and Tomozani speaks about working with a disadvantaged group of people. And, and I
00:32:47think that's an experience for all queer people around. And funny, somebody said to me, you know, I feel like
00:32:53the way a lot of us felt during the pandemic and, and, and lockdown is pretty much how all queer
00:33:00people feel all the time, isolate, because they are not heard and they are not seen and they aren't.
00:33:06And I think a lot of times, all we want is the, the platform for us to be able to express ourselves.
00:33:12We want somebody to hear what we've got to say without saying, oh, no, this is a place where adults
00:33:18speak. This is, there's no language that understands that. There's no culture that understands that.
00:33:23Without shutting us out. So that becomes, you have to be deliberate. And there's a new kind of
00:33:28awakening. You know, these young ones now, these young ones now are like, no, they like, no,
00:33:35it's like, hell no.
00:33:40No, I'm checking out of this because I, and it means that they understand fundamentally that
00:33:46there's an injustice that's happening to me. I don't have to wait for my family member,
00:33:52my friend, anybody else around me to tell me that I don't feel okay with this.
00:33:58Exactly.
00:33:58You know what I pray for. And what I hope for is that I'm channeled or directed to people who
00:34:05will validate my position at that point and make sure that I don't feel like I'm crazy.
00:34:10You're talking about like the increase that the teenage suicide rate has increased, right?
00:34:17South Africa doesn't have like stats on what happens in the queer space. There isn't enough
00:34:23research that can tell you that, you know, it's more queer people who have had suicidal ideations.
00:34:29It's all have committed suicide even, but the world at large knows that our teens are going through a lot.
00:34:38Young people navigating through life where from the age of early child development that you speak about,
00:34:45you've been told who you are and who you aren't until you feel like you can buy yourself
00:34:50like freedom when you're 18 and you go to college or you get out of home and whatnot. And then it's like,
00:34:55oh, shite. I don't identify with that person. This is who I am. But you can't erase that because
00:35:03you're a sum total of everything that's happened to you. Now you have to get into ways of understanding
00:35:09yourself. I just feel like it's almost like reprogramming, but they're willing. They're
00:35:15willing. We're here. How do we nurture that?
00:35:18And I just got chills as you were describing that. One, I'm just thankful for this platform. This is
00:35:25why Afropunk is so necessary. It's important to provide windows and mirrors for young people so
00:35:30they can see themselves or parts of themselves and people like us, right? That's first and foremost.
00:35:35The second thing is I celebrate everything that was said. I appreciate us making global connections.
00:35:40And let's not take for granted that the average life expectancy for a Black trans woman in the United
00:35:44States is around 30 years of age, right? There's still a lot of debate. We still are trying to
00:35:49collect data. But too often, members of our community don't even get to the point where they
00:35:55can get that ticket to freedom or to the Willy Wonka chocolate factory or whatever analogy works in this
00:36:00moment. And we should be mindful of that and think about doing work early so that our babies have the
00:36:05opportunity to thrive. I also want to highlight that I appreciated Tokozani's point around language.
00:36:11And while we don't have access to the same language, I believe that Frederick Douglass offered
00:36:16a similar sentiment decades ago when he said it's easier to build strong men than to repair broken
00:36:21children, right? And I would say that about people. He wasn't thinking about gender as expansively as he
00:36:26otherwise could have. But we have that opportunity now. The last thing I'll say is this. Tokozani talked about
00:36:32teaching white people. And to be clear, that is a big part of my work. And I resent that white people
00:36:40feel stuck when it comes to how not to be a white supremacist or how not to be in practice
00:36:48anti-blackness. I don't understand it because I don't believe black people were consulted when
00:36:53white folks came up with the transatlantic slave trade. I don't believe that black people were
00:36:56consulted when the founding farmers and the framers in the United States or where the colonies
00:37:01before became the United States said, let's count three-fifths of black people when it's politically
00:37:06expedient for us. And so I'm a fundamental believer that white folks need to be held accountable
00:37:10for doing work on their own so that we can spend time dealing with ourselves, helping our community
00:37:17unlearn, and find ways to love themselves in spite of the lies that white supremacy and whiteness tells us.
00:37:23And just as heterosexual people, they need to do the work. We're tired of educating.
00:37:28I absolutely don't mind. I don't mind. I'm a different kind of a... I don't mind because
00:37:35I know that there are lots of people who complain about the labor of being able to teach people
00:37:40how to not be themselves, but I don't mind. My heart is open to the idea of... I think I'm a little
00:37:48bit softer than David and Tokuzani. We don't stand up your way.
00:37:52No, I'm just like, I'm just like, Han, Han, let's get into the room. There's no need for us to be
00:37:59hostile. And let me just quickly teach you. Let me show you what you're doing. It's the same way I feel
00:38:04about black people as well. You know, I feel like even within ourselves, you have to get to a point
00:38:10where you're like, hey, Han, what you just said was wrong, you know, and you don't get a pass because
00:38:16you're black. You know? Hunter, what are you... Well, everybody has weighed in on this question
00:38:23about educating. I have to ask, I mean, we have these different perspectives. Where do you fit in?
00:38:30I think it's important for us to have them all. Go for it, Hunter. I'm sorry. I'll step back.
00:38:33No, go, go, go, go, go. Go back. Nope, nope. I insist, please. I don't, um, I don't, I don't revere or
00:38:40consider white people, um, at all. Um, but that's, and I think that I think, and, but I,
00:38:48but I honor the spectrum that blackness is not a monolith. So I feel like, you know, I think the
00:38:53issue that comes in when I feel like I say, like, I'm completely divested from non-black people.
00:38:58I will not teach a non-black person. I don't believe that it's actually possible. And I just,
00:39:02in my lifetime, I don't think it's possible for you to unlearn the things that my, that black people are
00:39:08still suffering for, for 400 plus years, right? So what does it look like for me to even spend
00:39:13even five minutes with you out of maybe the 70 years that I might have, might not, because I'm
00:39:19black. So we don't know, right? Like left to actually live my life. We don't know. So I'm not
00:39:25going to spend my time doing that when it's like, babes, I would really rather spend time with black
00:39:29people and really unlearn our shit together instead of me doing that when I feel like that is really,
00:39:34truly a lost cause for me. But what I want to honor is that I think what gets really difficult
00:39:40when we are like in shared spaces, when we all have different perspectives of what it means to
00:39:44get free and what it means to create like more safety, which can look like teaching, right? Which
00:39:48can look like offering resources. I think it gets harder when like we start kind of, I don't want to
00:39:54use the term police, but when we kind of, when, when we just, we can't understand that like everybody
00:39:59has a different like mechanism of how they want to survive this world. And I would never look at
00:40:04another black person and be like, wow, you want to talk to white people? Yikes. Like,
00:40:07that's not my ministry and do your thing if that's what you want to do. But you know, but don't,
00:40:12but don't get mad at me that it's not my ministry neither. Right? Like, I feel like that becomes
00:40:17sometimes like a struggle, especially cause I really, I mean, I'm sure we all have different
00:40:22perspectives on this, but I'm, I'm mostly around black people. So I also am not in like a narrative
00:40:26where like, I'm not in a space where I have to even really deal with non black people if I really don't
00:40:30want to. And I feel like that in it's in itself, I don't think it's a privilege, but it is a certain
00:40:35type of access that everybody does not have. So I do not have like the experience of feeling like
00:40:40I have to always engage with a non black person and have to decide, am I going to fight you? Or am I
00:40:44going to give you a little article real quick and be like, maybe like, maybe don't use the ER or the A
00:40:52because you don't get rocked. But you know what I'm saying? But also too, I might, you know,
00:40:56like, I don't know if this is a space for me to really defend myself. So all that to say that
00:41:00it depends on your space. It depends on your community. It depends on what support you get,
00:41:05because especially if you are very like divested from non black people, there are black people who
00:41:10will divest from you because they literally believe that you not like wanting to build a
00:41:16bridge with non black people means that you're not really for liberation. So I think that that type
00:41:20of struggle becomes really hard, but I want to say that I honor like how all of y'all show up
00:41:26in your blackness and what it looks like for your wellness and what it means to build safety.
00:41:31And just please that one thing just for me also at the same time, once you've had the awakening,
00:41:37it's your duty to await the other. But at that said, at the same time, it's very hard to wake
00:41:47somebody who's pretending to be asleep, because most of them know how offensive they are. Most of them know
00:41:54whether I'm talking about straight people or white people say no.
00:41:57The way they're ignorant to pride. And it's like, oh, is it? Is that so? Okay.
00:42:10Okay. Is that what we do it all today? Okay, let's go.
00:42:16Okay. But also, I look, I'm also, I mean, different when it comes to using terms I can learn,
00:42:25because I feel like it's almost kind of impossible for me to not recognize and say that this is what
00:42:33my experience has been. I feel like if we want to make some kind of deliberate change,
00:42:37we have to be aggressive enough and make sure that when you get into a space, you're like,
00:42:43okay, I'm not going to teach you, but this is how it is now. You're going to have to live with it. And
00:42:49you have to learn new ways of being apologetically, because sometimes people just don't learn,
00:42:58and they never going to learn. That's how we have to navigate spaces anyway, because they call us
00:43:06aggressive and angry and whatever, but they created that. Like, what am I going to do if I enter the
00:43:12space? I'm not recognized. My voice don't matter. I'm not seen. I'm not heard. I'm going to be
00:43:16aggressive and put my point forward. So we have to live like that anyway, as we speak for them to
00:43:22understand. Yeah. They call us passionate when they're trying to be nice.
00:43:26I love it. Well, I have another question, and then I'm going to throw it to the audience to
00:43:31get into the conversation. Where can folks keep up with your work, all the amazing things you're
00:43:37doing? Hunter, let's start with you. Y'all can find me on Twitter, Instagram, at
00:43:45HuntyTheLion, H-U-N-T-Y-T-H-E-L-I-O-N. Or my site, Hunter Ashley, which is H-U-N-T-E-R-A-S-H-L-I-O-N.
00:43:56L-E-I-G-H.com. But aside from that, because I'm low-key on a hiatus, you can find me on Medium.
00:44:02I'll be right in. You can just Google my name. And yeah, DM me on Let's Be Friends or whatever,
00:44:08which also takes a lot of attention. So maybe let's not be friends, but let's be comrades in the
00:44:12work. And yes, that's where you can find my additional work. Beautiful.
00:44:19David, where can folks keep up with your work? I love that. Let's be intentional. You can find me
00:44:26across most platforms at Mr. David Johns, M-R-D-A-V-I-D-J-O-H-N-S. And you can follow the work
00:44:33of the National Black Justice Coalition by visiting our website, NBJC, nationalblackjusticecoalition.org,
00:44:40or following us across platforms at NBJC on the move. Beautiful. So Kazani, where can folks keep up with
00:44:46all the amazing work you're doing? Well, like I said, I work for the Tetelot Foundation,
00:44:55which is an applied drama and theater organization. We use theater and drama, all kinds of
00:45:00art, mediums of art, to express ourselves, to fight all the injustices that are there. So on social media,
00:45:09it's at Zanindaba, everywhere else. And then we also have a Tetelot Foundation website that
00:45:16you can find us at www.deserotfoundation.org.za. And yeah, I'm a human rights activist. So,
00:45:23like David said, you find us in all platforms and we keep fighting and trying to change the narrative
00:45:29and keeping it black as we can and be happy. Tommy, where can folks keep up with all your work?
00:45:37When you're being passionate.
00:45:42Well, I mean, I'm available on all platforms, social media platforms at Tummy Dish. That's
00:45:48Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. But also people can visit the site, the website www.tummydish.com.
00:45:56And yeah, that's what we do. And we, I mean, in South Africa, I'm all about like creating platforms
00:46:01for us to be able to engage and to meet and to connect and become part of, you know, some kind
00:46:07of cultural change and moving with our struggles forward. So yeah, please, yeah, reach out and feel
00:46:14free to moonwalk into my DMs. Yo, David.
00:46:17Beautiful. So I want to open it up to audience.
00:46:22Uh-uh, Bridgette. Uh-uh. No, don't do that. Yeah. You up here being the hostess with the
00:46:25mostest. Tell people how to find and follow your hostess.
00:46:27Oh, first somebody's asked me. Well, please keep in touch with me. I am available on social media,
00:46:33on Twitter at Bridgette Marie and on Instagram at Bridgette Marie in DC. Please follow me.
00:46:39Lots of pictures of dogs.
00:46:41So, um, so what, I want to know what questions folks have, uh, for our awesome panel. You can
00:46:49turn on your camera and unmute yourself and verbally ask them. It's been a little spotty,
00:46:56so we'll see if it works, but don't be shy. Just unmute your camera and ask your question.
00:47:08Well, while we're getting that sorted and while folks are coming up with their questions, I have
00:47:16one last question for the panel. How do we make sure that all of this work is rooted in our global
00:47:23Blackness? It can be difficult, I think, to break out of our silos of where we live. How can we make
00:47:28sure that we're talking about these issues and digging into these issues from a truly global perspective?
00:47:34While we're having this conversation, that's the start.
00:47:40Yeah. And I, I'm committed to following up with all of you after to find ways that we can all
00:47:44work better together. I think that that's the way that we advance it after we start.
00:47:47Collaborations are the key. I mean, they, they, if we must win anywhere else in the world, I think
00:47:53collaboration is a key thing that we must do. And we've seen it work across many spaces. And I think
00:48:00that we must encourage our Black people to start holding each other's hands and, and collaborating.
00:48:05So yeah, I'm, I too, and I'm there. I mean, the pandemic has pushed us to that point where we
00:48:11literally can't speak about, if you look at what's happening in Nigeria, or if you look at what's
00:48:16happening in the US, if you look at what's happening, you can't speak about us like an isolation.
00:48:21It's not like a South African thing. It's a global thing. And I think Black people now are like,
00:48:25here. They, we're, we're making an effort, a deliberate effort to stay together. And so,
00:48:31yeah, we've got to find ways to, to grow.
00:48:33It looks like we have a question from Kay.
00:48:36Kay, do you want to unmute yourself and ask your question?
00:48:41Yeah. Can you hear me?
00:48:43Yes.
00:48:44Okay. David talked about the suicide rates of Black children going up. And I was wondering how
00:48:52us as a community can come together, like just outside of simply love and support can come
00:48:57together to help combat this and lower the rates.
00:49:02Yeah. The first answer is love and support. What we know is that young people who have
00:49:06attachments to adults who value them, affirm them and love on them, don't experience the kind of
00:49:11isolation, depression, and hopelessness that lead to suicidality and attempts or completions of
00:49:18suicide. And so the first is to acknowledge them as human and to support them with love.
00:49:22The second thing we can do is understand that we have an obligation to model healthy behavior.
00:49:28To Tommy's point about how the pandemic has affected us, the lack of intentionality with
00:49:34addressing our mental health, the toxic stress that we've inherited, the stress associated with
00:49:39anti-Blackness and exposure to poverty or state sanctioned violence that shows up in so many forms
00:49:46often affects us as adults in ways that we don't realize we're modeling for young people.
00:49:50And so in the same way that if you get a trainer when you're trying to get your body right,
00:49:54or you get a financial advisor when you're trying to secure these bags and level up,
00:49:58we all should have a team of people that ensure that we are well holistically, including a therapist,
00:50:04a coach, and a whole lot of friends. The last thing is I am incredibly concerned about our babies
00:50:09who literally do not have the ability to be in community with their friends and people that they
00:50:14love. This concerns me as we think about going into the holiday, a time where people would
00:50:18otherwise be gathering to draw strength from people who they know and they love. And so finding ways to
00:50:24fill the digital gap, the digital divide. There's a laptop shortage throughout the United States.
00:50:29There are students who are literally not able to learn because they can't access virtual learning
00:50:34opportunities. And so finding ways to fill these gaps, to think about ways to use your time,
00:50:39talent, and treasure to show up in the lives of young people is the last thing. So I would encourage
00:50:44everybody who can, those of us who are privileged enough to be in spaces like this, to adopt a student,
00:50:49if you can adopt a classroom, and if you can adopt a whole grade, and if you can adopt a whole school,
00:50:55and find ways to address the specific needs of the people that you can meet in those spaces.
00:50:59Thank you for that question, Kay.
00:51:00Yeah, that was a great question. Do we have other questions? Again, you can just turn on your camera
00:51:07and unmute yourself and ask your question.
00:51:10I also, I echo David's sentiments because I think when we started the foundation,
00:51:17the Chamber of Commerce Foundation, I was very deliberate also about being able to adopt certain
00:51:21groups of queer people and who are Black because of my experience and having been exposed to how,
00:51:28you know, that access isn't there so much for Black queer people, even from the family, you know.
00:51:35So it was very deliberate. I grew up in a space where I was multiracial and I had white people,
00:51:42and even though they did not understand their children's sexuality, the one thing that they
00:51:48were clear on was that this child needed to be educated and that this child needed to be equipped
00:51:54with enough so that they're able to exist in society and to survive and to live in this world.
00:51:59So we must also be intentional and very deliberate. Let's go and find those that we want to develop.
00:52:06And I, for one, I'm always about like going first, I'm going after Black folks and Black queer people.
00:52:14And I'm making sure that without it, without it sounding wrong, it may sound wrong, but a lot of us
00:52:21will be quick to, you know, throw us within the creative industry because it's the only industry
00:52:27that doesn't seem to be concerned with issues around sexuality. But, you know, where I come from,
00:52:32there are lots of, you know, qualified, skilled and very smart queer people who want to get into
00:52:39different fields who want to diversify. And there are engineers, there are doctors, there are
00:52:43partners, there are lots of things. Let's go after those people and let's make sure that they feel
00:52:49like they know and they know that there's a future that looks bright for them and they can be part of
00:52:54this change.
00:52:56Yes. And Bridget, just to say something, you know, I've been sitting with something as we talk and this
00:53:02topic going, you know, I'm just thinking as we try and decolonize and deconstruct our minds from all
00:53:09these constructs and identities that we've carried all our lives and whatever, how do we then also
00:53:17not shy away and acknowledge and recognize the harm and the pain that they have caused to most of us?
00:53:27For example, going back into culture and religion, first thing, just portraying God as me needs to stop.
00:53:32You know, those are all the deconstructions we need to look at and decolonize all the things,
00:53:42all the in the mind, you know, how do you get there, but also how do we not stop acknowledging that
00:53:48these identities and these old things have harmed us and hurt us so much as we move forward to try to
00:53:53unpack and say, you know, actually,
00:53:55away with gender, away with this, away with this, away with class, but also from religion, from
00:54:03culture, from everything. We have to be honest and continue having this conversation and start.
00:54:09When you say gender doesn't exist, why are we genderizing God?
00:54:12Absolutely. Hunter, I see you nodding.
00:54:23Yes. Just want to affirm all of what has been shared. Yes. And yeah, I just, I think,
00:54:32I think, you know, like honesty too. Like, I think a lot of us don't have the tools. Like, I think,
00:54:38I feel like I'm not like in this pessimistic way, but just in like a really honest way that I think
00:54:44that even as a child and like navigating like mental health, like, I just know that like there
00:54:49really weren't people I could turn to, but I also know like even growing up and reflecting with all
00:54:54of the relationships that I had as a child with my family and members, even with people who I was
00:54:58friends with as children, there really wasn't an opportunity for any of us to really, to get free
00:55:04together, even if that door had been open. It actually possibly, and that's not to say that
00:55:08it shouldn't have been, but it's to say too, that it's like, I'm, I'm really grateful that like,
00:55:14that every, that sometimes people do have the opportunity to, to sometimes get the support
00:55:18that they need later, or that sometimes things shift for folks. And often too, like, I just reflect
00:55:23on like some of our relationships and like, and how sometimes like it's, it can, it's just a really,
00:55:28it's a hard struggle because sometimes even having open conversations can lead you
00:55:33to places with other people who aren't ready for that. And I just, again, it just brings me back
00:55:38to just really hoping that there's more love and support in the world for the nuances of those
00:55:43things. Again, because I think that mental health is a really hard thing when you're in a room full
00:55:48of black people and you're young and you just don't have the access and also to everybody around
00:55:53you is struggling. And so again, it just brings me back to love and support. So just love,
00:55:57like back to the piece around the culture shifts that can again, help support the space that needs
00:56:03to exist to just honor, like navigating those feelings. Even if you can't hold them, like if
00:56:09you know a young person or if you know someone in your life, because we know that all of us are
00:56:13navigating detrimental mental health and anti-blackness, there's no way that none of us are not
00:56:18suffering from that as black people. Like there's just literally no way. But like just, just wanting to
00:56:23hold everybody more gently for even, for even the things that we, we can't, we don't know how to
00:56:29hold. So yeah. Beautiful. We have a question from Shirley. Shirley, you can unmute your microphone and ask
00:56:36her question. Good morning to everyone. Praise God for another day. I just wanted to say with the children
00:56:44in school, um, with this virtual learning that they're doing right now, if they have a segment
00:56:51for the parents and the children, when we talk about suicide, the rate has went up mentally and
00:56:57everything, mental health where children need mental health, someone to talk to. And I like to see the
00:57:03churches step up to the plate. Like maybe, um, I know we're in a pandemic, but if they can have a program,
00:57:11like if somebody really needed to reach out in your neighborhood, there could be a number that they
00:57:16could call to talk to or give out the information from our health centers. This is the number to call
00:57:22if you're having a problem, um, with our children. Sometimes they, they don't know where to turn to.
00:57:27Sometimes the parents don't even know where to turn to, truth be told. But we can just get more
00:57:32information out there for them to know that somebody do care that they have a place, um,
00:57:40a safe haven, a place to go, or someone to speak to. That's what I want to see, even with this virtual
00:57:45learning. Um, like I said, sometimes the parents don't even know where to turn to. They're going
00:57:50through. And when they go through, the children see that they going through, then they get upset
00:57:55in their own way also. So love you all. I'm just looking for a better way. God going to bring us out.
00:58:00I'm 20, I'm looking for 2021 to be a better year. And as I say to all my people, which I love all my
00:58:07people, don't give up, keep the faith and, um, the battle will be over sooner, sooner than later.
00:58:14You better come through with the word on Sunday. Good sis. Let me highlight three resources, uh,
00:58:19directed to your question. One is a national suicide prevention hotline. That number is
00:58:241-800-273-8255. 1-800-273-8255. National suicide prevention hotline that will apply in the US.
00:58:36The second thing is the Trevor Project. They're a peer organization and a partner organization.
00:58:41They have a text line, a website chat line, and a hotline that you can find trevor.org. So that's
00:58:48the Trevor Project. They also do a whole lot of work in this space. The thing that we have to be
00:58:51mindful of is that, um, a lot of the existing resources around mental health are designed
00:58:57for white people. We still have to get through the stigma associated with mental health. There's
00:59:02a whole role for the church to play, especially given the fact that religious trauma is a thing.
00:59:07It's a technical thing within the DSM, the diagnostic manual tool that psychologists
00:59:11and psychotherapists use to talk about and name our trauma. And so as an organization,
00:59:16the National Black Justice Coalition is working with mental health providers,
00:59:20with the Association of Black Psychologists, for example, to increase the number of mental
00:59:25health providers who understand intersectional identity because most mental health providers
00:59:29are trained to deal with one form of trauma. The second thing is for us to increase the number
00:59:34of people who show up in the world like us who are also trained to provide those services. There's a whole
00:59:39lot of work to be done. If there's anybody that's watching that is a mental health provider
00:59:43that's trained in this, would love for you to connect with us so we can plug you into this important work.
00:59:47That was wonderful.
00:59:52I wish Togazani and I could say the same thing because in our case, we almost kind of have to
01:00:01like sensitize people who work with a suicide hotline. We don't have, I think it's something that
01:00:07I will hopefully be able to do together with the queer community in this country is to establish
01:00:14a direct line that deals with all of the traumas of queer people and all of them who are dealing
01:00:21with suicidal ideations. So that for me is something I aspire to. I mean like I could talk about multiple
01:00:29politics but there's so many things that we're learning from just you know being able to be
01:00:34connected on these platforms and and we can find best practices and ways in which it works for all
01:00:41of us. But yeah I'm gonna, it's gonna happen. Yeah let's work on it together. That's what we're gonna
01:00:48work on it. Yeah because I think I also feel like I think for us you there's a bigger, it's a bigger
01:00:54thing like South Africa is quite advanced in terms of its constitution and and how it represents its
01:00:59people but it's a completely different experience for other queer bodies on the rest of the continent
01:01:04and so if we're able to put in that kind of infrastructure and and afford that kind of service
01:01:10to them we would have done it a lot. Well I want to thank all of y'all for the work that you're doing
01:01:16shaping Black futures, the full spectrum of our Black futures. I want to thank you for being on the
01:01:20panel today and I want to thank our audience for being such a great audience and asking such amazing
01:01:24questions and I hope that we can all take what we have heard and learned back to our communities.
01:01:29I can't wait to spend more time with you this weekend. Thanks so much for being here and thank you to our
01:01:34amazing panel.
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